Does poverty = crime? Scholars disagree
JANESVILLE — Stacey Williams didn’t think she had a choice when she turned to a life of crime.
She grew up in poverty, and her mom abandoned her when she was 15, she said. She dropped out of school in eighth grade.
She started dating a 36-year-old man and living like him and his friends. She got involved in drugs, fights and shady dealings.
“I was like, ‘Oh, that’s the people I want to be like because I just saw they had nice cars and stuff,” she said.
But that life led Stacey into trouble. She spent her 17th birthday in jail on charges that included driving a stolen vehicle and possession of marijuana.
Stacey, 18, first told her story to the Gazette in May from the House of Mercy homeless shelter.
Stories such as hers might make people assume that poverty goes hand-in-hand with crime, but that’s not necessarily the case, said Melissa Deller, a sociology and criminal justice professor at UW-Whitewater.
Scholars disagree about how much poverty affects crime rates, if it does at all. While many poor people turn to crime, and many people with criminal records have trouble escaping poverty, the two aren’t hopelessly linked.
Rather, it’s the setbacks and disadvantages that often come with poverty, more than poverty itself, that affect crime rates, experts say.
Deller has found a weak connection between poverty and crime in her studies, she said. If poverty automatically led to crime, then crime rates would rise when poverty rates rise, and the world’s poorest nations would also be the world’s most crime-ridden, she said. Neither is the case.
“It gets caught up in a big myth, that poor people are more likely to do crime, and it’s a fallacy,” she said.
That myth could make people overlook criminals from the middle- and upper-classes, she said. While people in poverty might commit crimes of desperation, white-collar criminals often commit crimes of opportunity.
Deller found that factors often associated with poverty could affect a community’s crime rate more than simple income levels. Those factors include:
-- Housing values and conditions.
-- Education levels.
-- Chronic unemployment.
Add broken homes to that list, said Capt. Dan Davis of the Janesville Police Department. Studies have shown that children of single-parent homes are more likely to both live in poverty and commit crimes.
At least two of those factors are present in Stacey’s story: She dropped out of school and came from a troubled home.
Several people living in poverty who were interviewed for this series have criminal records. Others chose to live clean lives, though they are often affected by crimes committed by loved ones or crimes committed against them. People in poverty are more likely than others to be the victims of crime because they don’t have the resources to protect themselves, Deller said.
Those with criminal records said their pasts have hindered them as they try to make fresh starts and move out of poverty.
Mike Easton, 27, grew up in foster homes and group homes. He got into trouble as a youth and served time in prison for felony theft. Today, he and his family struggle with unemployment and homelessness.
“Before I went to prison, I was—I don’t know how you want to say it—a creep,” he said. “I was no good, ya know?”
Since Mike left prison, he has tried to turn his life around and support his wife and children, but it’s been difficult. It’s hard for him to find and keep jobs, and it’s tempting to turn back to his old ways.
“It seems like the more and more I try to succeed and to prove myself, not to go back to how I used to be, to drink all the time and go out and party and whatnot, I feel like I keep failing,” he said. “I’ll do good for so long, and something will happen with my job … and I just come down on myself.”
Still, Mike’s family inspires him to stay straight and persevere, he said.
As for Stacey, her time in jail made her decide to change her ways, she said.
“I was like, ‘This is not where I want to be when I’m older’ because I saw people (in jail) who were 30, 40 years old,” she said. “I don’t want to be in jail when I’m that old.”
She struggled with alcoholism when she got out of jail, but a new boyfriend convinced her to give up drinking and find a job, she said. She left the House of Mercy in May to move in with her temporary employer, a local painter.
Since then, life has been good for Stacey, she said. When her temporary job ended, she moved into a three-bedroom rented house with her boyfriend. She got a job in July with a moving company.
She hopes to attend the Rock River Charter School eventually to earn her high school diploma.
“I’m doing a lot better now,” she said.
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Chad Sullivan knows all about poverty and crime in Janesville.
The police officer spent four years as the Wilson Elementary School neighborhood resource officer.
Wilson is by far the poorest school in the district; 96 percent of its students were eligible for free or reduced lunch in 2006-07. The school draws students from the Fourth Ward and Look West neighborhoods.
Police don’t track crime by neighborhood, but Sullivan believes some crimes are more prevalent in neighborhoods such as the Wilson school zone where people live in poverty, he said.
“Crime, I would say, is very directly related to poverty,” he said. “If you don’t have money, you can’t buy food, and stability is not there...
“Theft, burglary, it’s just all intertwined together.”
Sullivan also saw alcohol and drug abuse in the neighborhood, he said.
While addiction exists all over the city, Sullivan believes it’s especially a problem for people in poverty. Many addicts might have started out middle class but ended up in poverty when they gave up everything for drugs.
Others turn to alcohol or drugs because they are depressed about their situations, he said.
He said drug traffickers try to recruit underprivileged young people to sell drugs by making it seem like a lucrative opportunity.
“It seems like a likely target of big dealers to get these people who are a little bit less fortunate, have less money—they’re easy targets to become dealers,” he said.
But Sullivan also saw improvement during his time in the Fourth Ward and Look West neighborhoods. The police department has worked with residents to clean up problems and increased patrols there.
Sullivan helped residents get needed resources, whether it was food assistance or financial aid to send their kids to summer camp. His job wasn’t just to reduce crime but to help people overcome poverty, he said.
“I’m eliminating the barrier, whatever that might be,” he said. “The fact that they don’t have a telephone. They don’t have a car to get there. They don’t know how to read or write.”
The department eliminated the neighborhood resource position in 2007 for budget reasons. Sullivan is now the department’s court officer, serving as a liaison between the department and the Rock County Courthouse.
He misses his time in the Wilson neighborhood but believes the police department is still doing an effective job there, he said.
“Those neighborhoods are a lot, a lot better,” he said.
Dec 29, 2009 at 3:31 p.m.
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Frogger- Government social programs, which aim to alleviate all of society's ills, have only had a negative influence on our society. They send a message that you need not rise above your socioeconomic status because we the Fed (safety nets will catch you repeatedly) will take care of you. How long have we fought the war on poverty? 30-40 plus years? Have we won yet? Just imagine how much more comfortable this nation would be if we had not spend trillions on wars and social welfare spending.
Dec 29, 2009 at 3:07 p.m.
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I believe it is also a choice. You shouldn't be doing drugs if you cannot get food on the table. Try exercise if you're so depressed.
Other than that it seems a lot has been covered already. Stop using the Government for all the free stuff and try to rise above this and fend for yourself. I am not sure how you can feel good about yourself living off the Government when you are able to work. I call this stealing as well. Don't get me wrong some need help for some time but to continually do this when you're able to work is stealing. To teach this life to your kids isn't right either!
Dec 29, 2009 at 2:14 p.m.
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It does not matter where you come from, all that maters is where you begin. People's futures should not be dictated by their background but by their will to be successful.
Sep 10, 2009 at 9:39 p.m.
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No way in heck there are this many "scholars" in Janesville!
Sep 10, 2009 at 12:32 p.m.
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If one has always been poor, no, probably not. If one watches a lot of television and sees what he or she is missing, perhaps. If one had money and lost it, yes - they become very dangerous.
Sep 10, 2009 at 12:17 p.m.
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I agree that most of our children would grow up as responsible adults if given the chance. But how? In a home with no power and lights? A home with no food to feed them? They themselves can't go to Echo and get food, they can go to a friends house and maybe get a nibble. I know alot of my kids friends were that way, they would come to our house and eat like they never have before. And I let them. I also was low income, but to me as a single parent who raised 3 responsible adults, I never had to resort to crime. I also had a caring family, which alot of these poor citizens do not. Applaud the lady, who this weekend on the 12th is having a winter coat drive. If you need one, you get a coat, hat, gloves and boots. 220 St. Lawrence across from the courthouse and if you have any to give to the drive they can be taken there at any time. We need more things like this for our poorest in Janesville. It is only going to get worse!
May 12, 2009 at 8:57 a.m.
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criminals come from every walk of life, it would be easy to blame poverty as the reason why there are so many criminals but with the way things are these days there is a story of every type of person getting in trouble, whether it be drugs, murder, sex offenders.
May 12, 2009 at 7:32 a.m.
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Criminal behavior is not a mental illness. Every child at some point in his/her life takes something that belongs to someone else. (stealing) Parents paying attention, see this, discuss with the child why they should not do this and sanction them if the behavior continues. These kids learn, stealing is wrong. Later if they choose to steal they know it is wrong, they just choose to do it. Poverty may come into play by thier circumstances making it seem like stealing is necessary, or everyone is doing it, or I didn't get a fair deal so I should even the score. But these people are not subject to a "mental illness". Scholars also have a statistic relating to the breadth of criminal activity, 90% of adult men have done something in their lifetime that would be classified as a felony. The majority of them simply were not caught.
Sep 5, 2008 at 1:47 p.m.
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When I worked as a teacher for the WI DOC (in a prison) I remember a young man telling me the first time he skipped school he was picked up by an older man from his community in a limo. They went out and sold/used drugs and it was all over for him.
Many of us who were fortuate enough to grow up in middle class families and neighborhoods were never offered the opportunity to make some quick, big money while riding around in a limo instead of attending school.
Kids who skipped at my HS spent the time taking a longer lunch or maybe taking a smoking break. riding in a limo while selling drugs was never a real option.
many 14 year olds would struggle with the idea of being about to make literally $100's if not a $1000 dollars in an afternoon if they knew they could.
Sometimes not knowing makes you not a criminal.
Sep 5, 2008 at 12:58 p.m.
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lakennedy, your comment: "Optimism: What, or more to the point Who, do you suppose is responsible for raising this generation of "unmotivated lazy kids who have had everything handed to them"? They didn't raise themselves." makes me cringe. Quite honestly, there are too many unmotivated, lazy kids...and sadly, many live in poverty. They see their parents (mostly single) working really hard to make ends meet, but they still go without what some, better off families would consider "necessities". I think there are too many kids who ARE raising themselves. The parent works 2 jobs or is so exhausted from working mandatory overtime AND working on keeping up with cooking, laundry and grocery shopping, etc. to have the "extra" energy required to instill core values into their children and keep up with what's going on in their children's lives, who their kids are hanging out with, etc.
I'm not making excuses for the criminals; I'm advocating on behalf of (mostly) women who are trying to make it in a "man's world" and have to do it with a smile.
No, I don't think poverty=crime; however, I think criminal thinking and taking the easy way out looks tempting to a tired, over-worked and under-paid working woman. And makes more people cynical about ever achieving the "American Dream". It's just too far out of their reach, no matter how hard they try.
Sep 5, 2008 at 11:33 a.m.
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Enron, OJ, George W. Bush, Martha Stewart, the mom who killed her kids in the bathtub a few years back, and heck, even Columbine.
Plenty of rich, filthy rich commit much more serious crimes than those of the poor. They get better lawyers or use executive priviledge to hide their crimes.
Remember, the rich get richer the poor get prison.
Sep 5, 2008 at 11:06 a.m.
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Poverty will lead to crime some parents will do whatever it takes to feed their children as I know I would think about it before I would let my children go hungry............
Sep 3, 2008 at 12:39 p.m.
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lakekennedy,
I'm with you on that! Kids need to be taught the proper values and they first need to know what "value" is. A great teaching tool is for them to "earn". Reward them for their efforts. It's also important to praise them along the way. Kids (as well as adults) are never going to be perfect, but, if we find the positive in everything they attempt to accomplish and build on that, it's a win-win!
That same approach should be exercised amongst the adults as well. Everyone has good inside of them. Find that good and build on it rather than look for the negative which our society is so accustomed to doing.
Sep 1, 2008 at 7:17 p.m.
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Kleej: In response to your request for ideas, I think that it would be a tremendous benefit for future generations for parents to remember one thing:
It is completely natural for parents to want more for their children. All parents want their children to have opportunities/possessions that they themselves didn't have. I think it would be extremely beneficial for parens to remember that just because you can provide your kids with these things, it doesn't mean that you should. It isn't helping your children in the long run to satisfy their every whim, and it definitley isn't benefiting society. Instilling a strong work ethic and the ability to think is by far and away the strongest tool you can give your child.
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Optimism, I think that society would be better off if parents took a page out of your book.
Aug 29, 2008 at 1:06 p.m.
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Great posts, optimism and Darius. We have a responsibility to think about how we think and to consider how our thoughts and actions effect others.
Aug 28, 2008 at 9:50 p.m.
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Darius...you hit it right on the head. I am living proof that if your lesson is not learned, you will keep repeating the same pattern until it is learned. The light bulb came on one day when I was like, ok, somethings not working here, I need to figure this out. And with much pondering and hard work, I figured it out! Now, I take every eperience I have as a learning one. My husband thinks I am too deep sometimes, but I truly love being in tune with the why's of my actions. (I do admit though, sometimes it can create a bit of anxiety)....Seriously though, if lifes lessons aren't learned, I am willing to bet whoever lacks the knowledge will be here to repeat the same miserable existence until they "get it". That is when we exit this world peacefully.
Aug 27, 2008 at 9:23 a.m.
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gazettefan
Correct! It's called confronting brutal reality! The lesson will always be repeated until the lesson is learned. Learn from the mistakes and don't repeat them. I believe the majority of people feel this way, however, they're not taught the proper values as a child and carry this into their adult life. People don't know what they don't know.... People need to be properly educated! They first and foremost need to be taught that there is a definite "right" and a definite "wrong". (The new age intellects would beg to differ with that) These principles are non-negotiable, just as the way we raise our generations of children. With all of the media readily available for people, perception has become reality in many minds. It's scary to think that alot of the perceptions made are based on total lies and fiction, yet, our children are accepting everything as truth! Where's the parents? What happens when the parents are raised under the same perception? We're losing our generations. Our kids need to know their history! READING is key!
We don't have enough time in our lifetime to learn how to avoid mistakes based on our own wisdom. Why not learn from other people who have been there who can walk others through that "mine field"??? John Wooden, for example....98 years of wisdom all condensed into a 2 hour read -VS- "Married With Children" reruns everyday???? It's a no-brainer!
Aug 27, 2008 at 8:50 a.m.
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The only way someone makes a positive change is to take responsibility for their bad decisions.
Aug 27, 2008 at 8:24 a.m.
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You know, even though it has been a few days (weeks actually) that the gazette has been covering the effects of poverty, I have come to a new conclusion. With all of these aticles being written on the poverty stricken, and the behavoir that follows, it is almost as if these people that choose to "just get by" and milk the system and turn to a life of crime, are actually being given the message that what they are doing is ok. The "scholors" and other professionals that are interviewed for these stories always give reasons why these people turn to the behavoirs they do, therefore, there is an excuse put in motion. I must stress that I do believe that all people do things out of character for a reason....whatever that reason is varies, but I tend to think that people are not criminals out of choice, it is a consequence of some sort of mental illness. But we need not feel "sorry" for these people, we need to encourage them. Feeling sorry for someone only enables their behavoir. Of course education is the key here, and without the encouragement of parents who may be to drugged out to be an active role model in a childs life, education get's left out. So, what I think needs to be done, is remove these troubled children from these homes....require that the parents be "cleaned up", trained on money management and then be given a chance at parenthood. If the parents are dysfunctional, which many are in poverty stricken neighborhoods as this officer stated, there is no amount of work the school staff can do to turn children's life around if it isn't re-inforced at home. That is how this cycle is able to continue. It has to stop at the source.
Aug 27, 2008 at 7:25 a.m.
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I must insist, low intelligence and anti-social personality traits tend to result in criminal behavior. While much energy is expended committing crimes of all kinds, that energy cannot be easily re-channeled toward socially acceptable behavior. Poverty can be an aggravating factor. Ultimately each of us have to take responsibility for his or her actions.
Much of the "profit" from criminal activity is regularly spent on lawyers and other expenses that result from such behavior. Low-intelligence and anti-social traits, depending on severity, result in a continual cycle of criminal activity and spending money to stay out of jail. The less "successful" criminals are in and out of jail on a regular basis.
There's nothing intelligent or sympathetic about this sort of life.
Aug 26, 2008 at 9:48 a.m.
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KB0740......Boy...I see what you are saying. A theif has a reason for doing what they do, and they must be hurting, and need help...a hard worker has things by the sweat of their brow....they must just be greedy. You surely made a valid point. Although, I choose to believe that it is in human nature to be a good person, and that some sort of dysfunction in the mind makes a person do things out of the "human Character", but there are way too many that take that compassion and use it to their advantage that is for sure.
Aug 25, 2008 at 11:25 p.m.
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Everyone is entitled to a free education up to the 12th grade. Then there are student loans, military service, peace corp, scholarships, for those who are motivated to improve themselves. It seems like everyone is more willing to forgive a thief then reward a hard worker who as achieved some success.
Aug 25, 2008 at 10:43 p.m.
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WOW !! How nice. An intelligent, kind, compassionate, positive, and thought-provoking discussion, which hopefully will be read and appreciated by many. THANK YOU.
Aug 25, 2008 at 7:39 p.m.
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As well as pray that our country can unite and have the same goals in mind. I really see prayer as a valuable tool. And it doesn't cost a thing....
Aug 25, 2008 at 7:38 p.m.
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I wish more people would look outside their own lives, and see that we as a community need to help eachother and not only worry about ourselves. I for one am making a committment this holiday season to donate my time to the less fortuneate, that is a start.
Aug 25, 2008 at 5:33 p.m.
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I agree with your points here. Again, how do parents teach their children right from wrong when so many of the parents doing the teaching nowadays have been raised in that false reality world? TV, Video games, Internet. etc.
This site has definately exposed the situation we face and I think there's been alot of great insight as to the problem's we face. Now, it's time to redeem culture....... suggestions? Tip: It's not gonna happen over nite!
Aug 25, 2008 at 4:54 p.m.
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lakennedy.....you are so right.....and is just makes me mad at the lack of parenting. I raise my kids responsibly, and they must earn what they have and shop second hand or on sale racks. So I know my children will hopefully be assets to society, but with the entitlement most kids of today have because mom and dad were able to spoil (we could spoil too, but choose not to) or wanted to spoil just to get them out of their hair, that is what is going to ruin our economy. When real life sets in, these kids are going to be like deer in headlights. And all the parents that created them are going to be sitting and lacking social security etc....due to their own doing.
Aug 25, 2008 at 4:16 p.m.
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Optimism: What, or more to the point Who, do you suppose is responsible for raising this generation of "unmotivated lazy kids who have had everything handed to them"? They didn't raise themselves.
Aug 25, 2008 at 3:58 p.m.
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optimism
That's why the decisions WE make today have to be the right decisions based on pure, core value principled thinking. If we choose to do nothing, those will be the results we're going to achieve. NOTHING. If that's what people are content with and are willing to allow to happen, that's their right and they have no business complaining about their environment around them. We create our own environment, let's get it right!
Aug 25, 2008 at 3:42 p.m.
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What is truly scary to me is the generation of kids that are soon to be the economy's leaders are a bunch of lazy, unmotivated kids who have had everything handed to them, and have no sense of the dollar bill, or have been given the legacy of take whatever you want, you deserve it, working for it is too hard. I am frightened of what our world will be like in another 20-30 years.
Aug 25, 2008 at 3:39 p.m.
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KLEEJ.....AHHHHH, I gotcha now. Yes, now I totally agree with you. At the end of the day, (or life) all we can really count on is our own integrety. And that is something that isn't up for sale in my life, unfortuneately, it is in some. No, money can't buy you your health, friends, honor, integrety or pride. And I pity the people that put money fore first in their life, because I am quite certain that at the end of their life, they will have a lot of unfinished business that will get in the way of a peaceful exit. I would much rather live a guilt free existence than graveling at my superiors feet. And I firmly believe, that where there is a will, there is ALWAYS a way. AND NO it isn't always easy, but I tell you what the things I have faught for in my life, are the things I cherish the most. Easy street never gets a person past the point of a materialistic exsistance.
Aug 25, 2008 at 3:27 p.m.
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janesvillemom
I also believe it's a travesty because it's happening on OUR watch! We can't use the excuse that a certain president is responsible or a certain group of people in the past made this happen....WE need to own up to the reality that WE need to do more. We need to get this right because we have generations of people counting on us. If we don't step up, who will? It's on us. Failure isn't even an option.
Aug 25, 2008 at 3:01 p.m.
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I agree with Kleej and Darius that our country has been sold out from under us. Sometimes I think we'll soon be back to the Dicken's era of Mr. Scrooge and Bob Cratchitt. Where even the hard working people have to beg for healthcare for Tiny Tim and enough coal to warm their office.
Aug 25, 2008 at 1:27 p.m.
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optimism~
That was a valid point you make. I wasn't trying to say it's acceptable to compromise principles for success. What I meant was the thinking in today's culture has changed so much that many accept it as "just the way it is". You're exactly right. It's an excuse! If compromising my principles and selling out my integrity and character is a requirement to get ahead, I'll pass. Unfortunately, the Corporate American mindset doesn't match that. That's what I was trying to say.
Here's my opinion of Corporate America: It's not a win-win for everyone. The deck is stacked in favor of those who are willing to sell out their integrity. The direction of this country is being dictated by self serving thugs who's interest isn't in the well being of this country, but, in the well being of their own interests. Money and power.
It's made it an uphill climb for people who choose to live a principled life and be successful in the corporate world. In my opinion, the most successful people are the people who put honor and duty first and foremost in their lives. Faith, family, finance. Money doesn't buy anyone happiness, yet many people are under the belief it does. It's what you can do with that money to help make a positive difference in others lives who are less fortunate than you that defines your true wealth. Serve others with an open heart and you will be rewarded many times over, I believe!
Put it this way. When I die, what's the most important thing I can leave my children and the people who knew me? Money or a long lasting legacy? If people think about that question and do the right things, WE THE PEOPLE of this country can turn this mindset around and reach many wondeful people in our communities who just need a chance. Most people are worthy, they just don't realize it because they've never even been told so!
Aug 25, 2008 at 12:58 p.m.
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poverty and living a life in crime all depends on how the person who is dealing with the poverty issue. like most people they would think that its just a rough time and they will get through it. but for some they stay in it their whole lives. people wonder why most people sell drugs/do them its to get away from the fact that they may be poor or have little or no money. they like to feel like they are on top of the world. i for one would like to feel like im a great marketer or wahtever. but it just all depends on what the persons outlook on life is. and how they deal with it
Aug 25, 2008 at 12:48 p.m.
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KLEEJ...I disagree with you. A person is only "controlled" by this corporate driven world if they allow the morals they carry to be sacrificed. This example you give only makes me think immediately that you are giving yet another "excuse" to do something wrong. (my opinion, this is what makes sense in my mind, I am not attacking you.)
Aug 25, 2008 at 12:44 p.m.
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This is simply put. No not ALL poverty stricken are criminals, but I do believe that when drugs and alcohol become a part of the poverty life, crime is soon after. People become the slave of the drug and will do WHATEVER it takes to get that drug. We can bring in all the "research specialists" in the world, but the truth remains that most criminals are poor. (they may be temporarily "rich" from their hits) I believe the hearts of people interviewing these people get in the way of logical research. And all I have to say is that if we thought the crime rate was bad before, just wait, the economy is creating more unemployed addicts and desparate people to provide for their families, and I can guarentee that the crime rates will only rise.
Aug 25, 2008 at 12:13 p.m.
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pwrtrip
I see what you mean. The part that burns me is the fact that we live in a society in which it's getting harder and harder to apply good principles and use good moral valued thinking and get ahead in this corporate driven society we live in. The corporate world promotes being "selfish" and not "selfless". It's basically teaching our people that integrity and character won't help you get ahead in this day and age. The only way to become successful it seems is to compromise what is right to get what you want anymore. This is how people have become desensitized and dummed down to what's going on out there. There is right and wrong, unfortunately, right has been compromised by the wrong to serve a specific agenda. Usually, a money driven act. Money and power.
Aug 25, 2008 at 10:29 a.m.
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The rich like the fact that the poor have this stigma attached to them. It takes the focus off them. Especially the wealthy who's selfish agenda promotes poverty and despair. The majority of the wealthy in our culture, get wealthy at the poor people's expense. The gap is widening everyday too. Less and less middle class which equals more poor. The wealthy love this because the more people with less to fight with equals more power for them. The deck just keeps getting stacked against the middle class and the poor.
Aug 25, 2008 at 10:20 a.m.
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This is an easy question to answer since the biggest crooks in American history exist in Corporate America. Take a look around you folks. 99% of this country has debt. More bankruptcy's recorded over the past 4 years than college diploma's. Only 1% of the people in the U.S. make 100/K per year. The wealthy crooks in corporate America own this country! They've got most of the bases covered now. The most successful tool they have to work in their favor is the American conscience! The "vehicle" for that is the TV! The TV is America's conscience and these corporate thugs know it. The problem is, the majority of the citizens of this country DON'T, and those who do, won't admit it. If people don't believe that, how and why are the 5 biggest media companies on the planet owned by, you guessed it, Corporate America!! We have a govt. that's selling us out too because they're in bed with these goons. It all boils down to integrity and leadership. We have none. The TV and publications sure paint a pretty picture of it, but, that's what "they" want us to see. They want the poor to stay poor. They don't want people actually having hope or thinking they can actually get ahead in life. It wouldn't be profitable for them. Power perceived, is power achieved. What happened to the citizens of the U.S. owning this country? We've been robbed and taught to trade our freedoms for a false sense of security! Saddest part of this whole thing, it's happened on OUR WATCH! Shame on us.
Aug 25, 2008 at 10:03 a.m.
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Pwrtrip:
What you write may be true, but the point of the article is not that all crime is done by the poor or that all criminals live among the poor. You're also right to point out that the economic class of criminals very often dictates how they are treated, not just by the press but by the criminal justice system as well.
The point I was trying to make is that since most property crime is petty, with the crime treated as a violation being usually little more than the equivalent of a traffic ticket due to the small monetary value of the loss, those with a propensity to commit such crimes live in poverty themselves.
Aug 25, 2008 at 9:06 a.m.
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villajanesville:
My previous comment was not directed at you.
Aug 25, 2008 at 9:04 a.m.
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Yet more sanctimony from that multi-degreed despiser of everything Janesvillian. How pitifully jaded you are.
Aug 25, 2008 at 8:55 a.m.
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I don't have a sociology degree; I just make this stuff up.
Aug 25, 2008 at 8:37 a.m.
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JohnDoe:
I hope you noticed that I did not claim that criminals are all unintelligent. There are many very intelligent people with no motivation to do anything constructive and some of them turn to crime as an easy way to get by. I do fully agree with this statement that you wrote, "The ironic part is that if they redirected their intelligence and ambition, they could probably earn more with less effort."
Aug 25, 2008 at 8:31 a.m.
Aug 25, 2008 at 8:31 a.m.
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Wow..I never realized how many Janesville folks had sociology degrees.
Aug 25, 2008 at 8:06 a.m.
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The kind of crime in question re: the story is the kind of crime we worry about the most. The kind of crime that puts our family, friends, property and us under all forms of attack.
Aug 25, 2008 at 7:54 a.m.
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Does poverty equate to crime, not necessarily. If so the great depresson would have been the pinicle of crime in our nations history yet crime rates at the time were relativly low. The reason can be attributed to two things. Strong 2 parent familes and the stablizing presence of relgion in most americans lives. I don't have stats to quote you, but I bet if you go into any slum, ghetto, or project in the country you'll find 2/3's to 3/4's of the familes headed by a single parent and a small percentage that attend church regularily. Factor in the overabundance of drugs, lack of economic opportunity (cause what company wants there business in a crime riden area) and an ingrained culture of entitlement and you have a recipe for the tearing down of a community.
Aug 25, 2008 at 7:33 a.m.
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Scholars know very little and have very little street knowledge if any at all. They sit in big offices and produce papers and studies based on others crime figures. Much like proffessors who get huge salaries and do very little if any actual class room teaching. T/A's do the teaching. Poverty and crime are hand in hand and this comes from 24 years of boots on the ground experience. It boils down to the scholars and big money criminal justice backers who keep their head in the sand to keep the entity going for the sake of jobs. The story about the single parent in poverty yet her frig had more BEER and SODA in it than food. It about priorities and chiild rearing. If one can't afford one child why in the world would one have three more!! Until we raise the poverty level and the minimum wage which the politicians and big money people don't want either because then others may live better, things will out the same for those high living money people.
Aug 25, 2008 at 7:28 a.m.
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Low intelligence and anti-social personality traits tend to result in criminal behavior. While much energy is expended committing crimes of all kinds, that energy cannot be easily re-channeled toward socially acceptable behavior. Poverty can be an aggravating factor. Ultimately each of us have to take responsibility for his or her actions.
Much of the "profit" from criminal activity is regularly spent on lawyers and other expenses that result from such behavior. Low-intelligence and anti-social traits, depending on severity, result in a continual cycle of criminal activity and spending money to stay out of jail. The less "successful" criminals are in and out of jail on a regular basis.
There's nothing intelligent about this sort of life.
Aug 24, 2008 at 11:47 p.m.
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right-on billnewbie!......by the way john doe, that's a myth. most, but not all criminals are actually stupid! many people choose poverty. i know that will be hard for liberals to understand but it is the honest truth.
Aug 24, 2008 at 10:11 p.m.
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"There are very few well educated and ambitious criminals."
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Au contraire, there are many. The ironic part is that if they redirected their intelligence and ambition, they could probably earn more with less effort.
Aug 24, 2008 at 7:14 p.m.
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The question may just as well be "does crime = poverty?”
There are very few well educated and ambitious criminals. They live in poorer areas because that is what their limited skills afford them since most crimes are relatively petty and not very lucrative and criminals have little ambition to do anything else.
Aug 24, 2008 at 6:45 p.m.
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Janesvillian.... As I stated, a correlation is often a strong connection. Such as that between poverty and crime. It does not, however, guarantee cause and effect. Extraneous variables can lead to erroneous correlations such as my analogy of rape and ice cream. The extraneous correlating variable being the season of the year. The correlation between poverty and crime or race and crime is real, but is often created by such extraneous variables, such as more of a police presence in poor or minority neighborhoods.
Aug 24, 2008 at 5:26 p.m.
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NVgrf, "a weak connection" is something that is statistically defined. You may anecdotally have different opinion, but you haven't crunched the numbers the way that Deller and other researchers have.
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A social scientist named Felton Earls has studied neighborhoods in Chicago for decades, giving him the opportunity to see how long-term trends affect things like crime. Crime isn't correlated strongly with race, for example, nor with household income. This mirrors Deller's findings. One of the most important factors turns out to be what social scientists call "collective efficacy", that is, the ability of a group to work together. If a neighborhood has a good social network, it will have less crime. Neighborhoods with high transience and people disconnected from one another will have more crime.
http://crab.rutgers.edu/~goertzel/Collec...
Aug 24, 2008 at 12:19 p.m.
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I would tend to put more confidence in the opinion of the JPD than I would the scholars. Gathering and reviewing statistical data can't take into account the human element.
It is a tragedy that the Resource Officer position at Wilson School had to end. They do good work at the schools, and if even one kid was kept from a life of crime due to a school resource officer's influence in that child's life, it pays for itself.
Aug 24, 2008 at 11:02 a.m.
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"a weak connection between poverty and crime" ??? There is a direct correlation between these two variables. A very strong connection. But, of course, that does not always indicate cause and effect. There is also a direct correlation between ice cream sales and the number of rapes in America. That is a strong "connection". I don't think I will be taking Deller's class real soon.
Aug 24, 2008 at 8:57 a.m.
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Absolutely true; crime is not just for the poor. It reminds me of Michael Crichton's "Great Train Robbery", because people were so shocked that a wealthy man had robbed the train (based on a true story I think).
Also on an international scale, contrary to popular opinion, Muslim terrorists are disproportionately college educated people.
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