whatever. I hear you, and assuming your email was respectful (no reason to think otherwise) it was a mistake for the school b. pres. not to communicate back. It doesn't take long to at least thank you for taking the time to write.

Perhaps I'm too optomistic, but I think the general economy will be seeing some big improvements this Spring and that things will be picking up. And knowing how quickly building expenses and costs increase, we may end up paying a lot more for a lot less. I understand that it can be kind of tricky playing the "what if" game but I think we have to make our best judgment call on it.

Who knows, by Feb. we may even be seeing some of the upswing in the economy.

One thanks for doing the math also! If I wasnt over taxed with the village, it would make the school district stuff, easier to swallow!

Onevoice, that is only part of it, as beloit gets lots of state funding to offset their tax burden, we are not so fortunate in the Clinton School District. The problem with the adding the additional money to the referendum, is that money doesn't go into that math. Something needs to be done I so agree, but I question the timing. The solution may not be so easy to come up with given the economic conditions that we are up against. I wish they would come up with something else rather than trying to shove the last mess back down our throats. I did e-mail the School Board President, and did not get a response back! I really don't think they care to really talk to the community about this. I spoke to lots of people last night at the lit x-mas parade. Every person I spoke to was against it the referendum the first time and representing it a second time. The common voice was that times are tough and the school district needs to make do with what they have!

whatever. Thx for the tax link, it's a good one and I would encourage people to take a look. Here's a bit of the info from that link:

Expense per pupil / Tax rate
Beloit - 10,296 / 10.36
Beloit Turner - 9,111 / 9.30
Brodhead - 8,575 / 8.09
Clinton - 9,222 / 10.29
Delavan-Darien - 8,375 / 6.79
Evansville - 8,577 / 9.81
Janesville - 9,041 / 7.71
Milton - 8,138 / 7.31
Palmyra-Eagle - 8,424 / 8.71
Parkview - 9,528 / 8.87
Sharon J11 (K-8)- 9,201 / 6.20
`
average: 8.49

For example:
property of $150,000.
at the average of $8.49 would = $1273.50/yr or $106.12/m
at Clinton’s rate of $10.29 = $1543.50/yr. or $128.63/m

Just the info, and then you can decide if that is out of control or not.

Voicing your opinion is doing something about, at least the first step. I would just want to encourage everyone to focus on how to be part of the solution.

One, you are correct there is nothing we/I can do about it, but voice my opinion again. I just want them to be reasonable and responsible with our money! Times are tough, I struggle to get clothing, food and everthing else for my children due to many things, but the biggest is the tax burden we are put in!

whatever . . . I must admit that I'm not sure procedurally how this would have to be done - but I would think we don't need the state to step in here. There must be some way that if we as a local gov't felt that we wanted to put limitations on how often the school board could present the same proposal, then we could do that. I very much do understand, but the fact remains that whether you think it's appropriate or not - there is nothing that currently restricts the school board from calling the same proposal.

Take a look at the figures for yourselves and see how out of control the Clinton School District is in comparision to others in the area! http://www.wistax.org/facts/SchoolFacts0...

Ok onevoice, however the public did speak and said NO, what part about that do you not understand! The school district will just keep going after this until they get it! That is kicker, all we can do is keep voting no. They keep spending money on the the referendum itself! That costs money also. The State needs to step in at some point and say to all these local entities, that no means no and come up with a time frame before they can ask for more.

onevoice~ some great wisdom with that post. One of us isn't as good as all of us!

One thing I try to keep in mind is that school board members are individuals from the community, no different than you or I. They have the demands of their everyday lives & families and then on top of all that they are willing to serve in this way. I don't think those of us who have never served on such a board can really understand all the time and complexities involved in putting together these proposals. So whether I agree with their decisions on a specific issue or not, I believe it's important to communicate with (and about) them with respect. Trying to keep in mind all the time and effort that has been spent in researching and putting together the ref. proposal, I just can't get angry at them for asking the question again. If the community at large is against it, that will come through in the vote again. Great thing about the process is you have a voice and can hold accountable those you think have made bad choices. And the fact is there is nothing that prevents the board from calling the same proposal. Again - something that can be changed if enough people agree that there should be a mandatory waiting period before the question gets on a ballot.

****

Like I try to tell my kids - if you don't like something, figure out how you can get involved and make it better.

You are exactly correct Matthew! You and I are on different sides of the referendum, however we do agree that the we are getting taxed right out of the village! I agree something needs to be done with the school, but the good ole boy thing that goes on in town is horrible!

Had the referendum passed the first time and others who were opposed to it chose to have a re-vote, THERE WOULD'NT BE A RE-VOTE! Again, there's some spoiled brats dwelling in the community of Clinton who have their own agenda and aren't interested in what's best for everyone. Their foolish pride is blinding them from being rational. Everyone had the same opportunity to vote Nov. 4th! Whether some did or didn't is irrelevent at this point. As I have said, I showed up to vote and I voted in FAVOR of the repairs. The NO's outweighed the YES's and as a person of character I accept that! It's time for people to get it together and move on. Humility goes a long way. Try it sometime.

One, i would not complain so much if I still lived in the town of turtle. They had pretty much the same services that the village does, better plowed roads and way cheaper taxes! I wish I would have never moved to the village! The problem with the referendum is that most of us can't afford the taxes in the village. I pay 5300 on a house worth 185k, silly. When I lived in the town of turtle my house was valued at 274 and paid 4300, and had twice the home and five times the land. I forsee an uphill battle with the school district. Most of the people I speak with are really against more money going to the district because of the overall impact it has on our taxes in the village. The village and school district have made way too many bad choices, which ultimately are forcing us to draw a line in the sand and say NO!

I do need to say that I don't live in the village though, and I'm sure the expenses of living in Turtle Township are much lower than the village itself. I understand things are tight right now for most of us and am not insensative to that. But I am not convinced that it will get any better in the next few years. We can probably count on building expenses going up and watching the price tag on any improvements rise with it. I'd be all for building new, but I have a feeling the expense would be much higher. I wouldn't mind seeing a comparison though - new vs. remodling.

one, please pay my share of the proposed tax increase if your for it! The problem is the well is dry! I understand the need for some of the improvements, however I question the timing of it! I have three children in the CES and see first hand the things that are wrong with it, however the price tag is scary. Just build a new school if your going to spend that much money to remodel. I have lived in the village for 3 years, and my taxes are out of control between the village and the school district! Lets not forget all the fees the school comes up with and all the things they ask our cihldren to bring in over and above what are taxes pay for.

Just a few thoughts on previous comments:

1) This has nothing to do with "living within their meens" - if the measure is not passed, no money will be spent.

2) My opinion is that it is resonable to have another vote in Feb. If that vote was still a "no" than it would be the school board's responsibility to rework the proposal and come back having made some changes, reducing the price tag. I wouldn't support continually calling the same proposal.

3)I currently have 2 kids in the district, and one more next year. I have worked for the District in the past, though not currently, as well as other local Districts. There are things that I am critical of the administration about and am well aware of the challenges that our teachers face. I know that test scores have been lower than in the past (something that has many contributing factors), but after sharing my concerns about this very issue with the CES administrator and staff, I am confident that they are taking serious steps to improve the situation. We will see in the next couple of years if those steps are in the right direction, and then it will be time for some accountability. But given all this - I wouldn't chose to have my kids in any other public school.

4) Personally, I'm not one that wants to throw money around (my own, or my comunity's) and tend to be very conservative when it comes to spending issues. However, investing in quality facilities for our children's education is one area that I am willing to spend, and make sacrifices in other areas if need be. What I don't like are those who react to any ref. question with a "NO!" without even taking the time to check out the details. I am not claiming that everyone who voted no, did so without being informed. But I do know that when the elementary school held some open houses for people to come and see 1st hand what changes were being proposed and ask questions/share concerns, pretty much nobody showed up.

magic1 - I do not have issues difficult to deal with. The Board does not listen. YOU do not know these Board members. They are into themselves. You have no idea. Grew up - went to school there - graduated with and live with some of these Board members.

Ealing-
"I've personally talked and written to the school board. Guess what - they do not listen. They do not respond. They do not return calls. They even created a policy so that they do not have to hear complaints."
Ok...Clinton has around 1500 or 1600 people in it. It is a small town. I have taken my kids there trick or treating and personally walked with them. Took me maybe 45 minutes to walk from one end of town to the other. This is not New York, Chicago, Boston, San Francisco, or some other large metropolis. I find it VERY hard to believe that no school board member would respond...unless you have 'issues' that make talking and dealing with you that unpleasant.
I will weigh out of this now...I am not a resident of Clinton, so if what residents want is to not keep up the facilities at the schools...more power to ya!
magicOne...

If they win this time, will they want a tie breaker?

I hope you clintonites will stick to your guns! The more they get the less you see. It was the same with the Janesville referendum. How many times did they put that to a vote??? They just keep presenting it untill they wear down the people, so keep that in mind. We pay enough in taxes here in janesville, but you guys pay more than us.

Matthew and I are on the same page, as well as a majority of the posters here. I have three kids that attend CES, however with being said this is not the right time for spending the money. Gracyalny says that the cost could go up 100k if we don't act right away, big deal! The costs could also go down being that this is a Recession, and the costs of everything are going down, including the value of our homes. I am sick of the Clinton Click raising taxes for everything. I love living in the village, but honestly they need to get the spending under control. My waterbills are 100 dollars plus every month, 5 people living in a house, means laudry and showers. The school district needs to live within their means. Early release every other week, give me a break. They cancel school with a dusting of snow. That means the parents can't go to work or what have you and reduces my ability to pay 200 plus dollars more per year on a house worth 100k. The problem is that most of the homes in the district are not worth 100k, most are 150k, so that means $250.00.

pcmagic1 - I've personally talked and written to the school board. Guess what - they do not listen. They do not respond. They do not return calls. They even created a policy so that they do not have to hear complaints. Again in this economy we should not be proposing to spend more money. People are without jobs wondering how to pay their current bills let alone add to their tax bill. Find a cheaper solution School Board.

So, if I understand this correctly from the obviously "more intelligent that I am" posters here...
Clinton schools has an issue with heating and space issues particularly at the Elementary School, but also some issues at other facilities. Some here say the issues should have been addressed 5 years ago. They were not, so the school facility should simply be allowed to crumble because it was not addressed 5 years ago ("This whole issue with the repairs on the elementary school should've been brought up 5 years ago").
I am not a teacher, just a concerned alum of this fine school district. I also did not know that if you spoke well of the school, that you 'must' be somehow connected financially to it.
I will stick by my opinion that this is a great school system and that the only way a school system stays great is through timely reinvestment. If you allow infrastructure to crumble too much and wait too long, it becomes even more expensive later to correct the problem. If you think that the $ proposed are too much, get involved...attend school board meetings. Sit down for coffee with a board members and explain your concerns.
Or, you can simply get on your computer and complain on the Gazette discussion board. Hmmmmm....wonder what would be more positive and productive.
magic1

pcmagic... Clinton does have a fantastic education system. It has nothing to do with this issue at hand! This whole issue with the repairs on the elementary school should've been brought up 5 years ago! Why wait until everything is breaking down to push the "envelope"??! This is typical of the board that is pushing this down people's throats! They did the same thing with the new High School. They kept bringing up a new referendum until they got their way. It's called the Clinton "click"! There is a group of people who have the holier than thou mentality when it comes to making decisions for the community in general. It's their way or no way! The whole idea behind a vote is for the community to have their say. Their say on election day was NO! If they're not happy with the results, maybe they should've campaigned a little harder and convinced the residents of Clinton to see it their way. The fact is, they DIDN'T! It is what it is. I'm one of the people who actually voted in FAVOR with the first vote! I had my say and my fellow citizens had theirs. The numbers don't lie and that's that! It's time to go back to the drawing board and figure something else out rather than drive this whole thing back down people's throats until they're tired of hearing about it. I choose fairness over what I alone desire. I respect my community too much to think otherwise! The ego's and decision making in the village of Clinton are driving people away! The cost of living in Clinton is over priced for any community! It's rediculous and it needs to be addressed by people who have a clue!

pcmagic1 - great educational system? Have you seen the ACT scores? Has your chid suffered the wrath of a teacher or been retaliated against? Or are you a staff member who gets preferential treatment for your child? As for security - paid an aide to sit at the door. Two part-time aides cost less than remodeling. Or rotate the clerical staff.

Clinton has always had not only a great educational system, but also unsurpassed community support. There is NOTHING wrong with bringing this forward again. The first vote was very close. This vote could go either way. Obviously, the School Board thinks this is very important, otherwise they would not bother with another vote. I agree that those that are against this could just as easily come out to vote as those that are for it. Take another look at the plans, discuss it with the School Board reps, and see if there is some way of continuing great education at Clinton. The last thing you want is aging facilities being ignored. That gets even MORE costly in the future.

I just don't see the justification for most of this referendum. Clearly the heat at CES needs to be updated, I would have no issue with that at all but if there is such a space concern why in the world did we sell the old middle school for nothing and now it sits empty??? I am amazed at what it costs to live in Clinton, we moved out of Dane county because of the taxes - with the taxes and crazy water bills I pay more!!! How much more can you really ask from the tax payers? Perhaps if the "industrial park" actually had some industry there would be justification for this type of project but enough is enough!

Security was brought up as an issue when the HS was built BUT the superintendent wouldn't listen. HMMMMM. Also $200 is money I don't have to add to their mismanagement. No still means no.

I wonder if those who favor a February referendum will accept the results should it lose again, or will they then say that the turnout was low so we really didn't get a representative tally. If it is a close loss yet again will they use the same rationalizations they use now in favor of yet another referendum? Will they ever accept a loss as final?
If 200 people chose not to vote on the referendum on their ballots in November, why can't their non-vote be interpreted as non-interest? Do we have any right to interpret their non-vote at all? What about all those who didn't go to the polls? Should we wonder about what they think?

Randy Gracyalny get a clue, NO MEANS NO!

As far as Rath, he is usless! Go to a mayoral system and get rid of the fat!

one voice, they can make security changes without spending millions! They should fire whomever built the High School without Security in mind! Put locks on the doors and a buzzer like Delavan Darien did. They did not spend millions to accomplish that. I pay 5300 to live in the Village of Clinton as it is, on a house valued at 185K. Two hundred dollars more for the referendum along with the normal 3 percent that they steal from us is making living in the Village silly.

Get the message Clinton School Board, we don't want our taxes raised anymore! I will be starting a Political Action Committee to be formally against this. I didn't the last time but this time it is too much! They need to realize that we cannot afford anymore! Live within your means Clinton School District and QUIT ASKING FOR MONEY!!!!

I don't think we're dealing with a conspiracy to manipulate the vote here. It was a close vote, and there was good reason to believe that there was a significant number of people who overlooked the question on the ballot. I see no harm in having another ref. question on the Feb. ballot. A lower voter turn out could work both ways, with both sides having equal opportunity to get "their side" the ballot box. Getting bogged down on this issue though ignores the real needs that the facilities on our district have. I for one, I think $200 property tax increase is well worth making much needed SECURITY changes, and the old climate control sys. are so inefficient. And the CES gym is also not good enough for the school population. I think as a community, we could all skip one meal at McDonalds a month and put the $16 towards giving our kids a more safe/comfortable learning environment.

billnewbe - I agree with you...they don't want the no vote to vote again that is why they chose February. Shame on the school board.

What they're not saying is that the November elections brought out a lot of voters. A February election will attract fewer voters, a lot fewer voters, which will give the pro-referendum crowd an opportunity to overwhelm the anti-referendum types with handouts at the schools targeted at parents. If they are careful, most who voted no won't even know the referendum is on the ballot again.
.
At one time there was some talk about forcing a taxing body, such as a school district, to wait 1 year after a referendum loss to bring the same or similar referendum to the voters again. This is why. A defeat only means try again soon for this, and most every other school board but a victory is final. They never accept a defeat as anything other than an inconvenient delay.

If they are not changing anything how can they present it again? Didn't the voters speak once?

Clinton School Board how about we do not want to pay an additional $200 in taxes a year for a school district that is unwilling to fix its internal issues such as nepotism and poor teaching. You lost the vote so bringing it back 3 months later with this economy is terrible management on your part.