Not to beat a dead horse here benthinkin, but even though the contract may expire every four years, how can the active employees (the only ones allowed to vote)ratify changes in retiree benefits? I understand how they can vote to change benefits for "future" retirees, but not the ones that previously retired under specific contract guarantees.
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Retirees can't even vote on it. Isn't that kinda like taxation without representation?
Did the UAW have a tea party for the retirees?
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Again, it's not about the active employees contributing towards the loss of benefits, it's the fact that the actives allowed it to happen in the first place.
Why do you think that is?
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It's because with UAW collaboration, GM established case law that will allow them to alter the benefits of future retirees when they deem the situation warrants it again.
The actives were used, albeit unwittingly, but they were used nonetheless.
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Thus, what goes around, will come around.

Hold on to your shorts.....You won't believe the next move comimg our way :( :(

"Case law holds that this can only be done in the absence of specific contract language guaranteeing such benefits."
...and as always, the uaw/gm contract expires every 4 years with all terms needing to be re-negotiated.
I am in no way saying what happened to the retirees is right, but given the situation it may be better than the alternative.
...and as I stated prior, the uaw did not "sellout" the retirees, nor did the active workers who voted to subsidize retiree health care out of their own pockets.

I have a better picture of this incident. And Officer Mcgain isn't so nice to her in my pics.
Visit this website for my pics and my comments. I was there I know!
This officer was completely wrong.
I am usually one who stands up for cops. They have a tough job that really doesn't make the kind of money it should. But in this case, this man was wrong!!!!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/4/25/...

It seems to me that everyone wants to be treated "fairly", and unfortunately, that is a fantasy. The US is on the verge of some unprecedented changes, economic, social, and political, so what you thought you had, you no longer have.

It has nothing to do with wrong or right, it just simply is, and many, not just GM employees or retirees, are in for much bigger changes.

unionmemberfromohio is 100% correct, don't ever count on a company to take care of you, do it yourself. Manufacturing is dead in the USA.

This is just the begining Americans will no longer be able to make a living wage with unskilled manual labor. We can't compete with third world countries where people make a $1 an hour or less. Take the buyout if you can go back to school. That's what I'm going to do. Trying to fight the company, save jobs, bring back the past it's all a waste of time. We can't win this one not in the new global economy. Unskilled manual labor isn't worth what it used to be.

"Had G.M. successfully gone to court and eliminated completely the health care for retirees, then just were would they have been."
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Case law holds that this can only be done in the absence of specific contract language guaranteeing such benefits.

If the retiree has to pay when he didn't have to pay before...call it what you want...but it's not right.
Bottom line is, their benefits were changed and they had no vote in the matter. That is wrong.
If they had a say in the matter, that would be one thing. But they didn't.
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What will todays workers say when they are retirees and the workers at the time vote to change their "guaranteed" retirement benefits?
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What goes around...comes around.

Had G.M. successfully gone to court and eliminated completely the health care for retirees, then just were would they have been.
The reason that there was a joint lawsuit was to ensure that everything was legal and would be upheld by the courts.
Each active worker is spending over $2k per year for retiree health care, not their own, but solely for the use of the retirees. If it were truly a sell out, why would the active force be chipping in all of this out of their own pocket, and they voted it in on themselves.

Bottom line is...when the workers retired, they had an "agreement" that their health care premiums would be covered for their life and the life of their spouses..
Regardless of the amounts, that promise was broken. By the company and by the active union members who voted for it..
In fact, it stunk so bad that the UAW and GM, before the union even voted on the contract, went to court as partners in a civil action to head off any potential lawsuits by the retirees for loss of benefits.
In every day life that would be called a "guilty conscience." In union terms it's called a "sell out."

wisconsinheat, if you're referring to the insurance issue and the retiree insurance co-pays there is a little more to the story.
Back in '05 G.M. had reserved a position that they were not required to provide insurance coverage for the retirees. During negotiations, the UAW had developed a plan were the active workforce would contribute $1+ per hour to defer the retiree costs along with some co-pays for retirees that were making an amount above a certain threshold so the older retirees that had a lower pension did not have to contribute.
Basically, this was a compromise that allowed the retirees to continue health care at a minimal cost to them. The active workforce, the ones who can vote, voted it in. They voted for the active members to carry the majority of the cost, on a per person basis.

diamondback wrote..."The workers that have retired are depending on you to protect what they fought so hard to get back in the day."
It's too late for that. The union sold out the retirees two contracts ago.
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benthinkin wrote..."The union is the collective workers, so the workers apparently sold themselves out."
What actually happened is that the workers sold the retirees out.
The retirees have NO VOTE in the matter. They were SOLD OUT.
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What goes around, comes around.

...as far as "The Union" sold out the workers, just how do you think that the reps were put in place...the workers voted them in.
The union is the collective workers, so the workers apparently sold themselves out.
Any worker is allowed to put forth a resolution on the national agreement, it does not have to be a rep.

the uaw might have built this town, but the reps.,they have now are ruining its name.as far as bashing the the uaw, they brought it on themselves.if they keep this crap up they will wrap up that plant and move it to mexico,then whats everyone going to do? answer, alot of people will be out of job.i bet those union reps., pockets arent empty, and as far as laughing all the way to the bank, they are.

Call1-that's all they do is push a button? people have to get their "selfs" a job there! (If they were only foolish enough to believe people were making $28 an hour pushing a button. I imagine most people wouldn't believe cars were made that way.)

gamblerone-I find your remark about the OLDER workers interesting !!! Not too long ago/and still to this day younger workers have wanted the old timers to retire so they could get the good jobs(what ever that is).My point is that IT IS NOT THE OLD TIMERS GIVING UP THE BENNIES !!!!! I don't know the numbers ,but there are more 86ers and present hires than 30/years or more..so you tell me WHO is giving in to the local???Remember what your union brothers/sisters have done to get you your benefits, insurance better working conditions,etc.The workers that have retired are depending on you to protect what they fought so hard to get back in the day.

ginsberg68- Strikes happen when union members decide they want "More" of the pie. Don't get me wrong.. If i were a unskilled laborer & I could make that kind of money working on an assembly line pushing a button, I'd be there. But when do we say, "hey.. we're voting our selfs right out of a job. enough is enough." and maybe take what you have until the company selling their product in large numbers again.

You being up another myth i just love correcting when i hear it "UAW that built this town and the workers in it.." ,Janesville was here long before the UAW, & even though GM is a huge source of tax revenue for Janesville, its by far not the only source. We have lots of industry in this area. Some dependent on GM, Some not. And for those who are mis-understanding.. my problem is not with GM, or what GM pays its employees. MY problem is with Union's that blackmail companies into doing what they want. BTW. Unions were invented by the Mob, run by the mob, & thats never going to change.. No matter who's doing their over site (Justice Dept, IRS, DOT, etc)

The funny thing is (not the laughing kind of funny) GM workers get slammed for making so much, for going on strike to get more, for being greedy, on and on and on....OR they get slammed for not holding out, by giving in to the company, settling too easily, by following the union's "suggestions", and on and on and on. I haven't researched past posts, but I sure hope some of the same "bashers" haven't been on both sides of the slamming. That, though, might give a little insight as to their feelings about the worker no matter what they did. Seems like one of those "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situations.

I am not bashing union labor...
I am bashing the union reps that sold out the people who do all the real work while they sit on thier fat buts either at the plant or up in Madison playing politician!!!!!!!!!!

The worst part about the whole thing is the union is keeping us in the dark. Not telling us nothing. They won't unil they get all the older workers out. Then they will lie to the younger workers again, to get them to vote on a bad local contract. We have no voice anymore.

The worst part about the whole thing is the union is keeping us in the dark. Not telling us nothing. They won't unil they get all the older workers out. Then they will lie to the younger workers again, to get them to vote on a bad local contract. We have no voice anyomre.

although the UAW is no Teamsters....(don't say the Teamsters are crooked becuase the are monitored and audited constantly now by the Justice Dept. so don't even start)

don't ever bash union labor, it was the UAW that built this town and the workers in it....strikes are only done when abosolutely neccessary....should we just forget it and start working like we're non-union?

I saw this coming years ago. UAW members are going to strike them selfs right out of work. Give me a break. Where else in this country can "unskilled" (Some) high school drop out workers make over $80 (including their benefits). I think its time for the workers to get real before Mexico gets all of our jobs.

All I am saying is that instead of the wage being cut in half they should have bargained some of the perks. Instead of lifetime health insurance offer 5 or 7 years insurance at retirement. Instead of anything over 8 hours a day being overtime have it be anything over 40 hours in a week be overtime. Instead they sold the future out. I am a firm believer in you get what you pay for. The quality of gm products will go down with a lower wage! The union really bent over alot of people. Not just GM but all the companys that rely on GM to keep going. When Janesville becomes a ghost town I for one will blame the uaw not gm.

You may be correct, perhaps there were other options that were not explored.

Curlrock
I agree that it is no longer the 1970's but there was other ways for the union to negotiate and fight to keep a decent wage. One example could have been the lifetime health insurance which is unheard of anywhere else. (if a retiree gets married the spouse can get gm health insurance) The union sold out! Like most unions the people negotiating for the whole group don't care except for themselves!

stupidisasstupiddoes- The alternative of 14/hr job is no job. Obviously, the people who know, including union reps, realize that this is not the 1970's and the wages that GM used to pay could not continue. It dooesn't take an rocket scientist to see that GM consistantly have lost money over the past several years an something had to change. It's sad but it's reality.

Correct me if I am wrng but can GM hire in a new person at 14 bucks to fill the spots open from the buyout or do the have to use someone who is layed off? I had heard that they can do that. If that is the case then the union reps sure did not explain that very well to the younger folk.

You are right. The union did sell us down the river. What we had was a public relations strike. Too bad the younger workers who voted yes for this contract are now laid off. Our union is a JOKE.

I thought the local did vote on it as part of the national vote. Maybe I am wrong but I thought it did pass locally. The bottom line is your union reps sold you out! At least that is the general feeling that I get form my family and friends that work or have worked and retired from the plant. Everything fought for over the years gone with one vote and the the big wig union reps taking the buyout and laughing all the way to the bank.

stupid- I have said in the past that a family will have a hard time on $14.00/hr.... just so you know the LOCAL UNION didn't vote on this !!! It was done at the NATIONAL level.All GM plants will hire in at the $14.00/hr.If I'm not mistaken the other two (ford, chrysler)have /will do the same.

I understand why American Axle is doing it, they're trying not to lose their contract with GM. They need to be able to produce axles cheaper than GM can, otherwise GM will just do it themselves. At $14 per hour, GM can do it pretty inexpensively.

This is how the new contract is going to screw more than just the GM workers.

At least the workers at the axel company did not bend down to the "man" and decided to stike! The janesville uaw should have never settled for the contract they did! 14 bucks an hour for new workers! what a joke!