stout66:
MANY did see it coming. Myself, and quite a few others, have been short selling GM stock for years, and cashing in while it collapses. Like everything, you just rarely hear about the few in the minority who call things far in advance. No one pays attention till things happen in the PRESENT, and then everyone says, "how come no one saw this," when the fact is many did, just no one listened.

I read on previous posts that somebody stated that Prime Quarter, Old Navy, and JCPenny are closing in Janesville. Anybody have evidence or know truthfully of any others soon to close?

OK these people that did vote Bush in, I sure wouldn't brag about it. McCain was walking in his shadow. Did you see the Bush's smiling and telling about their new house they purchased in the richest area in TX? Bush with his cocky smile talking about cooking burgers and just hanging around. He should be ashamed after this country is in this mess that he sits up bragging about what his plans are! Of course it should be no surprise after the last 8 years!

that was my point.

stoutt: Everyone else paying their employees half? For the most part, Ford, GM and Chrysler's pay scales nearly mimic each other. And, half? Where? Silao Mexico? More like a quarter. But, if you are referring to the "transplants" who are assembling Toyotas and Hondas here in the US, I certainly hope you aren't a math teacher because their pay is far from only half of what their Big 2.8 counterparts.

adrian: Do you not realize that this is BIGGER than 3 tiny companies with fat cat CEOs going belly up? It's like a sumo wrestler doing a belly flop in a wading pool...the splash is felt far away and there's a lot of damage to go with it. PS--the auto industry are not the only ones with high paid execs. Your jealousy and ignorance are blinding.

nurse4u & tom1 - OK so the gov gives us 'bailout' money and not the corps that employ millions of people. Then the corps go bankrupt and millions more get laid off. How long do you think this 'bailout' will pay the bills of these millions with no income. We'd be right back where we are in months.

let em fail the big 3 needs to be taught a lesson, get rid of the execs and all the high paid CEOs, start over with the hole ball game, new wages, new management exc. maybe if they all start out being paid like most of all the other hard working people in america then people would start buying cars and trucks again.
Enough is enough START OVER

Though times all over the world, even for Honda. http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/081205/f1_honda_...

I want my "vette" back...
Chevette that is.... :0)

I remember hearing once in one of my business classes that GM would lose money on every S-10 and Cavalier it sold, but would make the difference up for selling the Tahoes and Yukons. They didn't see this coming? How long did they think they could make it when everybody else building cars is paying their employees half? I just don't understand why nobody saw this coming years ago?

gonefishing-that is exactly what I was saying! R.I.P. to that Riveria
I REALLY want a 1966 Chevelle...one of these days...

I laugh when I hear "profits go over seas"
UHHHH, WHAT PROFITS????
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Profit = the monetary surplus left to a producer or employer after deducting wages, rent, cost of raw materials, etc.
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Last I checked, GM L-O-S-T about $4 BILLION in one quarter! Their balance sheet is ENTIRELY RED. Their stock has dropped over 90% in 5 years. The dividend has been slashed to nearly zero, their credit is so bad that they would be turned down for a Sears card! So maybe before you want to throw out these bumper sticker statements, please tell me just what profits you are talking about here? I really want to know

Only the good die young,why didn't you save her?? I have a 71 year young chrysler,still rollin rollin,would love to be buried in it,that's how much LOVE i have for the AMERICAN cars. R.I.P. RIVIERA!!

ok let me get this straight nurs4u you're telling me that we let these massive corps go down which are gonna lay off workers which means they will have no job to pay their bills or extra money to spend and that will help our economy how? Explain.

A moment of silence for my 1966 Riviera with the 454 Wildcat engine and four barrel carb. 425 cubic inches, 325 honest horsepower, 12 mpg...

It doesn't matter how much money you anti americans give to the foreign countries,they will always hate us,and maybe some day,they will use your money to build a bomb to end us. But you jap. drivers can't think beyond yourselves!

I have an aversion to foreign brands. I have two Chevy's that I bought new and a Buick that I bought used. If everyone bought the brands that I do, there would be much less of a problem with the US auto industry. I was always especially fond of my 1966 Buick Riviera, but after 175K I had to put her down. A sad day.

Propaganda is an effective tool for controlling the masses.

Level Field Institute? Give me a break. Next you'll be trying to convince me that creation science is legitimate. Calling Dr. Gish...

Instead of bailing out all these massive corporations so that their exec's can go on spa weekends, why not give that money to the citizens of the US? We will be able to pay OUR bills,debt will decrease, we will increase spending, and then abacadabra! Our economy is back!

There is no such thing as a foreign vehicle made in the US. There are many foreign made GM vehicles being offered for sale in the US. As far as profits going to foreign countries, the profits go to the share holders wherever they may be. Contrary assessments are propaganda.

I like your way of thinking! Never say never,and can't is not an option!

How much would it cost to retool the Plant? Understanding that there is going to be some major wage concessions placed on our workforce, how many of our current employees would be willing to work under the new program? Sink or Float our local options are extremely limited. This is the time when we as a community should all come together and get this horse back on its feet before we have to shoot it. There is $25 billion for retooling how big of a voice does Local 95 have? Somebody needs to stand up and say "We are ready Now!" We have seen the failure, lets show the world what we are made of. The changes and sacrifices we make now is going to pave the road into future for all our children,we need to focus on them not ourselves.

woodsman,
What is a "foreign" vehicle?

Is it a Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Subaru, Hyundai or Mercedes made in the U.S.?
Or, is it a Chevy, Ford or Chrysler made in Mexico, Canada, Korea or Australia?

Are vehicles foreign because tens of thousands of Americans build them, but the profits go to a foreign country, so they can build more factories here?
Or, are vehicles foreign because a few thousand Americans sell a vehicle made outside the U.S., but the profits go to the Big 2.8, so they can build factories in China and India, while closing factories here?

These "foreign" companies are doing a better job at keeping the middle class dream alive. I hope that GM will do what is necessary to be competitive again, but judging by Rick Wagoners arrogance and track record, I fear they won't be able to.

Even though I think American cars are on par or better than most foreign models the public perception is different. The big three need to get someone from Harley Davidson to do their marketing. Harley is the only case where I’ve seen people willing to pay twice as much for an inferior product.

The only thing that forces companies out of this country are the tentacles of a big, over bloated, government that imposes ultra high taxes, ridiculous mandates, and endless regulations.

Cars were here before planes.How long before the plane companies get forced out of this country? or any,or all of the government contractors? But the way the american people are going,& letting our life lines to this country get kicked to the curb,we won't have to worry about our government,because some other country will govern us. Check it out and see just how much these other countries,already OWN of our lands!!

I take some of that back. Most people have been supportive...........and then there are THOSE PEOPLE

Well,all those with jobs and resources....make fun of angelwings one more time!! I tried to help and got crapped upon!! Now,because of my WONDERFUL neighbors,I cant even GIVE stuff away from my own home to help those in need!!!!!

Retool an auto factory for a war???...haha
What century are you living in? I guess Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, GE, Boeing, Raytheon, general Dynamics, ext are not our top defense contractors post WWII.
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GM's real hope in saving their company actually relies in China. Read their own financial guidance statements. Thats the only place they are currently making $$$, and where sales are actually increasing.

Why the need to repeat,but some hard heads just don't listen. Check the history of this country,unions made this country develope a middle class,by giving and honest days pay,for an honest day of work. Maybe you haters would love to see no more american cars made here,wouldn't that make you feel like you live in another country,to only see foreign vehicles here? Wouldn't anyone of you think maybe these other countries are taking over your country? Just what if we were to have another big war,if you people get your way,we might have to retool some auto factory in say japan,to make us bombs,military vehicles,shells,and so on,to fight our wars. This could happen with you so called anti americans,that don't care if "ALL" our good paying jobs go over sea's. Maybe when it's all said and done,we'll have to bow to some foreign countries empire,because some other country "OWNS" US!

I agree and I didn't vote for him.

Shamesville: Are you having a stroke?! What are you talking about? I am very confused. (Hell, maybe I am having a stroke.)

I'm with red....

I third what Red said.

I never thought I'd see the day that Rick Wagoner, the CEO of what was formerly one of the largest corporations in the world, beg for table scraps just like my dog. The chairman of GM sitting up on his hinders begging like a pathetic dog. Don't be taken in by it. As plants close and hundreds of thousands lose their jobs will the banks give you a break on your credit cards or mortgage? No way. The only way to get this economy going again is through trickle up economics NOT trickle not economics. After you and I are bailed out of our home loans, our auto loans, our credit card bills, etc. then and only then should the government be concerned about bailing out huge, greedy financial institutions and totally corrupt companies.

Woodsman: Try to calm down, buddy. Your frustration is coming through loud and clear in your last post. I am afraid you might have a stroke soon. I have absolutely no ties to GM, but I have a real fear over what will happen next if Congress doesn't help the automakers. And, I think their loan request should come out of the financial institutions' bailout funds. That $700 billion bailout was pushed through by Chicken Little riding a fast-moving train. I'm backing the automakers on this one.

Obviously Congress doesn't know anything if they are seriously entertaining the idea of blowing more taxpayers money.

Obviously Chrysler isn't learning from their mistakes if they asked for, and received, a bailout 30 years ago. Sure it was paid back. But, you coulnd't have learned that much if you are back with your hands out again!

The point everyone is missing is that the economy sucks. No one is buying anything that isn't essential. GM can't afford to keep people working right now. Thats not just bashing its the truth. I am sorry people are losing their jobs but it reaches farther than just the auto industry and I don't think the taxpayers should be bailing out anyone else. We just did a huge bailout for the banks. We can't afford anymore bailouts. The thing that gets me about the UAW workers is how high they are paid yet they don't think about the rest of the world that doesn't make that wage who will be footing the bill. Enough is Enough. NO MORE GOV"T BAILOUTS FOR ANYONE.

I see the devil has let the haters out again: I wish you people would just go away! Money does make some people act different,but not all. So if i'm to understand you right,"ALL" G.M. people are drunks & druggies,if that is so,how in the he-- do they get anything done?? Being stoned doesn't quit when walking back from dinner,does it? I've had G.M.'s all my life, loved the 283's,go 200,000 with maybe a carb. rebuild,& a fuel pump,so that's a bad product? I DON'T THINK SOOOOOOO!

There is nothing wrong people making a high wage, however it is way over inflated to be business smart. In order to keep up with payroll they have to raise the prices of the cars and trucks they make. They also skimp on quality using many many suppliers to see who can deliver the goods the cheapest. Well in this country you get what you pay for so if GM is skimping it shows in their products.

No they already plan on closing dealerships and more plants even if it's approved.

Let's say that the bailout does go through. Will Janesville's plant stay open?

Snarly don't you know by now that Union workers are the bomb and the rest of us are only good enough to have our taxes prolong GM's bankruptcy so the union workers can continue to drink and get stoned?

Mr. Garyprimer, I should have said the middle class sooner or later won't exsist. The gready one's on top want it all! You will either be rich or you will be poor. One thing I don't understand is why as American's would we want the U.S. auto industry to fail? Why wouldn't we want the forein companies fail? I don't want to see anyone fail, but as a U.S. citizen, why would I want the U.S. auto industry to fail!!!!!!!!! Everyone is complaining about the (bailout) loan and that the tax payers have to pay for this, but another thing I don't understand is that we pay for the criminal's in jail, we paid for the loan the congress gave to there rich buddies without a plan, garbage pick up, schools, roads that sometimes don't get plowed the list could go on. I know why people don't want to see this pass is because of the wages these people make. What is so wrong with people making a good wage? Someone please explain?

Unfortunately, even if given the money, GM intends to close something like 600 dealerships and nine more plants as a part of the bailout plan. This will be a lose lose scenario for everyone regardless of the outcome.

And you can't trust those crocks now that Steve Irwin is gone...

The rich get richier? Do the middle class get middlier? ;-)

It's a loan that won't be paid back if they don't get rid of the UAW and the overpaid executives and CEO's who get huge bonuses.

First of all this is a loan. Secondly,I see this as a classic example of class warfare,will the middle class survive? The
Middle class needs to fight with everything it has,as the rich get richier,
the poor get poorer this is fact!! I think this has to do with the hourly wage UAW members negotiated with GM. What is wrong with a good wage??? The answer is nothing! I hope the U.S.A. does not loose its blue and white collar middle class.

61% oppose this,how many people opposed the wall street bail out,a lot more then that! Think of the millions that wall street has put in their own pockets,if not billions. I think congress should find out where the money is,get it back,& send the crocks to jail that stole from the american people! Performance bonuses my A--,just another slippery way of wording things,they think were all dumb??