Not that Edsci can be expected to be accurate in his haste to ridicule as one would be as foolish as Edsci to do so, but here’s the opening title, sub-title and first paragraph of the Declaration of Independence where the word “God” is actually used, in spite of Edsci’s insistence that it is not. (Still, one must wonder does Edsci really think the term “Creator” refers to his parents? And just how does your parent endow you with unalienable rights? How ridiculous!)
“In CONGRESS, July 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America
When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation”.
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It was Thomas Jefferson who authored the Declaration of independence, not Thomas Paine. In “The Rights of Man” Paine argues that “natural” rights were irrevocable, granted by the “Creator”. Paine was a Deist, not an Atheist as Edsci ridiculously implies. Even in the “Age of Reason”, Paine upholds his belief in a Deity. Edsci’s ignorance of history disqualifies his dubious opinions of religion just as they negate his assertion of the origin of this nation which was founded by people of religious beliefs and prayer.

justsay~ I never said our forefathers were Christian! I said they set the Constitution up using Christian valued principles. Why can't people get that through their heads? People get so wrapped up in berating Christianity, they can't see beyond it. Just because the Christian principles were noble and worthy of building the foundation for this country doesn't mean we're a Christian nation! Open thine eyes and stop being blinded by what you don't understand!

edsci - So says the Preacher to his folk.

edsci - If you do not believe in God then it should not bother you that other people do. However, that does not seem to be the case. May I make the suggestion that if it bothers you so much, discontinue reading the posts.

Yes, without a doubt: our founding fathers were secularist - NOT! Why don’t YOU do some reading math? Maybe some of the founding fathers were atheists, but definitely not all or even a majority of them. There are MANY instances of the founding fathers invoking God in their speeches and writings. Look at the history of Patrick Henry, Sam Adams and John Hancock and you will find their religious connections. Google this quote and see who said it: "I have lived, Sir, a long time and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth -- that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without his aid?"

George Washington ordered Thanksgiving after a victory in battle, declaring "Let every face brighten, and every heart expand with grateful Joy and praise to the supreme disposer of all events, who has granted us this signal success." Even your posterboy, Thomas Jefferson, mentioned several times “divine providence’ in his speeches. I could go on, but you don’t seem stupid, so you could probably do the research yourself.

But here again is the example of your absoluteness: just as some of our founding fathers may and some may have not been secularists, they certainly afforded EVERYONE their right to speak what they believed without conviction. I can find no instance where they responded in the fashion that so many of you do. You act as if there is no gray area, responding in rudeness, without respect and without invitation.

tater~ agreed. Living in America is a privledge. Which is why our constitution was written by intellects who used Christian based principles to set up the laws of the land. This doesn't mean we're a Christian nation (all the vultures can ease up!) The principles gave us a foundation in which to build around and was put in place to hold our govt. accountable to the people. Everytime we go to the govt. and whine and lobby to have these principles negotiated because the laws don't fit our own personal agenda's, we give more and more power to the gov't over WE THE PEOPLE and that's an appetite for destruction. We're seeing the fallout from it today.

justsaynotomath: I’m not at all talking about having a good discussion or debate amongst people that respect each other. What I am tired of, and just don’t understand, is the need by atheists (at least on this board) to post unsolicited comments that are neither constructive nor considerate. Look at the first group of comments and I think you’ll find plenty examples of useless postings put forth by people who obviously think that they are the only ones who know the truth.

By the way, I think that your comment about speaking your mind just because “we live in America” is silly. Since when does living in America trump common courtesy? The last line in my earlier post still stands.

edsci and elementalvirago-My, My . . what a hoot! I thought that EVERYONE would know what I posted. Silly me, but thanks for the laugh!
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Eight-year-old Virginia O'Hanlon wrote a letter to the editor of New York's Sun, and the quick response was printed as an unsigned editorial Sept. 21, 1897. The work of veteran newsman Francis Pharcellus Church has since become history's most reprinted newspaper editorial, appearing in part or whole in dozens of languages in books, movies, and other editorials, and on posters and stamps.
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"DEAR EDITOR: I am 8 years old.
"Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus.
"Papa says, 'If you see it in THE SUN it's so.'
"Please tell me the truth; is there a Santa Claus?

"VIRGINIA O'HANLON.
"115 WEST NINETY-FIFTH STREET."
. . . No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.
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Corrected copy!

edsci and elementalvirago-My, My . . what a hoot! I thought that EVEYONE would know what I posted. Silly me, but thanks for the laugh!
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Eight-year-old Virginia O'Hanlon wrote a letter to the editor of New York's Sun, and the quick response was printed as an unsigned editorial Sept. 21, 1897. The work of veteran newsman Francis Pharcellus Church has since become history's most reprinted newspaper editorial, appearing in part or whole in dozens of languages in books, movies, and other editorials, and on posters and stamps.
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"DEAR EDITOR: I am 8 years old.
"Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus.
"Papa says, 'If you see it in THE SUN it's so.'
"Please tell me the truth; is there a Santa Claus?

"VIRGINIA O'HANLON.
"115 WEST NINETY-FIFTH STREET."
. . . No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.

God comes first in my life. It's a no brainer. The principles I live by are the one's my God layed out for me to follow, just as the same principles were layed out in our constitution for others to follow. When people chose to live by these principles rather than compromising them, our country was in much better shape. Just for the record, I'm not saying a person must believe in my God to live by these principles. The principles are worthy regardless of anyone's beliefs. The founding fathers were smart enough to instill these principles to save us from our own government. See what's happens when they're compromised? We're staring socialism right in the face and people are in denial. Don't believe me? Look at how many people and companies now, are looking for handouts these days. Just what uncle sam was counting on.

I dunno. So far in my short stint here on the Gaz I've been referred to as elementalvirgin (ha!), elementalviagra (LOL) and just plain ol' VIRGINIA (in CAPS even). The next one will probably be something I can't or shouldn't say on here, even though it's not a swear word, it might offend some people's delicate sensibilities as it also starts with a V and ends in an A.
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Uh, I know I know better than to ask but...I can't help it. Donkey wheel? I'm fairly certain I need to be a part of that.

MikeF - West Virginia is still there but where is East Virginia. I looked and looked and can't see it anywhere. ALSO PLEASE do not discuss the donkey wheel - here.

elementalvirago - What happened to Virginia? Did Ben turn the Frozen Donkey Wheel again?
Is there still a West Virginia? What about North Carolina? Or Maryland?

Why do non-believers feel that it’s their duty to spout their atheistic views on this topic or others like it? This is not a story about whether God is real or not. It is a story about a priest holding a service to give followers some hope in a time of desperation. Positive messages may not help you, but they may help someone else. What is it that makes a group of you seem to find the need to put forth your non-beliefs as absolute truth, and belittle those who have faith? What is the purpose of that? You sound ridiculous in a debate that has always been and probably always will be. Your attitudes show the decline of respect that Americans have come to show for each other.

justsome1here--who the hell is VIRGINIA?
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I guess the world really IS dreary now there there is no Virginia. (??)

I hear about people "praying" for a solution to "real world" problems all the time. These people always tell me "The Lord works in mysterious ways". And I always respond "Yes, that is exactly how I felt on 9-11-01". If God won't intervene in THAT situation, Good Lord Man, is he going to intervene to prevent a job loss in Janesville?? But then again, I think too much, and that is not an approved attribute of a "believer" in organized religion. On another note though, one time I prayed that I would get a pony for Christmas when I was 8 years old, but I got a Lego Set. But I was able to build a horse-like structure out of that Lego Set, so praise the Lord!!!!!!!!!!

a hokey religion and an ancient weapon is no substitute for a good blaster - Han Solo

theone~ AMEN!

What ever happened to "live and let Live"?
Wish the best for your fellow man...and help others in their time of need...hoping you'll not be in such need...but living your life that you might?
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Try it....it just might make this world a better place.

If Bishop Morlino was a true shepherd of the flock and a "good steward" of the Diocese of Madison, perhaps he could have brought a real message of hope to those attending last evening's Mass in the form of a $check$. If you are Catholic, you know that he will expect his Diocesan Service Appeal dollars to still come in the door after the holidays from all his parishes to support the "ministries" of the Diocese of Madison. Bishop's prayers should fool no one...he lives a rather "royal" lifestyle. I believe he is out of touch with the lives of every day families and what it takes to put food on the table and pay the bills. Everything he has is provided for him. Wake up Catholics! It is time the Diocese consider what they can do for those Catholics and even non Catholics facing unemployment. Cloth the naked, feed the poor.... But, I've heard the diocese is 'over their budget.' So, apparently there are no extra dollars out there in Bishop's pocket; he has spent it already! How many trips has he had this year alone? Trips to Australia for World Youth Day with his 20+ seminarians and entourage of diocesan staff. That does cost quite a bit! Trips to Rome several times this year; trips everywhere! Life on that diocesan hill in Madison is still fairly posh and this Bishop is clueless. In difficult times like the country and Janesville are facing now, it simply takes green dollars to pay the bills and keep the heat on. And it takes getting hired and having a job. There are no jobs out there, Bishop! This Catholic has been there,and it's tough. Bishop Morlino needs to get real and quit fooling the flock! This Bishop should be held fiscally responsible for the stewardship of a diocese. He is not. In the secular world...CEO's go to jail for misuse of company funds. Read the Catholic Herald and watch his travels! So Catholics, hold your DSA dollars, put food on your tables and pray to the God above. Morlino won't help you!

kleej: you hit it on the head!! thank you... and best wishes for your family (along with everyone else in here--disgruntaled or otherwise) a Merry X'mas(Happy Hanukkah, Happy Kwanzaa or otherwise)... let everyone enjoy the holidays for what they make of them...

VIRGINIA, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except [what] they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.
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Yes, VIRGINIA, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus. It would be as dreary as if there were no VIRGINIAS. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

The basis for the Christian-era Santa Claus is Bishop Nicholas of Smyrna (Izmir), in what is now Turkey. Nicholas lived in the 4th century A.D. He was very rich, generous, and loving toward children. Often he gave joy to poor children by throwing gifts in through their windows.

armyof3-- no sarcasm here. First off, I have the highest praise for our brave men and women who serve in the armed forces who put it on the line to defend our freedoms. I also hold our countries history very sacred. Alot of men and women paid the ultimate price in many ways that our generations can't even fathom so that we can have the opportunities that we have today. Would it be "un-Christian" of me or anyone else to be an advocate of making a stand and insuring that our country's history isn't erased completely from our culture's conscience much like it's being done these days? Much like our brave men and women in history, I too would be willing to put my life on the line to make sure that doesn't happen. I've stated in the past, our corporate driven media has done a great job of spewing the untruth to our generations of people leaving this country in the state it's in right now. When our history is gone, we as a country will be doomed. Over my "christian dead body" will that be allowed to happen!
This country is getting a much needed wake up call right now. Question is, have we enough history left in the public conscience to learn from the past so we can still have tomorrow?? I pray we do! Blessings to you and your wife.

element~ you just made my case with your sarcasm. But, that's okay. My God calls on me to hold back with the foolish pride and just live and let live. But, then you make a post that just hit the nail right on the head with common sense when you say "it's wrong to just pray and not take steps to go get it!" For the most part, I'd agree with that. We are all put on this earth to serve a purpose as well as serve others. In order to do that, we have to work at becoming a better person ourselves. Nothing good in life comes without paying the price of personal growth. As far as it being wrong to pray, I'll respectfully disagree with you. There's never a bad time for that. For what it's worth, you've shown some great intellect with this topic. (I'll give you a "mulligan" on the Santa Claus thing!!) May you be blessed always.

call1: very well said!!

Rockstars said: "Either you misread it or you have no sense of humor."

Unfortunately RC, armyof3 & a few others posting here (like myself) have seen & been through things, we'd like to forget. Whether it be a death in front of our eyes at our hands or at the hands of someone else.. maybe no ones hands.. they died choking on something while eating, or someone abusing someone else, any or all of these situations bring into question when its happening, "where is God, & why doesn't he stop this." For me.. It was the death of two little boys & a little girl. When it happened my faith wasn't very strong, so it didn't take long after that i decided, either.. "there is no God", or If there is a God, "he doesn't care."

For some, after these events... they may never regain a relationship with God..My event happened in 1975..One day in July 1986, during the birth of my first son, was my first time talking to God again. Who knows what, or if anyone else here will have their eye opening experience... but until then they'll stay cynical about life.. I know i'll be praying for them.. *wink*

rockstars: were you being sarcastic or serious when it came down to not being thankful that anyone that served during Vietnam up to and including know?? to answer your inquiry, I no longer serve, but my wife does... if she or anyone else thoughout our nation's history (Vietnam or otherwise) stopped defending our freedom because we've chosen to do so, how much different would we be from Iraq or Afghanistan?? where would we, the American people be?? and due to the economy, I was unable to donate to CA's Prop 8 like I had wanted to... just because I served in the armed forces and my wife is currently doing so doesn't mean that we are able to afford to make donations... much like many other Americans, we work hard at even trying to make ends meat... we are struggling much like many others are, but like others, we make due... it is because of our hard work that we have made it through the hard times...

nc: your welcome

rockstars: I did misread it... I apologize... sometimes, when a discusssion board becomes this heated, one has the tendancy to misread into what another one states...

Oh, and nowhere did I belittle your service to our country. Just like you CHOSE to serve. Are you continuing to fight for my rights? What are your thoughts on California's Prop 8? Did you donate to it? And if you don't know what that is, please don't say that you have and continue to fight for my rights. Unless a gestapo-like force comes into play, I really don't think that I have many people including and after Vietnam to thank for my rights.

armyof3, did you completely miss the sarcasm in my post? I was basically agreeing with your stance but somehow you perceive that as me pushing my views? I was adding a little bit of humor to my post. Either you misread it or you have no sense of humor. Geesh. Some of you posters here get so worked up sometimes.

army: Thank you.

elemental: Well put...

justsaynotomath: well said...
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rockstars: I said it earlier in here, and I'll say it again... everyone is entitled to have their own views and beliefs... if you chose to be religious, so be it... if I chose not to be religious, so be it... that doesn't mean for you or anyone else to push religion or its beliefs on anyone that isn't willing, much like I'm not trying to push my veiws on one that has his/her beliefs set in their minds... if you or anyone else chose to belittle those that chose to have an opinion that differs from yours, so be it... I, along with many others, have and still do put our lives on the line and fought for your right to do so...

"In God We Trust"
It should read "In god Some Trust"

Seriously...I'm not talking about what guides people. I never was. It's good that people have something to have faith in. Without faith there is no hope and a man with no hope has nothing to lose, and that's a very scary prospect.
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All I'm saying is that it's wrong to pray for a thing but not take steps on your own to get it. God helps those who helps themselves, right?

Darius - so does Santa Claus.

It bugs you when that's all people rely on???
That's the whole point here. God calls on people to be better people! There's no magic involved like so many misguided people have imbedded in their heads. Christian based principles are very noble as are many other religions principles. Principles are necessary to guide people through life. Just as laws are put in place. Laws are put in place to uphold order. God calls people to hold themselves accountable! It's called having character. Don't lie, don't steal, don't cheat, don't kill etc. ...here's the point: since these things happen in society every second of the day, it would indicate that there are integrity issues prevelent in society. I'm glad I have God in my life and that his principles gave me the proper guidance in my life. I'd rather not have to rely on man made laws to hold me accountable. I'd rather do that myself.

element, the people who make a mockery out of it are the people that matthew516 is talking about. He is correct. It's not just about religion either. Everyone is different and is entitled to their own beliefs. Anyone that chooses to mock others is just that...a coward.

Relying on my own abilities and fortitude instead of hoping that some magical force will bestow good fortune on me makes me a coward?
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Then just call me yellow.
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Again, as stated before, if praying and going to church and whatever you want to do brings you peace, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But it just bugs me when that's ALL people rely on.

"Don't ask me to explain to you how one could start again
or hardened hearts could soften like a child

Don't ask me how to reason out the mysteries of life
or how to face it's problems with a smile
Don't ask me if He's good or bad I only know the guilt I had is gone
and I can't tell you any more

and don't ask me how to prove to you why I know God is there or how I know that He would care for you
I don't pretend to be so wise, I only know He touched my eyes and nothing else will ever be the same.

and nothing else will ever be the same"

Some of the lrics from a song I like called Go Ask

Let the cowards mock. It's amazing how the anti-Christians all put their two cents in without anything to back it up. I understand how pride gets in the way and people convince themselves that they are so above religion in general. These same people claim to know what they know without experiencing what many Christians experience. Because these people who mock lack the courage to "see for themselves", they try to justify themselves by calling people "biblethumpers" or "cultists" and claim that every Christian on earth is trying to force feed them our religion. To each his own, live and let live. I choose to not mock the athiests because I don't let foolish pride get in my way. I will say, if you could only see what I see..... I like my chances with God.

Christianity: The belief that some cosmic Jewish zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him that you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree.
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Makes perfect sense.

Oh, armyof3, c'mon! Everyone loves to read a good book! The bible has soooo many cool stories! Did you read that one about Eden? A riot, I tell you!
*****
Please people, have a sense of humor

LOL
*****

elemental: LOL I don't envy you that job, hee hee -
You know I really needed the chuckle. My husband just called to give me bad news. His work is closing the doors in 6 months. So I am going to be leaning on my faith even more now. -
I know what you are saying and you can't just pray and expect material things to drop in to your life, heck if that worked we would all have millions! I know it takes hard work to get things but I alos know from personal experience that my faith has seen me through some rough times as I am sure it will help me with this one as well. I am upset and worried but I know that compared to many I still have alot of blessings to be thankful for. The hard part is not forgetting that when things don't always go your way....

ncpanfan - sure, you can come to me when good things come. Although I'm not that convenient to locate now that I've secured a position in Hell selling fans on the black market.
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I'm not saying good things CAN'T come when people pray, what I'm saying is that good things don't just happen magically BECAUSE you prayed. Worship The Great Purple Hippo for all I care if it makes you a better and happier person. But I fear too many people rely on some ethereal external force alone. God's not just going to dump a job/home/(insert desire here) into your outstretched arms...you gotta DO something to make those things happen.

Many people approach God through prayer with a specific goal in mind. That reminds me of a song titled “Oh Lord won’t you buy me a Mercedes Benz”. When the car doesn’t materialize, the person may begin to doubt the existence of God. They don’t seem to realize that prayer is not a request line where the avaricious desires of the chosen are satisfied, but a communication device with the Most High where humble requests such as “give us this day our daily bread” and “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us” are favorably received.
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Others approach prayer as a test, to see if God can respond. They offer deals such as if You will do this then I’ll do that, or they cynically challenge God to prove he exists with some request and when it isn’t answered as they expect an assumption is then made that there is no God since he failed the challenge. That assumes that God has human characteristics such as human pride that forces a response to a challenge to avoid humiliation. From then on they mock God while denying his existence, oblivious to the fact that their actions are contradictory.
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It is usually futile to ask God to remove us from our present situation no matter how dangerous or distressing as the Lord may very well have placed us there for purposes we don’t see just as a soldier is placed strategically on a battlefield at great risk to his life and well being without the commander having consulting that soldier and ordering him to stay there despite the growing danger and his pleas to retreat
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There are also consequences for foolish behavior that cannot usually be prayed away such as living beyond our means and asking for relief from the bill collector.

Tis okay... I don't think I will convert, been here 10 years and all our friends here keep trying! :)But I did give you one more fan with my son....

nc, ss... trying to convert you to... just fingers going so fast that it's a typo... :)

Army: You are correct, you don't have to be religious to care and have compassion. If only we all could get it together and be that way every day!
Oh and here is a chuckle: I notice you keep calling me ncpacfan, are you trying to convert me to be a Packer fan? LOL I am from NC originally so I am a Panther fan. Before someone shoots me my son is a packer fan.. :)

armyof3- I'm with ya!
"More importantly, being a "son and daughter of Jesus Christ" gives people an innate dignity that can never be taken away."
I'm not a christian so I have no dignity??

In God We Trust

ncpacfan, we're all human, and caring and compassion does come from the heart... you are absolutely right on that one, but that doesn't mean it's religious to be able to care or be compassionate... much like you, we look to all of the service members, past and present, and are thankful for what they've done for our country and it's families... they are always in our thoughts...
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the way I see it is if a person is religious, then so be it... if I chose not to be, so be it... no one wins, no one loses...

A college professor, an avowed Atheist, was teaching his class. He shocked several of his students when he flatly stated he was going to prove there was no God.

Addressing the ceiling he shouted: "God, if you are real, then I want you to knock me off this platform. I'll give you 15 minutes!" The lecture room fell silent. You could have heard a pin fall.

Ten minutes went by. Again he taunted God, saying, "Here I am, God. I'm still waiting." His count-down got down to the last couple of minutes when a Marine - just released from active duty and newly registered in the class - walked up to the professor, hit him full force in the face, and sent him tumbling from his lofty platform. The professor was out cold! At first, the students were shocked and babbled in confusion. The young Marine took a seat in the front row and sat silent. The class fell silent...waiting. Eventually, the professor came to, shaken he looked at the young Marine in the front row. When the professor regained his senses and could speak he asked: "What's the matter with you? Why did you do that?" "God was busy. He sent me."

Army: Just as I cannot see the air but have faith that I am breathing it, I cannot see God or prove my faith to you or anyone but if you ask me personally where my proof is, I would have to say in my heart! :)
I do not pretend to understand what you have been through and can only imagine. My husband was in the military and I have relatives who were in World War 2 and Vietnam and shudder at the things they saw and went through. I empathize with every military person and I wish with all my heart that wars never happened but I cannot control evil. Please know that even though you don't believe in my faith I believe in you and my faith and my prayers always include the military and people who have lost homes, loved ones, friends that I read about or see on the news. I may not know them but I as one human being to another care about others. If only the whole world were that way! It is hard to explain to someone how faith can make you feel better but it does, whether it is faith in a person here or my faith in God. I cannot prove it to you, if only it were that easy. I can only tell you it is in my heart... :) May you find peace for your troubled heart and answers to your questions and blessings 10 times over!!!

ncpacfan, who's belittling anyone in here... I, for one, am not... to trust that a friend, family member, co-worker will follow through with what they say they will do is one thing... yes, you are right on that, however, in a theologial sense, where is the proof??

armyof3 I'm done arguing the point with you I have faith and that is all that matters. It is comforting having faith. Yes the military has to have good men & women to help keep my husband safe but the faith we have helps comfort the anxiety of my husband going over. God will also help keep him safe no matter what you think.

how would anti-christian people know that putting total faith in God won't change your life?? Have they tried it? I, personally, can attest that it does 100%! I don't take exception with anyone who chooses to not follow the word of God, but it puzzles me how those same people can make their claims that faith is a joke when they've never had it!! I was one of the mockers for a long and put alot of efforts in to disparaging Christianity. My goal was to prove what a bunch of "hogwash" it really was. The harder I tried to do just that, the more truth I found. The more truth I found, the more faith I put into it. The more faith I put into God, the better my life has become and most importantly, the better my life has become, the better person it's made me so that I can go out into my communities everyday and do something positive for people as opposed to the negativity that seems to be so acceptable today. Putting one's faith in God isn't a lipservice thing. It's an act. It's not about miracles or magic. It's about getting ourselves right from within. I'm talking about character. If we all just work on "fixing" ourselves rather than worrying about what makes everyone else tick, we can move mountains together as a society regardless of our beliefs. What ever happened to just believing in each other and encouraging one another and finding the good in each other? Can't we at least do that? Here's what you'll learn about Christian principles, it teaches people just that! I say that as humbly as I can too. Christianity doesn't have a corner on the market in regards to religion. I choose to respect all religions that profess the same moral principles. It's a very good thing and a necessary element for our society to prosper.

who said anything about you not understanding... good for your husband serving his country... but faith in God to keep him safe?? I'm a veteran myself... it's not faith in God that keeps a soldier safe, but faith in your Commanding Officers...

No one ever said that just by faith alone will we get out of this economic mess (well maybe they did but I don't happen to believe that), I always thought it was The Lord helps those who help themselves. I know I have to work hard to get things and get through tough times but my FAITH helps me in knowing I am not alone and trust me I have been through alot of bad times and some before I had faith and many after and from my personal experience it was easier getting through them with the faith than without.-
If you have a spouse, friend, or family member who tell you they are going to give you something or do something for you or make you a promise and you are trusting that they will then you are believing that they will so in essence you have faith that they will. I have faith in several people and also in one I can't see. It is my choice and I don't force others to have that faith so why belittle someone for their faith?

armyof3 I have a husband in the military getting ready to go fight for our country so don't tell me I understand. I have faith in God to keep my husband safe. So don't tell me I don't understand.

ok, so I'm cynical, but until you see or go through what I have gone through for our country, you will not understand... do you view what our troops are doing as right or wrong?? they fight for you and everyone else in here to say what all is being said... it's not God's work...

armyof3 i really feel sorry for you. I can't imagine being so cynical and having no greater meaning for life than what is right in front of you.

Thanks Tom1, keep the faith and may you have a wonderful day full of blessings!

have faith in what?? an invisible man/woman in the sky that says if you don't listen to what he/she says, you go to hell... followed by, if you believe in such deity, donate your money to them so that they can further be your saviour... have any of us actually met the person that's asking for our charitable donations in person, let alone REALLY seen said person... none of this, "he/she visited me while I was sleeping and in my dreams" crap... as far as the concept behind miracles, all that is is a person just getting lucky in life...
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hard work and perserverance is what gets you through life overall... yes, times are hard, but as to how hard they are on a person depends on how hard he/she is willing to work at getting through them... not some invisible person in the sky...

ncpanfan I totally agree with everything you said.

elemental: Can I come to you when something does come from it? :)

thekid - I wholeheartedly agree about the Viagra blog. The Gestapo...er, Gazette...can be such sticks in the mud. There was nothing offensive about what was being posted, just puns. People need to lighten up. Sheesh. Don't we all deserve a little sophomoric giggle these days??
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deltafox - agree with you 100% too. Prayer and faith might make people feel all warm and fuzzy but then don't come crying to me when nothing comes of it!

Just because someone has faith doesn't mean they are always asking for money, delta. I have faith and I ask for my family to get safely to and from their destinations,for their health, etc.. I also say thanks for my many blessings (family, friends, food to eat, roof over my head, clothing, shoes on my feet, love, etc...)So yes let my fortune rain down on me! :)

"Most times its not that your prayer is answered directly, i.e. you win the lottery"
Like I said...fortune raining from the sky...

Who is asking for a personal fortune? You people are so negative. I don't bash anyone for being atheist or agnostic yet everyone likes to bash anyone who shows a little faith in a higher being. Maybe you haven't seen the positive effects of prayer and meditation but I have. Most times its not that your prayer is answered directly, i.e. you win the lottery, but that there is someone out there thinking about and pulling for you. Of course everyone will need to rely on themselves and hard work to make it through but a little faith can help those who are on the verge of despair to make it through a crisis.

the economy will recover. its just not possible for it to be like this FOREVER. if faith helps you get thru this time thats awesome. whatever you need. but to think that faith will help us recover faster is silly. actions, yes. faith...not so much.
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on a side note...THATS LAME THE GAZETTE SHUT DOWN THAT VIAGRA BLOG. THAT WAS FUNNY STUFF. REMOVE THE INDIVIDUAL COMMENTS IF THEY GO TO FAR BUT LEAVE THE FUNNY STUFF UP...its nice to see on this site for a change;)

Deltafox thats good that you don't need faith but there are some people out there that also use their faith along with actions.

I don't need faith to know that things will get better. I work to make things get better. Personal effort and action is what pulls you out of "bad times". I feel that peoples energy could be better spent by self reflection and planning, rather than putting their time and energy (or faith) into the sky in the hope that it will rain personal fortune on them.

Absolute trust in God may not put food on your table but absolute faith in God gives you faith that things are going to get better. Trust in God helps people make it through the tough times.

Prayer is just a way for people to do nothing and still feel like they're helping.

Absolute trust in god doesn't put food on the table.

realizing it is a figure of speech, to whom am i praying if i am "hoping to hell?"

Pray Pray Pray and HOPE to He// it turn's around