A new foreign language? At what cost?
Janesville School Board members would like to add a new foreign language to help students face the changing global economy.
They’re also keen on saving taxpayers money during difficult economic times.
Adding courses costs money, so board members may feel torn when they consider foreign-language options Tuesday night.
The board commissioned a task force to consider the options, and the group’s report was discussed at two recent board meetings.
The task force recommends that Mandarin Chinese be added to the current French, German and Spanish. The group also laid out options that would allow for several new languages or expand current offerings.
The task force also suggests that kids start learning languages earlier than the current seventh grade.
Finding qualified teachers in Chinese or other new languages will be difficult and limit any program, said Donna Behn, director of instruction. The district now employs one teacher of Chinese who is working under an emergency license and is working to get certified.
The teacher offers Chinese to students in the Challenge Program for the gifted and talented and at the Janesville Academy for International Studies, which serves a small number of high school students.
On Tuesday, the board will be asked what options it prefers. The board’s direction would lead to planning over the coming year. New programs could start in September 2009.
The options include:
-- Continue the current, limited Chinese offerings.
Cost: One certified Chinese instructor. The average cost of a teacher’s salary and benefits is $54,500.
-- Start an elementary program, one school at a time.
Cost: $10,580 per year for one grade level, or $63,500 per building once it’s in all grades, or $763,000 for all 12 elementary schools.
-- Establish an elementary charter school. Students would study several different languages for one half hour, three times a week.
Cost: Depends on the number of languages and whether the language was integrated into art, music and phy ed classes, which could hold down costs. Charter-school grants would help in initial phases.
-- Offer online classes in various languages through the Janesville Virtual Academy. The academy is part of a consortium of online schools that could buy courses from the Florida Virtual School.
Costs vary and would be lower if a local teacher could be found to teach the online course.
-- Expand middle-school programming in French, German and Spanish. Now, students learn two to three days a week in seventh and eighth grades. Few learn enough to continue into second-year courses in high school, Behn said.
Cost: Minimum $89,925 for three days a week for seventh-graders; minimum $226,800 for five days a week for eighth-graders. Costs would increase if another language was added.
-- Offer a sixth-grade exploratory course.
Cost: Depends on how many sign up. Minimum $21,800.
-- The Youth Options program, which is available now to students who qualify. It requires school districts to pay tuition for high school students to take college courses when those courses are not available at their high schools.
-- Add summer-school language courses.
-- A suggestion from board member Bill Sodemann: Buy off-the-shelf language-teaching software, and hire a teacher to be a resource and handle testing and grades.
Cut French or German?
How about paying for a new foreign language by dropping one of the current foreign languages?
The task force that studied the Janesville School District’s options decided that wouldn’t be a good idea.
The task force report shows Spanish is the most popular among local parents. It also suggests that French and German remain important in international trade.
But global economic shifts suggest that Asian languages will be in high demand for decades to come.
Tim Cullen, one of the school board’s most ardent backers of a new foreign language, appeared disappointed that the task force didn’t recommend cutting French or German. He sees those languages as less important than some others in the 21st century.
At the last board meeting, Cullen said he knew that cutting a language is a sensitive topic, but he said that some day the board will face that decision.
Some of the task force’s recommendations would cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, Cullen noted, and “we don’t have that kind of money.”
IF YOU GO
The Janesville School Board meets at 7 p.m. Tuesday at the Educational Services Center, 527 S. Franklin St. Those who want to address the board are limited to three minutes. The meeting will be carried live on Janesville cable Channel 13.
Aug 15, 2008 at 5:57 a.m.
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"most teachers have to spend a LOT just on classroom supplies and materials for their own students"
I hear this comment all the time. Nothing heroic about it. Many professions buy aids to enhance their work and make it easier - Teachers deserve no praise for this - it is a common practice by many outside the teacher`s union.
Aug 15, 2008 at 5:53 a.m.
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"A 'new' foreign language"? Tee-hee.
Aug 15, 2008 at 5:24 a.m.
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We already buy everything from overseas, so might as well learn the language....we will be working as laborers for other countries soon anyway! We can't seem to stay on the great American ethic that got us to our status in the world. But hey let's all learn Mandarin Chinese or whatever! What?! Not me. I want my son to learn how to build things, think out problems, and develop a learning mind. Then if he wants, let him learn Martian for all I care! First things first, educators, get the curiculum solidified and reach these young people first. Have you taken a good look at these kids in the last 10 years or so? This is more than just a generation-shift. I say NO to additional languages for any grade in the junior or high school level.
Aug 15, 2008 at 5:16 a.m.
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Should I even try to touch this subject!? Well, I'll try. I noticed very few people mentioning anything affective and adjacent to this subject. Instead of verbal language, I think our kids need to be school more on the universal language......Mathematics. Our kids are routinely subjected to advanced electronics and techocrap. But few even know how to do basic skills of their own. How about completeing steps A, B, and C first? You know general stuff like geography, math, science etc. These advanced languages (for the average student), should'nt be focused on until after high school. Our kids are going to be lost. In 2001, there was a report on TV about the top five universities in the USA (for top standards of engeneering degrees), in which 70% of the graduates were not even from this nation. That same year began an increase in the number of young people (in our country), going into the non-skilled job force such as fast food, and basic laborer. AND HERE WE ARE, forming commities to decide what additional languages we want to throw at our already uncertain children's learning period of life! There how's that for a thought!
Aug 14, 2008 at 9 p.m.
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30-40 years ago who had the foresight that Spanish would be as influential as it is? (Certainly they're our neighbor but did anyone see it becoming this integral?)
30-40 years from now, what is going to be the most important language for society? Make your arguments for whatever - you don't have a crystal ball.
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We have French Canadian people to our North. The French are (even though we have political differences) important allies to the United States.
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Germany has a very strong industrial economy (not all "our" jobs are going to China, Mexico, and India). Many people in Wisconsin are of German ancestry.
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We should continue and expand the programs we already have. With the difficulty of finding qualified people willing to teach Chinese and Arabic for as little a teacher makes (languages do indeed make a person very marketable even in Janesville) will make the longevity of a new program difficult. If we have the resources, by all means let's add a program, but don't pretend to have a crystal ball that gives you more foresight into our future than your neighbor.
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Why is the school board so heavily involved in the curriculum of the district anyway? Don't we have people with doctorates in curriculum and instruction on the payroll to make those decisions? Of course it is important to have community influence on the purse strings... what's next? a crackdown on poetry because who in Janesville uses poetry on a daily basis? Come on. There are things that get taught in schools all the time that may not directly affect the employment futures of our youth, but we accept them as they encourage and inspire - it's called education.
Aug 14, 2008 at 8:07 p.m.
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Spending money to have our children learn Mandarin Chinese in Wisconsin, USA seems frivolous to me. Wouldn't our resources best be spent making sure that the kids could first locate China on a world map, balance their checkbook, make and count change, or even use their turn signals? These skills would be much more useful than speaking Mandarin in something called “Real Life”.
Aug 14, 2008 at 4:50 p.m.
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MOC0428,
One more thing: Once the supply of qualified teachers exceeds the demand, then the higher salary would go down which means lower taxes. Or in my case, lower cost to send kids to private schools.
Aug 14, 2008 at 4:39 p.m.
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MOC0428,
"According to your line of thinking it would be the "more qualified" teachers that would be demanding more money."
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It wouldn't be the teachers that are demanding more money. It would be the school district demanding qualified teachers. And the teachers that take responsibility for their own education would get a better paying job as a result. Basically, they had to earn the higher pay. Not like some the current teachers that whine about not making enough, not having better benefits, or why the tax payers aren't paying them to go to school when they really don't deserve it. I think good teachers should get rewarded and the bad ones should lose their job. That doesn't really happen because of the teacher's union. As far as the issue with my taxes going up, you forget that I'm in favor of privatizing the education system. It would only cost me more if I chose to send them a school with the best teachers.
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"It is not uncommon for private/public business to provide training for its workforce."
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But business do it at their own expense. Why should it be done at taxpayer expense? There are many people going to college for a teaching degree at their own expense. There's no need to pay teachers to go.
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"In the end learning more languages at any cost will be a good thing for our countries future. It is not all about the U.S. anymore, there are many other nations that we have to deal with and those dealing will only increase in the future."
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I'm not saying learning a foreign language isn't a good idea, but you have to realize that English is the international language of business and commerce.
Aug 14, 2008 at 3:57 p.m.
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My oldest son took 4 years of German @ Craig. He tested out of two YEARS (12 credits) of college German. He is triple majoring in German, History & International Studies. He probably would not be able to triple major if he hadn't skipped all those lower level German classes. He also took 1 year of Chinese @ the International Academy (part of the JSD). He took Chinese 1 in college (while taking a Junior level German class) and struggled with it. Chinese is a very difficult language to learn. The world is getting smaller, mainly because of the internet & ease of travel (remember what it was like to call long distance in the 60's or travel overseas?). Our children need to learn another language--we can't expect the world to speak english. Our younger son also took 4 years of German @ Craig (God Bless Linda Miller!!) And will continue his German studies in college beginning this fall. He too has tested out of several German classes. Kids need to learn a second (or third) language!
Aug 14, 2008 at 11:34 a.m.
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sorry spelling error on "countries"
Aug 14, 2008 at 11:33 a.m.
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DrTalk: Now I have to jump back in again.
DrTalk says---- "It's all supply and demand. If teachers cant afford to go back to school, it will create a demand for qualified teachers. When there is demand, they will offer bigger salary to attract qualified teachers. So then people that can afford the schooling will go to school and they will get a high paying teaching job. Problem solved"
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That being said then your taxes which you care so much about will go up right? If the schools get rid of the teachers that can't afford to go back for more educacation they must hire more teachers. According to your line of thinking it would be the "more qualified" teachers that would be demanding more money. This in turn will take more from your pocket in the long run then just helping out with the teachers you already have.
It is not uncommon for private/public business to provide training for its workforce. It is a long term investment for the company that will pay off in the long run. It costs more to hire new in many cases than it does to maintain your current workforce.
In the end learning more languages at any cost will be a good thing for our countries future. It is not all about the U.S. anymore, there are many other nations that we have to deal with and those dealing will only increase in the future.
Aug 14, 2008 at 11:26 a.m.
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"I find it amusing that you feel it necessary to refer to Hitler when trying to defame my public education."
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When you're being amused, read that quote from Hitler again and then read this:
http://blogs.jsonline.com/mcilheran/arch...
Aug 14, 2008 at 10:29 a.m.
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Focusing on proper English does not preclude learning other languages. As a matter of fact, learning one or more languages other than English would augment reading, comprehending, and speaking each language properly.
Aug 14, 2008 at 9:40 a.m.
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"schools should focus on literacy and knowledge of our language, ENGLISH before teaching a foreign one.How many kids know the proper way and definitions of constructing a sentence? Nouns, Verbs, etc... The schools should make sure kids master english before teaching them another."
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I agree with the first part but disagree with the second part. Yes they should be learning English (definitions, proper sentence structure, etc) but a language that will help them out with that is Latin. They should learn both at the same time.
http://ancienthistory.about.com/cs/whyst...
Aug 14, 2008 at 9:26 a.m.
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OK, bottom line is schools should focus on literacy and knowledge of our language, ENGLISH before teaching a foreign one. I like 'redbedhead's' idea of sign language. How many kids know the proper way and definitions of constructing a sentence? Nouns, Verbs, etc... The schools should make sure kids master english before teaching them another. How about having a english foreign language class for those who can't speak it! If we go to their countries I can understand the need or tourists from other countries, but why do we have to bend for those who refuse to speak english in our country on a daily basis?? TAKE BACK AMERICA FOLKS! or mabee a foreign language would be good for kids since getting a job here in the states will be hard since companies are shipping them overseas!
Aug 14, 2008 at 9 a.m.
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"DrTalk: Tell me what will happen to our education system if the teachers can't afford to go back to school"
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It's all supply and demand. If teachers cant afford to go back to school, it will create a demand for qualified teachers. When there is demand, they will offer bigger salary to attract qualified teachers. So then people that can afford the schooling will go to school and they will get a high paying teaching job. Problem solved.
Aug 14, 2008 at 8:37 a.m.
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I agree that the people are in control of the government. I never hinted otherwise.
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I have read the constitution, and the language you refer to "light and transient causes" provides the flexibility that I refer to. That very language is what distinctly makes the constitution a living and breathing document.
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If you feel that you need to draw conclusions about how I feel about the government to further your argument, feel free. Let it be known that I NEVER communicated that "they could just arbitrarily change the law so that they don't get in trouble."
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If anything, my public education has enabled me to believe that the government is led by the people for the people. I have no idea why you seem so willing to draw conclusions about me being "conditioned" in any way. I find it amusing that you feel it necessary to refer to Hitler when trying to defame my public education.
If you feel so strongly about arguing this topic, I ask only that you do not assume things about me. You do not know me or what I think. In any of my posts, have I assumed anything about you or your beliefs? I've offered you no evidence to draw the conclusions that you have. I'd also appreciate you not bringing historical references that have no bearing on this article or my posts.
Aug 14, 2008 at 8:17 a.m.
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lakennedy,
It was NOT meant to be a "living, breathing document." If you read the Constitution you would know that it should not be changed for "light and transient causes."
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Rule of law means that no one is above the law. But according to you they could just arbitrarily change the law so that they don't get in trouble.
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There's a reason why I mentioned government schools. Hitler said "Let me control the textbooks and I will control the state. The state will take youth and give to youth its own education and its own upbringing." So it appears you've been conditioned to believe that the Constitution is a "living, breathing document" which just isn't true. In the United States, the people tell the government what they can and can't do - not the other way around.
Aug 14, 2008 at 7:56 a.m.
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The description "living, breathing document" is exactly what flexible is. The constitution is not a stagnant thing. The reason it was meant to be living/breathing is so that it would remain flexible.
So, these "rules of law" you refer to were created by....MAN. They are also enforced by what or whom? By MAN. To me, that means that one cannot exist without the other.
I did and do go to a government funded school. Did you have a point when you wrote that? I'm not sure why you felt the need to include it in your post.
Aug 14, 2008 at 7:39 a.m.
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"Our founding fathers also had the forsight to create a flexible document in the constitution, as the needs and functions of a society are ever evolving."
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Not entirely true. It really wasn't meant to be flexible; It wasn't meant to be a "living, breathing document" What they wanted was "rule of law" not "rule of man." It wasn't meant to be arbitrarily changed; especially not by activist judges. It can only be changed by a super majority in Congress.
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But I bet you didn't know that. Why? I'm betting it's because you attended a government school.
Aug 14, 2008 at 7:07 a.m.
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Dr. Talk:
Our founding fathers also had the forsight to create a flexible document in the constitution, as the needs and functions of a society are ever evolving.
Aug 14, 2008 at 6:34 a.m.
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lakennedy,
"Your argument that the government is like a robber breaking into my house at night stealing hard earned money is nothing short of ridiculous. I could use the same argument for ANY government spending I don't agree with."
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Not true. You have to understand what the role of government should be. Our Founding Fathers knew better than to let the government run the education system.
Aug 13, 2008 at 10:20 p.m.
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Farmdude - Well said and very accurate. Xie xie
Redhawk - There are over 40 million overseas Chinese in the world. This should be a clue to you that it is now a global language. By the way - Wu zhi jiu shi ben dan. (That's Mandarin Chinese....you figure out the translation)
Aug 13, 2008 at 11:22 a.m.
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No, although German and French might be "useless" in day-to-day life in Janesville for many people; keep in mind Germany has the highest export revenue in the world; of course followed by China.
With future company mergers, buy-offs, etc-it would be very difficult to deem many languages "useless".
I myself wish I had taken German in high school (or preferably earlier) - it would have been much easier than trying to pick it up now.
Aug 12, 2008 at 8:05 p.m.
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Kiwi...I happen to know that the PTA has a horrible time getting teachers to ask them for funds ($40,000 in Kennedy's alone) for items they need for the classroom. They are given notices and are pretty much begged to put in requests for what they need. The money just sits there. The teachers continue to purchase out of their own pockets rather than fill out a request form. Sounds like some martyrs to me.
Aug 12, 2008 at 3:59 p.m.
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I keep seeing the $54,000 figure coming up in comments. If anyone read the full sentence, that is for salary AND BENEFITS. That does NOT mean the teacher is making $54,000 a year before taxes. How many of you consider the employer's contribution into your salary?
As for foreign languages, Mandarin may very well become a valuable skill in the coming years. At the same time, there are many languages that are valuable and it seems to me that the Janesville School District wants to have a class for each of them. It's better to excel at a few than be mediocre at many. Focus on the classes that are already offered. Focus on the required classes.
It's counter-productive for a school system to say they are cutting classes and then look into how they can add others.
Aug 12, 2008 at 3:47 p.m.
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WHAT ABOUT SIGN LANGUAGE?
Aug 12, 2008 at 3:27 p.m.
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If you want to give Janesville students an edge in tomorrow's workplace, teach Chinese.
Aug 12, 2008 at 3:09 p.m.
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Why are they still teaching French and German? These languages are useless. Spanish might have some value due to the invasion, errrr, influx or speakers of that language into our porously-guarded nation.
Teach today's kids Chinese and Arabic so they can speak with our future overlords.
Aug 12, 2008 at 2:38 p.m.
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It is amazing how there can be so much resistance to education and foreign language.
We should try to give children every opportunity to excel, rather than find excuses to further isolate them/us from the ever-growing international market.
Many kids in most developed countries are fluently multilingual by the time kids here take their first foreign language course.
Aug 12, 2008 at 1:08 p.m.
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MOC0428,
I'm not debating a teacher's worth. But, you seem to have the idea that the only ones that can teach are licensed teachers. That's not true. Parents are just as capable of teaching their children.
Aug 12, 2008 at 12:50 p.m.
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And yet, you keep posting!
Aug 12, 2008 at 12:31 p.m.
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Let it die! I'm not going to debate a teachers worth with you. It is obvious you have no understanding of the system and all you care about is your taxes. Be done with it. We will not agree on this matter.
Aug 12, 2008 at 12:18 p.m.
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I took both French and German through "junior high" and high school; I continued with French through most of college. While I have had little use in terms of communicating with another person in these languages, both languages were invaluable as I prepared for the vocabulary sections of college prep tests and simply in learning many new words in my lifetime. I also remember that grammar in ENGLISH suddenly became much clearer in high school as I learned the intricacies of grammar in my French class - direct object and indirect object pronouns quickly made sense, again in English. Thus, I do believe that ALL languages can be of significant value simply in terms of knowing our "first" language even better. I am for adding languages when we can, and I do not support eliminating the ones we have. A family member of mine who became nearly fluent in German (one we would probably consider on the chopping block right now) earned an international position in two different companies she has worked for simply because she spoke German when no one else could! (both jobs related to cell phones and cars!)We seem to be one of the few industrialized nations left where we simply refuse to start teaching our young children multiple languages to compete globally. When I visited Europe, most people I needed to communicate with spoke French, German, English, and Spanish - maybe not perfectly, but enough to be extremely helpful to me when I could not help myself.
Aug 12, 2008 at 11:33 a.m.
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"Teachers need to continue to go so they keep there license."
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I'm sure students interested in teaching are aware of this. They need to keep that in mind when deciding to go into the teaching profession and plan accordingly. Just because teachers need to continue there education to keep their license is not a reason for taxpayers to pay for it.
Aug 12, 2008 at 11:30 a.m.
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I started taking conversational French in the fourth grade. My French education ended at the end of my freshmen year of highschool. Having no one to speak French with, I have retained very little of my skills.
I believe that Spanish should be a manditory class in High School unless a student is able to test out. Other languages should be optional, if students want to study something that is not currently offered, they should look to Blackhawk Tech for an evening course.
Aug 12, 2008 at 10:49 a.m.
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puffer: Teachers need to continue to go so they keep there license. This is a bit different than you or I. I forget the exact amount of credits they need each year.
This has gone far off topic and I will no longer debate this.
Aug 12, 2008 at 10:30 a.m.
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Why is it any harder for teachers to go back to school than any other working person? I went back for my masters and am paying for it myself. I'm not rich by any means, I just make sacrifices. Personally I think it's easier since they have the summers open to be a full time student. Or they can go part time and have a part time job to supplement their income.
Aug 12, 2008 at 10:12 a.m.
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What about "ENGLISH" as this is the United States of America???
Aug 12, 2008 at 10:03 a.m.
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MOC0428,
Well, I can tell that you are not brilliant. You accused me of saying things I didn't say. Show me where I said "the education system shouldn't try to get better."
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The problem is that society doesn't have it's priorities straight. Which is more important, academics or athletics? I'd say invest less in athletics and more in academics. Keep the physical education class, but after school sports should be pay-to-play. Maybe the teacher's union should reimburse teachers for continuing education instead of giving money to political candidates. Personally, I would disband the teacher's union. This would eliminate the ones that aren't cut out to be teachers. It would also allow academic freedom instead of their current indoctrination agenda.
Next, I would allow school choice. Parents shouldn't be forced to send their kids to a particular school based on where they live. If parents think their children are getting a sub par education, they could send them to a different school.
Aug 12, 2008 at 9:26 a.m.
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DrTalk: Tell me what will happen to our education system if the teachers can't afford to go back to school. They miss out on all the great new methods of teaching etc....... Who will this impact?? The kids which is our future. You're right, the education system shouldn't try to get better. Let us slip into becoming a third world nation!!! You are brilliant!
Aug 12, 2008 at 8:56 a.m.
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lakennedy,
When I took Chinese, it was being taught at Beloit College by professor Bob LaFleur (I'm sorry if I butchered the spelling of the last name.) I believe it was technically a college level class, but taught differently from how it is taught in college. I graduated a semester early in my senior year so that I could go to boot camp early, so I never actually completed the class. My guess is that it would have definitely prepared me to continue learning Chinese in college though, it was a very rigorous course.
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As far as comparing Chinese to German goes... there is almost no comparison. Chinese is a tonal language, and you have to first understand tones, then master using them. I laugh every time I see a Chinese Fortune Cookie with the message inside stating, "Learn Chinese:..." You can not simply look at it without any accents or knowledge of the tones, and learn the words.
I lived in Japan for two years, and admittedly, I didn't try too hard to learn their language. I've been to Korea three times, and learned basic phrases over there. In all of my worldly experiences, Chinese is the toughest language I have tried to learn.
My suggestion would honestly be to move foreign language studies to a younger crowd before introducing a difficult language such as Chinese. Not only should foreign language studies be moved to younger kids in school, but availability should be increased. I was very upset when I wasn't allowed to take German in seventh grade (and consequently eighth grade also), I would like to see that never happen to any kid ever again.
Aug 12, 2008 at 8:53 a.m.
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MOC0428,
"you have the option of becoming a teacher"
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They chose their profession. They could have chosen to do something else.
Aug 12, 2008 at 8:38 a.m.
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I pay out of pocket for my education, too. It is very expensive, but the expenses provide neither motivation nor an excuse for me (or you) to withhold the funds necessary for teachers to do their jobs. The REAL costs behind an ill educated society are far more than any amount we're being asked for now.
Aug 12, 2008 at 8:34 a.m.
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Really? What other government funded profession requires out of pocket costs to complete the job? I'm assuming your arguments are based on an issue you have with the amount of money society pays for its teachers, and not a personal dislike of teachers in general, Dr. Talk. At least I'm hoping that's what your arguments are based on. I ask you, to please point out a profession that is more important to the success of a country than that of teaching. You pointed out in an earlier post the link to the documentary "Two Million Minutes." The documentary provides insight into a disturbing reality, to say the least. Since you are against helping teachers--the very people we depend on to create a competitive workforce in a global economy--, I ask you to please offer other options to help solve the problem.
Aug 12, 2008 at 8:31 a.m.
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"How much does a credit cost these days? I know for a masters credit it is $300 +. If you expect teachers to pay for all of their ongoing education out of pocket your nuts."
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Try investing in a 529 plan. I'm currently taking classes at $340 a credit and I do so at my own expense. I don't expect others to help me pay for it.
Aug 12, 2008 at 8:26 a.m.
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"Teachers may get a tax write off for the out of pocket costs, but it doesn't come close to the actual amount spent."
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Welcome to reality.
Aug 12, 2008 at 8:21 a.m.
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I began learning Chinese back in the ‘60s from Hop Sing on the TV show Bonanza. I learned words like ah-so and chop-chop. I had an adequate vocabulary to get by in those days, however, I didn’t continue my Chinese language education and I don’t think my current vocabulary would get me very far in a job interview if China runs this world.
Aug 12, 2008 at 8:21 a.m.
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thekai, it is my understanding that you took Mandarin Chinese for just one year, right? How did that one year prepare you for future studies of the language? For instance, you wanted to continue studying Chinese in college, would the one year provided to you through high school equipt you with a solid jumping off point?
Also,
How would you rate the level of difficulty if comparing Chinese to German?
Aug 12, 2008 at 8:14 a.m.
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I took Mandarin Chinese during my senior year at Craig.
I also took German all four years, two years of Spanish (but I skipped from Spanish 1 to Spanish 3), and one year of French.
They better not even think about cutting German...
Aug 12, 2008 at 7:47 a.m.
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Dr.Talk.
Your argument that the government is like a robber breaking into my house at night stealing hard earned money is nothing short of ridiculous.
I could use the same argument for ANY government spending I don't agree with.
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Teachers may get a tax write off for the out of pocket costs, but it doesn't come close to the actual amount spent.
Aug 12, 2008 at 7:34 a.m.
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DrTalk: And the tax break that I received for my wifes work really amounted to a hill of beans. I think I could deduct $100 dollars or something like that? That really helped us out! She spent more than our "dedcutible". C'mon man, at least be realistic with your argument.
Aug 12, 2008 at 7:31 a.m.
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DrTalk: What planet do you live on? As if $54K a year is a huge amount. There are plenty of teachers out there making far less than that. How much does a credit cost these days? I know for a masters credit it is $300 +. If you expect teachers to pay for all of their ongoing education out of pocket your nuts. It won't happen because $54K is really not all that much for what they do. What about the money they fork out for things in their class because the district can't afford everything? Don't be bitter at their salary (which isn't all that great) you have the option of becoming a teacher also. It is all part of living in America. There is a price to living in a free world and it's called TAXES!
Tim Cullen is doing the right thing here. I might second guess the language chosen but adding a language is a really good idea. Personally I would have liked to see American Sign Language but Chinese will do. I also liked the idea of Arabic.
Aug 12, 2008 at 7:19 a.m.
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"most teachers have to spend a LOT just on classroom supplies and materials for their own students"
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Yes, but they get a tax break because of it.
Aug 12, 2008 at 7:16 a.m.
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"The rest of the world is leaving us in the dust when it comes to preparing our students to compete in a global economy"
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You got that right, ssbuklin. Everyone should check out the documentary 2 Million Minutes.
http://www.2mminutes.com/
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You view clips of 2 Million Minutes on YouTube.
http://www.youtube.com/user/2MillionMinu...
Aug 12, 2008 at 2:13 a.m.
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I dont think any comment is needed here...
Aug 11, 2008 at 11:57 p.m.
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I believe all school districts should consider the addition of foreign languages such as Chinese or Arabic. French and German are important languages but are really not the languages that are important in today's world. Education needs to change with the times. The view that kids in Janesville should not be taught languages they won't use here is such as disservice to our students. I learned Spanish in the Janesville schools and worked in an international career that my family could never have imagined. Thank goodness I was not held back by small town attitude. We need to plan ahead and beyond Janesville. The rest of the world is leaving us in the dust when it comes to preparing our students to compete in a global economy.
Aug 11, 2008 at 10:33 p.m.
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Believe me, janesvillegirl, the community will be paying for it. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but sometime soon we'll all be paying for it. We need to arm the future generations with the necessary tools to lead this country.
Aug 11, 2008 at 9:58 p.m.
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if your child needs to learn Chinese send them to a private language school after regular school hours, let the parents pay for it, not the community
Aug 11, 2008 at 8:31 p.m.
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"If the average teacher salary is $54,500, taxpayers should not have to pay for them to continue their education. I guessing you must be a teacher. There are a lot of people in Janesville that would love to only work one job and make $54,500."
Yeah...but most teachers have to spend a LOT just on classroom supplies and materials for their own students. How many other jobs need the employee to purchase items in order to do their job?
Aug 11, 2008 at 8:27 p.m.
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Nutty...there are books on science and math and english that students could get too, that doesn't mean that they will.
If i remember correctly, forgive me if i'm wrong, but foreign languages are only mandatory for 7th and 8th graders. Beyond that, it becomes an elective course. ALTHOUGH, it's important to know that many colleges and universities require a certain minimum.
Aug 11, 2008 at 7:32 p.m.
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we should encourage people to learn to speak chinese fo sho. at the current pace it wont be long an theyll own us anyways....
Aug 11, 2008 at 7:18 p.m.
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I say skip adding a mandarin chinese and add a couple courses on 'respect', 'common sense' and 'accountability'. These classes I would fund! That will do a heck of alot more for our youth than a Mandarin Chinese class could EVER do.
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There is nothing stopping a student from learning any language they choose after school, on there own time and dime. Ever hear of Rosetta Stone?
Aug 11, 2008 at 6:39 p.m.
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lakennedy,
You voluntarily giving up your hard earned money to give to a teacher to continue his/her education is perfectly fine. What if somebody broke into your house in the middle of the night and stole your money, would that be OK? What if the robber told you he was going to give the money to a teacher to continued education? What the government does is basically the same thing as what the robber does. It might be legal theft, but it's still theft.
Aug 11, 2008 at 5:19 p.m.
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What about Arabic instead of Chinese? That way, if the High School students decide to go into the military, they could be interpreters. A lot more countries speak Arabic than Chinese.
Aug 11, 2008 at 3:55 p.m.
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Well, Dr.Talk, I'm one person in Janesville who is all for helping offset the cost of continuing education for teachers.
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I see in the blog entries below a lot of opposition to the idea of Chinese being taught in our schools. Snarly, writes "no why pay for a person to teach a language that the kids will not use in janesville" I don't care where you are from, or where you are going. The ability to communicate with ANYONE is amazing. It is power that you cannot imagine. I see comments referring to the fact that China is communist, and for some reason (which eludes me), this is justification for not teaching Chinese in our schools. If you've got such a huge issue with communist China, I suggest you instruct our country to stop borrowing money from them. We've borrowed nearly a trillion dollars from a country that the majority of American's can't locate on a map, let alone speak to. China's ability to industrialize should show you that it is a force to be reckoned with. It is a country we need to learn how to communicate with, not segregate ourselves from. Mr. Cullen is on to something here. Regardless of your political beliefs, do not make the mistake of thinking that the ability to communicate is extremely necessary to the survival of any society.
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Also, I'd like to touch on the fact that French is still being taught in our schools. I took French in high school. Want to know how many times I've used it? Zero. Want to know how many times I'd wished I had taken Spanish? At least 1000. While I believe there is value in learning to communicate with any society, regardless of their economic standing, it is quite obvious that there is a need to prioritize when it comes to what is being taught in our schools. We simply cannot afford to carry every language. If I had to vote on what would be most beneficial to our society in general, I'd vote Chinese.
Aug 11, 2008 at 3:18 p.m.
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biggirl,
If the average teacher salary is $54,500, taxpayers should not have to pay for them to continue their education. I guessing you must be a teacher. There are a lot of people in Janesville that would love to only work one job and make $54,500.
Aug 11, 2008 at 11:49 a.m.
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As a family which just hosted an English teacher from Chongqing, China in an exchange program, we highly support the addition of ANY academic programs to the Janesville schools. We learned from Wu Tong that the students in China (mainly PUBLIC boarding schools) have a class-day that goes from 8am-10pm (albeit 3 hour lunch and shorter dinner time). Sad (shameful!) the Gazette didn't cover the visit of the Chinese teachers and their students. There are both many similarities and differences between today's Chinese Communism and US Democracy. The ideals of both are usually quite different than the daily application with both with capitalistic economies. There can be a LOT of MYTH-BUSTING going when people TALK directly to one another and dismiss nationalistic propaganda from governments that create barriers to cultural understanding and international goodwill between people. The more people can communicate directly to one another, the more hopeful future for the entire world. If the Janesville School District is having difficulty finding a qualified teacher, we know one!
Aug 11, 2008 at 11:18 a.m.
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Regardless of them being communist or not, the U.S. owes a lot of money to China. I'd hate to see any languages cut, but I feel adding Chinese is important too. Too bad everything costs so much.
Aug 11, 2008 at 11:09 a.m.
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I just skimmed the article but wasn't there just an article on CUTTING programs in Janesville and now they want to ADD another? Hmmmmm. I'm confused. They want to spend more money on adding another program but cut budgets for existing programs? Goodness, what's wrong with this school board?!?!?
Aug 10, 2008 at 10:18 p.m.
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no why pay for a person to teach a language that the kids will not use in janesville it is bad enough that we are loosing money with people leaving the area wake up people.
Aug 10, 2008 at 11:02 a.m.
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It's sad, so sad, that the only justification for language classes is economic. Real knowledge of languages -- any languages -- has been shown to improve all sorts of reading, writing, and critical thinking skills. Whatever language you learn, however, has to be learned in-depth; thus, any plan for online courses or for a hodgepodge of languages here and there (in p.e., for example) will not have the required benefits.
On a different note, I am a little disturbed that when discussing education, no one discusses teacher's continuing education. Couldn't we work with an existing teacher and educate her in Mandarin. She could be paid to take courses at Whitewater, to enter one of the summer immersion programs next year or even go to China. A couple of years and she would be more than competent to teach Mandarin, and with continuing education after that, she can even become fully fluent in subsequent years.
Aug 9, 2008 at 2:52 p.m.
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Does Tim Cullen understand that China is a communist country? Does he realize that 10 years from now, China may not even be a factor in the world economy because of their political situation? Does he realize that Chinese is spoken in ONE country, while French is spoken in over 40 countries in 5 continents? Does Tim Cullen stop to think about anything he proposes?
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