Actually, I am in the private sector because I couldn't do the job that teachers do! I volunteer, donate to numerous local causes, and support this community's youth, teachers, GM workers, needy, homeless, etc. By supporting other people and picking up the slack, we can help make Janesville better all the way around.

I do volunteer. The fact is I am one person and the clubs represent hundreds of volunteers doing good things for the community at a time whne people need it most. By previous posts I am guessing you may be a teacher or married to one. I am not putting the blame solely on the JEA, but on the contract process as a whole. I double checked my spelling this time, did I do it OK?

Why don't you volunteer after your work day to help your child and his/her friends make someone's holiday special? You would be setting a wonderful example and they could be fulfilling THEIR (spelled correctly) volunteer project at the same time. Keep us posted on your efforts!

My child's service clubs have now cancelled there Christmas volunteering projects.

Nice to see they will drag the elderly and the needy into the negotiation fray.

Nice job schoolboard and JEA!

Wow. Nice to see this discussion still going strong. From reading the posts, I get the impression that just about everyone who is against paying teachers more seems to be jealous of the time off, the retirement, and the pay. Sorry your jobs suck. Sorry you work for companies that treat you like crap. Sorry you don't belong to a union who will try to help you make more money and protect your benefits. Maybe if you had done better in school, you could have went to college and become a teacher, or a doctor, or a nurse, or a fireman, or anything other than what you became. Put your own crappy life aside and stop whining about what other people have and you don't.
Okay, so let's discuss the other myths from people-pretending-to-be-smart-but-aren't. There most definitely is a teacher shortage. Alright, maybe not for middle school shop teachers(because EVERYONE wants that job), but core curriculum, special education and computer science. Baby boomer teachers are retiring, and even with summers off, not many 22 year olds with a B.A. are taking the 25k first year pay to teach computer science.
Look I know it's hard for you to stomach the fact that your high school gym teacher makes more than you ever will, but what about that special education teacher that everyday deals with children whose issues you would rather not think about, who makes less than the assistant manager at Pizza Hut? She doesn't deserve a five percent pay raise every two years?
What about the reading teachers, the math teachers, the science teachers who everyday work with kids with learning disabilities and offer extra time to help them succeed? If you can sit there, in all honesty and tell me that these people do not deserve to be paid more, then lets hear your argument. Really, not just jealousy, half truths and factless statements.
And please, leave the church out of this. If they want to underpay and underfund because they don't have any money left after the lawsuits, who's fault is that?
Enough with the vouchers,too,while we're at it. It fails because it's flawed. Thought we tried it. People who needed them never used them, the people who could pay for their children to go to ANY school used them and the taxpayers picked up the tab. And really, let's not hear about someones' better version of vouchers. Enough with the poop-polishing already.

Mludekin:

There is no shortage of teachers! Teachers wages are more than "respectable" considering their work year and their retirement benefits are lavish.

There is enormous room for improvement in our educational system. Hardly any activity in the United States is technically more backward. We essentially teach children in the same way that we did 200 years ago: one teacher in front of a bunch of kids in a closed room. The availability of computers has changed the situation, but not fundamentally. Computers are being added to public schools, but they are typically not being used in an imaginative and innovative way. So wha do the union leaders ask for...more money? Why? The product that public school teachers produce, on balance is worse today than it was was 20 -40-60 years ago-which is one reason that nations all across the globe continue to make advances against the US public school stundent.

The private schools that 10 percent of children now attend consist of a few elite schools serving at high cost a tiny fraction of the population, and many mostly parochial nonprofit schools able to compete with government schools by charging low fees made possible by the dedicated services of many of the teachers and subsidies from the sponsoring institutions. These private schools do provide a superior education for a small fraction of the children, but they are not in a position to make innovative changes. For that, we need a much larger and more vigorous private enterprise system.

The problem is how to get from here to there. Vouchers are not an end in themselves; they are a means to make a transition from a government to a market system. The deterioration of our school system and the stratification arising out of the new industrial revolution have made privatization of education far more urgent and important than it was 40 years ago.

What do parochial schools have to do with this discussion. The Janesville School District teachers are public school teachers if I am not mistaken. All the great qualities of parochial schools are great, but that still doesn't address teacher shortages caused by a population that doesn't value education. Raising wages to a respectable level is the first step in recruiting more highly qualified teachers. Teachers in Germany make more than teachers in the USA because they value education more there. Time to wake up and use our wealth for something other than contractors in Iraq.

TCB, your response to whythink was dead on.

From my time serving on boards/councils at two of the local parochial schools, I can tell you that they do not make anywhere near what the public schools make. St.XXXXX set the pay scale at 95% what the Jvl public teachers were paid the previous year, and they did not get benefits. A couple years ago, St.YYYYY tried recruiting for a position and got no applicants. They made do without, restructured some things, increased the pay offering a little and were able to hire someone. So it appears that parochial schools are not the high paying jobs you seem to think they are. On the contrary, most of the employees there are also parents/church members who do it for the children, and there are lots of volunteers at both schools I served at.

I just dont understand why people are so upset about teachers getting more money or better benefits? We are going to be building an aquatic center, but yet people are complaining about what the teachers make, it doesnt make sense to me. Teachers are so important to our community, they teach our children, they are educators and nothing is more important than that, for people to say that teachers are whining is so disgusting to me, that i wish that people would wake up and look at the big picture!!!! Please everybody support our teachers!!!

Luvujvl:

How much? 100K per year, 300K? Should teachers earn what partners in large New York Law firms earn? Is this a good start? What is fair in your opinion?

You show your support for public schools by sending your child to a parachiol school-just like many public school teachers do. If you feel guilty because teachers do not earn enought, you can make parachiol school teachers (or public school teachers) your legal heirs and give them up to $12000 per year. Your annual cash gift will go a long way towards equating the salary public school teachers earn compared to private school teachers. You still have time for 2007...

Support your teachers ! Yes they are paid through taxpayer money. Yes they are under a contract. Who cares about that. It isn't up to them, it just IS. They deserve so much more than they are getting. They are some of the most important people in your kids' lives......keep them happy. Retirement system? Health care? YES. For all that they do, take care of them now and in the future. I'd be more than happy to pay more taxes to keep them solvent. They do a heck of alot else than the rest of us do, a pat on the back to all teachers out there for putting up with the myriad of things that come their way and still doing their job. OMG what a challenge. And still, they are doing it. Better people than you or I.

My kids attend a parochial school. So not am I only paying property taxes to support the school district when my kids don't even attend those schools ( and willing to pay more if these teachers need it) I am also paying tuition. And that is fine with me. The teachers we have at St. XXXX - you decide which one but they are all equally great - are so dedicated and such wonderful people - and they are working all these extra hours and giving their all above and beyond the call of duty, and getting paid MUCH less than the teachers make at public schools. Our parochial school teachers aren't a part of this union. They make on average 1/3 less than public school teachers. If anyone is going to feel sorry for anybody let's all give some support to THEM in this conversation. They have all the challenges of these other teachers, yet they have ZERO benefits. They are there because they CARE and they do an absolutely fantastic job educating our children. I haven't ever heard one of them complain about anything. Hat's off to each and every one of them - they are fantastic !

I am in full support of the public school teachers getting what they deserve. I just want you to all know that other (parochial) teachers are in the same plight. All educators should be paid more than most professions - they are so important - they shape our children. COME ON they need a raise across the board. A big one.

Whythink:

I earned my graduate degree while employed full time. I was not able to take 2 months off-at home to study. It can be done-I consider earning an advanced degree an investment in myself. I wasnt required to do it-I did it for myself.

If you feel that you have to have a graduate degree to maintain your employment, test the private market. See if you can earn a decent salary and lavish retirement and health insurance benefits all of which businesses factor into cost of employing you. Teachers are well compensated-but you have to consider the total cost of employement-not only your salary.

Teachers often complain that they aren't respected, yet they happily join unions whose leadership is all too willing to conduct labor-union thuggery, the most common of which is extortion (in the form of labor strikes).

America is a nation of diversity, where freedom of choice is cherished. Unless of course you choose not to join the teacher union, which will quickly make you a pariah, to say nothing of what will happen if you choose to go to work when the union decides to picket. This is to say nothing of the fact that in some school districts, one must join the union to be hired to teach. Freedom of choice, indeed.

America is also a nation of entrepreneurs, where one has the potential to be rewarded in proportion to one's efforts. Except with public school teachers, where tenured deadwood teachers make more than younger, dedicated first year teachers. More effort and even better results from individual teachers is not compensated, in fact merit pay is often disparaged by the teacher unions, for it doesn't fit in with the whole solidarity theme.

As a public school teacher I believe I am compensated fairly. I don't understand all the factors of the current negotiations but I am happy to know someone is working on it.
I love teaching and wouldn't change jobs for (almost) anything.
Do I believe and would I like more compensation, YES! Teachers deserve better. I do a very difficult job and I am basically required to obtain my master's degree. Yes, I get two weeks off (blame that on farmers and the WI Dells, not teachers). History shows that the 10 month school year was created so young male students could help out on the farm. It has continued because of the WI Dells. Teachers aren't to be blamed for that.

I worked as a teacher in a year around position. I made about $7K more that I currently do. I figured it out and it was about the same hourly rate.

BTW, I will be spending my summer vacation in grad. school and at home with my 2 children. No exactly 2 months OFF!

Teachers want the best compensation possible, why wouldn't they. It is unfortunate that the gazette, teacher's union and school board have decided to negotiate in the media.

I know this much, most JEA teachers would be willing to drop everything right now, stay at work late to help a student. Contract or no contract, teacher's won't walk out like GM did because we effect more than automobiles.

your right i apoligize to everybody in here, we got off the subject, I think the teachers should get the everything they are asking for!!!

Please stick to the subject and take your personal attacks off line so as not to subject anybody else to them. Thank you.

boy are you stupid, I'm not chafertepe if you are a cop you are a dumb one. i don't have to pretend to be someone else. all i did was let people what type a mother chafertepe is. you really need to grow up alot. i have to agree with chafertepe that the teachers here in janesville and across the counrty do not get payed enough for what they have to do and put up with

JPD, yep your right I made up another name so I could get people to like me in here...god what an idiot!! I am not CNHA3, but if I were I would certainely have talked more about you seabee, Im glad to see that seabee has a friend in you, that really makes my day!!!

cnha3, you are chafertepe. Your not fooling anyone. I like Seabee stop personally attacking him!!!

Yes seabee I did attack you personally but you are not that innocent, look at the some of the rude things that he has said, its not all me, I just have a lot of passion for what I believe in and he can't handle it. And its not about giving me a chance or whatever I dont care what anybody on here thinks of me. I was just trying to support our educators!! And thanks Cnha3, i know I am a good mama, I take alot of pride in my babies and anybody that knows me, knows that I would give my life for my babies, they are my life without them I am nothing. Thanks for the comment I really appreciate it!! happy holidays!!!

blackirish before you call someone a liar, you should find about the person, i know chafertepe very well, so i know what type a person she is and as for seabee i've read some of the other boards you also like to run your mouth too. there are some good points that she and you make. i believe that people are intitled to your own opinions. so she chooses to express her's here just like everyone else here. but people shouldn't attack how a person parents by there comments in here. chafertepe is a wonderful parent, she is involved in her children school, she helps them with there home work, she reads to them everyday (several times) there are parents out there who don't care what there children do at school or at home and she is not one of them. she really cares about her children and who are teaching her children

cnha3. Why should anyone give chafer any consideration before running their mouth about her? Look at the boards. She lives for running her mouth and insulting people with whom she disagrees and does not know. So why does she get special consideration?

blackirish before you run your mouth about someone you should know them chafertepe is a wonderful, caring mother. she takes pride in her children. her children think the world of her, so does the rest of her family. she would give the shirt of her back if someone needed it. get to know someone before you run your mouth about them

thank you for the comment blackirish, i am glad that you to have a conversation with you without attacking each other. I agree with you on alot of the things that you said, I just think that teachers get enough credit for what they do!!!

Blackirish, I am not high right now, just blonde and beautiful!! LOL. I am not a stoner. I think that teachers do alot for kids, my kids love there teachers. I would hope that other parents would support the teachers for all they do. I am 25 years old and graduated from parker almost 8 years ago, my teachers were fantastic, and my daughters' teachers are great, however they both work part time jobs, dont you think that is sad, if you dont that is your opinion, however think about this, when you choose your profession most people do go into thinking about the money, obviously teachers do not. That is not to say that teachers do not deserve a raise or more benefits because they knew they wouldn't make that much money, that is ridiculous!!!

Lets get back to the topic of teachers and leave the drug arguments to the other boards.
On that note, I would like to know why it is ok to assume the taxpayers can give a little more to maintain the teachers' standard of living while the taxpayers themselves aren't keeping up with the cost of living either. My pay raise this year didn't even come close to keeping up with inflation. But who really cares? The teachers must take precedent! Sorry teachers, I really don't give a rats you know what about your financial needs right now and I can do without the guilt trip you are trying to put the taxpayers through.

TCB: Public School Teachers must have a teaching license. Not all Private School teachers have teaching licenses.

Blackirish, if you are gonna quote me, quote right honey, I said that I never have smoked pot around my children, and I would never. If you really want to quote maybe you should do it the right way and not twist thing to make your argument. How dare you say I dont care about my children. And last time I checked this was the article about the teachers....not pot!!

1975: You are comparing apples and oranges. Why dont you compare what teachers already have to private school teachers?

BlackIrish I appreciate your last comment. We are not asking for anything outrageous. We want to keep the insurance the same and get a modest cost of living increase. Look at what this district has received in their contract settlement.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx...

One point that I have not seen made is that just because the JEA "suggests" that teachers only work their scheduled contract hours, doesnt mean that ALL the teachers choose to do that. I do alot of volunteer work at both of my daughters schools and there are plenty of teachers there still helping children after and before school. My oldest daughter is on a volleyball team at Marshall Middle School. Did the three teachers, who are coaches, storm off the courts and refuse to help them? NO. They care about these kids. Does the teacher who is the support staff volunteer for Marshall Volunteer Project (MVP) decide that she doesnt have to be there to help with our group...because of contract disputes? NO. Because she cares about the kids too. If these teachers didnt care about the kids, they wouldnt be teachers. Let's give them a break. If you think you could do this without "whining" as BlackIrish calls it, then have at it. All you need is a bachelors degree to apply to become a substitute teacher. But please, post here where you will be working first. I want to make sure my girls arent in school that day if you will be there. Your negativity is toxic.

Calling people names isn't nice, unless they are hippies.

excuse me blackirish? Are you saying that I dont raise my children, you are seriously the most judgemental person i have ever had the displeasure of speaking with. I am take very good care of my children, I am very involved in my children's education. Im glad you think teachers are whining? Let me ask you this, Have you ever asked for a raise? Come on now, dont act like you have, unfortunately for you, im sure the raises at mcdonald's arent' as good as a teachers raise would be!! What a jerk!!!

seabee, i see your point, however dont you think it is really sad that the people that take out our trash make more than the people that educate our children. And I dont think that teachers are whining, I think they just want more for what they do, people can agree of disagree the fact is that our teachers are the one's you EDUCATE our children, they care for our children, they are very deserving of a raise, or more benefits or whatever it is that they are asking for. Just because they knew that teachers dont make a lot of money before they chose to be educators does not mean that they should not get exactly what they deserve for all the things they do for kids. I dont think they are whining. In fact, I dont think they are asking for enough, for what they do. Talk bad about me all you want, I really dont care, however anybody in here with children, can appreiciate what teachers do for your children and mine! Every teacher that I had was caring, loving, compassionate, and now my children have the pleasure of having the same kind of educators in their lives. I am grateful that teachers obviously do not go into their proffession to get rich, THANK YOU TO ALL THE TEACHERS IN THE JANESVILLE SCHOOL DISTRICT!!!

Chafer, you really need to take an economics course. Just because a job requires a degree, does not mean that those jobs are entitled to a certain level of pay. Your garbage man reference is a great example. The average garbage guy makes more money than the average teacher. Why? Because the demand for garbage men is greater than the demand for teachers and the career span of the average teacher is 5 years, last I heard. I'll bet on payday the garbage guys are laughing it up. Teachers borrow 30-40 grand to pay for an education to get themselves a job that pays less than what the guy taking their trash gets. Come to think of it, they make more than I do, and I have a degree too. I'm just not gonna whine about it.

SORRY TO THE TEACHERS IN HERE I MEANT A MORE GIVING PROFFESSION, BLONDE MOMENT(YES I AM BLONDE). SO SORRY TEACHERS

Blackirish? I am curious to see if you have children? If so, what a rotten parent you must be, do you know what teachers do for children? Are you kidding me, what a jerk you are. I am not a teacher, but I would gladly pay more taxes to give my girls' teacher a raise. And the reason garbage men dont complain is because they are GARBAGE MEN they didnt go to college, they know that without having an education they are just garbage men, you want to talk about teachers like they are greedy, come on I can't think of a less giving proffession can anybody in here? Blackirish you seriously scare me, God I hope you dont have children I can imagine what they will turn out to be!!!!

I think the city should negotiate random drug testing into the next contract. I can think of 5 teachers off the top of my head that would lose their jobs. Maybe it would create a shortage and force salaries up. And as a bonus, we would get the adult stoners out of the schools.

Re1975,

Licenses related to your business or job are tax deductible on Schedule C or Schedule A respectively as are the cost of classes needed to maintain your license. You may pay for these out of pocket but there is a tax benefit.

The vast majority of teacher contract are 9 or 10 month contracts-you claim the mjority work 12 months? Where is your evidence? Is it anecdotal? The majority may choose to work a second job during the summer-but this is a choice.

If you take teachers pay spread over days actually worked, they make as much if not more than people who aren't teachers. And If there is a job out there with better medical/dental retirement benefits, I want to know what it is.

The majority of teachers do work 12 months out of the year. Summer months most work a second job or take classes. These classes are paid for out of our pocket just to maintain a teaching license. Blackirish what is you profession? Let me guess, Insurance Salesman? Car Salesman?

NEA has launched a national campaign advocating "living wages" for teachers.

"Salaries for new accountants ($45,000), engineers ($47,000) and registered nurses ($39,000) far outpace the income of new teachers ($30,000). Research also shows that salaries for workers with at least four years of college are now more than 50 percent higher than the average earnings of a teacher. To retain quality teachers and encourage more professionals to enter the teaching field, NEA is advocating for a minimum beginning salary of $40,000 for all teachers nationwide."

exactly. Janesville falls 8,000 below your average you found

Chemical Engineer? 36000 with 10 yrs. of experience. Are you sure you are not smoking some of that pot they found in town? Take a look this website. Starting Salary 53000 with a Bachelors degree. 79500 with a Phd. You better take a look at the accounting salaries as well.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm#earni...

Public school teacher compensation is chiefly determined by political forces, not market forces. Differences in salaries from state to state are determined by the status of the economy, collective bargaining laws, and the mood of the public. Differences from district to district are usually determined by the tax base and the relative skill of the district and union negotiators at the bargaining table.

The U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics offers data from 2004 showing a range from $26,000 to $71,000 for public school teachers. Assuming a 5% annual inflation rate-which is high, the adjusted figures in 2007 would range from $27,300 to $74,550. Not bad for working ~180/190 days per year. By comparison, an accountant or lawyer with two weeks of paid vacation and ten holidays or personal days will work 240 days annually—nearly 30 percent more days per year than public school teachers. Therefore, because of the short work day and work year, teachers earn more than many other educated professionals on an hourly basis.

These facts are not unknown to teachers. They are fully aware of these facts going into the profession.

Fair enough, but we all knew the pay level and became teachers anyway. I don't disagree that we deserve more on a scale with other professions. In europe teachers are valued to a much greater degree. I will say it again it is a sad commentary on our society that we pay the folks who build our cars more than those who educate our children. We all had to invest in our education before we even qualified to apply for a position. We take our profession very seriously and spend many hours outside of school preparing for our classroom duties. Oh and we are required to continue our education. And, we can't take an off site lunch and down a couple beers and then go back to work!

I never said match - just compared - in the mid-late nineties it wasn't as bad, just moderately low.

When did teachers salaries ever match other professions? When I graduated starting pay was around 9500.00 my accounting major roomates started at almost double that. Who are we kidding? we get the summers off, we should be doing what we love!

Ooooo BlackIrish that hurts. Teacher's salaraies used to compare to other professional salaries in Wisconsin; lateley they are falling behind. Janesville is not keeping up with the cost of living, and now the board wants to take away what the teachers have fought for in benefits. It isn't volunteer work - it is a profession. Much to the suprise of Janesville, teachers don't get free healthcare, it is part of the salary package. To take that away is pretty much the same as cutting salaries. Why doesn't the board look at how many married couples in Janesville pay double benefits? Oh yeah - the district makes money off them because the healthcare is self-funded. Many school districts offer buy out programs for couples that are double insured and they SAVE money. I guess the future isn't important anymore, as long as residents can get that flat screen t.v. - that's what is really important. Competitive salaries, that's all the teachers want, not to be millionaires.

Unlike private companies, Wisconsin won't go out of business. Our state's taxpayers are there to guarantee the lavish benefits to retired beneficiaries.

It's absurd that taxpayers who saw the value of their own private retirement plans stagnate or erode after the recent stock market decline should be taxed more heavily to hold government workers harmless. The defined benefits are too generous, members retire too early, they don't pay enough in, and the taxpayers pay too much. There's simply no need to give retired a gold-plated retirement plan that grossly exceeds current private-sector standards.

What teacher, while in college didn't know what the pay scale was? They are shocked to find out only after getting a position? It is a shame that our society values the people who build our cars more than those who educate our children. That being said, we all knew when we entered the profession what the pay scale was. We should have chosen education because we wanted to enhance the lives of our students not to retire as millionaires! By the way how about the retirement funds that the tax payers support, last I checked, my free retirement account had a nice balance.

Whythink,

Funding of government (public) schools is only one aspect of issue. Washington DC schools typically spend more per student than anywhere else in the United States and the result is these students consistently are near the bottom in academic performance.

Many objective measures show this countrys student academic levels to be on the decline. Parents and other taxpayers are becoming increasingly dissatisfied with the education product. Teachers performance evaluation processes as currently applied in the public schools provide very little accountability. Neither teachers nor anyone else can be expected to prioritize something -- such as increasing students academic performance -- for which they have no real accountability.

The primary focus of the education debate should not be on how much we spend but on how we spend it. Current resources should be dedicated to programs with proven results. Increased state contributions to K-12 education, if any, should be tied to the implementation of new reforms that give students and parents more choices, principals more authority and flexibility, and teachers more incentive to excel. Unfortunately, teachers unions do not want any part of the accountability to the people who pay their salaries.

First, thanks scoop.

The problem with the educational system is how the funding occurs. I am a teacher and currently enrolled in a graduate program. Some of the other teachers in the program are having their tuition paid for by their district, some partial pay, and some (like me) no pay. I will spend over $10K of my own money to keep my license and earn a raise.

The funding is not equal and that means the education is not equal. I am not saying Janesville doen't have the best teacher because I believe they do but some districts are struggling.

The Milwaukee suburbs where many GB and Brewer players build their mansions (you know, where Chumura likes to hang out at prom parties) have more money to work with because of higher property values = higher tax revenue.

Smaller districts struggle the most, technology, building space, course offerings; they just can't compete. The 1st district I taught in had many - too many - part-time teachers so they could offer more classes. It is difficult to develop a quality staff that way.

I don't understand why some view this as the teachers of janesville vs. the citizens of janesville. Neither side is at fault. The state and federal government has really stuck it to all of us. No child left behind - with no money hurt/hurts all of us.

I come to work everyday like all of you and do my job to the best of my ability. I never entered this profession with the goal of being rich; I entered because I love teaching children.

I don't like the politics going on but I understand teachers would still be living with their student's families if not for previous job actions. In order for us as teachers to be treated fairly we must take some actions. No teacher who truly loves teaching will allow the job actions to hurt a student. Teachers are aware of the careful balance that needs to take place. We understand we don't simply stop an assembly line, we stop learning if we don't perform.

Well said TCB!

One of the basic truisms of labor economics is that employers generally consider the
total cost of any particular employee in determining their compensation levels. In other words, the cost to an employer of hiring or retaining an employee is the summation of that employee’s salary or wages and their benefits, including employer contributions to health care, pension, and social security, plus allowances for vacation and personal days.
Often the actuarial value of these benefits will be considerable; being as much as one-third to one-half the value of the yearly income an employee derives. Failing to include the value of these benefits would be similar to failing to include the cost of paying a tip when eating out at a restaurant — the total price of the meal is not simply that which appears on the menu, just as the total cost of a teacher is not simply the salary he earns.
There are 4 million K-12 teachers in the United States and a waiting list of people who aspire to these jobs when openings occur. There are tens of millions of people who have the ability to perform this work if they wanted to. The market-clearing price equilibrates supply and demand. School districts must pay that price to retain current employees and fill vacancies. If there were a shortage of qualified teachers, school districts would be forced to pay more. If there's no shortage, they don't have to.
It is possible that a majority of the taxpaying public in Wisconsin truly desires for all teachers to be compensated at much higher levels than they currently are. If the public so demands it, and is willing to incur the costs through increased taxation, then so be it, and government agents should act accordingly. To reach that conclusion, however, it is irresponsible to not fully inform the public of the true nature of teacher compensation, its actual value, and how the system in which teacher pay is now determined.

Thanks for simplifying that because for a second I got scared and thought that you were pointing out the real story, that teachers would be facing a $30,000 reduction in each of their salaries. So what you're saying, is that each teacher does not take a $30K cut in pay and benefits. Did you mean that they are cutting that much out of the budget, but not necessarily out of each teacher's pay? Because, I'm pretty sure that no one would go along with having their pay cut $30,000- including the posters here that imply that teachers have it so wonderful.

I point this out simply because you claim that we the public, do not know the whole story. I'm not sure you know the whole story either based on your accounting, or you are just repeating from memory what the JEA has indoctrinated you with. Could it be in the realm of possibility that the cuts may come from expenses other than payroll? That the salary increases may be separate from the other cuts so that the net budget is $342000 less than last year? Or that positions will be eliminated resulting in that savings? Another question, how does the recently approved referendum address and relate to the contract negotiations? I thought they were separate issues, so would like to know the connection.

Now if the issue is that the people in charge are deficit spending, maybe then it's time for the public to take a hard look at who's running the show, and demand adjustments there, and not take it out on the people working hard "in the trenches"

Simply put, the district has asked for more in cuts than they have offered in pay.

liventhedream:
Please explain this: "The school district has asked that each teacher take $30,000 cut in pay and benefits, if you subtract $2,541,000 (30,000x 847 teachers) from their alleged increase of $2,199,000 = and you get a negative -$342,000." Sorry to sound like an idiot here, but I don't get it. What do those numbers mean, and what are they attached to?

I am not sure what the problem is. We don't need good schools in Janesville as long as we have GM and McDonalds, what skills are needed?

The teacher-school district contract impasse; is nearly entirely the school districts responsibility; the Gazette deserves some reasonability as well. Though the school district reports that they have offered the teachers a raise they have totally neglected to investigate whether it is true or not. Shame on them for taking sides. The school district has asked that each teacher take $30,000 cut in pay and benefits, if you subtract $2,541,000 (30,000x 847 teachers) from their alleged increase of $2,199,000 = and you get a negative -$342,000. This glaring reality is what has led to these tumultuous negotiations and to the Janesville teachers’ job actions. Now, I realize that a number of taxpayers and the Gazette have bought into the myth that the school district of Janesville is facing a deficit and that cuts are necessary to maintain our educational system. This myth is slowly being shown for what it is, a political ploy, and many of the school board members themselves have finally realized the truth when they lowered the school tax levy. The taxpayers had already approved a referendum (by nearly 3 to 1 margin) that was to pay for the necessary building improvements. If the district truly faced a deficit they would have kept the levy where the taxpayers had approved it and used the money for its intended use, the education of the students of Janesville.

TCB..You have some good ideas.. However, vouchers are not the answer, Milwaukee tried that..
Wi does have school choice, where my children can attend any school and my tax dollars follow me..

The fundamental problem with public education today is systemic. Public school districts have increasingly become politicized, corpulent bureaucracies in tow to their most influential constituent group: teachers unions.

The union resists compensation policies that reward individual performance or salary differentials for teaching specialties that are in higher demand or shorter supply. The unions prefer rigid pay grids based solely on seniority and post-graduate college credits. These "friends" of the public education status quo are, rather, foes of a better-educated public.

What's needed is a virtual revolution in public education. The best way to break the stranglehold of the public education establishment and the vested interests is to empower students and parents as true customers rather than captive wards of the state. And the way to do that is through vouchers providing portable funding comparable to the current per capita cost of education in a government school.

Milton Friedman has advocated this proposal for many years, during which time public education has only gotten worse. It's an idea whose time is coming simply because there's no workable alternative.

Being a teacher isn't an easy, glamorous job. I for one, can't even imagine the heartache and headaches that comes with dealing with children, parents, and school politics on a daily basis.
If Janesville wants to attract and retain quality teachers we need to be offering pay and benefits above market level. I am sure the teachers in Janesville aren't looking for anything more than teachers in comparable communities are getting.
Shame on all of you that put teachers down. I bet most of you couldn't deal with half of what they do.

THANK GOD MY CHILDREN GO TO MILTON SCHOOLS!

Seabee, I totally agree that the he said/she said back and forth arguing is a little much to take. I believe the school district was in the wrong when they wanted to engage in contract negotiations during the summer. Many teachers work other jobs, and many others are off elsewhere, which is why I think it's a little strange to request negotiations then, when many members of the JEA may have been unavailable to provide their input. Not many people would be willing to sit down and work through the long and arduous negotiation process on their own dime. I also think that the teachers are somewhat short sighted when they talk about the surplus $$ in the self funded health plan. Sure, there may be a surplus in funding this year because fewer and less expensive claims were made against it last year. Maybe that surplus is used as a hedge in case a large number of big claims needed to be paid. I don't know, but I do know that if the surplus ran out, or that they distributed it back to their members, and there was a need to pay large, catastrophic claims, the teachers would likely scream bloody murder if required to cough up more dough for health care costs.

The district is in a good position from a bargaining standpoint in that they can sit back, claim to exhaust all negotiating channels and fall back on arbitration. Ultimately, they can fall back on the QEO, and force a 3.8% increase. A 3.8% increase, for those of you playing at home, does not keep up with cost of living and inflation, and can easily be swallowed up by rising health care costs.

The answer is not simple. I think both sides have to give. We the taxpayers are footing the bill, and our kids get stuck in the middle, and we get to watch all of the drama unfold before us here and in the printed paper

I have a few things to say....
First of all, the majority of us teaching CHOSE this profession for a love of children, not for the high salary. Teachers have worked for years without salary increases to preserve these benefits, now we should give them up?
1. Yes our "workday" is 7:45-3:45 but you name one teacher that ever works just those hours. I usually arrive at my school at 7:30 and leave at 5:00 pm! Weekends and evenings are "optional", but any good teacher has to work evenings and weekends to prepare lessons and grade papers, or write IEP's.
2. Lunch and Prep: We get a "30 minute" duty free lunch.. I can't tell you how many times, our lunch periods are not duty free..As far as prep, we are "given" 3 30 minute prep periods per week... most of the time I am trying to return phone calls and e mails to parents..
3. Salary..the beginning teacher earns an average of $30,000. We do not get overtime, or comp time, and it is spread out over 12 months. It is not like salary in the business world..if we miss work we take sick time or personal time. If you have a master's degree you may make $34,000..not much compared to a MBA candidate that makes $45-60 K.
4. Benefits: yes we have great insurance, but so do county employees, and I never see anyone objecting to county board members benefits!
5.Time Off: I get so sick of people complaining about how much time off we have.. When we have "inservice" days,we have structured meetings that are required. Yes our "contract days" are 185..but as educators we cannot take a vacation whenever we feel like it.How many days does a person with a business degree work? Let's take 365-104 days for weekends, down to 261, then deduct major holidays (usually 7), that makes 254, then deduct 2-4 weeks vacation (average 3 weeks) and you are down to 239 and then an average of 7-10 sick days (let's say 8) and we are down to 231. The difference between the teacher and the business executive is now 46 days or 9 weeks. Now the teacher "contract days are 185, but we are expected to get our rooms ready and prepare for the new year, so you can add at LEAST 1 week (5 days)and at the end of the year to clean up, take the rooms apart to prepare for summer school or cleaning another week (5 days) so we are now down to 36 days or 7 weeks difference. Now if you add on 1 hour per contract day that we put in extra that equals 185 hours or 23 days which equals 4 weeks of comp time or overtime we do not get.. That brings us to a difference of 13 days or 2 1/2 weeks. Not such a big difference now as compared to the salary difference!
6. Summer: I do not know of many educators that do not at least teach summer school for 6 weeks or work a part-time job. Many teachers hold a part time job during school. Look at Kohl's..many teachers work there part-time.

Ok optimus, good points. But we both know it won't happen so my analogy was off for that reason alone. Consider this though. I believe most teachers work their butts off, no doubt. I also believe most of them have passion for their jobs and their students, how else could they put up all the shtuff some of those kids put em through. Now look at the bigger picture and ask "are we getting what we are paying for?" I say no, and I don not blame local teachers at all for that. Parents are mostly to blame for a littany of reasons I don't want to go into or this thread will be miles long by morning. Since we taxpayers have no control over the parental habits of our fellow taxpayers, the next question you have to ask is "will opposing a salary increase hurt the students?" If the answer is yes, it would seem like the students are being held hostage to teachers desires or the teachers really are hurting for the money, which I find hard to believe.
Either way, think of the average income familly in Janesville. I don't have any figures to back this up, but I would be willing to bet my next paycheck that a teachers salary is quite a bit more than the average salary. As those poorer families sit round the dinner table, they must be wondering what the teachers are having for dinner.

Seabee, I hate to point this out to you, but your logic is somewhat flawed. Last I checked, any money that any person makes in this country is subject to taxation. Whether that person makes $100 or makes 1 million dollars, that amount can be subject to tax. This includes teachers. Everyone pays through taxes for services provided by our local, state and federal governments. Where should the baseline be then, if teachers make more than the people who "pay their salaries"? Because you state that it's a problem when service providers paid by the state are paid more than the people who pay in to support them. Your supply and demand example is also a poor analogy. Are you suggesting that some carpet-baggers should come in and say that they'd work for, and take less? You did mention that you are anti-union, so I am just wondering...
I'm pretty sure that the number of teachers needed for any school district is fixed based on needs to accomodate the number of students in that district. People can choose to be teachers, and even if teachers were at the top of the payscale for all workers everywhere, that would not guarantee them a job. This is where you seem to contradict yourself. If teachers were near the top of all payscales, causing more people to want to "join the ranks", wouldn't that resulting glut that you so succinctly put result in a school district's ability to choose the cream of the resulting crop? Then, I think, you may have just solved your sarcastic posting from 10:52 this morning.

okay seabea, i can now respect your opinion a little better now that I know a little bit of your background. I also agree that most teachers did not go into their chosen profession to get rich, most of them probably went into with the idea that they would help our children. However, the teachers, just because they didnt go into their field to get judged because they believe they should get paid more money. I believe they should get more money, better benefits and this is just my opionion. Thanks for your time.

chafertepe. I have done alot of things. Military, Heavy equip operator, small business owner. Currently a student finishing a business degree. No I am not nor have I ever been a GM employee. The gm mentality in this town annoys me greatly. I'm extremely anti-union so that wouldn't go over well. I have a couple friends that are teachers. I've talked to them many times about the problems teachers have. The biggest problem teachers have is trying to teach students in an environment where parents do not care about their children. There are enough of them that it degrades the whole learning experience for all the children.

ok, lets say that teachers are underpaid. lets also say that social workers are underpaid. lets say that librarians are underpaid. As a matter of fact, lets say that everybody that has a job requiring a college degree that also gets their pay directly through taxation is underpaid. When compared to people with say, business degrees or alot of experience in a difficult trade they are underpaid.
What is the difference? The last two people are wealth producers. Their wealth is confiscated by the government(fed, state, local) and redistributed to others to perform services society has deemed essential. When those people start making more than the people whoose wealth is redistributed to pay their salaries, then you have a problem. Why would wealth producers produce wealth if they can make more by being teachers? WHo would then earn wealth? The glut of would be teachers would force teacher salaries back down. Simple supply/demand. Besides, I've never heard a teacher or prospective teacher ever say they were getting into teaching for the money.

It takes alot of patients and compassion to be a teacher, and for somebody like Seabea to comment on how some of the H.S. graduates are, maybe parents should take the time to raise their children the proper way and teach them, that reading is a great way to spend time, All of my children are very good readers, and want to read, because I read to them, and because their teachers express how important reading is. Maybe Seabea never had parents that cared about his education, mine surely did and so did my teachers, and it is pretty crappy to say that teachers dont deserve a raise, did you not graduate here in Janesville? When I graduated in 2000, I thought the teachers were wonderful at what they do, maybe your teachers weren't but mine sure were and my children's teachers are fantastic as well. Good luck to all the Janesville teachers, my opionion is that you are not asking enough for all you do. My girls look up to there teachers and I would hope that adults would too, and be thankful that your child's teacher cares as much as they do!!!!

OptimusPrime Great point and I think you are right. I understand what a job action is meant to do. I just do not agree with thier reasons for the job actions.

No, that's wrong SeaBee

Unless local school districts have suddenly become governments, teaching is not a "government job." Saying so simply illustrates how poorly informed you are.

Seabee, Sorry but i have to disagree with you on that one. Teachers are held to a very high standard.

I think that what a lot of people are missing here, is that I do not believe the teachers want to do job actions. They know that these actions"hurt" their students, and I believe that this bothers a great deal of them. The idea of a job action is to bring to light to the general public the things that teachers do voluntarily without regard to their contract and pay. All of the actions that are being talked about are not in the contract for teacher compensation, yet the public expects it, and takes those things for granted because our teachers so freely give that up. I would task nearly anyone, to come up with as many voluntary things that are job related to their profession, and do those things on as regular basis as teachers do without regard for pay. I would be curious as to who, in what profession, and what those "voluntary" things are. These job actions are to demonstrate the "added" benefits that our students voluntarily receive. That is my point.

Seabea? Can I ask what you do for a living? I might be stereo-typical in my thinking here but are you a gm worker? Do you not care what happens to our teachers? Are you the judge of who is being a great teacher? Just wondering

That's a good point Seabee, but let's also look at the kids who do well on those tests. Who can those results be attributed to? Hope one of your kids isn't a recent high school graduate, or is your clan excluded from that over generalization?

OP (OptimusPrime) Excellent points made and I understand what everyone is saying. I am experienced in negotiations and it is what it is. This has turned into the he said she said stuff that I hate. The board says they wanted to get to the table but the union didn't come. The union says otherwise. Now what does the board have to gain by lying about this. Nothing. What does the union have to gain by this? I don't know. Contrary to what you may think I do use my head and know alot about these situations. All that I have meant to say, even though I got side tracked, is that teachers have it pretty good and to go out and take job actions after everything the district has been through in the last year stinks. I do not know how else they can go about it but to have the union reps go out and have an article like this put out is not good for the students and makes the teachers look bad. From what I have seen over the years I bet you bottom dollar that this is not the majority of teachers doing this just the unioin heads or some big wig union person from madison pushing this. The negotiation process is broke and I am sure there are many opinions on how to fix it. But come on, teachers by law get a 3.8 raise no matter what.

Looking at the average H.S. graduate, I would have to question if these teachers really deserve a raise. Oh, thats right, it's a government job, results are not required.

SIASD: (stupidisasstupiddoes)in case you couldn't figure it out.

Look, teachers do not work for a direct supervisor, as you appear to. They cannot go to their principal and ask for a raise if they feel that they deserve one, or if some time has passed since their last one. This is totally different than what appears to be your job situation. They work collectively for the school system, and as such, have to bargain collectively for a compensation contract. Can you possibly imagine the mess that would result if it were done the tradtional supervisor-review-raise route? Come on, use your head and think. You sit there and point out how lousy this situation is, point fingers and complain. What would be real interesting to hear is any of your ideas on how to improve the method of the teacher contract negotiation process. Are you suggesting that teachers should just sit back and take whatever they get, and be thankful for it? Would you do that?

I work in the private sector and I am not complaining about my job you are. I love my job. I am not on here to start confict. I apologize for the jabs I took at you, It won't happen again. Taxes pay your wages. the owners of the company i work for pay mine. I think teachers should get as much as a district can afford without short cutting kids. When I see your union reps in the paper complaing about this and that and that there is going to be job actions that will affect kids that just happens to irritate me when I believe that teachers are not treated that badly.

Thank You everyone for your comments. Negative and Positive. Have a wonderful Thanksgiving!

I wonder where kids learn to be rude, snotty and disrespectful. Reading some of these comments, I wonder no more. Again, keep the finger pointing and posturing out of the classrooms and away from the students.

stupidisasstupiddoes: You are obviously on this post to create conflict. No it is not about inservice days! You asked why we had so many Monday's/Friday's off. I answered your question. Inservice, we are asking for relevant inservice and less of them. Not to mention other important things such as pay,insurance etc. What is your profession? Please let me know so I can pick it apart!!!!

rew1975, do not get upset with stupidisasstupiddoes, he is clearly very upset with the fact that teachers have more compasion than he does. I dont think you are asking to much, I think you are asking to little for what you do. I would hope that my children would go into your profession, because our country needs more compasionate, loving people, who care about others. Clearly GM is more important to him than the future of our children and I support you with everything you do for our community. And I would hope that others will do the same. It is very admirable to be a teacher, especially to high school students because they can be rude, snotty, and disrespectful it takes a lot to put up with that day in and day out. Good for you, Im glad that we have teachers who support OUR students. I am glad that my children will have teachers like you, as well as very thankful.

Inservice days are all you are ticked about. Is that really what this is all about? I find that hard to believe. You mean to tell me that there is going to be job actions against kids because of inservice days. Give me a break. I thought it was about money. Heck go ahead and short cut a kid for your inservice days.

stupidisasstupiddoes: Once again, if you had been paying attention, the teachers union is asking to not have so many inservice days. And on the days they have inservice they are asking that it be relevant to the content area in which they teach. As for teaching contracts/salaries and making that information public, it already is!

I am not bashing what the teachers are doing inside the classroom. I think teachers are very important, I have many many people who are close to me that are teachers. I know how many hours a teacher puts in. I know what they go through every day. I just do not agree that they are being treated badly. If you were to see the salary/benefits that teachers get most people would agree. The WRS is just unbelievable. Teachers are well taken care of both while they are working and when they retire.

dont worry about what stupidisasstupiddoes says, obviously he is very uneduacted, and clearly he did not take the time to understand how important education is, I for one and very grateful for what the teachers in janesville have taught me and now are teaching my children, I will support the teachers every step of the way..... and for the record teachers do care very much for the children they teach. I am 25 and have an 8 year old daughter, do the math I was 16 when I got pregant, make all the judgemental comments you want, I continued my education because I had teachers as well has parents who supported me and without my teachers I would have been lost. My teachers did not judge they were compasionate, caring and above all supportive. They do care about what happens to the students they teach if they didn't do you honestly think that would have chose to go into a profession that is not going to make them rich, I think not!!!

Ok you got me I didn't know that but since you brought it up why do you get so many days off. Heck you get today off and then 2 or more days off next week? As far as the 14 hours of conferences isn't that part of your contract? Heck I bet there isn't many months in the 9 you work a year that there isn't at least 1 week that you do not have to work on a monday or a friday. On top of that how many sick days do you get a year? 7, 10, 14. Tell me that once you have banked as many as you can for the year that they aren't used up. If you look at ost school teacher attendance most sick days are used up in the months between march and June. I am sorry I think you guys are doing a difficult job. I think you are great people but to complain about your situation is ridiculous. I still think that the whole contract should be printed in the paper and then see how much support there is in the community for any more referendums. I bet at least 75% of a schools budget is for salaries and benefits

stupidisasstupiddoes: If you actually knew what was happening with in the school system you would realize that middle school and high school teachers had parent teacher conferences for 14 hours on Wed. and Thurs. We have Fri. the 16th off. What comment now teachers do not deserve time off.

If you have a college degree that means that you worked your butt off to get through and graduate from college, therefore I do not think it is a slap in the face for OUR educators of OUR children which are OUR future to ask for more money, come on now, everybody was supposed to honk and support the union when GM went on strike, and everybody knows what happened to PRIME TIME PIZZA when they didnt "donate" a pizza to the workers who CHOSE to work at GM it is the same thing. Come on now, I would hope that our educators would be more important to us than GM workers because without them who is going to TEACH our future? I support the Janesville Teachers every step of the way and I would be glad to pay more taxes for them to live better, you bet I would, I am not ashamed to say that, and for anyone who disagrees with me.....I dont care this is my opinion, and I for one am glad that I was educated by the teachers in Janesville about my rights, as well as the costitution which gives me the right to speak my opinion. Thanks again for all the hard work to the teachers, who chose to go into a noble profession.

rew1975 are you working today? This must be your prep period and you are using the schools computer to post something at 8:33am on a Friday. Is this part of Job actions?

What is disturbing about this is that the JEA assumes that it is their right to use the students in the school district as a "bargaining chip" in the negotiations. Keep it out of the classrooms and away from the students.

Wish I was entitled to a 3.8% raise every year. I know that the majority of that probably goes toward insurance but you are not alone on that so quit acting like it. Everyones insurance is going up. Heck mine just went up 30%.

Hmm.. Mabe the argument should not be here.. Maybe we should all go to madison and complain up there. Isn't all this really thier fault...The people we have elected

First of all professional unions and Labor unions are 2 totally different things IMO. Secondlly I think that a state union job is a totally different ballgame. Like I said before there is no one in a school district pocketing millions in profits whereas GM execs get huge bonuses. They are treated very well for what they do for, yes 180 or 190 days. I am salarie so I do not get overtime either. I know what it is like to work over 8 hours a day. Many people in the private sector do so the complaint about working so many hours and not getting paid does not fly. It is a salarie position. Just because someone has a huge college degree does not give them the right to act like they are better than anyone else and deserve more when thier wages are payed by the taxpayer IMO. How many people paying the teachers wages with thier taxes have college degrees. I still say acting like this is a slap in the face to the community and is Disgusting!

momof5, I apologize for my misrepresentation of the word there vs. their. I was not an English major. As for being resentful towards the teaching profession. This is not the case, I enjoy working with students and families. I do not enjoy the constant political rhetoric and teacher bashing that comes with the profession. And yes we can spread out our 9 month school income for 12 months. As I posted earlier take your 9 month salary/wage and spread that out for 12 months. I would be fine with working June,July and August. However it is my guess that the public believes that we should do this for free. Teachers are only asking for a fair contract. Can we at least get the cost of living increase? Maybe this would help pay for the high co-pays of our health insurance and continued education cost.

I have 3 children, two of which are in school, my 8 year old daughter's teacher from last year as well as her teacher from this year both have part time jobs, and tell me this is not a messed up situation. Come on now, they are educators, they hold bachelor degrees for crying out loud, but yet our community was so up in arms about the GM strike come on now this is a disgusting thought!!!! Agree or don't agree!!!

Ok, "Stupid" (hey- your handle, not a jab)

Just how would you suggest the teachers make their displeasure known? What choices do they have under the circumstances. They are not proposing anything that would violate their contract - simply cutting out all the "extras" that currently do on a voluntary basis. How many things do you do for your employer without any extra compensation? Do you stay at your job for hours in the evenings and weekends without any pay? You, and others, keep claiming that teachers only work 8 hours a day for 190 days a year...but when they actually talk about working those hours you start complaining about how they are hurting the kids! You can't have it both ways.

Teachers are highly trained, well-educated, dedicated professionals who have chosen a career of service. Yes, they knew going in that they would never get rich on the job -but that doesn't give the Board or the community the right to gut their pay or benefits. The whole "you chose your job - if you don't like it - leave!" argument is lame. Try that one with a UAW member, some time.

Sometimes this community sickens me. When the UAW is on strike - everyone chips in and supports them. When the JEA complains - everyone slams them. Good teaching jobs attract good workers and families to the community the same as good UAW jobs. Good pay for teachers means more money in the economy just the same as good pay for UAW jobs. We pay for those good teachers with our taxes. We pay for those good UAW jobs when we buy a GM vehicle. Time for the unions to band together and realize this is all about building better Janesville.

Excellent points on both side of this since my first "disgusting" post. I still do not understand why teachers are complaining. Is it the taxpayers fault that teachers have student loans, NO! I have Student loans and don't complain about it. I make aboout the same as a teacher with 7 years experience but work all year have to pay into my 401k and also pay alot for my crappy insurance. Whatever happened to people just being happy to have a job. I tell you what if you don't like it go somewhere else. I guarantee many of these teachers will not find another one because school districts cannot afford to pay a teacher with that many years experience. You chose the profession. You are all acting like the school board is a bunch of CEO's of some huge company pocketing millions in bonuses. That is about as far from the truth as possible. Being on a school board is more of a thankless job than any teaching position out there. Board members have to be there for the taxpayers, teachers, support staff, administration and most importantly the kids. With the money available comming in from the state it is impossible to make everyone happy. You are damned if you do and damned if you don't. My hats off the the janesville school board for the job they have done so far with this contract. I still say that these or any other job actions against kids is disgusting!

Anybody who doesn't see this as the board's fault is a ninnie. Firs, I would like to give applause to the Local 95 for getting living wages for the GM workers. I am not slamming GM in any way- they make a competitive wage and work hard. This is only to put this issue in some perspective. In a recent study, GM workers make more money and potentially have more days off (paid leave) than teachers and no college degree is needed. When they work overtime they get paid. When teachers work overtime they get whining from the community.

My wife is a teacher in the district and I'm ashamed that she is in a union that is attempting things like this. Yes she is unhappy about the situation but she doesn't take it out on the kids. There is not one child that does not deserve a letter of reccomendation because you're not getting paid as you expected. I doubt it is actually part of your job description to write these letters. Isn't that more of a personal act done out of respect and kindness to the students. It doesn't get much lower than that.

The better more thoughtful teachers throughout the district will still write the letters and be there for the kids, as they should. Leave the children out of the middle of this!

Just an FYI, a teacher's prep hour can't be used as a lunch (or isn't supposed to be). It is to be used to make phone calls to parents, complete paperwork, grade papers, and complete other tasks that are necessary as a teacher. Also, try as a first year teacher to work from 7:45 to 3:45(a contracted day) and have all papers graded, lesson plans done, phone calls made, and all the other necessary work done. It doesn't happen!!!! It does get a little easier as time goes on, but it still doesn't happen!! I know this and I am not complaining about it, but a lot of people don't seem to understand what a teacher's job really involves. It is just sad that the students are the ones who are in the middle of this and are affected the most.

rew1975:

1-It seems to me that you do not like being a teacher and are resentful.

2-The over 100k in student loans you have racked up has not taught you the correct use of their versus there.

3-Teaches do not get an hour lunch. If you include their prep hour, which they get atleast 1, they actually get much longer for lunch and free time than the average worker.

4-Teachers have the choice to spread their school year income out so that they still receive income over the summer.

5-We all have to deal with higher taxes and either less pay at work or a reduction in benefits. This issue is not exclusive to the teaching profession, please do not pretend that it is as that is just a gross misinterpretation of reality and not fair to the rest of us non-teachers.

6-I think what everyone is so outraged about is the EITHER side is so willing to put our children (which includes many children of educators and school district employees) in the middle of this battle. I'm a nurse, and I guarantee you that when our union negotiations break down, the last thing either side would allow is patient care being compromised or sacrificed.

It's not about teachers having it so great or passing judgement. It's about the JEA AND the SDJ getting their heads out of the sand and negotiating a contract that is fair and acceptable to everyone: especially their students!!!!! I think anyone here would be hard pressed to argue that these limitations set by the JEA are in the students' best interest. So, yes, shame on the JEA for suggesting it. And, shame on the SDJ for letting things get to that point.

Neither side is without culpability.

JvlResident- First of all teachers do not get and hour lunch. They are given 30 min. Second of all teachers are unemployed for three months out of the year. I would like to see you spread your income for 9 months over a 12 month period. I live in a household of two teachers. Teaching experience for each is 7 years. Our families were not wealthy so they could not help with college tuition. Upon completion of our bachelor degrees we had 85000 dollars in student loan debt between the two of us. Teachers are required to continue there education. We next attended classes to receive our master's degree. This at a cost of 28000 for two master's degrees. We are now at 113000. This is 700 dollars a month for 30 years. As a couple we make 85000 dollars a year. Throw in a family a mortgage,utilities and life and there is not a lot left over. I appreciate everyone's comments in this post. However the reality of an educator is not always what people may think. We to are tax payers, we are being penalized for going into a noble profession twice. We pay higher taxes for referendums(which were needed)and we take a pay cut. How many people after working 40 hours are paid overtime? Teachers volunteer there time after hours and are not compensated at all. I would like to see you go to your job and work for free. If teachers have it so great by all means go and get your degree and become one.

I just did a little math. I agree teachers are under appreciated and with a degree the starting pay is not great. But if you assume a STARTING teacher makes $30,000 and works 185 days. (For the MOST part, no nights or weekends unless chosen) Works 8 hours a day (7am-4pm with 1 hour lunch) they would START at $20.27/hour. Not bad now, and add in the HUGE benefit package and tell me you will not send in art work for an art student? I may now regret to stand behind you in voting YES for a referendum to help you more effectively teach! Wake up everyone is getting a bill for there benefit packages.

Do you know how hard it would be to look a student in the face and tell them "sorry, I can't write you a letter of recommendation because it isn't in my contract"!!! I was asked by a former student this past summer to write a letter of recommendation and I was honored...I also was no longer teaching for the school district. I taught for the Janesville School District last year, and yes it was the hardest job I have ever had and no amount of schooling prepared me to face what I was faced with. I now work in a different industry making $12.00 per hour and I take home more each paycheck than I did when I was teaching (the first year teacher pay rate was $31,165 last year). (I am not saying I didn't like teaching, the Janesville School District didn't work out for me) Teachers have excellent healthcare and retirement benefits. I do feel that teachers deserve more, but I don't feel it should be done at the cost of the students!!!! The students is why teachers have jobs in the first place!!!!!

The teachers act like Teamsters-wanna be's and the kids get screwed. That's nice. The JEA should just shut up and teach.

ps. I say warrant the teachers requests to not want to attend field trips that run too late and warrant the not marching in a parade (it is just a parade!!) But talk with teachers on a deeper level about why they want to leave the art and advising, and find out what can be done to acknowledge that they keep on doing what they are doing on a high level to help children in school.

I think a proposal like this is what every school district needs. Even if no action is taken to remove these teacher job actions or to add a limit to what can be done, just the very mention of it makes the public cry out of how important it is for us to have these. Maybe if the majority of people and teachers lose these actions that impact people, we will all be better off because we will realize just how important they were in the first place. The important actions are the that ones will be fought for, and those are the ones that will stay. In reality, is it so bad that teachers want to get off from field trips to travel home to their family. or maybe these same teachers on the field trips are the ones doing the advising after school some days? Even if these actions are taken, worthwhile teachers will find a way to impact a child's life through a program such as submitting artwork and will fight to have important stuff for both sides be met. I agree with justsome1here and rpopian, to the extent that the important stuff that does impact a loved ones life should stay with the teachers responsibility. If dropping programs that are important to their students to make a point is more important, then maybe the problem is indeed rooted at a much deeper level.

Seabee:

Did you just say that and mean it? I am certainly hoping that was tongue in cheek. Would you expect the same of Firefighters? Police Officers? Elected officials? Great idea, let's pay them what the average taxpayer makes, yet expect them to have much greater educational requirements than what the average taxpayer has. That would be real good for our future (our kids). Good one. Ha Ha Ha

I wonder if the teachers would accept a rate of pay equal to the average income of the taxpayers from which their salaries are derived.

It doesn't make sense. Maybe you should read the article again and think about it. Maybe then you might get a clue. But in your ignorance you bring up the reason why so many people are angry with the teachers. They are uninformed. In these posts, I've seen the teachers blamed for the contract impasse. Not one person has asked what is the district doing besides stonewalling and threatening arbitration.
It doesn't seem to me that they are asking for anything more than most contract workers ask for. Input into in-service management, a modest pay increase,and tuition reimbursement.
Time is on the side of the district. The longer they wait, the more the teachers will have to apply pressure through job actions. The district will then use those job actions to build public protest against the teachers. Which from these posts, you've already fallen for.
Look, I'm sure you all like to think that we have a strong educational system here. Wisconsin ranks 28th in the nation in average teacher pay and LAST IN PAY FOR NEW TEACHERS. There are major problems with the states compliance of the "No Child Left Behind" law.
There are accusations that the state is "dumbing down" it's testing and requirements in order to receive funding.
Look at the administration costs of this district. Look at what the people at the district administration actually do and what they get paid versus teachers and you will truly be "disgusted".

justsome1here:
You get an "A" for analogy attempt, but an C- for comparison. I'm pretty sure that a kid's life doesn't hang in the balance if he doesn't get that recommendation. I'm also sure that even though that kid may believe that his young artistic life may just be over if his/her piece of art doesn't make it to the art show, it is NOT even in the same analogy universe as your comparison.

It wasn't intended to be an argument. Think about it for a while and then maybe you will get it.

C'mon that's a stupid argument. Nobody's endangering the safety of the students by not writing a letter of recommendation. What we're talking about is teachers following the contract wording. Here's a solution, have the administrators, who are paid more and do less, write letters of recommendation, do hallway and lunchroom patrol and stay after for games and clubs. Maybe then the district would realize they have been getting more than what they're paying for for a long time now.

What if you or someone you loved was on an operating table and in the middle of the surgery the surgical assistants informed the surgeons that they no longer would be able to assist beacause they were participating in "job actions" to pressure the hopital board of directors into giving them more affordable health care and higher pay, etc. Would you be as supportive of them and say "if someone has to suffer to get their needs met, than so be it" ?

Assuming you're using "sleeping on the couch," as some kind of metaphor, you prove teachers are important and the job actions they suggest are necessary. Unlike the tired parent who can ignore the child's distress- a teacher is legally obligated to make a report. Does this make a teacher a better person? I don't know, but it does give them a pretty stressful job which deserves adequate compensation.

I said the actions are disgusting not teachers. How is a teacher any better than the parent asleep on the couch while thier child cuts themselves by short cutting a kids future by these actions. How are these actions going to help the 15 year old kid getting beat up by the parents. You chose the profession, quit complaining. Every time the contract comes up all we hear is complaining. Wasn't there just a huge referendum passed last year and now to slap the taxpayer in the face with job actions towards the kids is just plan old disgusting!

Try doing what teachers do… even for just a week. You probably wouldn’t be able to handle it. You don't always realize just how much they do in a day, much less a week. You probably don’t think about the teacher that has to find a way to explain to a fifteen-year-old girl that it’s not normal and ok for her parents to hit her every day, and try to convince her that it IS possible to not turn out like that. Find a way to tell the 1st grader that cut her hand while making dinner because her mom was “sleeping” on the couch and her little brother was hungry that she should not have to do that. You try to adapt a computer lesson to accommodate the kid who has a deformed hand. You try to teach seven different courses in a single day, reminding a dozen kids that they have missing work, supervise the hallways between each of those classes, eat your lunch in your classroom in five minutes because a student is coming in to make up a test, spend your entire 45 minutes of prep time helping the kids who are failing since their parents feel you are not doing enough to help them succeed, go coach a practice for three hours after school, oh, and don’t forget that technology committee meeting that your administrator asked you to be a part of, then go home and make dinner for the family and then find time to grade the homework from the previous day for those seven different courses. Also, every teacher is required to continue education – six credits every five years – and VERY few school districts assist teachers in paying for those credits.

You'll find that just about any teacher you encounter is going WAY above and beyond anything their contract states every single day. Many are volunteering their time after school to help students, advising groups, or coaching a sport. This extends their 8-hour day – which I’m guessing you normally work and then go home – to an 11-12 hour day. Then most spend endless hours during the summer preparing their classrooms and curriculum for the upcoming school year, while spending hundreds of their own dollars on supplies the district doesn’t have the budget to provide. Go ahead and calculate that hourly wage with the contract you want to see printed. You’ll find a teacher makes much less than you realize. Maybe by making the community aware of just how much they do for every kid that walks through the doors, people will realize that teachers are not asking too much to get paid a little bit more.

What if we posted the benefits of the police chief or the city manager. While we're at, the GM Plant Manager, the fire fighters, regular joe GM plant workers? Teachers go into a battle front on a daily basis trying to provide education to the children they teach. Teachers are professionals, many with advanced degrees in their field of expertise. They do not get paid as well as people with like education- they deserve a few perks here and there, like affordable health insurance, a good pension after they retire. What is disgusting is your lack of understanding of the issue. Teachers owe their students a classroom experience that inspires and cultivates learning and understanding of a complex and ever changing world- they do not owe them a letter of recommendation for National Honor Society. If a kid is going for NHS good teachers likely had much to do with he or she getting there. These suggested actions simply seek to place a determinate value on the many aspects of a teacher's job that are not measured by salary.

What about the kid's needs?
I still say this is disgusting! I think that if the contract was published in the local paper and people were to really see what benefits/pay teachers get they would be as disgusted as I am at these kind of actions.

Teachers everywhere deserve a pay raise, not just in Janesville. If not signing letters of recommendation, staying late for extra-curricular activities, or submitting artwork does anything, it reminds us of the value of good, hardworking teachers and that we need individuals who are willing to go the extra mile to provide education and opportunity to our children. Unfortunately, as much as teaching is a calling, it is also profession -a job- even lazy teachers who get a whole summer off deserve a decent wage for a hard day of work (the summer where they often teach summer school, go to seminars, and spend a good share of their time still working). Janesville is lucky to have a good school system and the only thing disgusting about the teacher's needs is that they have not been met.

This is disgusting!

I understand that teachers need to stand up to the school district for FAIR contracts, but not at the expense of students learning. By not submitting artwork to art shows or writing letters of recommendation for students, teachers are ignoring their fundamental purpose- helping students learn and become successful adults. I'm all for teachers fighting for what they believe in, but if that's more important than the success of their student's, then maybe the real problem is much deeper. I truly hope that the teachers in Janesville are able to aim their efforts in the right direction without taking away from the students.