well I HAVEN'T felt the ill effects yet..

for the truly dim....
Lemming:

The act of following the crowd into an investment that will inevitably head for disaster.

source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/L...

Have you ever seen how the Mayan peoples use Peyote (Mescaline) in a responsible way to see inside themselves and to view the world unclouded by outside influence? In a similar, yet less effective way, Marijuana lets the user see right through people and their true motives. Now we can't really allow people to be influenced by their own unmolested view of the world can we? Just think of the position that would place our government in. I think you can see the government’s motivation in not legalizing this substance. We can't have the country's population running around and thinking for themselves can we Lemming?

Way to go CRAFTY!

"”Government Agencies - Using unconstitutional civil forfeiture laws the government has been able to use the presence of Pot to steal billions of dollars of private property from the People. Drug laws have been an excuse to circumvent our constitutional right and justify wire tap laws, the erosion of protection from illegal searches, key recovery encryption, and domestic spying…………Way to go CRAFTY!

CRAFTY presents the true crux of this situation in an intelligent, logical form. Most people are LEMMINGS from a campaign that is almost 80 years old now. It is very fortunate that the Gazette provides a means for posters to contact other posters. I challenge ANYONE here to debate me in a public forum on this topic. You bring your views and facts, I will bring mine. I hope that CRAFTY would be my ally in such a debate. Lemmings invited to participate-of course.
Just take a look at spelling and grammar usage in the Lemming responses compared to CRAFTY! Clearly CRAFTY is the more informed and most likely intelligent one here. I don't want to hear about any aid CRAFTY may have used to check his work. The fact of the matter is that he is either very intelligent, or at least intelligent enough to recognize the spell check feature embedded into the Gazette site. We need to bring this topic and many more topics of concern out in the open and have reasonable debate to correct where our government is going wrong. After all…take a look at how many responses this story garnered. Then take a close look at the majority opinion. The result speaks for itself. I was taught that majority ruled in this country-clearly it DOES NOT!
So MANY Lemmings, woefully too few cliffs for them to run off!

THE GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO CONFORM TO THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE; THE CITIZENRY SHOULD NOT CONFORM TO THE WILL OF A GOVERNMENT THAT IS CLEARLY OUT OF CONTROL!

You guys still dont get it. Its illegal, you can make all the stupid arguements to legalize it all you want, it still doesnt matter. Its illegal and the police did their job. Plain and simple.

it was either f....the police, or "fight the power" by public enemry

What did that one rap song say about the police?

That's right. The action is at this one:

http://www.gazettextra.com/news/2008/apr...

Government Agencies - Using unconstitutional civil forfeiture laws the government has been able to use the presence of Pot to steal billions of dollars of private property from the People. Drug laws have been an excuse to circumvent our constitutional right and justify wire tap laws, the erosion of protection from illegal searches, key recovery encryption, and domestic spying. If you take a politically unpopular position like this one I'm taking now, the government can plant drugs on you and put you away.

Pot Dealers - If Pot were legalized then people making money off of selling Pot illegally would be out of business. Pot prices would drop to $10 a bale. Crime relating to illegal Pot money would vanish.

Wood Industry - Hemp would become the primary source of fiber for paper products as well as a new source for building materials. We wouldn't have to cut down every big tree in the world.

Private Prisons - If Pot were legalized the private prison industry would be hurt. They would no longer jail Pot smokers. It could free up space for violent criminals.

Trial Lawyers - Normal people caught with a joint spend billions each year on lawyers to get them off of criminal charges after getting caught with a joint. Lawyers get rich off of the Marijuana laws. If Marijuana were legal this money could be spent sending your kids to college.

Mental Hospitals - There's a big industry treating people for problems they don't have. If you have insurance, you're crazy until the insurance coverage runs out. If you smoke Pot then you have mental problems. If Pot were legal some of these people would have to get real jobs. We should start treating people who are addicted to 12 step programs.

Political Cowards - Politicians like to pose with police as somebody who is "against drugs" promising to lock up all the pot smokers and throw away the key. These people need an artificial issue to be against so they don't have to face real issues like how to protect the public from crooked lawyers and crooked judges. Political cowards cross all party lines when it comes to pot and includes President Clinton.

Others - These groups could also be hurt by legalizing Pot. Car body shops would get less alcohol related wrecks to fix. Hospitals would get less alcohol related business as would alcohol treatment centers and funeral homes. It could hurt cemeteries and tombstone makers as well.

Who opposes legalizing Marijuana and why
There are many types of people who oppose legalizing Marijuana for a variety of reasons. Many of these groups have some very strange reasons and selfish interests. Many are just ignorant of the facts. Here's some of the opposition:

The Uninformed - People who believe the misinformation that Pot is harmful to society.

The Government - Pot has been illegal for so long that no politicians have the political courage to tell the truth about Pot. The ones that do tell the truth are defeated by their opponents that paint them as a druggie. Many of these anti-drug politicians are funded by the Alcohol lobby.

Religion - Anything fun is sin and of the Devil. Churches might lose members as people figure out that God can't be that stupid.

Moralizers - The morally superior who enjoy looking down their noses at the less fortunate and get a sadistic thrill in putting people in jail.

People who do no Drugs - These people who don't drink, don't smoke, in some cases don't even drink coffee. They just don't understand why anyone would want to smoke anything or do any drug. From their perspective the world would be better off if no one did anything.

The Alcohol Lobby - Legalizing Pot would seriously cut into the sales of Beer. Pot would become the recreational drug of choice because it is safer than Beer.

The Tobacco Lobby - Pot has the ability in some people to help them break the addiction of nicotine. Pot smoking could actually reduce the number of tobacco addicts.

Law Enforcement - There are a lot of people who make a living fighting Pot who would have to go get a real job if Pot were legalized. Police departments get a lot of funding to fight Marijuana and those funds could be returned to the taxpayer if Pot were made legal. Cops would have to chase robbers, rapists, and murderers.

the surprised officer may have been pigbrain, justsaynotomath! LOL

I've had similar situations but the officers were not as blatantly obtuse when they discovered I was not "wanted" and hadn't been drinking and, of course, I didn't have any pot in plain view. (I NEVER have ANY in my vehicle.) So the officers just waved me off in a friendly "get that light taken care of tomorrow" sort of way....

*sigh*

Obviously the war on drugs has been a huge failure. The solution is: You stop the demand (treatment and recovery) and you stop the supply.
Try to live life without psychoactive substances. I know it is hard, but it can be done.

Thekid- all of us should be thanking you for taking the time and effort to educate these ignorant folks! and i'm going to have one for ya in about 10 minutes here :) come arrest me, i'm in the privacy of my house!

Keep on saving the world pigbrain, just don't violate my rights when doing so. Excellent post ms_sassy_wi.

obviously, it depends on the officer. An officer, with a personal belief system that a person in possession of pot should be put away for life, will go to greater extents to make the "discovery" and an officer, with a personal belief system that a person in possession of pot is not harming anyone, but just has a taillight out, is not driving recklessly or speeding will give a warning to the driver that the taillight is out. Should be simple, but obviously LE either has an attitude that they are there to "shake the bad guys down" or they are there to make the community safer by using realistic and precautionary measures.

It's not so much about "law" as it is about personal agendas...sad, but true.

Not exactly. We know what one another is up to. Weapons, OWI's, warrants. These are what I classify as actively pursuing, however...
Patrol involves looking for anything that's illegal, so if pot is illegal and we see it, well, I guess you can say we're actively pursuing it. So leave it at home and fix your broken taillight...it seems to keep coming around to that.

"Just because you're paranoid, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you"

Wow, this is almost painfull. pigbrain, absolutely the police have the right to stop vehicles for equipment violations but don't tell people "Local LE is not the ones actively pursuing potheads" because that's one of the reasons you are making traffic stops for minor equipment violations. You are hoping to find pot or whatever in plain view. Then at the end of your shift you can tell all your brothers in blue how you made a big bust because you caught some poor kid with an ounce of pot and a pot pipe. WOOHOO!

You are right, if police have mere knowledge of a subject possessing something, it would be unconstitutional for us to stop them and search (4th Amendment). However, if during the course of a legal traffic stop a substance is observed, then it's good to go. That's the point.
You are correct, you can tell us to get bent if we ask to search your car for no reason. But the point I made was about pot being discovered in plain view during a legal stop.

I understand your opinion of what some would call a pretext stop, but I'm sorry to say, it's legal for us to stop a vehicle for an equipment violation.

pigbrain, NO ONE HAS TO TALK TO YOU whether you are dispatched or otherwise. You said in this blog that you don't infringe on people's rights. If you are forcing someone to talk to you then you are infringing on their rights. If you are infringing on peoples rights by making them talk to you then you possibly infringe on some of their other rights. That is the point I was making. Next, PC to investigate what? That was also my point. You are digging for other offenses when you make a traffic stop for minor equipment violations. Just tell the truth, Local LE IS actively pursuing potheads!

Officerfriendly1 asked:
"pigbrain, you won't infringe on anyone's rights? Do you remember this statement you made a few months ago? "Citizens Are required to talk to the police when dispatched, it's called a terry stop, or investigative detention, and is not an option. What do you think leads up to an arrest?"
Yes I do. That pertains to a dispatched call, not our hypothetical traffic stop, so your point is.....?
And no, we generally won't write a ticket for a taillight, but it gets our attention and establishes PC to investigate, which is our right and duty, so again, if you don't want our attention, don't stand out with a vehicle infraction, which was the point of my post in the first place. Are we back on topic now?

thanx for the love sweet_79. i really am done with this story after this post. lol. this has been a blast reading both sides. plus it looks like weve officially killed the 'smoking hurts everyone' chat. so thats kewl:) i was tired of seeing that one. yes, its just after 4:20 on a saturday afternoon. is that a responsible time to smoke?? who cares. i am who i am with or without my yoga, my work, my alcohol, my family, or my marijuana, ALL of whom helped me get to where i am today. i love them all. someone said before about 'learning to drink'. that can be done. so can 'learning to smoke'. dub, westside, crafty, fldmn, sweet_79, and whoever else my short term memory may have forgotten;), HAVE LEARNED to smoke responsibly. do you think were the only ones?? no. were not the criminals. as i sit here after a day of work and my second peaceful buzz of the day i just think to myself 'i cant believe feeling like this is against the law,if they only knew.....'

I just had to comment on all these. I've read almost this entire page since lunch and i'm just amazed at how stupid and stuck up some people are. The kid you are my hero, your in love with pot and I just fell in love with you. I agree with every single thing you have said! I am a young working married mother I own my own home and I pay my own bills and almost every night I light one up. I think i've earned it and I think I have every right to do so in my OWN home. I am not hurting anyone, i'm not out there driving or killing people for my drugs. I think some of you have watched a few too many movies or played a couple too many video games. Smoking a little pot every once in a while does no one harm, smoking pot everyday does no one harm. So those "losers" dont dress the way YOU think they should or have jobs like YOU think they should, that means you are above them? NO! This is supposed to be a free country and your obviously a materialistic a$$hole if you think smoking pot is wrong because Willie Nelson has braids and wears a headband, thats all you have. If you've never even tried pot because your so againest it then how can you even post your opinion? I have drank I do drink on occasion and its just not my thing, I am in much better control of myself when smoking then when drinking and I think most pot smokers would agree with me. I am a responsible pot smoker and I know MANY people who are the same. Pot WILL be legal one day, you have to remember that one day it will be my generation in congress, we will be president, we will have the control! Are you scared?

A lot of talk about hypocricy...
Funny how a law breaker wants a law changed so that they can abide by the law...

ive gone 15 days with pot in my house and not smoked(ironically to clean up for an alcohol class:), and i didnt 'suffer'....because there are no physical withdrawals from giving up pot. ive given up alcohol. then i gave up cigarettes. then i gave up caffeine. any time i cant smoke pot my body does not feel close to what it did when i stopped caffeine alone.. again, and possibly the last time....its all about hypocrisy to me. there is no reason you can come up with that will convince me it should be ok to allow people to intoxicate themselves with alcohol or tobacco when they reach a 'responsible' age, and not pot. THERE ARE TWO SIDES TO EVERYTHING. we can debate the pro's/cons of any and all drugs all day long. but no matter how you look at it, the current laws are hypocrisy at its greatest.

seriously hannah. thanks for your concern, but im not 6. its not the same for me to talk to a stranger as my kid. i can handle myself. take it on my carry on?? that seriously makes me laugh. do you really think they are going to let me carry an illegal drug on an airplane?? if they did, i would not have a problem with these laws and would not have had to converse with the scary stranger. carry on...lol...still laughing........

EXACTLY HANNAH!! do you get it yet?? why should i be in the city of sin where i can intoxicate myself til im blue in the face with alcohol, or sex, or gambling or who knows what else, but i have to buy a small bag of weed from a stranger in a bathroom so i can relax how i want?? most pot smokers are intelligent, WE DONT WANT TO HAVE TO BUY FROM SOME DUDE IN A JOHN. do you see why im annoyed with these laws and preach about the hypocrisy??

pigbrain, you won't infringe on anyone's rights? Do you remember this statement you made a few months ago? "Citizens Are required to talk to the police when dispatched, it's called a terry stop, or investigative detention, and is not an option. What do you think leads up to an arrest?"

perfect point officerfriendly. thats the MAIN reason uncle sam likes it illegal...CONTROL...

pigbrain, you said, "Local LE is not the ones actively pursuing potheads. The overwhelming majority of drug arrests are the result of stoners attracting our attention by their own actions. For example a taillight out, no plate/expired reg, cracked windshield, loud exhaust, poor driving, tint too dark, etc". Common be honest. Do you write citations for a tail light out? The only reason you are stopping for minor traffic violations is to dig for a bigger offense. Local LE IS actively pursuing potheads!

jvilleparkergrad: yer on our team now perfect:)
whocares: its technically not de-criminalized, that would mean residents could grow, but when they state they will no longer prosecute simple marijuana possession, that means they wont make responsible smokers criminals, which in a way IS de-criminalizing it. its not ok to break law because i follow all the others. i dont think a judge would by the story anyways:). i understand the risk i take by being in possession of a plant. i do think its ok to smoke marijuana responsibly and it is OK to disagree with a law and work to change it. thats america. thats what im doing.

Nice TRY????
Is your paranoia showing?
I told only one part of my experiences here, to see the reactions.
Now I fill in the rest of the story, you give me a hard time for that as well? I am actually on your side as far as having marijuana legal, and live where it is legal for medicinal use, so the laws are being changed to accommodate everyone who uses it for personal use.
Wow, your mellowness is showing. Come here and smoke it where it is legal, maybe you will lose some of those paranoid, the-government-is-out-to-get-me feelings!

thekid: So if you obey most laws it's ok to break some?

Nice try Parkergrad.
Pigbrain, I'm sure you have never used the old "Obstruction of Justice" tactic? (you tell a person that, if they lie to you, that's obstruction of justice, when in fact they can just not say anything)

Crafty,
your last paragraph in 11:14 post, that is.

Global Warming is a sham. Anyone who believes in Global Warming is a mindless sheep. They are finding TREES in the ice that is melting off of the polar ice caps. Look it up. The oceans are NOT GETTING ANY WARMER. Al Gore is a liar and moron.

pigbrain i agree that its the feds that are most ignorant about it. thats why citys and countys all over the country are passing ordinances making possession of pot not criminal. because they, like you im sure, KNOW there are more productive ways to use our police force. tell these people pigbrain, yer the copper, tell em you have no need to arrest responsible pot smokers. yer the law, at least tell them there is such a thing as a responsible pot smoker. for every ignorant pot smoker that gets busted because of a broken taillight theres prolly a dozen driving 2 mph over the speed limit in possession of, if not currently buzzed on pot. on a side note....a couple weekends ago i spent last weekend in the vegas, the self professed 'city of sin' i dont drink, but if i wanted to i could have drank 24/7 with only the proper i.d. i also could have chose to gamble my savings away in a couple hands;) i coudnt walk 10 feet without some illegal allien flicking a card for a prostitute. i saw an ad for a 'full auto' gun store. i did score some weed so i could celebrate 4/20:) but i had to buy it off some thug in the bathroom of a casino at 2:00 in the morning. ignorance and hypocrisy....im not the criminal....

Crafty,
Your last paragraph is dead on. One thing I must add, however, is I will not infringe on anyone's rights based upon what my previous customer did. I am very much in tune with my community and deal with many great people as well as the bad guys. I would also never use backwoods, oldschool language as "We can do this the easy way, or the hard way" and the like. That is a stereotype us younger officers must try to overcome due to the way it was done years ago.
Also, the tactics mentioned in you post might be used on TV shows, but to do that where I work is a sure way to get your case thrown out by the DA and your credibility damaged.

thekid3477 and dub190: It has been fun watching you tear me up, even after I said you don't know me :)
I live in Ontario, Canada, where it has been ruled that possession of pot for medicinal and personal use is being decriminalized. Here is one article:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/07/1...
Here, people smoke it all the time, and are not usually bothered by police about it. I expect soon it will be legal for anyone to possess small amounts and it will be legal.
In fact, today there is the annual March for Marijuana in downtown Toronto at noon, and in the past no one has been arrested while smoking pot during this rally.
Too bad the US will continue to suppress that right, as well as other rights that don't interfere with people's liberties, such as gay marriage (has legal force equal to heterosexual marriage). We even have universal health care, which means EVERYONE gets health care free, rich or poor. The taxes aren't higher and companies you work for can give better benefits, like prescription drug coverage and dental coverage, to name a few. Another freedom here is that men and women can go topless in public, because it would be discriminatory to not allow women to do so.
Imagine, a government that REALLY stands for individual's freedoms!
I really have nothing against people who smoke pot when it's legal. I don't smoke it because I have experienced nothing but adverse effects when I had tried it as a young person (these imaginary symptoms that you claim them to be). To me they are real nonetheless, and I don't enjoy it.
The stories I told earlier were from when I lived in the US two years ago. I guess when it is legal, people don't act like such idiots.
I wanted to see how rabid you all get here when I talked about my experiences in the States.
Thanks for the amusement. My Canadian buddies get a laugh out of the what they read here on these blogs!
It is illegal to carry handguns in the city but it's legal to carry bongs :)
Peace out!

People are searched because they don't know when they have a right to refuse, then are searched under the exercise of specific police powers. It isn't entirely unheard of for police officers to allow people to conclude that powers of search are more extensive than they really are.

Crafty: Whew, you obviously spend an awful lot of time on pro-pot websites gleaning blizards of propaganda. Surprised nobody has discovered yet that legal pot can eliminate global warming.
...
I need to correct just one of your bits of misinformation: Dane county did not decriminalize pot. From stopthedrugwar.com:
"The Dane County, Wisconsin, District Attorney's Office will no longer prosecute simple marijuana possession cases involving less than 25 grams (nearly an ounce) of pot. Prosecutors said it wasn't an effort to decriminalize marijuana, merely recognition of limited resources and setting priorities for the office."
That shouldn't surprise anybody who knows Madison - they're so enlightened.
...
If nobody broke pot laws it would cost nothing to enforce them.

Pigbrain - First off thanks for the intended insult. That immediately puts you in a certain established category.
Yeah I'm sure that from your point of view, that is how it looks. From the point of view of thousands of people who are pulled over for one of these reasons, and DECEIVED to the point of giving up their Constitutional rights, you are full of crap.
Don't get me wrong I respect and appreciate my local law enforcement. I do not appreciate Police Officers intentionally trying to confuse people who do not know their rights. Especially teenagers.
Examples:
1. “We can do this the easy way or we can do this the hard way.” – Often, without being arrested, a version of this statement will be made. The cop is suggesting that if you just admit to him you did something wrong, he will go easy on you. Don’t fall for it. If you take the bait and admit to a crime you will be arrested and your confession will be used against you.

There is no easy way out, and the cops aren’t there to help. The real easy way is to get a lawyer and remain silent.

2. “We would like you to come with us to answer a few questions.” – Welcome to cop fishing! If they had enough to make an arrest, they would have. Instead, they want to put you on the record and trip you up later if you miss any details. There is no benefit to cooperation and don’t think you can outwit them. No, you don’t want to go anywhere. And, no, you aren’t answering any questions.

3. “What do you have to hide?” – This loaded question seeks to impugn anyone who knows their rights and refused to cooperate with police. Remember, you don’t have to justify your decision not to speak with a cop.

4. “You might as well tell us, we already know everything.” – Similar to #3, if the police had evidence of you committing a crime they would be stopping by to arrest you, not to chat.

5. “Why do you need an attorney unless you did something wrong?” – As if you need to justify exercising your rights to a public servant. Don’t even attempt to answer this; it’s another cop trick question.
*******
The main thing to remember when interacting with cops is that, 24-7-365, all they get from the public is (a) lies, and (b) hostility. If, in any given situation, you give every appearance of being calm, rational and reasonably courteous, 999 out of 1,000 cops will do the same.
Being a cop is in some ways a great job–but it’s also, in other ways, one of the crappiest jobs on the planet. Always try to remember that the “customer” just before you, so to speak, may have been the child rapist or the guy who bludgeoned an elderly woman for her pension check.

Since education was just mentioned, I think it's wrong for society to lie to teenagers about smoking marijuana. I find it frustrating when I hear ads from places like "Partnership for a Drug Free America" running commercials against Pot that just aren't true. I don't like it when people warn teens about using "Marijuana and Cocaine" when Pot is almost harmless and Cocaine is a dangerous drug. When people lie to teens about Marijuana then teens assume they are lying about other drugs too and I think they are more likely to do drugs they shouldn't do. So I think it's time to come clean and tell the truth. If teens are going to do drugs, they should have truthful and accurate information. So I have decided to tell it like it is. Best decisions are made when the real facts are presented.

For those parents who are reading this in horror, I am not trying to get kids to smoke Pot. What I am doing here is trying to tell them the truth, and tell you the truth about a widely misunderstood substance. This is an opportunity for everyone to have a better understanding of reality. If you can't handle reality, stop reading this post. There are plenty of other people here that will tell you what you want to hear. I am not one of them.
How bad is Marijuana Really?
As compared to most drugs, Pot is the least dangerous. Pot is not an addictive drug. For those who claim it is, anything is theoretically addictive, and there are some people who can become addicted to spring water. So to put it in perspective, Pot is less addictive than coffee. I have become addicted to coffee myself and have broken the habit. You get mild headaches for a few days. I have never had any symptoms for withdrawal from Pot.

Pot will cause some short term memory loss. It's harder to remember a 10 digit phone number. Beer causes the same memory loss as Pot. The effect is temporary and wears off completely. Pot has no long term affects on the brain. I have been smoking Pot for the last 25 years and I still test as a genius on IQ tests. My mental abilities have increased over the years.

Pot will give you the Munchies. You may eat more than you would normally. If you are on a diet, you should factor this in when deciding to smoke Pot. It could cause you to gain weight.

Pot is a sexual stimulant. It removes a persons inhibitions. You are more likely to agree to have sex when you are stoned. You are also more likely to not use birth control while stoned.
Never drive while doing any drugs or alcohol, or many prescription drugs for that matter. Alcohol causes you to wreck your car. Pot has a much lesser effect on driving than alcohol, but it has some effect. You are more likely to pull out in front of someone or run a red light than lose control of the vehicle. Pot might also cause you to get lost. Don't drive while stoned.

Crafty, Kid, whoever:
I hope the bong resin clears out of your head long enough to absorb what I'm about to tell you:
Local LE is not the ones actively pursuing potheads. The overwhelming majority of drug arrests are the result of stoners attracting our attention by their own actions. For example a taillight out, no plate/expired reg, cracked windshield, loud exhaust, poor driving, tint too dark, etc. Once contact with the driver is established, it's in plain view or obvious by their actions that something is hinky, giving us PC to search.
Only Federal law has a heavy hammer for pot offenders, and they are looking to prosecute big time dealers, not users who get stopped with a bag or two, which generally results in a fine only, barring any unrelated warrants.
If you want to place blame on someone for all the pot related arrests, blame yourselves. It's not cops fault that potheads are easy to spot and catch. Try driving through town without attracting our attention and keep your stuff at home you won't be hassled by the man no more.

Fldpan, you live in Minnesota?

we are wasting so much money putting pot smokers in jail. why i or anyone else for that matter can drink and smoke cigarettes in a bar or home and not smoke pot is beyond me. what i do in my house or you in yours is nobodies business. that is the problem with our county and this town is that everyone sticks there nose where it doesnt belong. mind your own damn business and stay out of mine! education is the key. ive smoked pot since 1976 and guess what i continue to be employed and live a damn good life. never robbed or killed anyone just because ive smoked a little weed. its 2008 people time to put this issue to bed. it does way more good than harm. no if you will excuse me it must be 420 somewhere. thanks for listening. peace out!

Whythink, has pot ever hurt you or anyone you know? Your opinion is appreciated, but I disagree with you strongly. Look what fldpan said. You don't believe him?
You said "Visit a prison and ask the inmates about pot. They will admit it is adictive and harmful. Pot does kill." That is just ridiculous. Give me one case where pot killed anyone. I bet 9 out of 10 prisoners will say the exact opposite.
AN Oklahoma man is serving 75 years in prison for growing 5 marijuana plants. Another man in a wheelchair who was using marijuana to control his muscle spasms was sentenced to 10 years in jail. Many nonviolent drug offenders serve longer prison sentences than some murderers, rapists, and thieves, and it costs taxpayers $30,000 dollars a year to keep it illegal. Prohibition also creates a black market. Just as alcohol prohibition created crime and violence during the 1920's, marijuana prohibition does the same. It is said by the DEA that marijuana impairs learning ability, but the study that 'proves' this actually states "Heavy marijuana use may impair learning ability." - Note the words "heavy" and "may"

Crafty

You are SO misinformed. Pot is not something that will benefit this society. This society is already to dependent on drugs (legal and illegal). Alcohol, Tobacco, abuse of prescription drugs have destroyed many families and made many less productive.

Visit a prison and ask the inmates about pot. They will admit it is adictive and harmful. Pot does kill.

I am not some old fart who doesn't drink or smoke but I don't believe this society would benefit from another mind altering drug. I don't like seeing prisons filled with nonviolent pot offenders but just because people ignore the law doesn't mean you give up.
Think if parents acted that way. My 3 year old doesn't like the potty so I will just give up and buy more diapers. OR my 14 year old doesn't really like homework/school so I will just give up and let them stay home.
I don't think pot is a horrible drug, alcohol and tobacco are worse but that is not a reason to legalize another harmful drug. 2 wrongs doesn't make a 3rd wrong a good idea.

PEOPLE please take the time to read the posts below. See if you can find yourself, or your reasoning, in there somewhere.

Government Agencies - Using unconstitutional civil forfeiture laws the government has been able to use the presence of Pot to steal billions of dollars of private property from the People. Drug laws have been an excuse to circumvent our constitutional right and justify wire tap laws, the erosion of protection from illegal searches, key recovery encryption, and domestic spying. If you take a politically unpopular position like this one I'm taking now, the government can plant drugs on you and put you away.

Pot Dealers - If Pot were legalized then people making money off of selling Pot illegally would be out of business. Pot prices would drop to $10 a bale. Crime relating to illegal Pot money would vanish.

Wood Industry - Hemp would become the primary source of fiber for paper products as well as a new source for building materials. We wouldn't have to cut down every big tree in the world.

Private Prisons - If Pot were legalized the private prison industry would be hurt. They would no longer jail Pot smokers. It could free up space for violent criminals.

Trial Lawyers - Normal people caught with a joint spend billions each year on lawyers to get them off of criminal charges after getting caught with a joint. Lawyers get rich off of the Marijuana laws. If Marijuana were legal this money could be spent sending your kids to college.

Mental Hospitals - There's a big industry treating people for problems they don't have. If you have insurance, you're crazy until the insurance coverage runs out. If you smoke Pot then you have mental problems. If Pot were legal some of these people would have to get real jobs. We should start treating people who are addicted to 12 step programs.

Political Cowards - Politicians like to pose with police as somebody who is "against drugs" promising to lock up all the pot smokers and throw away the key. These people need an artificial issue to be against so they don't have to face real issues like how to protect the public from crooked lawyers and crooked judges. Political cowards cross all party lines when it comes to pot and includes President Clinton.

Others - These groups could also be hurt by legalizing Pot. Car body shops would get less alcohol related wrecks to fix. Hospitals would get less alcohol related business as would alcohol treatment centers and funeral homes. It could hurt cemeteries and tombstone makers as well.

Who opposes legalizing Marijuana and why
There are many types of people who oppose legalizing Marijuana for a variety of reasons. Many of these groups have some very strange reasons and selfish interests. Many are just ignorant of the facts. Here's some of the opposition:

The Uninformed - People who believe the misinformation that Pot is harmful to society.

The Government - Pot has been illegal for so long that no politicians have the political courage to tell the truth about Pot. The ones that do tell the truth are defeated by their opponents that paint them as a druggie. Many of these anti-drug politicians are funded by the Alcohol lobby.

Religion - Anything fun is sin and of the Devil. Churches might lose members as people figure out that God can't be that stupid.

Moralizers - The morally superior who enjoy looking down their noses at the less fortunate and get a sadistic thrill in putting people in jail.

People who do no Drugs - These people who don't drink, don't smoke, in some cases don't even drink coffee. They just don't understand why anyone would want to smoke anything or do any drug. From their perspective the world would be better off if no one did anything.

The Alcohol Lobby - Legalizing Pot would seriously cut into the sales of Beer. Pot would become the recreational drug of choice because it is safer than Beer.

The Tobacco Lobby - Pot has the ability in some people to help them break the addiction of nicotine. Pot smoking could actually reduce the number of tobacco addicts.

Law Enforcement - There are a lot of people who make a living fighting Pot who would have to go get a real job if Pot were legalized. Police departments get a lot of funding to fight Marijuana and those funds could be returned to the taxpayer if Pot were made legal. Cops would have to chase robbers, rapists, and murderers.

Legalizing Marijuana would be a benefit to society. We as a nation would be improved by it. There are several reasons I make this claim. Although Pot has it's problems, it's benefits for outweigh it's consequences.

If Pot were legal, many people would switch from alcohol to Pot. I think that a lot of Alcohol abuse come from the fact that it is the only legal drug and therefore is overused. Alcohol is highly addictive, physically and psychologically destructive, and is a severe drag on society. I think that if Pot were legal that many people would switch to Pot and be much better off. I think one side effect of legalizing Pot would be a major reduction in the abuse of Alcohol and that the number of traffic deaths would drop dramatically.

The only reason Pot isn't legal is because there are a lot of people making money because it's not legal.

Another reason is to save the huge cost in tax dollars wasted in prohibiting Pot and enforcing drug laws that have no benefit to society. If Pot were legal you immediately eliminate the illegal Pot market and get rid of crime associated with Pot money. You could also release from jail all those convicted from Pot related offenses and cut the costs of having to build new prisons to incarcerate normal people. Because of mandatory drug sentencing laws, many states have to release violent offenders to make room for Pot smokers. That's stupid!
Pot has many other uses. Before the lumber industry lobbied Congress to make Pot illegal, Marijuana (known as Hemp) was the primary source of fiber for the production of paper. The United States Constitution is printed on Pot. With today's technologies this fiber can be processed into construction materials that would replace wood products saving our forests and lowering the costs of construction while producing byproducts useful in making fuels to run cars and generate electricity. Hemp is a very hearty plant and would be a good cash crop for our nation's farmers.

as for the medical marijuana thing. isnt it funny that heroin and cocaine are available medically, but not marijuana?? more hypocrisy...

all good points whocares. you make more sense than anyone else whos posted ant-pot. ive never said i dont see the other side of the coin. the prob is no anti-potters see our side of the coin. my WHOLE point goes back to this fact: if i as a rational thinking adult have the option to intoxicate myself with alcohol then i should have the option to intoxicate myself with pot ITS NO WORSE ON THE INDIVIDUAL USER THAN LEGAL ALCOHOL. as i pointed out earlier, we smokers dont really want full legalization like alcohol. i can argue for legalization all day. de-criminalize it like dane county has. make it so i as a responsible adult can possess up to an ounce for myself without risking arrest. give me a traffic ticket and confiscate it. just like alcohol selling to minors would be big timez illegal. no public smoking. no schools. NO ANYWHERE BUT MY HOUSE. why is it a crime if i chose to sit in my house and get high, but not if i drive to a bar and get drunk??

thekid: Let me try this again: the pro-pot cult is hanging it's entire argument for legalizing pot on whether or not it has medicinal value. Medical heroin is available but people are not allowed to manufacture their own. Dynamite has beneficial uses but people are not allowed to possess it without proper authority. To which your sterotypical reply is: the government just makes these things illegal so they can get bribes from the companies who make the legal stuff. What made you so suggestible to such a paranoid theory?
The government could get money by taxing pot and controlling its manufacture and sale in the same way it controls the sale and manufacture of alcohol. So there's no need to get it from bribes. Weed, like heroin and dynamite, is controlled because casual use by anybody is considered a threat to both the users and others in society whom the government has an obligation to protect.
...
Like almost every issue in life there is disagreement over this issue too. But it takes little imagination to understand why people are not allowed to obey just the laws they approve of and break the laws they don't approve of. There would be no law.
...
I repeat the bottom line: while you say there is no harm in making weed legal, the rest of us say there is even less harm in making it illegal. There is really nothing else to discuss.

Thekid: So you use pot to be a better person. And when your weed is gone, what kind of a person are you then? You're obviously not an idiot (unlike me), but both you and the rest of the world would be better off if you devoted your enthusiasm, persistence, and intelligence towards more worthy goals. Oh, sorry - more stereotyping. How dumb am I. Oh, well - who cares?

Sativex pot in a pill! Did you see it's a Bayer website? I guess it's okay if the drug companies can make a profit on it.

whocares: as for that link you posted. what was the point?? its a link to sativex and like all prescription drugs it lists every possible side effect. i mentioned this earlier, but got no response to that logic either, but dont you think that PROVES there are benefits to medical marijuana?? if there is such a drug as sativex which is based off of cannabis, i think its safe to say the cannabis itself is a medicine....

whocares: i truly think thats awesome the bible makes you a better person. i understand why people read the bible and go to church. i may not agree with it, but i understand. ive never read the bible, so i can safely say it has nothing to do with me being a better person. believe what you want, and stereotype me how you want, but i didnt use the bible to help me become a better person....i used marijuana....

The remark that smoking pot is a "victimless" crime is way off base.
I've seen the victims when the parents are hauled off to jail, or child protective takes the kids and on and on.
You can argue that this happens because the pot is illegal, but the fact remains that it is the possesion and usage of the pot that causes the government actions, no pot, no crime, no victim.
There are many remarks comparing pot to alcohol... That is great, just go out and get it legalized.
Many people talk about the victims of alcohol abuse due to the health aspects and accidents from DWI etc. That same arguement is good for the vitcims of pot smokers also.

Can too much pot be unhealthy? Of course! But I remember someone dying last year from drinking to much water. I've read about peoples skin turning orange from eating to many carrots. If you are worried about smoking effects then it also can be eaten. Mostly I want to be left alone. I have not found the use of cannabis to cause that many problems. Disagree if you want but I grew up in the house of a drunk. All alcohol has done for me is bring misery.

Hannah said: "your not reading my links either. side effects here you go.
SHORT-TERM EFFECTS:

Dry mouth and throat

Increased heart rate

Bloodshot eyes

Impaired learning, memory, judgment and complex motor skills

Difficulty speaking, listening, thinking, and problem solving

Anxiety or panic attacks

Paranoia in some users

Distorted perception: (sight, sound, time, touch)

LONG-TERM EFFECTS:

Psychological dependence

Asthma

Cancer of the lungs - as with anything smoked

Lowered sperm production & decreased sperm mobility

Immune system damage

There is some evidence of long-term memory damage from “prolonged use”.

sounds so yummy i'll go get high"

hmm i suffer from some of those after i've had a good night out on the town! :)

From the medical community, a list of contraindications, warnings and precautions, and adverse events for medical THC/CBD, see:
.
http://www.bayerhealth.com/display.cfm?O...
.
The discussion at that webpage is far too long to copy into a post here.
...
Pro-potters suggest that pot should be legal because using it doesn't cause anybody any harm. How much harm does making it illegal cause if you obey the law? And who's putting a gun to your head to break the law? I can tell you who's trying to persuade kids to break pot laws. And that's why people are fighting you on this issue - your personal welfare is less important to us than the welfare of our kids and grandkids.
...
thekid: The beauty of the Bible is that nobody can prove that it's just fiction and nobody needs to prove that it's not - it's all about Faith in a Being more universally wise and good than any human being. The Bible and Faith are all about learning to put other people ahead of ourselves - the very essence of virtue. The Bible, true or false, helps us to become better people.

thanx for answering my question hannah.;)
ive heard cannabis is referenced in the bible. i was not the one to state that. and even if it is in the bible its irrelevant to me. i know nothing of the bible so i will gladly plead ignorance. as far as im concerned its the best selling novel of all time.....

i understand uncle sam makes the rules. can you at least acknowledge some of uncle sams rules are hypocritical??

I'm reading everyone's links. So far most of them, if you read more than the first paragraph, are just backing up my opinion. I am also answering all questions. This is starting to bore me. It's always the same run around with you people.

parkergrad, i feel yer sigh man. intelligent conversations are two way streets, and well i feel like im on a one way now:) did you parker grad read my post to hannah?? i acknowledged the potential side effects. always have. do i believe in them. no. not all. but thats besides the point parker grad. i asked you how many people die every year from your legal drugs vs how many have died from pot ever and all you came up with was pot is as bad as legal cigs. im lazy?? ok you can think whatever you want. ive posted way more links on here and have read almost all ive been asked to and made relavant points to all of them, and even found a negative pot site. so yeah i guess i am lazy, and yer rite i did not read that link you posted until now. heres the last line on that website 'lastly a reminder, this article is not to scare people out of smoking it. Marijuana effects everyone differently'. once again jvvillegrad. everyone of those side effects you find on that link ARE TRUE. why is it ok to poison myself with alcohol but not pot??

thekid3477-
*sigh* Thanks once again for just being lazy and not looking up the side effects on a site I gave you from your own PRO-pot buddies. Didn't even comment on those. If you don't want to have a "lazy-stoner" reputation, at least look at the info you want everyone else to search for. No wonder other people here just ignore answering your questions.

and hannah, props to you for actually putting a list up there. the fact is, and you wont believe me, but i and smokers know half the short term ones are left over from reefer madness. as for the long term, ill see when i get there;) lets assume theyre all true. who is uncle sam to tell me i can do that to my body with alcohol or tobacco, but not pot??

whythink--i see where you came up with your name:)

amom--i agree, its to bad those pregnant women would have enough will power to drive past the liquor store, but not the pot depot:)

jvilleparkergrad--you did research on direct marijuana deaths and you come up with 'some sites do state that smoking pot is just as bad on the lungs as smoking cigarettes' really, thats the best you can find for your anti-pot beliefs?? wow. im not sure if you know this or not but those cigs they referenced are legal to anyone over 18 and are FREAKIN MARKETED to those under 18. still not able to answer my question huh?? its ok, i know the answer;).

crafty--good point on the victimless 'crime'. but as you can see the uninformed anti-smokers missed that.....

I have researched deaths caused DIRECTLY from using pot. I usually get linked to a pro-marijuana site, which says no deaths have been attributed directly with smoking pot. However, some sites do state that smoking pot is just as bad on the lungs as smoking cigarettes (probably due to inhaling it deeply and holding it in the lungs). The studies I've seen also say that there are tars present in inhaled marijuana, much like cigarettes. Maybe someone will study the long term effects of smoking pot, but I see none cited now.
However, from this PRO-pot site:
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/Marijuan...
There are many side effects listed, which are too numerous to post.
This is said at the end of all the side effects:
"The worst thing that can happen is that if you smoke by yourself for the first time. You may not notice the marijuana side effects and may hurt yourself or others. Having a good friend near by is a good idea because they can keep you out of harms way and provide assistance if you need it."
So I have answered your questions. As far as pregnancy goes, it is probably not a good idea to ingest marijuana. Why force a fetus/baby to have this mind-altering substance in its body without its consent?

Thanks for the opinion whythink.

Hannah - A child molester has a VICTIM. (If you ask me they should be castrated) A marijuana smoker has NO VICTIM, and is not hurting anyone. Who says you have to smoke it? You can eat it, or vaporize it. It is a natural substance.
You SPEED!? Oh My God! You are breaking the law! Therefore you have not only lost the respect of me, but everyone who shares my opinion. I will not answer ANY of your questions so don't ask any. Even if it will help others find the real truth! You are the perfect example otf the "losers" we need to "get off the streets"!
You aren't answering anyone's questions....Tisk Tisk...This just confirms my belief that you are just as"lazy" and "unambitious" as a "stoner"...

How do the pot heads change this issue from a moron who likely lied about the initial reason for him possessing 8 lbs of an illegal drug to a "legalize pot" debate?

JUST SAY NO!

Pot is a harmful, addictive and illegal drug...end of story.

As a health professional, please don't think that legal marijuana is a good thing, it gets into the hands more easily of young woman who are pregnant, then legal or not, someone who is innocent is affected.

As a mom, get these losers off of our streets so that our children cannot easily find the "stuff" and become hooked themselves.

good question dub on the REAL side effects. ive asked jvilleparker grad several times to tell me how many people overdose from his legal drugs every year vs how many have died from pot...EVER. they dont answer questions. they may acknowledge the question, but theyll 'spin' it. i think they might be politicians cuz they dont answer direct questions and they only see their side. as for worms with machine guns. funny stuff man. the birds prolly wouldnt want to eat them, but i do believe as responsible nest building animals in these beautiful united states of america they should have the option to ingest the worms and risk personal negative outcomes. i think it was big bird who said originally that 'Penalties against possession of a worm with a gun should not be more damaging to an individual than the ingestion of the worm itself'

Hannah, how would I know how the people would feel in your made up situation? What if earthworms had machine guns? Birds wouldn't eat 'em!I guess if they as close-minded as you there would be outrage. How dare they get high! If they did say they smoked all the time, that would make me happy, knowing how successful they are. Their campaign? Well, they'd have more votes from people like me, and Kid and Dub, and less votes from people like you. Has marijuana ever hurt anyone you know? Besides the fact that it made you feel weird, what else is so bad about pot? Do you agree that people get hurt and act like fools more on alcohol than pot? Why shouldn't tax paying responsible Americans be able to toke a bowl after work to unwind? Isn't it a free country? Presidential Candidate Ron Paul believes in a broad scale legalization of ALL illegal drugs. What do you think the ramifications of that would be?

not sure why you keep mentioning sativex. i cant find where its even legal in the u.s. and besides its 'a cannabis based drug', which means it PROVES medical use for pot. there is also marinol. which is a synthetic THC. we ALL know THC is the main compound in marijuana. someone, anyone please explain this hypocrisy to me....marijuana is a schedule I narcotic, which means high risk of abuse, and no known medical use. yet marinol, again synthetic THC is a schedule III, which means no risk of abuse and KNOWN medical uses. hello?? why is synthetic THC medical but not natural?? wouldnt have anything to do with the fact anyone can grow natural THC and only the pfizers of the world can make synthetic THC?? nothin to do with lobbying the feds, right?? im a pothead conspiracy theorist though. jvilleparkergrad, yer the legal drug dealer, can you answer this??

Even if there is medicinal value in THC and CBD, active ingredients in pot, that fact in no way justifies either the use of or the legalization of marijuana. THC/CBD would be obtained by prescription in a more benign form. (Sativex, eg.) There is medicinal value in Vicodin too, but no responsible person insists that Vicodin should be widely available without prescription.

jvilleparkergrad. you obviously know what youre talkin about. can you please answer the question i asked you earlier?? how many people die every year from legal prescription drug overdoses and how many have overdosed EVER from marijuana??

dub190-
Can't let this go by: "if a person were to ingest the coca plant, or eat a bunch of poppy seeds, they would not get high. The marijuana plant, not it's derivatives, gets you high."
Cocaine: For a thousand years South American indigenous peoples have chewed the coca leaf (Erythroxylon coca), a plant that contains vital nutrients as well as numerous alkaloids, including cocaine. So cocaine's effects can be gotten by chewing the plant.
Morphine: Is a natural opiate, an alkaloid contained in the resin of the opium poppy.
The two plants mentioned, therefore, will give cocaine and morphine directly, as does the Cannabis sativa plant give THC directly. Sure, all 3 plants are also put through chemical processes to "distill" the active ingredients into a more pure and potent form.
So, again I ask, if marijuana is a plant that can be directly used for it's "medicinal" properties, then the coca plant and the opium poppy should be as legal as you want Cannabis sativa to be.
We don't spend all of our time in Pharmacy School just learning the name of drugs....we also learn about ALL drugs and the sources from which they are derived.
So please don't disrespect my knowledge about ALL drugs, licit and illicit. Thanks.

Marijuana use does not induce violence. Picture a marijuana bar next to an alcohol bar. Which one is more likely to experience a bar fight?

Unlike cigarettes and alcohol, marijuana has medicinal benefits. Information from the Mayo Clinic shows it has been effective in reducing nausea in chemotherapy cancer patients, stimulating appetite in AIDS patients, reducing muscle spasms and pain in multiple sclerosis patients and reduced pressure in the eyes with glaucoma patients.

A study conducted by Time Magazine and CNN shows that 80% of Americans support the legal use of medicinal marijuana for patients.

Marijuana does not harm the body or mind. According to the Drug Policy Alliance, marijuana does not cause physical dependence nor is it addictive. There is only a small minority who develops a mental dependence, and less than 1% of Americans smoke marijuana on a daily basis.

Unfortunately, the anti-marijuana propaganda suggests that those who use marijuana are smoking their futures away.

Everything is good in moderation.

They lie about marijuana tell you pot smoking makes you unmotivated. Lie! When you're high, you can do everything you normally do just as well . You just realize that it's not worth the effort.

Lighten up people!

High-profile politicians such as Bill Clinton, George W. Bush and Barack Obama have all admitted to using marijuana before, as well as harder substances. Their drug use has not harmed their political careers by any means.

Former president Jimmy Carter stated that penalties against a drug should not be more harmful to an individual than the use of the drug itself. He told congress in 1977 that he supported "legislation amending federal law to eliminate all federal criminal penalties for the possession of up to one ounce of marijuana."

If the U.S. were to legalize marijuana, taxpayers would save billions of dollars. The war on marijuana costs $12 billion annually due to enforcement, prosecution and propaganda against it for law reform.

Around 60% of prisoners in the U.S. are serving for drug offenses. According to the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, there are 830,000 individual marijuana arrests per year, equivalent to 95 per hour, far more than the total number for all violent crimes combined, such as rape, murder and assault. Out of the marijuana violations, nearly 90% of those were charged with possession only.

Marijuana is like a peace lily compared to alcohol and cigarettes; those are the real weeds. There are 400,000 tobacco-related deaths each year and 50,000 people die each year from alcohol poisoning. In the history of mankind, there has not been a single death from marijuana use. It is impossible to die from an overdose on marijuana; one cannot smoke oneself to death.
Smoking marijuana does not cause any serious health problems like those caused by alcohol or tobacco. A study by the UCLA School of Medicine conducted on 243 marijuana smokers over the course of eight years showed "neither the continuing nor the intermittent marijuana smokers exhibited any significantly different rates of decline in lung function as compared with those individuals who never smoked marijuana." The school study concluded, "No differences were noted between even quite heavy marijuana smoking and non-smoking of marijuana."

I don't smoke pot because it is illegal. If it were legal, I might smoke it. BUT ITS NOT, so I don't. I find it funny that everyone is so surprised when they get busted with weed. Its like the people who spin out in the ditch when it snows, and don't understand why they went into the ditch. CAUSE AND EFFECT. Smoke, carry, and sell an illegal product, and eventually the effect will be....Bueller? Right, you will get busted! If enough people fight for change it will come, but I think we are all pretty preoccupied with 3.54+ gallon gas, and other issues. Kinda takes a back seat, IMHO.

i just moved here over a year ago so i didnt know. im slowly learning:) is ok tho. if everyone was like you and me this wouldnt be any fun:)

thekid, as u know this town is full of ignorant bullies and if you don't agree with them we're the bad guys

got ya sassy. but i dont think there are any repercussions for knowing something:) dub190 yer wasting yer time. they dont answer direct questions.

by mentioning IP addresses, I was attempting to say that I am sure there are people who may smoke pot privately and do not want to be vocal about being an advocate of legalizing it because of possible negative repercussions.

That, to my understanding, taints the picture of who will acknowledge their support in this and other public fora.

**Is it forums or fora??? My memory of Latin plurals tell me the plural of um is a, but that sure looks strange and I have to admit, it's been a while since I've needed this info...*blushing* **

i actually learned in an alcohol class that new proof does indeed show marijuana has withdrawal symptoms, only, and this is a quote 'it leaves your body so slowly you dont notice them.' i couldnt make that stuff up. anyways i wont go off on my rant about how there really are no physical withdrawal symptoms from marijuana, cuz unless you smoke, youll never believe me. as for the addiction thing, maybe mentally to some people, im somewhat mentally addicted so i know its possible. but as for the physical addiction, ive described being high like haveing sex. would i like to be having sex? yes. would life be more enjoyable if i were having sex? yes. does it physically bother me that im not having sex?? absolutely not.

dub190: "Reading some of the things said made me almost angry. Then I smoked a bowl, and now I see I overdid it a bit. My mind is much clearer now."
...
Paranoia, withdrawal symptoms, addiction. Living the good life. How come everybody doesn't enjoy all this? Why don't they listen to me when I tell them how great pot is?

DUB... PUT A LOT OF WORK INTO COMPILING THIS POST, SO SIT BACK AND ENJOY:

"pot head, robots, deadbeats, losers, lameasses, Ashley Roachclip, responsibility problems and grooming problems, lazy, irresponsible, forgetful, paranoid, unambitious, hungry, huge problem for the community, greasy, nothing more than a blister on the butt of our society." SO SORRY LADIES, FOR ALL MY NAMECALLING.
"can you post a list of the stoner attorneys in town so if I decide to sue you for impersonating me I can choose a lawyer who isn't on the list?"
"when youre old tell us how your memory is"
"Try looking at people face-down in their tortalini and tell me it's not a negative on society."
"A bunch of stoners out eating amounts to this: brainless, non-sensical chatter (much like your posts) with a glaring absence of good manners and civilized behavior. Eventually, after a short period of time, all the stoners are passed-out face-down in their tortalini."
"Pot smokers konk-out before they smoke enough to kill themselves."
"the fact that you can't grasp the phenomenon of indirect knowledge is telling. This inability is what doesn't allow to comprehend the truth about pot. Instead, you are buried under the weight of your delusions."
"some of these hippies have their headbands on too tight."
"thekid...., you're stoned? I'm shocked, you seem to be making so much sense."
THIS IS MY FAVORITE: "Re: pot heads being drunks too. Be honest, when someone's high on pot they're very consumptive. They're ingest anything to keep that buzz going whether it be more pot, alcohol, or a bag of licorice being passed around in a circle of headband-wearing first-generaton and second-generation hippies."
THIS ONE TOO: "As far as I'm concerned, most pot heads are probably drunks too."
"Where is the study that states many or most pot heads are fine upstanding citizens?"
"Write a post that long while you're as blasted on weed as you usually get."
t's possible to fake dignity under the influence of alcohol; try it while smoking the demon weed, especially with all those burn holes in your t-shirt!"

take a day off and suddenly i need to pimp and i guess i smoke with my kids?? first, whoever was the chimp that wrote that, you know where to go. i would not subject my kids to that lifestyle anymore than i wanted them to see me drink. now when they come home from college in a few years...thats a different story altogetha. lots of good posts on here. its nice to know fldpan and dub190 can pick it up. beautiful jack herer reference dub190. ive showed the video 12 times now and it should be required viewing. as for whoever mentioned about ip addresses easy to find, and hiding or whatever. anyone that wants to email me please do. ive already added a few myspace friends from this convo. even you anti-pot smokers. email me and lets meet. have a coffee with me and let me show you WHO i am. then shake my hand and look me in the eye when you leave and call me a pothead loser. this whole thing is funny anyways. my whole point to all of this isnt if pot is better or worse than alcohol or tobacco. i and other smokers know, but for the sake of argument i will always say at worst it would be equal to alcohol. and i know most of you know someone whos been hurt because of alcohol, so dont even say that pot is worse. can we agree its the same potential negative to the individual?? ive been arrested 12 times for various drinking offenses including 3 owis. knowing this, uncle sam still gives me the option to go to any bar or any liquor store i want, and buy what i want. why?? cuz im a responsible drinker?? nope. cuz im 21. thats it. ive proved since i got drunk at 14 the first time i wasnt a responsible drinker. however ive proven since i got high the first time at 18 with my dude(who died drunk driving btw) that i AM a responsible pot smoker, yet i dont have the option as a responsible tax paying adult citizen in the united states of america to come home from work and smoke some weed?? thats hypocrisy ladies and gentleman. no matter what you may personally think of pot smokers, thats uncle sam sayin this manmade poison is ok, but this 'poison' from mother nature is not. hypocrisy at its greatest

Wow, I go kayaking on the Gulf of Mexico for a few hours and now it's all this!!!

Hannah and ms....sassy, thanks. And thanks to the others for standing fast on the condemnation of marijuana abuse.

And dub..., I am 180 pounds of lean, sinewy man which is something you might want to remember if you ever think about mentioning my parents again.

To your credit, you left an especially worthwhile post. I'll re-post it above.

dub190-
It is also so nice to hear your one-sided rants as well.
I believe this is YOUR quote: "Your ASSumptions are ASSinine!" You know nothing about me.
I am not rude to anyone who comes to my pharmacy. I will sell syringes to people I know are drug abusers, if it prevents ONE person from getting AIDS. I have lost a family member to AIDS and I don't wish that on anyone. And I will even sell them to you with a smile.
BUT, when I politely say I cannot fill your prescription, please don't throw a hissy fit in my face. I know altered/forged prescriptions when I see them. If I am still being harassed, I simply say I will need to call the doctor to verify the narcotic prescription, because that is the next step I am mandated to do if there are questions regarding the script. At that point, I have been screamed at, had my hands grabbed and scratched when I don't obey immediately to "just fill it!", and then having threats made about what will happen when I leave work. Yeah, THEN I will probably not be so polite. I did NOT say they were all potheads, but they are not blameless either.
By the way, cocaine is harvested from plants (leaves of the coca plant), opiates are derived from plants (morphine is the chemical derived directly form poppy seeds; heroin is diacetylmorphine). Morphine is a schedule II narcotic, and is still used as an effective pain medication, but it's abuse potential is very high. Cocaine is still technically a Schedule II drug as well, but it's abuse potential is severe, so I don't know of any pharmacies that order it anymore. Heroin is Schedule I, meaning it is an illegal substance. So, since these plants are given to us to be used the same way, as you suggest with your comment "Don't forget people. Marijuana is a plant! The Bible even says it's ok to smoke it.", then the above plant derivatives should also be available without prescriptions and legal?

as has been discussed on other threads, it is very easy to ascertain IP addresses. I think it is commendable of some who are not afraid of admitting to smoking pot and who are upstanding citizens. the fact remains that it is an illegal activity and, because of the ability to determine the identity of credible advocates of legalizing marijuana, I don't think people are willing to incriminate themselves.

Therefore, I think the majority of the vocal proponents are falling into the stereotypes. Sorry if I offended anyone, but that is my opinion.

Likewise, I would hope that someday smoking marijuana will not be a criminal activity.

oh yeah, and if you didn't portray the exact attitude that we have been trying to dispel as stereotypical on this thread...

*heavy sigh*

you'd get more respect from me if you were a packers fan, of course... :0)

snitches........... Janesville is full of 'em. That is why so many people get popped off for weed charges. Potheads need to learn that there is no money in selling pot, the risk is 10 times larger that the "reward". These idiots will either get probation (if they choose to snitch) of prison (if they choose to not snitch) and guess what, I am willing to bet that they will in turn snitch and the game goes on and on. The best tool that the JPD has in the fight against drugs is snitches not their K-9 unit. All you other drug dealers better beware. The JPD is coming after you.

gazettefan, I appreciate your thought-provoking comments on this and other threads. Granted, I may not always agree with you, but that is irrelevant.

It appears to me that gazettefan has a genuine interest in the subject, as do others posting comments on the opposing view. I respect the opinions and input, nonetheless.

dub190, I have had my "run-ins" with gazettefan, but even I was offended by the rude comments toward him/her.

I have mixed feelings on the legalization of marijuana, because I know people who are on both sides of society who smoke pot on a regular basis. I know of plenty who lead upstanding lives (except, of course, for the illegal consumption of pot) and I know plenty who accept free handouts from social service agencies, who with a little motivation could get menial jobs, pay taxes and pay for their food like the rest of us, but instead choose to watch TV and let their children roam the streets, with little or no supervision.

Is it the pot that determines a person's productivity in a society or is it a pre-disposition instilled in them from character development (or the lack thereof)?

I don't completely buy the rationale that it is the pot that a person smokes.

sjraleigh210: You're right about bashing people for their beliefs - nobody should ever be condemned for their thoughts, their feelings, or their beliefs. They should be condemned only for their illegal or immoral behavior, and illegal and immoral are often one and the same. Immoral behaviors are typically those that produce the most harm. Eg, between the choices of making pot legal and making pot illegal, the choice that produces the least harm is making it illegal, and therefore that is the more moral choice.
...
Re: my previous posts - I think I prefer the term "potbot" to "ropot."

whocares, thanks for bringing sense back to the anti-pot point-of-view.

Now let's see how it goes once the pot heads start responding to your cogent post.

I bet he would pimp those GM workers with a soft hand.

My what long and boring post I just did. Let me reemphasize the bottom line: pot is a hypnotic drug, meaning it makes you very suggestible. And that is the most important reason for not using it. In Nam I once witnessed the local dealer make his users do really stupid things simply by suggesting that it would be really cool or funny [giggle, giggle]. And that's why I believed Bill Clinton when he said he didn't inhale - he faked it among friends. Don't turn yourself into a robot by pot (a "ropot"?).

With GM down traffic will be slow, he needs to become a pimp for GM workers. Be the first kid on the block

sjraleigh210: "the main reason pot isnt legal is that the goverment makes too much money off of itby putting people into jails" .... Our prisons and jails consume so much tax money, that everyone, and especially taxpayers, would close them down in a heartbeat and make the corrections people available for productive purposes, if it were possible - crime is a huge economic drag on society.
...
The government COULD make a lot of money on pot by making it legal and taxing it, so it's not the money. The government is administering society's need to keep people from shooting themselves in the foot and by preventing them from becoming potholes in the road to progess. (sorry - couldn't resist that one.)
...
The most potent argument against pot is it's ability to make users dependent on it. Addiction is when the user can't tolerate NOT using the addicting substance. Use becomes more frequent and at greater doses, and the user becomes intoxicated 24/7, making permanent the negative behavioral impacts of using the substance. Among the worst negative impacts of THC is the development of paranoia and schizophrenia.
...
theKid: You may know of the pharmaceutical drug Sativex, a THC based analgesic that has been cleared for trial use by physicians treating cancer patients, the terminally ill, and patients suffering from MS. If you google: > sativex contraindications bayer < the first hit will be Sativex product information for physicians. Note that this is not government information, it's medical information published by people trying to make money on the sale of the drug.
...
Google > "brown university" marijuana < and the first hit is a thorough summary of marijuana issues for students - again not a government publication. (Brown is a private university.)
...
theKid: your earlier posts about getting your life together by using pot are interesting, but you insult yourself by assuming that you could not have done the same thing without the pot. Are you confessing that your life will fall apart again if your pot supply is interdicted? You may think you need a crutch but you only do if you think you do. Incidentally, that thought is reinforced by the pot - pot is a hypnotic drug, meaning it makes you very suggestible. And that is the most important reason for not using it. In Nam I once witnessed the local dealer make his users do really stupid things simply by suggesting that it would be really cool or funny [giggle, giggle]. And that's why I believed Bill Clinton when he said he didn't inhale - he faked it among friends. Don't turn yourself into a robot by pot (a "ropot"?).

I would let him off, with GM closing his customer base will be dropping off, and he will need to find a new employment. I would recommend PIMP. Someone will need to manage all those out of work GM Workers.

Nicely done, Sparkle

Welcome to the ceaspool known as The Pot Blog, whose prisoner you are and from which there is no escape.

Wow imagine that it only took minutes for a response! How did I ruin my chance to set a good example? You don't even know what my views are on this subject. I haven't said what I think about this and you are already calling me a bad example.

Sparkle, you ruined your chance to set a good example.

Can't believe you're letting thekid... off the hook!

gazettefan- don't you have anything better to do with your time other than sit here and pass judgement on people you don't know and try to put them down? It seems you need a hobby other than stereotyping people and passing judgement.

sjraleigh, next time you tell a story, make sure it has a point, a point would make it so much more interesting to the reader.

The part about you chasing a cop while blasted on weed was funny though. You should have made a citizen's arrest.

Of course no one buys marijuana from gangs. You can tell where it comes from just by reading the label on the package. Justsaynotomath has the same kind of response to everything justsaynotomath disagrees with, "it's crap". I nominate justsaynotomath for the Ashley Roachclip award for excellence in counterpoint.

Yes, billnewbie, that's the kind of reasoning that comes from pot smoking.

So, if I buy marijuana from a drug gang, it's the same as doing 26 in a 25 mph speed zone? If I don't buckle my seat belt, do I risk children dying in a hail of bullets as street gangs fight over control of my lawlessness?

The form in which it is ingested and the nature of its "high" automatically makes its use abusive. Not so with alcohol.

The test of time as shown that we prefer alcohol and reject pot as recreational drugs.

based on that theory gfan alcohol should also be a schedule I narcotic.

I'm not into that government as the boogie-man stuff.

It is the abuse of marijuana by pot heads that causes the ancillary criminal problems and thus the interference with its acceptance as a medicine.

That abuse is why it's a Schedule 1 drug.

billnewbie: i understand why you see my life in that perspective. what you anti-pot smokers are failing to realize is that there is ANOTHER persective. and its not just me. marijuana is the most commonly used illicit drug, there are more of me than you think, im just the ignorant one who doesnt know how to shut up. your post was very well thought out and made a lot of sense. you are correct when you say we disregard most of what we see comes from the govt. just like you anti-pot smokers disregard the stuff that doesnt come from the govt. i dont literally support the murders. i KNOW mine comes from a basement in a city;) but i do understand a large chunk is smuggled in. how can you billnewbie, as obviously an intelligent, rational thinking adult, not realize that if you legalized/de-criminalized marijuana there would be no profit left, and probably motive for far less murders. personal repsonsibility?? from my perspective it is you anti-pot smokers who are not taking personal responsibility, these murders are happening BECAUSE its illegal, but you all take uncle sam for face value, and refuse to question a law thats causing senseless murders.

This is what I mean, thekid..., the JFK assassination has been solved.

billnewbee....
+1 to that post

It seems that nearly all of the information on the internet that supports controlling marijuana use and cites its dangers is on government furnished sites. Many marijuana users reject this information out of hand (government conspiracy). Nearly all of the information cited that supports legalization of marijuana is on sites furnished by pro-legalization groups, which are not exactly disinterested parties.
Many marijuana users claim that marijuana has never caused a death in spite of the government data that claims otherwise. Some admit that the gangs who control the traffic in marijuana are murderous, yet refuse any blame for themselves or their favorite weed, as if those deaths don’t count because they are not pharmaceutical. They deflect their personal responsibility for the murders done to deliver their intoxicant on the government, or attempt to remain willfully ignorant thereof, attempting to wash their hands of the blood that stains their very souls. This is proof that some can repeatedly do that which they know to be wrong while inventing excuses that they can only defend with obfuscation and deception done mainly to convince themselves that they are blameless.

rite on westside. its like uncle sam would say 'well we know its bad cuz it just IS, i dont need to prove it, ive read it'. its kewl gfan, you dont have to answer my question anymore remember, in my last post i answered for you. did you click on that link and look at those websites?? or were u busy solving the jfk assassination??
heres yer 'government marijuana studies' again
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...
i really cant figure out why i continue to discuss this with you and your ignorant stereotypes, refusal to substantiate ANYTHING, and apparent inabitlity to concentrate on a simple question.

I've seen the studies but I'm not going to hunt the internet for them. Most of the stuff on the internet is oppositional to reality. Take the JFK assassination for example. Oswald killed Kennedy and he did it alone. But almost all of the stuff on the internet is pro-conspiracy. Do you really believe the Controlled Substance Act of 1970 is just a list with no empirical basis. I am not here to take up the slack in your erratic thought processes.

As for problems with prescription drugs and alcohol: None of those problems mitigate the problems associated with pot. Quit asking me the same questions or I'm going to start believing that you're nuts.

thekid, they must be gettin high themselves they won't answer u!

gfan yer the one that stated there were studies out there that are why marijuana is still legal. all im askin you to do is back up what you say. why is it my job to prove you correct?? prove yourself. anyone thats asked me questions have gotten straight answers. yet any question i ask is 'spun'. even jvilleparkergrad didnt answer my simple questin of how many prescription drug overdoses there are every year vs pot overdoses EVER. this is the problem with society being ignorant and hypocritical. ive acknowledged the potential downsides. even found a link to a negative website. yet NOT ONE of you will acknowledge that JUST MAYBE uncle sam has misled us for 70 years and maybe what i say AND LIVE about responsible marijuana use may be possible. gfan, just for you here is a google link for 'government marijuana studies'

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q...

click on that and tell me what you see. PLEASE. not that id ever expect you to acknowledge any point of view other than your own. you remind me of a song i found recently 'my realities are clearly defined, by the fences put up around my mind'......

jvilleparker- i as a former parker graduate as well agree with you. My family was well known in the late 80's, early 90's for my siblings accomplishments through sports at the ol cow pie so I know personally about being paranoid..many people in this town knew/know my family so i try to avoid public places while under the influence, is it because i am ashamed at times, or scared of getting arrested? yes, that is for sure. But also I'm sorry that the crazies out there gave us a bad rap, that is a serious problem if someone forges a prescription to get those drugs. Also have u thought of the fact that they may be on more than marijuana? to me, it all comes down to how i was raised.. obviously drugs is something my family does not associate with, but also when you are in public you should be ashamed to treat a pharmasist in that manner!

westside-
Have you read any of the posts made by people who don't think highly of pot?
Is it because you are "too mellow" to actually understand what some of us post here?
I will say it again: After 25 years of dealing with people who are drunk OR stoned at my pharmacy counter, they have been belligerent, rude and threatening. Pot does not mellow a lot of people out! And pot is really notorious for making people more paranoid. I have SEEN it over my long life experience.

Reefer Madness was nuts. We're bashing pot for the right reasons.

all the people bashing pot- do you feel that way just because shows, such as the musical "reefer madness" scared you, or is it the fact that it is illegal???

thekid..., I told you how to get the study. I'm tired of reading your long posts while you're not even reading my short ones.

After catching up on all the dialog between thekid3477 and his detractors (myself included), I am reminded of the Abbott and Costello routine entitled "Who's on first?"

hollynpat, how much does that cost you a month?

gfan still not anwering my quesiont. if its there gfan, show me. my point jvillegrad was that there are pot smokers in all walks of life. you verified that. i guess a pharmacist may be subject to more drug tests;), so the number may be lower in yo profession. understandable. hollynpat have piped in here a bit, and they are rite on track. ultimately i will argue for legalization all day, but the reality is then uncle sam will find a way to poison it. ideally we pot smokers want de-criminalizatin. that means responsible smokers can grow maybe two plants. or possess up to an ounce for personal use without being subject to arrest. this way we dont have to go underground and support the 'murderers'. this is how dane county is, possession wise anyways. citys/countys all over the country have passed ordinances making pot the 'lowest priority' of crime. until uncle sam agrees, you still risk fed/state arrest. i smoke pot daily. that does not make me a criminal.....

Yes, there may be pharmacists out there that use pot. However, in the states I have practiced pharmacy, pharmacists are subject to random drug testing, perhaps more than any other profession. If you are found with THC in your urine, you are suspended. Not too many of my peers are willing to risk smoking pot and have their career ruined after going to college for 6 to 8 years, internship and passing national and state board exams. I'm sure there are a few out there, because I do see the pharmacists named for such conduct in my bulletins from the different states' Boards of Pharmacy and what their fines and punishments are.

As has been my experience, a good number of the drug overdoses are from people who abuse narcotics/stimulants, or sell them to people who don't have a tolerance for that drug and take the amount recommended by their dealer. Also, have had people sell the Fentanyl patches, cut them apart to get the narcotic out, and then inject it. Now there are laws that have removed ephedrine from the shelves, and restrict the sale of pseudoephedrine, because people use this stuff to make methamphetamine (if they don't blow themselves or their neighbors up first). There are so many other ways people use prescription drugs abusively as well.
I have noted, however, that telling a drunk or someone high on pot that I won't fill their illegal prescriptions has gotten me the same response: abusive language, belligerence, and threats to do me bodily harm. Please don't tell me that pot makes people mellow out. 25 years of doing this job makes me qualified to say otherwise.

when I'm high, I feel as though I'm in a normal state. I'm not drunk, I'm high. normality to an everyday smoker whos been smoking for 20 plus years.

The study that marijuana's illegality is based on is available by contacting the appropriate govenment agency. The effects of and the nature of marijuana use make it a drug that is naturally abused. That's why it's illegal.

You should advocate yourself from driving while, buzzed, stoned, or zonked.

i smoke medically for alcoholism/depression. i smoke recreationally cuz i like how being high makes me feel. can you answer my question now gfan?? im not gonna retype it. youve avoided it a few times.

i never said i dont smoke and drive. i said i dont advocate smoking and driving. i AVERAGE 3 times a day. my smokes are not getting me high. they get me buzzed. my morning smoke is before 6, before yoga or laundry or breakfast or whatever else it is i have to do and well gone by the time im ready for work over 2 hours later. i wont smoke during the work day. i could, but out of respect for the guy that signs my check, i chose not to. and of course i smoke when the sun goes down too. honestly, the nite smoke is more than a buzz. im 'high' there. days off and weekends i can catch a buzz 4-7 times a day. each lasts 45 min to an hour. i dont doubt you had people coming in reeking of pot askin to fill fake scripts. again, losers are losers, pot or alcohol only enhances that fact. in any of my rants have i said its a perfect drug?? what i continually say is that like MOST EVERYTHING ELSE, its all on the individual and uncle sam is a hypocrite by allowing me the option to drink(after 3owis) and not the option to smoke. period. there are responsible smokers out there. business people. drs. lawyers. pharmacists. marijuana is the most commonly used illicit drug. there are people everywhere who smoke pot. THEY DONT TELL YOU CUZ ITS ILLEGAL. i answered yer questions jvilleparkergrad, anything anyone else wants to know about my lifestyle please just ask. unlike other people here i will answer pretty much any direct question. question for you jvillparkergrad....if you worked in a pharmacy, im sure youve seen the numbers. how many people overdose from THE DIRECT USE of prescribed drugs every year?? whether obtained legally or illegally, how many?? and then tell me how many have EVER DIED FROM THE DIRECT USE OF MARIJUANA??

thekid..., what medical condition are you treating with pot?

thekid3477-
I just have a couple of questions: You say you don't drive while you are high? And you said you smoke 3X a day? So, are you driving to work after smoking in the morning, or running errands during the day or before you come home from work?
I've dealt with "recreational pot smokers" as a pharmacist for a lot of years. They stand at the counter reeking of pot (I mean, like they sat in their cars for 8 hours smoking pot, with the windows rolled up), eyes so red they can hardly see, and try to pass off forged prescriptions for Vicodin, Percocet, OxyContin, or whatever their preferred narcotic of choice is. This has happened so many times that I have a hard time believing that pot is so safe.

so does this mean yer not gonna answer my question gfan?? or find me a link to a study that shows why marijuana is currently illegal??
since i dont know you i would never want to lay judgement on you. i wouldnt call you an ignorant hypocrite. i said i was freakin out cuz society is full of ignorant hypocrites. trust me, ask my fam, ask my friends, im freakin out about this ignorant law waywaywaywaywayway more than this trivial blog. im just hopin to open some eyes and i gots the time on my hands to type:). unless you meet me in person, you cant grasp how strongly i believe in what im doing. as for whydoyouask, he originally pointed out that this 8lbs weed is high grade ditch weed only. if hes aware of the true market value, he prolly understands whats goin on here.....

Who are you calling an ignorant hypocrite? me or whydoyouask?

gfan im way to successful to smoke the ditch weed that guy was stockin. responsible smokers know where to get GOOD pot. im freakin out cuz society if full of ignorant hypocrites....

cookies......yummy

great research?? what research. did you see those links?? THEY PROVE MY POINT. pot would be no worse on society than alcohol or tobacco currently are. everything hannah found AT WORST put pot on a level with alcohol/tobacco. or let me guess gfan, you didnt actually read that either. ill give you an opportunity to shut me up gfan, you answer this direct question OR show me a link to one of those studies you referred to earlier that are responsible for keeping marijauna illegal and i swear on the marijuana that i love you will not see my name on this story again. and dont give me yer judgemental bs cuz just like all drinkers are not alcoholics, all smokers are NOT pothead losers. OTHER THAN THE POSSIBILITY OF MORE 'HIGH' DRIVING, TELL ME ONE NEGATIVE EFFECT LEGAL MARIJUANA WILL HAVE ON OUR SOCIETY??

As I said before, lakennedy, the guy's claim that it was for his personal use would have been believable if the police had also found 8 pounds of cookies.

Maybe the 8 pounds wasn't for the personal use of the guy in story and he happens to be __________'s dealer, and that's why __________ is freaking out.

hannah, great research. You'd think that would shut thekid... up, but noooo!!!

whydoyouask..., can you post a list of the stoner attorneys in town so if I decide to sue you for impersonating me I can choose a lawyer who isn't on the list?

I believe it. I smoked three pounds just last night. I was so fried that I started posting anti-marijuana rants under the handle "gazettefan." Crazy, huh? :)

So, I was just wondering...does anyone believe that this guy was keeping 8 pounds for personal use? That's a lot of dope!!!

lmao, hanna, props to you for actually doing what none of the other stereotypers did, and take ten seconds to do some research, unfortunately for you, you proved my point:) did you actually read those 'negative' websites?? heres a quote from the first one....
'In the Netherlands, where the sale of marijuana is allowed to responsible adults age 18 or older, the use of marijuana by minors is five times less than what it is in the United States, according to the British Medical Journal. Regulating the sale of marijuana would raise tens of millions of dollars each year. This money could be used to fund substance abuse treatment upon demand for alcoholics and other addicts (currently, 90% of these people are turned away when seeking treatment) as well as eliminate a large prison population. This is not the “cross over drug” that tobacco is and “The Cannabis Tax Act” would raise much-needed money”.'
the second link actually states in the section about cannabis and cancer that it does indeed cause cancer, i can find research to dispute that, and have put links talking about marijuana halting the spread of breast cancer, but anyways it says in that section that its commonly accepted that its not as harmful as tobacco.....WHICH IS FREAKIN LEGAL!!...and you got these from googling 'thc bad' try 'thc good' once:)

please. dont get me started on the addiction thing. uggghhhhh. hannah so you prove theres such a thing as a responsible drinker. is it possible, that i can be a responsible pot smoker?? just possible maybe??

im not addicted to marijuana as much as i am addicted to educating people about it....

for those of you who say all we have to do is get a majority on our side, and it will be legal. flashback: california 1996. enough citizens got togethor and took the democratic steps to get prop 215(medical marijuana) on the ballot. more californians voted for prop 215 than president clinton in 1996. an overwelming majority. so the citizens of california DID EVERYTHING LEGAL they could to have the option for medical marijuana. that prop 215 is still in place, and medical marijauna is legal in CA. yet uncle sam(feds) continually raid and arrest CALIFORNIA LAW ABIDING CITIZENS for the possession, distribution, or cultivation of medical marijuana. i love the united states and obviously would chose democracy over any other govt but dont tell me democracy works every time or that its as simple as just doing it...

i dont insist you find me the negatives. the smokers here have posted more than enough info from various websites. while they may coincide with their personal opinions, they also substantiate their personal opinions. all i did was simply ask you to back up what yer saying with actual data. and still, none. gfan mentioned some studies that are why marijuana is still illegal. where are those?? you make claims and ignorant stereotypes, which is fine to post your opinion, im simply asking you to substantiate your opinion for me. you refuse to acknowledge the info many posters here have given you. did you read any of it?? every RESPONSIBLE smoker i know acknowledges the increased risk of driving while high, and the potential for some people to have negative personal issues with marijuana. yet we are the ones who 'reason has nothing to do with our opinions'......

Some herein insist that I and others supply proof of the detrimental effects of marijuana use. I do not spend my time sifting through contradictory studies. Intoxicating oneself should be detrimental in that it induces one to say things he would not normally say and do things he would not normally do, in short, it impedes the judgment of the intoxicated. Over time, these effects can become permanent. Relationships can be destroyed, the innocent can be hurt (children mostly). The intoxicated are prone to accidents (not just behind the wheel). Eventually, those who intoxicate themselves frequently exist only to obtain and imbibe in their intoxicant of choice, forsaking all their responsibilities. It is true that alcohol is responsible for most of those who descend to such a state, but that is because it is cheaper, more readily available, more socially acceptable, and, most notably, legal. As you may have surmised, I am opposed to intoxication no matter what intoxicant is used. If the fact that to obtain marijuana you must deal with murderers does not establish a sufficient detriment, nothing else that anyone says will either. As I said before, reason will not change your mind as reason has nothing to do with your opinion.

Repetitive, non-productive behavior.

westside, I stopped going to Denny's ever since I found out that Beefadephia wasn't a real place.

sry, heres the cnn story
http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9903/17/medica...

ive known a few drinkers to pass out at dinner, but not a stoner. stop playin games and answer my question, give me a negative on SOCIETY?? or a link to one of those studies i asked for. why do you keep avoiding me?? heres a negative link for you...
http://www.justice.gov/dea/ongoing/marij...
of course that comes from uncle sam courtesy of the d.e.a. it says in there regarding a study in 1999 the Institute of Medicine determined that 'there is little future in smoked marijuana as a medically approved medication' yet theres a report on cnn.com about that same report and it says 'The report, by the Institute of Medicine, said that for many, marijuana does have "therapeutic value" for pain relief' so who do you believe?? cnn or uncle sam?? why would uncle sam lie;)?? why would cnn lie?? here, skip them both and read the actual report from the Institute of Medicine....
http://www.iom.edu/CMS/3775/5608.aspx

my boyfriend and i like to smoke before we go out to dinner, and the past 7 years neither one of us has been face down in our food, or even close...maybe at dennys at 3 am after being at the bar all night lol...

Try looking at people face-down in their tortalini and tell me it's not a negative on society.

I'm opposed to the negative effects of alcohol.

hollynpat, I resent the implication.

gfan, i asked for an adverse effect on society, and you come up with this 'A bunch of stoners out eating amounts to this: brainless, non-sensical chatter (much like your posts) with a glaring absence of good manners and civilized behavior. Eventually, after a short period of time, all the stoners are passed-out face-down in their tortalini.' thats a negative on society?? you make me lol gazettefan. you say my posts are 'non-sensical chatter' yet you cant give me a REAL NON JUDGEMENTAL negative on society. yup but you spew logic. did you find me a link to one of those studies you mentioned earlier?? do you want me to list the negatives alcohol already create?? or do you want me to find a few links to the positives of marijuana?? and seabee i understand i chose to break the law. i chose to be a criminal. im aware of the law and when it was created. i assume yer aware of a little thing in history called alcohol prohibition. tell me seabee if its ok to drink why was there ever alcohol prohibition?? maybe because of misinformation and ignorance?? possibly?? is it possible that the current marijauna prohibition was based on misinformation and ignorance?? alcohol prohibition was beat because it was a social drug when it was outlawed. marijuana was a new drug they new nothing about when it was outlawed, and if you want to actually read about how henry anslinger and william randolph hearst were involved in spreading the reefer madness you might actually see that there was a lot of misinformation and ignorance. marijauna cant beat prohibition as easily as alcohol did because even the pot smokers now are afraid to talk about what they do because of ignorant stereotypes and the repercussions of being a 'criminal'. what would i know tho, ive only spent the last 3 years reading everything i can on BOTH sides of the story and smoking multiple times a day WITHOUT A SINGLE NEGATIVE EFFECT. so why would my opinion be relevant......

WHY DON'T WE STICK TO THE TOPIC? THIS IS ABOUT A GUY CLAIMING 8 POUNDS OF POT WAS FOR PERSONAL USE. NOT A TOPIC WHERE WE GET A BUNCH OF IDIOTS ACTING LIKE THEY KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT POT. WHAT ARE YOU GUYS SCINTIST?? YOU WANT TO GIVE THE GOVERNMENT MORE MONEY. I KNOW THE POLICE AREN'T VERY SMART IN THIS TOWN, BUT I'M SURE THEY KNOW BETTER THAN TO BELIEVE THAT HE WAS USING THE WEED AS PERSONAL.

I don't know, JohnDoe, maybe one of the stoner attorneys can fill us in.

...with help from the tavern league who obviously have a lot of lobbying power in Madison.

If criminal behaviour is the main issue...then why are taverns allowed to keep illegal gambling machines without any repercussion from law enforcement?
I guess only the state can decide which laws to ignore.....

Kidd, blaming the government for making you a criminal and an accessory to criminals is laughable. The stuff has been illegal since before you were born. The choice to commit criminal behavior and to consort with, aid and abbet criminals was yours, not Uncle Sam's.

thekid....OK, I've been letting you off easy, but not no more.

First: I haven't mentioned the driving thing in a long time.

Second: Here's an example of how legalizing pot will harm society:

When people are out at a restaurant eating and sipping drinks, it's almost always a pleasant experience for everyone involved -friendly conversation abounding with witticisms.

A bunch of stoners out eating amounts to this: brainless, non-sensical chatter (much like your posts) with a glaring absence of good manners and civilized behavior. Eventually, after a short period of time, all the stoners are passed-out face-down in their tortalini.

HEY GAZETTEFAN. i asked billnewbie a queston too and neither of you have answered. ANSWER MY FREAKIN QUETION: other than POSSIBLY increased 'stoned' driving, what OTHER negative effect will legal pot have on society?? and again, i have yet to see one of those new studies that you refer to....find me ONE......PLLLLEEEAAAAASSSEEEEEEEEE.

westside, enough what? Clear meaningful logic or side-splitting humor?

i agree billnewbies recent posts are dead on. again, thats why we need marijuana law reform. uncle sam forces us to buy from criminals, and be criminals ourselves for the mere possession of a plant. answer my questions billnewbie, other than possibly more driving incidences what negative would legalized marijuana bring on our society?? and do you or do you not agree that legalized marijuana would eliminate the need for me to support an underground 'network'?? how many al capones have we heard of since the end of alcohol prohibition??

billnewbie, your posts are dead-on, man.

gazette fan..enough

Pigbrain, unfortunately the laws don't only show concern for the 'losers' that this article was written about. I think what tends to happen is that the good people in society that choose to smoke are just smarter about it and don't get caught. Obviously, some people are just ignorant and couldn't fart in their car without getting in trouble for it.

I think the only reason I personally don't smoke pot is the fact that it's illegal and I have a daughter that is more important to me than sitting in a cell. Although, I do go out occasionally and drive after a few drinks. Not that I'm saying it's right or I'm making the right decision, but there's no reason we should be able to drink, but not smoke.

P.S. Thank god this guy didn't get caught by the Town of Beloit, they would have towed his car too! (Sorry, couldn't help myself. LOL)

Until it's legal you're buying it from criminals. Stop breaking the law and stop supporting murderers.

I agree with your comments, billnewbie, to a point. I agree that buying an illegal drug is supporting illegal/immoral and bad behavior.

Where I disagree: negative effects of buying marijuana should not supersede the benefits of smoking marijuana. I don't believe that smoking marijuana has the negative effects being reported when used responsibly.

ditto, bill.

billnewbie yer post was very well written. and is the EXACT reason we need marijuana law reform. were smokin it anyways, why not have uncle sam regulate it so we support him instead of those types of people you talk about??

Many here argue that marijuana should be legalized. You are free to present your arguments on this and any other forum. If you can persuade the majority, you can prevail. Some admit to using marijuana in defiance of the law while claiming it does no harm and that they are upstanding citizens. Surely they are aware of from whom they buy marijuana. Upstanding organizations such as street gangs and motorcycle gangs, among others, who have no problem with murdering competitors and killing innocent bystanders, are their suppliers. They smuggle marijuana into the country using illegal immigrants as disposable shields. They grow marijuana on parkland within our country using booby-traps such as explosives and trip-wire devices to protect their crops and they don’t care if an innocent stumbles onto their traps. These are the people that users fund. Those who break the law and buy marijuana are the turf that these criminals commit murder to protect. There is no rational excuse for dealing with drug dealers. Those who buy marijuana share in the dealer's guilt.

Paisleysdaddy: I have no negative statements to say about well respected pot smoking business owners. I know they exist and they'll get no trouble from me. My comment only concerns the losers in which the article was written about.

gazettefan, I believe I was misunderstood. Yes, marijuana is an "illegal drug". Far too often, crimes are shown as being because of "illegal drugs", which I would claim to mean heroin, cocaine, crack cocaine, crystal meth, etc.

What I can say as a legitimate argument to have marijuana become legalized is that, currently, it tends to be a gateway drug, of sorts. If the "excitement" of doing something illegal is removed, smoking pot may not escalate into experimentation with other drugs. I don't know.

Put the coffee down!!!

Coffee's for closers!!!

ms...sassy, true about the munchies.

But I reject using the problems associated with other kinds of drugs as a way of defending pot.

It's like defending battery by saying it's not as bad as homicide.

first: i didnt say that was you. i said it was a distant relative of yours;)

second: im a pot smoker and 'as a pot smoker you can so easily create a scenario that is a gross rejection of realty'. my life is reality. how do you know what youve been told is reality?? yer rite, pot and alcohol arent the same. one kills and the other medicates.

third: do you know why marijuana is illegal now?? its no mistake to claim that an action 70 years ago is why its illegal today, ummm it was sorta that action that put the law in place. do you know how much it takes to change a federal law?? and how much harder it is because people have read/learned nothing but negatives about pot for 70 years?? as for it should have been acceptable by now, yer rite it should have been, to many ignorant and hypocritical people out their like yoself with yo heads up yo a$$e$. you think uncle sams gonna help?? HE GETS RICH OFF ILLEGAL MARIJAUNA AND HAS A WAY TO 'CONTROL' AS LONG AS MARIJUANA IS CLASSIFIED AS AN ILLEGAL DRUG.

fourth: as fo yo test of time argument, add up the total number of deaths, just freakin guess for me, that those two drugs are proven to be responsible for in that 70 years...PLEASE.

fifth: gfan, you have yet to bring any substance to this debate. all you talk about is driving and ignorant stereotypes, and all the smokers acknowledge were not about driving, were about responsible use. posters have asked numerous questions that you avoid finding an actual answer. please gfan, i have a question and a favor for you. question: other than POSSIBLY increased 'stoned' driving, what OTHER negative effect will legal pot have on society?? and the favor: please, please, go to google and find me ONE of these new studies you refer to....PLLLLEEEAAAAASSSEEEEEEEEE....

while I see humor in your post, gazettefan, it is not the pot smoker who causes harm to society. When someone "runs out" of pot, they don't rob their neighbors or banks.

They will, more likely, be on the couch watching a comedy and supporting local businesses (like pizza delivery)! haha

I like this interesting dichotomy about pot:

The fact that it doesn't produce dynamic behavior is the very same reason it doesn't directly kill people. Pot smokers konk-out before they smoke enough to kill themselves.

thekid..., first: you shouldn't even be kidding about attributing words to me that I didn't say.

Second: It's no accident that as a pot smoker you can so easily create a scenario that is a gross rejection of realty. The scenario doesn't work because pot and alcohol aren't exactly the same.

Third: You make the mistake of claiming that an action 70 years is why pot is illegal now. If pot is what you claim it is, then enough time has passed for it to be accepted by the government and the people as something that should be legal.

Fourth: Alcohol has stood the test of time. It even survived Prohibition. Pot has not survived ITS prohibition. This is the case because studies since then have shown it to be a dangerous drug that lacks the ability to mesh with society in a healthy manner, as does alcohol. Pot's illegality is based on studies much more recently than 70 years ago. The complaints about pot back then no longer apply and are no longer a factor. It's the recent studies that cause pot to be illegal.

I suppose they have their trusted/trustworthy sources, not just from some thug on some miscellaneous street corner in the hood

And they buy their pot from people who are similar to the people in the story?

i cant resist. one...more...post.....
i found this telegraph exchange from 1929. it is apparently a debate between a relative of mine and gfans. so i just transcribed it fo all of you

thekid: 'this is ridiculous, these people are not criminals for having 8 gallons of moonshine, uncle sam is the criminal for prohibiting alcohol, when used responsibly by tax paying citizens alcohol is harmless'
gfan: 'kid, people arent dying from LEGAL marijuana, why would we want to legalize alcohol and have so many more senseless deaths'
kid: 'hypocrisy, if its ok for you to smoke pot responsibly, why cant i drink responsibly??'
gfan: 'cuz the only people that drink are obviously losers, look at the drawings of the people arrested'
kid: 'ugghhh, yer not listening gfan, these people would still be losers if alcohol, was legal, but it would mean that i can consume alcohol without having to pay ridiculous black market prices and watch the profits go to al capone and the rest of the underground thugs'
gfan: 'ugghhh, yer not listenin kid, uncle sam does what is best for our society, and i dont care if you and your friends have a responsible drink or two every day'
kid: 'ive lived both lives gfan, i know my life with pot and my life with alcohol, you think im the only one out there that drinks responsibly?? there are way more responsible drinkers than you may think gfan. its illegal so they dont tell you they drink, but trust me, they drink'
gfan: 'it doesnt matter kid, i know what ive read and heard, so i know im right, i dont care about yo personal experiences'
kid: 'ignorance and hypocrisy, uncle sam is ignorant because he continues to deny the benefits of legal alcohol, while spending senseless money fighting al capone and the likes, hes hypocritical becuase as long as he allows responsible tax paying adults the option to smoke pot, i should absofreakinlutely have the option to drink a beer. period.'

and, to be fair, I know MANY MANY people who smoke pot who are an "anchor" to society, as well. Folks who don't have jobs, but make more children and have an attitude of "entitlement"

The professionals that I know that smoke pot go to work every day, pay their taxes, are well-respected and great to be around.

The societal "anchors" that I know that smoke pot don't work, don't pay taxes, collect food stamps and live fairly pathetic lives.

Pot doesn't make or break a person's ability to be productive members of society. A person's belief system and values do.

I know MANY MANY professionals who smoke pot. By professionals, I mean: attorneys, contractors, doctors and police officers...

like many here, I think if it were legal it would be much like stopping for a soda or a beer.

IMHO, the REAL issue is responsible consumption.

ms....sassy, then how do you explain paisleydaddy's claims?

gazettefan, you asked, "Why are all the people arrested for selling pot and smoking pot similar to the people in the above story?"

because (and only because) it is currently illegal to do so.

paisleydaddy, it's a curious thing about this secret aristocracy of pot smokers. Seems if it were true, the push to legalize pot would have a prominent and productive standing, yet it does not.

As for the "stereotype" of what a pot dealer and a pot smoker is, wouldn't this be the type of person that the aristocy buys its pot from? Or is the aristocy in the business of selling pot too? Regarless of who the pot is purchased from, what kind of "respectable" person is involved in such transactions? What are they risking? Why are all the people arrested for selling pot and smoking pot similar to the people in the above story?

blood, good stuff.

I hope some of the bloggers here don't take blood's posts as an endorsement for taking illegal drugs. Those posts do no such thing.

It's clear that Americans are doing too much substance. The drug companies have bamboozled us, royally.

Just a comment about an earlier statement by pigbrain about these people being 'losers'. You're full of crap. I know some very well respected business owners that you would never know smoke on the side. So now the guys that build communities and make the world a better place for the rest of us are 'losers' now? I think not. I'd rather be a pot smoking executive than have to fill your shoes as an officer and deal with all the real scum out there.

That's all I have to say about that...
BLOOD

continued again...
One proposed solution to the illegal drug problem was encouraging potential users to ignore peer pressure and "just say no." Interestingly, this strategy is not being recommended for prescription drugs. Bruce Pomeranz, MD , one of the authors of the JAMA paper, said he is not warning people to stay away from drugs. "That would be a terrible message," he said. Lucian Leape, MD, of the Harvard School of Public Health said, "When you realize how many drugs we use, maybe those numbers aren't so bad after all." [4]

Does that mean that the number of deaths due to illegal drugs, suicide, HIV/AIDS, diabetes, accidents, and drunk driving "aren't so bad" either? Does it mean that we shouldn't discourage drunk driving or unsafe sex?

The folly of such double standards should be obvious to all. It is time to address the real drug problem -- the cultural notion that the first solution to seek for relief of life's problems is a drug. That's the drug culture we need to address.

continued---
The findings are summarized in the abstract:

"A definitive review and close reading of medical peer-review journals, and government health statistics shows that American medicine frequently causes more harm than good. The number of people having in-hospital, adverse drug reactions (ADR) to prescribed medicine is 2.2 million. Dr. Richard Besser, of the CDC, in 1995, said the number of unnecessary antibiotics prescribed annually for viral infections was 20 million. Dr. Besser, in 2003, now refers to tens of millions of unnecessary antibiotics.

The number of unnecessary medical and surgical procedures performed annually is 7.5 million. The number of people exposed to unnecessary hospitalization annually is 8.9 million. The total number of iatrogenic deaths shown in the following table is 783,936. It is evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the United States. The 2001 heart disease annual death rate is 699,697; the annual cancer death rate, 553,251."

Drugs Number One Killer

The authors conclude: "When the number one killer in a society is the healthcare system, then, that system has no excuse except to address its own urgent shortcomings. It's a failed system in need of immediate attention. What we have outlined in this paper are insupportable aspects of our contemporary medical system that need to be changed -- beginning at its very foundations."

A recent article in Archives of Internal Medicine [7] stated that in the seven year period from 1998 through 2005, reported serious adverse drug events increased 2.6-fold, and fatal adverse drug events increased 2.7-fold. The authors noted that reported serious events increased 4 times faster than the total number of outpatient prescriptions during the period. Another study concluded that the majority(86%) of the adverse drug reactions for which patients were admitted to a medical intensive care unit were preventable. [8]

One proposed solution to the illegal drug problem was..

Subject: Recreational Drugs FAR Less Likely to Kill You than Prescribed Drugs!

Recreational Drugs FAR Less Likely to Kill You than Prescribed Drugs!
By Christopher Kent, D.C., J.D.

Recreational drugs, including cocaine and heroin, are responsible for an estimated 10,000-20,000 American deaths per year [1,2]. While this represents a serious public health problem, it is a "smokescreen" for America's real drug problem. America's "war on drugs" is directed at the wrong enemy. It is obvious that interdiction, stiff mandatory sentences, and more vigorous enforcement of drug laws have failed.

The reason is simple. Cause and effect have been reversed.

The desire to solve problems by taking drugs is a product of our culture. When a child is taught by loving parents that the appropriate response to pain or discomfort is taking a pill, it is obvious that such a child, when faced with the challenges of adolescence, will seek comfort by taking drugs.

Drugs are Dangerous Whether Pushed or Prescribed

While approximately 10,000 per year die from the effects of illegal drugs, an article in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) reported that an estimated 106,000 hospitalized patients die each year from drugs which, by medical standards, are properly prescribed and properly administered. More than two million suffer serious side effects. [3]

An article in Newsweek [4] put this into perspective. Adverse drug reactions, from "properly" prescribed drugs, are the fourth leading cause of death in the United States. According to this article, only heart disease, cancer, and stroke kill more Americans than drugs prescribed by medical doctors. Reactions to prescription drugs kill more than twice as many Americans as HIV/AIDS or suicide. Fewer die from accidents or diabetes than adverse drug reactions. It is important to point out the limitations of this study. It did not include outpatients, cases of malpractice, or instances where the drugs were not taken as directed.

According to another AMA publication, drug related "problems" kill as many as 198,815 people, put 8.8 million in hospitals, and account for up to 28% of hospital admissions. [5] If these figures are accurate, only cancer and heart disease kill more patients than drugs. Has the situation improved since the publication of this information? Hardly. Null [6] et al have published the most comprehensive and well-documented study I have seen of deaths associated with medical practice. In this report, their research revealed some shocking facts.

The findings are summarized in the abstract:

You "knew" I was against medical marijuana, well you were wrong.

That's true: I was kicked out of Mensa for being a know-it-all.

What I said in simple terms is you are a "know it all"

casey, can you restate your last post? I don't understand it as written.

dub190 While all that may be true and you have facts to back it up that goes against what gazette fan says and that is what is really important here.

Medical marijuana: Good

Stoners behind the wheel: Bad

The 5:40 post should read: "EmployERs have the right to test for illegal drugs."

fldpan, agreed, the welfare system destroyed thousands of American families. But this is not analogues to the drug matter.

Another example on rights of employers: If an employer discovers that an employee is a burglar but never stoled anything from the employer, that employer still has the right to fire that employee. How can it be any other way?

fldpan, your error re: drug testing by employers is: Employees have the right to test for illegal drugs. It doesn't matter if there's no evidence of impairment on the job. Employers can also require an employee to not say certain things without this requirement being a violation of the First Amendment.

Back to the drugs: If an employee tests positive for an illegal drug, it doesn't matter if impairment on the job was not obvious or not proven. How is an employer able to determine that such a drug user will never be impaired on the job? And, it's not just a matter of impairment on the job, it's also a matter of an employer having the right to fire anyone engaged in illegal activity.

Sure it's bad that all that money is spent on this problem. That doen't mean that pot should be legal. Try applying your reasoning to other kinds of law enforcement. (It's too expensive, so let's make it legal!)

fldpan, if it's your point that doing something illegal causes people to go to prison, you've made that point nicely.

People who rob and kill go to prison too.

crafty, you're wrong about everything but the decision to leave.

thekid..., you know if you went to AA meetings, your sponsers and the other alcoholics would not approve of your pot smoking.

fldpan, your citation refers to direct deaths. It's clear that pot smoking and driving produces fatal car crashes. Pot smoking is also largely associated with drunkedness and drunk driving.

That's a hell of a party.

I asked a bunch of questions. No one will answer them. I wonder why. Just like Kid said, if you have never smoked. You just don't know.
I kind of think some of you come here to talk yourselves up to make yourselves feel better. Maybe because your life sucks? You have a dead end job, and realize money can't buy you true happiness. Maybe I'm wrong. Either way I'm outta here too. All the negativity is not worth my time.

Please, more people need to start smoking weed. It's less competition for the good jobs, so please, start and keep toking!

i know im still an alcoholic hannah. thats why i dont drink. its an incurable disease. you dont have to be sorry, its also a genetic disease that could be life 'debillitating';). cannabis helped me to stop bein sorry and see a life without alcohol and now it keeps my disease away. anyone wanna argue with me on that fact?? contact me. please tell me you know ME and what works for ME better than ME. regardless of what any of you have read or heard, unless you smoke marijuana, YOU JUST DONT KNOW. as for the non medicatin recreational smokin peeps out there. hypocrisy. keep tokin cuz as long as uncle sam allows thousands of senseless alcohol and tobacco related deaths every year, he should absolutely allow responsible tax paying adult citizens the option to relax with marijuana if they so chose. ive gotten a handful of emails givin me props on my posts. thank you. ive tried gettin out a few times, but ignorance(prolly mine:) keeps pullin me back in. im done tho. for those of you who have learned something, thank you. for those of you who refuse to learn. thank you too, your lack of actual factual data in these discussions shows the people who sit on the fence absolutely nothing. its like the cubs fans tellin the yankees fans they know more about what its like to win the world series because theyve had 100 years to think about it:) good day.....

thekid...the fact that you can't grasp the phenomenon of indirect knowledge is telling. This inability is what doesn't allow to comprehend the truth about pot. Instead, you are buried under the weight of your delusions. You exhibit the symptom of pot smoking that shows itself as Disconnection. This causes you to reject the results of comprehensive studies. It's not good to be unteachable.

Your best bet here is to acknowledge the truth about pot smoking and then proclaim that somehow it doesn't apply to you. Then hope we don't view your proclamation as just another pot smoking sympton: Grandiosity.

billnewbie i didnt misquote you. i used part of your quote and ommitted the rest. the reason i used just that part was cuz i agree with that. i can tell you horror stories about vietman, because ive read about them and heard my father tell countless stories but compared to what my dad and any vet who was actually there know, i have NO IDEA. the reason i ommitted the second half of yer quote is cuz i think yer completely wrong on that. you said 'and that one’s own personal biases distort one’s personal experience' really?? i tend to believe the opposite and that ones personal experiences will distort their personal biases.

Is it just me, or did the other mug shots magically disappear?

thekid3477:
The whole quote is as follows "Some claim that only personal experiences are grounds for legitimate opinion and a lack of first hand knowledge disqualifies one’s comments, while ignoring the fact that most of what any person knows is a result of someone else’s experience, and that one’s own personal biases distort one’s personal experience". You intentionally misquoted me. Yet more disception from your prolific imagination.

i'd rather get in the car after smoking, than after drinking! i've never had a negative experience while driving high, or while my friends drove... but after drinking some that is a scary experience

its funny that the pot smokers on here talk about no driving and being responsible pot smokers. EVEN THE COPS posting here agree that alcohol is the demon drug and marijuana law reform is needed. yet the anti-pot smokers post about the possibility of more 'stoned' drivers and continue to reference headbands and just ignorant stereotypes. it will be hard to change the mind of a smoker. why?? because WE KNOW pot is not the drug its been portrayed to be. its also hard to change the biased mind of an anti-pot smoker. why?? cuz for 70+ years now uncle sam has misinformed. period.
i think billnewbie, you sum up pretty much everything in life when you say 'personal experiences are grounds for legitimate opinion and a lack of first hand knowledge disqualifies one’s comments'. how is my first hand use NOT more relevant than someones whos never smoked it??

Great post, billnewbie, very lucid.

The pro-pot posts here are perfect evidence that clear thinking and pot smoking do not go together.

An aggravating factor is: apparently some of these hippies have their headbands on too tight.

Many people believe what they want to believe. If you want to believe there is a vast conspiracy against marijuana, then it is likely that almost nothing will dissuade you. If you think your government wastes resources on intentionally slanted studies, while accepting without question the studies of those who work for legalization, not much is likely to change your mind. Some claim that only personal experiences are grounds for legitimate opinion and a lack of first hand knowledge disqualifies one’s comments, while ignoring the fact that most of what any person knows is a result of someone else’s experience, and that one’s own personal biases distort one’s personal experience. Some go so far as to claim that large scale marijuana production would solve the economic problems of the world, adding millions of jobs and trillions in profits, as if there is an abundance of arable land lying unused and waiting for cultivation. For these who so believe, reason cannot dissuade as reason has nothing to do with their positions.

benthinkin, Yes.

fldpan, I misspelled marijuana (marajuana), that's why the NIDA site came up first.

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=na...

B'moon went to UW.

thekid..., JohnDoe is not a stoner.

thats funny johndoe. i love the herb:)

I think he is saying the UW is lame.

Hey, wait a minute...
are you saying Dr. Phil is a lame@ss cause he is stoned,
or is stoned because he is a lame@ss???

Despite the fact that that quart of rum has been thoroughly processed, looking over these post here makes me conclude that my posts would get me some kind of degree from UW while all your posts would get you a room at Mendota.

look at all the posts on the pro-pot side and you on the anti-pot side. and im not making sense??

Doctor Phil would have to be stoned to say a lameass thing like that.

thekid...., you're stoned? I'm shocked, you seem to be making so much sense.

How ironic, the quart of rum I drank tonight has lost all its power and now I'm as sober as Jesus.

gfan, im high now, if i dont smoke again, and wreck my car at 4:00 tomorrow afternoon will i be high?? no. will i test positive?? i could not smoke for a year and id still test positive:) lol i really dont know why you continue to think im flip flopping. IF I DRIVE HIGH I WILL WRECK. IF I DRIVE SOBER I WILL TEST POSITIVE.

Hey gazettefan, ya know Dr. Phil would say that your talking to the drug, not the person...:)

Don't bogart that joint, my friend.

Willie Nelson wears a headband.

thekid...., make up your mind. First you concede a point and then you're back on square one.

flpfan, talk about blinders, I already addressed that one or two posts ago. I said to thekid...:

thekid..., we have a case in point here about clear thinking: It was you who made a point of how long THC stays in the system. You made this point for the purpose of claiming that the stats are scewed because maybe the stoner with THC in his system wasn't high when he caused a bad accident.
---------------
Now ask yourself, if a stoner causes a bad accident, isn't more likely he did so while he was high rather than not high?

u got me gazettefan. i do wear a headband. to hold my hippie hair out of my face at 6 in the morning just after my first meds of the day and just before an hour of yoga......sorry for bein a pothead....

gfan...personal experience? Or where are you coming up with this stuff?

ps-I don't wear a headband....

G-fan---Smoking pot has never made me want to drink too. Can you at least admit that it is all about the individual and being responsible, not the drug????

sry gazettefan, yer wrong. most potheads are content. its the alcohol that asks for more.....

Re: pot heads being drunks too. Be honest, when someone's high on pot they're very consumptive. They're ingest anything to keep that buzz going whether it be more pot, alcohol, or a bag of licorice being passed around in a circle of headband-wearing first-generaton and second-generation hippies.

if they drive high there will be more accidents. a positive test for marijauna does not mean one was high when they caused an accident. i dont know how this confuses you gazette fan. if they could test for alcohol for 30 days how many drivers would have alcohol in their system even if they hadnt seen it in days......its ok to admit yer wrong gazettefan....open your freakin mind.....

http://paranoia.lycaeum.org/marijuana/fa...
Great site, all should read..

ask yourself: if a drinder causes a bad accident, isn't more likely he did so while he was drunk rather than not drunk??

fldpan, read the first half of thekid...'s last post.

flpfan, talk about blinders, I already addressed that one or two posts ago. I said to thekid...:

thekid..., we have a case in point here about clear thinking: It was you who made a point of how long THC stays in the system. You made this point for the purpose of claiming that the stats are scewed because maybe the stoner with THC in his system wasn't high when he caused a bad accident.
---------------
Now ask yourself, if a stoner causes a bad accident, isn't more likely he did so while he was high rather than not high?

gazettefan. i pointed out that because they tested positive doesnt mean they were under the influence WHILE driving. but id be a fool not to agree with you that more accidents will happen when theyre high. but yer post about all potheads bein drunks too, shows me that yer debating this like a 12 year old, so im gonna take my reefer knowledge and go home.....

fldpan...., that wasn't the case when I Googled. I did see the NORML site later that says people shouldn't drive when they're high on pot. Is that the one you saw?

He always has...You just noticed?

dub..., again, I never made it a competition between pot and alcohol. As far as I'm concerned, most pot heads are probably drunks too. If you legalize pot, there'll be more pot heads and more pot heads who are drunk on the road. Get it?!

sjraleigh210, I hope the "period" on your computer keyboard gets fixed someday.

thekid..., we have a case in point here about clear thinking: It was you who made a point of how long THC stays in the system. You made this point for the purpose of claiming that the stats are scewed because maybe the stoner with THC in his system wasn't high when he caused a bad accident.

Thanks for trying to manage my time for me but I don't need the help.

Life aggravates the drunk driving problem.

duh of course the chances are more when a potheads high. the chances are greater when an alcoholic is drunk rite?? gazettefan what you really need to do is just go google the word 'marijuana'. dont post any more tonite. spend the rest of your evening readin about marijuana. and i KNOW youll read negatives about it. i KNOW youll read way more positives. and im not tryin to be a di*k here, but look at the sources for the negative ones. and look at the sources for the positive ones. any of you other stoners wanna guess who gazettefan will see is behind AN OVERWELMING MAJORITY of the negative websites??

dub..., the issue is that the legalization of pot will aggravate the drunk driving problem.

Ok, you two, settle down.

I'd like sources cited here.

Also, thekid..., THC detected in the system of a dangerous driver is an indicator regardless of THC's half-life. Think about it. Is a pot head more likely to cause a bad accident while high or while straight?

I'm an Eagle Scout and got an award for heroism. When my neighbor died I drove his elderly wife to the hospital and stayed with her. I can't speak for everybody but I think I am a fine citizen.

fldpan. brothers dont shake hands....brothers gotta hug.....:)

uggghhh i cant stop. ok gazettefan. i dont think theres a single pro-pot poster here who is for smoking and driving, although us smokers know;), but seriuosly 32% had marijauana in their system?? i have NO DOUBT, because about a third of america smokes, but gazettefan, yer a smart adult, do u know how long THC will test in yo system?? up to 30 days. so 32% of the drivers tested positive, that argument aint worth s**t cuz it proves NOTHING as far as how many were driving under the influence.....

crafty, cite your sources.

Also, the use of hemp and the use of THC are two different things.

gazettefan-The issue is not smoking and driving. I think most of us here have stated that pot must be used responsibly, just like alcohol. Do not drive. THe issue I have is the stereotype you have of pot-smokers. In a post you said "It also describes what kind of people are into pot. Sound familiar?" Again, who are you to judge? We could say the same thing about alcohol users. There are users and abusers. If you use responsibly (alcohol or pot) what is the problem? Please--don't judge me. If you ever met me on the street you would never guess I smoke 2-3 times/week. My spouse has a few beers, I have a few hits. Just to relax. Please tell me what the difference is and why you have the right to judge every single pot user and say we are losers????? Would you like me to name more professions of pot-smokers I know? not potheads, but pot-smokers. I'm sure nothing we say will change your mind, but think about it. Again, I am an excellent employee, involved in my kids school and activities, educated, middle class, normal, everyday kind of person.

In September of 1937, hemp became illegal. The most useful crop known became a drug and our planet has been suffering ever since.
Today, our planet is in desperate trouble. Earth is suffocating as large tracts of rain forests disappear. Pollution, poisons and chemicals are killing people. These great problems could be reversed if we industrialized hemp. Natural biomass could provide all of the planet's energy needs that are currently supplied by fossil fuels. We have consumed 80% of our oil and gas reserves. We need a renewable resource. Hemp could be the solution to soaring gas prices.
The brainwashing continues. Now, the commercials say: If you buy a joint, you contribute to murders and gang wars. The latest anti-pot commercials say: If you buy a joint...you are promoting TERRORISM! The new enemy (terrorism) has paved the road to brainwash you any way THEY see fit.

Here's another site that says being on pot makes for a dangerous driver.

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/pot/f/mjk...

Where is the study that states many or most pot heads are fine upstanding citizens?

THE CONSPIRACY

Andrew Mellon became Hoover's Secretary of the Treasury and Dupont's primary investor. He appointed his future nephew-in-law, Harry J. Anslinger, to head the Federal Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs.

Secret meetings were held by these financial tycoons. Hemp was declared dangerous and a threat to their billion dollar enterprises. For their dynasties to remain intact, hemp had to go. These men took an obscure Mexican slang word: 'marihuana' and pushed it into the consciousness of America.

In the 1930s, innovations in farm machinery would have caused an industrial revolution when applied to hemp. This single resource could have created millions of new jobs generating thousands of quality products. Hemp, if not made illegal, would have brought America out of the Great Depression.

William Randolph Hearst (Citizen Kane) and the Hearst Paper Manufacturing Division of Kimberly Clark owned vast acreage of timberlands. The Hearst Company supplied most paper products. Patty Hearst's grandfather, a destroyer of nature for his own personal profit, stood to lose billions because of hemp.

In 1937, Dupont patented the processes to make plastics from oil and coal. Dupont's Annual Report urged stockholders to invest in its new petrochemical division. Synthetics such as plastics, cellophane, celluloid, methanol, nylon, rayon, Dacron, etc., could now be made from oil. Natural hemp industrialization would have ruined over 80% of Dupont's business.

Below is the very first paragraph of the very first site of the search -a NIDA study. Below the paragraph is the NIDA site hypertext:

"DRIVING AND MARIJUANA DO NO MIX; THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE," SAID DR. STEPHEN J. HEISHMAN, A REARCH PSYCHOLOGIST IN THE CLINICAL PHARMACOLOGY BRANCH OF NIDA'S DIVISION OF INTRAMURAL RESEARCH"

"Driving and marijuana do not mix; that's the bottom line," said Dr. Stephen J. Heishman, a research psychologist in the Clinical Pharmacology Branch of NIDA's Division of Intramural Research. Figures from previous studies of automobile accident victims show that from 6 to 12 percent of nonfatally injured drivers and 4 to 16 percent of fatally injured drivers had tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, in their bloodstream, Dr. Heishman said. One study showed that 32 percent of drivers in a shock trauma unit in Baltimore had marijuana in their bloodstream, he noted. However, in most of these studies, the majority of subjects who tested positive for THC also tested positive for alcohol, making it difficult to single out THC's effect on driving.

http://209.85.207.104/search?q=cache:aOh......

sorry, after chattin with mother nature i decided on another post. ive got more if anyone wants to email me, but this is my favorite....

My name is Uncle Sam,
And there's no need to fight.
Regardless of what you think,
I am always right.
I will raise your taxes,
And maybe raise them some more.
I will probably give myself a raise,
Like the year just before.
You voted pot as medicine,
How can that be??
Your vote aint worth s**t,
When you're talkin to me.
At 21 my alcohol will murder,
At 18 my tobacco kills.
If your kid wakes up pi**ed,
Just give him these pills.
I am Ucle Sam,
My system will not fail.
But if you smoke that plant,
Im gonna throw your a$$ in jail.

good post lund:) last one then i gotta hang out with mother natures finer herbs:) if i discovered marijuana/cannabis/hemp today and came to the american public with proof and said 'look people, i have a plant that we can make fuel out of. or we can make food and feed the starving. we can make clothing/paper out of it. stop cutting trees. you dont need to fertilize cotton, this is technically a weed and it grows anywhere!! and you can smoke it recreationally, and you stay in better control of yourself than with alcohol, with no hangover and the only real affect from good stuff is you get 'high', or if you smoke bad stuff you may get a headache, what do you think mr public?? wanna try??' uncle sam would be all over it and id probably win the nobel peace prize.......

That's what I thought Newbie. Is there ANYONE here who has a first hand experience where marijuana has hurt someone? I don't mean legally...

benthinkin yer rite one is illegal and one is legal. there was a day when they were reversed. anyone who TRULY wants to know why marijauna is illegal just google 'henry anslinger marijuana' and read for hours about the political grandstanding of anslinger after he lost the fight against alcohol. google 'william randolph hearst marijuana' and read about how his papers printed all the 'reefer madness' stories. yes im a hippie pothead but there was a conspiracy. when congress asked the committee in 1937 what the American Medical Association had to say, they actually said they need more research, the committee lied and said they were all for the marijuana tax stamp. im not historically knowledgeable enough to make this crap up. uuughhhhh. KEEP YOUR MINDS OPEN TO A POSSIBILITY OF A REALITY OTHER THAN WHAT YOUVE BEEN TOLD.....

Gazettefan- I just read that NIDA link. It doesn't make sense. It states that most of the people used alcohol as well. So how are you to know that the results of the study are based on the alcohol use or the pot use? That study does not say what kind of people are into pot. How are they, or you for that matter, to know what kind of people are into pot? Did you catch my previous post? I personally know many people who smoke pot. 95% of which are honest, hard-working responsible people. Mothers, fathers, grandparents, Gm workers, IL state judges, teachers, accountants, stock brokers, successful business owners....You would never ever guess that these were pot smokers. Pot does not make you a loser or a poor employee. That is all up to the individual. I have never been fired or reprimanded at any job, I have a college degree, have children and family who love me. I am not trashy, poor, or a LOSER. Please do not judge people or judge substances that you know nothing about. Pot is not man-made, its not like crack, cocaine, alcohol, acid...It is calming and helps you to feel better and relax. It needs to be used responsibly, just like alcohol. No driving, working, etc. It is common sense. Like I said it is the individual that is to blame, not the drug.

you can smoke in small doses. i get fried once in a while, but i catch a buzz 2-3 times a day. just like theres a diff between 3 beers and 8 beers. or a diff between 2 shots and 6 shots. its moderation. im not being honest?? again, YOU DONT KNOW ME. email me and lets chat. ill come shake yo hand and have the same convo in person. ill have the same convo with pigbrains or officerfriendly. they cant arrest me for knowing what i know. its not illegal to educate. EVERYONE IN MY LIFE KNOWS WHAT I DO. i tell everyone because i believe the biggest hurdle for legalization/de-criminalization isnt the anti-pot people, but the pot smokers who are convinced they are doing something wrong and dont talk about it. or hide it. my boss does know that i smoke, and hes for legalization because the law in his words 'is ridiculous'. and again, why would he care what i do at home?? i make him more money than anyone else at my job. seriously. the parents care if i coach their kids team and get high when im home?? what do i care?? i dont care if they get drunk at home. half them prolly smoke when theyre home too. plus i dont see many other parents lining up to volunteer to coach, so let them judge. im not sure if i was tokin on which posts. youd have to check the time:) but thanx for the props. im omitting the negatives?? again, come meet me and please point out these negatives. cuz i dont see em. yer just assuming there are negatives cuz thats what youve been told. in the time its taken me to write this any guesses how many people have died from legal alcohol or tobacco?? more than have ever died from direct use of marijuana. is marijuana perfect?? no, its REAL CLOSE TO A PERFECT DRUG FOR ME, but im aware individuals are dift. thats why i dont drink. but i am a repsonsible marijuana smoker. and ulitimately my point remains, as long as uncle sam allows me the option to intoxicate myself with alcohol, EVEN AFTER 3 DRUNK DRIVING ARRESTS, then i as a responsible tax paying ADULT citizen of this free country should have the option to smoke a joint. unless youve smoked or know someone who has smoked marijuana on a regular or semi-regular basis you just wont understand. used responsible(like alcohol) its harmless.....

If pot were legal, this would be a different discussion.
Drinking alcohol is legal if old enough...
Drinking and driving if over the limit is illegal.
Posessing, or using pot is illegal.
The issue is that the law is being broken...
So, comparing drinking to pot is not a good comparison because one is legal and one is not.
Comparing drinking while driving to using pot is similar as both are illegal.

sjraliegh, you're not getting it. I was responding to the claims here that pot heads don't drink and that smoking pot didn't contribute to driving problems. The study shows that smoking pot doesn't exclude getting drunk and consequent driving problems. Pot is not the innocent, benevolent drug that some people are trying to claim here. Read the study.

The scientist said: "...making it difficult to single out THC's effect on driving." Since an isolated study wasn't done, his ethics didn't allow him to say for sure. But he didn't deny the possibility. Read the study.

If you can come away from that study not believing that pot is a driving problem, then your judgement is impaired.

I should have said sooner that you're right about cell phones. There, does that make you happy?! Why don't you post the "Arizona" study here, sounds interesting. More than pot and booze?!!!

Yes,fldpan, I read it and I didn't edit it. But you, in effect, edited it my missing the point. It said the "majority", meaning some of those cases didn't involve alcohol.

And it's clear that getting high on pot effects judgement to the point that the entire experience includes getting drunk on alcohol and then hitting road. If you want to argue that alcoholic intoxication causes pot smoking, go ahead. I'd like to read that one too among all the other crap I've been reading here. I'm not defending drunk driving. The fact that pot heads drive while high on pot and drunk on alcohol is your burden, not mine.

Read the whole site page. It reveals what pot use does to people and therefore infers that it produces dangerous drivers. It also describes what kind of people are into pot. Sound familiar?

Crafty:
Neither my, nor your, personal experiences are all encompassing. Personal anecdotes are too limited to base an opinion on. Besides, I do not relate personal information on these posts.

No newbie, you did not answer my question. I'll ask again. Has marijuana ever hurt you, or anyone you know?

I appreciate everyone trying to state their case here. And I wanted to avoid studies and web sites because it seems this is a clear-cut of issue of: pot and activities like driving not going together. To deal with all the claims and citations here I Googled these two words together: "marijuana driving."

Below is the very first paragraph of the very first site of the search -a NIDA study. Below the paragraph is the NIDA site hypertext:

"Driving and marijuana do not mix; that's the bottom line," said Dr. Stephen J. Heishman, a research psychologist in the Clinical Pharmacology Branch of NIDA's Division of Intramural Research. Figures from previous studies of automobile accident victims show that from 6 to 12 percent of nonfatally injured drivers and 4 to 16 percent of fatally injured drivers had tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, in their bloodstream, Dr. Heishman said. One study showed that 32 percent of drivers in a shock trauma unit in Baltimore had marijuana in their bloodstream, he noted. However, in most of these studies, the majority of subjects who tested positive for THC also tested positive for alcohol, making it difficult to single out THC's effect on driving.

http://209.85.207.104/search?q=cache:aOh...

crafty:
I did answer, you just don't like what I said. The only public opinion polls that matter are on election days. The effects of your favorite substance abuse are well known. It looks to me that you may have adopted the same opinion about people who don't think marijuana should be legalized as Ashley Roachclip.

I was raised and taught that smoking pot was bad for you, according to the dare program. However, as I got older learning about different cultures and the dynamics of how drugs can produce further illegal activities to obtain them, I actually agree that pot should not be illegal. Im not a stoner, nor do I use illegal drugs but seeing how pot has been around for many years and even used in some rituals.. and those people were relatively peaceful people. You didnt see them harboring guns and weapons attacking and killing for it. I think making something illegal that has been proven to be better than smoking cigarettes is a joke to me. We can kill people with cigarettes but smoking pot is sooo much worse? Give me a break. If it is given to help peoples lives selectively then why is it so bad for everyone else?
Im not trying to be insensitive to the fact that some people are ill who use it legally. I am just saying if its used to help people who are sick how can it really be that harmful in smaller amounts to people who arent? I think it would be a profitable industry and great revenue for farmers as well if it was made legal. Think about our country. Things are so expensive as it is.

Here's another one:

ScienceDaily (Mar. 29, 1999) — The safety hazards of smoking marijuana and driving are overrated, says University of Toronto researcher Alison Smiley.
Recent research into impairment and traffic accident reports from several countries shows that marijuana taken alone in moderate amounts does not significantly increase a driver's risk of causing an accident -- unlike alcohol, says Smiley, an adjunct professor in the department of mechanical and industrial engineering. While smoking marijuana does impair driving ability, it does not share alcohol's effect on judgment. Drivers on marijuana remain aware of their impairment, prompting them to slow down and drive more cautiously to compensate, she says.

"Both substances impair performance," Smiley says. "However, the more cautious behaviour of subjects who received marijuana decreases the drug's impact on performance. Their behaviour is more appropriate to their impairment, whereas subjects who received alcohol tend to drive in a more risky manner."

Smiley, who has studied transportation safety for over 25 years, drew her results from a "metanalysis" of existing research into the effects of marijuana on driving ability, combined with traffic accident statistics in the United States and Australia. Previous studies showing stronger effects often combined "fairly hefty doses" by researchers with driving immediately after consumption, likely exaggerating the drug's effects, she believes.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/199...

Did HockeyJockey just say Snickers?

Where is there proof of Marijuana hindering a person's driving abilities?
-
Billnewbie, you know what kind of poll I am talking about. A poll asking: Do you, or don't you smoke Marijuana? Do you, or don't you believe marijuana should be legal? I don't know where your facts are coning from, but there are felons who can vote. No stereotypes? What about, lazy and unambitious? Do you have first hand knowledge of anything you are arguing against? I unlike you, am not here to argue. Sorry to rain on your parade. I am here to put in my opinion and try to educate.

I asked you a question. Why didn't you answer?
-
Gazettefan, your ASSumptions are all wrong. "Blasted" on weed? That's funny, and no you are not right.
It's weird that you are all so concerned with how pot is so bad. Travel the world a little. Quit being so close minded.

thekid3477:
I do not know all the details of your life. You relate the good points and omit the rest. I believe you deceive yourself. Would your employer be understanding of you compulsion? I suspect they do not know, so you probably deceive them as well. Do the other kids' parents on you team know of your habit? I suspect not, so you probably deceive them as well. These sound like debilitating effects to me as they prevent you from living an honest life. As far as staying out of jail, you risk that every time you make a buy.

crafty, glad to see my message about proper substance and dosage got across.

It's my impression with pot smoking that stoners just automatically get blasted and don't just have a little. Am I right?

The guy doesn't look like a stoner to me. (snicker)

thekid..., that long post you recently wrote wasn't badly written. But if you wrote it while high on weed, you'd would have said so.

Write a post that long while you're as blasted on weed as you usually get.

Hey, Willie Nelson, the 1960s called: they want their headband back!!!

I think if people find the right weed (there are many varieties) and the proper amounts they should be able to "learn to smoke". Mytake4u please hop on board!

Apparently some missed the point when I mentioned Willie Nelson. I don't hold him up as a poster child for MJ.
llund22 is right when he says that people from all walks of life partake. Stereotyping is preferred by some who don't want to admit the prevalence of personal use including by the esteemed professionals and upstanding citizens.
.
I simply pointed out the hypocrisy of that situation, and there is no reason to believe anything is different today.

the kid---THanks for sticking up for all of us that are in love with it too. You others do not realize who smokes. I know doctors, investment bankers, teachers, GM workers, principals, mothers, grandfathers, nurses, stock brokers, veterinarians, people who run very very successful businesses....All who smoke marijuana. All very responsible, tax paying, well educated people. It all depends on the person, losers are losers whether they have pot or not.
And, I LOVE Willie Nelson's braids.

i relocated my life and career to be close to my kids. i have my kids 50% of the time and still manage to fork over a good chunk in child support. my ex wife will tell you i am a model father and my kids adore me. i coach my kids baseball. i am consistetly the top performer at my job. i have not been late nor sick to work since i quit drinking. my boss will tell you im a model employee. i do yoga twice a week. i rollerblade twice a week when weather allows. im in better shape than when i graduated over a decade ago. i have not been arrested since i quit drinkin and consequently not spent a nite in jail. i dont intoxicate myself twice a day. i medicate myself twice a day. am i obsessed with marijuana and educating people about the realitys of it. absolutely. please though billnewbie, tell what part of my lifestyle and admitted obsession sounds 'debilitating' to you??

thekid3477:
You've traded one debilitating obsession for another. You have ignored the lessons of your experience with alcohol. Intoxication has nearly ruined your life, and rather than rejecting it, you've moved on to a different intoxicant instead, rationalizing your choice to continue intoxicating yourself by saying it has no bad effects and that it's better than booze. You demand that I and others accept the proposition that pot is harmless. Intoxicating yourself twice a day is not harmless. I do not know what harm it causes you, but I know that you lie to yourself when you claim it does you no harm. I urge you to stop deceiving yourself.. Intoxicants are poison to you, not a salvation.

the film reefer madness was from 60 years ago, but make no mistake uncle sam still spews reefer madness daily. you have absolutely no idea who i am or where i come from and yet you said i should learn to drink because 'Eventually you'll discover the joy of firewater and leave the stink weed behind' no offense, but thats the most ignorant thing ive heard in years. have you read any of my posts?? 12 arrests including 3 drunk drivings while i tried to 'learn how to drink'. 12 years. one marriage. dont you understand that some people CANT learn to drink?? for almost 3 years now i have not touched alcohol. i have not touched tobacco. yet ive smoked pot on average probably 2 times a day since then WITHOUT A SINGLE NEGATIVE EFFECT. billnewbie yer going to tell me i dont make an 'intelligible argument'?? I AM A WALKING 'INTELLIGIBLE ARGUMENT'. from my perspective you anti-pot people have no argument. if yer biggest argument against pot is more 'stoned drivers' then we should stop debating why pot is illegal and if it should or should not remain so, we should start debating why alcohol is legal. cuz we all know the damage that does on our roads every year. thousands of senseless deaths. how many of you anti-pot people know someone who's died on the road because of alcohol?? yet how many people do u know that still have 'just a few' and drive. im not sure what you got against willie. i bet if you check his tour schedule and albums over the years youll figure yout hes prolly not a 'lazy pothead'. so the guy didnt pay some taxes. neither did wesley snipes. is that because he's black?? or an actor?? or because HE thought he could screw uncle sam. as for willies personal grooming, his beard is always trim, and he wears some real nice braids. when was the last time you met with him?? cuz im sure you wouldnt simply be judging. look people, im in love with marijuana. i really truly believe medically and recreationally it saved my life and helped make me the man i am today. i KNOW its not a perfect drug, close, but i know people will make bad choices when high on pot. but my point remains that as long as uncle sam allows society to intoxicate itself on a man made poison, withoug a doubt as a responsible tax paying adult in these beautiful united states, i should have the rite to chose marijuana.

crafty:
They take a poll every election day. On those days, you and your majority, if it exists, are free to vote (provided you are not convicted felons or lost in an intoxicant induced amnesia) for like-minded candidates who can work for the prevalence of your opinion. If you don't see any on the ballot, perhaps that is because your cause is less than popular with the voting majority whom the candidates tend to try to appeal to, since they are the ones who elect candidates to public office. Be annoyed all you like. I don't believe I offered any stereotypes other than that people who use controlled substances without a prescription are criminals and that they suffer the effects of prolonged use of said substances such as an inability to formulate an intelligible argument.

Hey, crafty and thekid..., either of you guys want to claim mytake4u as a fellow travelor?!

wow!!! what a rat this lennox guy must be. big tattle tale. he should be soooo ashamed of hisself! i bet he will not be able to score even a joint in rock county, and rightly so. anyone who rats out people for marijuana are low life scum!!! i'll take a pot smoker ANY day over a juice head alky!!! LEARN TO DRINK???? maybe you should suggest that as a course in the janesville school system......WOW!!!

crafty, the medical benefits of pot shouldn't be ignored. But those benefits have nothing to do with a law that would put more pot heads behind the wheel.

thekid...., do I really have to explain this? The government "reefer madness" thing was from over 60 years ago. Today's research is right-on.

And I didn't say the downsides of alcohol are OK. By the way, there is such a thing as "learning how to drink". If you're getting hangovers and what ever, you need to find the right beverage and learn your particular rate of dosage. Eventually you'll discover the joy of firewater and leave the stink weed behind.

As for the benefits of hemp, that's another matter. I'd like to believe it, but on the other hand this capitalist society is so competitive that it's hard to believe that the riches that a market for hemp can produce is being left behind.

(As for trees, there are more trees now than there were a hundred years ago!)

The war on drugs: You do your cause harm by lumping pot in with the other stuff.

As for who smokes pot: Why is it that the most prominent pot head we know of is Willie Nelson -a man with respondsilbity problems and grooming problems?

The larger impact on society is an important factor. After legalization, the expanded behavior of pot heads won't displace an equal number of drinkers. Instead there'll be a greater increase in substance abuse problems.

All those downsides I mentioned have to do with individuals, individuals make up society -you have no point there.

Addition to the downsides list: pantheism.

Billnewbie, I'm sure you'd be surprised who the majority really is. You have to expect that not all pot smokers are going to admit to it. It's not like there was a poll anyway. There's a lot of people in this country who don't even smoke pot, but want it legalized. People who have seen first hand what it can do to help people who have diseases like, Alzheimer's, All forms of Cancer and Chemotherapy, Cataracts, Glaucoma, Hypertension, M.S., Parkinson's, Schizophrenia, Epilepsy, and many more. It can help you mentally as well.
Don't forget all the money wasted since the prohibition started. There is more pot around now than ever.
I believe it is you sir, who is "disingenuous and self-serving" I'd bet you don't smoke pot. Has it ever harmed you or anyone you know? Your stereotypes are annoying.
_
Pigbrain, you sure got lucky to be better than those greasy pot peddlers. If pot were legal they wouldn't be selling it, and they would STILL be losers. No matter where you go there are going to be stupid people, there will always be "losers".
-
Thekid, I agree with everything you have said. Keep it up.

>>>>
TO EVERYONE: Take pot out of the whole picture. What would be different?

yo gazettefan you cant agree that the current reefer madness desciption of pot is ridiculous and then say the govt's data is correct. where do u think the reefer madness comes from?? and i will never deny that there will be limited downsides for the individual, but again, the downsides for alcohol are ok?? to answer your question about the larger impact on society....well lets see. industrial hemp would give us another source for biofuel. save the corn. another source for paper(stop cutting trees). more thorough medical research. cannabanoids may halt the spread of breast cancer
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200...
may help stave off alzheimers
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15145917/
tax revenue. millions collected instead of millions spent fighting the 'war' on drugs. less jail overcrowding. less senseless murders, take out the profit you take out the motive. there are millions of repsonsible pot smokers out there. uncle sam can stop arresting them and ruining their lives FOR SMOKING A PLANT. gazettefan, seriously, what do you think the larger impact on society will be?? and be for real, dont give me this crumbs in sgt peppers beard or whatever. dont give me obesity or loss of interest in 'great literature'. give me the impact on society, not the individual??

casey, I have no problem with agreeing with you that the "reefer madness" description of pot is ridiculous.

Current government studies give an accurate description of the downsides of pot smoking -especially impaired judgment while driving. I can't understand why even a pot smoker would deny the downsides. I don't deny the downsides of drinking alcohol.

It's a question of: What would be the larger impact on society if pot were legalized?

Gazettefan if you would do a little research it's not hard to find the sources for my claim. In fact I got a lot of my info from The History Channel. You can check out this website about HARRY J. ANSLINGER who was responsible for outlawing Hemp. http://www.heartbone.com/no_thugs/hja.ht...
You may also be interested to know that I am a fifty year old who is married to the same woman for over twenty years. I have three grown kids and I have worked since I was ten years old.
There is plenty of info out there on the internet to read Perhaps if you do so you will find that the goverment MADE IT ALL UP!

Ha Ha Ha!!
Chuck Norris doesn't sleep...he waits!!!

why does everyone want weed legal? that is stupid. it wouldn't be as good. I heard the medical marijuana wouldn't even get the average stoner stoned, thats government issued weed. there weed isn't as good. not only that if your a stoner why would you want the government to control it. they should just quit arresting people fot it. other cities are making strides to reduce the penalty for possession of marijuana. thats fine, but don't let the government control it. they already control everything else.

Yes, Willie Nelson's tax problems and grooming problems and his dependency on the demon-weed problems are only coincidences.

The buzz from pot is one thing, the toxicity of pot fumes is another. Pot will have the same status as tobacco (if legalized). You'll be able to stone-out at home with the cookies, doritos, and expanded basic. You will not smoke in bars or The Kid's House of Hemp. There'll be a White Castle in Janesville before a The Kid's House of Hemp.

also just so you know if its ever LEGAL it will be allowed in bars. just like alcohol is legal and can be consumed in bars someone will make a buck or two by opening up a hemp bar. fo sho. and when that HAPPENS and yer driving down milton ave dont be surprised to see the big green sign that says 'TheKids House of Hemp':)

gazettefan. willie nelson is a successful singer song writer. if hes not gonna pay taxes hes not gonna pay taxes whether he smokes pot or not. you people gotta stop blaming pot, and start blaming the individual. yer gonna throw him under the bus for how he dresses?? ridiculous. its NOT a contest of pot vs alcohol, because if it was, pot would win. ITS ALL ABOUT HYPOCRISY. IF YOU AS A RESPONSIBLE TAX PAYING ADULT CITIZEN OF THESE UNITED STATES HAVE A RIGHT TO CHOSE TO CONSUME AN ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE THEN WITHOUT A FREAKIN DOUBT, I SHOULD BE ABLE TO CHOSE TO CONSUME CANNABIS.

spacedout, the research on stoner driving doesn't help your cause. Don't know why you brought that up.

I don't think the "something forbidden idea" works with this. If you legalize it, more people will do it.

Again, it's not a contest between alcohol and pot. It's a matter of putting more people on the road under some kind of influence.

parkergrad, no, toking the demon weed wouldn't be allowed in bars. As a matter of fact, if it is ever legalized, smoking pot at home will only be permitted.

casey, yes, the goverment made it all up, the man is out to get me!!!

I like the example offered of a prominent pot head: Willie Nelson. Here is a guy too lazy or irresponsible or forgetful to pay his taxes and with a severe grooming problem to boot.

Think about it:

Willie Nelson's grooming problem and smoking pot. The two go together nicely.

I think we are splitting hairs here. Both drugs affect driving skills. But I doubt legalizing cannabis is going to change the percent of drivers being under the influence. I looked at the website and noticed that is put out by the U S goverment. The problem there is that nearly all the facts that most people know about cannabis were simply made up by the U S goverment. Yes thats right, MADE UP!

I'm not advocating driving on any drugs, but I want people to have the facts. Alcohol is much more dangerous than marijuana when it comes to driving.

Benthinkin - As with most things you can find research that will make either side of a topic look good. If you search google you will find more than one source stating you are wrong, Marijuana isn't that big of factor when it comes to driving. here's a Video of one test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3zou4F00...

http://www.nida.nih.gov/NIDA_Notes/NNVol...

spacedout, here's a little reading material for you...

I have to laugh at all of these comments when I think back on the height of hypocrisy.
.
When Willie Nelson appeared at the Rock County 4-H Fair, the Rock County Deputies would joke about keeping the drug dogs away from his bus so the show could go on.
At the front door they were ignoring the second hand smoke (wink, wink) wafting from the bus, but at the back door they were lining up for his autograph.
.
When all of the self-righteous people, 4-H fair board, police, community leaders, etc., speak out of both sides of their mouths',what does everyone really expect?
.
Can everyone say "Two Faced."

the kid, you are my hero

gazettefan: If they make pot legal in the US (it is "ignored" here where I live in amounts small enough for personal use), does that mean you will have to fight for no pot smoking in public places and bars as well? <(*_*)>

From L.E.A.P.'s website:
COPS SAY LEGALIZE DRUGS!

After nearly four decades of fueling the U.S. policy of a war on drugs with over a trillion tax dollars and 37 million arrests for nonviolent drug offenses, our confined population has quadrupled making building prisons the fastest growing industry in the United States. More than 2.2 million of our citizens are currently incarcerated and every year we arrest an additional 1.9 million more guaranteeing those prisons will be bursting at their seams. Every year we choose to continue this war will cost U.S. taxpayers another 69 billion dollars. Despite all the lives we have destroyed and all the money so ill spent, today illicit drugs are cheaper, more potent, and far easier to get than they were 35 years ago at the beginning of the war on drugs. Meanwhile, people continue dying in our streets while drug barons and terrorists continue to grow richer than ever before. We would suggest that this scenario must be the very definition of a failed public policy. This madness must cease!

officerfriendly yer a genius. are you a member of L.E.A.P?? Law Enforcement Against Prohibition??

casey you are exactly right. That was the point I was trying to make earlier that gazettefan couldn't figure out. It's the forbidden fruit. Tell someone(especially kids) they can't do something they are more likely to try it. Would marijuana usage increase if it were legal? Maybe not. I'm sure all of you giving reasons why it should remain illegal wouldn't try it, right? I probably wouldn't either but I do believe people should have the right to use it if they wish. As a matter of fact I believe people should have the right to put whatever they want into their bodies as long as it doesn't harm someone else. Alcohol clearly harms more people than any other drug.

Gazettefan - You need to do a Google search for "driving stoned", there have been numerous studies done that indicate stoned drivers are actually better drivers than sober drivers.

Every time you cannot have something than you want it more. Cannabis is no different. I think it should be legal. I think I should be able to grow it in my garden if I so wish. I think I should be able to smoke it in my home or yard. I don't think I should be able to drive while under it's influence. Does it make people become lazy or losers? They probably were already. I know a lot of lazy people who don't smoke weed. I do know that I have never heard about anybody getting stoned and then beating the hell out of their wives and or kids. I have never heard of anybody overdosing from it. I also know that whatever I say most of you have already made up your minds.

vote for B'moon, nice one! LMAO

lack of concentration

hold your breath...ill AGREE;) that there may be more driving problems. BUT again, if you can legally chose to drink then illegally chose to drive, i should have the choice to legally smoke and illegally drive. as for the rest of your list. thanx for proving my point. most of the percieved 'downsides' are laughable and not true. negative infuence on kids?? like alcohol isnt a negative?? hypocrisy. 'loss of interest in great literature' that MAY be a downside to THE INDIVIDUAL usage, not legalization. pour judgement?? ask any regular pot smoker if judgement is better w/alcohol or pot. uuuggggghhhh every morning i wake i believe more and more in what im doing. almost 3 years now with just pot, no alcohol, no tobacco, no caffiene, no aspirin, no prescriptions and NOT A SINGLE NEGATIVE. keep your mind open to the possibility of a reality other than what youve been TOLD. for now, im out of this chat......

thekid...., legalizing pot will increase problems like drunk driving, or stoned driving, it's not like it's all going to even out.

Downsides:
cookie crumbs in Sgt Pepper style moustash
bogarting snacks
obesity
burn holes in t-shirt
forgetfulness
lack of concentration
carrying smell of pot smoke on clothes
poor judgement
negative influence on children
loss of interest in great literature
thinking the man is out to get you
voting for B'moon

gazettefan: for the sake of argument ill agree the complaints against alcohol apply to pot. why can you chose one and i cant chose the other?? and PLEASE....ill debate this forever, PLEASE list a couple of these other 'downsides'.....

and haaseman27: do u think gangbangers shoot each other over their 40 ouncers very often?? if its legal and they can buy it at the grocery store LIKE ALCOHOL, theres no profit and no motive for murder....

thekid..., the point is: the complaints about alcohol apply to pot. Legalize pot and you'll have more crazy drivers on the road than you do now. Add all the other downsides of pot smoking and there's no good argument for legalizing it.

Just legalizing weed would not stop shootings. If its worth money, and people that are not controlled are allowed to sell it on the streets people will still die from it.

I remember that. Good post.

perfect point haaseman27. people do shoot each other over drugs. al capone use to murder for alcohol. legalize weed and the shootings will drop. you CANT deny that. gazettefan im not advocating smoking and driving. seriously do you want me to do a search for stories on alcohol?? you know the results of that search. I ADVOCATE TO STOP ARRESTING RESPONSIBLE MARIJUANA SMOKING ADULTS.

http://gazettextra.com/news/2007/oct/05/...

Here's a Gazette story about a bunch of pot heads. How many times was it a human that was hit and not a mailbox, and no one was caught?

Consider the thought processes at the scene as each stoner gets arrested.

my only point is hypocrisy here people. i KNOW there are a lot of responsible drinkers. the way its meant to be. but there are also UNDENIABLY a lot of alcohol related deaths. im not asking to consider alcohol prohition. i believe you as a responsible tax paying adult citizen in this 'free' country should have the option to drink if you want. but if thats the case, then i as a responsible tax paying citizen should have the option to smoke. i KNOW its currently illegal to possess, my opinion aside, its illegal. remember a thing called alcohol prohibition?? were those laws rite?? were any of you around in 1937 when they passed the marijuana tax act?? no. neither was i. so u cant say that these laws arent based on misinformation. just because the gov't says, doesnt make it so. we have a black man and woman running for president because people refused to accept things as they were. pigbrain these kids may be losers, in your line of work you prolly see it more and are a more than capable judge. you also have to use a rational adult thinkin cap and realize that if weed was legal or de-criminalized there is no reason for these 'losers' to sell that quantity and they would STILL find a way to be losers. theres also no reason to waste your time arresting them. as you can tell IT IS personal for me. its ignorance and hypocrisy people. im not the criminal....

Hey "thekid". You say pot has never killed anyone? Are you sure about that? That is the biggest wise tale I have ever heard. I am sure you also think that you are just fine behind the wheel when you are stoned. Glad that I put my life at risk when people feel the need to smoke weed and then hop in the car.I am sure your next comment is " I smoke from the comfort of my home" Sure. You don't think that anywhere in the world that somebody has died as a result of pot? Are you serious? I bet somebody dies everyday somewhere because of pot. People shoot each other for drugs? Do you live under a rock? Think about how many people possibly died or their lives were ruined next time you light up.

Some pot is so strong it causes paranoid hallucinations.

sjraleigh210
So you're saying the JPD has "would confiscated the weed" (?), and sold it to someone else, and this has happened more than once? Wow, you really have a federal case on your hands. That's also the reason JPD may not have arrested the other "indivaual". You know moonshiners, too? You've really been around. Keep going, this is more fun than watching my dog decide what to do after he finally catches his tail.

It's possible to fake dignity under the influence of alcohol; try it while smoking the demon weed, especially with all those burn holes in your t-shirt!

More people would be smoking pot with cigarettes and with drinking and with driving and with more than 10 items at the checkout counter!!! It's endless!!!

What.....???!!!!

Would more people smoke it if it were legal? I'm not sure. Would more kids smoke cigarettes if it were legal? Would more kids drink alcohol if it were legal? Maybe it would be less consumption.

Also, the fighting would end because nobody would remember what all the fightin' was for.

Nobody would be in danger on the roads because the average speed limit would be 6mph.

By the time it's legal, you'll be too old to care about it. Your main concern will be choosing between the Craftmatic adjustable bed and the walk-in bathtub.

What may be overlooked is:

If the impact of pot on society isn't so bad now, that might not be the case if it's legal e.g. more stoner driving, more stoner use of heavy machinery, more stoner drinking in bars etc.

Sounds good to me... Now where did I put those Doritos?

Rather than violent, we can be lazy, unambitious and hungry.

Give'em heck kid! Marijuana will be legal someday just like alcohol is now. And when that happens we won't see anywhere near the problems with pot as we currently do with alcohol. Everyone talks about ways to make the world less violent? Maybe it should be mandatory for people to smoke weed!

His claim of "personal use" for eight pounds of pot might have worked if the police had also found eight pounds of cookies.

thekid3477:
Your government, and mine, has decided that possession of controlled substances without a prescription is a criminal offense, whether you intend to eat it, dissolve it in a beverage and drink it, stuff it in a pipe and smoke it, whether you inhale or not. The government has the authority to decide this, and it has authority over you and me whether we agree or not, and it has the authority to enforce its regulations, whether we like it or not. If you decide to disregard these criminal regulations, that makes you a criminal. Yes, your point about alcohol is valid, but the government has not decided to criminalize possession of alcoholic beverages by everyone and that is the difference.

We believe that the U.S. has declared homicidal war on itself because we over-focus on the act of homicide. In fact, only a sliver of one percent of all humans are murderers.

Similarly, we overfocus on the tragedies caused by drunk drivers and other violent acts commited by people when they're drunk. These acts represent only a small portion of how people generally behave while under the influence of alcohol.

Alcohol is a narcotic whose effects and dosages are easily managable and whose effects greatly contribute to the pleasure of social gathterings -that's why it's legal -it has stood the test of time compared to all other drugs.

Stop the alcohol bashing, stop trying to distort what alcohol actually is.

No, I don't drink, kid. I also agree with you that alcohol is terrible, it's responsible for most of my work.
The topic here however is weed, and I don't want to debate the legalization of pot, I'm a law enforcement officer, not a lawmaker.

And yes, I do believe these guys are losers. I don't think I'm better, I just play for the other team, the 'not losers'.

They sell dope. Are they the worst guys in town? Nope, but they still sell dope. I can't find an ounce(pun?) of respect for them. Would you like to inform me of my error in their character assessment?

Bob Dylan was awarded the Pulitzer Prize a few weeks ago. He got the news in the jingle-jangle morning.

"greasy"! thats hilarious.

pretty sure that using pot doesn't make you a loser....our president used cocaine and he's loved by a third of our stupid population....

"everybody must get stoned!" -Bob Dylan

p.s. is the police auctioning off the weed?

is it dro?

OMFG PIGBRAIN. the pictures of 'these losers'?? at least you dont think yer better than anyone... do u drink?? cuz check the daily police reports for drunk driving. is that you?? or is that gonna be you?? yer gonna judge me and say ill be these people?? u really are a pigbrain. you have NO idea who i am.

i didnt call anyone ignorant or hypocritical for disagreeing with me. not sure how you read that. i said uncle sam is the criminal for his ignorance and hypocrisy. we spend millions of dollars a year fighting this 'war' on drugs, instead of COLLECTING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS BY REGULATING IT. thats ignorant. again, open a paper or a website. ALCOHOL/TOBACCO KILL HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS EVERY YEAR. pot has NEVER killed anyone. even worst case scenario if pot is a poison(its medicine), tell me why its ok as a responsible tax paying adult citizen that i have the choice to DRIVE to a bar and itoxicate myself with a manmade poison, but i dont have the option to smoke pot without bein a criminal. thats hypocrisy. as for patenting a plant, im sure i could go thru those steps, but why would i?? i can throw some unpatented seeds in my garden an watch em grow. thats why pfizer and the other companies wont jump thru the hoops to patent it, cuz then it would cost them millions more sueing everyone who grew it without their permission. so maybe technically you can patent a plant, but why would ya?? maybe my cause is self serving, but im a bit frustrated that after 12 various alcohol related arrests uncle sam still says its ok if i drink. I KNOW ITS NOT OK IF I DRINK. yet im a criminal for smokin a little grass. please billnewbie or ANYONE, tell me how this is ok??

Thekid3477, I'm not going to try to change your views on pot in any way, as I'm sure you'll turn it into another conspiracy theory and three page rant on how beneficial pot is to mankind & how you're the only one educated enough to see it.

Rather, I'll just give you something to consider: Look at the photos of these losers. This is your future. These deadbeats are who you are referring to when you preach about the educated and aware people who know more than the rest of us about pot.

I have frequent run-ins with folks like this, on a level you can't see from your point of view. They aren't the worst of society, but are still a huge problem for the community. These losers are nothing more than a blister on the butt of our society.
I'm hopeful in ten years, you'll look back and realize your views may not have been entirely correct. Hopefully it's before you become as greasy as these guys.

i used to work with jessica nimmo at steakNshake when it was still open. and michael johnson and his father ronald e johnson were frequent customers. i guess i know what they've been up to lately. no need for a catch up session.

I would be fine with them legallizing it, but I wouldn't want them in control. just leave the pot smokers alone. theres plenty of crack and heroin dealers out there that they can get.

and if they legalized pot, it just wouldn't be fun anymore. I would rather give my buddy money then the tax hungry government.

if your going to have that much pot in your house, you can't trust anyone. someones either gonna jack you and take your weed and money, or someone will narc you out.

that made my day. can you imagine how blitzed that guy must get. 8lbs. of personal, now thats funny. but really digital scale and seperate bags says it all. sucks to be him.

thekid3477:
There is medicinal value in opiates as well, yet we will not be legalizing their recreational use any time soon. I find your argument to be disingenuous and self-serving. But, if you can garner a majority, your opinion can prevail. Until then, you would do well to obey the law. The reason I called your previous post an irrational rant is because you accuse those who disagree with your opinion of ignorance and hypocrisy.

the movement has been ongoing for 40 years. weve got i think 12 states who ok medical marijuana, and more working on it. so there IS progress. you should also point out however that the 'war' on drugs has been going on for 40 years and has been even less successful. drug usage is the same. the only thing weve done is spent BILLIONS OF TAXPAYERS DOLLARS, uneducating people and arresting thousands and thousands of responsible pot smokers.

good post wdya:) as for billnewbie. irrational?? how is uncle sam rational by not only okaying the use, but also giving the alcohol/tobacco industry huge tax subisidies.(while taxing the crap out of the user) you know how many people die from those two drugs every year?? HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS. but pot WHICH HAS BEEN USED AS MEDICINE FOR 10,000 FREAKIN YEARS, is illegal. even uncle sam acknowledges the medical FACTS by scheduling Marinol(synthetic THC)as schedule III narcotic, which means it can be prescribed by a dr. so synthetic THC is medical, but THC in its natural state(marijuana/cannabis)is not?? do you know why billnewbie?? because marinol has a patent, and you cant patent a plant(profit). think about it. wheres the rationale in that?? im not tryin to change the world with an 'irrational' rant. im tryin to open eyes one uninformed person at a time so we can become the majority....

Change the law if you can, obey it until you do. If you can "unsettle" this issue, go for it. If you can't, live with it. The movement to legalize pot is 40 years old and has met with little success. Yes, it seems that the issue is settled, for the foreseeable future. Conversely, the movement to regulate tobacco use is strong and effective. Nothing lasts forever.

Hey billnewbie, let's take your argument and apply it to tobacco smoking.

At one time in this country (probably dating back to the 1950s), I would guess that a majority of adults smoked cigarettes.

Nowadays, as the ill effects of tobacco have been proven time and time again, that number has shrunk to way less than 50 percent.

Applying your logic, tobacco use should be outlawed because of "majority rule." Oh wait, I forgot that everything has been settled "for a long time" and there is no chance to revisit any issue. Once illegal, always illegal, right?

It sounds like you subscribe to the George Bush Theory of Righteousness -- everything you do/think is correct because you will never admit you're wrong.

And I think we all know Premier Bush has never made a bad decision ....

Billnew That was said perfectly. glad to know that the Forthward District is still littered with drugdealers

Possession and distribution of a controlled substance is a violation of state and federal law as well as local ordinance. You don't have to like it, you just have to obey it or face the consequences. The issue has been settled for a long time and not going to be changed by irrational rant. The dictates of majority rule can sometimes be a drag, but it's better than the dictates of minority rule by far. We have freedom with restrictions, which is better than restrictions without freedom.

adults selling a WEED that grows anywhere to consenting adults. this is not a crime. the crime is uncle sams ignorance and hypocrisy. its ok to get drunk if yer 21, but not high. its ok to tar yer lungs if yer 18 with tobacco, but not pot. REGULATE/EDUCATE/MEDICATE

No prostitution and we still get pictures?????? WOW BONUS!!!!!!!!