Sorry had all the hope and change I could take for the last 3 1/2 years.

"I hope your mention of a high income earner paying a low effective tax rate, like Romney and Kohl, signals a change in your thinking and your support now for increasing effective tax rates on high income earners."

If you read more slowly you may come to understand it was a statement of hope and not a claim to understand your thinking; something I doubt even you can do.

Still making claims to know others thoughts? Identifying your hypocritical comments on taxes in no way identifies any position of mine. But that hasn't kept the deflection circus train at the stationtime before, I suspect it won't again.

If by sideshow act you're referring to me, you only need to look at my history of comments to see the many times I have advocated increasing the effective tax rates on high income earners. Almost every one of those comments have been met with your objections. In case you failed to notice, my most recent comments included two Democrats and two Republicans. I hope your mention of a high income earner paying a low effective tax rate, like Romney and Kohl, signals a change in your thinking and your support now for increasing effective tax rates on high income earners. That's change we can believe in!

Curious how the sideshow act that pretends all of a sudden to be concerned about how much politicians pay in taxes has been silent for the last 2 decades. Just a small sampling of the hypocrisy using the sideshow's own math;

Herb Kohl paid a total tax of $741,477 (2006). This tax is:
6.23% of adjusted gross income of $11.79 million

Oh no, don't look at herb....

Barack Obama paid a total tax of $453,770 (line 60). This tax is:

25.3% of total income (line 22) of $1,795,614

26.3% of adjusted gross income (line 37) of $1,728,096

33.9% of taxable income (line 43) of $1,340,207

Mitt Romney paid a total tax of $3,009,766 (line 60). This tax is:

13.9% of total income (line 22) of $21,661,344

13.9% of adjusted gross income (line 37) of $21,646,507

17.6% of taxable income (line 43) of $17,120,067

Joe Biden paid a total tax of $86,626 (line 60). This tax is:

23.4% of total income (line 22) of $370,178

23.4% of adjusted gross income (line 37) of $379,178

28.4% of taxable income (line 43) of $304,840

Paul Ryan paid a total tax of $37,457 (line 60). This tax is:

17.4% of total income (line 22) of $215,417

17.4% of adjusted gross income (line 37) of $215,417

21.9% of taxable income (line 43) of $170,772

Barack Obama 2010 tax return [ http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/presreturn... ]

Mitt Romney 2010 tax return [ http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/presreturn... ]

Joe Biden 2010 tax return [ http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/presreturn... ]

Paul Ryan 2010 tax return [ http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/... ]

Yes, please do quote me.

"You forgot to include my frequent citations to FOX News! Wonder why?"
-
How silly. The fringe left has already claimed that evil site is biased. Do you really want me to repeat your kinds words for you?

"The same poster that made this wild claim, "Just Facts, the neocon site that is more biased than..." has provided links by the following lowly and biased locations:"

You forgot to include my frequent citations to FOX News! Wonder why?

The hypocrisy from the fringe over listed links is seriously hysterical. The same poster that made this wild claim, "Just Facts, the neocon site that is more biased than..." has provided links by the following lowly and biased locations:

- salon
- zfacts run by a berkley prof with a history of dem only campaign donations http://www.campaignmoney.com/political/c...
- talking points memo
- new yorker
- the atlantic
- and many other left wing sources a wacky links to youtube posted by other lefty fringers.

Then again, expecting anything different is just a waste of time from the deflectors...

"Ryan paid a higher income tax rate than Romney, returns show" [ http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/201... ]

Haha, Just Facts! That must have taken some Googling. Just Facts, the neocon site that is more biased than MacIver Institute, Heritage Foundation, Freedom Watch and Cato Institute put together! Their "research" is incredibly more dishonest, and far less humorous, than the following YouTube video. [ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQx3qWL43... ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9kOP8ORA...

http://www.justfactsdaily.com/factcheck-...

davemartino-I appreciated your comments here. It was nice to hear from a voice of reason in the midst of so many angry people pointing fingers and talking past one another. You give me hope for our country's future, and if you ever run for office you would have my vote!

Or both.

Anyone who defends the Bush tax cuts after reading about what actually happens must be extremely wealthy or just plain dumb.

Taxes are a smoke screen, I want discussion on Solyndra, the botched ATF mission, no budget, soaring debt clock figures. etc. Obum, come clean.

Romney made 12 times as much as Obama and paid only 7 times as much in taxes. Did Obama not also pay "more" (a higher percentage of income) than Romney as the other poster had claimed they had paid? I'm still looking forward to anyone who is able to illustrate how they can substantially alter (equalize) the Obama/Romney tax rates given their 2010 returns.

Funny how the left fringe ignore the real tax code when playing their perception of number games. Seeing that can't tell they difference between tax rates when it applies to real things like income, gains, investments, losses, and tricky things like legal obligations.

While at the same time ignoring the problems of the current failed policies of the current administration, high unemployment, record high govt support to citizens, debt above national GDP, deficits at record levels, no national budget, a new unaffordable entitlement program, decreasing rates of people in the job pool, overly high U6 for his whole term, failed stimulus....and the rest of a very long list.

Poo back to your tricks. The remark you quoted was posted to a person that claimed "they" paid more. Your retort with obama's returns is just another distraction by you. Your pathetic games are the same retreads of distraction and rhetoric.

A poster previously said, "Claiming your percentage is higher than theirs is neat if you look at tables. But if you use facts, as most logic requires, you would then figure your TRUE percentage from net income from amount of federal tax paid only; excluding SS medicare medicaid and state. Since that is the number being punted around by the left wing hacks."

How about someone, perhaps the poster making the above claim, illustrates by application of the above claim to the 2010 Romney and Obama tax returns I have previously cited (and cited below) so we can see the merits of the claim and if it substantially changes the fact that on 12 times as much income as Obama, Romney paid about 1/2 the percentage of taxes that Obama did? I'm curious to see how you can creatively account to a point where Romney pays the same percentage of taxes as Obama. Have at it!

Barack Obama paid a total tax of $453,770 (line 60). This tax is:

25.3% of total income (line 22) of $1,795,614

26.3% of adjusted gross income (line 37) of $1,728,096

33.9% of taxable income (line 43) of $1,340,207

Mitt Romney paid a total tax of $3,009,766 (line 60). This tax is:

13.9% of total income (line 22) of $21,661,344

13.9% of adjusted gross income (line 37) of $21,646,507

17.6% of taxable income (line 43) of $17,120,067

Barack Obama 2010 tax return [ http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/presreturn... ]

Mitt Romney 2010 tax return [ http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/presreturn... ]

That is unless we are discussing U6, than your rhetoric is all that's required.

Awaiting your analysis, not your rhetoric.

An "accounting gimmick" is the claim used by the deflectors who ignore that monies are taxed at different rates according to the legal, and overly complex, tax code of our nation. Ignoring this is just another in the very long list of trying to deflect away from the failed policies of this failed administration.

Funny how the same deflectors ignore the tax returns of wealthy democrat politicians....shhhh that doesn't fit into the distraction.

I have a very simple solution to the doubters that are trying to use every accounting gimmick possible to distract from the fact that Mitt Romney is paying a lower tax rate than those making substantially less than him.

There are two tax returns available for these people to use to apply their own gimmicks and prove to us that their theories actually have any merit. Those returns belong to Barack Obama and Mitt Romney and are from 2010. That's the only year for which we have final tax returns from both parties. I will take a first stab at this.

Barack Obama paid a total tax of $453,770 (line 60). This tax is:

25.3% of total income (line 22) of $1,795,614

26.3% of adjusted gross income (line 37) of $1,728,096

33.9% of taxable income (line 43) of $1,340,207

Mitt Romney paid a total tax of $3,009,766 (line 60). This tax is:

13.9% of total income (line 22) of $21,661,344

13.9% of adjusted gross income (line 37) of $21,646,507

17.6% of taxable income (line 43) of $17,120,067

Romney's total income is more than 12 times greater than Obama's and yet any way you computer taxes as a percentage of income (total, adjusted gross or taxable) Romney is paying a percentage of taxes that is almost 1/2 of the percentage of taxes paid by Obama. Your turn, here's the returns.

Barack Obama 2010 tax return [ http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/presreturn... ]

Mitt Romney 2010 tax return [ http://www.taxhistory.org/thp/presreturn... ]

Ryan paid around $ 25000 and I paid slightly less. I have also worked almost 30 years longer than he and spent and invested my money wisely. My only recourse, to save tax dollars right now, would be to go out and buy a great big expensive house that I don't want and don't feel I can afford.

"If you think people who make more money than you do don't pay enough in income taxes, change the law. Don't criticize them for being smart enough to take advantage of the tax deductions they are eligible for! Life is about choices. If you chose a profession or job that doesnt pay real well, that's your choice. Some people chose professions and jobs that required more education/training/ harder work, etc and made more money. That's the way the world works."

Donna, sounds almost like you are talking about teachers and other public employees here who I've read over and over, "Why should they make more than I do?" "I pay their salary" We all pay Paul Ryan's salary, why aren't people asking why he makes more than they do?

"etc. should be giving more to charity and not to elections."
-
Nothing more funny than people deciding how others should spend their own money.

Funny how the fringe is so unaware how real taxes are computed. A simple look at the 1040 tax tables explains how the "percentages" work in the real world.

Those with a taxable income of 75,000 are required to pay on net;
Married $9,756 = 13%

But, that rate is only for income. Investments and other monies are all taxed at differing rates.

The idea that other tax payers are complaining over people paying legal tax rates is just funny.

Willard Mitt Romney, explain to the American people how you ended up with an IRA that is at least 1,000 times larger than the prescribed limits on contributions for a person your age. Did you illegally and/or grossly under-value your contributions to postpone and/or evade taxation on them? Also show us your, and your wife's, FBAR forms that document your foreign bank account holdings.

Donnaw - I didn't say Ryan should give more to charit, I said Romney. However, I agree with you. Ryan, Biden, Romney, Obama, Koch Brothers, Adlesn, etc. should be giving more to charity and not to elections.

Job creators, my ass.

Anal.....ok--now that we have the percentages, what was the actual dollar amount that Ryan paid??

oldbadger...you think Ryan should give more to charity? Check Bidens record on charitable giving. 1998 or thereabouts gave $369 to charity on an income of $200,000 but as the next few years went by he saw the light and when started being considered for VP all of a sudden he became generous and, knowing his taxes would be scrutinized, upped his giving to about $1000.

Ryan paid about the same percentage as someone making $8,700.00 dollars. Apparently the lower income people don't know about loopholes.

0+ $0+ $0+ 10%
$8,700+ $17,400+ $12,400+ 15%
$35,350+ $70,700+ $47,350+ 25%
$85,650+ $142,700+ $122,300+ 28%
$178,650+ $217,450+ $198,050+ 33%
$388,350+ $388,350+ $388,350+

whythink, funny thing is MSNBC was asking the same questions about Obama not answering any questions for the media.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjGXKD91G...

donnaw- Funny but I never said I paid LESS than he did- I said I paid more of a percentage. Growing up with money or marrying into it does not entitle you too pay less than those who weren't so monetarily lucky. Most working people who have an above average income but not quite the holdings he has pay far more of a percentage. Again, convince me as to why this is right.

anal......."@916- Please don't change the subject to government spending. We are talking aabout my tax rate vs Ryan's tax rate. I asked you to convince me as to why I should pay more. I'm not talking about his or my spending."
In what way did I attempt to change the subject? Regardless, we are talking about the means with which government directly funds it's spending--I would say that is definitely part of the "subject". I could care less about convincing you why you should pay "more". The "more" part is what interests me. More in terms of a tax rate as opposed to more in terms of dollar amounts?? Let's look at both considering they are definitely connected and part of the subject. I simply asked a question to gain a clearer picture of the situation we're discussing. You would have to admit that percentages with no other information attached to them lack context. I don't know why you are getting so defensive when asked for information......please provide it when you get a chance and we'll continue the discussion. Thx!

I never saw a party or group of people so concerned about what other people do with their money.

I'm concerned about what Obama is doing with my money.

old_badger
Aug 17, 2012 at 3:04 p.m.I agree it is a national problem caused by the radical Tea Party!

You say this why? Does the Tea Party create job killing regulations? Ban all our ability to obtain our own natural resources? Spend us into 16 Trillion in debt? Force a Tax on all Americans to purchase healthcare? Raid 716 Billion dollars from our Seniors? Give Billions more in Tax dollars to bankrupt solar companies?

How Exactly is it the Tea Party's fault?

Yeah, take your word for it. But he did list the requirement by law, for tax returns. Yet you still "claim" you paid more....

Donnaw- I agree completely!

RAF - You can take my word for it that I pay more taxes, by percentage. We take Romey's word that he never paid less than13%.
.
Also, I know how to calculate my net taxes. I only count federal not SS, state, property, sales, etc. Romney wants to count his charitable giving in his tax rate to get him to 20%. What a joke!
.
He should be giving more to charity. Even Dave Ramsey, republican financial guru, says once you are out of debt and have your 4 walls protected, and have at least 15% going into savings, you should start giving more than 10%.

If you think people who make more money than you do don't pay enough in income taxes, change the law. Don't criticize them for being smart enough to take advantage of the tax deductions they are eligible for! Life is about choices. If you chose a profession or job that doesnt pay real well, that's your choice. Some people chose professions and jobs that required more education/training/ harder work, etc and made more money. That's the way the world works.

Wislady - I can't think of anything to say to you because you are crazy and you don't understand 1st grade math. REVENUE - SPENDING = ZERO At least in my home. I can only cut so much spending before I lose my home and can't eat. Then I must look for more income. You must live in a box with your guns. That is the way the Tea Party republicans would have our country. They want to cut all and have the largest military and keep the money for the rich who aren't creating jobs.
.
Can any one answer why we should give the job creators more tax cuts when they haven't created any jobs? Look at the job numbers. Yet they can continue to spend more and more money on elections.

"We are talking aabout my tax rate vs Ryan's tax rate. I asked you to convince me as to why I should pay more."
-
Still waiting for proof you do...

old_badger

I can see you are floating in the clouds with Obama, in that world of make believe. By Monday, when you get your new talking points, I hope you have some new ones.

@916- Please don't change the subject to government spending. We are talking aabout my tax rate vs Ryan's tax rate. I asked you to convince me as to why I should pay more. I'm not talking about his or my spending.

Bealab...Yes, now we have those sneaky, partisan folks at the US Bureau of Labor Statistics in Walker's back pocket! How dare they poll 90% more of the businesses that operate in our state than the DWD to give the state's citizens a more comprehensive picture of what's going on with our economy. This calls for a boycott of all federal government agencies--time to make another run up to Madison with some fancy signs......no?:)

Analert......"Far from a relevant question" and "It really shoudn't matter WHAT he paid"?? Are you serious?? The government does not spend percentages it spends money, so for you to say that actual dollar amounts sent to the government are not relevant is both crazy and comical at the same time. I can just imagine the looks I would get going into any type of meeting or negotiation and saying only "well it will cost us 10%".......If that's all the information I was willing to give, I wouldn't have a job for very long:) Maybe in your world it's wrong to want all of the information to form a clearer picture regarding a situation, but humor the rest of us that want much more information by providing the actual dollar amounts being discussed here......

Poohbah......The answer to your first question is no. The answer to your 3rd question is "actual dollar amounts sent to the government give an additional perspective to the discussion"........no?
Speaking of percentages, still feeling a little lazy--waiting for those unemployment numbers--I really want to know if Obama held true to his claim that spending a trillion dollars would keep unemployment under 8%.......Thx!

whythink is that the best you can do, claim an accurate statement was also made somewhere else so you don't like it. Pathetic.

" while Romney and Ryan's taxes may be less then mine by percentage (which is the only way logically to look at it)"
-
If you are going to use logic that would mean you would also need to use facts. Claiming your percentage is higher than theirs is neat if you look at tables. But if you use facts, as most logic requires, you would then figure your TRUE percentage from net income from amount of federal tax paid only; excluding SS medicare medicaid and state. Since that is the number being punted around by the left wing hacks.

If you can HONESTLY then say you paid a higher percent, I suspect either you need professional tax preparation help or a math class.

We all know that Walker will come up with his own formula for calculating unemployment and that it will be completely different from these findings. He's done it before, and he'll do it again.

916WI - while Romney and Ryan's taxes may be less then mine by percentage (which is the only way logically to look at it), I don' think they need more tax breaks. They aren't doing anything with their money other than spending on political ads. They sure aren't creating jobs. I know Ryan has never created a job and he is in the job creator category.

@916- Very far from a relevant question that you ask. Please convince me as to why I should pay more of a percentage of my taxes. It really shoudn't matter WHAT he paid- what matters is his percentage. of course. I'm fairly certain that he also used the deductions afforded to him by the IRS codes such as
" gifts to children", charitable contributions, IRA or other tax deferred contributions,. I wish I could afford to " gift my children" , and defer my taxes but I have bills to pay. Please, again, explain why I pay more.

Wislady - There is nothing wrong with spending only what you have and having a budget. The Republicans only want to cut spending. Just like my home budget, I look at spending AND income. The government needs to look at revenue (taxes) and spending. I hope you understand this complicated equation.
.
Our fiscally conservative friends (Ryan included) voted for... Unfunded wars, Medicare part D and taxes cuts. ALL UNFUNDED. That my friend is not fiscally conservative and not in line with the Tea Party ideals. While Obama may not be great, he at least put together the FUNDED Afforadable Care Act. It is funded with savings in medicare not cuts to Medicare. He wants to increase revenue to help reduce the deficit. Also, the ACA according to the CBO says that will reduce the deficit some. This seems to be more what a Tea Party / fiscally conservative person would want. Yes he does have some other flaws like following Bush's lead in shipping jobs over seas.
.
From the sounds of things, Wislady, Obama is your man!

916WI, do you believe everyone should pay the same dollar amount in income taxes regardless of their income? Say, $12,500 per year in federal income tax regardless if you make $12,500 per year or $12,500,000 per year? If not, then why ask analertcitizen the question you did?

Analert....just out of curiosity, rather than blast him on percentages, what was the actual dollar amount of his tax burden versus your tax burden?

Ryan released his last year's tax return today. He paid a little ove 15% of his income in taxes and I paid over 25% and made far less as a retired person.( By the way, I also give to charity). Please people, talk me into why this is right.

DWD Submits Actual Jobs Data for First Quarter of 2012

http://thewheelerreport.com/releases/Aug...

wislady- please explain why the wealthy ahould enjoy tax breaks the middle class does not receive.

old_badger

What is "radical" about wanting a budget and spending only the money you have?

And if people have accumulated wealth, it is not YOURS to take.

Joy, Madison's economy never really revolved around tourism. Madison is based more on the University and Government being there. I don't think that the protests will have a long term negative effect on the city.

concernedwi, I can't argue your point because I wasn't there. But, I will leave you with this: My husband and I used to go to Brewers games a few times...until the strike of 1992. We haven't been to one since - not in 20 years. We found other ways to spend our leisure time and dollars (including the easy and less expensive outing to the Snappers) which have become our new routine. My point is, once driven away, harder to draw back.

Before it was a Milwaukee problem. Then it was Doyle problem. Now it is a national problem.
.
I agree it is a national problem caused by the radical Tea Party!
.
The job creators don't need more tax breaks when they are paying a smaller percentage than what I pay. They obviously are already sitting on TONS of money. Look how much is being spent by both sides for the elections (state and national). This money that we middle income people are giving them isn't being used to create jobs, it is being used to create more wealth for the wealthy.
.

Unemployment rates rose in 44 U.S. states in July

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012...

This isn't just a Wisconsin problem, it's a national problem that starts with Barak Obama!

RAF, REALLY!?!?!
"""Why hasnt the president had a press confrence or taken questions from the white house pool reporters for months? Oh never mind tax returns and bush....deflect deflect deflect."""
.
I happened to turn on Fox News this morning just to see their latest spin on reality and GUESS WHAT... They asked the EXACT same question right around 10a.
.
RAF, Fox News, come on leave the Fox News citations to wislady... she has nothing else you, I believe, are smarter than that.

I know why Wisconsin isn't gaining jobs even though the recall is over and Walker said there would be jobs everywhere. It is because um, um... ObamaCare or was it the full moon. No, No it was the drought, gas prices, taxes, climate change (not that we don't believe in that). Maybe because companies aren't comfortable and unsure about the election. Or is it abortion, or voter ID. May be it is just liberals in general that is causing Wisconsin to lose jobs.
.
I am sure it has nothing to do with simple economics. People don't have money to spend so why would a company hire people. I have the solution. Reduce taxes on the job creators because they don't have enough money to spend on elections, I mean hiring.

I quoted the exact words of one of your neocon colleagues, donnaw. I guess that's what made me appear to be so good at diversionary tactics.

Come on, 916WI, I've showered you with citations to the numbers you so desire. All you have to do is click the links while keeping your eyes and mind open.

Poohbah...Yes, I am too lazy and it seems that you have already done the research. No need to duplicate efforts--please provide the figures........

poo is really good at diversionary tactics when he doesn't like the questions and answers. At least he is good at something!

916WI asked, "What are the figures?"

I'll quote RetiredAirForce in response to your request, 916WI, "Of course, progliberals complaining about provided U3 numbers under Obama are too lazy to look up U3 numbers from bush's term for themself (habit of these folks, want things handed to them)."

Are you a progliberal, whatever that is? Do you have a habit of wanting things handed to you? I see that squirrel again!

Poohbah........While your tips and experiences concerning window licking will no doubt fascinate some of the libs reading this thread, you never answered my question regarding Obama's claim that unemployment wouldn't rise above 8% when we were asked to go along with the massive borrowing/spending. What are the figures? Did he stay true to his claim?

Recycled comments. Tune in next month for repeat.

"Congratulations Democrats. You killed the mining bill"

I believe the neccessary swing vote for that came from a.....(wait for it).......republican.

Politicians get: free pensions, free healthcare, great pay, and other privileges....Almost NONE of them care, people, get that through....

Come on, 916WI, you should know it's only fun to lick windows in the wintertime when they're really cold.

I don't know Poobah where are Obama's unemployment rates at? Did he stay true to his administration's claim that with the stimulus, that they would not rise above 8%........After all, if we're going to beat walker up over the 250,000 jobs claim, wouldn't it be fair to hold Obama to his claims as well??

The answer to Wisconsin and the nations problem is to hand Obama his pink slip.

good for you gary! Just look out the window though, don't lick it.....your mommy has enough to do without having to add cleaning windows to her list........

"It's not the 2 million jobs lost during the Bush years that has hurt so many, it's the fact that 9 million new jobs were needed just to keep up with the growth of the workforce." [ http://zfacts.com/node/338 ]

Obama inherited a net job debt of 11 million jobs from Bush II. Unemployment rates under Bush II and Obama, anyone? [ http://zfacts.com/node/339 ]

I see the squirrel.

Why hasnt the president had a press confrence or taken questions from the white house pool reporters for months? Oh never mind tax returns and bush....deflect deflect deflect.

Still stuck things from the last admin? Funny how everything but the current econmic climate is discussed by the deflector crowd...look squirrel!

[ http://zfacts.com/node/336 ] Take a look at that chart to see the staggering job losses under the last two years of Bush II and see what Obama inherited and how quickly his stimulus bill reversed the losses. By the way, the Y axis is in 1000's of jobs. Yes, that's right, those are quarters with 100's of thousands of jobs lost, quarter after quarter under Bush II.

Onelife, The Democrats wanted to work with the Governor last February. They called for compromise but they were stone walled. They were told it is my way or no way. That is when they decided to having an impromptu filibuster. http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-2003...
From the Gov's mouth himself, "I will not compramise" You can't work with someone who won't let you in the door.

Wislady, you are playing games with words. It was a promise. He lied about it, and he is negative jobs now there is no way he will even get to half of what he promised in the next 2 years.

Joy, speaking as someone who was in Madison for several days of the protests, that was the best stimulus the city could ever have. The few people that stayed away because of them were not matched but the thousands that flooded local businesses with money. If you wanted to eat near the capital you had to walk several blocks away to find a restaurant that you could get a table with a reasonable wait. Along the capital that wasn't going to happen. if you were to go ask all of the bars, restaurants, and gift shops in Madison, I'm sure they would tell you they loved the protests. The only business down there that didn't would probably be M and I Bank for political reasons.

So after 85 comments, do any of these things talked about here help the country find a better solution to our problems? Have you convinced someone from another persepctive to see things your way or have you only made them dig their heels in deeper? Do you make these comments so you can hear praise from people who see things exactly the same way you do? Does finding 14 different ways to try and make the last name Obama sound deragatory make some sort of a point? This is a visious cycle...if this rhetoric is okay with us, the voters, the politicians will just continue to do what they are doing: negative advertisements, more drama and less real results. The campaigns are a reflection of what we, as voters, will tolerate. Why can't people make a respectful argument in favor of their point? Maybe by presenting the facts and a well-thought out position, someone will have a new idea and a discussion of ideas will ensue instead of partisan rhetoric. Is this approach naive and simply unattainable at this point in our country's development? Why have we lost the ability to work together to accomplish common goals which is a foundational principle of democracy and the United States? Give it some thought...are you part of the problem or part of the solution?

Good grief. I go to sleep at night and come back and there's all this! onelife2live, you are right about the Madison demonstrations. It also kept some of us away who might have spent money in Madison - just wanted to stay away from the fray. Then you have the city of Milwaukee effectively driving away businesses who think about starting if the company is not offering the moon for a starting wage for a low or non-skilled job, and the company goes elsewhere. No one is "entitled" to a living wage job if they have no skills to offer. It's not our fault if you don't get your education and try to pull yourself up by your bootstraps, like most of the rest of us have had to do, at least at some point or another in our lives. When will the libs stop shooting themselves and all of us in the feet?

Just remember - "it's working".

GREAT POST, LibertyBelle.....

"Congratulations Democrats. You killed the mining bill and thousands of jobs that came with it. You failed at stopping Walker's re-election with your little political stunt, and you do what you do best. Caused unemployment to raise. Just like the failure of Ohbummer."

Congratulations Democrats. You killed the mining bill and thousands of jobs that came with it. You failed at stopping Walker's re-election with your little political stunt, and you do what you do best. Caused unemployment to raise. Just like the failure of Ohbummer.

joker....only if you want the money. So what do you want the company to do? They have an order from a CUSTOMER. You are an EMPLOYEE! If they say to the CUSTOMER, " Sorry, we can't fill the order by your time frame." So CUSTOMER goes to a competitor who can fill the order as his EMPLOYEES are willing to work the extra hours (and for extra pay and over time). It's your choice, quit and find another job. See how long the company that isn't flexible to meet CUSTOMERS' needs stays in business.

Of course, progliberals complaining about provided U3 numbers under Obama are too lazy to look up U3 numbers from bush's term for themself (habit of these folks, want things handed to them), just easier to complain about something that happened 6 years ago and has no bearing on anything from today...other than more distraction from the terrible job being done under the current administration.

Yep....So let's borrow a couple of trillion more and spend away the unemployment problem......right?? After all, Obama's administration told us that the stimulus would prevent unemployment from ever rising above 8%.......Oops! That didn't work, but maybe if BO took the national debt to a nice even $20 trillion, we could open up a couple of hundred government agencies and get EVERYONE a job.......Problem solved!

OOPS, I need coffee this morning, I had it right the first time. HA, HA.

Sorry, my bad. Should be BENEFIT US in anyway.

Bush II borrowed more than a couple trillion dollars AND the devastating unemployment trend started under his administration.

I really don't know what has to happen or how worse it has to get till people realize giving more tax cuts to the rich will not benefit us in anyway. It did not work in the past, so what makes people think that this time it will work????

GREAT POST,CARLITOSWAY! LET ME REPOST IT SO IT WILL SEEP IN!
JoyM as in Walkers Numbers in his recall ads? Wislady here you go blaming MR. O again Walker is the one in Wisconsin If it were up to you no one that is in a bad way deserves anything. ARE YOU DEAR DIANE HENDRICK's TWIN? You need to be denied comments as nothing you post has any concrete support. Midnight LOL get a clue and face that the wheel that started the job loss was rear wheel Bush on his way out and YOUR GOP blocks anything and everything that would bring this country back. The boss of a Job site cannot get a job done if all the workers sit and plot to destroy the company.....Obama cannot do his Job with the GOP sitting on their high and mightier than thou attitude plotting to take everything from the hard working people and give to the rich SOBs to keep their companies overseas. And to not want to pay a fair wage to those of us that work our butts off to make ends meet.

Yep.....and to think the only thing we had to do to instigate that reversal was to borrow a couple of trillion dollars that we in no way have the means to pay back. We should do that again every year......we'll have this unemployment problem licked in no time!:)

Of course, neocons quoting the U3 numbers under Obama won't give you the devastating U3 numbers under the last two years of Bush II so you can see the trend reversal that has occurred under Obama.

The Obama administration was clear when they told us that if the country would get behind his massive stimulus program, that unemployment figures wouldn't top 8%......as we now know, that was a pipe dream. I find the hypocrisy quite telling. Many of the same people who are blasting walker for his job creation claim, seem to have zero issue with BO making good on his unemployment claim. Not surprising at all though--just more of the "don't do as I do, do as I say" mindset that is so prevelent with many of the liberals on this site.....

......and out comes the race card.......thanks fear--you didn't let me down:)

I was told tonight our company needs to produce 60000 units a week from now until June that would require 2 shifts working 10 hour a day and 4 hours a weekend. Who in their right mind wants to work that much

The BLS data is a great tool to see the real numbers, for federal and regional information. I love how the how the obamaites cling to job numbers while never looking at the data as a whole.

- Discouragement over job prospects: Still higher than when he took office; Jan 09 734,000 Jul 2012 852,000.

-Unemployment Level - New Entrants: Still higher than when he took office; Jan 09 772,000 Jul 2012 1,311,000.

-Employment Level - Part-Time for Economic Reasons, All Industries: Still higher than when he took office; Jan 09 8,056,000 Jul 2012 8,246,000.

-Not in Labor Force, Searched For Work and Available, Discouraged Reasons For Not Currently Looking. Discouragement over job prospects (Persons who believe no job is available.): Still higher than when he took office; Jan 09 734,000 Jul 2012 852,000.

-U6 data, Total unemployed, plus all marginally attached workers plus total employed part time for economic reasons, as a percent of all civilian labor force plus all marginally attached workers: Still higher than when he took office; Jan 09 14.2% Jul 2012 15.0%.

-Number Unemployed for 27 Weeks & over: Still higher than when he took office; Jan 09 2,696,000 Jul 2012 5,185,000.

- Now look at the employment level Jan 09 142,187,000 Jul 2012 142,220,000. That has only increased 33,000. This shows 33 thousand more people are working today than the day he took office. Out of 300 million, that is an increase of roughly .0001% and these folks are hanging there hat on that as success. Laughable.

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?l...

Wow! One month of stats brings out all the Walker haters. I forgot how great Doyle and Sheridan were on creating jobs. As much as some of you are on here, I'm guessing you are either retired or unemployed.

Until our "Fair" trade policies change, jobs will be hard to increase. Service jobs? I think we have axed them out. We need manufacturing jobs. Why do you think businesses won't come to WI? Probably because of all the liberal demonstrations and out right childish behavior by the unions. Those demonstrations in Madison earlier drove a lot of businesses away. So you have only yourselves to blame in a way.

I just can not get over ho Democrats are unwilling to work with our Governor. They'd rather stay in IL for weeks instead of talking. If a Dem had won the recall, many of you would be begging for us to all get long.

Remember...when you point a finger at someone, you have 3 pointing back at you. Clean up your own backyard Dems. Peace

Why_think, why would wislady want to be fair, her sources tell her waht to think. Being fair would mean having to look at the depth of factual evidence and understand that not everything is black and white, and even when black and white evidence is put in front of you you make excuses and repeat talk radio talking points , verbatim.
Paul Ryan said this is the "worst recovery in 70 years", from the presidency that presided over the worst economy in 70 years, AT LEAST there is a recovery.
The more and more I read wisladys posts , the more I think that she and others have a little something more in the way of hatred. Since they repeat everything that Rush and the boys say , I am starting to believe that this is racially motivated. At least in part. Either that of the cookie cutter conservatives are the dumbest brand the party has put out in 100 years. Whatever it is, it needs to stop. Ignorance from these people is just beyond the scope of lunacy anymore.
The worst part is , there are some really smart reasonable conservatives out there , heck on this site. They are drowned out by the talk radio repeating rednecks , that all sing along in unison with Rush, "Barak the magic N***O"

""You can list all the fake numbers you want....reality is fact"" I guess that just depends on your view of reality now doesnt it? Bush got elected blaming Clinton for the declining economy, and he only needed that rhetoric for about 10 months and 10 vacations to Crawford Ranch until 9/11, bam 2 terms for the worst president in history, easily.
You dont think Romney and Ryan arent going to piss and moan about Obama for the entore term when things dont turn out as rosy as they said it would be? OF COURSE THEY WILL< THEY ALL DO, THAT is reality.

""Yes, he made a commitment to set a goal of 250 thousand jobs by the end of his first term.

He did not PROMISE. Is it the end of his first four years?
"" evolving rhetoric and excuses. You chastize Obama for the Jobs lost because of Bush economy, yet blame the losses and situation in Wisconsin on Douyle. And you dont see the blatant hypocricy? You seriously need a reality check, "lady"

""I believe Walker set a "goal" of 250,000 jobs, he did not "promise" it."" This is a statement by a truly delusional individual. Whom has been touting lower unemployment PERCENTAGE. Percentage just went up .3% , has gone up .5% since the recall. Wasnt there some statement from the Gov about business owners all over the place waiting for the recall to end? Well.......All I see is people making excuses for their hero, he has made a bunch of really dumb statements about job creation that he full well knew he would never be able to back up. YOU bought it, and now you make excuses or blame democrats!HA!! What ever happened to the party of personal responsibility? Guess its just a matter of which way the wind blows. What a bunch of pathetic excuse makers you are. If this was a democrats recors you people would be all over him/her see Obama. Ignorance should be defined as those blaming one party for everything, while THEIR "party" is the SAVIOR. What a freaking JOKE.
Look at the jobs numbers nationally in late 200--2009, thats BUSH economics, NOTY Obummer, wake up idiots.

Yes, he made a commitment to set a goal of 250 thousand jobs by the end of his first term.

He did not PROMISE. Is it the end of his first four years?

You Walker haters expect him to do everything in one year, and anything that doesn't work is his fault. Then we have Obama, who has almost finished his first term, and he is given every excuse there is for not doing what he said and committed to doing. Does anyone see this as being a bit hypocritical?

Wislady its the second link I attached to the post

If some of you want to believe that Obama has saved the world, go ahead. Most of America has realized the lies can only be covered up for a short time. You would have people believe that all of the United States, with unemployment at 8.3 percent, is better off then Wisconsin, which has been at 7.1 percent. Only in Obamanomics is that true.

No more whining and excuses for the miserable failure this current presidency has turned out to be. He has NOT earned a second chance to ruin this country even more than he has already.

concernwi

You quoted something Walker said.....where is the link for your quote?

Scott Walker can do what Obama is doing and getting away with - blame it on the previous administration.

wislady,
"fake numbers"??? We were in a recession (meaning job LOSSES every month) and since March 2010, we have been in a recovery (meaning job GAINS every month). That is reality. The rate of growth has been slow and with more people trying to get into the job market (kids grow up, but older people can't quit because they lost some of their savings in the market crash, for instance) the rate of growth hasn't been enough to lower the unemployment rate.
_
Obama was successful at warding off a 2nd Great Depression (which if you look at 2008/2009 news articles, it was a real possibility). The recession was much worse than originally thought (again original fed numbers were off) so the stimulus was smaller than what it "should" have been to fit with the depth of the recession.
-
You have to at least admit that the job LOSSES turned into job GAINS under Obama.

Wislady , can you admit you were wrong about it being a goal?

why_think

You can list all the fake numbers you want....reality is fact.

Obama is the Food Stamp President.

Give up the GWBush rhetoric, Obama has worn that excuse out.

141k added March 2010
193k added April 2010
84k added May 2010
92k added June 2010
92k added July 2010
128k added Aug. 2010
115k added Sept. 2010
196k added Oct. 2010
134k added Nov. 2010
140k added Dec. 2010
119k added Jan 2011
257k added Feb 2011
261k added March 2011
264k added April 2011
108k added May 2011
102k added June 2011
175k added July 2011
52k added Aug. 2011
216k added Sept. 2011
139k added Oct. 2011
178k added Nov. 2011
234k added Dec. 2011
277k added Jan 2012
254k added Feb. 2012
147k added March 2012
85k added April 2012
116k added May 2012
73k added June 2012
172k added July 2012
.
JUST TO BE FAIR!!!

wislady,
"""How does Obama spin the 2 Million jobs lost under his watch?"""
.
Would you agree that the stimulus passed by congress and signed by President Obama didn't begin being implemented until June 2008?
.
136K lost Feb. 2008
112k lost March 2008
215 lost April 2008
216k lost May 2008
231k lost June 2008
259k lost July 2008
294 lost Aug. 2008
425k lost Sept 2008
480k lost Oct. 2008
797k lost Nov. 2008
658k lost Dec. 2008
PRESIDENT OBAMA SWORN INTO OFFICE
839k lost Jan. 2009
725k lost Feb. 2009
787k lost March 2009
802k lost April 2009
312k lost May 2009
426k lost June 2009
296k lost July 2009
219k lost Aug. 2009
184k lost Sept. 2009
232k lost Oct. 2009
42k lost Nov. 2009
120k lost Dec. 2009
40k lost Jan. 2010
27k lost Feb. 2010
Since March 2010 the United States has seen POSITIVE JOB GROWTH, PRIVATE SECTOR JOB GROWTH!
.
If you honestly and objectively look at where this country was in 2008/2009 and where it is now; you have to give President Obama some credit. Obviously, things are not good YET! For many people it still SUCKS! However, under the leadership of this President things are moving SLOWLY in the right direction.
.
My concern, and something nobody has had the ability OR courage to answer is HOW will Gov. Romney's policies be differnt from President GW Bush and how will that improve things faster?
.
Most of what I have heard and read involves doubling-down on tax breaks for wealthy Americans and moving regulation BACKWARDS to what is was prior to President Obama taking office.
.
Please explain how that will help.
.
I want a better solution that the current pace of recovery but I don't believe de-regulation and more tax breaks for the wealthy/corporations will make things better.
.
Personally, until the American people are courageous enough to buy MADE IN AMERICA I don't see things changing. Selling out this country for greater profits (or lower taxes) is not only legal but applauded.

No Wislady it's a "pledge" “It’s a commitment I made in 2010 and it’s a commitment I make today,” Walker said. And just to be sure nothing is missed, I added the link to the definition of promise.

"A declaration assuring that one will or will not do something; a vow.
b. Something promised."

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/promise...

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/15124...

@Wislady- Walker quote
" Create 250,000 new jobs- We Will "get government out of the way of employers ... who will then help Wisconsin create 250,000 jobs by 2015, and as we create those new jobs, we will be able to add 10,000 new businesses.”

Wislady, you're act is old and tired, don't you have to mix the koolaid or something.
Oblamer you sound a lot like Grandy's 666, isn't this the blog where you thank the Governor for doing what you put him in office to do?

We all know from last fall, how misleading the numbers have been from the Feds. The "misinformation" was just part of the tactics used by the lefties as they tried to smear Walker before the recall.

Jobs down in July, based on data that’s not very good, officials say

http://wisconsinreporter.com/jobs-down-i...

carlitosway.....

"You need to be denied comments"

....in American, we still have free speech (even for idiotic statements).

fordfan

I believe Walker set a "goal" of 250,000 jobs, he did not "promise" it.
Had the lefties worked with the Governor instead of spending millions of taxpayer dollars trying to make sure jobs were NOT created, Wisconsin would be far ahead of many states in job creation. The democrats spent all their time obstructing anything positive, as they believed Walker would lose the recall and they could pursue the union agenda again.

"If he "promised" jobs like that"....have you been living under a rock? He did it repeatedly including just before you voted for him in the recall election.

ford- If he "promised" jobs like that, that was wrong..No governor can do anything like that...Fedgov has it sabotaged.

Olblamer wrote,"Ever heard of checks and balances? That's how it works..Obama has done enough damage....wait until Oblahblahcare kicks in....having healthcare living in a cardboard box isn't my idea of success.
McDonald workers work their butts off and make ends meet. What's wrong with your butt?"

You need help.

truth1...then why did he promise 250K jobs? Was he lying that he could do that? tell the truth now....

When will Walker release his figures?

AGAIN....Walker or any other state governor can do next to nothing to bring jobs.
Those are all sold-out at the federal level.
If a state isn't lucky enough to have oil fields or gold mines, well...........

Dick--Easy answer.....The right wingers can't accept it because the last time they were asked to trust the WDC numbers, they turned out to be totally false........duh.

JoyM as in Walkers Numbers in his recall ads? Wislady here you go blaming MR. O again Walker is the one in Wisconsin If it were up to you no one that is in a bad way deserves anything. ARE YOU DEAR DIANE HENDRICK's TWIN? You need to be denied comments as nothing you post has any concrete support. Midnight LOL get a clue and face that the wheel that started the job loss was rear wheel Bush on his way out and YOUR GOP blocks anything and everything that would bring this country back. The boss of a Job site cannot get a job done if all the workers sit and plot to destroy the company.....Obama cannot do his Job with the GOP sitting on their high and mightier than thou attitude plotting to take everything from the hard working people and give to the rich SOBs to keep their companies overseas. And to not want to pay a fair wage to those of us that work our butts off to make ends meet.

Why can't you right-wingers accept this for what it is, Walker sucks!

Sad news for Wisconsin. Even worse as the entire nation continues to suffer from higher unemployment under Obama. 42 months in a row.

More effects of the Democrat-Republican Destruction Machine.

davemartino -- great post!

The comments here about this article are a microcosm of the national political scene and thus one of the big problems we face as a country. It's also what we hate about the buildup to the presidential election. People that are affiliated with one party or the other listen to the news station and story that supports their views then espouse that viewpoint whether they have done their own research or educated themselves on the issue or not. Democracy was built on the notion that the best ideas are generated from conflicting viewpoints. From these viewpoints, as a country, we get to the best solution. We seem to have lost that concept somewhere along the way. Instead we are mostly concerned only with proving one viewpoint wholly right and the other wholly wrong even if we have to bend the truth to do it. Everyone supports their own political ideology but no one ideology is completely right and no one ideology works in every situation over time. Success will come only after everyone can focus on the problem and solution.

Outside of having oilfields like North Dakota, there is almost nothing states can do in the face of the constant job-destroying activity by fedgov.

WISLADY - Here is the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel FRONT PAGE story. All of these people CONNECTED to Scott Walker and all of the political crime. A good rule of thumb is not to associate yourself in life with so many that are so willing to break the law AND that holds true for ALL politicians.

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepoliti...

I understand Congress is still looking into his testimony UNDER OATH.

http://teamsternation.blogspot.com/2012/...

http://www.thenation.com/blog/167881/did...

http://www.thenation.com/blog/168087/hou...

http://crooksandliars.com/kenneth-quinne...

Another round of tax cuts for the job creators should turn the jobs numbers around.

WISLADY - Thought you needed an UPDATED look at Scotty Walker & friends - As John Dean said - he is more "NIXONIAN" than Nixon.

"Walker more Nixonian Than Nixon"

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/ma...

"Ongoing John Doe Probe Of Walker Aides Reaches State Level"
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepoliti...

"Scott Walker LIES to Congress 15 Times"
http://teamsternation.blogspot.com/2012/...

And I think it's gonna be a long long time
Till touch down brings me round again to find
I'm not the man they think I am at home
Oh no no no I'm a rocket man
Rocket man burning out his fuse up here alone

Anal......"We have been using this unemployment measuring tool for about 50 years. It is not perfect but a representative sample of a trend"
Yes, we saw just how accurate those numbers were before the recall election........didn't we? When a much more comprehensive polling was done by the US bureau of labor statistics, that set of numbers was completely invalidated--DWD numbers were showing job loss when there was actually job gain. The numbers from the DWD do have good entertainment value though.....I love it when it brings all the liberals out foaming at the mouth while they seem somewhat excited that based on a poll of 3% of the state's businesses, that the state's economy is falling to pieces.......silly little liberals:)

love the armchair economists.

How does Obama spin the 2 Million jobs lost under his watch?

"survey of about 3.5 percent of Wisconsin businesses and subject to significant revisions". It was proven that the numbers were "cooked" by the Feds over the past year, and were corrected usually 3-4 months later.

Remember....telephone survey.

Yes, they should be denied driver licenses. If it is too hard to get a drivers license or ID to vote, then why should it be so easy for illegals to get identification will will make it easy to vote illegally?

purplethehelmet
Could you explain how the entitlements for the new temporary "legal" illegals will be paid, when they start signing up for Medicaid and welfare?

scotty is to busy to worry about jobs, right now. his new full time job is texting ryan, about getting more campain money and being a rock star.

Let's see here.... 250,000 jobs promised. Plus the 12,900 he's lost... Only 262,900 to go! Do you hear that great whooshing sound? That's not the sound of businesses rushing into the state to create jobs after Walker won the recall. No, it's the sound of jobs leaving the state once businesses realized he had won.

@Joy- We have been using this unemployment measuring tool for about 50 years. It is not perfect but a representative sample of a trend. We have always accepted it's results before Walker came along- suddenly, it's not telling the truth? Job growth is dead under Walker and I suspect will continue on a downward trend. Proof that his little tax incentives for the wealthy to hire people isn't working but it is making them richer.

@JoyM: What color is the sky in your world? "Reality" is that the economy is not doing well.

Wait for Governor Walker to come up with the real numbers.
I guarantee that they will be much better.

With the Obama amnesty program, I wonder what the effect will be on statewide and nationwide employment....for citizens.

I would like to see Wisconsin follow the example of Arizona....no driver licenses and NO entitlements for illegals signing up for this temporary amnesty program.

"The numbers reported Thursday by the state Department of Workforce Development are based on a survey of about 3.5 percent of Wisconsin businesses and subject to significant revisions." Really, people - would you listen to 7 out of 200 people and decide that what they say must be right for the entire sample population? And do you not know what "subject to significant revision" means? It means these numbers could be completely out of line with reality.

These people must think we are ignorant,they never count in all the factors!!
Maybe tell us how many new welfare cases there are in the last year or two,or three,or four,damn i get tired of these people back stepping,and thinking were stupid on the numbers game....

Thank you Gov. Walker! Moving this great state forwa....oops, never mind.
Quick, change the subject to non-existant voter fraud!

"what th..."