stillgrowing1 and gamblerone:
I too was a supervisor to the guys who had 30+years in the plant. I couldn't have asked for a better crew. Yes, like everyone, they had their off days but for the most part, they did whatever was asked of them. They did the jobs that were assigned to them and they did it while thinking about product quality. They took pride in their work, they enjoyed being part of the team and they did work that most people wouldn't do or couldn't do. Either because of the physical demand of it or the dirty-ness of it. You are obviously allowed to say whatever is on your mind but this is one supervisor who was extremely happy with the crew that I was given, the job that they did and the impact that they have had on me. I will leave GM with a lot of fond memories and good friends.

www.Cool!_I_figured_out_how_to_write_in_...

www.Well_said_gamblerone.

stillgrowing1, If you were a good supervisor, then you would have done somthing about work values and people taking naps. Could be you have no work values yourself, or you work for Aramark.

Buying foreign is largely to blame for our country's problems today. While you are pushing Toyota, Honda, Kia's do you realize the profit go back to Japan or wherever? The profits do not stay in the country. Further more, has anyone ever saw the report of how much any of those car companies gave to the disaster 9/11. Look at the Salvation Army, Echo, United Way, Boy's & Girl's Club campaigns, they are concerned about the drop in their amounts for the coming year with the plant closing. Whether you like the plant here or not, the GM employees & the UAW were generous to this community, and there are lots of them that do not even live in this town but spend money at the restaurants, gas stations and stores. Not quite sure if people get that!

Toyota sales down 34%, Honda over30. You have to have a great credit score to get 0%, not just anybody qualifies. Going to 0% shows how bad things are.

factcheck said: "Even Toyota, and Honda, are not selling now. Their buyers cannot get loans either..."

Not completely true. Toyota and Honda are still offering low or no interest rate financing through their own finance arms. How could you miss the Toyota "saved by zero" commercials, or all the print advertising? Contrary to popular belief, financing has not completely dried up.

Just as a sidelight, the Jobs Bank that you union bashers are criticizing lately was a company offered plan, not a union request. They wanted a ready pool of labor when the economy was in a good period. Every benefit the union gets comes from negotiating something else away. It is not a one way street as some people seem to think.

Anybody receiving unemployment, GM worker or not, can make a certain amount of money and still get a full unemployment check. It is calculated using your weekly wage, the same as the unemployment check is calculated. What I find indefensible, is that a worker who is also a full time student, will not get any unemployment even though his employer still has to pay into the fund for him/her. Another rip off to someone who is trying to better their life by hard work. I have a question, where will your next auto come from if the Big Three go out of business? They still supply half of the vehicles sold in this country. The foreign makers cannot possibly supply the missing volume of cars needed, even in a downturn economy like we have now. And, you know what happens when the demand outstrips the supply, the prices take a large leap upwards. Another consequence to ponder.

Cracker - are you defending companies leaving the US? I wonder how the next generation will support their families. Most of the reasons plants move out of the US, THINK GREED!! These companies make more money because they pay those people very low wages and in unsafe working conditions. Are you watching which countries your food comes from? And OSHA... OMG! Do you know OSHA looks over what goes on in some of these companies to protect the worker. There could be something in WD 40 that someone has adverse effects from. That MSDS would sure come in handy to know what the ingredients are in this product. What about asbestos? Remember that? Symptoms that may not show up for years! You'd be surprised what's in some of the products used everyday by people in their workplaces. If you're suggesting that is ok for these companies to pull out of US, it's not necessarily those things. It's greed on their part. How much do you think the CEOs and upper management worry about anyone's safety as long as it isn't theirs? Careful what you ask for...

Can anyone explain how this sub pay works. For any other laid off person, receiving unemployment pay, if they got payments from their employer their unemployment would be reduced or eliminated. Seems rightfully so. However, somehow, GM workers are able to collect both unemployment and pay from their employer. How does that happen?

Now that the jobs bank is history GM/UAW look at subpay reductions.

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/arti...

I really think that some of you that continually write into these columns must be bored unhappy people. Possibly the same kind of people who look for any negative thing to happen so they can throw in a dig here and there. If you think this will just affect the people that work at GM and Lear, think again. Wait until the restaurants start closing, the Mall stores start suffering more yet, even the Drs and dentist offices will not be seeing as many people without insurance coverage. There will definitely be a snowball effect but I am sure that won't affect you or your families, right? Why be so cruel?? Ya just never know ...

fatchecks: amen!!!

UAW worker, $28 an hour, transplant worker virtually the same. The supposed difference comes from health care and retirement for almost 800,000 retirees. Now beginning workers make $14 an hour, and have no defined pension. They have a 401k, and are swinging in the wind like the rest of the savers in this economy. Differences in quality are very small, the perception of quality is the big difference now. If the workers stopped being paid, the cost of producing a vehicle would go down 5%. People wanted SUV`s and trucks, that`s why the companies were building them. Oil companies make large profits, but only make 8 to 10% on their total income. If you want to talk obscene profits try pharmaceutical (19%) companies. Just a few facts here for a change. And, stillgrowing1, if you knew the things you talk about were happening, and didn`t do your job, you have no right to say anything derogatory about anybody else`s work habits. And don`t try to say the union had a stranglehold over you, that is not true. Your boss was the biggest slacker at that place, he was virtually invisible, and had no backbone or desire to do anything but collect a paycheck. The union, GM, workers (contract workers included) were all at fault over the years. But the economy is causing the biggest problem now. The steps the UAW and GM, Ford, Chrysler took in the last two contracts would bring them in line with the foreign competition. Even Toyota, and Honda, are not selling now. Their buyers cannot get loans either, even from the banks that got bailouts to do specifically that type of credit availability. Bank of America took our money and invested it in a Chinese company.They also took over another big bank, and got their bailout billions. AIG paid big bonuses, and lavish getaways. Just citing the FACTS here, anybody can find them, if they really want to.

Cathy924- Are You smoking crack? Average american auto worker making $72,000.00 dollars? In My 22 yrs. with G.M. I never made $72,000.00, not even back in the 1990's SUV boom, do a little more research.

momo-never been to a kilt before. looks like a big sports bar on the web site though. video has been done for awhile.pay per veiw and movies by mail killed it.as far as photo, digital cameras are'nt helping photo either.rolling with the punches,i guess.the world is full of changes,you just have to be willing to adapt to the changes.by making changes.

www--I'vve been called worse than an idiot. And, you are right, I was coming across as one--and an insulting one at that. But, my point was made. As for "the kilt"...ever been to one? There are now 2 in Madison (a former TGIFridays and former Damon's). Food is good. Price is a bit high. Ambiance sucks. "Sight seeing" is mediocore--at best (from a woman's perspective, of course!). LOL
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PS--When did Woody's get rid of video? I heard they are taking photo out too (or maybe already did).

momo- relax,i was just messing with you. you have a good memory though.{the kilt}. sorry if i offended you.

www--LOL. Judging that you want a Titled Kilt in Janesville, I would say you are the idiot. And, by the way, way to come across mature by resorting to calling names. Doesn't feel good when an outsider thinks they know what goes on in "your" company does it...

I know rascal. Embarrassing, ain't it?

The rest of the world is just astonished that so many people in America actually wish on their felow citizens, poverty and despair.What has this generation done but undo everything that was inheirated from the greatest generation? How sad and tragic for our children

Instead of bailing out all these massive corporations so that their exec's can go on spa weekends, why not give that money to the citizens of the US? We will be able to pay OUR bills,debt will decrease, we will increase spending, and then abacadabra! Our economy is back!

Egalindo, I agree with you in part but there are many reasons other than money that jobs go overseas. EPA, OSHA, FMLA, UNIONS…… the list goes on and on. I deal with OSHA all the time and some of the requirements are costly and completely unnecessary. A small can of WD-40: MSDS on file for 30 years, kept in a fire proof cabinet, inspections done all the time, a few full time people just to deal with regulations. FMLA: an employee once approved for FMLA can take off whenever they want and the company can’t do anything. I could list thousands of bs regulations that companies deal with every day that cost them big $$$$. Labor is the biggest expense but when you look at that and the headache of running a business in the United States, you may come to the same conclusion to move out.

While the workers in this society are bickering about who gets crumbs from the owners, the owners are working deals out to make more money on our backs. Just think about it. There is no more welfare for the workers in this society, but there is welfare aka bailouts for the owners. The GM worker represents all of the workers in the society and the message that big money is sending is that workers will earn less for the same work. Why? Because their business owners (like those of GM) make more money when they employ workers in other countries and because there are no sanctions on foreign products sold here and workers buy products made in China. We have to see our contribution to this mess and then unite as workers...otherwise what is the incentive for the owners to change?

Guys: Decertify the UAW. Sooner or later one of the threatened GM plants is going to do this, and GM will probably reward it with a new product. A non-union job is better than no job at all. In fact, a non-union job is where most of you are heading right now anyway. You have nothing to lose at this point!

momo- yes i do. they look like you, a idiot.

anomouse:
Yes; you are dead on. The polls have turned big time AGAINST this bailout/bridge to nowhere loan. It won't matter; however. The public was over 80% against the TARP bailout, and congress caved in to that sham, after the lobbyists for the big banks raised enough panic on how the country would suddenly be reduced to soup lines if it did not pass in a week. You are all kidding yourself, if you think these guys/gals u actually care about the average citizen.
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This bailout will happen, and MANY MANY more bailouts will happen after that. 41 states (including ours) are ALL READY lobbying congress to get their bailout as they are HEAVY in the red, and God forbid they would actually CUT SPENDING. Trust me, EVERYONE is getting bailed out, and it will be the doom of the economy down the road when the national debt collapses us.

www...exactly! I haven't. I don't shop at Woodman's. See what happens when someone assumes they know the goings on of a company when they don't.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/03/news/eco... Link is for the CNN poll.
People get your news from more than one source. The gazette only likes to rile people up and pit the non-GM worker against the GM worker. Most news sites and blogs show the public is against this, but the public was also against the 700 billion bank bail out too. Congress doesn't care what we think.

momo- when was the last time you went to woodmans? video clerk? there are no video clerks,becouse there is no video department.meat department using grease pens? have'nt seen that either.hmmm!!!

Mom when I stated that the autoworker had it way to good down there I was not singling out just the line worker. The top excutives along with the UAW reps are just as much to blame. I would dare say that I am also to blame. I bought many of those overly priced vehicles that supported those overly high wages. It is the American fascination of the automobile. That said no one has persuaded me to change my mind on the fact that we should loan money to a entity that may or may not survive because of poor decisions made by everyone involved. I can not in good conscious agree to this loan. Another poster wrote that 61% of the population agrees. I am not sure if that statistic is correct or not, but does it matter. There are companies out there that are closing their doors for good everyday. Some of them probably deserved to close because of bad decisions. As I see; in my own humble opinion, the big three along with the UAW have a choice. Those companies could be employee owned. If the employees are unwilling to invest their own money why should I as a taxpayer be forced to?

momof5 exactly what I've been trying to say that everyone is hurting.

I don't think we can bail out GM and not everyone else and we can't afford to bail out any of them

PS--jonwayne--the $4 gas did prompt them...they went down to 1 shift, slimmed down production, increased down time and ULTIMATELY closed what was it 7? 9? ENTIRE plants......
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It's not just the auto industry who is hurting. Dupont and AT&T laid off I think nearly 10,000 of their workforce today. DHL. Shopko. Steve & Barry's. Linens 'n Things. An entire national retail development group has now gone bankrupt. Tumbleweed. Starbucks. NO industry is immune to this economy and I'm sorry...but NO ONE saw this coming. My accountant called the other day and his only clients who are having banner years? Bars. Drink up, jonny!

jonwayne: you're not a spelling bee champ either honey.

angel: fair enough. Just wasn't very fair to throw the average line worker in there: it's not their doing solely. I'm neither for or against the bailout, to be honest. I think it is a very slippery slope to tread on by approving bailout after bailout to these large corporations. However, I do fear what the aftermath will be WHEN the Big 2.8 fail without some sort of intervention. It might not be as horrific as some predict, but there isn't going to be a sector who will come out unscaffed. And, at a time when our economic state is so fragile and volatile, I'm not sure the markets can take another devastation: major or minor!
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BTW--Taxes schmaxes. Our hard-earned tax money is funding a lot worse than the Big 2.8 and their 25 (or 34) billion loan. Pretty sure your tax money is buying the President's tighty whities. Pretty sure your tax money is funding a war that really can't be won. Pretty sure your tax money is keeping convicted child molesters and killers alive with three hots and a cot for years and years. AND...there's ZERO chances those things are going to get paid back....EVER.
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The sooner we deviate from "my money" and turn the focus to "our country" the better off we will all be. We can elect a President who promises hope and change until he is blue in the face. But, until we stop spelling team with a capital I, nothing will change for the better.

What do you mean - How can they do this to us , $78 a hour or $20 a hour , VS. NOTHING !! Stop crying and suck it up . give up half and most are still overpaid compaired to US POOR Folk making $50,000 a year or less , $4 gas should have prompted someone to pull there head out of there behind . I Saw it coming and I am NOt a CEO

Glad to see a COUPLE of people here have half common sense on the truth. Many of those workers have had the union in their lives forever!!! So those of you that speak the half truths.... I wish you would shut up. How people here can be so nasty/jealous especially at this time of year troubles me. The comment about the possbility of not opening the local contract is because the people here in Janesville VOTED and gave the best contract out there for all the GM plants. If you don't work there you have NO business in their affairs. Do we all publically know the facts of everything that goes on at Mercy, Blackhawk, Lab Safety should I go on??? Think about the total affect here, and if you can't see the real picture may I suggest you wipe the sand from your eyes!!! Good luck to those first handedly involved.

SarahB: I commend you for that. There are not many who would do that. Of course this is not a thriving global or domestic economy right now. My point was that different jobs at different pay and different levels is what makes the wheels turn--even if they wheels are turning VERY slowly as of late :(

61 % of the population is against this loan.

Mom compare it any way you want. But it boils down to this, that if they want to survive it should be of their own doing. Not the American taxpayer. I like many people across the US say no to the loan to the big three.

Thriving global economy? Where? Am I missing something here? (By the way, Momof5, I don't work at GM, but just last week I told my boss that I would take a cut in pay if needed.)

anounomouse: I noticed that today too. Started at 25 now it's at 34. Not going to bode very well and probably one of the stupidest moves they could have made. Of course new sales figures and budgetary reports probably came out since their first trip to the Hill. But, it's all about image and perception right now. You can't trim the fat off your budgets, offer to work for $1/yr (CEOs) and get rid of excess extravagancces (ie jets) and then come back and ask for more money! What ever PR person came up with that should be the first expense slashed in the next round of budget cuts!

Who determines that a wage is just and fair? Is it fair that a nurse's aide gets paid LESS than a school lunch lady? Is it fair that, during a normal and healthy Holiday season, I make in one month what most make in 12? Is it fair that a first year teacher, on average, will make less than a waitress working 40 hours/week? How about going to the mechanic...is it fair that the consumer pays, on average, $65/hr for labor while the tech who works on your car MAYBE gets paid 1/4 that amount? How about Joe the Plumber who makes more than Nurse Nancy who saves lives every day. Is it fair that Rick Wagoner will still have a job December 23 at 3:49, while thousands at GM Janesville and other plants will not? My answer: yes and no. It is what makes the free markets work and a global economy thrive and flourish. Get over it, get over your petty hostility and get over yourselves.

angel: you are trying to marry two totally different subjects: the pay of the autoworker & the state of the company for whom they work for. It's kind of like marrying your cousin: while similar, it isn't the same as the real thing.
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Don't sit behind your keyboard & say that the employees should take over the company & run it how they want or that they should offer up a pay decrease. Sounds noble, doesn't it? Give me a break! I don't care if you make $28/hr or $8/hr, the majority of folks today are NOT going to voluntarily take a pay cut without a lot of whooping and hollering (not to mention the legalities of it). I have an employee right now that is worth about half what I'm paying. They know sales are down (hours have already been cut) and know that in all likelihood, they will be without employment after January 1. But, I don't see them lining up at my office door to say "Gee, ya know boss lady, I really like working here and I'm just grateful to even have a job. How about you take 1/4 of my hourly pay and reinvest it in the business?! Really. I insist. It's for the betterment and longevity of the company: even if I have to sacrifice in the short-term." Not in today's world. It's a dog-eat-dog world nowadays. Survival of the fittest or the strongest or the smartest.
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YOU go to your boss tomorrow and not only offer but demand a pay decrease: take on for the proverbial team. No? Why? Oh. You are paid a deserving unexorbant wage, and therefore you don't feel this applies to you. Forget your boss and the horse they rode in on. It's not your fault they mismanage the company's financial assets. Gotcha. Don't ask others to do what you yourself are unwilling to do.
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Woodman's pays their employees pretty darn well. I mean, really. Considering what they do, right?. It can't be THAT hard to scan milk, bread and eggs, hit subtotal and tender out a transaction. My 1st grader can wrap a slab of meat up in white butcher paper and write on it in grease pencil (and it'd be legible too). I mean, seriously, now. You mean someone who is working at the video counter scanning in movies and doesn't have an education is REALLY worth $15/hour, a pretty impressive version of a 401k, decent benefits, and pretty standard working conditions. REALLY? The checker at Woodman's is MORE deserving of their pay than the checker at Sentry? The video clerk at Woodman's can command a higher wage than the clerk at Blockbuster because why? How do you self-proclaimed economists on here account for Woodman's clerks (GM workers) being paid MORE than Blockbuster clerks (Toyota workers) but yet, Blockbuster's prices are HIGHER?
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I apologize for using Woodman's as an example. I mean NO disrespect. But, you can see how fast your ire level goes up and how quick the claws come out when someone starts spewing out false perceptions and demeaning you without ever walking even a step in your shoes.

YAWN. ZZZZZZZZZZ

Waving emphatically at the editors: What happened to the bankruptcy/pension article??? I've seen you shut down comments, but up and delete an entire url for an entire article? Wow. Was it something I said. LOL

First off Joan, I believe no one wants to see them lose their jobs unless they abused the system so much that they deserve it. No one can argue the fact that they are very well paid for the type of job they perform. So why should we bail them out and not every other company that has too close or has closed? The autoworker has it way to good down there. They have it better than the rest of us and you feel that we should help them out. Why? If they want to survive the employees should buy out the company and run it like they want.

Well put, Joan. The times they are a changin.
It is no good for anyone to have people lose their jobs, but most everyone here has seen that cocky rooster strut from the auto assembler with a few bucks in his pocket and no skills. That does not contribute to good p.r.

I don't think people are being jerks for not wanting to bailout GM. We ALL work hard for our money and we can't afford anymore bailouts, The way the economy is going no one can afford to buy any non essentials so the loan will not be repaid. Also the amount of money the obese 3 wants keeps going up.

Hey - you know what I think - to all of you jerks who have been saying mean things to people who are losing their jobs and suffering loss of benefits and possibly their retirement funds? I say you will reap what you sow and when you lose your job and end up feeling sad, I guess the universe will pay you back and have everyone laugh at you and say they are glad you are hurting.

You people who are evil and jealous and malign the GM worker - you are paving your way to hell. Unless you say something supportive on this blog to these poor employees, then don't say anything at all.

GM has spit out continuous propoganda against the GM worker in the media and so many feeble minds have believed it. GM workers are the ONLY workers that are treated poorly by the media because they want to destroy the union and reduce everyone's benefits outside of the union and let corporations rule. Good job! You have become the spawn and pawns of evil corporations. They don't have to tear them down - you do it for them.

Kiss the gravey train good by you will be lucky if you make it to sping with the sub-pay, Where is all the mighty group of people that went to GM and asked to save the janesville plant,they should be up on on capital hill asking the GOVERMENT to keep janesville open ?????????AND WHY DIDN'T THE HEAD OF GM TELL THEM OF THE BIG BANKRUPT COMING.
HMMMMMMMMMMM.

There's an old adage, 'You reap what you sow.' It plays hand in hand with another adage, 'It takes two to tango.' No one is innocent; even the consumer played a role in this mess.

There has been an eternal mentality at GM that say's everyone should point the fingers at everyone else.
I supervised some of the most senior employees at GM Janesville.
They made no apologies in telling me that they were millionaires. They were 30+ years in, and had little value from one day to the next.
They even showed me where they went to take their naps. This was going into the cost of every vehicle that rolled off the line.
When an extra 1 cent is charged for a vehicle, We've been overcharged.

10% I think that you might have smoked one too many on the line.

10% of the cost of a car goes to the salary of the person making the car.
50% of the cost of the car goes to the cost of parts
40% of the cost of the car goes to ???

The corporation... CEO's private planes, lunchrooms, golf outings, etc...

Obviously some of the 40% goes to advertising, perhaps shipping the cars but think about the salaries of the CEO's and how much goes/went to them.

Stop blaming the UAW for this issue. Management screwed up and now management is screwing them - the union worker/retiree.

Pathetic.

Janesville CAN GET GM BACK. Decertify the union. This will draw national attention and most likely a new product for Janesville. Think about it GM workers: What do you possibly have to lose at this point??

The UAW has seemed for a long time like a parasitic train that could run rampantly out of control. I enjoyed the fact that congress is where the buck stops.
Though I'm still amazed at their inability to accept reality. I think that even more "concessions" are going to happen on March 31 when the company's have to report their lack of success.
All of this assumes though that congress doesn't force bankruptcy.

Perhaps the remaining GM workers should give Phil Woodman a call and ask for some help in decertifying the UAW?

Yeah, things must have gotten pretty testy after I saw it last.

Wow, the Gazette deleted the entire article about pension benefits?

Irishlady4ev - I don't have enough time or space to educate you on Labor relations. The position of the UAW is not to provide income to you, it is to negotiate contracts, and guarantee that they are carried out to the extent of their verbage. You are responbile for your income. Why would the UAW pay you back because you lost your job? The montly amount paid in is to offset the cost of what I just explained. There is a small fund that is saved for strike times, but the amount paid each week is minimum at best. The strike pay is really what the Union thinks you are worth. That is why it is so small.

This measure by the UAW is far better than the alternative, which would be bankruptcy by GM. If GM goes bankrupt all the contracts come off the table for everyone. Pensions would likely be cut drastically and benefits reduced for everyone. Wages would likely have to be renegotiated for everyone. I think the union is trying to avoid that scenario. Granted, it is still bad news, but the alternative is far worse. Though I will say that I don't believe a bailout by our government is going to help GM unless consumers attitudes toward GM improve. Right now it appears as though a majority of Americans (not tied to the industry) want to see the giant go belly up. Taking my loyalty to GM and being a former UAW worker out of the equation, as an objective observer, I think they would be better off filing for bankruptcy to shut everyone the heck up and get a clean start. People need to back off from GM and start buying American based cars or this will all be for nothing regardless of bankruptcy or federal aid. GM has some great cars and trucks out there, but the constant pounding by the press is overlooking any positives on GM's behalf.

Should we start a contest to see who can predict when the Gazette will shut down this discussion, too?

Everything the union leaders say they're willing to give up today they intend to reclaim ASAP. In January, when their friends the democrats have nearly total control, we can expect the union leaders to change their tune about most of those concessions while expecting their political allies, those who have received union campaign contributions for decades, to fall in line and support their union friends with legislation and maybe even more money with as few strings attached as is politically feasible. The only reason they offer concessions now is because GM's need is immediate and there are a lot of lame ducks in congress that have suddenly realized they need not compromise anymore.

How can you honor a contract if you are broke? If GM goes bankrupt, the contracts are null and void. The creditors will get first pick, and the rest is what will be left to run the company.

Didn't any of you people learn anything in the PEL classes? Or did you look at the PEL as a time to sleep off the brew from the night before?

Breach of contracts is a legal matter I think? Stand your ground and dont allow them to cheat you out of what you worked hard for and paid dearly into. I as summer help paid into the UAW for 5 Plus years, Knowing I would not get anything back as I was temporary. But the ones who were permenant deserve their contracts to be honored!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now look at what your union you paid into can do They sit on 4. billion of the workers money and you lose as they will do what they want and nothing can change it. nothing is in stone with anyone and it is sad........ The UAW will prosper and the hard workers will fall into the cracks of corruption. I believe in unions when they are for the workers but lately UAW has been self serving IMO. The money we as union workers pay in should at times like this be brought back to us. Isnt that what a union is for, to protect its workers when these type of things happen? Oh well another set back for the working people.

laughwuvlive - you are not doing your UAW brothers and sisters any favors with your 3rd grade rhetoric. Nobody is responsible for your future except yourself. The UAW is making decisions on what is best for all, not just a select few (you). Accept it, and move on.

laughwulive, find it an interesting take that you feel the union "did this to you" since it was due to the union employees that GM did not produce s**t products so remained in business for all these years...from my perspective of someone on the outside looking in, you're right, the union did due to this you in that they negotiated contracts (and you voted on them)to allow the average union worker's pay to be approx $72,000 whereas Toyota's average workers pay is $42,000 - and, for the $30k difference, it's interesting how their workers are happy and their product ranks either 1st or 2nd in sales, with Honda holding the other ranking. Greed always loses.

First - Zoom the contract Dohner is referring to is the local contract. The JOBS bank is part of the national contract.

Second - Blood, stand up for what? What will they stand for when the company is bankrupt and closed? Don't be ignorant. This is a serious case of survival, and no time to be selfish and wonder who is going to protect YOUR job. This is more of helping the economy as a whole.

It is absolutely funny how the UAW has changed their rhetoric over the last two weeks. Two weeks ago, their only statement was that they were not going to give ANYMORE up, as they already did in the last national contract. 2 weeks later, after large amounts of national public backlash against their greed, they have now determined they need to be proactive and work togther to save the company. I have worked closely with local UAW officials and it is somewhat rewarding to see them comply and be subservant to the issues at hand. More often, I have had to withstand their entitlement behavior and attitudes. 2 weeks ago, it was evident their position was so far disconnected from the reality, it almost cost them a public bailout.

WOW, I can not believe the union would do this to us. If it were not for the union, GM would of been done a long time ago because of us union people that would not let s........ quality be sent to our customers. I called upon the union lots to say hey management wants to let this go.
I cared and now I feal sold out, cheated and then some. So much for caring. I really hope I get called back, see what kind of quality they send threw now, cause I could care less

The story indicates that Gettelfinger will eliminate the jobs bank, but Dohner said the UAW is "unlikely" to renegotiate it's local contract. Which will really happen? Is Dohner trying to delay the bad news, or is the vote on concessions just a tactic to molify Congress until a bailout is approved?

Not only do the hard workers at the Janesville plant lose their job, but now they lose benefits already negotiated AND their tax dollars will be used to provide GM with a multi billion dollar bailout!!! Who is going to stand up for Janesville and it's GM workers now??? Mike? Paul? Herb? Russ? City Council?

You know how bad things are when the UAW will make concessions on anything.

Now what do we think of the UAW?
A lot of union dues paid for benefits that based on this story don't sound like they will benefit from.