think, I was typing a response to Nancy, but decided your first response said it perfectly.

Also, as a taxpayer in Edgerton, I urge my representative to resist the eventual urge to "settle" this suit out of court for an "undetermined" amount. You know that day is coming. I would much rather have my tax dollars spent FIGHTING this sort of BS, and have it cost much more, than give this family ONE RED CENT.

nhaferman.....Let it be known that I do not blame you, or your family, for what happened. This was purely a case of a mental illness, and circumstances that spiraled out of anybody's control. There is no more blame to be put upon you, your daughter, the PD, or anybody else. My outrage is with the "other" family that is choosing to make this a public lynching of law enforcement. Unfortunately, along with the technological times, comes this sort of blogging and interaction. I'm certain the pain that it brings is beyond comprehension. My prayers go out to you, and wish the "other" family would stop this nonsense, and redirect their anger in a much more appropriate way, and greedless way. I, as a taxpayer, DO NOT want to be footing the bill for their silliness.

Gary....you are correct, as usual. Q & A thanks, your comment made me laugh and I know what you mean.

I'm glad to see that many of the recent comments are finally going down the right path, and turning the blame away from EPD and Chief Klubertanz, and all of law enforcement for that matter. Keep this "wave" of sanity and reality going. It's reassuring to know that the majority "get it", and the minority is wallowing in greed, guilt, and wrongfully placed blame.

RonBurgandy, your comment was well put. I would guess the Gazette took it down because of the literal vs. figurative use of the "s-word". Not that "s-word" the other "s-word". :]

"If Ron Burgundy says it... it's the truth!"

Thank You Gazette! Not sure why that one was removed. WHATEVER!

I doubt that anyone is naive enough to think the money will bring the deceased back. The law allows them to file suit and a judge will decide on the merits of the case. It is not anyone's place to demonize these people for exercising their legal rights.

Pathetic...Sue, Sue, Sue...Another new low. I suppose a few million will help with christmas presents and bills this year. Millions of dollars will not bring them back. Yes, I agree it is horrible this tragedy occurred. Seeking millions,sadly, seems to take advantage of their deaths and paints a picture that specific people are only looking for a quick buck. Sad. Police can only do so much and are not Psychiatrists. EPD did the right thing and all they could do.

Qand- thanks for response, because I really do not know the legalities behind these procedures..I also agree that when a person snaps and becomes unstable-anything could be used as a weapon..However, it is a bit unsettling that the gun had been removed then somehow received back.. Such a sad ending, yet I believe firmly that a lawsuit is a waste.

Well said.

mickie, you have raised valid questions. Scroll down and read my previous post where I outline not only the reason the gun was not taken, but why it is ridiculous to think that it should have been taken after the fact. The gun was an easy means, but had it not been there it would have been any number of other ways to do it. He never connected the gun to the threats. Many people intend to kill themselves every year. Many of them own guns, but decide to use some other way out. If the officers had taken the gun, and all of this still happened using a knife and rope instead would you say the police were at fault for taking the gun instead of the knife and rope? I bet there was a knife and some form of rope, bed sheet, or cord there. It is pathetic to think the police are to take all of the possible means from the scene. He has the right to be in the home. He has the right, however wrong it may seem, and within reason, to argue with his wife. He has the right to own a gun, and with that he has the right to keep that without fear of seizure as long as he does not threaten someone with it. He may have threatened her, but not with the gun. The police did their job well. They considered the facts and decided the best means of solving this was removal of the subject. If there was physical evidence showing there was an actual threat, then he would have been arrested as a sound individual upon release from his supposed 9 min in crisis. Seeing how he was not found to be mentally unstable, and he was not arrested, people that have not read the evidential facts found in the report must assume there was no physical evidence stating he threatened her. The answer to the last question you asked is NO as I explained in my previous post.

nhaferman, if my brother or sister turned up at my house at night needing a place to stay I know there is a problem. I think unless a persons sibling is always running from the law, I would guess nearly 100% of people would be safe assuming it is a relationship problem. Although it was nice, the janitor should not be giving rides. That is another topic though. Why did she let him leave? Did he steal her her car? If so, why didn't she report it? If not, did she give him a ride or let him take it? Adult brother shows up at night asking for place to stay for the night. He apparently does not say why or will not talk about it. Since it is not within her rights to keep Shaun there is this any different? Don't get me wrong, she is no more liable for all of this than crisis or the police. The only difference is the depth of the pockets and tendency to settle suits to avoid the drawn out costly battle. The sister is not at fault. The police are not at fault. Crisis is not at fault. The gun is not at fault. Shaun is at fault.

serenity, I bet you have dealt with Rock Co. a lot. Is "obsessive" the new standard for revoking a persons rights? We should lock people for being "obsessive"?

outspoken, way to put her in her place. I too, think Tom K. is one that really cares for people both in his professional life as well as outside.

Please remember there are 2 families here--one that is taking action in a monetary way and one that is simply trying to find some peace in all of this. Let's not put them together when generalizing their responses to this situation.

Why the focus on why the gun wasnt taken?
They found the gun in the basement in its case. Are you saying they should have taken the gun and the knives and scissors...anything that he could have hurt himself or Jenni with?
The irrational thinking is still there. Why not read the facts over and over and see that the only people responsible for the tragedy are now both dead. Its time to greive. Do it, or you never will get beyond.

happy- they are suing a city and county. That is public information and money that will be coming out of everyones pocket. Sorry, they made it public.

Darien and think- I rest my case about public being cruel.Thank you for proving my point !

I would like to say kudos to the Gazette for leaving this blog up. They made the decision, in the past, to remove the blogs, when other stories ran about this event. However, this is the case of the family putting themselves out there by filing the claim. While I have sympathy for what they experience, I have no sympathy for them if they choose to read these blogs. They should be ashamed, for many of the reasons already outlined here. If there was anybody in this world that could have predicted what was about to happen, it would have been THE FAMILY. I highly doubt they could have predicted it, but if they choose to be so arrogant and file this suit against others who had minimal knowledge, then they deserve every ounce of the outrage that many have expressed here. TO THE FAMILY: THINK before you file this suit, look deep inside yourselves, did you do all that YOU COULD DO? Or do you now wish to turn your guilt into a lottery payout provided by the taxpayers? GOSH, this makes me angry. I hate to have to ridicule people I truly have sympathy for, but sorry to say, YOU'VE ASKED FOR IT.

Giving a press release on this was just simply not a good idea. This should be a private matter,especially when everyone knows how cruel the public can be !

IMO...a public blog on this subject isnt right. These are very hurtful times for this family and they need to be left alone to deal with their loss how they see fit.

QandAsession, boy, did you hit the nail on the head.
Everyone, I think, is trying to be so sensitive to the feelings of the family, I know I am.
But I have been in this situation before. Thankfully, it did not end this way.
The only people I can blame is my (ex) husband, for behaving the way he did, and me, for putting up with it. I saw the warning signs, I told my family, I chose to stay. It was nobody else's fault but my own.
If something were to have happened to me? Sure, I could understand their anger, but to sue? Revenge?
The only sensible thing would be to force more stringent policies and procedures. But no, that's not what they're asking for. So, apparently they really don't care about that in the long run. That's what it looks like.
Everyone has a right to their opinion, here.

I agree with darienresident. And I agree with the person who said if the suit was really only to bring about change so that no one ever goes through this again, she'd be suing for $1.
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So much more comes out of life when we are proactive and not reactive.
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Making the EPD and RCC pay through the nose isn't going to change the laws on the books. Lobbying Mike Sheridan, Judy Robson, Paul Ryan, etc.., that will change things. The only thing this lawsuit is going to change is Brian Brophy's bank account balance.

Suing because something bad that happened to you is just a microcosm of the society we live in. Nobody wants to have to deal with feelings of sadness or failure, everyone wants to take pill, or place blame on someone else. Let me tell you this, in life, the sweet is never as sweet without the sour. You have to take the good with the bad. I think a lot of these depression symptoms stem from the fact that people don't just accept the fact that feeling like crap sometimes is just a way of life. Nothing is wrong, your just going through the cycle of life. Feel bad, and bring yourself out of it. Cry if you have to. It wasn't always this bad, and it won't always be bad.

2.9 MILLION, where do they get these numbers from. If she really didn't care about the money, and it was all about retribution, she would sue for $1.

rlms I think you and others that want CCAP gone have something to hide EH . yup sure do

It is painful to see the affects of hurtful blogs on the families as it affects their daily lives. True they don't have to read, but how many of us wouldn't try to find answers in any way possible including blogs. Just want everyone to know that Shaun's sister is making a difference in children's lives everyday. Helping support them to be positive, loving people in our communities. She is truly a gift to our youth and should be commended for her ability to create rapport with children in such an important way. Please, rather than blaming her in all of this (because she did what she could with the knowledge she had, and truly loved her brother and his wife) please encourage her to go on with using her gifts of making a difference in lives each and every day. She is truly a blessing in the lives of many.

I have had my share of dealings with RCC and they are so unprofessional. They are uneducated and unable to evaluate a crisis. They use reference books to determine criteria for a crisis. Anyone can answer a phone and claim to be educated in "crisis" It is obvious that these people could not and did not make the right call with Shaun. 9 minutes and he was there twice? Released to the sister? A gun involved? The hundreds of text messages and phone calls to Jenni didn't seem obsessive? From experience, RCC failed with our situation and failed miserably with this one. Shaun was released to his sister, she was to be the responsible party for him for 24 hours....Is she named in the suit also?? I hope they WIN WIN WIN!!!!RCC should never be allowed to use such stupidity again... It is not only the RCC that has no sense... A friend of mine was beaten by her husband, both eyes black and blue and her husband was arrested and taken to jail. The next day my friend asked the court, IN PERSON, for a Restraing Order and was DENIED because her husband was arrested and should be too afraid to "show up at her house" SHe cried and argued with the lady at the judges office. The judge never saw her, just denied the Restraing Order. Rock County is just plain PATHETIC......prayers to the families and good luck!! I say sue them soooo bad that this never happens again....

SSTARK-
You speak about Chief Klubertanz, but let me say this as I was in the area on this day.
Was it not Chief Klubertanz that met your aunt as she pulled up to the house?

Was it not Chief Klubertanz that talked to your aunt in the street?

Was it not Chief Klubertanz that took your aunts arm and walked her to the side of the street?

Was it not Chief Klubertanz that assisted your aunt to sit on the curb?

Was it not Chief Klubertanz that knelt by her as he spoke to her?

Was it not Chief Klubertanz that helped your aunt to her feet and escorted her to the car( it was a white grand am style with an Asian or Hispanic driver), spoke to her before the door closed and then went to the drivers side and spoke to the driver before your aunt was driven away?

This is what I saw that day. This is the Chief Klubertanz that I know. And since this is the only Chief Klubertanz in Edgerton, I can assure you that YOU have never spoken to him. Otherwise you would not have those opinions.

I'm not trying to be rude or disrespectful in anyway but if the money means nothing to the family then why don't they donate it to the Domestic Violence charities? Granted if they win the lawsuit. Or with that amount of money they could set something up in Edgerton to help victims of Domestic Violence. I feel terrible for both families. I wish both of them could have gotten the help they were screaming for. But I don't think that suing these people is going to help them with their grieving process. Yes it may make a statement to the county and whoever else that something needs to change. But I think when this even happened they knew something needed to change.

Although I believe profoundly that sueing is ridiculous, I only have one question- Why was the gun not confiscated after this man had been threatening to kill himself? Were there text mssgs. or recorded phone mssgs with this? Even setting that aside, I want to know after all the recent problems they had been having with police called etc..Why was this gun not secured? Is it within the police rights to remove a weapon as such with all this going on?

Again...this lawsuit is going to solve what? All of these shoulda, coulda and woulda's are amazing. In prior articles, Jenni was painted as being a married dater. Maybe if that wasn't happening, the EPD and RCC would be being sued because Shaun wouldn't have been crying out for help and the outcome would possibly have been different. And, if it wasn't happening at all, then shame on the Janesville Gazette for printing that in their articles. I agree with whoever wrote that it sounds like Tina Pond, her mother, was the most in the loop in this tragic situation. Is she listed as a co-defendant in her own lawsuit?
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In the end, this is all conjecture. Nothing will bring Jenni or Shaun back. Nothing will answer all of the questions that those closest to the situation are left dealing with in the aftermath.
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Don't give me this propoganda that the lawsuit is to help heal wounds and provide closure. Bologna. YOU give yourself closure. $2.8 million does not give you closure. Period.

I really don't think any monetary amount will bring these families the peace they're looking for. I do hope they find it, though.

The City and County will settle.

in all honesty sstark....
if it were my daughter calling me telling me she was scared, or i was getting odd text messages from my son in law....i wouldnt be hanging out in the bar calling the police. I would have gotten my butt to her side and took her under my wing and protected her myself.
sorry....that is my opinion of it all. There were ALOT of warning signs that things werent right. Mom knew it, she called the police. Why wasnt she there for her daughter helping her? I wouldnt have waited for the police, i would have taken care of this situation myself. People (the police) that actually got off thier butts and went to the home shouldnt be called the lazy ones.

I have known Shaun's family for 50 years - you could never find a mother more involved in her childrens lifes than Shaun's - or a family that is more involved in each others lifes - a loving - caring - helpful family - willing to do anything for anyone - you can be involved in your childrens lifes and still they can keep things from you - kids no matter what their ages can hide things from you and make you think that everything is ok - think back into your own lives and think if there was anything you didn't want anyone to know and you acted to everyone else that everything was fine - we have all done that! - get a grip people! - quit blaming and do what this family is trying to do - help get better laws - mental health counseling laws - more awareness of it all and try to find a solution instead of pointing fingers - I have no idea how they are feeling but everyday pray and try to figure out how to help no matter what! They need to heal and all these articles keep everything raw. LET THEM HEAL!!!!!

Rlm, it is called a hail mary. They certainly will not be settling on the merits. I would feel better as a citizen to see them lose all $2.9 mil to a jury than pay one cent in a settlement. If they can sway a jury they earned the money. Maybe we should encourage our elected officials to enact tort reform forcing the plaintiffs of a suit like this to fund the council of the defense as they do in other states to weed out the frivolous suits seeking easy settlements. Of course, this is just my opinion. I am sure my opinion will not apply to "the best interest of his client".

QandAsession, you hit it on the head. I totally agree with you.

The city will settle.

Good luck with this case, you'll need it. I think everyone is on your side with respect to feeling this is a terrible event. We all feel for your loss. We would all hate to be in your shoes. However I think you are facing a wall of opposition when it comes to the suit. You'll be lucky if you get a settlement from Edgerton for the police, the Chief, and the 3 Officers. Very lucky, and that is only if they settle to avoid court costs. I bet that is what the lawyers are counting on though. As for crisis, you will have a little better chance if it makes it to trial. That is not because it is a strong case of neglect or failure of color of duty, rather a trial of peers that do not know the minute facts of the law that applies to intake. Changing the law has huge monetary implications across the State. This has nothing to do with Rock County other than they must follow the law. They did so. If Shaun sat down and said "I am fine. I do not intend to harm myself or anyone else. I want to be charged or released." they would have to charge or release. Seeing there is no physical abuse, and they have the right to yell at each other inside their home, so there is no reason to hold him. They are not required by law to do a complete psych exam any more than they are required or allowed to swab for DNA. Silly as it sounds, it is the law. They did their job. If you want the law changed, lobby your elected officials.

Should the next car accident victim in or around Edgerton have the right to sue your family for wasting the resources' of the City and County, causing the bodies of government to divert additional funds for additional officers and training to cover frivolous lawsuits? How about for the next "Jenny" that wants to call the Edgerton Police for help, but because of the public undermining of the department, decides it will be of no use. Should the outcome be directly correlated to this very public bashing of the very people that risked their lives to help your loved ones? Tell me how money in your family and your lawyers pocket will "help" anyone at all. The only person that can gain from this without feeling any pain in the pocket or in the heart is the lawyer. I am sure he will do his best to convince you otherwise though.

She had at least an hour to leave.
20 min to Janesville
20 min to Milton
using what you said, 9 min to do an eval.
15 min for him to get to Edgerton from his sisters in Milton. Wait, who took him home after he was dropped off at his sisters? Are they named in the suit?

I'll repeat again the police can not tell anything to the sister. Among other reasons, at minimum HIPPA would apply. I think it is safe to say the officer could have taken him home. They instead were went above and beyond in taking him to another house in another city. Without blaming a person that can not physically, or legally keep a person at their house any more than the police or crisis worker can, if a cop showed up at my steps at night, as you stated, I would think there is a reason they are dropping him off. It is not the Sisters fault, nor would she know. The point is the officers are not allowed to disclose the problem since it was dealt with as a mental health matter. If there were grounds to arrest, they would have done so. Shaun knew what he was doing when he refused help, knew what he was doing when he found a way to get from his sisters house where the police left him and managed to get back to the house. Shaun knew he was taken away for a reason. He also knew he would re-enter a hostile environment. The fault is solely on Shaun.

We could come up with many ways any number of individuals actions could have or should have avoided this. In doing so you must examine all involved not just the police and crisis. Not only do most people on here not agree with you, we have to tip-toe around a touchy subject. The police and crisis did a good job. If you are thinking this suit will force them to admit they were wrong, you better have a team of high power lawyers. You have an uphill battle. If your goal is to bring attention to a problem, you did it. The wrong way, but you have done it. The officers need to handle the call based on the facts. They made decisions based on the evidence, the totality of the circumstances, the applicable laws and civil rights. The courts will find their decisions were well within the range of conclusions any other reasonable officer, give the same evidence, would come to.

according to the first article when the police left she left with the gun in the car for madison. how were they suppose to know she returned? then everyone keeps saying they didnt notify them of shauns release but yet she got off the phone with her mom to talk to him then spent most of the day with him. then she calls her mom to say he is taking her car and she needs a ride to work. so to say now no one notified them of his release is bs.whether the police notified them he was there they all knew he was no longer detained

You people are ignorant and you don't know all the facts. My aunt is not looking to 'replace her daughter' with money and if you knew her at all you would not suggest that. We all want justice for Jenni and we want admission of wrong-doing by both the police department and the crisis center. They dropped the ball SO many times in this whole situation. There are a few reasons Shaun should have been detained, none of which were followed through by the lazy police department. And while it may be true that if he had been detained that he may have found her eventually...she at least would have had a chance to get out of that house, get a restraining order, file stalking charges, all of which she was going to do on Monday because she was told by police that she had time, but she didn't have a chance because apparently RCCC is so good that they can do a complete psych evaluation in 9 minutes...9 MINUTES?!? Come on people...doesn't that strike you as wrong?? Lazy?? Irresponsible?? These people have a job to do, and they failed at that job. They all need to be held accountable and policies need to change and Domestic Violence training needs to be done. Our main goal in all of this is not to get rich, we want to make sure that no other family ever has to go through something preventable like this again, and while that won't bring Jenni back it will make our family feel like something good came out of this nightmare. Think things through before you post comments...

No one said arrested. He should have been evaluated for longer then 9 minutes at RCC, Jenny should have been notified he was released, Shauns sister should have been filled in on the situation. Jenny was told she had time to get her things out. This was late at night so she would sleep and pack in the morning..... Guess its her fault that the police asked her to come back to the house after she said she didnt want to. I guess its her fault that she was not notified of his release....

I guess the facts will come out, but I'm just wondering what the family and their attorney thinks Shaun should have been arrested for prior to him killing his wife and himself. The way things were apparently presented to the reporter puts most of the blame on the Edgerton Police Dept it seems. Obviously, I don't know all the facts, but from what has been reported, Shaun may have been harassing his wife and other people, but it doesn't seem he broke any laws that would have led to him being arrested.
And to sstark, please please please don't torture yourself by reading the comments here and advise your family to do the same. Obviously everyone here feels for your family's loss, but there are many people who are going to post on here with very little tact and compassion. Your family doesn't need to read everyone's opinion....it will only serve to stir up the emotion and pain. While I don't agree with the family filing suit, you are correct in that I don't know the facts. If the county and Edgerton does settle, I truely hope that most or all of the money goes to help domestic violence causes.....

So many people have their own opinions, however they are just that...OPINIONS. The lawsuit will bring out the FACTS. As Jenny's cousin and the Niece of a grieving Aunt I know for a FACT that it isnt about the money to her. THE FACT is that she feels that Edgerton Police and RCC did NOT do their jobs to the best of their ability. We all need to be held accountable for our actions. As for the "price tag" some have been talking about, it was a HUGE MISTAKE which requires a HUGE consequence. If it were a minor lawsuit no change would come. There is no "price tag" for human lives. My aunt is a great mom always has been and always will be. Everyone is right this wont bring Jenny back but it isnt supposed to. Jenny lives with us daily in our thoughts and memories and our hearts, this is something no one can take from us, however it does not mean just move on. When something is wrong it should be changed, and sometimes yes that means that people need to be sued and held accountable. What does anyone care what MIGHT be done with any monetary compensation? I have no idea what she would do with it and dont care to know either. She is not a SUE HAPPY person. To use the answer oh RCC has limited funds and resources as it is, dose not dissolve them of their responsibilities. Change happens when people are punished for thier actions (or lack there of in this case)I will be the first to tell you how heartless and jus plain rude Edgerton Police Cheif TOM KLUBERTANZ is. He Should be fired for being so Stupid! its a fact and not an opinion as I had the unfortunate experience of having to speak with him through this ordeal.
Eventually all the heartless opinons made by heartless losers on this blog will be over ruled with the FACTS of this case. I only wish is that you never have to experience this yourself and if you do might Karma bite you in the you know what! To the rest of my family who may be reading this heartless blog, I hope the Christmas season will bring you all a little peace to your heart. Justice will prevail!! Love you all!! Sarah

blood..."The Edgerton Police not only dropped the ball several times, but more importantly, they violated their own policy and went against the common practices taught in domestic violence."
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You can't chastise a person or department without explaining yourself. How did they violate their own policy? What are the common practices taught in DV?? If you're going to rail on someone for a mistake, at least back up your reasons with facts.
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Bottom line is the EPD did its job and Rock County Crisis did the absolute minimum (I think the family should be calling for policy changes rather than cash).
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One thing to remember is that nobody can force someone to get help. He may have been "crying out" for help, as so many have stated, but unless he knows where to go for help or even recognizes he needs help, there isn't much anybody can do.

I cant believe that family is suing for money now!! Geez, last time i heard of a suicide murder, i know the only one responsible is the one that pulled the trigger. Grieve like the rest of us have to. No money will bring family back!
But to sue for millions of dollars...says alot about the family!

I meant to say anyone who has ever had contact with R.C.C. probably has a horror story. Not anyone who has ever had contact with CCAP has a horror story.. But then again...

CCAP issues are on the books for early next year,there are growing concerns and problems with CCAP.. If you need to know someone thing about someone talk with your local p.d.. NO one should need to be checking every neighbor or co worker out on CCAP.. As for the person who posted they were not notified about the sex offender in there neighborhood, take it up with your local p.d.,, instead of cruizin CCAP.. Thats a safety issue and by the law the local p.d. is required to notify everyone in the area.. That is law. ..

anyone who has ever had contact with CCAP more than likely has a horror story..

This is just a tragic story..

You have to remember that we all have the benefit of hindsight when looking at this case and forming opinions. I'm not gonna pretend that I know anything about domestic violence or mental illness, but I can only imagine how difficult it is trying to assess and determine if they should be held while still taking into account the individual's rights. From all accounts, Shaun said all the right things to avoid being held. Who knows if his intent at the time of his assessment was to kill his wife and himself? I highly doubt this was a case of "laziness" as has been suggested be other posters.

There is new legis. in the works to shut down CCAP and it will eventually be done. Just for the simple fact, it will not go away. Its always a issue. As long as people are not being denied the right to the records, there is not a problem.

It also is a issue for domestic abuse issues as addresses are listed on this site as well.

It will happen. What will all the people who troll it do with their days then?

I have no doubt this will be settled out of court long before it gets there..

There is enough questions of what went wrong, the city and county will settle.

There was less evidence of wrong doing when the county was sued by two former employees claiming Eric Runaas harassed them, yet the city settled.

Check out the county's record on lawsuits, and you find they almost always settle.

But what is it had changed things? We will never know. we have to deal with what we do know. What we do know is during one of his trips to R.C.C. they have kept him for the hold, possible it could have been longer.

The police should have notified Jenny that he had been released.

They should have taken the gun.

I think we need to remember that know one ever thinks its going to happen to them.

IT's Tragic and things, could have , should have been done better.

But we live in a world of what if's don't we?
But we have to live in reality.

The reality is Jenny is gone, dead and things need to be done to make sure it does not happen again. That things are changed.

IF asked if R.C.C. and the police did everything they could.

The answer would be no. NO because the signs were there and ignored.

Changes and training have to be made more of a
priority.

If the sad story went the way curtaincall would have liked it to go, the probability of the same outcome is just as likely. Say he was locked up a bit longer, the gun was taken away, he was arrested, she went to her moms, he stayed at his sister or brothers it is no guaranty of a happy ending. The same event could have happened at a later time, maybe with more victims. Ever thought of that? What if he did it at a Christmas party or Thanksgiving? Who is to say that if they took the gun he would not have strangled her, drowned her, burned her, stabbed her, or beat her to death? The gun was not associated with the threat against her or himself. Why single out the gun? What about his hands; fists; the water in the home; all of the knives and I suppose the forks while you are at it, glass, anything porcelain like light bases, toilets, sinks, dishes, and hard plastic that could be broken and used to cut; the wire, rope, anything with a cord, and anything with string including those fishing poles; any medications; all chemicals; all cars if they own a garden hose; either all blankets and bed sheets or you must remove all things they can be attached to; all matches, accelerants, and anything flammable since he could get a flame from the water heater or furnace if desperate. Did we cover everything a police officer should take under your idealistic standards you hold them to? Now, knowing the officers must essentially remove nearly everything off the property in all domestic abuse scenarios, are you as a taxpayer willing to pay the added taxes to cover the cost of an official police u-hall truck?

If it is easier to just violate Shaun's rights and lock him up indefinitely, and without cause would that solve your issues? It would not solve ours either. There would be suits from the family if not the ACLU for that too. Can we learn and move on. We all feel for the families. No one would want this to happen to anyone let alone ourselves. Why not use the media time to educate or memorialize instead? Thank the officers for doing their best. Ever think how they may be with you in sadness and pain. They are not robots.

Curtaincall, you are wrong on so many levels. First, there has been legislation for a long time trying to get rid of CCAP. It continues to fail. There are many other counties and states with CCAP like systems in one form or another. While they may be limited, search specific areas, or charge a fee they are a form of open information like CCAP. Your address is not private. Your age, license plate, vin #, or court case is all open record. What is there to hide from?

Still on curtaincall, I disagree with your statement that police will inform neighbors of a sex offender. This is not true in all cases, nor is it true in most cases. I had a class 2 next door to me, across the street from and in the the back yard of many children. Because his crime was 2nd degree sexual assault and false imprisonment of an adult female he had dated it makes no sense to get the neighbors worked up. Many will disagree with this policy, but that is another topic.

Yep, still on curtaincall's radical comments. Had the police taken the gun from the home there would have been a much larger suit filed on behalf of the family by the ACLU or NRA. I am not a gun rights soldier, but I have to say I side with the Constitution of the United States here. If I remember way back to my school years I remember something about the right to keep and bear arms. It was so important that it was the second amendment they thought of writing. On top of that the police are bound by such things as the 4th Amendment that outlines such things as search and SEIZURE.

Well since none of us have seen the actual legal documents , as it is NOT filed as of yet, notice has just been given. WE don't know that they won't ask for procedural changes as part of their lawsuit.. Even if they don't changes more than likely will be made because of this tragedy. IF it just once causes either someone at R.C.C. or a police officer to just once question if they are doing everything they can, it will be worth it.

People get to complacent. When you see things over and over again, it can be hard to distinguish true pain from someone who maybe is just having a bad day.

As far as the police not being able to do it all if they dont' know everything?? This was not brain surgery,, unstable people.. Take away their weapons.

The Police can only be effective when given the correct information and all the information. This is typical in DV where the victim holds back info, lies, etc, due to be afraid, or whatever. The shooter is the one that is to blame. The police did their jop. I have only read the stories in the newspapers and don't have all of the information they had available. Having said that, it seems like the lawsuit will be dismissed at some point if it even goes to one. I have read all the comments so finding a jury that would find the City and the County Liable looks like an uphill battle. I feel bad for BOTH families, however grown adults make decisions, bad and good ones. The are called choices and consequences!

Tatersmom.

I tend to think I do know a little something about mental illness and suicide since my aunt commited suicide. I also think I may know something about a situation like this since when I was 17 I was held at gunpoint by own boyfriend who was also threatning to kill himself. Jenny's parents cannot walk into her home and take over Shawn's gun, they do not have that right. Many people in situations like this do not involve their family, wether it be because they are embaressed or maybe they dont think its that out of hand. No one knows exactly how much Jenny or Shawns family knew. Apparently his sister knew nothing that was going on. What do you think they should have done? What could they have done? The police are the only ones with the legal right to take some sort of action. My entire family would be living a very sad life if we all blamed ourselves for my aunts suicide. We all knew she had her problems but she choose to hide them and she did not want to open up. That is how most people with a TRUE mental illness are. How were we to know she would take it that far and even if we did what could we really have done? Call the cops is the only thing that comes into my mind!!! But apparently thats not the right answer to you! Again, I'd like to know what it is exactly you would have done if this were your daughter.

No "humbug" here curtaincall-Actually looking forward to the holiday season:) Heartless to suggest that money can replace their daughter... Correct me if I'm wrong, but these people are suing for $2.9 million. I'm not just suggesting it--they're doing it! The family is not lobbying to get laws or procedures changed--no mention was made of that at all--they're simply after the cash.....No one wants to take responsibility for their own actions anymore. The one who is solely responsible for this is Shaun, but obviously his estate would not provide the payday that the family is looking for. The next in line in the "responsibility chain" is the family. They had a much more personal and involved perspective on what was going on. They should have been more proactive. I don't know if my family is more protective than most, but when one of us needs help the rest rally around him/her and make sure the situation is taken care of. These people cannot sue themselves though. So that leaves us with the state agencies--through the taxpayers they have the biggest pocketbook. Unfortunately for them that is what is important in this case........

sweet_79
Actually you are the one that needs a clue. Being honest isn't being rude or insensitive; the posts on here are honest opinions. After all,this affects all of us taxpayers; if we have to pay we might as well have a say. The cops are lazy? The family had warning signs for some time so aren't they lazy for ignoring them? Shaun had been making threats before this happened, that is how troubled people ask for help. Obviously you don't understand or have a clue about mental illness or suicide. The family who has constant contact didn't believe that Shaun would hurt Jenni so why should the police or RCC who only have the chance to question him believe that he would? Our society looks down on mental illness, what makes you think that anyone would go to RCC or anyone else and say "Yes, I have a problem"? Chances are that even if they would have/could have held him he only would have had that much more time to make a plan. By the way, yes, I know someone who has committed suicide and someone who has attempted suicide. The only blame the family can place is on themselves for not listening and ignoring his cries for help. I can't believe that a parent is in the wrong, is controlling or interfering by offering help and letting their child know that they are there to help. It's sad, it sucks, but life has to go on or you will drive yourself over the edge with the "what ifs".

very well put sweet 79, it is clear many people who posted on here are clueless, and have led such a charmed life, they don't know what it means to deal with some one who is mentally ill.

I think the fact the police did not take the gun goes to show they are not trained well enough. That should have been police training 101, don't leave weapons where someone is not mentally o.k. , Jenny was a abused woman both physically and emotionally, she was the victim.

Your sick 916WI!

Apparently people on here forget that Shawn and Jenny still had rights too. Just because you are someones parent doesnt mean you can just run into their house and rummage through their things. Or were Jenny's parents supposed to take her hostage to protect her. The cops DO have the right to do those things and they DID NOT because they were being lazy. Again if this was YOUR daughter, neice, sister, cousin you cannot sit here and say you would not be upset just like Jenny's family is. You would want to "get back" at someone and blame someone. Its part of the greiving process! Who knows if this is really all about money or revenge or a lesson but either way I feel the family is justified in sueing, their daughter is dead and they are sad and upset. You dont know what you would do either! I do know however that is incredibly RUDE and INSENSITIVE to sit here and say that is was the familys fault. Have none of you ever known anyone who has commited suicide? Well I'm guessing if you do you dont think that its all your fault for not stepping in before they pulled the trigger. You cant control someone elses lives!

Yes the police should have taken the gun. At least offered to. When people are in distress as she was they don't think of the obvious. Everything is just swirling, and it is hard to know what is the best thing to do.

This situation was a sad deal all around. I am not sure what $2.9 million will do to fix it. I am not a big fan of lawsuits. Why not sue to change the process? What will the money fix? What about Jennifer's actions on "securing" the firearm in the truck of her car? She was instructed to get rid of it, and she put it in her trunk. I could imagine she was probably in a state of distress due to all of what was happening, so she probably wasn't thinking clearly. I couldn't figure out why the police didn't confiscate the gun. Why would they leave it to a woman in obvious fear? There are so many unaswered questions, but the number one question is what will $2.9 million fix?

916wi, you are the one who is pathetic for leaving such a comment.

So 916wi got a bit of the humbug do you? How heartless are you to suggest, money could replace their daughter. As hard as it is for some of you to believe city services do screw up. In this case R.C.C. screwed up big time. But its not the first time.. Hopefully if nothing else they change their policy's in how they handle people in crisis, not just hand them a sucker and say go home now and be a good boy.

This lawsuit is pathetic. These people are trying to cash in, in any way possible, on their daughter's life. I seriously hope if the city does settle, that the new cars and vacation home will provide just as much happiness as the 24 years they had spent with their daughter.......

As for those of you who want to blame the victim asking why she did not leave, or why her family did not get her out of there?? If Shaun was intent on killing her, as it seems he was. It would not have mattered where she went or was. He would have found her. So as to you close minded people who are unable to understand the true nature of mental illness keep your mouths shut.

There already is pending legislation to shut down CCAP based on the privacy issue. Most states do not have anything like this. Most of the things on there is none of anyone else's business. IF there is a sex offender moving into your neighborhood the local p.d.tell you that anyway. People will still be able to get info on people they will just have to put in a request. IT was never intended for people who have nothing better to do to troll all day long to see what they can find on their neighbors. As it was said, get a life.

As for this situation. How truly sad for all involved. There are some truly heartless people out there as witnessed on this blog. Is the gazette that desperate for money, they will do what ever it takes to get people to their site, even if it borders on a question of ethics?

As for the comment about CCAP ,, there will come a day when this is closed to the general public and if you want info on someone you will have to go back to requesting it from your local p.d. it is public record but placing it in the form that it is violates a person's right to privacy. You mentioned T.M.you have no clue what you are looking at and a person's financial situation does not dictate what kind of job they do at work...

Shame on all you who the first thing you do when you read a article in the gazette you jump on CCAP,, like they go hand in hand.

You are nothing but a bunch of nosy bats that do that, get a life .

Does everyone remember or heard of Len Bias?? This is no different. NO one made Len Bias take drugs but he did, and he died because some one sold them to him. Some one else played a part in his death by THEIR ACTIONS. No one made Shaun do what he did either, but some one else was responsible, R.C.C. ... Warning Signs all over the place, and they sent him home because he promised to be a good boy...

To think if they had locked him up for the 72 hour hold, how things may have changed.

You must certainly and shame to you all who blamed the victim.

The law says that other people can and will be held accountable when someone dies of unnatural causes.

The Len Bias law is a perfect example of this.

Rock County Crisis is a joke.

HOWEVER,, I don't think the city of Edgerton should be held accountable in this suit. BECAUSE as much of others try to say how well they are trained in mental health, I find it hard to believe much emphasis is put on mental health training, it normally is not in smaller towns. This is from what we witnessed from our small town dept. Sad. Does not mean they did everything like they should have, just means they are clueless.

You know this is a sad situation but like everyone else I think the suit is misplaced and invalid. From this and other articles on this matter, it seems Jennifer's MOTHER was the most informed of the whole situation. Makes no sense that she didn't act at the time and now wants to punish those that acted.

Also, I'd love to hear which 'policies were violated' or not followed or how EPD or RCC didn't do their jobs right. It sounds like they followed all the rules we've imposed on them to protect our rights JMO.

I hope both families can get through the holidays with some peace and thoughts of their loved ones and begin to heal.

smsebastian...WHICH Terry Murphy on CCAP are you referring to? and what is your point?

*comments and remarks from people who do not know the facts are increadably hurtful to the families. *

Guess where the money, potentially in this lawsuit, is going to come from, my friend. Everyone who lives in the county--that's who, via taxes, so I think everyone's opinion on this is legit, thanks ever so much.

They say money can't buy happiness but I've been told it can pave the way. Shaun is ultimately the one who holds the guilt in all of this. His actions caused 2 deaths. Its sad he wasn't honest with his feelings and all of this could have been avoided. Hopefully this tragedy has opened everyone's eyes so they look out for warning signs with friends and families. I still feel for all who are affected by this, the families, the police, the crisis workers, the friends. Its a sad thing and I'm sure both of them will be missed in their families especially at this time of year.

It's all about greed. Next thing you think of is lawyers will be all over hospital patients who died suing doctors for not being there to save them. This is just silly. As difficult as it may sound, IMO... I say try to find it in your heart to put some closure on this thinking of the good times spent with Jenny & Shaun rather than the bad.

My thoughts and prayers are with all those involved. I do not believe we have a right to judge any of those involved in this tragedy.
The problem is the system!!! My hope is that out of this tragedy maybe some laws can be changed to prevent this from happining again.
Maybe when a loved one is sick or in danger the family can be notified and the police and crisis can get a larger picture of what is going on so they can make a more informed decision. The other thing is maybe we can change the law that if a loved one is possibly a danger to themselves or others loved ones can be informed so they can help keep an eye on the ones they love.

Another example of our "something for nothing" driven society. I feel for the families of these people, but it's time to move on.

This whole thing is sad but giving the family money isn't going to make everything better. In my opinion if the family wants to do something they should do something to promote Mental health and domestic abuse awareness. I'll pray for everyone involved in this as I'm sure there is a lot of second guessing going on. Hindsight is 20/20 but during an incident not all the facts are available at the time they are needed.

Ms. Ames,
I recall you including the police reports in your past articles. The claim must be open record because you were notified, so why dont you include it in the paper? how much is being asked for each of the families losses? 2.9 is an odd number, what is the breakdown?

Stevev- Very well said

SarahB- The lawyer contacted the media first because the Gazette, just like the lawyer, is sleazy. It did not even need to be in the paper, but the reporter continues to make this story bigger than it is. The attorney probably is getting the story out in Rock county to poison any potential jury if it goes to trial. Will request it be moved to an impartial jury in Dane County, where common sense does not prevail as it does in these posts.

I feel for this family. I can't imagine the heartache they have gone through and will continue to go through the rest of their lives. I agree with many comments here....some have been posted with less compassion than others, but it seems that most agree that this lawsuit is somewhat frivilous. I have found it very hard to blame the mental health workers and the police in this case. In HINDSIGHT, there clearly should have been more done. However, at the time, no one had the benefit of hindsight, including Jennifer, her family, and Shaun's family. How can we expect mental health workers to figure out if someone is a threat based on a quick assessment when not even a single family member seemed to fear for Jennifer's safety. The fact that she put the gun in the trunk of the car and then let him take it, and then she stayed in the home alone that evening makes me believe that the violent ending to this was completely unexpected from everyone's standpoint, including Shaun's wife, Jennifer's family, And Shaun's family. Some situations can not be prevented by a mental health screen or even a 72 hour hold. Who's to say after the 72 hours that Shaun wouldn't have hunted her down at work or at her parents house and did the same there? This whole situation is just sad. It goes a long way to teach ALL of us that we need to take care of ourselves and others. Get people the help they need BEFORE the police and/or the county get involved. When someone is in a bad situation, help them to get out of it. There were certainly warning signs in this case, but Jennifer's mother even said, after receiving numerous text messages from Shaun saying he was going to harm himself something to the extent of "that's just Shaun being Shaun." I really hope this family drops this suit at some point. They don't need to rehash all of the pain of what happened that night in a courtroom. Lawyers will bring up the points that I made here, and you know they won't try to say them politely as I have tried to. I hope they're not reading these posts, but I do hope they see that this isn't going to make them feel any better and drop it....

it is their job to protect and serve but they are not body guards ,

It's also the responsibility of the police department to protect and serve the residents.

All this talk about who is at fault. Shaun is!
Lets look at these points;
Shaun convinced RCC he was fine and everything would be OK. Shaun told his sister when she dropped him off that everything was fine. Shaun told his mother everything was fine and not to come over, he would meet her for lunch the next day. Jennifer told her mother that Shaun was home and everything would be fine,
Jennifer tells her mother Shaun left with her car and didnt believe she would get it back for work. Mother, who stated in other articles, she feared for her daughters safety, replies call me in the morning if you need a ride to work. Both families knew that Shaun was home with Jennifer but no one did anything.
No one, but the Police, that is tried getting Shaun help.

The banks wronged us. Let's sue them.
The car dealers pushed off emmissions standards buy buying our lawmakers and now need to use our money to run their business so they can cash fat bonus checks and bust the unions. Let's sue them.
The lawmakers are taking from us to give to the rich people that pay for their golf uh, I mean meetings. They are causing us pain. Let's sue them.
All of the realtors that pushed through unqualified homebuyers into unrealistic mortgages and the morgage companies that changed the employed as from customer service to customer service manager to get the loan through should be sued for this mess we are in. They should be sued for the lowered assessments on our homes. They should be sued for messing up a few of our retirement plans.
Heck, I am going to sue the Edgerton Police for not cutting corners. If they would have neglected to do their job maybe they would not be costing us, as taxed residents, a potential $2,900,000. Sure they do their job the right way and now it is going to raise my taxes either for the legal battle or for the settlement. Gosh, you can't win. As Chris Rock says, "ya sure can sue!" I'm moving back to Prussia!

As sad as this story is the lawsuit is just shows how much of a litigious society we live in. But as the story says "Shaun shot his wife and himself late the previous night or early that morning." Since they can't file suit against someone who is dead they go to the next in line who has big pockets and hoping the jury is more emotional than logical.

I thought when someone is put on a hold, it is mandory to keep them for 72 hours, someone just didnt do their job. and now look at this they are trying to hide mistakes.

slugs

The family of the man killed should also be entitled to a comparable amount of money if the city of Edgerton and Rock County are to blame for all of this.

whybesad- That's the point and why suing is so not right. You can't put a $ on someone. I think it is sick and not right. I think that the world is just so sue crazy that no one knows how to fix a problem themselves anymore... lets get the lawyers to do it!

How do you put a dollar amount on a person's life that was taken wrongfully?

In my opinion, (catch that RonBurgandy, my opinion!), if suing of the police and crisis intervention is justified, then so is suing.. Jenni and Shaun's parents, friends, and families for not intervening when the opportunities arose. Parents, friends, and families have more of an understanding of what is going on in the lives of people around them. I say again, this is a terrible tragedy, but suing the local law enforcement isn't going to make it better. We have to start to pay attention to the things and people around us that we love and cherish. We can minimize murder/suicides and other terrible situations by being more aware of those around us and the flags that they are putting up. Life isn't handed to us on a silver platter. We have to work to make it a good one and who better to help us make it work then the loved ones around us.

I don't understand why all you people keep saying that money wont bring them back. This family is not sueing to bring them back or teach anyone anything. they are doing this strickly to get money. Free money.I do feel terrible for both of these family's but nothing is going to change what happen. I hope that the family's get some help for them self's it is hard for a parent to lose a child it is the worst pain that a parent can ever go though.

Why would a lawyer call the press before filing a claim for $2.9 million?

RCC is responsible? The police are responsible? Sounds pretty typical to me that nobody wants to put the blame where it should be put. On Shaun and Jenni. Jenni was told to get rid of the gun. She put it in the trunk of her car and then let him take the car?? Shaun may have had problems but he pulled the trigger. The family knew there were problems, why didn't they step in? RCC and the police could not hold him without reason. If he would have been a minor that would have been a different story. Even if RCC would have held him and transferred him out, all he would have had to do is tell the doctors at Mendota what they wanted to hear, and they would have had to let him go as well. I know how the system works, I have been through all of this with one of my children. I also know that if an individual truly wants to commit suicide, it will happen it's just a matter of when. Suing the RCC and the Edgerton police won't bring them back. It was a terrible tragedy but it's time to move on.

Shaun is responsible for this,, but so is R.C.C. and there is no way around it.

I am sure this family is just looking for a little closure. If this happened in my family I would not only be sad but I would be incredibly angry at the police because they COULD have prevented this had they taken the "proper" steps. The family is justified in sueing. They are upset and the cops are partly to blame, no doubt about it. If this happened in your family could you just sit around and say "oh well, stuff happens, they could have done better". No you would be so upset that all in all you would want to get back at them for this. I know I would!!

nhaferman, for your information, something like this has happened to my family. I simply think families need to pay more attention and regardless of whether a child is grown or not need to heed warning signs and step up. So don't judge my opinions since you don't know me either.

There is always so much anger that stems from something that seems preventable...but the bottom line is, everything looks preventable after it has already happened.

No nothing will change the past and nothing will bring these two souls back to life.

What is preventable is this happening to other families. The only problem, is asking for 3 million from the cities and counties that fund the officers that are there to protect us. Taking money out of the system will not help build a better system. Only communities, people, help groups, and better resources can help prevent things such as this. I really wish people would work together to build a better system of help for each other.

This family needs to do what they need to do...I just hope that if they are awarded the money...it will go towards helping people that may be going down the same dark road as this couple.

Also referred to as a "Run-On"

etown, that's the longest sentence I've ever read!

i still dont understand while all this was going on why didnt her family contact his family , if they really were that concerned he was going to hurt himself, people also dont realize how hard it is to get a protective hold on someone, especailly in cases where their is a divorce or someone is saying they want a divorce, it s a very fine line on who to believe , or their motives, we had a relative that went through this and were told point blank if they dont say it in front of us we cant help you, you have to convince them to tell us the whole story, maybe his family had they have known could of gotten him to, as neighbor s we saw the police come and go , we saw them both come and go , no one had any clue what was going on, no one ever approached any of us and said they were concerned with her safety, their was no clue, as far as the edgerton police department goes, they are really quick to arrest someone when any thing domestic is involved, what they had to go on is a he said she said scenario, they did what they were asked to do and then turned it over to rock county , and he smoozed himself through that interview, but what i cant figure out is when he came and got the car with the gun in it , why didnt anyone do anything? they knew, no call to police she didnt leave the house, no one came and got her they didnt call his family , could it be they were hoping he would just end it for himself? when they say he was threatening suicide and now you know he has a gun this to me would of been the most important phone call,

Geez... ya know... Ron ur right! :)

Maybe we should just all keep our opinions to ourselves... shhhhh... everyone... keep quite, we would't want ANYONE to know that Americans do things to each other that are hurtful. Bad things happen. People talk, blog, message, etc.. to get things off their chests and to realize that other people feel the same way or differently. Its human nature. If the families don't want to read it, its their choice!

We live in a world where accountability for one's actions no longer exists.

Sounds awfully one-sided, concerned family. How can you blame the person that was murdered for "continuing to do what she did with no concern for Shaun"? The victim..........

As far as you mentioning the "price tag", that's awfully crude. Your comments make you seem arrogant, and if anything, maybe a little bit guilty that YOU didn't do more to try to prevent this tragedy when you blame her family for not doing more. Pot, meet kettle.

Yeah and the cool part is that we do not have to reveal our true identities when posting our opinions! Neat huh?

Unbelievable. Police and RCC is RESPONSIBLE FOR THIS? Did they give him the gun and say, shoot your wife and yourself? Where were the couple's friends and family? Did they not see or know what was going on? This is the Husbands fault, 100%, he did it, he pulled the trigger, not the police, not the RCC. He did it. This man should have seeked help, or his wife should have tried to get him help, or his family. This happened, it is over. MOVE ON

You would think.....But it would probably take someone to file a 3 million dollar lawsuit against the paper for them to disable it.

bb- well, the great thing about living in the wonderful U S of A is that we have the right to provide our opinion of any of the topics we so choose. You, as a concerned citizen, have the right to suggest removal of any of the comments that you feel are hurtful or damaging to the family.

You think the Gazette would have learned from the previous articles. This forum needs to be closed. Its comments and remarks from people who do not know the facts are increadably hurtful to the families. This time of year will be tough enough on the families and this article needs to be reported, but NOT the comment page.

cubsin09, did you miss the part of my post where I said I know from a personal stand point Rock county crisis is worthless?? Thats is how I can judge. YOU do not get taken to R.C.C. for kicks.. IF you get hauled in there its because you are exhibiting serious signs or issues.. Not because you flipped some one off... The fact he has so much contact the last few days with police and R.C.C. makes one sick.. IT was all red flags..

BUT it is R.C.C. who bares the blame for this.. They are college trained professionals who need to stop looking at saving county money and start looking at saving lives.

Well I just have to say that we were given free will and have the opportunity to make choices. Everyone in this scenerio made a choice... from the officers, to the crisis workers, even the victims made a choice. Things happen and, while it is tragic, we must move on. Sueing isn't going to bring a loved one back, it is only going to be a constant reminder of a loss. As a survivor of domestic violence and a controlling husband, I can say that while it is very difficult to get away from a controller, it CAN be done. Maybe while he was "crying out for help", she should have been not coming back. To buy new possesions is easier then coming back from the dead. Rather then suing why not EVERYONE use this as a learning experience and help those who are in this type of relationship to get out before this happens again to someone YOU might know.

Perhaps the parents can sue Superman for not showing up on time...or themselves for not instilling a survival instinct in their child or the sense to not marry a psycopath...or sue his parents for raising a psycopath. Where do you draw the line?

Mikki-I agree. His sister, mother, the police and anyone else involved had no control over what he did. He alone is responsible. People always want to blame others for their actions...and, as in this blog, others want to blame everyone but Shaun. Had he been kept for a longer period of time or arrested, it probably would not have changed the outcome-unfortunately.

Let's suppose for a minute that the city and county had done what the lawyers claim should have been done and that this couple were not dead. What are the chances that come law firm would now be representing this couple in a wrongful detention claim against the city and county for, say $2.9 million, since it is well established that a person cannot be detained against his will, or even examined by a mental health professional against his will, unless it has been established that the person is a danger to himself or others. Nowhere in the story does it say he actually became violent, nor that he actually attempted suicide.
.
I realize that the parents of this woman must be outraged, but our laws about the mentally ill are convoluted. In hindsight it would have been great if everyone had done what the lawyers say should have been done, but if those things had been done then Mr. Vordermann’s rights might well have been violated and still there would be lawyer’s statements in perfect hindsight about what should have been done written into multimillion dollar claims. The main culprit here is the state legislature for failing to clarify the law.

Wow. Other than the CAPS YELLING, your post was pretty decent, "concernedfamily".

Sueing. Oh yeah, THAT'S the answer. You gonna donate every cent so that the "so-called" untrained officers can get better training? Taxpayers should pay because one man had a mental problem and went off the deep end? I'm sorry but if my bro-in-law decided to shoot himself and his sister, I'd be blaming MYSELF for not heeding any warning signs, NOT looking for someone to get money from.

To keleric38-- I cannot agree with you more.

I think that this is horrible what this family is asking for. No amount of money will bring your daughter back or take away the pain that is just plain greed. The right way to act on this would be to help other families and other law enforcments so that this wouldn't happen again.

FIRST OF ALL WHO ARE YOU ALL TO JUDGE. HOW MANY OF YOU KNEW THESE TWO PERSONALLY AND KNEW MORE THAN WHAT THE GAZETTE TOLD YOU. I AM FRIENDS WITH THEM BOTH AND TO BE HONEST THEY ARE BOTH AT FAULT BUT THERE IS NOTHING ANYONE CAN DO TO BRING THEM BACK. NO AMOUNT OF $$ CAN BRING THEM BACK OR MAKE THE HURT GO AWAY. TO SIT HERE AND BLAME ONE OVER THE OTHER DUE TO AN OUTCOME IS OUTRAGOUS. JENNIE WAS WELL AWARE OF WHAT WAS HAPPENING AND SHE WAS CONTINUING TO DO WHAT SHE DID WITHOUT CONCERN FOR SHAUN. SHE WAS TOLD TO GET RID OF THE GUN AND SHE DIDN'T! AS FAR AS JENNIE'S MOTHER AND FRIENDS WHY DID YOU NOT STEP UP AND DO ANYTHING IF YOU KNEW ALL OF THIS WAS HAPPENING? YOU CALLED POLICE BUT SAID YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO DEAL WITH THIS. THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN NO MATTER WHERE JENNIE WAS AT. IF ANY OF YOU KNEW THEM YOU WOULD KNOW THAT WHEN IT WAS GOOD THEY WERE GOOD. PLEASE LETS NOT MAKE THIS A WORSE THING FOR FAMILIES THAN IT ALREADY IS AT THE HOLIDAYS. IMAGINE AT YOUR FAMILY CHRISTMAS WHAT YOU WOULD BE GOING THROUGH WITHOUT YOUR FAMILY MEMBER SITTING NEXT TO YOU AND MAYBE YOU CAN START TO KNOW WHAT THIS FEELS LIKE. SHAUN WAS AN AMAZING MAN AND HE NEVER MENT TO HURT ANYONE. TO SHAUNS SISTER-- YOU ARE AMAZING AND YOU DID YOUR BEST AND THAT IS ALL ANYONE CAN ASK FOR. DO NOT LISTEN TO THESE STUPID PEOPLE TRYING TO FIND BLAME. FINALLY TO JENNIE'S MOM FOR THE LAW SUIT I THINK IT IS SCARY TO KNOW THAT YOU CAN PUT A PRICE TAG ON YOUR DAUGHTERS HEAD-- 3 MILLION (THAT'S IT?) FIRST YOU ASK FOR HELP TO BURY YOUR DAUGHTER AND THAT IS NOT ENOUGH???GOOD LUCK TO YOU ALL.

Mental health professionals can only deal with what they are being told. If the person in front of me says that they have no intention of hurting themselves, I have to believe that they are telling the truth.

As far as the officers are concerned, I believe that they acted in a way that was appropriate. DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY DV calls they respond to daily? And, how few of them result in this level of tragedy? They get the MOST calls for domestic issues. More than any other type of call. And, luckily actually following through and killing your spouse and yourself is (thankfully) very rare.

I think this lawsuit is ridiculous. These people are going to live the rest of their lives wondering if there was something that they could have done to save these young peoples' lives. Ultimately, they are gone because of Shaun's selfish decisions. The police were not there when he pulled the trigger. They had no way of knowing that this domestic issue is any more volatile than the previous one.

Her family is hurt and trying to "lash out", but, come on. Money won't bring her back, and, accusing people that acted with the best of intentions is sinful. You do know, none of these people are in these positions because of the money or the prestige. They work in these jobs to help others...

Sue- happy society that thinks it is all about money!

The Chief of Police in Edgerton is immune also because he has well trained officers that did good work. The County could be given a run for their money, but while we may look at the time the subject was held as being too short it will be found to be sufficient in this case. The County did their job, and they had no right to tell the subjects sister anything about his mental state. They are barred from doing so. Should the sister be added for not keeping him at her house? Should she be added to the suit for not asking him why he was left at her home? No. That is just as desperate as questioning the job done by the officers. The fault falls on the shoulders of the young man. Sure there are many possible reasons for his decisions, but ultimately he chose to take the unfortunate action he took.

This is a sad case, but to file suit is just an extension of the family's frustration. RonBurgandy made very good points. I would like to say, unless there is a settlement purely as a means of saving time and legal expenses, that this case will go to trial with a finding that things were done correctly. Officer Vierck did not write a report because it was a welfare check. There would be no need for a report. 911 has the check logged, and the officer would place notes in the squad computer. Officers Chilson and Williams are trained in handling domestic violence. All officers are trained in DV in the police academy, state updates, and ongoing educational classes. They handled this well from the info I have read as well as info I have gained outside of the news media. Could they spend all day, every day in DV classes? They could, but then who would pay for it? When would they have time for patrol? When would they fit in the mandatory firearms, EVOC, CPR/AED refreshers, INTOX, or any other training? These officers are well trained, and they did their job well. Not every situation will turn out to everyones' advantage. While it is unfortunate this young girl, and for that matter this young troubled man had to die. It is not the fault of the gun. It is not the fault of the officers. The parents are not at fault. This man was an adult. He knowingly purchased a gun for "target practice" even though he did not been a hunter, is not a sniper, was not in the military, and never shot targets. Should they blame the government for giving him the right to buy the gun? Should they blame the store that sold it to him? No! He had every right to own it. He also had every right to keep it. There is no correlation in the eyes of the law between a person that owns a gun and the fact he or she may harass, argue, fight, or even threaten someone. That is, unless the subject makes that correlation themselves through verbal or physical means. Shaun did not threaten her with the gun, and therefore there was no reason, or legal right for the officers to confiscate the weapon. While we can look back and wonder, we can not expect the officers to violate his right to own a gun. If you still think the officers should have taken the gun, then do you also think he should take the gas can and matches, the kitchen knives, the phone cord, shut off the water and so on? They did the right thing in removing the subject. They did their job well.

Look at the picture of this beautiful girl, what an unnecessary tragedy! There are a lot of unfortunate lessons to be learned from this event and a lot of blame to go around. The Edgerton Police not only dropped the ball several times, but more importantly, they violated their own policy and went against the common practices taught in domestic violence. The crisis center, WOW, what a lapse of common sense and training! It's easy to evaluate in hindsight and be critical of their split second decisions, but that's exactly the point, they are educated, trained and expected to make correct split second decisions, life and death decisions!

One clear message is to parents- there are a lot of marriages, especially young adults, that should never have taken place and shortly after the wedding the reality sets in for parents, "this guy is a troubled soul and diplays dangerous behavior toward my daughter." Even though your children are "on their own now" it's not a time to back away and let them workout their own problems. When your daughter gets over 100 text messages and phone calls in a matter of days from her boyfriend/partner it's time to pay close attention and find helpful advice.

I sent the articles about these two young adults to my friend in Florida who's daughter has a boyfriend like Shaun. IT IS NOT being over protective to pay close attention when you see red flags popping up.

The problem with the lawsuit is everyone involved will now circle the wagons and defend their individual actions; that's not going to achieve immediate, realistic corrections to the system.

I understand that her family is in pain right now but, shouldnt they really hold shaun accountable for this? Last time i checked the coroners report said nothing about any edgerton officer being responsible for their deaths. Shaun shot Jennifer, then himself. That is where the blame should be placed. Ofc. Vierck handled the first call as he should have, there was NO probable cause to make an arrest, and no information at the time to hold shaun on a 51.15. As such he was not required or obligated to write a report. The second incident, Ofc. Williams did detain Shaun on a 51.15 hold. He did all he could in that situation. He was not responsible for the acts of crisis intervention after that. Regarding, "Despite probable cause of the commission of numerous crimes, Shaun was never arrested," the claim states, remember, they were married and living together. All the information that has been released, I have yet to see any incident where Shaun was disorderly or had assaulted Jennifer. Short of that, there was no probable cause to arrest him. Most of the information notice is all after the fact information that the officers were not aware of during these incidents. While the police do protect, they cannot and should not be expected to know the thoughts of every person they have contact with. They are not responsible for the actions of someone who was intent on killing his wife and himself.

I agree that the crisis workers can only work with what they have in front of them. If a person can trick them into thinking they are okay, they have no basis in keeping them.
If you expect everybody to be perfect, police, etc. then I would love to see you try to do their jobs.
This is total misplaced blame. Adults must take responsibility for their own actions.
Instead of the family asking for changes so somehow this doesn't happen again, they ask for tons of cash.

I agree that officials dropped the ball. Since his sister agreed to have him released into her custody I'm sure she was aware of his problems and the couples issues, therefore she must also accept some responsibility. It's tragic that these young people are dead, but if the family cares so much why didn't they see to it that the young man got the help they knew he needed?
It's so easy to place blame when we're hurt and angry, but suing is not the answer. Accepting responsibility for our own lack of intervention is not so easy but is the right thing.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I feel that the authorities acted poorly, yet I don't think that they need more domestic abuse training. I think that if they had acted merely sensibly or humanely they would have prevented this. I hate how everything is turned into some bureaucratic program, where the PD will suddenly improve if someone trains them in this or that sensitivity. Where's good old common sense?

Pat, where does it say in Crisis job title that they are supposed to be psychic?? All they can do is go by what they are told by the client and the police, and obviously if the police didn't think he was a danger then they both did what was right at the time. You don't have all the info and neither do I or anyone else that was not there, so for you to attempt to pass judgment on them is deplorable to say the least and you should be ashamed of yourself!! No one can predict that someone is going to commit murder and suicide...and if anyone could it would probably the family involved that would have the most informed background on the individual!! The end result was tragic but let's not put blame on someone that it sounds like did everything by the book

A law suit is warranted in this case IMO as to the failure to protect this woman from a person who definately needed to be detained somewhere and not turned loose to committ this type of crime,,,,,,,,The negligence on most parties involved is uncalled for and A WAKE UP CALL IS DEFINATELY IN PLACE HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!! No the money wont bring them back but it will make a statement to law enforcement agencies that more has to be done in situations like these and to take things like this seriously so it doesnt happen again and again. Had the right thing been done here and he had gotten the right help maybe these families would have their son and daughter home for Christmas. IMO

Rock County Crisis needs to be held responsible.Our family knows from experience how, very very lame and lazy they can be. Police Officers from any where is the county can take distaught , a danger to them selves in to Rock County crisis, the crisis worker asks them some questions, ONE being do you feel as though you will harm your self or anyone else. Are there firearms, in your home or available to you, drugs,,, etc... LIKE someone is going to tell the truth... NOT to many people who get taken there WANT to get locked up in Mendota.. IF the person tells them what they want to hear they let them go home... IT is pathetic the job they do..

The fact that this guy was taken there twice in a few short days is a xxxxxx red flag...

I don't hold the police responsible for this, because they can only tell what they saw from the time they picked him up ..

Rock County crisis does hold some responsibility is this... Sue them ,, maybe not for money but for changes..

To say they are awful is a understatement.

Hello? NEGLIGENCE. This could have been prevented if the city and county had followed through with their jobs! This woman (and ultimately, her husband) is dead because he did not get the help he needed after crying out for it so many times. There were plenty of chances to save these people and, unfortunately, several people dropped the ball.

glock- "teach a lesson"..Ignorant, stupid comment.

You forgot to throw in the maker of the firearm in this suit. Not trying to be rude but suing is not the answer. Here's why: If a reward for the plantiff is awarded, it will be a settled/agreed amount, all the defendant's insurance companies will pay the amount and the defendants themselves will not be affected other than time, & fusteration. Not only that but it will put tighter financial strain on this already tough economy. The taxpayers are the ones who pay in lawsuits against state/municipal agencies, why because in a loss situation, the insurance premium goes up and then so do your taxes. The R.C. Crisis Intervention is already broke. They don't house anyone anymore because of money. They ship them to Mendota. Rock County has limited resources for the mental health issues, suing them will only cripple it further. We need to keep what services we have. There are other ways to get things done besides suing.

Teaching the PD at the expense of two human lives? I can't figure out which is more sick-- the fact that the guy didn't get the needed help before this or that you apparently seem to think it is okay that people died as a result without the needed help.

It will teach the Edgerton PD to not handle another case this poorly.

filing a lawsuit isn't going to bring them back.

This was a TERRIBLE thing any way you look at it..But to sue for like 3 million?? For what purpose? It would not bring anyone back..