Dr. Talk ~ The state standards are actually some of the highest in the country. You can also choose which school to send your child to. It's called school choice, it's a law.

Smarty,
State standards are pretty low. I wouldn't send my kids to public schools. And besides, parents have a better understanding of their child's educational needs than the government does. If a parent chooses to send their child to public school, they should also have the right to choose which public school to send them to; it should not be based on the district they live in.

Smarty-Would you be willing to give us examples of of what goes on in kindergarten or pre-k rooms in Janesville? That might clear up some misunderstandings.

smarty -- I have

I strongly suggest that some of you actually GO to a Janesville Public School and spend a day in one of the kindergarten classrooms OR pre-k classrooms. There are so many misunderstandings stated in your comments about what actually goes on in pre-k and kindergarten classrooms. I'm not saying you will change your feelings towards 4-K or that you should change your feelings, but some of you are making false statements and you sound extremely ignorant. And yes the pre-k program does have a curriculum and state standards that are followed.

sewaelizebeth-
That was happening to my daughter, as well, although it's been quite awhile. I KNEW she was ready for school. So my husband and I paid the extra and started her in Kindegarten in a private school. After that, the public school had to take her for 1st grade.
She is now a year ahead of her peers, and is taking honors classes. I am glad I did what I did.

As previously stated, the Teachers' Union had nothing to do with the 4K program. Regardless, I am sure this program will be a benefit for some, not all, but possibly single parent families and families where both parents work. 4K will increase revenues from the state, for now we will have more students enrolled. Interestingly, the JSD will help defray the cost of 4K by using $500,000 that was earmarked for textbook replacement next year. Also, Dr. Evert has stated that the JSD is projecting a $2 million shortfall next school year and cuts in staff and/or programs are necessary again. In spite of this, the JSD has decided to return $1.5 million back to the taxpayers. So: add a new program, give a tax rebate, cut programs and staff. Hmmmm.

I'm annoyed at the fact that my daughter couldn't get into regular old kindergarten because she was born on September third. She would have been five when she started kindergarten but they said she would be better off starting later. I had to take her to testing and she didn't make the grade so she had to start when she was six. They told me the older the kids were when they started the better they seemed to do. Hmm-but now they have four year old kindergarten. Weird. To make me feel better though they did tell me she would probably be the first in her class to drive. Awesome.

has any one heard how much of the $7500.00 school dist.getting from state will go to the preschools? i bet not much!! extra monies will help pay for more of the sports needs.

All-day kindergarden was supposed to be optional and then it became the standard. Even private schools are feeling the pressure to conform. I just don't get it. Why is it that families have to have a double income to survive? Or, why don't we sacrifice to spend quality time with our children? You might not have the best home, car or weekend toys, but you have stable children that are emotionally ready to enter 1st grade. It isn't all about academics. Emotionally are children are paying the price.

BINGO, Sluggo! If you do wish your child to go half a day of K, you will be forced to make them go a full day or they will face retention! Also, the children only have 25 minutes the last part of the full day for classroom play. They at least get two recesses.

It's also kinda sad that kindergarten isn't half days anymore. I remember enjoying kindergarten. Now, if you ask about letting your child go half days, they miss out on choosing time and social play time because the first half is all academics, and the social play is only the last hour of the day.

Finally, educated readers are responding. The best way to stop 4K is to convince the pre-schoools that are considering to get involved in this to turn their backs. If the district doesn't have their support, their is no way they can get this off the groud by next September. They have no space, no teachers and from my knowledge they don't even have a curriculum. I teach 3-6 year olds and if I could turn back time, I would go back to the days when moms were home with their children and the children learned the basic skills in life by just being an active part of the family. They would see the love between a father and mother. They would learn to socialize with siblings and peers next door. They would be involved in daily work around the home that builds confidence and responsibility. But, we don't live in that world and the only way some people think they can change things is by making schooling at an earlier age the standard. Yes, children are capable of learning many things at a very young age. But, by forcing certain expectations at such and early age we are loosing sight of what they really need and that is the loving guidance of family. Pre-school is the artificial substitute. And from experience, artificial never as good as the real thing.

HERE HERE Athena!
1. Studies do show that by 3rd grade you CAN NOT tell from academic assessments which children had preschool, and which children did not.

2. Studies do show that by 3rd grade you CAN tell who had preschool because the ones who were in preschool don't like school as much as the ones who weren't in preschool.

3. Kindergarten classrooms DON'T TEACH the social skills that Jvlborn was talking about anymore, all they seem to do is GIVE WORKSHEETS, PUNISH kids for not knowing social skills, and recommend PSYCHOTROPIC DRUGS!

Part 2 of my post....
If you have a child that enters kindergarten knowing the ABC's, colors, shapes, has already started reading by sight words, can count way over 100, can mentally add and subtract a few numbers, follow rules, can share and is kind, BUT CAN'T yet draw, cut, paste, has difficulty with large groups of children, hard time following oral directions, requests too much help and has trouble initiating conversations with same age peers they would be considered behind and might face retention!

In conclusion I do not like the idea of 4K and the pushing down of curricula to younger and younger ages, but that's the way it is these days. We either have to all agree to change this or we deal with it the way it is. If you don't like what the school districts are doing, speak up and get involved. Not just locally, but at the state and Federal level as well. Private schools and homeschooling are wonderful alternatives, although you will still be paying taxes for the public schools. I would urge people to really do their research on the NCLB Act. Do the curricula/publishing companies have a vested interest in the high stakes testing? Also, look into other studies such as a UC-Berkley and Stanford studies that state that preschool may be detrimental to children's social skills. Research and read up on David Elkind and his work. Read John Taylor Gato. Look into the Cato Institute Policy Analysis, Campaign for a Commercial Free Childhood and NAEYC. Know what curricula your child's school is using? Is it poor quality? Have you heard of the math wars? Does your child's school use Everyday Math? Please ask questions, do your research and make an informed decision when you vote.

I do not think 4 year olds should have to go to preschool (I know it is not mandatory). Unfortunately, in this day and age preschool is expected. Those children who do not have the preschool experience are considered behind. An elementary school principal told me last year that,"Kindergarten is the new first grade.". Also, the kindergarten teachers sent a note home assuring parents that the kindergarten students would not be playing all day. However, I was also told at a kindergarten orientation that parents need not worry if their kindergarten children do not know much because in kindergarten they start at the very beginning with the alphabet.

As far as I can tell kindergarten teachers seem to expect that all the children had some type of day care, preschool or other classroom experience before they enter. The teachers want the kids to already know how a classroom is run. I think they want most of the kids to know how to listen, line up, put their own items away, hang up their coats, and be able to work with other children in a large group setting and such. The kindergarteners are expected to be able follow 3 to 5 step oral directions, write with a pencil, work independently on worksheets and journals with inventive/temporary spelling, cut with scissors, paste, do craft projects, color (with the "right" colors-people aren't allowed to be colored green), draw people and houses (scribbling and stick figure drawing not allowed), build a house of blocks (block on top of block), be able to go to bathroom, work their clothing and wash their hands on their own. I have also heard that kindergarten teachers would like the children to know how to play board games, duck,duck goose and such games with their peers. Other skills such as being able to be away from parents, turn taking, sharing, initiating conversations with same age peers and being able to communicate their own needs in spoken words are very important for kindergarten. By the end of the kindergarten year the children are expected to be reading at a level 5 book (easy reader) and know their 25 sight words.

I'd like to know how many of you with such strong opinions have been in a kindergarten classroom lately, or know preschoolers. You would be amazed at the disparity in not just knowledge and 'skills', but simple social lessons like sharing and kindness. In my son's kindergarten room, it was something of a 'class' issue. For the most part, the kids who were from poorer families did not know colors or shapes or how to get along well with others. We're all in this together, so let's help those kids whose parents don't or can't present the opportunities to be well-adjusted students. It benefits all of us. I think its a fact that any child who has zero experience in a school-type setting will have trouble adjusting if they're just thrust in all day, every day. This alone takes up SO much of a kindergarten teacher's time (preparing them for 1st grade) that I am all for 4K. We're all going to have to work well in groups for the rest of our lives!

My child had this experience and I would prefer that he wouldn't have had to wait while little Bobby threw a fit because HE wanted that book and none of the other 92 books were good enough for him. Everyone feels that way occasionally, but I doubt that the Bobbys of the world like finding out they're 'behind' from day one and other kids think they're a baby. Life is about getting along in society and if we can help some kids adjust more easily to school, let's do it. If you know 4 year olds, you know they like nothing more than learning new things.

Dr Talk, If we want to re-create a society where one partner (maybe the guy, even) could expect to stay home raising children then social programs (like 4k) are the types of things that ease the burden on the middle class. The government should use tax money to help the taxpayers rather than launching it into space with the shuttle or using it to start a war with Iran.

Ruby,
It does not take a village to raise a child; it takes a family. A family should take responsibility to instill their values in their child. If you send you're children off to public school, you don't know what type of "values" they are being taught. There was a report about one school that was teaching kindergarteners about homosexuality - and that's wrong.
I don't mind helping others, but I do have a problem with government forcefully taking money from me so they can feel like they're the ones helping others. The government can only be charitable with other people's money which is not true charity.

It's not a woman's issue egalindo. Sounds like you're saying that if a women goes off to work, she is less valued because she's not making any money. If both parents work and let someone else raise their children, it is the child that suffers. We shouldn't be creating latchkey kids. And we should value women that want to stay home and raise their children. This is about what is doing right for children. Sending them to 4K where they will be indoctrinated in what is deemed appropriate by someone other than their parents is not the way to go.

I see this as a women's issue. Choosing to keep kids home another year is not "free." In most cases women pay by not earning a year's salary, health insurance and retirement. 4K will give women a chance to go back to the workforce sooner, not only if they need to, but if they want to.

Ruby: There are other social skills that I'd rather not have my 4 year old learn in this setting. Why do educators feel that "play time" needs to be structured? Play time can happen anywhere, not just forced in a school setting for socialization purposes. As far as "it takes a village", why does the village have to be created within a school district? Shouldn't this fostering begin at home and within our neighborhoods? If it isn't, then we need to work on that...not add more programs to an already over-bloated, financially strapped -- breaking down system. We will have to agree to disagree on this issue since you have your convictions and I have mine.

Just because something is "for kids" doesn't automatically make it the best choice. I don't think anyone would deny that our children are most important and that their education is valuable. I simply wish the motivation for passing this particualr program was really because of the kids. FYI: I am also a preschool teacher in an excellent school.

"It takes a village to raise a child." Okay, the next time you see those skateboarders ruining the steps, rails and personal property downtown stop'em and give them a smack on the bottom and tell'em to quit it.

Seriously though, aren't there enough problems with the school system as it is without adding to them? And at what cost/advantage ratio. I would rather see year round school, new text books, or more teachers for my tax dollars.

As a preschool teacher, I must say that I'm happy to have the 4K. Yes, it will cost money as anything we do costs money. And to those who are yelling and having fits, just remember the old saying that it takes a village to raise a child. Just because you don't have any children, and I don't either, doesn't mean you shouldn't help. What is wrong with this world is that everyone has a me me me attitude until they need help. The same people you're yelling about helping (the kids) are the same people that may one day grow up to help you!
As for early childhood programs, they are not glorified babysitters. Children learn valuable problem solving and social skills among other things at these programs. "Play time" is really learning time for young children. People need to remember that teachers only have students some 19% of the year. The rest of the education of the child is up to parents and families. Imagine that, people taking responsibility for the education of their children at home! If parents and families helped...that's a new story. Yeah for 4K!

The beautiful thing is, I can live in the City of Janesville (a full service municipality)and pay their City property tax bill, but still live in the Milton School District (many of the houses north of Hwy 14 are in the City of Janesville, but in the Milton School Distric). That is the best of both worlds. I can also live in Janesville, in the Janesville School district, and apply for Open Enrollment. BEAUTIFUL!

Just how much is this free program going to cost you?

I see I'm not the only one that voted for Dennis Vechinsky based on his opposition to 4K. The School Board was elected to represent the people and stand by campaign promises. Obviously Dennis fell short.
Then there is speculation that the board won't have to increase the tax levy to the maximum allowed.
Speaking of Kool Aid! The same board that foolishly turned down the cell tower at Marshall Middle school and instituted 4K against the voters wishes will not raise taxes?...hmmmm.

Habestrinda - the grass is always greener on the other side - move to Milton and you will see that it is not as green as you think.

I do mean at tax payer expense.

4k is nothing more than glorified daycare at taz payer expense.

paisleysdaddy:
You're wrong about the government not forcing anyone to participate. They may not be forcing you to send your kids there, but they are forcing tax payers to pay for it.

Habestrinda: Milton has issues of it's own. In fact, I wouldn't be comfortable sending my children to either districts right now. No Child Left Behind means hold back the bright, mainstream the others and get the kids to pass the tests so the money keeps flowing into the district. Homeschooling is a wonderful option. Not the best option for all families, but a wonderful option for many. (note: I'm not a religious right person or hippie freak...just speaking from experience.)

I am fully aware of Milton's situation and follow it very closely. Personally I would rather have my money going to that district. They have their priorities right...CHILDREN. If they need money, it is because THEY NEED MONEY. They will have their growing pains for sure.

Furthermore, you are missing the point all together. The Janesville school district has a very poor reputation for manipulating the public and it's own school board. I have worked with some of these people first hand and they are game players. They never have an answer to your questions. They skirt and dance around the facts. It is like talking to a politician. You can disagree with me, but many are aware of the problems. This 4K program is nothing but money driven. They had no facts two years ago, they have no facts today to support such a program. THAT IS A FACT AND THAT IS MY POINT!!

Habestrinda - we moved from Janesville to Milton (not because of the schools, but just because we found a house and it happened to have fallen in that school district). My taxes and my water bill have tripled from what I paid in Janesville. Milton is building a new High School soon, so if you think you are moving to a "cheaper" area, you may want to think again.

BillyRay - my children have gone to both districts for school. Both districts offer a wonderful education and wonderful teachers.

I hate to remind you that Milton will be soon looking for referendum money if all you people move there. They are running out of room as it is. The bigger a distict gets the more it costs to run. What moving to Milton will get is the same problem in a few years. Then where will you move?

Well, congrats to Kitty Grant, Everet and their Entourage. I knew if you brought this back enough you would get it to pass. It's no different than when you want a referendum to pass. Work 'em over enough and they cave or don't show up to vote. Vechinsky, you have disappointed me. Never will I vote for you to be on school board again and I encourage others to do the same (note to reader!). One of the blogs is accurate is saying...."you drank the KOOL-AID". Kevin Murray, I didn't know you had it in you. WAY TO GO! Little do people realize is this program is being brought to the district to help a "minority" of children (that the administration could never put an accurate number to because they don't even know who is "fall between the cracks") that could be better served in a variety of other ways that would cost the taxpayers less money. Don't tell me it is FREE education. Free for your child maybe because you don't make enough money to pay taxes or you rent. But, I am paying and my neighbor is paying and the elderly are paying. Just because I don't write my check directly to the district doesn't mean they aren't getting ahold of my tax dollars. Wake up people and educate yourselves. Soon as my family is able, we are moving out of the Janesville school district and into Milton's. Right now you get my property taxes, but soon you'll get NOTHING!!!!! On that day I hope to throw a big party in your loss and my gain. Janesville's administration cares more about money than they do quality programs for children. Ths administration needs a new vision that includes CHILDREN versus ladder-climbing(Kitty) and bank accounts. Numbers, numbers, numbers. If the Milton board is reading, don't let Everet "sweet talk" you into any school district line changes. It is all about money. Money for the administration, that is. Stand your ground and keep Milton out of Janesville's slippery fingers. Private pre-schools: I suggest you keep doing the great job you are already doing to serve this community; educated parents will find you and trust you with their children because you put children first. Don't get involved with 4K. If you do, you will end up loosing. The district will control you and you will regret it

These early education programs may not be for all families, but we shouldn't toss them aside because they are needed for some children. My son needed early childhood for a speech delay and the program did wonders for him. this year he turned 4 and no longer needed early childhood but still needed a boost before kindergarden. Thankfully he was able to get into the pre-k class. 4 year old kindergarden will help kids who need the little extra help before kindergarden, even if it is just socialization skills.

Congratulations Janesville School Board - another outstanding vote without actually gathering all the facts or making an intelligent decision... my hat is off to you for at least being consistent.

I agree with Carrisford. 4 or 5k is optional, no government is forcing anyone to participate. My stepdaughter currently attends Head Start, and my daughter starts there next year. My daughter gets to go in with her sister on occasion and they both love it. If this type of program is going to be 'contracted' to do some of this early education, it's a great idea. They do a great job of helping working families get their children ready for kindergarten and first grade.

Teachers are not asking for this...parents are! This is free daycare, and just think, parents will have the most loathed people in Janesville caring for their children! Wow!

This is a great development for families who need the extra year to get ready for school. This will prevent at-risk students from being behind at the start.

Naysayers, kindergarten (4 OR 5K) is optional...it always has been. Keep your kids at home if you want to, skip kindergarten if you want, but for some children this IS very important. We'll see your kids in first grade (or at activities since you're planning to homeschool) since you feel so strongly against this.

The Teacher's Union benefits by adding more dues paying members to "educate" the 4 year olds that should still be at home! Please correct me if I'm wrong, but adding 4 year old kindergarten will increase the need for teachers. Did I miss the press release from the Teacher's Union saying this was a bad idea?

Teachers had no voice in this. This was an administration and board decision.

What does the Teachers Union have to do with this, this was the board of education

A victory for the Teacher's Union! Why not just rip the child from their mother at birth and start the government indoctrination right away!!