unions are institutions looking after themselves. read "looking after number one" by winger. try the library.

tbs123 are you a stocker? trac

good post.see where you're coming from now.just thought you were a woody hater in general.

Get a clue... I did leave. Please re-read my posts and figure that out. I spent over a decade of my life at Woodman's and wish I would have left long before I did. But now I still care about many of the people who are still working there. I guess that's my big problem... I care about others and still empathize with them. I wish them all well. I just feel that this is a big corporate greed issue and fear that if Phil gets what he wants and the union is voted out, there will be no more full time employees and no more millionaires in the future of the stores. Only part timers. That is the purpose of the EO weekenders working only 24 max hours per week. They can't be in ESOP then... not enough hours. And they aren't covered by FMLA laws either. Part timers are way more economical for employers. And trust me, that is where they are headed without a union.

tbs123-what are you talking about? if you don't like woody's then leave.like you said,there is life after woody's.it's nit-picking people,like you, that mess up the whole works.the rest of us want to (blindly)follow phil to the million dollar club.by the way, it was an esot before an esop. yes we do work hard,one point you got right,but not for our esop.we pay NOTHING for that.it's for our hourly wage.i know the ones who have a million in stock are ageeing

About unions: I'm not necessarily pro-union, but I'll tell you an experience I had driving truck for a quite lucrative company that was non-union..The company "provided" health insurance, or so it seemed until you actually needed them to pay something..They had all the fancy little "provider" books and you could go to the "preferred providers" and cross all the T's and dot all the I's and they would REFUSE to pay ANYTHING, EVER...Everyone that worked there was getting their bills turned in to collectors by the doctors because of this and lots of credit ratings were damaged..Company didn't care.
The dangerous and STUPID practices of this company were know to anyone that watched what was going on.
They WAY overloaded forklifts while lifting WAY too high.
I watched as a lift almost tip over because of this and management couldn't care less as they were only interested in their pass times while making money hand over fist.

How they never got sued is a mystery..They didn't that I know of.

I'm not saying anything about Woodmans, but this place NEEDED a union.

So, no, I don't think unions are "obsolete".

Unions are not for everybody-for some people they work-but the data shows that the vast majority of working public does not belong to a union. The data shows that 90-93% of employees do not belong to a union and yet today there is record employment.

If Woodman employees want a union, some probably do, let the employees decide. Maybe the majority is silent and most want a union-maybe the majority think the union is stealing from the rank and file and want to disband.

Let them vote!

Too many unionists characterize employers as evil people who must be beaten. They complain that people like Phil Woodman get rich at the expense of workers. Where were these envious complainers when this business was started? Who took all the risks to develop this concern? How does anyone know how much money Woodman keeps for himself? He owns the place, he did the work to build it up, he has every right to keep as much of the legal profit as he wants and he doesn’t have to answer to anyone for it. Calling him greedy is like the pot calling the kettle black, since all you are really saying is that you want to take what he has for yourself. No one has the right to confiscate another’s legally acquired property. Workers have the right to aspire to excel as well. The best working conditions are found when you work for yourself. If you can’t, or won’t, start your own business, then the only control you have is to choose for whom you will work. If Woodman’s doesn’t compensate well enough, find an employer that will. Employers compete for employees as well as customers. If employers pay too little, employees leave and customers soon follow, if they pay too much, prices rise too high and customers go elsewhere (a concept that unionists ignore at their own peril). If you can’t get enough compensation anywhere else, then maybe a little self improvement is in order.

no one is stuck in a place. Everyone has bills and responsibilites to pay for, thats life. If Woodmans was such a bad place to work and Phil is so mean. Why do peolpe stay so long and why is there so many millonares working there. Every job has something in it that people don't like. We all choose our own happiness, if you're not happy then its time to move on.

as I said before, Phil doesn't just GIVE you this money. it is earned.... and it's not necessarily true that if you do your job and don't miss much work you have nothing to worry about. if you disagree with management or make people aware of their rights and encourage them to stand up for their rights, then maybe you will be on a fast track to a demotion and unbearable treatment from all your co-workers because they are afraid to talk to you anymore for fear that they will be next in the demotion line. been there done that... but I was smart enough to stand up for myself and take their arrogant management to task for that treatment. no, Phil doesn't force people to work there, but many are stuck there because they have families, bills, responsibilities, and can't see that there is a life they can have even if they give up their ESOP and move on to a different job.

Many of the current labor laws came into effect because of unions. People are walking by the word "protect".
These labor laws are easily removed without some organized group watching over them.
There are two sides to labor laws, those who want them (workers) and those who don't (business owners)
Remove one from the debate and the other will win.

I agree with JCK no one is making you work there. If you don't like what Phil gives you get out. He's not holding you there and I'm sure there's plenty of other people who would love such a great job. There is about 49 millionares working at Woodmans. So don't tell me that Phil is not generous. None of that money came from the union. If you are a good worker, do your job, and don't miss to much work you have nothing to worry about. People in today society need to learn to be thankful for what they have. The US is going into a recession.

I agree with JCK no one is making you work there. If you don't like what Phil gives you get out. He's not holding you there and I'm sure there's plenty of other people who would love such a great job. There is about 49 millionares working at Woodmans. So don't tell me that Phil is not generous. None of that money came from the union. If you are a good worker, do your job, and don't miss to much work you have nothing to worry about.

Yooper: I am not trying to be rude, but it IS just MY opinion of the union at Lear and I see know reason to clarify. Besides, you probably already know who's wife this is by the username.

Is there someone or something that forces people to work at Woodmans against their will? Perhaps Phil has comprimising photos of them.

Oh how I cringe when I read some of these comments posted.... First of all, Phil doesn't give you bonuses and your ESOP...NOT ESOT... that is Employee Stock Ownership Program. You EARN it. I can't believe that the workers there think he is such a generous guy. You all work very hard for every penny you earn, whether it is your hourly wage, your insurance benefits, or your dividends from your ESOP. Phil gets a lot of payoff for having the business be classified as Employee Owned. As with anything, the big businessman gets his first and then he lets a little bit trickle down. You all need to open your eyes and not be blindly led by Phil OR the union. Remember, you should be working to live and not living to work. Phil could move this company into the 21st century, but chooses to keep things as they are. That is so that the few fat cats in the corporate office can keep the lifestyle they have, and the rest of the uneducated people that work there can keep his billion dollar corporation raking in the big bucks for the upper management. The hardest workers are those in the store. Their bodies are wrecked from years of heavy lifting and standing on their feet for 8-10 hours with non-stop movement. Can you name a business with 900 employees that still HANDWRITES schedules??? A computer program could do that job in a fraction of the time it takes to do it the way they do now!!! And it could be a much better place to work if you didn't have to give up everything in your life to keep a job where you only know your schedule 4 days in advance. There is life after Woodman's, and it is your choice to make. At Woodman's there is no dignity, respect, or empathy coming from any management. All they care about is those items per minute coming down the counter. Good luck and educate yourselves. Whether it be on unions, employee owned corporations, or family medical leaves. Most people don't know their rights, and they should find them out before they just stand by and watch as they lose their dignity and maybe even their job. Knowledge is power and you all have to be your own advocate...especially if the union gets voted out. Then you are on your own, and if you believe everything that's told to you without independent confirmation, you will become a victim in Phil's quest for money and power.

Phil Woodman is not a bad person. I wish people would stop bashing him. I beleive alot of people want what he has done. He gives his employees wonderful benefits. The retirement is awesome, insurance is out of this world, and bonuses are wonderful. The union had a pension for the employees, but they couldn't control it and lost it. They also used to have insurance through the union, but Phil said trust me I can give you better insurance for less. I'm sure glad I trusted him then. I will keep on trusting him. If I was the union and had alot of money on the line in union dues I probably would fight and delay as long as they are. We deserve a right to vote just like when we vote for a president.

If the Fatcat managers and supervisors stayed out of the union business.. this would not be an issue. corporate greed at its finest. management, supervisors get rich.. workers get poor. you watch.. after the union is out.. phil will make sure no employee lasts more than 5 yrs. with the company.. no esot payed out.. phil gets richer. The union is for the workers.. keep it.

It was the employees themselves that want to decertify the union, They said it was useless. So get your facts straight.

It's hard for lifelong union members to face the fact that unionism's time is past. The reasons unions came into existence have been displaced by labor laws at the state and federal level. The 40 hour work week, time and a half for overtime, age, sex and racial discrimination, and child labor are things which made unions necessary at one time. The state and federal government have strict regulations covering these areas, and a lot more

REALLY somebody better tell the Government that Wal-mart is breaking the law everyday.
Unions are needed more than ever with corporate greed and globalization.
to the poster complaining about the union at woodmans I ask how involved were you? I ask that because the "union" is not the elected bargaining committee it is the members represented. The chain is only as strong as it's weakest link right? 900 voices could be hear loud and clear if united. Then again the silence of 900 is deafing. Keep the faith brothers and sisters.

Without a union, people can have wages decreased, have unfair work practices done to them with the only action being getting a lawyer, and much more can be stripped away from employees.

Unions are necessary, especially with the difficult times we are facing as a nation. Yeah, some unions may have their faults, just like businesses have their faults, but doing away with unions is like doing away with someone who will stand up for you when unfair practices occur.

Unions need strong leaders and even stronger employees.

Is it wise to get rid of a union? No. They protect your rights.

Just a thought for you all: Read over the history of unions, talk with your union leader and union employees about things that need change, and then make sure the union will not crumble.

Ignore others who bash unions, and do what you have to do to keep the union strong. Make a commitment to your union and stand strong with it. You will continue to reap rewards of it in the future. And most of all, good luck!

My hopes is that Woodman's continues to have a union, because without it, they might just turn into Wal-Mart. And you DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT want to have to fend the unfair practices of a company on your own.

Remember John Dickinson's "The Liberty Song," that phrased the words, "...By uniting we stand, by dividing we fall."

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_we_s...)

As a past employee of Seneca foods I can attest that UFCW union totally sucks compared to the other union I have belonged to. That being UAW. Although I did not work at GM and was definitly not treated as well as I would have been.UFCW would not stand along side of you let alone behind you. Good luck to all Woodman employees. And yes Phil is a heck of a guy but your interest is not always his.

It's hard for lifelong union members to face the fact that unionism's time is past. The reasons unions came into existence have been displaced by labor laws at the state and federal level. The 40 hour work week, time and a half for overtime, age, sex and racial discrimination, and child labor are things which made unions necessary at one time. The state and federal government have strict regulations covering these areas, and a lot more. Unions are reduced to maintaining and increasing uncompetitive wages and benefits at the risk of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs, their employers. As well as maintaining animosity between employers and employees to sustain the allusion that unions are needed to protect members. Unions bemoan the loss of union jobs throughout the country, blaming union busting, unfair foreign competition, republicans, and just about everything else under the sun but take no responsibility themselves. The American auto industry is on life support. It makes inferior products that are priced higher than the competition and lose money on every sale. Chrysler was bought by a strong foreign auto maker some years ago and has now been dumped before it drags its owner down with it. GM and Ford flirted with the idea of merging, but realized that they both have the same problem and can’t help each other. That problem is a union contract that will destroy the American auto makers like it destroyed the American steel industry. Yes, the union has been very good for its members, the ones that are still there. How many union workers were employed by GM 20 years ago? 40 years ago? Just a fraction of those jobs remain and that number shrinks almost daily.

Mommyopes, please be more specific about your union bashing of unit 11(Lear).

Gone are the days where workers at a company united in a single voluntary unit to address issues of pay, benefits and working conditions. Today a single union may represent tens of thousands of dues-paying workers at many various companies throughout the nation. And just where does all that money go?

And just as the perception exists that the only people who really get rich in class-action lawsuits filed in federal court are the lawyers, the perception exists that the only people who really get rich from the payment of union dues are those who work for the unions.

Unions today are perceived to be the very thing they claim to oppose: Top heavy and heavy handed rich corporate monstrosities that exists for the sole purpose to simply to feed itself and its rich corporate top brass at the expense of its dues paying members.

The perception is that while unions “claim” to work for better pay and benefits for its blue-collar working members, the blue-collar working class is struggling to pay bills while the president and other higher-ups of the union uses those dues to enjoy life and live the lifestyle of the Rich and Famous.

Most people are smart — and logical. They may work for and get a paycheck from one “rich corporation.” And they don’t necessarily want to join another huge “rich corporation” just because that “rich corporation” is a union — and pay dues if all those dues do is get them token raises/benefits in their low-paying jobs while the leader of the union uses those dues to live a — hypocritical? — lifestyle of the Rich and Famous most union due-paying members will never see.

shockey52-darn right.we pay nothing for our pot of gold,and pay the union a pot of gold for nothing.

the employees are where they are today because of the generousity of Phil Woodman. He gives the employees bonuses that the union has no control of. The esot bonus Phil gives out he does from the goodness of his heart. By no means does he have to do this. it;s another way he pays for your retirement. He pays for the employees ins, retirement, etc. The employees pays for nothing. It's part of their package that Phil gives them. The union has nothing to do with any of that, if they did Woodmans would go broke...

i really hope i never have to say i told you so!!!!

well,we are the employees.we are happy with the leadership,phil is a very smart business man.we are unhappy with the union,and hopefully we'll ban together and kick them out.i hope our wishes do come true,and i thank you for your support.

The employees ARE the union.
If you are unhappy with the leadership,band together and vote them out.
Careful what you wish for....you might get it.

employees do the math.you pay the union monthly,for nothing more than a yearly newsletter.(that i toss before even opening).then there's woodmans(employee owned)supermarket.who made it employee owned?not the union.that would be phil.how much do you contribute to the employee stock ownership trust a year?answer-absolutley nothing.before you decide union or no union,take out your esot report and take a real good look at it.who's really on our side? woodmans hands down?employees want to vote?so let us vote!!!!!!!!!!!

The truth is, Woodmans will be out of business
soon without major concessios from the union.

Food prices and shipping have probably destroyed any margin, and Walmart will soon destroy them, and every other grocery store in the U.S. Noone can compete with thier low worker cost, strength in getting low prices from suppliers, and economies of scale.

My guess is Union did not want to gve up workers or beneits, so Woodmans had to try another route.

The only thing that can help, and actually help us all is if everyone in Janesville, beloit, madison, quit going to walmart. But then humans have to choose quality over price, which unfortunately will never happen.

Were doomed

I am proud to shop at woodmans. I know the employees have better wages, insurance and pensions than any other food store in the area. the prices at woodmans are unmatched in this area, even by walmart.
Woodmans is this way because of the union! Without the union Willard Woodman and family would be sitting like the Sam Walton family. Wealthy while their employees are encouraged to apply for Badger care (for insurance) and work second jobs to make ends meet.
If you are woodmans employee air your greviences with your union, not under a sudo username in the local paper. Unions have a back bone, you should too!

I hope that the truth comes out and the proper people are punished. I have heard of one certain Janesville employee offering $30 for a signature on the petition to get rid of the union. I have no doubt that something like that could be going on. I hope the NLRB finds Woodman's in violation and knocks Phil Woodman down a few pegs...

Let the employees vote. Why stall? This is a complete waste of union money. Money that the union members have taken out of their paychecks. If they want the union then they will vote for it.

yep even a so so union is still better than none at all.. good luck woodmans employees..

Or the union at Lear

sounds like our union at GM

if you are having trouble with the union leadership, then you need to contact someone at state or national union office, some of these people could be on the companies side, they can be removed from there posts and in essence blackballed from ever being in the union again, contact the main union office now!!!!

bigbaddad-
The comments you make may concern certain people, but at Woodmans, employess are always getting their hours cut, are discplined, demoted, etc, and where was the union then....
The union didn't do a thing to help them out then, what makes you think they will help them later...

1st of all I would like to say, if supervisors aren't allowed to vote sign petitions, etc., then WHY is the union taking out dues. If the union takes out dues then they should be allowed all the privileges the rest of the union people.
2nd, employes of Woodmans have asked the union people at the store questions, and all they do is sidestep the issues they were asked, & then harrass them later. Several questions were asked about if something happens are they going to be there to help them when they call or will they put them off, which is a very good question because it was one of their concerns which happened in the past. All they did was side step the question, and talked about something else. Now they are trying to come up with other concerns about Woodmans that aren't true just to keep the employees from voting.All the employees want to do is vote. They want to get along with their lives. All the union has done so far is to create friction with the employees,& put a wedge between them and the employees. Alot of the employees that were pro union has had second thoughts about the union because of all the shady attempts to stop this vote.

if you have a union dont give it up for god sakes, i dont care what kind of promises someone may have made, better wages or what have you, usually its just a ploy to get union out, then all hell breaks loose,firings, threats, etc. and maybe even less wages and benifits, who knows what will happen when there is no protection!!!!!