and why doesn't anyone do a study to discover the "reality" of TV causing mental illness?

ADD/ADHD, Depression and other social/mental disorders are a direct result of sitting in front of the television from birth on, for many children.

A person can make statistics and studies say whatever is is they want them to say...I still am convinced that marijuana is not harmful to the mature adult mind.

hannah the only thing that article PROVES is that there is more THC in marijuana today than previous. uncle sam himself acknowledges the medical benefits of THC, google Marinol, so all this story proves is that there is more medicine in pot than there use to be. plus that means i have to inhale less smoke for same results. part of the problem with society being 'ignorant' to the reality of pot is they read these articles and assume the worst of everything. nevermind these reports come from the white house, not the most trusting of sources for ANY info....

That article is actually fairly well balanced. One recent study shows that using marijuana definitely increasing your chances of being diagnosed with a serious mental illness. What are the solid numbers? There is something like a .02% higher chance you will become psychotic! Look out! I think television probably has a higher impact!
°
Alcohol is very bad for you, but it's still legal. Marijuana is unquestionably better for you than alcohol, so why is it still illegal?

normalcitizen, thanks. I'm definitely not offended. It IS a sad situation politically here in the US...if people would spend more time trying to understand than to be understood, life would be less complicated. Have a little pow wow with the peace pipe, I say. Life just gets a little better and it's easier to see things from a new perspective!

Sadly Ms Sassy, there will always be Gov't corruption. It isn't about being angry or uptight, it is about what the politician gets for personal gain. "If you vote for my bill, then I'll vote for yours" (this way I get re-elected, or I get money for my campaign from lobbyists).

(Not trying to offend you or anything, just a comment on what a sad situation this is.)

This way of thinking is not limited to just government. Our country, and mankind, is in serious trouble.

NVgrf, LOL! That has been my premise all along! If people would just smoke a little from the "peace" pipe, there would be so many less angry, uptight people in the world...especially in government!

Love the headline. If Bush would have smoked some of that 8 pounds we wouldn't be in Iraq.

Gazette staff...shut this commentary down. Has gone way beyond relevancy.

Wait... Did that say that the Janesville police made an arrest of actual consideration. We should all feel more safe knowing that there will be less marijuana in town.

But, now what what will the college kids do when they are playing GTA4?

I was tossed out of DA by twelve dwarfs.

I might start my own AA program where apologizing to the people who caused our drinking problems isn't required.

he DID say he had hundreds of apologies to offer...could be gone for a while, I suppose...

:)

I think he's still there ms sassy

so how did your DA meeting go gazettefan? make all of those apologies? hehe

Admirable.

na. I spent my evening with my kids. I can decide when a good time to smoke is and when I should pay attention to the things I can't live without...like the love and companionship of family. I have some great kids! Happy Mother's Day, by the way, to the mothers out there in GazetteXtra land...

I don't doubt you're seeing rainbows right about now, sassy. Good for you.

btw: I think you would be very, no, EXTREMELY surprised by the representation that pot smokers around the country would bear to witness.

There is the cream of the crop and the bottom of the barrel in every crowd. Don't rule out the possibility that there is a HUGE spectrum of people in between. That spectrum, just like in a rainbow, is what makes life so colorful.

ok, gazettefan, I will leave you to your meeting of DA...
Don't forget your 12-step book, as you may need to read some sections aloud to the rest of the group...

What kind of attendance do these DA meetings garner? Or is it possible that you are just seeing doubles and triples because of your rum, and you are "the group"?

gazettefan i am honored that you would assume i'm high, as its a day off work for me, i usually would be. I haven't smoked that "demon giggle weed" yet today.. within a few hours i will though!

Then, sassy, it's a matter of what sources are credible. And that puts us back on square-one: Selective perception again overrides.

As for your claim that I've been "stereotyping", coupled with your presentation here, I might consider the possibility that you and the circle you move in are true accounts, but still not representative of the pot smoking world.

You state directly what your "truth" is without weak analogies, sad syllogisms, and false moralizing.

Now leave me alone about the dwarfs. I'm in DA (Dwarfs Anonymous), and I have hundreds of dwarfs to apologize to.

I never forget. I have a memory like an elephant. And you are correct. You can get anything on the internet. It's knowing not only how to find something but also how to verify the source. The source is the important part.

So, tell me again why you throw dwarfs in your free time and exactly how many calories can you burn doing it? Do you work up a sweat?

sassy..., are you kidding? It's thekid... and haeight ( http://www.gazettextra.com/news/2008/feb... ) with all the links.

I say, just go with what you know and your ability to say it, here. All the other stuff is clutter. You can get stuff on the net that agrees with you on anything. Are you sure about the giggle-weed right now, maybe you smoked some and forgot!

And, westside, you're definitly high!!!

gazettefan answer me......i want a personalized jersey the color GREEN and I want my number to be 420

but it IS 4:20 now, so...I'll check in with you all later!

sassy..., my choice works for me. Direct your comments to the dwarfs.

I was cracking up because it seems you don't trust many people's comments without statistical proof or scientific data to support it. Apparently I've won my way into your graces somehow, and it can't just be on my good looks. so now this is no laughing matter...and no, I'm NOT on the giggle weed...

gazettefan, is that a legal sport? If so where can I get the papers to participate ha

so what you're telling me is that you knowingly and voluntarily participate in dwarf-throwing 3X/wk and think that pot-smokers make bad choices??? interesting.... lol

Glad you have no links etc. Had enough of that with the thekid... and haeight. I'd rather just trust your observations. You wouldn't lie, would you?

Don't know what cracked you up about your own post. Are you on the giggle-weed now?

not kidding. Like I said, it's just an observation. I don't have any statistics or links to any reports to prove my stance. So does that indicate you will not believe me, or do you know me well enough to trust my observations on that basis alone? I can't help myself. I just crack myself up sometimes...and the "crack" was not intended, but it just happened that way...

No, not when I'm juiced. I don't get hangovers.

Surprising about what you've observed re: weight and pot smokers and cocaine users and crackheads. Are you kidding?

by the way, gazettefan, are you all juiced up, when you participate in your dwarf-throwing exercise routine, or hungover?

as has been stated a million times here, the effects of pot smoking are different with different people. I do not encourage dwarf-tossing; however, I have found that I can keep my "girlish figure" by working hard when I work and playing hard when I play. By the way, I think there are more overweight cocaine and crack addicts than there are overweight pot smokers...I could be wrong of course. This is just an observation I've made.

do you really want to get back in to Mensa? I wouldn't, if they asked me to leave. I would find an intelligent network elsewhere...like, say the GazetteExtra forum...just a thought. :)

What about Bacardie's Select?

How bad would my munchies get? I burn off my rum-calories with thrice-a-week dwarf-tossing.

i give mr gazette man 2 more weeks and he'll join us ms sassy! and yes i did enjoy the music of jimi, bob, petty and others before i found my "relaxation method"

I don't think so, gazettefan, there's no contra-indication with brandy or Mike's Hard Lemonade, either. That settles it. I think Captain Morgan would encourage it, as well.

I got thrown out of Mensa for being a know-it-all. Will pot use get me back in?

Hey Westside, I think we can definitely get gazettefan to come to "the dark side" with us...He's starting to waver a bit, don't you think?

Does pot use contra-indicate rum?

Spokesman: Jack Nicholson/Easy Rider style.

"Ooohh, I've gotta a helmet!"

I guess I shouldn't have fed you any ammunition to continue with your stereotypical views...my bad.

No black lights, headbands, posters or Bob Dylan, thanks. Maybe a little Jimi Hendrix and Pink Floyd, though.

Musical tastes differ among the pro-pot smokers, too, gazettefan. I'm sure you must find it difficult to believe, though. Since you also find it difficult to believe that one can ALSO carry on a normal life, in spite of our seemingly horrible and corrupt lifestyle of being pot smokers.

Perhaps you might want to give it a try. Don't get me wrong, I'm no "pusher".

westside, he's on the tunnel blog.

ps. i've been gone for a few days. Where has thekid been?

haha gazettefan, jingle jangle i haven't heard that phrase used in quite a while! Ms. sassy: thekid, thekai and I could educate you so you could be our dream leader! Also we just need to turn gazettefan on to legalization and he'd be a hell of a spokesperson!

With plenty of Jimi Hendrix and Bob Dylan records, black lights, posters, and NO incense --headbands, optional. The test goes till the jingle-jangle mornin'.

awww. I can ALMOST feel the love, gazettefan! Although I would never agree to "head" up a pro-legalization post. I am too fearful that I would get thrown into the crowbar motel. I have never seen the inside of a jail and I don't intend to do so.

Good idea about testing, gazettefan. Maybe we can see if there is an AMOUNT of marijuana in one's system: test when they first arrive and then get them stoned. Then take another test. Meanwhile, have a good movie and a pizza available. oh, and a couch...Review the differences between the first and second tests.

I don't know! And you want ME to be the spokesman for this project? I don't think I'm adequately qualified.

Doesn't mean I don't support legalization of marijuana for personal use, of course.

color...., my post had had nothing to do with the truth of the Mayan story. It had to do with how it fails to promote your cause. Your posts defending the use of pot reveal deep alienation.

Also, it's you who should be checking things out: Lemmings jumping off cliffs en mass is a MYTH.

Barring the possibility that your post was sarcastic: Yes, you would do well to have a juicer articulate your cause. Under no circumstances should you leave it to a pot head. Except, like I said before, ms...sassy.

"Marijuana lets the user see right through people and their true motives"

Yeah, that's what it does.

gazettefan, i want you as capaign manager!!!

Yeah the Mayan thing is purely myth, and dictionary.com is wrong too! It was copy/paste directly from the link. If you didn't notice the definition, it was about halfway down the page. Like most Lemmings, you go directly for the first available information, and then accept it as word one. If you were to dig a little deeper, things aren't always as they first appear. I guess that is the Lemming/programmed/brainwashed modus operandi you live by huh? I bet you have way more experience with using Marijuana than most people here. My opinions aren't valid, but yours are. Thanks for the input, by your inference I will stop posting, most like you are WAY too smart for me anyway! I guess I will keep to running my business and stay off this blog. I was just bored this weekend because of the weather. NEVER ARGUE WITH A FOOL, LISTENERS CAN’T TELL WHICH IS WHICH. Native American Proverb.

Without counting, I might have to conside the point that at least half the posts here are pro-pot smoking or pro-pot legalization; though I do doubt that this is a representative sample of how the American public feels about this issue.

I suggest that with all this support, the pro-pot people here form a local group for the purpose of promoting the legalization of pot nationally. Then keep us posted on your progress.

Suggest that ms...sassy be chosen to head this effort. She has proven to be the most articulate and level-headed in her defense of pot smoking here.

colorsand, your recent posts, especially your last two, creak under the weight of self-condemnation. You should re-read them.

for the truly dim....
Lemming:

The act of following the crowd into an investment that will inevitably head for disaster.

source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/L...

Have you ever seen how the Mayan peoples use Peyote (Mescaline) in a responsible way to see inside themselves and to view the world unclouded by outside influence? In a similar, yet less effective way, Marijuana lets the user see right through people and their true motives. Now we can't really allow people to be influenced by their own unmolested view of the world can we? Just think of the position that would place our government in. I think you can see the government’s motivation in not legalizing this substance. We can't have the country's population running around and thinking for themselves can we Lemming?

For everyone's information, the constant comparison to alcohol is because....GUESS WHAT? ALCOHOL IS A DRUG!!!! Legal-Yes. A drug-Yes.

So MANY Lemmings, woefully too few cliffs for them to run off! Take a look at how many responses this story garnered. Then take a close look at the majority opinion. The result speaks for itself.

I just don't understand the constant comparison to alcohol. If you want to show the benefits of pot, don't start off by saying it is better than... an item you say is bad.
When comparing it to something that you consider bad, you are in a sense saying well it is bad, but not as bad as...
Here's an example why that type of arguement does not work.
Let' say I am pulled over for speeding and I tell the officer...Hey it's not like I am a killer or drug dealer...and on this road the speed limit is to low anyway so the law should be changed so you quit picking on us speeders.
The issue is not wether pot is good or bad but that you are breaking the law.

Cont.

How much farther will the self thinking American citizen let this kind of government control escalate? I think people need to wake up from their slumber and take a look at what is going on around them. One day in the future every citizen will be in a prison setting that is under computer control and NO ONE will be able to get out!
Lets move away from our thoughts that the U.S.A. is the savior of the world and does very little evil-indeed we used to be that entity-and start to realize that when we conquered Germany and the Nazis, we went in and took possession of all Hitler’s ideas on ways to control and regulate society-and then reformulated them-spoon fed them ever so gradually into our society and today some accept it as evolutionary thinking, progress and correct. Our gov has reintroduced the very same concepts to control and dominate our once free and great society EXACTLY the same way Hitler did. To top it all off your grandfathers and grandmothers fought, made GREAT personal sacrifice and many died to prevent that kind of gov control. Now we willingly let them do it to us!!!!
I bet all the people who died in vain to protect our freedoms and way of life are VERY proud of where their sacrifice has led us!
Laugh at me while you can, because I ASSURE you that your descendants will be crying and gnashing their teeth at what WE willingly accepted from our government.

Let’s legalize the things that DON’T matter-and turn our attention to matters that are FAR more important than what a person consumes or does in the privacy of their own domain! Yes there will ALWAYS be people who abuse the privilege. If drugs are illegal-alcohol is illegal!
One last note, did you ever notice how MAN tries to synthesize a chemical that occurs naturally? Most often to disastrous result. Remember GOD created the root ingredients of most recreational drugs, a mentally challenged HUMAN caveman discovered how to “manufacture” alcohol on a fluke! Look at our track record people, who do you, place your trust in; GOD or a human being?

In the U.S.A. it is not about what should/should not be legal, it is about making laws-or refusing to make things legal that really ought to be. (non violent/recreational activity performed in a private setting-like your home) This is especially true when that activity should be of no consequence to anyone except the individual.
Let’s take a real quick look at alcohol. Alcohol has caused more grief to the public, ruined more lives and affected more innocent people over the course of human existence than all other recreational substances people indulge in combined. That is alcohol in one group-all other drugs combined in the other. Alcohol should be illegal as well as ANY other drug if you want to align yourself with the “government needs to regulate every aspect of your existence” crowd. (after all; we are only looking out for your welfare) I believe the gov’s opinion is to lockup as criminals many people as they can. If you think I am way off base, just take a look at WORLDWIDE population density in other countries compared to percentage of people under incarceration.
I have said and continue to believe - that the U.S.A. government will NOT be happy until they can implant a chip in your brain to read your thoughts, deduct a monetary fine electronically from your electronic funds account (paperless-monitored transactions) and jolt you with an electrical charge to incapacitate you until Johnny law comes to take you to jail. Eventually the technology will be advanced to punish you BEFORE you ever commit a crime-that equals impure thoughts as determined by the sinless ones.
I was the one who predicted 25 years ago that you will be crouched down, smoking a cigarette behind your garage on a Wednesday night, and Johnny law will be there to arrest you. You will be heavily fined and sent to prison for your “crime”!!!! I think I was only about 10 years off with that prediction. The gov is already making laws on what is acceptable or not acceptable to consume as food, (think trans-fat content NYC) what is politically correct to utter in public, ad infinitum!

ms...sassy, should the person being tested be high on pot at the time?

yeah, "just say no" worked so well (sarcasm)

Anyway, the point I was attempting to make is that when pot is legal, the excitement of doing something "risky" is reduced. so a teen isn't going to be as likely to try to sneak it and then get into a cycle of other risky behaviors. Therefore, when a teen reaches adulthood s/he will be able to make a responsible decision to use marijuana or not.

The same can be said of countries where there is no drinking age. I believe Sweden does not even have a legal drinking age and the children grow up around it so the appeal has "worn off".

Again, I would like to reiterate for about the thousandth time, IT IS ALL ABOUT RESPONSIBILITY. Not having a drinking age here in these United States would be about like the proverbial bull in the china shop ending. I can smell DISASTER already, given the level of dysfunction in so many families. Perhaps before we legalize pot (sorry thekid, but I have to say it...) we should have anyone interested in smoking pot take a test to see if they have the ability to use it responsibly. Kind of like a "learner's permit". The same can be said about testing before having children, or getting married or...the list can go on for days...I don't understand what has happened to this country, but it seems that nobody gives a damn about anybody but themselves. I digress. Sorry.

Roll by my hisnatch and smoke a B bra, we got the sticky ickey up in this joint fo sho!

Hey, normalcitizen, those dutch kids stopped wearing wooden shoes for a good reason!!!

just say no

Just to let gazettefan (and anyone else) know, I'm not kid. I am someone new to the forum.

Also, I don't think I saw ANYONE (pro or anti legalization) say they wanted teens and children to smoke pot. I don't even know what that post is even trying to say. Couldn't the same be said of alcohol that it would cause depression or suicidal thoughts in teens and children?

Also, the effects of alcohol, tobacco, marijuana, aspirin, etc. are different for each and every person. Alcohol & Tobacco are mentally AND physically addictive. We all agree there? Marijuana has never been physically addictive in the years that I smoked. It can be mentally addictive, though. Then again, so can food be mentally addictive for some people. (People who eat when they are depressed or stressed out.) You body doesn't start to shake involuntarily when you can't smoke like with alcohol. It doesn't do what tobacco does (nicotine fit), and you don't get violently ill like with heroin and cocaine (neither of which I have done, but have known some people who did). Also, Oxycodone/oxycontin/vicodin/morpheine and opioids and are extremely addictive, and are from the same plant that heroin is made of. I am sure we know of a Brett Farve or Rush Limbaugh that has gotten addicted to that. I can base my judgement on this type of drug from those people's experience, and my limtited, legitimate exposure to these pain killers.

Marijuana is NOT the evil drug it was made out to be in the 30's. The criminalization of it was based on propaganda, fear mongering, and money loss by the rich.

And another thing, EVERY drug I have listed on this post goes through some sort of process by man. Alcohol is distilled/brewed/fermented. Tobacco, well I think the facts are well publicized there with additives to keep people addicted, rate of burn, etc. Cocaine from plant, but refined. The opioids from a plant, but processed. Aspirin - where does that come from? The only process that Marijuana goes through is drying, but that isn't exactly altering its natural form.

That dutch teens are smarter than american teens.

there is also a study by the British Medical Journal that states American teens use pot 5 times more than dutch teens, where its legal to smoke if you are over 18.

What does that lead you to believe?

at one point I did post a comment that if marijuana is legalized, there would be no need to screen for it.

At the time I posted that, I was thinking of it from a Worker's Comp standpoint. I worked in HR for a time and I know that (at that time, which was many years ago) it was difficult to ascertain alcohol in one's system-length of time passed from consumption until the time of injury on the job and the correlation between the two.

My thoughts were that since then there has been research done and can now verify blood alcohol content in differing degrees of lapses of time, based on weight, etc. My comment was that they will need to have better testing methods in order to ascertain if someone is injured at work if it is related to them working while impaired on the job or they had consumed marijuana 2 or 3 weeks ago...

I'm not disputing that working while under the influence of marijuana is irresponsible and has the potential to have catastrophic results depending on the nature of one's job.

Made out of hemp. I don't think so.

Justsaynotomath Using the anolgy of safe sex and pot. Are you trying to corner the market on pot condoms?

what happened jsvlparkergrad, too much poutine this week? :}

What I HAVE BEEN SAYING all along, is that using pot is an ADULT activity, of the using adult's choice...not for children. I say that for this reason: for the most part, a child is not responsible enough to drive a vehicle responsibly, a child is not responsible enough to drink alcohol responsibly, a child is not responsible enough to attend school every day-if given the choice...

Let's focus on RESPONSIBILITY folks. Everything in moderation....taking care of business...

Pot, alcohol, Xanax, Seroquel-it doesn't matter what we're talking about. Until people LEARN that life is about taking responsibility and that no pill/drug/drink is going to fix your problem (especially a problem that you created yourself, by perhaps being irresponsible) is out there. I don't think anyone ever said it is, but people who are SO AGAINST pot have NO IDEA of how it can ENHANCE a RESPONSIBLE PERSON'S life. Not fix, but not ruin, either.

The same government that would regulate the sale and manufacture of marijuana would be the one that would take the thugs "out of business", would ensure that I am not getting crack cocaine cut into the mix, would have the ability and authority to regulate who to sell to and in what quantities.

ms_sassy: your comment: "I would never condone the legal use of marijuana prior to reaching adult age (18? 21?)."
The operative word being LEGAL. So this means you would condone ILLEGAL use of pot in underage people, just as you now condone illegal use of pot for anyone now now? Just like underage drinking is "condoned" now?
If adults want to use pot legally, fine. But teens are the worst group to allow smoking pot (or ingesting it in other forms). For some reason, there are a lot of medications they are finding now meant to help teens actually have more negative consequences. Aspirin, for example, is unsafe to use in kids and teens, because of Reyes Syndrome. But I have seen many posters here saying, "Let's use pot for ADHD and other problems". I'm sure there are parents out there that are already doing their own biased "clinical trials" for this anyway.
As for not doing drug testing for THC if it is made legal, I think that would open a big can of worms, since THC has such a long duration in the body. So it would be fine if the guy piloting an airplane I'm flying on tests positive for THC, but we can't prove whether that pilot is presently stoned or it was from smoking pot 2 weeks prior? Sorry, but I would not want to take that chance.
I believe it was ms_sassy who said if pot were legal, no drug tests would be need for THC as a condition of employment. That is also wrong. I know that in my profession, having THC showing up positive in a random drug test would mean termination. The same holds true if alcohol shows up on the drug screen, and that is legal now.
And I see here that if pot is legalized, all the pot smokers would want the government to regulate it? The same government which you distrust so totally now? So the gov't legalizes pot and the paranoia suddenly vanishes?
Just some observations I've seen.

justsay...., nice try to get someone to admit they've committed a criminal act.

I take it you refrain from being a purse snatcher because you tried it and didn't like it.

I read the report as well. I find it interesting that it is limited to TEENS and children who use marijuana. People's brains are still growing until they reach the age of, I believe, 17. I would never condone the legal use of marijuana prior to reaching adult age (18? 21?).

I also know there are studies that say that ADULTS who use marijuana report FEWER episodes of depression, thoughts or ideation of suicide, and a HEALTHIER mental outlook.

My guess (and it's just a guess, so please don't start throwing your monitors around) is that these kids in the study were depressed already--probably because the parents are not involved enough in their kids lives to even know their kid is depressed. The report says, "Walters appealed to parents to recognize signs of possible drug use and depression."

I would suggest parents should recognize the signs of depression and that can do wonders to thwart the teens reaching out to illicit drugs to feel loved and to mask the pain that one is feeling and is at the root of depression.

Don't blame bad parenting and parents being too busy to raise their children on pot.

No one ever said that marijuana replaces anything. It enhances an already-together life. I know of no drug that can make everything alright once a person's life has been virtually destroyed by divorce, poverty, lack of ambition, lack of friends, lack of self-control, lack of communication with parents, lack of hearing "I Love You" once in a while, lack of personal power--you get the picture...

Great post, RoseyPots.

And according to westside, we can add headaches to the mix.

This was in the news this morning.
WASHINGTON - Depression, teens and marijuana are a dangerous mix that can lead to dependency, mental illness or suicidal thoughts, according to a White House report being released Friday.
A teen who has been depressed at some point in the past year is more than twice as likely to have used marijuana as teens who have not reported being depressed — 25 percent compared with 12 percent, said the report by the White House Office of National Drug Control Policy.
"Marijuana is a more consequential substance of abuse than our culture has treated it in the last 20 years," said John Walters, director of the office. "This is not just youthful experimentation that they'll get over as we used to think in the past."
Smoking marijuana can lead to more serious problems, Walters said in an interview.
For example, using marijuana increases the risk of developing mental disorders by 40 percent, the report said. And teens who smoke pot at least once a month over a yearlong period are three times more likely to have suicidal thoughts than nonusers, it said.
The report also cited research that showed that teens who smoke marijuana when feeling depressed were more than twice as likely as their peers to abuse or become addicted to pot — 8 percent compared with 3 percent.
Experts who have worked with children say there's nothing harmless about marijuana.
"I've seen many, many kids' lives negatively impacted and taken off track because of marijuana," said Elizabeth Stanley-Salazar, director of adolescent services for Phoenix House treatment centers in California. "It's somewhat Russian roulette. There are so many factors, emotional, psychological, biological. You can't predict the experimentation and how it will impact a kid."
The drug control policy office analyzed about a dozen studies looking at marijuana use, including research by the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration.
Overall, marijuana use among teens has decreased 25 percent since 2001, down to about 2.3 million kids who used pot at least once a month, the drug control office said.
While the drop is encouraging, Walters appealed to parents to recognize signs of possible drug use and depression.
"It's not something you look the other way about when your teen starts appearing careless about their grooming, withdrawing from the family, losing interest in daily activities," Walters said. "Find out what's wrong."

i keep getting headaches from reading hannah and gazettefan's boring posts on this topic every day...in your lifetime marijuana will be legal so start the acceptance now please

oh hannah i bought that cereal, and sprinkled my keef on the top of it for extra flavor :)

A #1 to Portland

That's a helluva retort, pal!!!

Unless he's "normalcitizen".

dub..., you're in no position to tell anyone what to do, because you're obviosly hallucinating, because thekid... isn't back.

Uh oh, Hannah, you better not eat any of that cereal -- it might make you PARALYZED!

Willie Nelson isn't the only star, what about Woody Harrelson? The movie "Grass" which he is the narrator.

How about the History channel's "The History of drugs" (a few different topics/episodes including cocaine, extasy, marijuana to name a few)

Also, see the following why the Hearst's and DuPonts wanted it illegal

Industrial Hemp

1. One acre of hemp can produce as much usable fiber as 4 acres of trees or two acres of cotton.

2. Hemp paper is longer lasting than wood pulp, stronger, acid-free, and chlorine free. (Chlorine is estimated to cause up to 10% of all Cancers.) Hemp paper can be recycled 7 times, wood pulp 4 times. Hemp fabric requires fewer chemicals than cotton and is stronger and longer lasting.

3. 5-10,000 Cancer related deaths are caused yearly from pesticide use. Cotton uses as much as 40% of all agricultural pesticides. Hemp uses no pesticides and crowds out weeds without herbicides.

4. Cotton has a drinking problem...extensive water subsidies. Hemp requires less water than cotton and grows in cooler climates.

5. Hemp should be worth $500 per acre if used for low end products such as particle board. If higher use products can be developed such as specialty paper and fabrics, the value could be even greater.

6. Hemp is an excellent rotation crop: it crowds out weeds and its deep tap roots break up hard pan soils.

7. Hemp particle board may be up to 2 times stronger than wood particle board and holds nails better.

8. Low-THC fiber hemp varieties developed by the French and others have been available for over 20 years. It is impossible to get high from fiber hemp. Over 600,000 acres of hemp is grown worldwide with no drug misuse problem.

9. In 1941 Henry Ford built a plastic car made of fiber from hemp and wheat straw. Anything made from a hydrocarbon can be made from a carbohydrate. The 21st century should be the era of the carbohydrate (sustainable agricultural products.) Hemp plastic is biodegradable, synthetic plastic is not.

10. Hemp is the world's most versatile fiber. Almost any product that can be made from wood, cotton, or petroleum (including plastics) can be made from hemp. There are more than 25,000 known uses for hemp!

quoted from: http://www.ecomall.com/greenshopping/woo...

billnewbie,
While it may seem somewhat complicated, in essence, you denounced almost everything thekid was saying because he was not credible. In denouncing everything he has said, you toss aside his arguments as irrelevant. His arguments are, however, largely the same arguments as my own. I can understand if thekid were the only person making these arguments, why a person would be somewhat reluctant to take them seriously. The truth is, I have also been making the arguments, and so far I do not see a reason that I wouldn't be a credible source. That being said, although the character of thekid may seem a bit shaky to you, you can not simply ignore the points he and I have both made. His image may be bad, but clearly he has done his research and the facts do speak for themselves. Of course you have to freedom to not like who he is, just don't let that effect your judgment of the knowledge he passes on.
Also, I apologize if it seemed like I was attacking you in retaliation. I merely wanted to point out that many of thekid's posts were legitimate, and I believe he is fairly credible.

thekai:
You didn't claim a right to break the law. You said you don't use marijuana. You didn't say marijuana saved your life, and that marijuana has had nothing but good effects on you. I was asked what I think and why about the above and more. You didn't ask, I was responding to someone else. You mischaracterize what I wrote as an attack on your credibility and him. I told him why I think he is wrong. I did not question your credibility as I was not addressing to you.

thekid...: Haeight at the smoking ban blog is always posting links to support his claim that smoking in public places is OK. How can anything in those links justify smoking in public places? Are you for that too?

http://www.gazettextra.com/news/2008/feb...

kudos, once again, thekid! I commend your research and your ability to thoughtfully and courageously answer the questions about your life (that I have been too afraid to do) to the "strangers" and objectors here.

I'm out of this comment board too, as it has been argued "to death".

Does libel apply if we're using fake names?

thekid..., if you sue me, please get a stoner lawyer.

you tell me to learn both sides, but again, not one of you KNOWS both sides. and worse you all refuse to LEARN both sides. yo if you make a point gfan YOU need to show me where to get that info. its not my job, and i cant believe you dont understand that you need to substantiate your point of view, not me. cuz if you leave it up to me, ill take option b, and be a lazy pothead and use you as a reason people need the option to get high. ive heard people say our kids will get contact buzzes. ive heard people say im driving around town smoking, not just high, but actively smoking. ive heard the man may get me for trafficking. i get told my story is unbelievable. think about this. i am a successful person, father...youknowthelist...and im admitting to marijuana consumption, on a fairly regular basis. my point is that i do that with no negatives, and im aware the biggest negative would be arrest, dont you think if im risking the ultimate negative, the story im tellin maybe somewhat factual?? not sure if its the marijuana consumption or just the no negatives that are unbelievable, again, come shake my hand, ill prove both;) i hear to take personal responsibility. stop supporting the gangs. the murderers. again, weve posted numerous links to the benefits of marijuana, and you anti-potters wont even look at them and ask 'what if?' legalize the drug you take the profit from the gangs. you take the profit from the gangs you take their motive for murder. i dont see how it can be any clearer. and i need to take personal responsibility?? i hear you judge us cuz were morally irrresponsible for breaking a law. then someone points out that alcohol prohibition was overcome. ask yerselve, did they change that law because people followed the law?? NOPE. you can drink today because people were doing then in mass what i and other smokers are doing, which is blatantly and openly breaking an ignorant law. peace, im out.

excellent post thekai. how do you argue logic?? id like to say one last thing then im out of this discussion. since this whole discussion started ive heard pretty much nothin but negatives regarding my lifestyle, and even those who just believe in my lifestyle. you anti-potters make claims of all these negatives, and back up very few. you say things to 'help' your side about willie nelson, or jokes about oreos or doritos, which doesnt help your side. cuz if thats really your worries, then i cant believe were even having a discussion on why pot is illegal. as for this being an actual discussion.....i dont have the attention span to go back and look at my posts where ive acknowledged the potential negatives, but one last time, im aware they exist. are they potential?? yup, cuz i havent seen one yet. can i find info to contradict most of the potential negatives, yup. but i DO acknowledge them. ive also acknowledged when good points have been made on that side. you anti-potters are a dift story. thekai, fldman, myself, dub, sweet and all the other supporters have put more than enough links up here supporting what were saying. have any of them been acknowledged?? nope. not once did i see an anti-potter say, OMFG, MY MOM HAS BREAST CANCER, IT MAY HALT THE SPREAD OF THAT?? ITS TO LATE FOR HER, BUT SOME DAY MY DAUGHTER.....not once did i hear any anti-potter say, wow kid thats a good point 'what if i get cancer and pot made me feel better, dont i want that option??' no instead i hear, kid you need to read both sides, learn both sides then decide, dont just stop reading when you find the answer you want. i told you i know both sides ive read both sides, and you say again kid learn both sides. do you understand yet why i may lump you in as a hypocrite??

I wonder if Ann Murray eats poutine.

thanks, thekai and thekid (and others) for all of your wonderful posts in support of legalization.

billnewbie, gazettefan and jsvlparkergrad (and others) have had quite a time with countering your information.

I, as I have stated before, am definitely on the pro-legalization side of this fence. I'm pleased that I live in America for this main reason: our right to free speech and our right to state our positions and have an opinion (regardless of whether anyone else agrees with us or not) without risk of persecution-legally, anyway.

(There are many other reasons I am happy to be an American, :) of course, one of them is that I can distance myself from Anne Murray and poutine.)

no, hannah. I am not saying that.

You are entitled to your opinion as much as anyone. I apologize if I offended you.

billnewbie,
What makes my posts not credible? I share almost all of the same view points as thekid. Does that then validate his view points? I don't smoke Marijuana. I don't buy it, traffic it, manufacture it, or distribute it in any way. It is interesting how you all attack thekid and say he must be wrong, because of his "twisted" perception of things... but when a sober person produces the same arguments, that sober person is over looked. Maybe it's because it's easier to pick on someone who looks weak. Maybe it's easier to point out his flaws. The fact that he and I are in agreement on many topics, and we can both provide evidence, should be enough to prove that his statements are indeed credible. (Using your logic about the lack of credibility, because he uses Marijuana.)
°
State laws permitting segregation were in the North as well as the South. Racism existed in the North, even though we fought for the emancipation of African Americans. Most Americans still regarded African Americans, Mexicans, and other immigrants as "racially inferior." It took African Americans almost 200 years before they were finally recognized as equals to "whites". Marijuana has been illegal for less than 100 years.

thats funny sassy:)

good questin hannah. one thats been asked several times of me. ill figure that out if im ever forced to quit smoking pot:)

great posts, as usual, thekid!

hannah, I'm glad you stopped using marijuana. If you were on our side of this topic, it would appear that marijuana affects a person negatively. Please, don't smoke pot again.

gfan, is that an ignorant stereotype?? or have you seen me 'bouncing around with a big giant blunt in my face'. or is that libel?? i was actually giving you kudos for the mime joke. and i know the risk of the man, ive stated im well aware of it. but if you are going to imply that i traffick, which is a federal offense, then you better have some proof, cuz that IS libel. i buy what i need for myself and myself only.

billnewbie, im gonna type this slowly so maybe you can understand this time:)willful ignorance?? i never said we pot smokers as a whole dont support the 'gangsters'. in fact ive agreed several times. i know i personally dont, but i understand your point. how can you not comprehend that if it was legal we wouldnt have to?? again, al capone anyone?? as for pot saving my life unbelievable. or not a single negative unbelievable. i understand what youre saying. had you told me 4 years ago where id be, and how id get there in life, i would have prolly said unbelievable too. but now that i know what i know, and LIVE LIKE I LIVE, its not unbelievable. its as real as anything ive ever done....

thekid..., my wording was right-on.

You bouncing around town with a big giant blunt sticking in your face is an example of how any positive development for pot use is being impeded.

thekid3477:
Your claim that marijuana saved you is unbelievable. Your claim that marijuana's effects on you are all good is unbelievable.
Your claim that you have a right to break the law as long as you accept the consequences is a product of confused thinking. Your refusal to acknowledge your dealings with the gangsters who supply your marijuana is willful ignorance, or worse. All of that leaves you with large scale credibility problems.

thekid..., here's a negative you might be looking at: The Man knocking on your door to arrest you for trafficking.

gfan, that made me smile. bravo. no im not a mime, sorta the opposite;) i was raised catholic, but i dont practice. my kids are methodist and i completely encourage and support that my ex is giving them that option. did you ever find a link to one of those studies you mentioned??;)

"You are not free to choose which laws you obey."

Yes. We ALL have a choice whether or not to OBEY laws. I guess I choose to break this law. I would be willing to wager that YOU ALL have CHOSEN to break a law from time to time. Driving 26 MPH in a 25 MPH zone is breaking the law, whether you choose to admit it or not. And whether local LE chooses to enforce it or not...

As was brought up in earlier posts, Dane County is seeking to de-criminalize possession of marijuana in personal consumption quantities (I believe an ounce or less). Yes, the guy in this story was deserving of the possession with intent to deliver charges.

I'm not in denial about my actions. I effectively use my common sense that dictates that from time to time marijuana is not going to be a threat to my personal safety, the safety of my family or friends and that I am not on the roads driving while under the influence and putting other's lives at risk due to my use.

As far as choosing a surgeon, hannah, I have answered the question. If a person is a good doctor, attorney or cook and chooses to smoke pot in his/her private life, it is of NO concern to me. If a person, on the other hand, is a hack of a doctor, an ambulance chasing attorney, or cook with bad personal hygiene, for example, and chooses NOT to smoke pot in his/her personal life, it is of concern to me and I would seek services elsewhere.

To state it in no uncertain terms: whether a person is a pot smoker IN HIS/HER PERSONAL LIFE I don't care.

What I DO care about is whether the person I trust with my affairs (health/wellness, legal or financial matters, personal services like food preparation, etc) will do the job as expected and to the standards acceptable in his/her industry. If someone who provided their service to me chose to smoke pot last night or last week is completely irrelevant.

THAT single criteria alone (whether or not a person smokes pot) is not a reason to question a person's ability to perform effectively on their project.

I wouldn't ask for a surgeon to submit to a drug test. Would you, hannah?

schedule I narcotics arent just 'prone' to abuse. schedule I narcotics (A) The drug or other substance has a high potential for abuse.
(B) The drug or other substance has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States.
(C) There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug or other substance under medical supervision.
i use more frequently than most, and can certainly understand why someone with no knowledge of my life would say i abuse, but shouldnt abuse also generate negatives in ones life?? other than a chic droppin me cuz i smoke, which ended to be a positive:), i have yet to encounter a negative....

thekid..., with that self-abuse you admit to, I'm hoping you're not a Catholic!!!

thekid..., you're the top performer? I'm guessing you're not a mime.

no hannah, im not saying those are bad things. whatever the individual needs is what should be used. regardless of how you think i meant it, AA, church, exercise, prescription pills, marijuana, they are crutches. crutches are not bad. crutches are necessary to improve ones self.

i never said i use pot for a social drug. i know its not. its a drug i should be able to use responsibly in my own house. the generation of the hippies is in charge, but im not sure how many actual hippies are in charge. pot is nowhere near the gateway drug alcohol is. and just so you know gfan, when i concede a point im aware its not helping my cause. im well aware of the facts against pot. if there were none it would be legal and this story would have never been here.

i have yet to be asked something from my past im unaware of, any more so than someone who doesnt smoke anyways. more times than not i actually impress people with what i remember. and my job i am the top performer, and a LARGE part has to do with short term memory. i dont expect anyone to believe this either tho...

thekid..., yes alcohol is a social drug. And consistant with your claims as to why you smoke pot, the evidence doesn't support IT being a social drug. There is something naturally alienating about pot smoking. This fact is impeding its acceptance and sanciton as a medical drug.

The hippie generation of the 60s is in power now and pot legalization is going nowhere. Why? Because that generation was the experimental group that exposed pot for what it is: a dead end drug that has no positive social value. Medical? Yes.

Yes, there were harder drugs back in the 60s, like LSD. Sadly, pot is a gateway drug to other drugs, including LSD. The Comprehensive Drug Act of 1970 did have something to do with how pot use in the 60s played out. Your acknowledgment of this fact hurts your cause -it doesn't help it.

Pot is a Schedule 1 drug because it is prone to abuse. This pronation is interfering with any other possible use pot or hemp might have.

as far as the underworld criminals. myself and all other pot smokers dont want to buy weed from them. tell uncle sam to legalize/de-criminalize and we'll gladly buy it from him. how many al capones have we known since the end of alcohol prohibition.....

no credibility?? i admit to using pretty much daily. ive invited anyone to come meet with me. ive acknowledged all the potential negatives. ive laid my life out there, here and in real life to prove what marijauna is. how do i not have credibility when it comes to the REAL effects of marijuana use?? where does one get credibility if not from actual experience?? weird as it may sound, if im willing to accept the consequences, then i do have a rite to break a law. and if no one gets hurt by me breaking the law, then i will not feel bad about it. i understand i am on the EXTREME side for marijuana legalization and sometimes i do overstate my beliefs, negating what im trying to say, try sitting next to me and mention the word marijuana some time(ask my mom:) lol would my accomplishments be more justified if i did them with a prescription drug?? or AA?? or church?? or some other crutch?? i dont think so. i am a good person, employee, father, friend, ex;), why does it matter what helped to get me where i am today?? tell me billnewbie, what is it specifically that you find unbelievable about my story??

thekid3477:
Your frequent marijuana use coupled with your self-interest is the reason you have no credibility on this subject. The pot using friends you cite have the same problem. Your bias is extreme and it colors your opinions which make what you say unbelievable. Your insistence that you do no wrong is also self-serving and hollow. You are guilty of breaking the law. You said so. Claiming that this is not wrong is a self-deceiving rationalization. You are not free to choose which laws you obey. You have notably avoided confronting the fact that you do business with underworld criminals, either directly or indirectly, enabling and rewarding their immoral behavior while blaming it all on “Uncle Sam”. All this while claiming accomplishments aided by marijuana as if that justifies everything.

gfan, you have yet to find me one of those studies YOU BROUGHT INTO THE CONVO, so please tell me what am i ducking and dodging??

alcohol was/is a social drug. thats why it took no time to overturn alcohol prohibition. when marijuana/cannabis/hemp was outlawed not enough smoked or even knew of it so they didnt care. even the pols WHO VOTED didnt know what it was, other than the reefer madness they read in one of william randolph hearsts' papers. pot didnt come to mainstream until the 60s. and then the freakin hippies got everyone scared of the effects because of the culture they assumed it created. i wasnt around in the 60s but i hear there were harder drugs too that may have been responsible??;) thats where the controlled substance act of 1970 comes from. they actually changed the marijuana tax stamp because under that act you could actually technically get a tax stamp to grow or possess, but you needed to already have plants to get the stamp. which meant you had to break the law, to make the law, which was ruled unlawful:) make sense?? so the feds classified it in 1970 as a schedule I narcotic, which meant NO KNOWN MEDICAL USE. now there is scientific proof of medical use, yet uncle sam continues to deny. my point is that it all started 70 years ago under misinformation, and SOME of that misinformation still exists. in 99 the AMA said we need some controlled studies, yet where are these controlled studies?? its not that a large part of america(smokers) dont want the studies done. its more that we dont have any big name main stream politicians on our side. we got ron paul and dennis kucinich and a few others, but no big names are gonna support it for fear of losing votes. as another smoker pointed out these laws can change, soon it will be our generation in congress, and in the white house. its starting now. president obama is on video stating he is going to stop spending federal money arresting medical users. hes also stated we need to reform the marijuana laws in some capacity. sry...i just cant seem to stop.....:)

That's right, thekid..., duck 'n' dodge!!!

i for one would not care if my brain surgeon was high the nite before, in fact, id encourage him to relax. id rather have that than a drinker who's hands are shakin cuz he needs a drink?? hannah id be glad to take ANY memory or knowledge test you gots. am i gonna pay a dr to test it?? nope. why?? cuz im not worried in the slightest. ive acknowledged my pot intake. why do you anti-potters refuse to acknowledge that maybe im not overstating this, and maybe pot really truly hasnt affected me in a negative way. you would think someone who admits to using daily would have an opinion thats worth something. but ya'll DENY it. i guess we could believe hannah when she says 'Maybe you dont feel the physical High anymore but I do believe it is still affecting in ways you dont know about' cuz she smoked it maybe 3 times how many years ago. hannah, if we dont know how its affecting us, how do you know(believe) its happening?? do u know something the drs dont?? as for the short term memory loss. believe me or not, but the only short term memory loss i suffer from is when im actually high. even that is minimal. maybe im on the extreme side of the positives vs the negatives. but EVERY pot smoker i know will tell you the same thing. when im not high, as far as the after affects, it could have been a day since i smoked, or a year, my body doesnt know....

thekid..., the reason pot is illegal now is not because it was made illegal 70 years. Pot has maintained it's illegal status due to ongoing research.

Alcohol was made illegal over 80 years ago and less than 10 years later this country saw fit to make it legal again. Pot has had its chance to become legal again but it hasn't because the reasons for keeping it illegal are overwhelming.

Get off this thing about "70 years ago", it is no help to your argument. Leaning on what happended 70 years is bad reasoning. If you cleaned up your logic as well as you clean the seeds out of your weed, maybe you'd see the light.

Segregation was a southern view that the majority of northerners disagreed with, so to say the majority of americans were in favor of seprate, but equal is incorrect. Actually many american from the northern part of the united states marched in the protest and the civil rights bill was signed because the majority of americans agreed with it. That is why this country is a democracy, because the majority rule (except in pricing of gas). I have read alot of the information on marijuana and it all comes back to one point it is a drug and it is illegal and the way society looks at smoking anything the chances it will be legalized (especially for recreational use)slim to none and leaning more towards the none.

good points AGAIN thekai....falling on deaf ears. im not dumb, i KNOW i would be guilty in a court of law regardless of my story. again guilt/innocence does not mean right/wrong, and my 'guilt' will do nothing to diminish what ive accomplished in my life with the help of marijuana. nor does it diminish the huge pile of hypocrisy uncle sam throws at us every day by saying i have the option to drink or smoke cigs, but not pot.

thekai:
I posted that link you wrote about. The purpose of the link was to rebut the erroneous claim made by another that marijuana is not toxic. That was my only purpose in posting that link.

Sorry,
The Majority of Americans also agreed with separate but equal, and felt that segregation was acceptable. Several African American protesters practiced civil disobedience and even broke unfair laws to finally get the government to change things. Just because a majority is not behind a movement does not make the movement unjust.

You can say want you want and quote study after study, but at the end of the day the majority says no to legalization. So you smoke and buy at your own risk, so if you get caught I don't think the judge will accept a plea of "it should be legal dude".

good post again thekai. for what its worth, i have no problems with my short or long term memory. keep judging. the reason i reference info from 70 years ago is cuz THATS WHEN THE LAW WAS PASSED. and the law was passed based on ignorance(they had no real research) and race (they used it as a way to control the mexicans coming in who also brought 'marihuana' and the black jazz musicians in the new orleans area'. any law based on ignorance and race should be abolished.

gazfan the reason he has to use old information is because it's in his long-term memeory. Recent research would be in the short-term memeory and the studies have shown that pot is very harmful to the short-term memory part of the brain.

gfan, its not my job to support your side. if you want to prove your side, then post a link to one of these studies otherwise its just your opinion. my kids NEVER come close to seeing my lifestlye so please leave them out of this discussion.
sorry: we are not a majority, were gettin close..
http://www.drugpolicy.org/news/pressroom...
and dont worry, im a responsible smoker, i wont get arrested, but if i ever would, you wont have a problem knowing thekid3477 got arrested for possessing a plant. im bad now, but i will not shut up if that happens....

billnewbie,
Thank you for clearing things up and explaining to me just where you stand. I do not think that Marijuana should be illegal, but I do not use the drug and I have not for several years. I do strongly believe Marijuana should be legal though. Obviously an argument that I lack judgment and advocate an illegal activity just because I am against it, would not work with me. I do not advocate breaking the law, but I strongly encourage all persons for or against the decriminalization of Marijuana to research the reasons it was made illegal in the first place, and to bounce those facts off of what we know now.
°
Sorry,
Please investigate your quick facts before casting them as end all say all. Several studies have shown that Marijuana in fact does not lead to heavier drug use. Most social scientists agree that the drugs a person uses depends largely on their environment. For instance, if it is easier for a kid to get Marijuana than Alcohol, he or she will probably get Marijuana. Marijuana is also not a suggestive drug. This means that certain ideas do not appeal especially to a Marijuana user when they are high. In contrast, Alcohol is a very suggestive drug, which can be observed by watching drunk behavior. A recent study, I believe conducted by the UCLA, showed that Marijuana has no cancer causing chemicals. I posted on this earlier. Marijuana does not cause cancer. Smoking Marijuana can cause cancer, but smoking anything can cause cancer. When things are burned, there is a chemical reaction that creates carcinogens. Crispy bacon, for example, is a carcinogen and can cause cancer.
°
It is good to do research, but when conducting research it is important to make sure all of your evidence is as conclusive as possible. For example, someone posted a link from a website that said some chemicals in Marijuana smoke are up to 20 times more toxic than the same chemicals in tobacco. I looked at the article and began investigating the research that was conducted. If you only went to the link provided by that poster, then you would not also have learned that Marijuana smoke contained considerably lower concentrations of a number of chemicals, when compared to cigarette smoke.

thekid...., if you're willing to break the law to get pot for its ingrediants, why don't you get those ingrediants (legally or illegally) in tablet form (by whatever method) and spare the children from your self-indugent toxic fumes?

And it's what the government is saying most recently that counts. Why are you ignoring the recent research and instead relying on something from 60 or 70 years ago? I know the answer: you are exhibiting the phenomenon of bais by way of selective perception.

If you want to see those studies, contact the appropriate government agency. I already told you this.

thekid the truth is the majority of americans don't want pot legalized. You can talk til you are blue in the face but it's not going to change until the majority of americans want it changed and thats not going to happen. The way it looks now americans want to get rid of all smokeable substabces. Just look at all the smoking bans. So keep on wishing , but it not going to help. You'll just have to keep doing it illegal and hope not to get busted, but if you do let us all know, so we can come watch you tell the judge it should be legal and you should go free.

ms_sassy_wi:
I am not trying to claim that marijuana use is harmful to the user. Marijuana is illegal. Those who use it can be said to be deficient in judgment and character on those grounds alone. One could argue that a person with “common sense” would not use marijuana simply because it is illegal. Regardless, a marijuana user who is arrested or sued will find it useless to argue that “I really, really, really, think this is good for me” in court. Using marijuana is a bad choice with lots of legal risks and very little reward. Plus there’s the added risk of dealing with those who supply marijuana. No jury of your peers with that group.

billnewbie: did you not see my previous post?? ive done my research on both sides. uncle sam himself has contradicted himself numerous times over the years. i own a copy of a video uncle sam produced in 1942, 5 years after the start of prohibition, where uncle sam explains to farmers the need for industrial hemp to fight the war. he also explains the history of the hemp plant and how its been used for years upon years. and that video was proven true by being documented in the library of congress. so its ok if uncle sam needs it?? i read that the AMA told the committee in 1937 they need more research before they outlaw marijuana. i also read that the committee lied to congress and stated the AMA supported the marijuana tax stamp. some 3000 drs were arrested in the 3 years or so for prescribing cannabis after the start of prohibition. when the AMA 'changed' its mind, and supported prohibition, the arrests stopped. coincidence?? i know that in 1999 the AMA issued a report stating we need further adequate and well controlled studies and that marijuana should remain a schedule I narcotic until we get those studies. so please dont assume im only educating myself on one side. thats why i can discuss this til the bag runs out;) gfan point blank said that there are current studies out there that are the reason marijuana is still illegal, all im askin is to show me those studies, cuz i consume my free time with educating myself about pot, and im aware theres negative research but again, when debating/discussing something, i really only need to substantiate my side. i read anything about marijuana i can get my hands on, for BOTH sides because as you suggested, i am all about finding the truth. i will keep talking and spreading what i know until one by one people realize i may have already found the truth.....

Some quick facts on pot. It increases the heartrate faster than tobacco. It can cause panic attacks,effects stay in the system between 4-6 hours, has more cancerous causing agents then tobacco, more harsh on the lungs because when inhaled it is usually held in for a couple of seconds. Oh yeah people who smoke pot are more likely to use other drugs. Got this off a website by typing in facts about marijuana. Based off this information it seems pot is worse then tobacco and alchol.

if marijuana is legalized, there will be no need to test for it's presence in the system at all.

billnewbie,

Again, I have to disagree with you. As there are no long-term affects from smoking marijuana that have been proven (other than breathing problems, such as asthma, if it is smoked), marijuana being present in one's system is not a justifiable position to take that it is HARMFUL.

There are MANY chemicals in the body that remain there, but do not cause harm.

I believe there has been evidence provided that marijuana may actually HELP in the instances of chemical IMBALANCE (chemical imbalance can cause depression, suicidal ideation, and ADD/ADHD as well as other physical and emotional conditions).

I urge you to review the studies that DISPROVE that one's judgment is impaired, especially once the "high" wears off. If a person has no common sense and does not use good judgment prior to using marijuana, same person will not use common sense or use good judgment while using/after using marijuana. What it boils down to is, of course, once again...the level of ill-advised choices one chooses to make.

I, like most people I associate with, choose to live life while making the least amount of bad choices as possible. Other people can't help but make bad choices because they lack common sense. Legalizing or not legalizing marijuana won't change that. Nor is marijuana to blame for this society's lack of common sense.

Again, the fact that pot stays in the system longer than the "high" should not work in favor of legalization and workplace problems, instead it should work against those things.

This feature is a fact of life that pot smokers have to live with and therefore factor into their decision to smoke pot at all. People are drummed out of the military as result of this feature.

Should the solution be to give pot users a pass or the benefit of the doubt because of this feature? That's just not feasible.

The staying power of pot is a fortunate benefit to the world of people who don't smoke pot. Why shouldn't we exploit that benefit?

Thekid3477:
You should seek the truth, not try to prove one side or the other. That means do your own research. Overcome your bias and seek the truth regardless of where it leads. You may very well find that you are right. Then you can make your case with authority citing what you know, rather than challenging others to provide what they know and ridiculing what they provide, or fail to provide. Furthermore, feeling really strongly about something does not necessarily advance your argument.

ms_sassy_wi:
Nevertheless, the fact that marijuana does stay in the body so long does, in effect, disqualifies marijuana users from many jobs. It seems to me that the fact that marijuana stays in the body so long suggests that its effects may be rather long lasting as well, especially in chronic users. Just because the “high” wears off, does not automatically mean that all of marijuana’s effects have also worn off. I question whether a marijuana user is fully aware of its effects as marijuana impairs judgment, just as a alcohol drinker isn’t a good authority on his own condition.

thekid- Del Taco just opened!

great post thekid!

billnewbie, in response:
your argument suggesting that marijuana smoking is different than drinking alcohol when referring to job related accidents:

You asked, "So you are saying that marijuana use disqualifies one for certain jobs?"

No. That's not what I was saying.

You continued, "That seems to contradict the argument that marijuana use is without the kind of risks that alcohol users present as alcohol drinkers have no such limitations unless they drink on the job or show up for work intoxicated."

The fact remains that there is no test to determine WHEN a person last consumed marijuana.

Therefore, if a pilot crashes his plane, but had smoked marijuana 2 1/2 weeks ago, the marijuana will still show in his system, even though he was not flying the plane under the influence of marijuana.

Whereas had a pilot been drinking alcohol, the alcohol would leave a pilot's system much faster, even though he was no longer under the influence of alcohol.

Therefore, the tests to determine presence of marijuana and UNDER THE INFLUENCE of marijuana are faulty.

*currently illegal

i appreciate the life advice newbie. i have spent the last 3 years reading BOTH sides of the story. i write an active blog on another site and i have posted on what uncle sam says, and ive disected it too. i HAVE researched for contradicting evidence and yes i want you anti-potters to supply that evidence. isnt that the job of the anti-potters in a debate?? to prove what they are saying?? the smokers have posted numerous links to verify what were talking about. why should i try to prove you correct?? all im asking is to substantiate these 'govt studies' the anti-potters have referenced that are the reason pot is currently legal. as for my arrogance. i will discuss, but not debate, religiion. or politics. or gun laws. or global warming. or abortion. or taxes. i will discuss those because i dont have a strong side one way or another and i like to learn dift points about all just to be more knowledgeable. when it comes to marijuana, yes billnewbie, i am EXTREMELY arrogant. why?? because i KNOW. ive read the pro's. ive read the cons. more importantly, i LIVE the pros, and im still waitin on the cons....

ms_sassy_wii:
You wrote “Now, of course, it is different if you drive an 18-wheeler or are subjected to working on ladders or flying passengers over oceans.”. So you are saying that marijuana use disqualifies one for certain jobs? That seems to contradict the argument that marijuana use is without the kind of risks that alcohol users present as alcohol drinkers have no such limitations unless they drink on the job or show up for work intoxicated.
You also wrote “Therefore, a pencil pusher who is also a pot smoker, TYPICALLY will not fall off his/her chair and make a Worker's Comp claim against their employer.”. Anyone can slip and fall in the parking lot on the way into work, or drop something heavy on his foot, or slip on a wet floor, or turn a corner and run into someone. Insurance companies think that these things are more likely to happen to substance abusers than others. Employers risk bankruptcy and unemployment for all their employees when employers ignore drug abusers at work, even if they don’t use on the job.

thekai:
You asked “You did say that you supported making Marijuana legal, right?”.
I said “I can also accept the argument that we should legalize marijuana, since liquor is legal”. I would rather be in favor of making liquor illegal, but I recognize the futility of that position, just as I find it futile to advocate legalizing marijuana as there is not enough support for it.
You also wrote “Your only objection is that you don't make the laws, you only abide by them. Members of our society who knowingly and willingly break the laws should not be surprised with their punishments, even if the law should not exist.
That is what you're saying, correct?”.
I am saying that we are compelled to obey the laws, like them or not. We cannot allow people to decide which laws they will obey and which they can ignore. If we do allow such choices, then how can we argue with the rapist who thinks he can have any woman he wants, or the murderer who thinks his victim had it coming? Those are extreme examples, but I hope they make my point. Aside from that is the fact that marijuana users get most, if not all, of their supply from criminal organizations which are run by murderous thugs. Just because the guy they bought it from is an old friend or neighbor doesn’t change that fact. Their supplier bought it from the thugs, or his supplier did. Marijuana users know this and don’t care, or they think that what they don’t know won’t hurt them (a childish defense, I must say). This takes their law breaking to a higher level than they care to admit.

thekid3477:
You asked “how is anyone who says one is ok and not the other not a hypocrite??”. Again you claim that those who disagree have something wrong with them as if a well meaning, thoughtful person could not possibly come to a different conclusion than you. That seems arrogant to me. Again, you want to be supplied with evidence that is contradictory to your opinion. When a person takes an opinion as strongly as you have, it is the responsibility of that person to research contradictory evidence himself. You should know what is in these government studies and why you refute them. It seems that you found the evidence you wanted to find and you stopped looking. Those who oppose marijuana fall into the same trap, but that is not justification for willfully ignoring contradictory evidence. As for your ex, I advise that you not anger her as you have given her a club to beat you with. Same with your boss. If he ever wants to fire you, he doesn’t need to find a reason, you’ve given him one.

I'm out too. Contrary to popular myth, everyone who smokes pot doesn't stay up all night watching MTV or causing a ruckus and keep their neighbors up all night...

thekid, you rock!

you too, gazettefan. Actually, you Easy Listening! I crack myself up sometimes.

Janesville Caviar or not, I'm still not eating it. The thought of it just made me make that face - you know what face I'm talking about :~{

sounds like a blast, parkergrad...so I suppose I lost the non-existent bet with gazettefan. great.

happy dozing

Good night, north America!!!

See, ms...sassy. what'd I tell you.

If poutine were served here it'd be called:

Janesville Caviar

I'm not getting in the middle of it. Although I have to say it's much more focussed than hannah and I were yesterday...geez.

Sorry, I missed all the fun :(
I have to spend a lot of time on Continuing Education for my profession.
Anyhoo, I happen to like Anne Murray songs. In fact, she lives about 10 miles from me ;) We get together once a week for poutine el Grandes.
Don't mess with the Canadian Military. A few shots from the poutine cannons will finish off the American invaders, coming to steal the oil from the US's top exporter.
Besides, we have universal health care for EVERY Canadian!
OK, the answer is NO, I have not been smoking pot, drinking alcohol, stuffing lit cigarettes up my nose or corrupting minors :P
I'm just totally brain dead after finishing 4 mind-numbing hours of tons of medical studies written in acronyms and dense verbiage, and then taking exams.
I will totter off to bed in this 54/con body and sleep in the arms of Morpheus (that's the God of sleep--or Death, I can't remember now--, not drugs).

G'night Janesburg!

What'd I say? He should stop with the insults.

gazettefan, you're evil! Not that thekid can't take care of himself here...I think he holds his own QUITE well...

thekid..., where are you from? and is it a reciprocity thing?

I've never watched the show except a few times with a woman who's really into it. I kidded her about if they were ever going feature Dylan songs. No one ever thought they would. But I guess one song snuck in there.

okey dokey. American Idol was on tonight and one of the contestants sang Tambourine Man. I thought you got your "inspiration" from that show. Just a mere coincidence. Sorry if I confused anyone...

the silence is almost deafening...where did everyone go?

ms...sassy, I think I recognize the name but otherwise don't know anything about him/it.

gazettefan, come clean! are you an Idol fan, too? lol

thekai!! those are the studies i spent a week askin gfan for. good luck.

billnewbie, I don't know what thekid does for a living, but I have had bosses, in executive positions, who I know for a fact smoke pot and wouldn't blink if an employee with a good head on their shoulders was also a pot smoker. While you are correct about the liability involved, not every position has the same amount of hazard. Therefore, a pencil pusher who is also a pot smoker, TYPICALLY will not fall off his/her chair and make a Worker's Comp claim against their employer. Now, of course, it is different if you drive an 18-wheeler or are subjected to working on ladders or flying passengers over oceans.

billnewbie,
I believe that most government studies support the same facts that show why Marijuana should be legalized. I would like to see the studies that contradict that. I am getting a little confused through all of this though. You did say that you supported making Marijuana legal, right?
Your only objection is that you don't make the laws, you only abide by them. Members of our society who knowingly and willingly break the laws should not be surprised with their punishments, even if the law should not exist.
That is what you're saying, correct?

all good points billnewbie. as for who knows i smoke. believe what you want. my boss saw me posting on this story and he mentioned again the same thing many do 'i think it should be legal but its not'. my ex wife is one of my best friends and she completely understands the sacrafices i made to move to janesville, she understands i dont 'abuse'. she understands that when it comes to my children i am a GOOD father and my 'lifestyle' in no way affects them. just like they are not exposed to alcohol or tobacco thru me. i will and HAVE talked openly to complete strangers about my marijuana beliefs. knowledge isnt illegal. as for the govt studies, i dont deny they exist;), i will deny the validity of some of them, just like EVERY anti-potter has denied the validity of ALL the links fldman posted, and any other smoker. as for my 'liberal' using of the words ignorant and hypocrite. other than gfan, ive only called uncle sam ignorant. hypocrite?? are you kidding me?? EVEN YOU ACKNOWLEDGED ALCOHOL IS WORSE THAN POT. how is uncle sam not a hypocrite for saying one is ok and not the other?? again, EVEN YOU ACKNOWLEDGED ALCOHOL IS WORSE THAN POT. how is anyone who says one is ok and not the other not a hypocrite??

ms...sassy, you need some Dylan:

To dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free

Silhouetted by the sea

With all memory and fate

Driven deep beneath the weight

Let me forget about today until tomorrow

Hey, Mr. Tambourine man play a song for me

In the jingle-jangle morning I'll come following you

I didn't know what poutine is. I had to look it up. Not entirely sure I would want to be force fed french fries topped with fresh cheese curds, covered with brown BBQ chicken gravy, though...yikes...not even on a day with a bad case of munchies

absolutely not. sober as you, I presume...

should come with an ounce of pot, instead...lol

and it's snowbird, not goose..."Yeah, if I could I know that I would fl-y-y-y-y away with you" wow, what a musical genius she is...my skin is crawling right now...

ms...sassy, j-grad has a great sense-of-humor. I hope everyone knows what poutine is.

ms...sassy, at least you'd be more fun. You're high now, aren't you?

gazettefan, I am willing to bet (not much, of course, since I don't have resources since I spend all my income on illegal drugs, according to the stereotype) that jsvlparkergrad will not be pleased with your scenario regarding the elusive Canadian invasion...

billnewbie, a sobering new assessment of the whole matter. Expertly written too.

Gotta see what thekid... comes up with now.

another one of those double standards, gazettefan...if all we did was tell jokes about meaningless stuff, we wouldn't be taken seriously-as if to say, we don't have any brain cells left...

oh, see...now you've made me say to much. It's your fault, gazettefan, I take NO responsibility for my words or actions....

thekid3477:
I’m' not going to try to ferret out all the denials you have made on this and the other thread on this subject, I'm going to go by what I remember. You said that every one who knows you knows that you use marijuana. I find that hard to accept. You said that you were married once and that you have a kid. If your ex knows that you use marijuana, she could use that against you in court as evidence that you still have a substance abuse problem and deny your parental rights. You said that your boss knows about your marijuana use. Again, that's hard to accept. Employers don't want the liability of employing a known drug abuser. Insurance companies can deny claims where an employer knew about an employee's abuse and did nothing about it. If anything were to happen to you, or worse, someone else because of you on the job, the employer may be on the hook for damages entirely on his own. As you well know, your blood will test positive for marijuana for a long time after your last hit, so you don’t even have to be stoned to be a liability problem for your employer. Then there are all those government studies you deny the veracity of as if they were done by government lackeys who get paid to lie, while demanding that your personal anecdotes be accepted as proof and insisting that others provide the same as this is the only proof you will accept. Then there's your liberal use of the terms "ignorant" and “hypocrite” which you use to characterize those with whom you disagree, effectively denying that anyone could possibly legitimately think otherwise after examining the facts as you present them.

Oh, sorry about the "giggle weed" stereotype.

ms...sassy, and what about that snow goose one? Each of her records comes with a box of Prozac.

At last, some acknowledgment of a sense of humor by a pot head, thekid....

I'm busting my hump here writing hilarious stuff and no one's laughing. I thought it was called the giggle-weed.

It's funny how every time the name Anne Murray is mentioned, the tune "you needed me" starts going through my head. MAKE IT STOP! I'M BEGGING YA....

gazettefan, I think we already have what you described in GW Bush. Nope don't want any more of that, thank you.

gfan: i wanna smoke what yer smokin.

I think even if Marijuana were made legal, it would be a long time before the military allowed its members to use it, if they ever did. One example of this is that while to civilians, Salvia is legal, but to the military, it is not.
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Using your same logic, gazettefan, would you rather fight the Canadians back with the well trained and well prepared military of the United States, or with drunken tank drivers, HMMWV drivers, and pilots?

This pacifism thing is not entirely desirable. Sure, you don't want the juicer next-door getting road rage, beating the wife, or kicking down the neighbor's door because the dog won't stop barking.

But consider this:

Let's say the Canadian military is poised on the border ready to invade the U.S. Still reeling with joy from the major butt-kicking they gave us in the War of 1812 they are ready to pounce on us for the purpose of making us listen to Ann Murrey records and to force-feed us poutine.

Do we want General thekid... in charge of our reaction force all mellowed out on the demon-weed flipping the peace sign and thinking: "Maybe if we make nice with these hombres we could get some mighty righteous poutine out of it."?

Or do we want:

A couple hundred thousand romping-stomping, rip-roaring, itchin'-for-a-fight, stone-cold juicers (each one capable of ripping the a-hole out of an elephant) on that border dealing with that invasion? Think about it.

plus that 'side effect' of munchies is why cancer and aids patients are without a doubt people uncle sam is hurting by denying the medical use of cannabis. ask anyone who's gone thru chemo if theyd like to get the munchies.....

there's just no changing your mind, is there, gazettefan? *sigh*

Juicers split the atom.

Stoners split a pie at Perkins

one potential side effect of smoking pot is munchies...that doesn't mean chow-hounds, silly! It takes an effort sometimes to work through the munchies, but generally it's not that difficult to say no to doritos or cookies. unless they are open and within arms reach, but show me anyone who could resist that temptation!

yeah sry yer wrong gfan. smokers get the munchies. it has to do with food only, and as you smoke more you learn to control more. i really dont feel many affects when i smoke any more, other than i just feel good.

btw: pacifism does not mean lazy, it means peace lover, peace keeper, anti violence and anti-war.

Someone with these attributes is not suddenly going to become violent, as with the other street drugs, which SHOULD remain illegal, such as meth and cocaine.

billnewbie, you acknowledged that pots prolly not as bad as alcohol, so my bad on sayin you were in denial. it sounded to me like you were sayin that all pot smokers who say they dont know anyone who has been violent are in denial, and if you believe that, then you either havent read any of the posts the smokers have put up here, or youre in denial that we may be telling the truth. please tell me though what you think im in denial about?? i have and always will acknowledge the potential negatives to the individual user. but i will also acknowledge, prove, and flat out freakin get on my soapbox and preach, those potential negatives AND more can be found in currently legal and govt subsidized alcohol and tobacco. hypocrisy. i am a 31 year old male who drank from 14-27 and got arrested 12 times for dift drinking related offenses. i am also a 31 year old male, who has smoked a large majority of days for the last 3 years with NOT A SINGLE NEGATIVE EFFECT. no alcohol. no tobacco. no caffeine. no aspirin. just pot. im in the best shape of my life. mentally and physically. everything about my life is perfect, accept uncle sam calls me a criminal, oh and i guess i could use a potsmokin hippie female...but thats more of a risk for stress than anything:) needless to say, im PRO:)

What about the thing about pot heads being chow-hounds. Am I right? Because if I am, it indicates that pot heads are very consumptive -food, alcohol, other substances. Am I wrong?

billnewbie, I can't locate one instance of someone becoming violent after only using marijuana.

Q. Does Marijuana Make People Violent?

A. No. In fact, Federal Bureau of Narcotics director Harry Anslinger once told Congress just the opposite - that it leads to non-violence and pacifism [12]. If he was telling the truth (which he and key federal agencies have not often done regarding marijuana), then re-legalizing marijuana should be considered as one way to curb violence in our cities. The simple fact is that marijuana does not change your basic personality. The government says that over 20 million Americans still smoke it, probably including some of the nicest people you know.

12. The FBI reports that 65-75% of criminal violence is alcohol related. "Pacifist syndrome" testimony was given by Federal Bureau of Narcotics Director Harry Anslinger before Congress (1948). However, the "Siler" Study conducted by the U.S in Panama (1931) reported "no impairment" in military personnel who smoked marijuana while off duty.

I know you were directing this to thekid3477, but I can attest not only to the "available statistics" but also to personal experience with many a pot user...in many different cities, states and small town America

http://www.truthtree.com/marijuana_myths...

thekid3477:
I'm not the one trying to justify my criminal act. So, if I'm in denial, what is it that I am denying? You however have denied much.
justsaynotomath:
Like many people, it looks like you hold to the same practice as was written in an old Blood Sweat & Tears song entitled "And When I Die" as follows “I can swear their aint no heaven but I pray their aint no hell".

M/136/con

F / 43 / pro

holy cow there are a lot of comments here! It's taking longer and longer to load the page...

Anyway, I'm wondering if pro- and anti-legalization folks are comfortable with revealing your gender, age and whether you are pro or anti legalization...

I think there are quite a few stereotypes that are still very much alive here. I'm wondering if there is a way to dispel any of the myths as we learn more and more about the logic behind one's beliefs. Just a thought...

Are these myths that people pass down from generation to generation, did they learn them from personal experience, or did they learn them from tv/media or an altogether different source?

jvillparker at 10:54 you said ' forcing a kid to get high just because they share the same breathing space as the "adult" pot smoker (ever hear of a "contact high"?) is absolutely wrong' am i reading that wrong?? and im sry but did i actually see gfan concede a point?? wow. i must be high:) as for the pothead does more substances that cause violent behavior. thats stereotyping. the potheads i know, and i know many, the only other drug they use is alcohol, which is legal and most def causes more ignorant violence than pot. even most of the anti-potters here have agreed pot isnt as bad of a drug as alcohol.

Gazettefan,
If I told you that I smoked Marijuana many times with my own mother in the house you might not believe it, but it's true. No, she did not allow me to use drugs, I just found ways to conceal the smell and smoke. Second hand smoke can be very dangerous, but I think it is very easy to keep children safe, even if they are in the same house. Open windows and designated smoking areas make this all very possible. If Marijuana were legal for use on private property, anyone could just step outside to smoke. The amount of smoking would be considerably less, when compared to most cigarette smokers. No responsible person will blow the smoke into children's faces. I've even been in the same room as my friends while they were smoking Marijuana, after I quit, and asking them to move to the other end of the room was enough to keep the smoke out of my face.
°
It is interesting that you say Marijuana may not induce violence on it's own, but that it leads people to do drugs that do induce violence. The same studies that were commissioned by Presidents Kennedy and Johnson also found that Marijuana does not lead to use of heavier drugs. That is just another common misconception.

thekai, your achilles heal when it comes to smoking at home is: how will the children be protected? -I reject the "safe smoking at home" claims made here. The fact that this evil is going on with cigarettes does not work for your argument, instead it works against it. The children have enough to deal with now.

I might concede the point that pot by itself doesn't make people violent. The problem is that pot heads tend to do other bad substances that contribute to violent behavior.

And there is theory out there (which I hold suspect) that Lee Harvey Oswald was a pot head!

Gazettefan,
I would like to remind you, again, that Marijuana is not addictive like cigarettes are. Assuming it were legal, five people could sit down and smoke weed amongst each other, sharing, vise five people sitting down and each smoking their own cigarettes. Marijuana could be legalized to smoke only in a private home, which I do not think many people would have an objection to. I also remind that marijuana does not have to be smoked in order to feel its effects.
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To show another side of the story about Marijuana smoke being more toxic than cigarette smoke...
http://bbsnews.net/article.php/200712231...
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In reply to Marijuana causing people to be more violent or unruly. This has been investigated several times in the past. Reports commissioned by Presidents Kennedy and Johnson concluded that Marijuana does not induce violence.

Here's a sobriety test for when a cop thinks a driver is stoned on pot: he waves a bag of cookies in front of his face.

C'mon, you people like to chow-down. Am I right?

thanks for clearing it all up for me...I was confused.

pro-legalization vs. con-legalization...either way, we all have to find a way to cohabit on this big blue marble somehow...

If pot ever becomes legal, you'll be dealing with the same thing that's going on with this blog.

http://www.gazettextra.com/news/2008/feb...

I thought that dig about bringing a child to a bar on Main St. was meant for me. I'd never do any such thing with gazettefan jr.

Everyone stereotypes, it's human nature. The trick is to catch your own stereotypes, and to correct them as much as possible. Even jsvlparkergrad saying that pro-pot people stereotype "just as bad" (I'm assuming it is a comparison to people against legalizing Marijuana) is stereotyping.
I'm not advocating stereotyping, but I believe often times it is unintentional.

thekid said: jvilleparkergrad, arent you assuming all responsible pot smokers will be 'forcing a kid to get high just because they share the same breathing space as the "adult" pot smoker'??
Never said that.
My response was to westside, who made these assumptions about me, just below my post about 12:30 today:
i personally do not know anyone who subjects their child to marijuana smoke. I don't know anyone who would want to. But your probably the guy that would bring his newborn baby down to Watering Hole, or Main St Saloon for "Just one" and have their lungs fill with cancerous tabbacco smoke!!
Talk about stereotyping someone. I think the pro-pot people here are just as bad at stereotyping.

billnewbie it sounds like yer spewing as much denial as anyone. every pot smoker on here says the same thing, but WE'RE in denial?? legal/illegal does not define morally right/wrong. lying is morally wrong. breaking a law that hurts someone is morally wrong. smoking pot is illegal, but waaaaay far from morally wrong....

If a person can rationalize lawbreaking, they can rationalize lying just as easily. Self-deception is a big problem for rationalizers. If they knew a fellow pot user who had been violent, they may well deny that marijuana was to blame just because that's what they want to believe. It's risky to accept without question what a person with a individual interest relates.

oh that is right i do assume.. i speak before i think because i am a lazy pot head stoner.. its my day off work and the only thing i've accomplished was going to the bank and 4 loads of laundry.. its my day off i must be high

and as for making our argument in court. no one is dumb enough to volunteer prosecution, but if i ever would get popped for possession. i can promise you. my story will be told......

good post billnewbie. i for one have never said its not toxic. ive said i could find research debating its toxicity. were aware its toxic, it is smoke, we just debate the level uncle sam claims. i can find research that will show certain benefits to the lungs. you are correct when you say as individuals, our sample is minor in comparison to the millions of americans who actually smoke marijuana, but when you add all of us on this board alone, who have never seen it happen. all the sudden its a pretty large sample...that no one has EVER known someone to be ignorant when smoking marijuana without alcohol.

“Marijuana Smoke Contains Higher Levels Of Certain Toxins Than Tobacco Smoke”. That’s the title of a ScienceDaily.com article linked here - http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200...
It’s an article about a study done by a Canadian research group, so that those who are hostile to U.S.Government studies can be assured that this study is not part of the conspiracy some claim exists. It should also put to rest the claim that marijuana is not toxic, although I did wonder how one could claim that an intoxicant is not toxic.
One thing I’ve stopped wondering about is how easily humans can rationalize even illegal behavior. Government conspiracies, the ignorant, the religious, the greedy and unscrupulous corporations are all blamed for the creation of this unjust law which marijuana smokers feel free to ignore, although not so free as to allow themselves to get caught and make their questionable defense in court where there are consequences for the invalidity of their argument. Some claim that they have never seen a marijuana user loose control like a drunk does. If they added up all the people they know, and if these people were all marijuana users, it would not add up to a representative sample of all marijuana users, which means that personal experience is not indicative of the potential effects of marijuana. In other words, they haven’t seen everything, none of us has.
I can accept the argument that liquor is worse that marijuana. I can also accept the argument that we should legalize marijuana, since liquor is legal. But until that day, those who buy and sell marijuana are criminals who deserve punishment for their disregard for the law.

There is a stark difference between smelling the smoke of Marijuana and actually ingesting any significant amount. The best demonstration I can give you is with cooking. Just because you can smell your neighbor grilling down the street does not mean that the fat from the meat is entering your body. It is true, that at a microscopic level, when you smell something you are actually ingesting small particles of said object. This also means, though, that every time we smell a fart we are consuming fecal matter. Do not be alarmed, you aren't going to experience any negative side effects beyond possible gagging, if it's real bad.
When I was growing up, my best friend had terrible asthma. His dad, though was a very big smoker, and smoked two or three packs of cigarettes a day. He would never smoke in the car with my friend, though. He also only smoked in one room of the house, or outside. I want to place more emphasis on the fact that my friend had a grotesque case of asthma. He had to go to the hospital a few times when he was very young, because of bad attacks. The smoke from his dad, when he would smoke in that one room in the house, never triggered an attack. This was a ventilated house, and you could smell the cigarette smoke when his dad did smoke.
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In the 1950s, a law was passed that had a minimum sentence for first offense of Marijuana possession of 2-10 years in prison, and a fine of up to $20,000. Gazettefan, this is a good example to you of how many people are indeed backing up the legalization of Marijuana. There is a reason that law no longer exists, and it's because people knew it was too harsh. Marijuana is not legal yet, but important steps have been made throughout the 20th century to legalize it. This century is young, and on the federal level, I do not believe any further steps have been made yet. That doesn't mean that large groups of people aren't lobbying for it, though. If you need some material to see this, I encourage that you check out the High Times website. It isn't right up your alley, but you have to look at both sides of the story.
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Unfortunately that is all that I have time for right now, but again, I ask that anyone with more questions address me directly, and when I get the chance, I will answer them. Hopefully I didn't miss anything. I would also like to add, before I go...
Please stop with the name calling and nit picking. I get really annoyed by people with bad grammar, and I shout all sorts of nasties at the computer screen. I try not to offend or belittle anyone though, so I keep those comments between myself and my computer. Clearly some members who are on both sides of the argument have good grammar, and some have bad. I don't think Marijuana, or the lack there of, has caused any of this.

I'm gone for an hour and there are five posts, gone for three and around 70 posts, then gone for 12 and I'm just overwhelmed. I finally caught up though. I'll begin addressing the more prominent questions here, and hopefully I do not miss anyone's questions. If there is something you would specifically like me to answer, and I do miss it, please bring it to my attention.
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Hannah,
There are many reasons for pot smokers to take a break. Some people want to clean up so they can get a new job, some people get bored, and some people just want to save money. Aside from giving their lungs a break, or being sick, there is no reason in connection to health as to why someone would take a break from smoking Marijuana.
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Gazettefan,
You have once again stated that you refuse to believe that there aren't negative long term effects from smoking marijuana. This is almost a trick statement. There are long term effects from smoking anything. With this knowledge, one can come to the conclusion that there are indeed bad long term side effects from smoking Marijuana. Recently, though, there was a study done that showed there are no negative long term effects from using Marijuana, to include cancer. Read that carefully. If you refuse to accept facts or research, then I implore you to perform an independent study and prove the other researchers wrong. I do not think you will succeed, but no one is going to stop you from learning on your own.
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To this day, we possess no way to test to see just how much Marijuana someone has smoked. We have tests that can show, not beyond a reasonable doubt, that someone is under the influence though. I think there is one easy solution to the problem presented. Make driving under the influence of Marijuana illegal all together. Most Marijuana users who have operated a vehicle while high will tell you it's much easier to drive under the influence of Marijuana than alcohol. I think that a police officer would have a very hard time trying to pull someone over because he or she thinks they are under the influence of THC. If there is an accident though, or someone is pulled over for negligent driving, it would not be difficult to determine that someone is driving under the influence (and for lack of appropriate means to test what they are under the influence of, a catch all law could easily be used.)

jvilleparkergrad, arent you assuming all responsible pot smokers will be 'forcing a kid to get high just because they share the same breathing space as the "adult" pot smoker'??

westside,
Thanks for ASSuming (as I was accused of before).
1. Where I live has a total public smoking ban, not even in bars.
2. Even if I wanted to go to a nice, smoke free bar, I drink extremely rarely due to a medical condition.
3. Even if I went out drinking, I wouldn't take an underage kid, or worse, a baby.
4. I don't drink/smoke at home nor in a bar and don't have kids.
5. I don't own a car, so I don't pollute or waste gas. I walk, ride my bike or take mass transit (bus, streetcar, subway).
6. Smoking and possessing pot for medicinal/personal use is legal where I live, but I don't smoke pot either.
7. I live in a "free country" that is the #1 supplier of oil to the US.
Any more ASSumptions you'd like to make?

i personally do not know anyone who subjects their child to marijuana smoke. I don't know anyone who would want to. But your probably the guy that would bring his newborn baby down to Watering Hole, or Main St Saloon for "Just one" and have their lungs fill with cancerous tabbacco smoke!!

people are just ignorant to assume that if we smoke pot, the kids will automatically be affected. you can judge us all u want, but we really are smarter than that. granted not 100% of the people are going to smoke it right, but find me anything else that a group does properly 100% of the time. this is another reason we need more research, there are people out there who say its ok to give kids cannabis, not smoked, in cookies or tea, to help with attention deficit disorder. just imagine if we could research and prove that theory correct. no more payin for scripts whose side affects sometimes sound worse than the affliction. pick a couple leaves outa the garden an boil some water.

sorry, gazettefan, no belly-dancing to drum solos going on here...although I must say it sounds interesting :) My mother was asking me the other day if I wanted to take belly dancing lessons...she thought it would be a good way to reduce her mid section...hey, maybe I'll be able to belly-dance my way through a drum solo yet...I'll keep you posted...hehe

jsvlparkergrad, I agree that it is morally wrong for a pregnant woman to smoke pot. No one should be forced to consume anything, but the CHOICE to smoke, when one reaches an appropriate age (18? 21?) should be left up to the individual.

Smoking cigarettes around children is harmful. No one here has suggested that smoking pot around children is acceptable. This is an adult activity, with proper ventilation and outside if possible.

I appreciate your concern for the children, as I share your same concerns. A child's mind is still developing until 12 or 15, I think, and there is no reasonable person who would suggest it is acceptable, with all the data that has been discovered to smoke cigarettes OR marijuana in a child's presence.

I agree that NO one should smoke cigarettes in the same enclosed space with children present.
But I am getting a feeling here that it is not as bad to smoke pot in the same enclosed space with children, because pot is less toxic? Even if that were remotely true, I would still think that forcing a kid to get high just because they share the same breathing space as the "adult" pot smoker (ever hear of a "contact high"?) is absolutely wrong. I have even seen someone here say they thought it would be OK for pregnant women to smoke pot. WOW! Anyone think that it is ethical/moral to force a fetus get stoned, too? Also, at least a few of the pot smokers are against abortion, but think it's OK to FORCE that fetus to get high?
I know for a fact it is medically wrong for women to drink and/or smoke cigarettes while pregnant, and the pot users would point that out to us in a New York minute. But pot is a "natural" plant, so it's OK to smoke it while pregnant. That's just totally bogus.

ms_sassy Thank you and I agree with you that jail may be to harsh of a punishment.

2 times a day minimum, sometimes 3. rarely do i ever even smoke enough to get high. at nite once in a while i do, or with friends. like we agreed we can learn to drink, you can learn to smoke. the effects of the amount i smoke are gone within an hour. so no, i dont drive areound jville high. gfan, ive acknowledged all the potential downsides of pot smoking to the individual. weve been going back and forth for a week now. can you at least acknowledge that there are indeed responsible pot smokers out there??

I used to know a chick who could belly-dance to the entire drum solo of In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida. Can any of the woman pot heads here do that?

thekid..., you smoke pot three times a day and somehow you don't do any driving while high?

Touché, sorry. When I'm wrong, I say I'm wrong.

I just hope that one day it won't be illegal for otherwise law-abiding citizens to be in possession of pot.

gfan, yer worried about me callin you a chimp?? like you havent called pot smokers derogatory names?? you said that i stated i drive around janesville high, which is untrue, so i believe that falls under the category of 'do not libel anyone'. but whatever. people arent ignorant for not knowing something, people are ignorant for not learning something.....

No point is it is ILLEGAL otherwise they would of never arrested these people.

the point, sorry, is that it SHOULDN'T be illegal to smoke pot.

thekid...., what's with the name-calling?

Yeah, sure, people who smoke pot always step outside when they want to go one toke over the line, sweet Jesus.

Not jail, but maybe community service, like picking up things along the highway, or handing out hymnals at church.

Yes put them in jail. We as a society have been finding more and more reasons not to discipline people. You break the law pay the price, if you think jail is wrong, then atleast make the penalty large enough to discourage it. In the end it's illegal and it's a crime and needs to be treated as such.

jail, sorry? you want your taxes to increase to house people who aren't harming anyone? I don't get some people's logic sometimes.

I CERTAINLY don't want jail as the consequence. It doesn't make ANY sense.

Jail should be where the rapists, murderers and sex offenders go while they wait for trial. It should not be the housing for minor unpaid traffic tickets or someone who smokes a little pot at home.

thekid3744 I agree you should be able to smoke it in your own house and I will stand by you as soon as you can purchase it over the counter. Until then it illegal and if you smoke it your a criminal. So if you get caught or anybody gets caught then it should be straight to jail.

News flash: Kids are breathing when they're sleeping.

funny gfan you say i duck an dodge. i already replied chimp. pay attention. but here it is again for you...

gfan i cant refute the downsides of smoke in ones lungs. im not a dr. i could post numerous sites here that will dispute the actual 'toxicity' of pot smoke, but you wont read them anyways. is that your reason for keeping it illegal?? the POSSIBLE smoke in a kids lungs when smoked in a responsible adults house. cuz tobacco is legal, rite?? we can smoke tobacco in our houses without ventilation and we KNOW that causes cancer. i have acknowledged all the potential negatives to an individual who smokes pot. i can debate them all, but ive acknowledged the possibility. you ignorant people who refuse to listen, will not acknowledge any of the POTENTIAL benefits any of the smokers have stated. there have been numerous people to post on here saying they smoke responsibly. but you ignorant fools cant even acknowledge that. you will always label us because you think you are all righteous and crap. look gfan, hannah, any other anti-potters that still dont get the point. im going to type this ONE last time. PLEASE, put yer good eyes on and see if you can comprehend this. i dont care what argument you have to keep pot illegal. i have the exact same argument AND MORE for your currently legal AND GOVT SUBSIDIZED alcohol and tobacco. as long as i am legally allowed to drive to a bar or liquor store and chose to get intoxicated with alcohol and only a valid picture ID then i ABSO-FREAKIN-LUTELY should have the option to intoxicate myself within the confines of my own house with marijuana if i so chose. ignorance and hypocrisy...im not the criminal....

Secondhand smoke.

thekid...'s still duckin' and dodgin' the house pollution problem.

ms...sassy, still wondering if that's possible. Even if it is, I doubt if it's the norm. It's the reverse of drinking: the great majority of drinkers are not hard-core, it's the reverse with the weed.

I don't know about pre-employment drug screens, but I suspect that one would still be subjected to testing if an accident on-the-job occurs.

I didn't realize Barney Frank, Ron Paul, Tammy Baldwin et al were pushing for the decriminalization of pot. If this passes will companies no longer drug test for it as well?

http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion/edito...

Well, gazettefan, imho, there is a BIG difference between being a stoner and being a pot smoker...a stoner is someone who smokes so much pot that they can't function and likes it that way (as in: the stumbling drunk). A pot smoker gets high, relaxes and becomes one with the couch, while laughing with friends and likes it that way (as in: social drinker)

No offense to any pot smokers out there who have a different view. This is my opinion only...

see, I didn't want to put myself into "that" category, because you suddenly have a different opinion of me...

oh well, I can deal with your suspicious mind just fine, gazettefan...bring it. :)

westside, who did the admitting? and what did they admit to? (pronoun reference)

westside, I don't know if ms...sassy is really a stoner/marijuana-smoker (no difference). Might be a put-on.

Sometimes I wonder if she's that prominent council-wannabe in town.

hannah
May 5, 2008 at 6:45 p.m.....what did that post have to do with anything???

I know gazettefan! i couldn't believe my eyes when i read some of the things ms_sassy wrote! i am happy you admitted that you are like us:)

well, gazettefan, I've never had a problem reading YOUR posts. If you prefer IE, go for it. I was just surprised that people had such troubles with their posts...

I have some fingers that get away from me, sometimes, too...but some of the posts are just plain and simply illegible. Not that I'm grading anybody for grammar, of course... :)

As with most things, content and ability to convey your thoughts is of utmost importance.

This post was done with Mozilla. It does have a spell checker. Maybe I'll use Mozilla just for gazetteXtra. The fonts and other graphics aren't as thick, though -as on IE.

LOL...ok, you got me. Surprised you though, didn't I?

And I wouldn't do well with a 5th of alcohol. It makes me do stupid things that I regret later, as opposed to the peace pipe. :)

Either way, I DO NOT agree that pot makes a person goofy. I think a person is or is not goofy LONG before they smoke pot.

It's too late ms...sassy, you slipped-up and admitted to be a marijuana smoker but not a stoner earlier here. Do I have to look for it or are going to stop denying it. Also, re: the Fifth, you're better off drinking a fifth than taking the Fifth.

as I've said in previous posts, I plead the 5th.

and yes, I think you'll like Mozilla Firefox better...it's safer surfing, on top of the spell check ;)

Wow!!! ohmygod!!! I just caught up on things since I left several hours ago.

OK, what were the questions? Oh yeah, well it's baloney that pot fumes aren't toxic. And of course there's the ongoing claim that smoking pot doesn't make you goofy -long term and short term. I'm still not buying it. ms...sassy, do you really smoke pot? how much?

And I think thekid.... called me ignorant. Does that sum it up?

And I might try Mozilla. I like spellcheckers.

and you didn't invite me...lol...just kidding, I've plead the 5th, remember?

tis ok, kid, I don't think I need your help, but I'm just waiting for someone to say something productive...I'm kind of bored here. Maybe I'll do some self-improvement of my own...Read a book? Some research for improving my resume? Perhaps some reading on another website to see what else is going on in the world...I don't know, but since I am creative, I'm sure I will come up with something dynamic!

id help sassy, but i just smoked a bong while i did some yoga, and i turned dumb

btw: hannah, it's NEVER too late to receive an education! Now, more than ever, the DWD may have an opportunity to assist with your dream of being a vet. You no longer need the wishes from your parents and if you are intelligent enough to get into a good college, they have accommodations available for those who qualify (cognitive learning disabilities, ADHD, etc.)

Don't sell yourself short, but don't blame us for your inability to form sentences, either.

Now, back to pot...it's so much better than alcohol for so many reasons. Who else wants to jump in? officerfriendly1 where are you?

I don't agree with you on anything, hannah, except that you accused the wrong person of being a pole dancer.

Does Hannah ever shut up?

I can't believe what I just read. Hannah, please educate yourself prior to accusing people of things.

If you don't know what I am talking about this time, then re-read your posts and my posts. You have just taken making uncalled for comments into the realm of libelous. Re-read the rules: "Do not libel anyone. Libel is writing something false about someone that damages that person's reputation."

If you don't have any thoughts on the subject at hand, please don't comment. thanks.

hannah, I've NEVER been to a strip club, danced with a pole or pretended to BE a stripper/dancer or accepted anything including money or drinks in exchange for sexual favors.

How DARE you.

You should be ASHAMED of yourself for putting those comments on here.

hannah, you just proved my point. either you are a good person who chooses either to smoke pot or not or you are a bad person who chooses either to smoke pot or not.

The pot is not the deciding factor.

The individual person's value system and moral character is the deciding factor. Pot is merely a plant that people get WAY too worked up over...

so you blog all day instead of working? interesting. isn't that stealing from your boss? sounds, to me, like perhaps you might be one of those awful pot smoking thieves who are lazy and not taking care of their business kind of criminals.

tsk tsk

hannah, thanks for not tellin on me;), there is no test for driving. you cant tell if someone smoked last hour or last week. thats one of the reasons they keep it illegal is cuz they cant tell that info, and it would confuse them. thats why they wont legalize indrustrial hemp, even tho there is no smoking high, because it will confuse the coppers. even if i smoke it in my own house hannah i still need it legal. where do i get it when its illegal?? the street. and do i risk arrest by being in possession and driving it to my house?? yes. legalize it and let us buy it from a govt regulated source....

yes, Hannah, that is Internet Explorer. You may want to download Mozilla Firefox. It is free to download and is much safer and easier to use than IE. the link, since you admit you are not computer savvy is: http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/

click on the download free button and wait for it to download and follow the installation instructions.

I think you may find it easier to use.

purchasing pot to be smoked in the privacy of one's own home, hannah. that's why.

no...I didn't call you stupid. I said you are putting your toe over the how much I can tolerate from stupid people line...because you were insinuating that I am a pole dancer. That was a very very stupid comment. Sorry if you can't take the heat when you make insinuations that don't add up.

To clarify for other readers, there was a huge debate on another article regarding Screamin' Meemee's and women who were dancers there and were charged with prostitution. I was trying to educate some people as to why some women would become strippers. I wasn't agreeing with stripping, pole dancing or prostitution. If you knew anything at all about me, you would see why I am so upset that you "accused" me of being a pole dancer. Let's leave that subject alone, ok?

well, Hannah, to get down to the VERY BASICS of communicating, it's not necessarily how grammatically correct one's post is, it is about how the listener/reader will be able to follow the thoughts and how clearly you present your thoughts and views.

To that end, may I suggest that you proofread your comments before you click that 2nd button to actually POST your comment? I give people a chance to be coherent. If, after the 3rd attempt to understand their post, I still cannot make heads or tails of what it is they are actually attempting to say, then I make a conscious decision that it is not worth trying to put the commas, periods, capital letters in their proper locations because they are not that invested in making themselves clear to the reader in the first place. Then, I go on to the next comment and see if they have anything of value to say.

To be clear, I didn't contradict myself. Perhaps you should re-read other posts as well as your own.

Hannah, what do you use to access the internet?

how come you wont answer ms_sassys question gfan?? what diff does it make in court if my lawyer smoked pot last nite??

I would never choose anyone based on that fact alone, gazettefan. It isn't the pot that makes you a good or bad person, a good or bad doctor, a good or bad attorney...

It's much more basic than that! If you are a good person and you smoke pot, then you are a good person.

If you are a bad person and you smoke pot, then you are a bad person.

Plain and simple.

I'll be back. I have to go now. Goodby all. This'll give some people time to grapple with the tough question of tobacco smoke and pot smoke in the house with children.

UM.....NO....don't EVER put me in a category of being a pole dancer.

Hannah, you have just about put your toe over the how-much-I-can-tolerate-from-stupid-people line.

I would NEVER reduce my self worth to a dollar dance from a horny, sex-starved man. EVER.

gfan i cant refute the downsides of smoke in ones lungs. im not a dr. i could post numerous sites here that will dispute the actual 'toxicity' of pot smoke, but you wont read them anyways. is that your reason for keeping it illegal?? the POSSIBLE smoke in a kids lungs when smoked in a responsible adults house. cuz tobacco is legal, rite?? we can smoke tobacco in our houses without ventilation and we KNOW that causes cancer. i have acknowledged all the potential negatives to an individual who smokes pot. i can debate them all, but ive acknowledged the possibility. you ignorant people who refuse to listen, will not acknowledge any of the POTENTIAL benefits any of the smokers have stated. there have been numerous people to post on here saying they smoke responsibly. but you ignorant fools cant even acknowledge that. you will always label us because you think you are all righteous and crap. look gfan, hannah, any other anti-potters that still dont get the point. im going to type this ONE last time. PLEASE, put yer good eyes on and see if you can comprehend this. i dont care what argument you have to keep pot illegal. i have the exact same argument AND MORE for your currently legal AND GOVT SUBSIDIZED alcohol and tobacco. as long as i am legally allowed to drive to a bar or liquor store and chose to get intoxicated with alcohol and only a valid picture ID then i ABSO-FREAKIN-LUTELY should have the option to intoxicate myself within the confines of my own house with marijuana if i so chose. ignorance and hypocrisy...im not the criminal....

ms...sassy, well if you can think I'm an idiot, then I can think you're foolish. But that wasn't my point.

I was appreciating your info on using another browser that spell checks here, interesting. I might try it. Explorer doesn't have that feature, not that I can see.

My question was reasonable. It's a situation where you only know what I told you. Why don't you just answer it? I'm sure I now why. Because if you're honest, there's no way you'd choose the stoner.

Yes, to be honest, Hannah, I would prefer to hang out with intelligent people who perhaps smoke pot (perhaps they don't...it doesn't matter) than with people who didn't like English. My father was an English teacher. I tend to choose intelligent people to be friends with. Intelligence is not necessarily a requirement to be my friend, but being coherent is. After all, if you don't make sense to me, how can I communicate with you?? It's just common sense.

gazettefan, you're an IDIOT if you thought I would go in to have brain surgery and NOT know everything I could about the surgeon!! I would definitely not have the surgery if I didn't have access to his medical education.

I truly hope that was a trick question and you don't think I'm that foolish.

Perhaps the spell checker depends on what you use to access the internet? I use Mozilla Firefox. In the comment box it underlines the word in red dots if it's misspelled. I haven't used Internet Explorer for a long time, so I don't know if it has anything to do with that or not. Someone can inform me if you have the ability to break away from the blather here about pot. (I can be very dimensional and take interest in many different things, not just the gazette comments.)

ms....sassy, here's a question re: pot smoking professional people:

You are going into brain surgerery. You can choose one of two doctors. All you know about them is that one is a stoner and one isn't. Who do you choose?

ms...sassy bailed again. Sooner or later she does that.

Too bad, I'd like her to explain the spellchecker here.

I'm begging you to tell me what difference it would make in court if my attorney chooses to be a pot smoker or not...

Also, I have absolutely NO CLUE who any of the people on the forum or in the article are...your guess is as good as mine if they can be trusted. I, for one, do not give my trust to just anybody. Trust is earned.

and there IS spell check in this forum, you just have to understand the dotted line under the word, but how should I know, since according to Hannah, she's more intelligent than I am. Go figure. And this is not going to turn into an intelligence contest, because I am done with the blather here. Either you get it or you don't. And both sides think they get it. There is really no point in continuing, as I don't plan on changing my opinion anytime soon, and I don't get that anyone on the "other" team is switching, either. I won't lose sleep over it.

I wish everyone a good day.

Sue you, ms...sassy?!!! Do you know a lawyer who isn't on the stink-weed? Ha, ha.

Hannah, is that what crafty meant? I didn't get it.

Back to you ms...sassy, do you know thekid...? Can he be trusted?

Not if he's tokin' the demon-weed.

this is just getting ridiculous. I don't have any answers about driving high and how to determine if they were under the influence or not. All I know is that what you read in the papers is not what the typical user goes through. Hey, gazettefan, you cannot argue with that, as that was your defense in a previous post regarding alcohol.

I don't drive if I've smoked and I don't subject minors to the smoke and I am a responsible person, as are my friends and family with whom I associate who either drink alcohol, smoke pot or smoke cigarettes. I can't attest to the views or actions of others. Again...don't categorize me or label me. I can't be defined. And I don't categorize others, unless they are just ignorant and close-minded. or don't know how to spell and punctuate. so sue me.

Stoners think that THC staying in their systems after the drug effect is supposedly over should work in their favor. But it shouldn't. If it's in your system, you don't get the benefit of the doubt. Why should you?

Hannah is speaking to the issue, crafty. What's with the insults?

Refute the allegation that cigarette smoke and pot smoke are harmful to the innocents in a home. thekid... hightailed it, will you hightail it too?

with regard to your comment, gazettefan, of the connection of father/son in this article, it is likely that it was the breeding of stupidity, which cannot be necessarily contributed to marijuana...OR regulated, unfortunately. I wish there was a law to prevent stupid people from procreating...

Hannah, you are so despicable. What about your life sucks so much you need to harass us? No I will not answer your questions, you make no sense.
GAZETTEFAN IS HANNAH PEOPLE! Ignore the monster and maybe it will go away?

thekid..., refute the allegation that cigarette smoke and pot smoke is harmful to the innocents in a house.

Do you think thekid... has a special ventilation system for visitation day? Come to think of it, how come you didn't mention the one you cited until now? mmmmmmmmmmm

ms...sassy, even if it's true in that case, how true is it over all. Not likely to be a widespread idea. Hannah's posts are readable and inciteful. You might be thinking of thekid...'s posts.

99% gfan?? show your sources?? i love how when you talk about alcohol its always the rosiest picture you can paint. yet when you talk about potsmokers were all losers who wear headbands while driving high with our kids in the back wreaking havoc on society. you should get yo head out of yo a$$, its a beautiful day out....

This thing is multi-generational, and not in a good way.

hannah, you asked, so I'm answering. I don't answer your posts, because for the most part, I can't read your posts due to misspellings, lack of punctuation and lack of insight of content. When speaking of basements, in homes, there are ventilation systems in place for that very reason. My friends are conscientious and have installed systems so they may have friends that smoke (cigarettes or pot) and not affect their children upstairs. They are available. Check it out.

Yes, it looks the Johnsons are father and son. So much for the safety of innocents!!!

Saying that the innocent are safe from tobacco smoke and pot smoke at home (regardess of location) is like saying that we are all safe from industrial pollution because the pollutants aren't expelled on our block.

More than 99% of alcohol consumption at home is without the kind of activity that ends up in the newspaper. Alcohol at home doesn't naturally get into the systems of the innocent while tobacco smoke and marijuana smoke does.

ms_sassy thank you for explaining that smoking at home does not mean sitting next to child. i cant believe we have to explain that to someone. gfan: im sorry if i understated what i said before. i really didnt mean to understate it. and you say 'While, with all the negative comparisons to alcohol, alcohol consumed in its usually civilized manner at home causes no harm to the innocent.' please, thats well thought out. you have no way to judge the outcome of an 8 year old watching his parents drink 'civilized'. look in todays police report there and youll see 9 arrests for drunk driving. with a grand total of 15 offenses between the 9. out of those 9 people how many would you guess watched their parents drink 'civilized'??

The point is that just the "normal" use of pot at home compared the normal use of alcohol at home leaves the innocent vulnerable to the dangers of pot smoke while nothing gets into the systems of others from alcohol. There ARE toxins in pot smoke and what about the "high" effect on young minds?

It's not possible to smoke pot or tobacco at home without the smoke and its toxins getting into the systems of others.

I just read a story about a woman and her boyfriend...the woman shot her 8-year old daughter in the thigh with a bb gun to win a $1 bet from her boyfriend after they had been drinking heavily at home.

STUPIDITY knows know bounds. I don't think you can say it's the consumption of anything to make a claim that people have/use common sense, when the reality is that many people today do not have/use common sense sober or intoxicated with ANY substance...

as has been discussed in other posts, the smoke of marijuana does not contain toxins. Everyone I know that smokes pot who is a parent, chooses to smoke in their basement after bedtime for their child, out on their patio or porch, in their garage, etc.

No one that I have EVER associated with, smokes pot in front of children (their own or someone else's) and uses common sense with regard to their adult habits.

Consuming alcohol in front of children does not mean that they are not harming the innocent. I have seen MANY a drunk bring their child to a bar and drive their child back home after tipping back a few in the child's presence and subjecting the child to adult language. Legal doesn't mean right.

Haeight over at the other blog is grasping at straws on this one too.

http://www.gazettextra.com/news/2008/feb...

Looks like thekid... is on the run with this little turn of events. Where's your safe place for puffin' the demon-weed now?!!!

Thanks for your kind words, ms...sassy, but what about pot smoke in the house getting into the lungs, blood streams, and brains of babies and children?

While, with all the negative comparisons to alcohol, alcohol consumed in its usually civilized manner at home causes no harm to the innocent.

gazettefan, btw, my wishes for a lovely vacation (or business trip, or whatever) were genuine. I am not so shallow as to not like someone even though we may disagree on opinions.

my explanation is that since no one that I know personally is willing to put their livelihood on the line on this issue, most people will continue to smoke pot in the privacy of their own homes regardless of whether or not it is legalized. Since no one smoking pot that I know personally is harming anyone else, no one is falling asleep in their couches with burning joints (contrary to most con-legalization cohorts' beliefs) or in their soup, pizza or mostocolli, no one is robbing banks to get more weed to support their non-addiction, and no children are being neglected in order to stay high, local LE won't be called or necessary and life will continue as always. I'm not saying I'm happy about it, but life doesn't always go my way. I can sleep at night either way (and work tomorrow and pay taxes and support the local businesses with my purchases, etc.). So which category do you want to box me in to now?

thekid..., understating your meaning does not reduce the magnitude of your meaning. Are you going to spin wheels here too?

Also, I'm not feeling comfortable with the legalization of pot for home use idea. It has many or even more of the problems that come with tobacco smoke, even when the "high" effects are excluded.

http://www.gazettextra.com/news/2008/feb...

gfan before you go blowin smoke up peoples a$$es you should double check. a)i NEVER once said i drive around janesville after i smoke. 2)toxicity of pot smoke?? why do you care if we smoke in our own house?? not to mention the 60+ THERAPUTIC compounds that have been isolated out of the 400+ in marijuana. and d) unlike yerself, i will admit when im wrong, like the post i made a few days ago where i said you werent ignorant. my bad.

Let's see, ms...sassy: There is no popluar, substantial groundswell for a legalization of marijuana movement. And there are only two possible explanations for this:

Your explanation as stated in your earlier post.

My explanation is that there is no nonstereotypical constituency that would or could support and justify such a movement.

Which explanation should I choose? mmmmmmmmmmm

(Earlier post) I don't know, ms...sassy, sounds to me like you got a break on getting a ticket for a moving violation. Whenever that happens to me, I'm grateful. Even if the cop was looking for something more serious, he still could have given you a ticket -a real day ruiner.

I'll respond to your later post later -if that's OK with thekai.

while I acknowledge your post was to thekai, gazettefan, I must say that I disagree with your comment that "non-stereotypical smokers" would call for legalization of marijuana.

The mere fact that marijuana remains illegal is the very reason that otherwise law-abiding citizens who have private practices in law, the medical field, own businesses in the construction industry, are holding licenses to practice their profession of choice and if they get "outed" as being in favor of legalization of marijuana, risk their business, licenses, or fear that if people are aware of what they do in their private lives will lose respect for the position that they hold in the community and they will be, indeed, putting their livelihood on the line. Not too many people are willing to risk that, as the stereotypes are obviously still too difficult to overcome and everyone in Janesville knows that "the tom toms start banging" whenever there is something "juicy" to spread around about a company or a person that will draw negativity. Janesville is VERY much struggling with the small town mentality of everybody knowing everybody else's private business.

I am NOT willing to put my life on the line in support of legalizing marijuana and becoming known as the "stoner" you and many others so quickly want to label me as, regardless of my occupation, my intelligence, whom I choose to regard as friends or what vehicle I drive. It's time to stop pigeon-holing everyone into Category A, B, C or D and accept that many people cannot/do not belong in one category or the other...."stoners" included! :)

thekai,

On the contrary, it appears that long posts are not always read all the way through, if read at all. Stoners are especially guilty of being lax or lazy when it comes to reading posts. In this debate, thekid... kept asking me the same questions that I had already answered in long posts, and short posts, as well. Also, though I don't believe in stacking posts, I believe it's OK to post as the thoughts come. And it's easier for others to read shorter posts for the very same reason you have figured out a way to have spaces between your paragraphs -a feature that is not automatically included in posting here.

The toxicity of pot smoke is severe. It's a problem that stands on its own. The hair-spitting between pot and tobacco smoke is spurious. What is the ratio of THC consumption in non-smoke form to smoke form?

The addictiveness of pot has been established fairly recently from the Comprehensive Drug Act of 1970 to the present. Again, the problem stands on its own. Comparisons to other drugs are spurious.

OK, so there are non-pot smokers who support legalizing pot. I will no longer attribute the negative characteristics of pot smoking to the category of pro-pot smokers but instead only to stoners. Let the stoners speak for themselves. (Your clear and articulate posts work against pot smoking when compared with the posts written by stoners.)

Did I have to re-state the problems intrinsic to pot smoking to avoid your ice cream analogy?

As for what pot smoking does for a person's ability to think clearly: This debate has practically gotten thekid... elected as the provisional mayor of Stoner Nation. Read his posts, which include his confession that he tools around Janesville while whacked-out on pot. What a choice! What an electorate!

Again, all this positive stuff about who smokes pot can't be taken seriously. If there were any truth to it, we'd know about the non-stereotypical smokers, and the urge to legalize pot would have a dominant presence in American life. As it is, the matter is on the fringes where it belongs.

great post, thekai! I'm definitely NOT a "stoner" either, but would like to see marijuana legalized as well. Being a marijuana smoker and being a "stoner" are two VERY separate things. I resent being called a stoner and having my "ability to think clearly" questioned. I am a very intelligent woman and am not ashamed of it! So there! *gives raspberries to gazettefan* LOL

*sigh* oh boy, here we go...(deep breath, for patience) gazettefan, did you read my comment as complaining? interesting. I was merely noting that local LE WANTS SO BADLY to make the "BIG BUST" by pulling over drivers for ANY and EVERY MINOR infraction. I think that borders on a violation of my rights to privacy. Common Sense dictates that I will get it fixed tomorrow after the store opens...

I am a responsible driver with one speeding ticket and zero accidents where I was at fault and zero revocations, reckless driving, DWI or ANY OTHER offenses since I received my driving privileges 27 years ago. It is a shame that it has come to this, where I cannot drive after 11 pm on a Friday or Saturday night without EXPECTING to be pulled over.

Gazettefan,
I would like to start by saying that obviously I have no power in these forums, and even if I did have any power, there would be no rule about posting two, three, or more times in a row. There are no restrictions and you may post however you like, it may look better, though, if you consolidate as much as you can. I don't think most people who are still reading this have any problem reading the full length of longer posts. This includes members from any side of the argument.
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I do not doubt that Marijuana's smoke is fairly similar in toxicity to the smoke of tobacco. Do not forget, though, that cigarettes have many additives, such as arsenic, which make them highly more toxic. It should be noted that Marijuana does not have to be smoked in order to feel its effects.
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The debate that Marijuana is addictive has been ongoing since the early twentieth century, and maybe even before that. During the time period that Marijuana was first made illegal in the United States, several other more harmful drugs were also being used in the United States. Opium, Morphine, and Cocaine to name a few. All these drugs are highly addictive, and Marijuana got thrown into the same category. The fact of the matter is, though, that Marijuana has no physically addictive qualities. Marijuana can be slightly psychologically addictive, however, most people view that as a joke. While Hollywood should never be considered a credible source, this is a quote from the movie Half Baked, which illustrates the real life difference between psychological and physical addiction... [edited] "Cocaine Addict: Marijuana is not a drug. I used to [] for coke. Now that's an addiction. You ever [] for marijuana?" If you are not convinced, then do some research of your own. I'm well educated on this topic though, and I can assure you that you will find what I've said to be right.
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More people than just "hard core smokers" complain about Marijuana being illegal. Please remember that I haven't smoked Marijuana in years, and I still wish it to be legal. You say that Marijuana being illegal is a good thing because it motivates people to quit. By your analogy, it would be a good thing to make ice cream illegal, because that would motivate people to stop eating it and promote a healthier diet.
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I do not take kindly to your insults about my intelligence, or the other members posting in here. You can not always be right, and sometimes you need to look at the real facts. Set aside your prejudices and stereotypes. Stand in the middle and judge both sides fairly. Do not fear that which is unknown, be eager to research and learn as much as you can. You have no scientific data, and none exists in the world, that supports the claim that smoking Marijuana causes long term brain damage.

thekai, the nature of the marijuana plant and the manner in which it is smoked matches or surpasses the danger that comes from tobacco smoke.

Marijuana is addictive.

Good news about 90% of tobacco smokers wanting to quit. That fact supports banning smoking in public places which would also include pot smoking.

And your facts about people just deciding to quit pot smoking means that only the hard-core stoners are still smoking it and complaining about its illegality. It's also true that pot's illegality is what helps motivate people to quit smoking it. That's a good reason to keep it illegal.

It's true that many people who drink are nicotine freaks: The percentage of people who smoke and drink is greater than the people who don't smoke and but drink.

There are probably some people who smoke pot and don't fit the stereotype but I'm not buying this claim of a mass aristocracy of secret pot smokers. Illegal or not illegal the aristocracy would be a more evident and obvious force and there'd be a substantial movement for legalization -there is no such thing.

Any comparison with alcohol does not support legalizing pot. Such is a fallacious argument.

Any long-term use of pot causes permanent damage to a person's ability to think clearly. Witness the pro-pot posts on this site.

Wow, the two stoners on the other blog get pulled over by the cops, get a break, and all they can do is complain!!!

All my blog buddies should have a good spring -even the stoners and stonettes.

Well, ms...sassy, you can start by dispensing with the sarcasm!!!

Just kidding.

gazettefan, I'm pleading the 5th on being a "stoner", but I sure hope you enjoy your travels. It's beautiful weather today in Janesville. Hopefully it will still be lovely upon your return! I welcome Spring with anticipation of "new" attitudes, "new" employment/economy opportunities and "refreshed" community within the Gazette Extra comments! :)

thekai, who put you in charge of the blog rules? If you look again, you'll see that my posts were left at substantially three different time periods, which I think is fair.

Besides, I've noticed that a lot of the stoners on this blog can't or refuse to read long posts or are incapable of comprehending long posts.

I have to stop now, but I'll respond to the entirety of your thoughtful post later.

Gazettefan,
Please include all of your replies in one post. If you are on the move and can not answer everything at once, one post to give us the heads up (if you want to) until you can reply to everyone all at once is sufficient.
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In response to your comment about people who smoke weed being in as much trouble as people who smoke cigarettes... I believe that statement to be inaccurate. People who smoke cigarettes usually don't share their cigarettes with a group of other people, and also are addicted. From my observation, younger smokers around my age group go through about two packs of cigarettes every three days (average). I have noticed that as people get older, they tend to smoke more cigarettes. Marijuana is not addictive like cigarettes. I would say that about 90% of the smokers I know don't like smoking and want to quit. Of that 90%, 50% have tried to quit one or more times (and obviously failed.) On the other hand, I know a lot of people who have said that they were done with weed, or that they were going to take a break for a week, month, etc, and were able to follow through without any problems. Smoke from Marijuana is not ingested in the Marijuana user's body nearly as much as smoke from cigarettes, in a cigarette smoker's body. Also, you continue to stereotype, saying that all people who smoke weed are probably also "nicotine freaks." You might as well say that all people who drink are probably nicotine freaks.
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I believe the biggest reason that most people quit smoking Marijuana is because it is illegal. There are many regular users, though, who you probably wouldn't even suspect of smoking Marijuana.
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Your short term effects should also include a feeling of euphoria. It is true that there is a slight reduction in motor skills, you have a dry mouth, etc etc. You should look into the short term effects of alcohol though. If we considered them to be insignificant enough to make alcohol legal, then surely Marijuana should also be legal. The long term side effects are from studies on heavy users, not average users. The reduced sperm production actually comes from smoking the seeds, and not the flowers. Most people know that the seeds have very little THC, and aren't worth smoking. No studies of Marijuana users have ever showed that Marijuana causes any kind of permanent brain damage.

None of the pro-stoner blather changes any of this from Hannah's post:

SHORT-TERM EFFECTS:

Dry mouth and throat

Increased heart rate

Bloodshot eyes

Impaired learning, memory, judgment and complex motor skills

Difficulty speaking, listening, thinking, and problem solving

Anxiety or panic attacks

Paranoia in some users

Distorted perception: (sight, sound, time, touch)

LONG-TERM EFFECTS:

Psychological dependence

Asthma

Cancer of the lungs - as with anything smoked

Lowered sperm production & decreased sperm mobility

Immune system damage

There is some evidence of long-term memory damage from “prolonged use”.

sounds so yummy i'll go get high"

------------------------

And there might be something Darwinian about this side-effect:

Lowered sperm production & decreased sperm mobility

thekai, the great majority of people who try pot soon quit. The smokers left over become chronics with all the attendant problems of chronic pot smoking.

crafty, what questions?

Read my entire posts.

Check this out and broaden your knowledge of the demon weed.

http://www.gazettextra.com/news/2008/feb...

I'm on the road and only have brief chances to catch up on stoner wisdom. I'll be catching up with you soon, so don't worry.

Hey, crafty, some of us actually travel. You stoners should start thinking about the direct harm that pot fumes do to your bodies. You are all in as much trouble as tobacco smokers. As a matter of fact you are all probably nicotine freaks too.

Looks like you guys got Gfan backed into a corner. Fight of flight, looks like he chose flight...Oh and he did not answer ANY questions, at any time.

nice post too ms_sassy. thats rational, locical thinking. bravo.

good post thekai. gfan wont actually answer yer question though, hell just type some ignorant stereotype and say he did. then later, he will repeat said stereotype again, and tell everyone else theyre wrong without even exploring the possibility that theres a happy middle.

Seabee, I read it that way all the time.. the wording is a bit tricky. It's pretty funny, though.
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Gazettefan, for the record, it has been several years since I smoked Marijuana. You can call me a stoner if you want, because I do believe that Marijuana should be legal... but by the generally accepted definition, I'm not a stoner. I like how you keep using stereotypes to back up your opinions though... not all people who smoke weed have a short attention span. It has been proven, though, that alcohol can cause severe brain damage and memory loss. Could that be a reason you keep repeating yourself?

Seabee, then maybe he would stop his antics and STOP being so paranoid that people are out to get us....lol

LOL Seabee! I wish!

thekai said: "Someone under the influence of Marijuana is no more paranoid than someone who is drinking under age. If it were legal, you would remove these paranoias."

I totally agree.

I also agree with the comment: "I know several people who love to smoke Marijuana, but are not big drinkers at all. I know even more people who like to drink a lot, but only because Marijuana happens to be illegal, and they want to obey the law."

I believe firmly that someone who is high from marijuana is much MUCH more likely to participate in behavior that is much more socially acceptable and be able to conduct themselves in a mature manner than someone intoxicated by alcohol.

In my experience, women high on pot certainly don't lift their shirts to strange men for plastic beads like they do if they are drunk.

I know this isn't about whether marijuana should be legalized since alcohol is, and to be certain I know this article isn't even about whether or not marijuana should be legalized in the first place. I think that a person over the age of 18 (or even 21, if the government likes that age better) should be able to consume marijuana. IF it turns out that an INDIVIDUAL person cannot handle its affects and does something contrary to acceptable norms, that person should be accountable for his/her actions. It seems like people are scared it will turn out like alcohol and tobacco has, but I think that is unlikely, given the very nature of marijuana in the first place. Its calming, soothing, stress-reducing effects contradict that logic.

You stoners don't have to agree with me, but don't keep asking me questions that I've already answered. You come off as having attention span problems.

This has nothing to do with anyone's post but... when I first read the headline I thought it said "Bush nets 8 pounds of pot" hehe.

gazettefan,
You aren't fighting facts with facts. We have provided more than enough reasons that Marijuana should be legal, but you continue to stick to your old fashioned name calling and scare tactics.
No one has ever put a baby in the oven because they were high off weed.
No one has ever been compelled by the effects of Marijuana to go on a shooting rampage.
Someone under the influence of Marijuana is no more paranoid than someone who is drinking under age. If it were legal, you would remove these paranoias.
I know several people who love to smoke Marijuana, but are not big drinkers at all. I know even more people who like to drink a lot, but only because Marijuana happens to be illegal, and they want to obey the law.
You say it is possible to fake dignity while under the influence of alcohol... first of all, any person who already has dignity does not need to fake it. I have yet to see a drunk person look like he or she has any dignity, but I've seen many people who have been high that have a lot of dignity. Get off of the stereo-type that only people with natty hair, holes in their jeans and shirts, and rarely shower smoke weed.
In reference to being high with a face full of tortellini... I've seen drunks in far worse situations than stoners. You can even look up some of those very embarrassing moments online.
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I'd like to see some reasons, backed by research, explaining why it is ok for alcohol to be legal, but it isn't ok for Marijuana to be legal.

i shoulda never looked on here before i signed off:) gfan, thats actually a great point. i will agree 110% with you that 'Even if pot is legalized, it will be banned in the same places that tobacco smoke is banned. Most likely, pot smoking would be confined to a person's home.' why shouldnt a MAN who lives responsibley in all aspects of society, other than 'illigel' possession of a plant, be allowed to intoxicate himself in his HOME as he choses??

Even if pot is legalized, it will be banned in the same places that tobacco smoke is banned. Most likely, pot smoking would be confined to a person's home.

Aside from the obvious dangers of pot smoke, its fumes are highly toxic.

"pot head, robots, deadbeats, losers, lameasses, Ashley Roachclip, responsibility problems and grooming problems, lazy, irresponsible, forgetful, paranoid, unambitious, hungry, huge problem for the community, greasy, nothing more than a blister on the butt of our society." SO SORRY LADIES, FOR ALL MY NAMECALLING.
"can you post a list of the stoner attorneys in town so if I decide to sue you for impersonating me I can choose a lawyer who isn't on the list?"
"when youre old tell us how your memory is"
"Try looking at people face-down in their tortalini and tell me it's not a negative on society."
"A bunch of stoners out eating amounts to this: brainless, non-sensical chatter (much like your posts) with a glaring absence of good manners and civilized behavior. Eventually, after a short period of time, all the stoners are passed-out face-down in their tortalini."
"Pot smokers konk-out before they smoke enough to kill themselves."
"the fact that you can't grasp the phenomenon of indirect knowledge is telling. This inability is what doesn't allow to comprehend the truth about pot. Instead, you are buried under the weight of your delusions."
"some of these hippies have their headbands on too tight."
"thekid...., you're stoned? I'm shocked, you seem to be making so much sense."
THIS IS MY FAVORITE: "Re: pot heads being drunks too. Be honest, when someone's high on pot they're very consumptive. They're ingest anything to keep that buzz going whether it be more pot, alcohol, or a bag of licorice being passed around in a circle of headband-wearing first-generaton and second-generation hippies."
THIS ONE TOO: "As far as I'm concerned, most pot heads are probably drunks too."
"Where is the study that states many or most pot heads are fine upstanding citizens?"
"Write a post that long while you're as blasted on weed as you usually get."
t's possible to fake dignity under the influence of alcohol; try it while smoking the demon weed, especially with all those burn holes in your t-shirt!"

instead of crafty or i explainin how marijuana puts a fatty layer around your brain cells to help alzheimers patients, why dont you gazettefan, take five minutes of your time and google 'marijuana alzheimers' and read fo yoself. i mean he IS crafty, but he aint makin this up....

Don't they forget that they forgot?

crafty, I'm busy. Why don't you just tell us how weed helps Alzimers patients.

Does it clear up their thinking? (That would be strange.) Or does it just make them feel better?

Gazettefan says "justsay......, old people don't need drug induced Alzimers"
==
==
Marijuana is PROVEN to work better than any other medication for the treatment of this disease. Look it up.

no hannah it doesnt count. if someone laces something you cant blame marijuana. and if some ignorant fool falls asleep with a joint in his hand an burns down the house, are you really gonna blame pot?? if so we should start blaming alcohol for all the traffic fatalities and stop throwing the helpless drunk drivers in jail....

FYI this is from wikipedia [Tetrahydrocannabinol]
.
"There has never been a documented fatality from marijuana or THC overdose."
.
"In order to create a lethal overdose in a human, one would have to consume 1500 pounds in under 15 minutes."

whydoyouask--Glad someone else saw how germane that song is to this discussion!
whydoyousak--
The Germans have nothing to do with this discussion !

Hey thekai, I actually tried to post the lyrics to that song here, but it exceeded the 3,000 character limit and didn't want to split it into multiple posts.

Glad someone else saw how germane that song is to this discussion!

I recommend everyone who has posted here to listen to the song "Irony of it All" by The Streets :-).
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TrojanVirus is my hero!!!!

justsaynotomath-Last post (9:33am)was funny!! Thanks for the laugh <(*_*)> Is your house done yet ? I hope things are going better :)

TrojanVirus187, ABSOLUTELY!

(hay)Kid no one has EVER overdosed on pot.but ya sure as hell can get wrecked on the stuff .

Bueno, hablamos espanol. ?Donde esta el doritos?

?Donde esta el nariz?

thekid...., nice zig-zag.

justsay"sarcasm"notomath: I have just one thing to say: buwahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!
Now where did I put those Doritos???? It sure is heck getting old.....

perfect post trojanvirus. did you all know its possible to overdose on WATER?? not drowning, actually overdose. its called water intoxication. google it. thats rite. you can overdose on water and no one has EVER overdosed on pot. keep yo head up yo a$$ uncle sam. ignorance and hypocrisy. pot smokers ARENT the criminals.

People should smoke pot and drink alcohol at the same time.

Marijuana in itself is not a bad thing. How many times do we read on this website about all of the negatives that happen when someone drinks? People get violent, they crash their cars, they purposely or accidentally cause bodily harm to others, sometimes even killing them. Alcohol consumption *leads* to many harmful things. Any time we see anything on this website about someone being arrested for marijuana possession, it's simply that. They're in trouble simply for owning it, not because it caused them to be violent, drive their vehicle off the road, or causing bodily harm to others.
.
I know several well mannered adults who smoke marijuana, have respectful children with a good future, and hold a full time job all at the same time. It's not just "gang bangers" that smoke pot. More people do it than you know, just more people are more responsible with their life than others.

I saw a police officer questiona man in a bar recently. The picture the officer was holding was the person they were asking if he had seen . . . .

hannah you cant hate on the people who sell it for not payin taxes on it. hate on uncle sam for not collecting taxes on it. i dont sell but ill gladly pay tax on what i buy if it means im no longer a criminal. GLADLY.

milstew47 'get rid of the dopers, the gang bangers,and those damn sagging pants,they look digusting' you have a rite to yo opinion but my opinion is society would be better if we 'get rid of the drinkers, the NASCAR fans, and those damn skin tite pants, they look disgusting'. see how judging never works?? my pants dont sag and im certainly not a gang banger. what i am is a responsible tax paying adult citizen who abides by the laws of society in ALL apsects but one. i smoke pot 3 times a day which i guess makes me a criminal.

justsay......, old people don't need drug induced Alzimers

thats why the jail is overcrowded. 80% is for weed and 15% is traffic offenses. the other five, who knows? they let baby rapers out on personel recogonance. you get caught with a joint they put you away.

The title is, "Because I got High" and the song is sung by Afro Man.
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8 lbs, and it was their biggest bust. Well I'm just going to say that I, "Know someone" who dealt with about half of that amount in a year, and was also small time. By small time, I mean very very small. I'm glad to know that they aren't too efficient in their stoner busting, at least.
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There are many reasons that marijuana should be legal, many of which have already been mentioned. I have faith that in the near future, we will see more advances in the legalization of marijuana.

futureteacher
i agree with you one hundred percent
that is probably the most intelligible thing i've read on this post

And just to enlighten you JUSTSAYNO..while I was in college, I was full of OPTIMISM while I was high....I had never written a better psych paper then after a little smoke. It is amazing how deep you can think....

YES! It is song lyrics, and although I have nothing against a person who chooses to smoke ganga, the song does state the dynamics quite well if it is abused. It is a really funny song, you should look it up. I can't think of the title right now...maybe someone can help me out on that one....

They are song lyrics about the dynamism of smoking pot.

justsaynotomath- and English, "loser" and those are song lyrics.

I was gonna go to work...but then I got high. I was gonna pay my bills but then I got high.
I was gonna clean the house but then I got high.

Get the Oreos!!!

I had heard somewhere before that after the weed in the evidence room is no longer needed cops take it to a secluded location and burn it to get rid of it. I'm not sure if that is true or not but if it is, wouldn't they get a contact buzz?

So what does JVLPD do with the pot? They just have one big party, or do you just put that up on e-bay, for sale?

I am sure no more drugs will be sold from there for at least some time. (?????)

More arrests are expected- certainly.. now that people know who to contact if they need anything and the address as well

Dude - Did anyone see that big STEAMROLLER downtown? I went to get my PAPERS from my steps, and tripped on a POT. I saw a WEED so I went to pull it with a BLUNT instrument when I saw a BOWL of cereal NUGGETS, then I saw a ROACH and decided I was going to blow this JOINT because the DOOBEY bros were in town.

Anyone seen my lighter??

"Dave's not here, man."

Did anyone notice the lack of stock at the doughnut stores since the bust?

Those of you who think marijuana is harmless have obviously never seen the classic "Reefer Madness." I suggest you watch it and learn. ROTFLMAO

thekid.... is crushed!!!

After the case is processed do ya think the cops will spray Ortho weed be gone on it ?

Take a trip and never leave the farm .

Jimmy Buffet is on the guest list too I heard.... ;o)

Yes, and then the monies paid to pay these JPD officers could have been used for them to make a sting on the child preditor that is running around in the venture mini van. And the potheads could all unite in knowing that a portion of the money they spent on their ganga was put to good use, to put away the real criminals.

Might I suggest writing your city and state government reps. If we decriminalize/legalize it will provide jobs, taxes, and more products that will add to the Gross National Product. WIN-WIN

I do believe the debate on whether or not mary j should be legal is on the "smoking hurts everyone" blog....let's not start that again. .. hehe.

how are the police doing there jobs? they don't know who's selling. they only know what the slime bag narcs tell them. they get arrested, can't do the time. so they narc out there dealers for a reduced sentence or dismiss the charges. yeah, good job police.

Hats off to the police dept.At this time it is illegal and they are doing their job.Well done.

I don't agree with marijuana being illegal. It is common knowledge that it is one of the least harmful of all "drugs", and very costly for a country to keep all the users and sellers in jail. While studies have shown that it is possible that smoking it may cause respiratory problems in some, smoking anything can cause harm to your lungs. Look at the effect of almost ANY substance on the human body, including legal drugs, and MOST have far worse negative side effects.
BUT,
This point of view does not change the fact that it is illegal to have or sell or grow marijuana, and if someone decides to ignore that, and take the risk associated with its use, sales, or growth, they may, and probably will, at some time in their life be arrested for it.
I think, most educated people have grown to understand that it is a relatively harmless substance, yet the law will remain unchanged because no one in our government influential enough can, or will stand up for the legalization and be taken as a serious politician. Being an advocate for its legalization is political suicide in these times. It is overlooked by law enforcement in some countries because they cannot lower the prison population without its legalization. that has begun to happen even locally.. Madison only fines those who have less than one ounce on them now. It was costing them far too much money to keep pot smokers jailed.

-Live, but live informed

Well hollnpat I feel for ya. Just don't flip out and go on some crazy crime spree cuz you're going through that awful hooch withdrawl. When we were really desperate, we would smoke the seeds and stems. Time to pull those out. I know ya got some! LOL.

I smoke pot. my jeans stay around my waste. I'm not a criminal. I'm not a junkie. I'm not in a gang. I just like to smoke weed and its sad to say, it;s going to be dry after the police took 8LBS. off the streets. that really sucks.

go get the heroin and crack dealers. leave the peaceful pot smokers alone.

Breaking news: Zig Zag stock crashes.

I, unfortunately, have known many people who smoked pot and quite a few who sold it and they all worked at regular jobs. None that I've new lived off of the state. In fact, most of them had really good jobs and one owns his own autobody business.

There are millions of regular pot smokers in America and millions more infrequent smokers. Smoking pot clearly has far fewer dangerous and hazardous effects on society than legal drugs such as alcohol. Don't forget prescription drugs, which in a lot of cases, are far more addictive, harmful, and mind altering than pot will ever be! PEOPLE ARE SO STUPID!
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Prohibition has failed to control the use and domestic production of marijuana. The government has tried to use criminal penalties to prevent marijuana use for over 75 years and yet: marijuana is now used by over 25 million people annually, cannabis is currently the largest cash crop in the United States, and marijuana is grown all over the planet. Claims that marijuana prohibition is a successful policy are ludicrous and unsupported by the facts, and the idea that marijuana will soon be eliminated from America and the rest of the world is a ridiculous fantasy.
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The illegality of marijuana makes it more valuable than if it were legal, providing opportunities for teenagers to make easy money selling it to their friends. If the excessive profits for marijuana sales were ended through legalization there would be less incentive for teens to sell it to one another. Teenage use of alcohol and tobacco remain serious public health problems even though those drugs are legal for adults, however, the availability of alcohol and tobacco is not made even more widespread by providing kids with economic incentives to sell either one to their friends and peers.

All the people who think pot is such a big deal, probably think we should get the heck out of Iraq also. Why? Because the war is a HUGE waste of money, can't be won, and is taking our youth away from us?
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Guess what people! We have been fighting a losing war for more than twenty five years! A war that costs trillions of dollars a year, a war we won't win, a war that is filling up our prisons with non violent criminals! THE DRUG WAR!
Why isn't everyone whining about that?
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The sole reason drugs are illegal is money. If the government had no way to make money off drug crime, it would hardly be an issue.
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Why is hemp illegal? It is a miracle crop, capable of sustaining all our needs for fiber, plastic, wood, paper, animal feed, fuel, and much more.

How is the city of Janesville going to be a safer place to be just because they got rid of some pot heads when you have sex offenders running around? All pot heads do is play video games, eat like pigs and sleep. But thank god there getting rid of the baggy pants that makes Janesville look terrible. LOL

GOOD JOB JPD.,get rid of the dopers, the gang bangers,and those damn sagging pants,they look digusting, this city need to give jpd all the help they need to make this place, the nice place it use to be,this the city of parks, not the local dope hang out

Breaking News: Primetime Pizza deliveries to GM plant plummet...

Breaking News....The use of the word "DUDE" is down in Janesville due to the siezure of ganga. LOL love the breaking news bits...hehe.

Breaking News: A sharp decline in giggling in the Rock County has been attributed to large pot bust in Janesville.

Phil...I also agree JPD is an excellent enforcement. My point is....the higher ups need to destinquish what takes presidence. Pot or sexual offenders? The JPD is doing their job...it is the ones who tell them how to do their jobs that need to re-evaluate the importance of who goes to jail.

I can finally leave those chips and snacks out on my counter with the reassurance that some stoned burglar with a wicked case of the munchies won't break in to steal them. Again. WHEW!

Breaking news: Dorito sales down in Janesville.

LOL clandestiny! Yes. I know that I will sleep much more soundly tonight knowing that there will be one less baked crazy lunatic off the streets. WHEW!

Congradulations JPD! Don't listen to some of these people. You're upholding the law.

dont forget that if uncle sam didnt live in ignorance and hypocrisy, and regulated pot the SAME as his MAN MADE poison of alcohol, this would have never happened. legal adults selling a weed to legal adults is a victimless 'crime', and should not even be a crime. take the profit out of it uncle sam. or at least put the profit in yo hands and stop callin us criminals.
REGULATE....EDUCATE....MEDICATE.....

And they let the sex offender sicko walk around and worry about a bunch of stoners and probation violators....NICE!! I feel an offender is much more dangerous!

Don't fret, ganja lovers -- if this stuff was going for about $1,000 a pound, it's nothing more than glorified ditch weed.

Well, at least our streets will be a lot safer without all that pot floating around...right. And the crack and meth that destroys communities and lives? What a waste of taxpayers' time and money going for the green.

Excellent point! On the other hand, pictures might promote their buisness.

What no pictures ???