I don't have a crappy attitude regarding teachers. And yes, my daughter is in a local high school and if you had read my posts you would know that. Maybe that's the problem, you are only seeing and reading what is convenient. How you as a teacher manage to keep our tax dollars or the portion alloted our daughter/son as a resident of this city, is by continuing to support and vote for candidates that are catering to you in regards to this area. Your union and your democratic party candidates fight legislation all the way to protect your and this city's financial interest in having my children be a part of this school system. You may not make the laws yourself, but you do contribute to them in this manner.

WHAT?!?! "if my child is more important to teachers than anything else, then why doesn't my tax dollars follow my child? I mean, wouldn't that be the fair and logical thing to do? Why do teachers vote constantly to keep my child from their rightful portion of tax dollars to be schooled? If teachers were truly more interested in my son/daughter's well being, then they would be totally for him/her going to a school that was better equipped to meet his/her needs. Instead it always comes down to the dollars. Get my point?"

I'm afraid I don't get your point.
The last time I checked it was my job to teach the children that I have. To make sure that each one succeeds in their learning. Teachers don't make policies on taxes and what schools students go to. How is deciding on tax dollars and school choice my job? If my main concern is all about $ than why am I a 15+ year teacher living in an apartment raising a child and barely has a pot to p!$$ in?

Do you actually have children that have gone to school? Or did you home school? What a shame you have such a crappy attitude about teachers.

I totally agree with momof5 - kids need to learn how to adapt and they will - give it a chance people! Are you going to make them stay together in middle school, maybe high school? Maybe they should marry twins so that they can have a double wedding!!! GIVE IT UP!!!

bn1967...if my child is more important to teachers than anything else, then why doesn't my tax dollars follow my child? I mean, wouldn't that be the fair and logical thing to do? Why do teachers vote constantly to keep my child from their rightful portion of tax dollars to be schooled? If teachers were truly more interested in my son/daughter's well being, then they would be totally for him/her going to a school that was better equipped to meet his/her needs. Instead it always comes down to the dollars. Get my point?

Billnewbie...yes, you are right. I would much prefer that! Thanks!

therude_1: As parents we think we know what is best for our kids. And, many times we do. But, many times, as unconventional as their ideas may seem to us--the teachers really do know what is best in the long run. My son was receiving extra help in reading and math. His teacher approached me about having one of his "interventions" during recess time. Recess? No way. That is a kid's time to be a kid. Who did this teacher think she was offering up the barbaric idea of stripping my son of 15 MINUTES of monkey bar time to cement his math facts? She responded in a kind manner and just asked that I trust her on this and give it a whirl. That evening I asked my son what he thought about having a special date with Mrs. XXXXX three times a week. Much to my shock--he was EXCITED about it. And, 6 weeks later when they ended that intervention time, my son was bummed.
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I do not have twins. And, I cannot say I understand what your family is going through. But, they might be fighting for a short-term gain and inturn getting a long-term sacrifice; instead of the other way around. "Bullying" your way around until you get your way is not a redeeming trait to teach any child. My daughter was placed in a different "color" than her friends this year. She wanted me to call the school and get her switched. Nope. Make new friends and learn to adapt to NEW situations is what I told her. Guess what? She came home from her 1st day yesterday excited about making new friends... Huh. Crazy how things almost always work out despite our attempts at sabbotage or theories of conspiracy.

I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday. She has twin 10 year old girls. She said she cried and stomped and pouted the first time her girls were separated--in 2nd grade. The school told her to give it a chance and to trust them. Reluctantly, she agreed and went home to tell her daughters the "devastating" news. They are entering 5th grade this year and the 4th school year of not being in the same class. She and her daughters admitted that it was the best thing ever and she is thankful that the school stood their ground. Of course EVERY child is different. But, there are times as parents we are our children's biggest cheerleader and nemesis all in the same right.

another thing, who cares about the money two kids bring into a school. Lets just turn this into another thing about taxes. My Gosh people read a book now and then!!

SarahB are you kidding me? This whole thing isnt about the parents it is about the boys and how this will effect them. There was nothing ever brought up to my Brother and Sister in-law about anything, Paula helped out as a classroom mom. These two people are only out for what is best for their kids, THEIR KIDS!!!!!!! If you thought something was not good for your kids wouldn't you do something about it? I would hope so!!

Sarah, disrespect to teachers, usually comes from teachers who talk and act like they know more than the parents. Not the case. Just because someone has a college degree does not mean they are good at what they do. This is true in all careers, not just teaching.

As far as what teachers are paid, I think some are way OVERPAID, based on the job they do. Then there are the teachers we could never pay enough, because they truly do give heart and soul.

I know there are more good teachers out there than bad. It's just the ones that are not so great, muddy the water for the rest who do their job very well.

But you are trying to give a opinion on something you do not have a true understanding for as you do not have kids in school, or kids in general. It's funny before my sister had kids she would say " My kids would never do that" now she finds her self with young kids, and finds herself saying " I can not believe my kids did that." Just a difference of thinking you know it all before you have kids, and finding out you don't after you have kids.

Facts and figures can never raise a child, as each child is different. It is a matter of choice class placement.

If the school had told them there was issues I am sure they would have done what was best for the boys. But there was no issues that were ever mentioned to them. So there should not have been such a issue leaving them together. Was it really worth the fight? The schools lose money for each child that leaves. Money they can not afford to lose.

Lovetoscrap:
Rather than withholding taxes to pay for the school of your choice, wouldn’t it be better if the school district would bundle up the money they were going to spend educating your children, about $10,000 each, and pay the tuition at the school of your choice, probably as little as 1/2 as much as what they would have spent? The school system would then keep what is left while your children get the state mandated free education they are entitled to at a school that will be more responsive to the concerns of parents.

Hey, rims: Cool your jets and reread my post. At no time did I write that I knew what was best for these children or any other children. I was just stating what friends who are twins and parents of twins related to me about their experiences. Everyone can have an opinion on any subject; that is what free speech is all about. If some of you folks treat teachers with the same lack of respect you display for them in your comments, then I truly believe teachers do not get paid enough. Yes, parents know their children best and are the best ones to teach them the realities of life, but that often has nothing to do with academics. Teachers are educated in how to help students achieve the best results academically. They need to be able to work together with parents to get the best result out of a child. But why is it so hard for some parents to trust a teacher's ability to do what is best in a school setting? Sure, there are some not-so-good teachers, but I believe there are a far greater number of great teachers. And, no, I am not an educator but was a student at one time and absolutely loved and respected my teachers. And my parents were fine with that. It seems like some parents posting here are jealous of their child's teachers. It reminds me of a parent's gut reaction to the first time their child innocently tries to correct a parent with "Nope, Mom, that's not what teacher says ..."

Well I am proud that my brother and sister in-law are standing up for what they think is best for the boys. They are great parents who want nothing but the best for their kids. You all can say what you want but the bottom line is as parents we DO know what is best for our children. Sorry to all the teachers that may no like this but there aren't as many teachers out there that you think that the children are the most important thing to them. I have ran into my share of teachers that think they know my kids better then me and some that really could care a less what was best for my child, and in return some that have went out of there way to be there no matter what for me and my child. This isnt about teachers this is about the best choice made for these boy which I dont think none of you know. So before you judge these parents for what they are doing, think about how this will effect them if the would be seperated. As far as Tony and Paula bringing this to the attention of everyone they should they arent doing anything wrong by telling their atories and gettting this out. As for my nephews knowing what it is about that isn't a bad thing and I really dont see my brother and sister talking about it in anyway bad to them. They are fighting for what they think is best and that is the main point!

Before I get a lashing I'd like to say (again) it was in bad taste to DENY the family their wishes (especially if there were no issues with one twin being dependent on the other). One thing to consider is that parents know their children BEST when they are at home with siblings; teachers know the children when they are in a group of 20+. My own child is a terror at home but put her in a class of 21 and she becomes a totally different child.

I just love it when people with no kids, think they have the answers and can judge people with kids. Please.
I think also if the school could have provided valid reasons for not allowing these kids to stay together such as behavior issues it might have been a different story. But as pointed out already in this story there was none.
I think we should all be glad we do not live in the Milton school district, not very open minded at all.
As long as I pay taxes I will have final say in what goes on with my kids at school. Public schools will continue to see declining enrollments, especially the smaller schools as long as they continue to disrespect the parents.

Sarah it does not matter what you think, what I think or anyone else. This is about this particular family. We have family members and friends who both have twins, a lady I work with has triplets. The family's with the twins both wanted their kids together and the schools they went to , had no issue with it. This is a personal decision for this family, ITS their kids, not yours, not ours and most definitely not the schools. TO many times the schools forget just WHO the parents are. YOU state you have NO kids, so you really are out of the loop in terms of what goes on in public schools. NO< having nieces, cousins , nephews or neighbors with kids in school does not count, as its NEVER quite the same. Each family, and each child is different and the school has NO business in this decision. AS it already has been pointed out, the school had no issues behaviorally or academically before the parents made the request. SO that is not the issue. THIS administrator is just on a power trip and it shows. IT also came back to bite her in the butt.

lovetoscrap, "Don't tell me that children are the most important thing to the teachers at public schools"... I'd like to hear what you think is important to teachers.

SarahB...I think, at least I hope you got the point. Don't tell me that children are the most important thing to the teachers at public schools and they have more expertise in teaching my children than I do. And, if I have issues with this thinking that I should pull them out and quit being a "whiner". Well, I am saying fine, but let my money follow my children. I shouldn't have to continue paying some educator who is interested in the "bottom line" while pretending to be all about the children. Like I said. It's a double standard. You don't mind getting rid of the child...just please don't take our money!

Lovetoscrap: If we were to switch to your idea of a tax plan, then folks like me who have no children (and there are a lot of us!) would pay ZERO in school taxes. But I pay my fair share because it is the law and because I happen to think education is important to a community's children. In the day or so since this story was published, I have spoken with at least five twins that I know and the mothers of two other sets of twins. Every single one of these respondents endorsed having twins separated. In fact, for many of them the separation occurred when they entered second grade.

virtual schools are free. There are several in the state, your district does not have to 'have' one. You must do it during the open enrollment period though, for the next school year. They do 'class' trips and projects just like they do in the brick and mortar schools. Just more options.

Very good points pat. Also, for those of you who are saying we have the choice to pull our kids out of the public schools if we don't like it, then we should get our fair share of the tax dollars, which we have paid, so we CAN afford to home school or send privately. But of course, this comment is going to be met with much anger as its fine if we pull our kids...but please, oh please, don't take our money. Of course that totally supports someone else's comment on here about it being about the almighty dollar and not about the kids! Lets get real here!

From experience with OUR school district, I have shown the teachers TWICE now UNFORTUNATELY that sometimes parents do now more than the teachers. With both my son and daughter we felt there was something not quite right, in terms of how they were doing academically , yet when we pressed with questions the TEACHERS wanted to continue on with the same old, same old. We questioned if they should not be tested in both cases they said no, we think its just 'this' .. So we went with what they 'thought' for almost year with our first child because we 'believed' they knew best. By the end of the year with no changes we insisted they test her. Sure enough she the results were as we the PARENTS had suspected, she had l. d. . Then was put in proper classes. When we saw the same issues with our son, they once again wanted to wait. We insisted this time , and once again our thoughts were were right. The school would have waited until he was way far behind. SO parents due KNOW best. We have found we listen, and watch what the school does or does not due very closely. As we lost faith in them believing they know best long ago. They are always watching that bottom line.

Teachers are not YOUR kids parents, they do NOT know your kids like you do. They DO not know what is best for your kids YOU do. Go with your GUT>>>>

As far as some parents not being able to home school, for financial reasons.
With home schooling there is no clock, you can do it year round, or only after noons, or only mornings.. YOU do have to get in so many hours a year, but its easy to do if you WORK summers with your kids, which really is a good idea any way.

ALSO virtual schools are a excellent option. Kids that are junior high and older can do these on their own. More class options than public schools. Many benefits, and they are considered public schools, so your kids get a diploma just like the brick and mortar schools.

Truth be told I believe the parents are the ones doing what they feel is best. We are really just discussing our views. I have to agree it really is noones business but the parents are the ones who put it in the paper. Now it becomes open for anyone to voice how they feel. Just not sure why people are being so mean. Twins really are not near as rare as they use to be. So I mean really what did all the others do? Did thier own thing and kept thier childrens business to themself. Teachers have enough issues without things like this. Just like everything else you can not please all. I have had my share of teachers have not agreed with all either. Would not EVER let my children know this. They had to make thier own mind up. If there is not harm and it is not broken let it ride. Thank you to all the wonderful teachers my children have come in contact with. Yes I have twins and they have special needs. Have had my ups and downs but always have tried to stay open minded.

I see alot of comments that if the parents don't like it, they should just home school their children. Well, they probably would, but most families can't afford to. So, the parents and the teachers/administration must work together to reach an acceptable agreement. What I don't understand is why is it such a big deal to the school. The children get their education either way, so unless it is actually disruptive to the class, the school doesn't have any justification for this denial.

I believe it was a teacher who said on here, that the parents are not always right. But either are the schools. So glad to see someone in education admitting they are not always right. That they know it all. It is very insulting when the school administrators take the holier than thou attitude and act as if parents know nothing. AS FOR THOSE OF YOU IN THE MILTON SCHOOL DISTRICT,,,, you think things are less than pleasant now, wait until you meet your NEW director of pupil services. She is something else. A lot of Evansville parents are glad she is GONE. Some one else's head ache now. Good luck.

Well said beenthere:

"This has nothing to do with raising the children and everything to do with educating them. The School District has the educated and trained professionals. Let them do the educating and the parents do the parenting. They are not the same thing. The sooner people realize this the better off the educational system will be. There is nothing more important to the schools than educating the children. Just because you went to school and/or have children, doesn't make you an expert on how best to educate them."

I couldn't have put it any better!

My thoughts exactly TCB...

1. Is this really news worthy? In my opinion, no.

2. The school is absolutely correct. The school determines which child is in each class.

3. The parents can choose to remove their kids if they wish. Ultimately, this is tantamount to an adult temper tantrum.

The childred are going to have to learn socialization skills at one point in their lives-the sooner the better.

What physician writes a note about Separation anxiety for children? Presumably, EVERY child suffers some level of separation anxiety when they go to school. Children are pretty darn resilient, evidently the parents are not.

Who provides the necessities of life for these children? The parents thats who, so anyone who wants to tell these parents whats best for their children need to pony up and help provide the money to raise these children. Until then let these parents do their job, because unlike all of us they have a deep love and desire for them to succeed in life and we don't. Yes we may hope for the best, but we are not going to be there for every step. Everyone here that has children don't want others telling us whats best for our childrens , so why should we be telling others.

Beenthere,

Yes, even with your amusing tirade, I am still the best teacher for MY children. I wouldn't be so bold as to say I am a better teacher to your children. It wouldn't matter how many doctorate degrees etc. you would have...you would still not be a better teacher to my children. I have raised them since conception. I know their moods, their learning styles, their insecurities. You couldn't even fake knowing that stuff. This is what makes me such an expert on my own children. And as my children grow and are trained, they will be able to make more wise decisions for themselves without my having to be there constantly. This is called parenting in case you wondered.

Its funny how some of the teachers that have posted comments here have said, in effect, don't blame us, blame the administrators, yet many teachers have defended the decision of these administrators just the same.
Thank you NVgrf for the backhanded compliment. I'm not actually right all the time, just nearly. I see you've picked up an ally. I had considered the possibility that you have been posting under multiple identities, and you may be since integrity isn’t your strong suit, but I have come to the conclusion that jqpublic is not you. However, jqpublic does seem to be a dedicated union teacher as are you, or as you were, and you probably have many other things in common besides sanctimony.
I see you’ve been busy posting comments over the last couple of days. You managed to insulted 6 people other than me on your last 10 posts while adding absolutely nothing constructive at all, not even a gross generalization. That certainly validates my opinion of you.

1. Is this really news worthy? In my opinion, no.

2. The school is absolutely correct. The school determines which child is in each class.

3. The parents can choose to remove their kids if they wish. Ultimately, this is tantamount to an adult temper tantrum.

The childred are going to have to learn socialization skills at one point in their lives-the sooner the better.

What physician writes a note about Separation anxiety for children? Presumably, EVERY child suffers some level of separation anxiety when they go to school. Children are pretty darn resilient, evidently the parents are not.

I would want my kids in the same class if I were a parent of twins. At least at this early age. Then you could be consistant at home with continuing what is being taught in the classroom. Each teacher has different methods and schedules. Last year the other classes in my child's grade were doing completely different things. You may not tell your dr how to be a doctor but you have the final say on medical decisions, you may not tell the hairdresser how to cut your hair but you tell them how you like it cut or issues with your hair. As a parent you should have a final say as long as there isn't something clearly harmful to your child.

After reading the article again I really think it was in Harmony's bad taste to go against a parent's wishes. Someone pointed out that since these children were pulled from the school that school will loose money. What are the parents going to do? I'm sure there will be a school that allows them to be together. Or home school? I've had twins, cousins and even siblings (within a year apart in age) in the same class and even though I thought they should be separated I nor my school would have DENIED a parent's wishes. I've suggested it be better to separate and the parents agreed or disagreed but in the end it was up to the parents.

Parents should prevail as long as that decision isn't immediately harmful to the children. Schools should recommend, based on their knowledge and experience. Parents should strongly consider such recommendations and decline them only when they are totally convinced their opinion is best for their child. Parents then must take responsibility for their actions down the road.

Alright, why hasn't anyone commented on the fact that it was the Principal who ultimately made the decision??? Have any of you dealt with the Milton School District? My child was also forced into being homeschooled (and no she wasn't a trouble maker - she is special needs). They are a very close knit (small) community and not used to accomodating children that aren't in the "norm"! And to the Ciebell's, I wish you the best with the twins - I totally support you and truly hope you have better luck than I have had over the years - it is very difficult to find the right educational fit for your child, not only do you have to fight with the schools but it is also difficult for family members and friends to understand.....my favorite quote "walk a mile in my shoes"

I as a twin, coming from a household of 2 sets of twins really am glad that we were seperated in our classrooms. I have a twin sister and we also have twin brothers. Growing up having a twin was a great experience, but I truly think the best thing you can do for these kids is seperate them while they are younger. They need to learn how to communicate,interact, and socialize with children independently. The longer you keep them together, the more they are going to depend on each other. If you think you have a problem now with the school not wanting them to be together, you may have way bigger issues later if you keep trying to keep them together. Like I have stated, this is just personal experience, but truly look at your pros and cons because that should be clear as to what you should do for the best interest of the boys.

NVgrf: You are right billnewbie is a know it all? Read through some of his 670 post. 67 pages of nonsense!!

More gross generalizations by bill. My God, the man is an expert in everything. Hey bill, is there anything that you don't know?

After reading all the posts it was funny to see a few that make me think some of the anti-teacher posters think of teachers as idiots who don't have a college education. That we are these horrible people just out to get other people's children! Most of us have our own children and even some of us have problems with our own children's teachers! I had issues with the district my daughter went to for the first 2 years (a differing philosophy on how to teach reading) so I opened enrolled her into a district that had similar beliefs as my own. I would love to have some of the people on here that constantly bash teachers spend a year shadowing me in my classroom, sitting in on parent conferences...to see that it is a hard job but I do it out of my love for teaching children. We are not all bad; just as all parents are not bad.

I do not know why it still surprises me that people in this community are rude, insulting and obnoxious. Because that's what sells newspapers and gets you on the front page of the Janesville Inquirer.

If the school can not teach twins in the same class, who can they teach?
What a joke!

I don't recall any one associated with the School District stating that they couldn't teach twins in the same class. They just didn't believe that it was in the best interest of the twins.

If the school can not teach twins in the same class, who can they teach?
What a joke! School is just new age brainwashing anyway...

It is unfortunate that the Gazette allows comments on articles such as these. I do not know why it still surprises me that people in this community are rude, insulting and obnoxious.

At our school, we don't honor a lot of the parent requests, except for a few exceptions, and the reason we don't do this is because once you honor a request from one parent, then you need to honor them all. Of course, there are exceptions, but they have to be some very rare scenarios.

So what are the parents going to do with their kids now? Home-school them? Maybe the public school system will be better off without the "holier than thou" attitude of these parents. these parents just look ridiculous. Get over it and move on. Good luck with your sheltered lives children!!

I haven't read any of the posts but have a few thoughts on this. First, as a teacher, the school should not have REFUSED to let the students be together; it's the parent's right to decide. I'm shocked that the school district would do something so against a parent's wishes. That is just bad public relations! Second, I do think it's better for the twins to be apart. Not every teacher teaches the same or offers the same experiences. I would think that having the twins separated would offer them more opportunities to learn from each other and develope their own friendships. I teach with a twin and she and her twin were separated and she agrees they should be in different classes. As a mom I chose to let my child's school know that my child shouldn't be placed with her friend that she had been at daycare with since the girls were 2. They were close and I didn't want my child to depend too much on her friend who was older (by 6 months) and more independent. Just my thoughts.

I am a teacher AND the parent of twins entering 2nd grade. Education is a partnership bewteen parents and the schools. Those of you who assume parents are always right about your children are VERY WRONG. Equally, schools are also not always right. When I discuss with the school about the placement of my twins (as I would with any child), I have to assume that the school sees them in the SCHOOL setting and I only know them in the home setting. These are two very different places. I work with students in and out of the classroom and can say that there are differences between students in the classroom and when coaching them. Teachers and administrators have advanced degrees on how to educate children. I would never dream of telling a doctor how to handle my twins. I wouldn't ever tell a mechanic how to fix my car or a hairstylist how to cut my hair. In this situation the school and parents may not have communicated enough with each other.
FYI- It is more work for the parent to have children in separate classes. Homework, field trips and projects aren't always the same. Maybe those of you fighting to keep your children together, simply don't want the extra work...

As a twin myself and a former day care teacher, I have to say that seperating the boys at 2nd grade is a good idea. My twin and I were 'split up' in that grade and it was a good move for both of us. My twin was the dominant one and without putting us in our own classes, who knows if I would have broken out of the more submissive role if I wasnt 'forced' to be my own person and not one of The Twins.
As for the parents saying their boys are not acting the same as the school says....From what I've seen in daycare, children can and do act completely different for parents vs. in school. They are not there during school hours and do not know how they behave. Grades are only a part of the equation there.

I think atwoodave had the best idea that I have read on this post thus far: "There is room for compromise. Have a few classes together and a few apart. It would take some scheduling creativity but it may just benefit all involved." Key word here for ALL parties involved and the best lesson for the children: COMPROMISE.

I will take the side of a whiny parent any day over a whiny administrator or teacher. Some times when I listen to them, I wonder if they really went to college. With some you can't tell.

beenthere, right on. Why did they take there case public? Teach them yourselfs. They have been doing this for years and it seems to work out.

As a parent I can understand why you're concerned about separating your twins. Personally, I wouldn't want to be told what to do/how things are going to be either. I do think it should be your final say.

As a twin myself, I was separated from my twin in kindergarten too. We didn't understand it (I don't remember it really) but it was necessary and we grew from it. We were both very quiet & shy. We leaned on each other. It caused us to grow individually. It's true twins have a bond that can't be broken. And it won't be broken from separate classes. Sure they will grow apart a bit (will eventually as they grow up anyway) -in a good way. They will still have the same school, many of the same friends, bday, the same family, home, rooms, life outside of school. Allow your kids to become individuals. Don't get me wrong, my sister & I love being twins. My parents think it's special. BUT - now as adults, we are still very competitive. We are always compared. Being competitive is a inborn curse we have, it's natural to us. Allow your kids to grow from this.

As a early chidhood professional, I believe your children will not suffer emotional harm from this given you have raised them to be secure little children & are excited for them rather than making a big deal out of it. Yes there will be adjustment. From the teacher's point of view, in kindergarten, learning to separate from parents is huge. In this case, separating from a sibiling is similar.

Harmony is an excellent school. It would be too bad for your children to miss out on such a great education because of all this. I realize as my own child starts K, that this is just the beginning. In the school system, there will be situations & issues that come up that we have to deal with. I hope to do it with grace & less pride/self interest and keep in mind what's best for my child. And yes, as a parent I do know what's best for him. As a professional, I hope I can also work together with my child's teachers as I know I can't be an expert at everything & there's good reasons behind their point of view. Teach your kids that being flexible and give & take is necessary in life. Not that just because I'm a twin, I'm extra special (even though they are!) :)

The problem isn't with public education, it is with whining parents that always want their way and think they always know best and don't want any body to tell them what to do. Home and school environment are two different settings. The great thing about this country though is choice, if you don't like what is happening in one place you can go to another. As happened in this story.

lovetoscrap
"No one, and I mean NO ONE is more qualified to teach my children than my husband and I." You and your husband should become teachers or better yet administrators, since neither group seem to ever know what is best for the children. In addition, it must be nice to be this intellectually superior to everyone.I hope when it comes time to send your child(ren) to college the college is close so you can still watch the content of their classes.

I am a twin. I am 40. When my sister&I and I were growing up we were in the same class until Junior high. These boys are young and need each other. I think its clear it was best leaving my sister and I together. I own my own travel agency, and she is a lawyer. So we were not educationally impaired by it. This is just administration sticking its nose in where it does not belong. Parents have to have final say and I don't send my kids to school to have the school tell me how to raise them. That is my job. There are two many options for education anymore. Public schools have in many ways become a joke. My friends kids go virtual school, and it was a excellent choice. They have twice as many class options as public school. Public schools whine about lack of money, and budget woes, and then they drive family's away. I do not feel sorry for schools and their budget woes, they do it to them selves. Over spending and not working with family's.

Because Sarah...a teacher who is teaching 30 kids in a classroom doesn't know my kid like I do. And sometimes you have to go through three or four piano teachers before you find the one that fits your child etc. Part of parenting is making sure your children are protected and learning at their best. That is exactly why I won't send my children to public schools in their early years. My daughter didn't attend public school until high school and even then I keep a close watch on what is going on and what the teachers are teaching her. Yes, I am her mother and I have the final say on what my daughter is to be taught. If I don't agree with something, I will pull her for that class and ask for alternative teaching materials be given. That is my right as a parent. And my duty as a parent. No one, and I mean NO ONE is more qualified to teach my children than my husband and I.

Ah...the beauty of America...if you don't like the way someone else is doing something...quit your bitchin' and do it yourself.

Why bother sending your children to school ... or to a doctor ... or to private piano lessons ... or to soccer practice ... or to church Sunday school ... or anywhere else if parents always know best?! (I think you catch my drift.)

I am mother of twins, my twins are not yet school aged but I would like to be able to decide for my self how they should be educated. There are parents out there fighting for legistlation that would allow parents not schools the choice in this matter. www.twinslaw.com has info on groups that are lobbing for states to allow the choice to parents. I am a memeber of the Madison Mothers of Multiples group and I first learned about this law at one of our meetings. If anyone is interested vist the above site or www.madsionmothersofmultiples.com
I am sure there a people there that know more about this push for a law. I myself can only pass on this info.
Guess all I can say is get involved with your childs edu. and take it to your congress etc....Make change happen thats why we vote for state representatives.

Sometimes what you want and what you need are two different things. I thing that having the twins in differnt classes will turn out okay. Maybe the kids will be fine with it if the parents are responding positively. Like the song goes..."You can't always get what you want" Life has a way of working itself out. Plus, 90% of what we worry about never comes true!
PS. It's KindergarTen...not kindergarDen

It just amazes me how many people are including teachers in the administrative decision making process. Teachers are paid employees. The administration could care less what the teachers thoughts on the matter might be. Drop the blame where it belongs. This mother didn't hear a peep about problems with the twins (dominant twin V more subordinate role twin) because there wasn't a problem. Legally the administration had to give her an answer, so they came up with one. "How dare these parents question professionals such as us!" If there really was a problem, the parents would have heard about it.. And probably would have decided to separate the twins. Absent any problems, the administration should stick to administration issues (like staying with in the mandated budget), the teachers should be brining these issues up, & the parents should have the final say so.

There are involved parents and then there are pushy parents who everytime something doesn't go their way they have a hissy fit. What is this teaching the boys? My friend has twins and they were together until 3rd grade. The next year they were separated, when they changed schools, and they actually learned it took a lot of pressure off of one. One is a social hoot and the other is quieter/academic and it gave the quieter one a chance to shine on his own. I think the teachers in this story deal with the kids in a different type of environment then parents do at home and they probably know what works best in their classrooms. If at home they want to dress them and treat them identically than go for it but let them be individuals at school.

Milton has been doing this as an unwritten rule for years.. Don't you know they know everything that is best for your kids//./

Parents always have the final say. NO one else gets to tell you how to raise your kids. That is why we are called parents. We have had some issues with our school for our daughter and we have challenged them every time we thought oh xxxx NO> We as well even had documentation from
her pediatrician. Her pediatrician sure knows a xxxx lot more about development of children than a teacher or administrator sitting behind some desk.

Our daughter is not only doing just fine, but is excelling..following our requests.

A lot of times with these administrators is nothing more than a power trip.

It almost sounds more personal than professional. Parents know there kids best, and
are the best ones to make the call. Plain and
simple.

If this administration is that bored, and has nothing better to do than maybe they should work harder at that budget. You know the one, where they are how many hundreds of thousands in the hole??

School system administrators also claim to be professional educators. Don't they all have some kind of degree in education? Isn't an advanced educational degree a prerequisite for being considered for a decision and policy making administration position in a public school system?

Allow me to reiterate something that was said before: It is not the teachers who made this decision. It was administrative in nature. Teachers have very little input as to which kids are assigned to their classrooms - and teach all who are assigned. Please address your criticism toward administrators and not teachers.

Teachers teach to the entire class, not the individual student. We parents know what is best for our individual child. If these parents feel that is what is best for their boys then there must be a reason- they know their kids.

“Why just because you're a parent are you an expert in what is best for your child educationally?” Because the parents know their children and their needs from spending years of being personally involved with their development and, because of the familial relationship, parents have a huge personal interest in the success of their children where an “expert” educator has little direct personal contact with any of the students and nothing personally invested at all.

Apparently Milton does not need or want the money that 2 students being pulled from the district would have generated.

I appreciate that people are thinking of this topic and willing to comment on it. Let me tell you that this is my story and we never had a complaint of any kind about the boys. The teachers and administration had every opportunity to give us feedback on the situation as we attended our conferences, ate lunch with our kids on multiple occassions, attended extracurricular activities and just plain are very accessible. We never received a phone call or comment on a report card regarding this or any other issue with the way the boys interact. We have never requested a specific teacher, they did not sit together in class, did not sit together every day at lunch and did not play together all the time at recess. They are getting a good education and one being dominant to the detriment of the other was never brought to our attention until we received it in writing -- after requesting a formal statement of the reasoning for the forced separation. Our point is that the bond that twins and higher-order births have is a healthy one! There is no medical, psychological or academic evidence to support school policies of forced separation of multiples.

I find this to be an interesting subject. I do have twins. I have been there with the schools. Janesvilles not miltons. In Kindegarden. They would not let my children be together. I was angry because I like to go on the field trips. I had to choose between my children or make one go with the class they were not apart of. I also thought it would mess up the twin thing. But it turned out to be very good for the children. They do things outside of school together. It did not affect them at all. Some times people see things from a different angle and it is not always bad. My children very much like being in different classes and like having thier own space. I always say you never know til you try. I am very active in my childrens life but I also know space is very valuable. I also do not let people call them the TWINS I say they have names we do not call you girl or boy. you can not break a bond no matter what you do. People who are twins will tell you that.

I'm inspired by this family and hope others are too. It's sad to say, but good parents who are involved in their kids lives are a rarity in this day and age and administrators should work with, rather than against, parents who have their children's best interests at heart. I think people who are overlooking that are not fully understanding the sacrifices that are being made here. Milton lost a couple of amazingly dedicated volunteers who were an asset to the entire school system with this move. Their loss!

"It’s interesting that they seem to feel that the education system must rely only on their judgment as if their education and training are the only source of sound judgment and that they assume parental judgment is deficient when it is in conflict with their own." I don't remember anyone stating that the education system must rely only on their judgment. Opinions are always welcome. But why just because you're a parent are you an expert in what is best for your child educationally? By the nature of being a teacher, aren't these individuals paid to do what they believe is in the best interest of all children educationally? So being a parent for eight plus years makes them better able to assess what is best for their children educationally? More so then the teachers, principal and others that have combined educational experience well above eight plus years? It is not that parental judgment is deficient when it is in conflict with the parents', it is that educators are trained in these situations and take the emotions out of the equation and do what is in the "best interest of the kids".

When these boys are in High School, and they aren't in the same class, are the parents going to pull this again? Children need to learn on their own, and build their personality on their own. By having the twins kept in the same class year after year, they're just making it harder to separate them in the future. What happens when college rolls around and one has a scholarship? are they going to say hell with that because the other one didn't get in? C'mon parents... let the kids be themselves.

bellagio.. I agree with you and I am a mother to 5 year old twin girls. They went to 4K together last year. I did not request anything specific for kindergarten and I left it up to the school to place the girls in whatever room they felt best, after all, they have experience with this issue. They will be in separate classes, and I AM GLAD. One is more dominant than the other and takes over often. This will give my shy one some independence and allow her attributes to come out. They DO NOT need to be together constantly, I don't think it's "healthy". They are both excited for school and don't care that they aren't together. They need to learn at a young age that they will not always be in everything together,they are 2 different people and needed to be teated as such.

Just be fair and make sure that all kids in the school get to decide what class they will be in. No child should be excluded for lack of a twin sibling.

What is it that makes an educated trained professional (expert) educator? Apparently, indoctrination into a common philosophy and a belief in the superiority of their own judgment are predominant characteristics. It’s interesting that they seem to feel that the education system must rely only on their judgment as if their education and training are the only source of sound judgment and that they assume parental judgment is deficient when it is in conflict with their own.
It’s dangerous for the future of these self-appointed “experts” for them to suggest that if you don’t like their judgments, then home school. If enough people take their advice, these experts could quickly become unemployed as it is well shown that home schooled children, as well as privately schooled children, outperform those who are educated by the “experts” in public schools.
Now if we would elect officials statewide that are not under the thumb of the teacher’s union, we could have school choice throughout the state. Then these supercilious attitudes expressed by the “experts” would, by necessity, disappear, being replaced by co-operative attitudes dictated by the new reality of the educational choices of all parents.

If it is the opinion that the parents always know best for their children when it comes to education, even more than the educated, trained professionals licensed to educate children you have an option. HOME SCHOOL. Then you will not to deal with teachers or administrators.

These parent need to quit coddeling their kids! Let them grow up and experience their own learning, friendships and activities. They are NOT joined at the hip. These parents are just trying to hold them back and keep them sheltered. And a doctors excuse....please, get real.

There is room for compromise. Have a few classes together and a few apart. It would take some scheduling creativity but it may just benefit all involved. (and yes, I do know about creative scheduling in schools. I spent the majority of my teaching career doing just that type of scheduling.)

This is not what you, I or the school thinks is best for the children. This is what the PARENTS think is best for the children. The school district should make recommendations and try to guide the parents, not dictate to them.

Yes, why not leave them in the same classroom. When/if there becomes an issue, then separate them. Make that known to the boys and the parents. They are 8 yrs old and surely must know that there are consequences for all actions. But then on the flipside, will these boys always be together? What about high school, college, even marriage?

I don't know much about twins. So if anyone can enlighten me, feel free. That being said, I don't understand how separating the boys for not even 8 hours a day is going to hurt them. As a matter of fact, I would think it could benefit them. They will learn to stand on their own, develop their own personality, and make their own friends. I've heard stories of twins being separated for long periods of time and having emotional and mental problems because of it. But less than 8 hours a day? Come on now.

This has nothing to do with the ability of the teachers to educate twins. I don't recall reading or there even being the implication by the parents or the School District that the teachers/school didn't have the ability to teach twins. As stated in the article, it comes down to what the educated, trained professionals believe is "best for the kids". Usually situations like this come down to that it is easier for the parents to have both children in the same classroom. With most things easiest is not always best. Furthermore, parents always have a choice as in this case, move to another school, District or State that caters to parents perception of what is best educationally for their child.

mytake4u, I take great offense to your comment about educators being self-serving people! If I were a self-serving person, I certainly would not have chosen teaching, where often MY money is spent on other people's children's supplies because I care about THEM and want to help, and where on more than one occasion MY family comes second to my responsibilities to students at school. I love students and my work--please think before you type. This is a tricky issue, frankly, as BOTH parents AND teachers have valid, significant knowledge of what is best; too bad it seems that communication between the two parties was NOT as effective as it could have been.

As a former pre-school teacher and parent, I am 100% behind the parents on this. Unless, the two little boys are causing disruption in the classroom because they are together, the parents should have the last word. Years from now when these little boys are grown-ups it is the family (not the staff of the Milton School District) who will be living with any possible consequences of their separation. Hurray for these wonderful parents who know their little boys well!!

Haven't I read in all of the posts through out the JVL Gazette about how the parents should be involved in the children's education? (which are postings from the teachers themselves) Now the school is saying they know more than the parents. Teachers can't have it both ways. You have involved parents, they know their kids, when the kids are ready to be seperated they will let you know in their own time.

school systems have always thought they know best. if they don't have the ability to educate twins in the same class they should NOT educate anyone. the teachers educate and the parents parent. if a school system ever tried to seperate my twins (if i had twins) they would have their hands full with me in their face. do away with public education. they are self serving people and probably fail as parents as much as anyone else.

This has nothing to do with raising the children and everything to do with educating them. The School District has the educated and trained professionals. Let them do the educating and the parents do the parenting. They are not the same thing. The sooner people realize this the better off the educational system will be. There is nothing more important to the schools than educating the children. Just because you went to school and/or have children, doesn't make you an expert on how best to educate them.

Schools make me laugh. They truly do think they know best. What a joke. I see NO HARM in leaving them in the same classroom. If anything it could do more harm separating them. Parents should ALWAYS have final say, and I would leave as well if someone was telling me what I could or could not do with my child. YOU would think these schools would have something more important to do would you not?

This is nothing new in the school systems. While I am not a twin, a cousin and I are about a month apart in age. We were always at each other's house as we were growing up and were more like sisters than cousins. After kindergarden our teachers thought we depended to much on each other and needed to be seperated, so we were put in different classes every other year after that. I know it isn't the same as it is with twins, but this was their solution for us at that time (more years ago than I really want to admit to!) We stayed close, and were able to make our own set of friends seperately and together.

Wow, how did it happen that the schools think they know how to raise the children better than their parents. How in the world can they make ANY decisions based on the few minutes a day they spend with these kids. I can not tell you how many battles I have had with 2 school districts over this (Milton being one of them), don't loose faith - we the parents REALLY DO KNOW OUR CHILDREN BEST AND WHAT THEIR NEEDS ARE !!!