Tenacious - How is calling a thief a thief being "petty"?

"Petty" is questioning the validity of a post or opinion based on the writer's gender, or attacking other posters with factless rhetoric.

The facts are, he stole, he lied and he deserves to be called on the judicial carpet for it.

What makes you think I am a man? Did I ever say I was? I'm justsaying I can't stand vicious, cruel, mean, nasty people who put their noises where they do not belong.

It's funny that you think men can't be petty. Look at you. You wrote: "I can't imagine why anyone would want to be on the Lyons Fire Department. You never know who your friends are." and "Firefighter2000, because of people like you the tax payers of Walworth County have wasted tax money that should not have been spent. The first thing you should have done was to write a certified letter asking for the $80.00. THIS ALL COULD HAVE BEEN HANDLED AT NO EXPENSE TO THE TAX PAPERS!
You stated "I am a fire fighter and we all know that going into the fire service means giving up your free time at the drop of a hat and at the end of the day there is no paycheck". YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT THE END OF THE DAY BUT, TWICE A YEAR YOU ARE GIVEN A CHECK FOR YOUR SERVICES. The Lyons Volunteer Fire Department use to be volunteer. NOT ANY MORE! It is now a part time job with compensation.
I am very ASHAMED of the few Lyons Fire Department members who have gone to great lengths to cause such HATE and DISCONTENT. I can't imagine why the decent members on Lyons Fire Department would want to have anything to do with the department as it now stands." and
"firefighter2000 it looks like you are definetly involved with the few members of Lyons Fire Department with these charges. You have so much information from someone, but NOT all the facts. You were most likely a Lyons Fire Department member at one time who has moved to another town and now they are the lucky ones to have your WONDERFUL personality on their department.
Yes I called the Walworth County Police Department about a problem we had for $2,900.00. We were informed the first thing you do is to send certified letter requesting the $2,900.00. Depending from there where this would go. It is my opinion only HATEFUL DISCONTED PEOPLE would work so hard to try and ruin a persons life, reputation, job, family, and finically over $80.00.
In time the whole truth will eventually come out!!!!!!!!" and "firefighter2000 Are you a female? It sure sounds like it to me!" and last but not least "Puttingonthewetstuff, No they are not the same person just the same sex. Men would never be petty like that! There are more important issues in life than their personal grudges." As you can see it is very apparent that you are that one with a personal grudge. In every comment you've made you have said something negative about either Lyons fire department members or females. All I have said is that the man did what he did and he is guilty. All you are capable of doing is criticizing other people because you can't make a good point about this case to save your life.

Puttingonthewetstuff, No they are not the same person just the same sex. Men would never be petty like that! There are more important issues in life than their personal grudges.

You are so right. I used another name to make the same point. And did you know that I am also using Unknown, 2cents, janesvillian, sarah b, longtimefirefighter, AND firecraker? LOL Give me a break!

What bothers me about this is that he initially denied using the card, but then when he was confronted by the video, he said he used it because he drove his personal vehicle. If it was an "honest" mistake and he grabbed the wrong card, I can't imagine that it would have gone this far. The DA's office obviously found a criminal element in this.

$80 or $8000, intentionally defrauding someone is theft. And when you're in the public eye and hold a high position of authority in the community, like it or not, you are watched like a hawk and your actions will always be under close scrutiny.

Why is it that "Purrmaid" and "Firefighter2000" sound like one in the same in the way of their writings?
That's good - just sign in as a different name. OK! No problem we can handel that!
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Tenacious,
Now THAT was funny! A little crude and to the point but funny nonetheless.
Come to think about it that might be why the other name was used. >;-)

Thank you purrmaid!

"Amann initially denied using the credit card..."

"Once investigators confronted Amann with their video evidence, he claimed he had used the credit card...."

If one element of the human character could be elevated, I would vote for "integrity." Doing the right thing, even when no one is looking.

Shame on Mr. Amann for lacking any integrity at all. Shame on him for cheating his employer, shame on him for lying to authorities, shame on him for besmirching the department, shame on him for embarassing his family.

HE set the ball in motion with HIS actions and HE alone is to blame for any tax money needed to prosecute him. If he'd followed established departmental protocol for reimbursement or owned up to his "mistake" he wouldn't be in this mess. Shame on him.

firefighter2000 Are you a female? It sure sounds like it to me!

Someone made the comment about how we should all go to the court house and tell the treasurer where he or she could put his or her job for starting this fiasco. Are you kidding me? Now we're condemning people for doing their jobs? That's like the people who say "I hate cops." And then when you ask them why they say, "Well because I got busted for possession a couple of times and I got pulled over for speeding too." But, they are the first one's to use them when they need someone on their side. That sounds just as ridiculous as the other comment. They hate people for doing their jobs. I find it very amusing that in other comments made here people have ridiculed others for not thanking firefighters for a job well done. Then when firefighter's save their house or pet, some people still complain that they didn't get there fast enough or because of all the water damage they caused. And too many people are ungrateful in this world. Take a look around once... You are now those people. Instead of thanking someone for doing their job correctly, you are now scrutinizing them for it. However, if the shoe was on the other foot and the treasurer didn't catch it and somewhere down the road someone else did, then everyone would be saying, "Why didn't they catch it before." and "Who is to blame for missing it?" and "WHY WEREN'T THEY DOING THEIR JOB?!" That's kind of a catch 22 for the treasurer then isn't it? I mean if they didn't do their job they would be raked over the coals. And yet ironically if they do their job, then they're raked over the coals anyways as you all have proved. Now let's put the shoe on the other foot. Who wasn't doing their job? OK so a police officer or a deputy has taken an oath to uphold the law at all times, in and out of uniform. Since Mr. Amann wasn't authorized to use the fire department credit card it is considered illegal which in turn is theft which falls along the lines of not doing his job which gives anyone the right to hold him accountable for his actions. He should be ashamed of himself for pleading not guilty when they have him on video using the card mistakenly or not. The evidence is against him. He should really consider changing his plea if he cared about his new job, finances, family and reputation as much as you all seem to. He's saying he's innocent, your saying he did it accidentally, I'm saying he just did it, PERIOD. He should just fess up and take it like a man. And no I am not associated with the treasurer or anyone involved in this case and no Mr.Amann never wronged me. I believe I've never even met him before. I knew you were thinking it though! LOL My point is he should admit his fault and be done with it.

I have never been on the Lyons fire department and I couldn't even tell you one person's name on their department. The only reason why I knew the court stuff is because of the internet. Court documents are public record and easily accessible on the internet. As for the the Walworth County S.O. telling you to send a certified letter first was because your matter was most likely a civil matter that they couldn't take any part in like someone not paying for a service rendered or someone not paying their rent. That goes to small claims court, but since he used a business credit card to make an unauthorized purchase he is being charged because that is considered theft. And besides, it doesn't matter how big or little the purchase amount. It's still illegal either way. Just like when someone is pulled over for doing 20 or 25 m.p.h. over the speed limit both are still considered speeding and very much illegal.

Thanks for the info on the date in question at least I know who will wind up being there in support.
Notice how this blog is still going on? This must mean something.
Craig, if you're reading this blog keep your chin up big guy and have some faith in the people that you worked with. Not all of them were AH's! There are a lot of people that think that this has gone way too far and if there is something that you need then jump in and say something on this blog. I know that you have some friends in other departments that use to work with you. This is the time to "cash in your chips" and ask for their support and /or help. We, your REAL friends, are here for you we just want you to know that.

Actually, firefighter2000...if you are going to start quoting the law, you really should read it first.
Your assertion that "theft of movable property which he did accidental or intentionally. It doesn't matter according to the law it is the same thing."
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In fact it DOES matter according to the law.
INTENTIONALLY is a major component of the statute you cited.

firefighter2000 it looks like you are definetly involved with the few members of Lyons Fire Department with these charges. You have so much information from someone, but NOT all the facts. You were most likely a Lyons Fire Department member at one time who has moved to another town and now they are the lucky ones to have your WONDERFUL personality on their department.

Yes I called the Walworth County Police Department about a problem we had for $2,900.00. We were informed the first thing you do is to send certified letter requesting the $2,900.00. Depending from there where this would go. It is my opinion only HATEFUL DISCONTED PEOPLE would work so hard to try and ruin a persons life, reputation, job, family, and finically over $80.00.

In time the whole truth will eventually come out!!!!!!!!

The next court date is September 12th at 8:15a.m. in room 3060. Gibbs is the judge. His plea is not guilty and he is being charged with Theft of Movable Property less than $2500.00 under state statute 943.20(1)(a). I just also want to point out that in the charges it doesn't say accidental theft of movable property or intentional theft of movable property. It just says theft of movable property which he did accidental or intentionally. It doesn't matter according to the law it is the same thing.

my2centsworth: That's great that he thanked all the people that came to his house, but you missed my point. My point was that we aren't in this job for the glory or for the praise of others. We are here because it's in our blood or it's our passion. For those firefighters who are here for the Glory (Gloryboys we call them) Then they are here for the wrong reasons like you have pointed out because sometimes it is a thankless job. As for am I the one pushing this through? LOL I don't even live in Lyons or work there for that matter. News just travel's fast. Whether it was an accident or not it is still illegal. You said that these people should just let him pay back the $80.00 and let him go on with his life and not have him lose his job and get into debt. Well he could save himself the trouble and admit he was wrong the first day of court instead of fighting it and I'm sure they would be lenient. But since he got a lawyer and lied to police it's not looking so good for him right now.

Tenacious: Like I told my2cents worth, I am not on Lyons Fire Department and I don't work for the Town of Lyons. And yes some fire departments out there still don't get payed and are volunteer. I think it's funny that you think that sending a certified letter would have solved this whole problem. If someone stole $80.00 from you would you send them a certified letter to get it back?! LOL No you would go to the police and in your words "waist Walworth County tax dollars." Well I hate to break it to you, but if they didn't spend the tax money on this it would have been on something else. And besides, that's what we pay taxes for in the first place. As for the Lyons firefighters who still want to have a part in the department, well if it were my department that was going through this, I would think why let one person ruin it for everybody else? You don't see basketball players all up and quit because one guy did something illegal. The rest still move on no matter how scandalous the actions were of the former play. However, now people are going to look down on their fire department because of their former Chief's actions. People are going to believe that they are thieves and liars too. So in my opinion they have every right to be upset. They are the one's that have to stay here and deal with it while he's in AZ or jail. Whatever. What I can't understand is why anyone would be upset at the fire department for holding someone responsible for their actions accidental or not. You may accidently set someone's house on fire, but you are still held responsible. You may unintentionally kill someone in a car accident, but you are still held responsible. There is no one else to blame in this matter. It's very clear who did it and whether it was accidental or not he is being held responsible.

Come to think of it can someone tell me when this is going to court? I want to be there to give the court the frickin' $80.00 myself and tell them what has been said on these blogs in support of Craig. Matter of fact I found that there are many blogs in support of Craig. If we all get together we could tell the treasurer where he can put HIS/HER job for starting this fiasco.

Firefighter2000:
I know who "my2centsworth" is and he is a guy I admire. This man is a fire photographer for several of the fire departments out here in Walworth County. He does this on his own time with his own money and his own equipment and he is appreciated by most departments.
Not only will I agree with what he had said but I will add that I was on one of the other fire trucks that pulled on scene that afternoon and everything he described is extreamly accurate including the point that Craig & his wife thanked the people that showed up at his house. What did you want a kiss & hug from him?
Craig didn't take off and "suddenly" move as you stated. Craig had been trying very hard to make the grade so that he could get on the county sherrif's department down there in AZ and when he finally made it he was very happy & had pleanty of time to sell his belongings in their moving sale over a two week period. Quit trying to make it seem like he took off running with a whole $80.00 to AZ. This whole thing is way out of whack and he should have been asked to repay it - period! I'm getting to the point that I can actually say I am ashamed to say I am from SE Wisconsin with the way people act. One more thing I can't stand is nobody knows how to say thank you or that was a job well done or anything like that. Not only to the FD and the PD but every thing in general.

Firefighter2000, because of people like you the tax payers of Walworth County have wasted tax money that should not have been spent. The first thing you should have done was to write a certified letter asking for the $80.00. THIS ALL COULD HAVE BEEN HANDLED AT NO EXPENSE TO THE TAX PAPERS!

You stated "I am a fire fighter and we all know that going into the fire service means giving up your free time at the drop of a hat and at the end of the day there is no paycheck". YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT THE END OF THE DAY BUT, TWICE A YEAR YOU ARE GIVEN A CHECK FOR YOUR SERVICES. The Lyons Volunteer Fire Department use to be volunteer. NOT ANY MORE! It is now a part time job with compensation.

I am very ASHAMED of the few Lyons Fire Department members who have gone to great lengths to cause such HATE and DISCONTENT. I can't imagine why the decent members on Lyons Fire Department would want to have anything to do with the department as it now stands.

You said,
"Well did you know that a few months back his house in Wisconsin got struck by lightning and his own fire department and also a surrounding fire department showed up to fight the fire? Do you think he went to every firefighter individually that showed up that night and thanked them personally? No instead he stole $80.00 from the same agency that showed up to his house for an emergency and left town like nothing ever happened and then when questioned by police lied about it! He deserves everything he gets!"
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Well, here is where things get personal.
#1 I was there as the third vehicle at his house that rainy afternoon. To prove it the house got hit near the tree & burned the lights on the gutter and put a 6" hole in the ground. Next, Yes, I did actually hear him thank several others and me for being there and his wife did also. Now if he didn't thank you well, maybe you ran back to your vehicle before he had that chance or you didn't hear it or you have a personal problem with him.
Next, when confronted with the use of the card he said no he didn't use it. He didn't even realize that he did it until he was shown the tape.
Wait a minute... Are YOU the one who is pushing this to go through because YOU had a grudge with him? Hmmmmm? Something doesn't sound right here. You are WAY to much against this guy. Let him pay the stinkin' $80.00 and let him get his life together with his family in AZ. Quit trying to ruin him, his career, his family & get into debt with lawyers.
One more thing: When I said that people don't give a fat rat's @$$ about him helping his community let me tell you that it seems that the only ones who care about fire & EMT personnel are the people who have needed their service - and that is maybe only 75% of them. They even bitch about their house burning to the ground even though they never invested in smoke detectors for themselves. But it's the fire departments fault for not putting it out and it's their fault for the water damage. Too many people are ungratefull in this world!
Den

First off I believe you are all ignorant if you believe that he didn't know he was using the fire department credit card. It was just conveinent that he was leaving for AZ. And if it was an accident then why didn't he tell anyone about it so he could pay back the fire department? Or for that matter why did he lie about it to the police when questioned? You also say that it's just $80.00 and he should be allowed to pay it back and be on his way, but what if someone stole $80.00 from you and when the police showed up after you called them they told you it's just $80.00 get over it. How upset would you be? As a firefighter myself for several years I find this very upsetting. Some of the comments that I have heard and seen are even more upsetting. The one that caught my eye the most was this comment made by my2centsworth.

"Yeah, I know, "If you let one get away with it then they'll all want to." What about when he helped save lives and property? How many people actually gave a fat rat's @$$ and thanked the man for being there? Right! Nobody! Why? Because they say, "It's your job!" Now how many of you know that the job of being a firefighter and risking your life is done for free? Would you do that??? Remember that when the fire department comes out to help YOU!!"

Well like I said before I AM a firefighter and we all know that going into the fire service means giving up your free time at the drop of a hat and at the end of the day there is no paycheck. We also learn very quickly that when you are a firefighter you are ALWAYS in the public eye and people rarely see you as anything else. You have got to set an example when you belong to a government run agency. People generally define you by your job title and not by your personality. That is just one of the downfalls to being a firefighter. You are rarely painted as anything else. The other thing that really ticks me off is in that same comment it says,

"What about when he helped save lives and property? How many people actually gave a fat rat's @$$ and thanked the man for being there? Right! Nobody!"

We are NOT above anyone just because of the job we do. We are tax paying, LAW abiding citizens just like everybody else! We have to follow the same rules no exceptions! If we get caught speeding, we get a ticket, if we steal anything including $80.00 in gas we go to jail. Also you said that he has saved lives and property and you bet that nobody thanked him for being there. Well did you know that a few months back his house in Wisconsin got struck by lightning and his own fire department and also a surrounding fire department showed up to fight the fire? Do you think he went to every firefighter individually that showed up that night and thanked them personally? No instead he stole $80.00 from the same agency that showed up to his house for an emergency and left town like nothing ever happened and then when questioned by police lied about it! He deserves everything he gets!

I guess I am on the slow boat having just heard of this. Being on a surrounding fire department for many years I can see both sides.....However, in response to many many comments, you sign up as a volunteer, not expecting to be paid ANYTHING!! You do it to help and give back to your community not get from them. If Fire Fighter's and EMT's in the surrounding area's of Walworth County are on Volunteer Departments to make some money, someone along the way advised you wrong! If you got no reimbursement would you stop helping your communities? I hope not, or the world is getting worse then I thought. So.....in regards to the article topic, wrong is wrong, reimbursement comes from the department not self reimbursement, or at least that is how I have always known things in this area. To initally deny it means you have had something to hide and the inital reaction is back pedal and think what to do. There have been a lot of really good Fire Fighters in Wisconsin in the past couple years who have made bad decisions and had to pay the price. At some point I hope everyone remembers why they began doing this and if you have forgotten and don't care anymore, do us all a favor and hang your helmet up in style.

I can'tbelieve that this is over $80.00. Give me a break. As the chief who knows how many miles he drove, hours he worked, etc all unacounted for. Based on what the article says he should just repay the 80 bucks, say he sorry and let everyone get on with their lives. How much is this $80 going to cost everyone in the long run.

I can't imagine why anyone would want to be on the Lyons Fire Department. You never know who your friends are.

Scooby dooby doo!! LMAO, that was a good one garyprimer!

as a tax payer of lyons this irritates me. so if the chief starts filling his vehicles, what kind of example is he setting for the rest of the people on the fire dept? so, i need gas in my car, should i ask the town to pay for it? i think not! nobody forces these people to volunteer their time, they choose to. so being that, they also should understand that the reimbursment rate is what it is. ALSO...to those that think they know it all.....mr. amann resigned from the town of burlington police department on a hush-hush situation, and he did not own a house anywhere in lyons when they moved. SOOOOO.....my2centsworth, get your story right. what he did was wrong, and i'm sure a much larger story is looming behind what we are going to hear....

please, do not misunderstand my great respect to those that do give a lot of their time to volunteer to protect the town, i appreciate the HONEST ones.

I think the headline says it best "misuse". Not "theft".

Has anyone out there paid for a purchase with the wrong card or am I the only one?

Just another reason to make people think again before serving the public. Thank God that we foiled this man's brilliant plan of infiltrating the fire department, gaining their trust, filling his truck with gas, and fleeing to Arizona. And he would have gotten away with it if it weren’t for you meddling kids.

Waterfront- its both the amount and nature of the "crime". To me he was trusted with the "business" credit card and he violated that trust. He should repay the "business". But again- nature and amount. He didn't rob a bank for goodness sakes!

This is over $80 in gas? Hard to believe.

Not knowing any details other than those given in the article, I tend to agree with My2centsworth. If they didn't try to settle this privately before notifying authorities, then I think they made an error in judgment. To likely ruin the guy's future over a stupid, petty move by him is truly sad. How many of us have not made a serious mistake in our lives? I hope everything turns out OK on this one.

I agree, Janesvillian. However, I think calling the police is a little tacky without first letting the guy pay it back.

Keep in mind I may feel differently if I knew the full story; I'm just going off what is in the article.

Well, since he tried to deny it, I guess he knew he screwed up and hoped to get out of it somehow. That's not the same as a "whoops!"
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And I don't think that because somebody forgot to put in for reimbursement that they should be allowed to just dip into the municipal coffers any time they feel like it.

Wouldn't the proper way to handle this is let him know that he did not fill out a request for reimbursement and the charges are not authorized. Give him the opportunity to pay it back. I can't imagine calling police over something like this.

I forgot to add that I have mistakenly taken the wrong credit card out of my wallet a few times and used my business card for personal use. When the bank sheets come at the end of the month I see that I bought groceries on the business card and supplies on my personal card. Big deal. Should I get a warrent out for myself or should I just straighten out the problem myself? Of course people in office don't make mistakes do they?

OK! So it wasn't right to fill his tank without asking... but come on. These people are asked to risk their lives every day they go out and they are "allowed" $8.00 for gas? What about all the times people forget to request that $8.00?
Yeah! I know, let's rip him a new one just because he left for a better job somewhere else. Right? Gee! When he was in Burlington at his other job of being a cop he must have given this person a ticket.
Is a stinking lously $80.00 worth ruining a man's career & life? Give me a break.
Gee! Last I heard is that Chief left the area to become a County Sheriff in AZ where the inmates where pink and live in tents.
Sold the house, had a garage sale to sell most of their possessions and was happy to leave and start his new job.
When he comes back he gets to wear orange instead of pink and I'll bet 10:1 he doesn't have his job back in AZ all because of a stupid $80.00 in gas and someone who couldn't wait to stick it to him for wanting to do better for his family. At least let him give the frickin' $80.00 back and chaulk it up to a farewell present and just tell the man, " Good luck on your new job."
Yeah, I know, "If you let one get away with it then they'll all want to." What about when he helped save lives and property? How many people actually gave a fat rat's @$$ and thanked the man for being there? Right! Nobody! Why? Because they say, "It's your job!" Now how many of you know that the job of being a firefighter and risking your life is done for free? Would you do that??? Remember that when the fire department comes out to help YOU!!

Ooops..he denied the allegations, was shown proof with a video tape, then admits yes, he did use the card. Now he is wasting time pleading not guilty. Why not just take your punishment and be done. Eye roll!

Arent our public officials saposed to be honest.An not have a bad public imiage.