well said caddyshack243... The JEA are working hard and deserve support not the opposite because they sent information out that wasn't to your liking.

justsome1here: OK, you win. The JEA purchased the address labels from the JSD. I must presume you feel equally insulted when the JSD uses this same address label to mail to you your child's mid-term notices, report cards, school newsletters, and other JSD correspondence, and all of these are also sent to the shredder.

"Parent or guardian of" is not my name.

There are other unions in our county that are having contract disputes right now. One particular union has just stettled their 2006 contract and has yet to begin work on the 2007 and 2008 contracts. It is not cool when you have to work in 2007 at the 2005 rate. I support the teachers in their effort and hope that the other union will do what they can to settle two years worth of contracts. HORAY for education!!

Does anyone know who the third party is for the mediation?

luvujvl: The postcard is the big red box at the bottom of this web page.
http://www.supportjea.com/

justsome1here: The postcard was addressed to: "Parent/Guardian of". That means "you".

FYI - my kids go to a parochial school, and I did not receive the postcard in today's mail. I wish I would have - eventually they will join the public system in HS and I would have been interested to see what the mailing said.

Sorry Mom, but my point is, MY child's name should not be on the "postcard" MINE should be. I am hoping that ALL taxpayers received this and not just one's that have children in the school district.

justsome1here: It is my understanding that the JEA purchased the mailing list fair and square just like any other business or individual. If you do not wish to receive these types of mailings, REQUEST to remove your child's name from the list (thanks to NCLB from the fed govt).

As President of a Local Union in town here...I must throw my support to the teachers!! To be a Educator you also gotta be a friend, parent, disciplarian, and many other hats to wear. Anybody who does not support these fine people should have their heads examined. So, in closing, teachers take the school board and that so-called superintendent to the cleaners. FIGHT FOR YOUR RIGHTS!!!!

The green propaganda card that I just received in the mail went through the shredder because it had my students name on it. Shame on the JEA for using the mailing labels from the district as is. At least have the decency to remove the students name and use "current resident" (and yes this applies if I received materials from the school board about this matter as well). Once again the methods of the JEA has tainted my usually high regard for the teaching profession.

I am a student at Craig and I don’t think what the teachers are asking for is unreasonable. I think that anyone against the teachers should have to spend a day in their shoes, it’s not easy being a teacher but they do it anyway. I support my teachers!!

foofoogrl - You are not mistaken. These same issues have been raised in the district before and I have heard these same issues raised by teachers in other school districts for many years. This is not a new situation and it is not unique to the Janesville area.

The thing about giving up some of your benefits in a contract is that every negotiation afterwards they will try to take more away.

Look what's happening to the county employees now that they have caved in a couple of times. The insurance they are being offered requires them and their spouse have to go out and do certain excercise programs or they have to pay a higher deductible.

I don't know about you but I sure wouldn't want to have to go tell my wife she has to go exercise a couple of times a week so we don't have to pay more for our insurance.

But then again she will think I am making it up and not talk to me for a couple of weeks because I apparently I just said she was fat.

foofoogrl - You are mistaken.

I agree that Teachers should be paid a respectable wage, as well as receive benefits, but if I am not mistaken, these conditions have been know to the general public for decades, and when people choose to become a teacher, I can only assume that they are doing it because of a desire in their heart, not to get rich. Although unions and such are useful in some instances, I don't think that teachers need to constantly do an "in your face" about how underpaid they are. People do know this is a fact, and maybe people should really think long and hard before pursueing a career in the field, and if there was a shortage of educators, then I am certian there would be some changes made in a jiffy.

I understand what you're saying but they still have to be considered for cost comparisons of a total package.

They are part of the overall package. To me, as far as contract negotiations go, they are a non-issue as far as significant gains/concessions are concerned. The issues at hand, as they have been for the last 15+ years are COLA and healthcare. I just don't think it's in either sides' interest to add more issues to negotians that are less than productive.

My last question was for spunky because of this comment: "Personal and sick days are not really even issues brought up in the contract. If they are brought up for the simple act of "seeing how good/bad teachers really have it" what does this have to do with protests or contract negotiations?
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They have a lot do with contract negotiations if they are part of the package.

caddyshack, If they are doing this numbers thing as described 600 raise and then 750 expense, the public needs more of those details to help raise the awareness of the game playing they are doing. I tend to not read the emotional stuff and seak out the details like you just described...thanks

I guess the reason I brought up the sick / personal days issue was from an earlier discussion I saw related to the teachers total benefits cost and how the excess reserve money came from that total benefits package and therefore belonged to the teachers.
If that is true, then the number of days working / off per year is an issue as it a fair comparison to annulize all employment for comaprison.

ben: Thanks. No point there, I was just curious. Please try to remember that the JEA is fighting to maintain the benefits we have, not to gain extra benefits. I know this is the same argument as previously posted, sorry. We just want to keep what we have. The JSD originally offered us, me, a raise of $600, and wanted to charge me $750 for my insurance, resulting in a net loss for the year. I think you, and “everybody else” would fight that one also.

Are you saying personal and sick days aren't part of the total compensation package?

This thread has gotten way too far off course. Do I make a decent hourly wage? It is livable. Am I hated for it? By some. Is it a compensation package worth fighting for? You bet! Did teachers have it a lot better 15 years ago? Certainly. I can sit here and bicker with everybody that I don't make enough or the doctor or lawyer makes too much. An interview question I had was "do you consider teaching the most valuable profession?" My answer was all professions have their merit and it is not productive to determine which is more valuable than the other. Think about it: teaching opens the doors to all professions, but when the lights go out at the hospital, the electrician becomes more valuable than the brain surgeon. We are fighting to keep what we have, maybe you should too. By the way, when we work a 4 day week because of a federal holiday, we still have another 186 days to go. The day off doesn't count towards the 190. Personal and sick days are not really even issues brought up in the contract. If they are brought up for the simple act of "seeing how good/bad teachers really have it" what does this have to do with protests or contract negotiations?

There is the federal family leave act and there is the state family leave act. Both state that the employer must give a specified number of days off if certain requirements are met but it does not mandate that they be paid.
They do allow however, that if the employee has paid sick time, vacation, personal days, etc.. they must be allowed to use those days if they so desire.

I realize we have to look forward on healthcare but the past must be taken into consideration. I suspect the JEA would listen if the insurance fund was dry--but the JEA has saved the SDJ nearly $8 million dollars in healthcare costs in the last 4 years. The JEA also released $1.2 million dollars 5 years ago when the fund fell short. Why then should teachers pay in more to an already overfunded insurance program that they have responsibly funded in the past?
I realize that www.supportjea.com is JEA propaganda, but at least it has some specific positions and stats that can be discussed logically.
Sadly, we hear nothing from the SDJ-except an occasional blog from rocksolid Sodemann.

Sluggo, thanks for some information. I guess I am going to surf around and try to get some more to try to figure this one out for me. The media seems to have a way to slant stories and it always better to get the details from those involved...

maybe, but I haven't seen any contracted employees donate time up close and personal. I think really it comes down to making more concessions when there is no proof that premiums have gone up. Fair is fair - many districts across the nation are enacting a living wage for teachers - with a starting salary of 40,000 - that's almost 11,000 more than Janesville's starting salary.

The details, like only 2 personal days per year and no vacation time helps. Better details help make better decisions.
Teachers have the details that the public does not have. I always assumed there was vacation time.

See, I am on the fence on this issue. I hear both sides and am looking for a better comparison, like the study you mention. I hear the "well they got summers off" stuff. AND I also know that teachers definitely DO NOT just punch a time clock and donate much time. Many people in many careers donate time...

Isn't it federal law to have paid sick/family leave available if there is more than 100 employees?

Besides, regardless of comparing apples to oranges - if you compare district to district that's when it shows the differences. Out of over 400 districts in WI, Janesville is somewhere in the 60's for fringe benefits. Also, top ten for size.

So the contract is 190 days minus 2 personal days. Any sick time that is paid???

I know benthinkin. I just remember an informal study from about 10 years ago where factory workers actually worked less days than teachers if they took all their days.

probably conferences, meetings, Family Leave Act, Sick days

Sluggo, I was not trying to compare who's got it better. I am trying to get to the root details of this for a realistic comparison.
That is why my question was stated the way it was, I want to get it to a fair comparison to see the issue.

If there are only 2 personal days per 190, where does all the part-time subs need come from???

don't forget federal holidays - you probably get those off too. - not built in to the 190 day contract

I know that there is some use of substitute teachers. Do teachers get any vacation time during the 190 day contract???

oh - teachers do not get any paid vacation. 2 days per year for personal use

don't forget paid sick leave too.

After 20 years you are topped out at 4-weeks. I did not bring up the vacation thing as I am not familiar with what teachers get if any...

ben: A serious, honest question for you just out of curiosity: In your profession, how many weeks of vacation would you earn after 24 years of employment?

An earlier post refers to a 190 day contract. If this accurate, then 190/260 = .73. So a contracted year is about 73% of the typically known 52 week, 5 day a week work year.
So if you annualize the salary / benefits package is the pay really that low???
I understand the extra work put in by teachers in hundreds of different ways, but strictly speaking the annual salary is based on a 190 day year and if factored into an annual basis would be more.
This is like someone saying that a person who works 190 days is under payed when comparing to a person that works 260 days.

CC88: Another ridiculous comment, You are not paying 100% for our health insurance. Are you paying my 80/20 deductibles and co-pays. Did you take a wage freeze to maintain my health insurance. If you want to I will be more than willing to give you my address so you can send me my check!

CC88: is that another point in the column of "what's good enough for you is good enough for me" (despite surplusses and no evidence that premiums are needed besides blog and soundoff complaints)?

I grew up worshipping teachers, including my father, and wanting to be a teacher. Rarely have I ever uttered a bad word about anyone in this thankless profession. However the talks this time are leaving me feeling YUCKY about the JEA. The rest of us have been paying more and more for healthcare anyways, even in good jobs. So we have a hard time paying 100% for your insurance. Sorry, but we're almost in a recession!! And I have to admit that the JEA team gets nasty awfully quick - some publicity campaign that is. Sam Loizzo gave me hope, but it seems we're back to square one now. I just wish it'd be over already. High school students are definitely feeling it. Between this and the snow days I don't know what this school year will be worth in the end. It's sad.

wisconsinheat: I totally agree, it's never going to happen!

I've come to the conclusion that trying to get each side to understand the others' position in this is like trying to get a blind man to understand what the color blue looks like.

I hope that the contract talks are not being discussed in a classroom unless it is within the scope of the history of unions in this country. Hopefully it is being discussed in an objective manner, with both sides of the disagreement presented. Otherwise, it has no place in the classroom.

So just to anyone out there who has a problem with teachers lately, what exactly is your stance on this issue? Do you have some underlying vendetta with teachers? Is giving back to the teachers, not even close to what we owe them mind you, going to destroy life as you know it? People argue that the talk of contracts has taken away from your child's education. Well, if your child applies him/herself on a daily basis, there is no problem, although I doubt that any talk of contracts during school has severely impacted your child's learning. I think some people here are just fighting to fight, seeing as they have nothing at stake of personal gain. So even if the teachers don't get a contract, you nay-sayers can just sit back and go, "Yeah, I helped prevent teachers from getting fair pay." If some of you could just get back at me, that would be helpful. (By the way, if I came off as a little cynical, which is very possible; I apologize)

I am a teacher and I feel the need to educate the general public about a few facts:
--I get paid for my contracted 190 days. I do NOT get paid for winter break, summer break, etc.
-- I did NOT go into teaching to get rich or because I “get my summers off”. My summer is spent teaching summer school and taking classes, which leads me to my next fact.
--I am required to take 6 credits every 5 years at my own expense in order to keep my license. I worked hard to get to the top cell of the salary schedule which is a Master’s Degree plus an additional 30 credits, but for every 6 credits I have to earn beyond that, I get NO compensation. For those of you who haven’t checked lately, 6 college credits can cost $1000 or more.
--I spend approximately $500 of my own money each school year for supplies, teaching materials, books, gifts for my students.
--At least twice a month I go to school on a Saturday or Sunday to do work. This is not because I am inefficient at my job, but because all that is required of me in my job (including mounds of paperwork) can’t possibly be accomplished in my contracted day (7:45-3:45). That is in addition to the work I take home on most workdays.
--As a special education teacher I am involved in after school IEP meetings that by law require me to be there, even if it runs past 3:45. Compensation for time past 3:45 comes in the form of a 15 minute coupon that I can cash in for comp time, however most days are taken up by meetings so by the end of the year I have hours worth of coupons that I haven’t been able to use.
-- Are there mediocre teachers out there that should maybe find a new profession? Of course there are, just like there are weak doctors, lawyers, administrators, etc. However don’t blame the rest of us for that! There are procedures in place for administrators to get rid of weak teachers but they rarely take the time to follow through on that.
--Teachers are the only professionals paid by the taxpayers that are under the QEO. You do not see this applied to police, firefighters, or even ADMINISTRATORS for that fact. The public doesn’t blink an eye when they get raises or fair health care contracts.
--To those who say “If you don’t like it, get a different job”, why should I have to do that? I have given 15 years to this district with a total of 25 years in education. If I were to go to a different district I would probably be given 7 years of experience, putting me at a place on the salary schedule that would mean the loss of thousands of dollars. No one in their right mind would do that! I have a family too, kids in college, a mortgage to pay, taxes, etc.
I want our school board to show us respect. What we are asking for is not unreasonable, given the fact that we have saved the district millions of dollars with our health insurance. When they can show me they are losing money, then I will agree to pay a premium.

Just as there are community members out there who are not teacher haters, there are teachers that are happy with their jobs.

caddyshack243: I believe we are beating a dead horse here. No matter what we as teachers say, the public feels we already have to much.

I know it is hard to trust anyone these days, but I wish the citizens of Janesville would understand that the JSD attempts to take something away from JEA in every contract negotiation. The JEA is fighting to MAINTAIN benefits, NOT gain benefits. The JEA is struggling to keep what we have, and gain a COLA salary increase.

Maybe the Janesville communtiy is not ashamed of teachers, just ashamed of how the JEA and the school board approach negotiations.

bkrkim: Teachers did not ask students to picket with them! They did this because they wanted to. When I was growing up I remember looking up to my teachers. It was a respectable profession. However living in Janesville has made me keep my profession quiet. The Janesville Community almost makes you feel ashamed to be a teacher.

I'm appaled that the teachers would stoop so low as to have students protest with them. They have many benifits average people don't have. The teachers union is one of the most thoughtless unions in America. And yes I can thank a teacher for helping me type this comment out. But it took twelve years to learn it.

Actually, taxpayers pay 100% of the costs. Just because it comes from the state does not mean anything. The state money also comes from taxpayyers...

ok I'm going to hear it - local tax dollars. I understand all this money originated as somebody's tax bill somewhere - I can't figure out how much of the money is teacher salaries and how much is operating.

Caddy makes a good point. I wonder why the whining taxpayers aren't more interested in where their money is actually going. Teachers don't balance the books, they just want what's right, or at least comprable to other districts. I guess it's easier to cry about salaries and benefits. From what I see at the site below (and I definately could be wrong here and won't be offended if I am) taxpayers only pay about 25% of the revenue for the district. It's like looking for that lost quarter and not worrying about the other 75 cents. Try this site to find out where your tax dollars are going - it's open to the public.
https://www2.dpi.state.wi.us/safr/ann_da...

caddy: I don't disagree with what you are saying. I think what may be the hard part for people to understand is "quid pro quo" and what the "monetary value" of the insurance benefit (not the fund) would be for comparison purposes in order to place a value on the total package as it stands now and how it would change.
Kind of like "a la carte" pricing. This is where an actuary would be extremely helpful. I know it helped us immensely in our negotiations.
Anyway, I think that seems to be a major sticking point with the people, being unable to put a specific number on all things insurance as you can with a premium.

wisconsinheat: I completely understand that we, as taxpayers, really are not volunteering to donate more taxes. We taxpayers believe we have paid enough to run our federal, state, and local governments, and especially our schools. I fully agree with you. But let’s try to approach this insurance issue from another angle. The JSD pays the JEA on the basis of “Total Package.” And again, Total Package is salary plus benefits. And it does amount to something like a whopping $80 Million or so. The JSD skims the insurance fund off the top, and leaves the rest for salaries. Again, the JSD skims an extra $2 Million or so annually, and this helps to represent the growth of the Fund 10. Two million dollars already collected from taxpayers, and not spent on the JEA. Now, bear with me. The JSD would NOT have to collect EXTRA tax dollars from the taxpayers in order to settle this contract disagreement. The money is already there! In the Fund 10. The JSD would only have to spend tax dollars ALREADY COLLECTED but NOT SPENT on the “Total Package.” The JSD would not have to collect MORE taxes next year, but rather, spend the dollars collected in past years that were designated for “Total Package” salary and benefits.

As for your other suggestions, the JEA has done all of your suggestions. Over the past several contracts the JEA HAS held off premiums by accepting lower wage increases, higher co-pays and deductibles, gone only to physicians in the “network”, much like “everybody else”. You can see the JEA has accepted these money saving practices because the Fund 10 continues to grow. The JSD, however, continues to counter with “JSD has no money”, “We need 3 month’s working capital”, "There could be an emergency" and “Everybody else is paying.” C’mon. No offense, but we have issues when our school board members say they base their decisions on Sound Off comments. We have issues when our school board members say they trust the JSD accounting practices. I’m sorry, but the school board should be there to check and balance and oversee the accounting principles of the JSD, not to just say “OK, we trust you.” OK, I am a little biased, but even as a private citizen with kids in school here, I wonder why the JSD is making cuts and yet they have the largest Fund 10 in the entire state. Further witness the million dollar tax rebate next year, yet Dr. Evert is on record that the JSD must cut another $2 Million next year. Just how the heck do you give a tax rebate when you are facing a budget deficit?

In many cases, especially when signed contractually, teachers are fulfilling commitments already started until the end of the school year. At that point, depending on contract status, many teachers may choose to not volunteer again. Many made that decision at the start of the current school year, so damage to the students should have been minimal.
It was not implied or suggested that teachers are the only ones trying to make ends meet. I would not even suggest teachers are the only ones trying to keep what we have. However, if it is GM or teachers trying to keep what they have, they are the bad ones to too many in this community. Maybe more of us should do our best to respectfully question authority when we see things taken away from us.
Maybe the problem is that there is so little respect for our administration at the SDJ. That's a whole new can of worms but the lack of confidence in our leadership hurts our district. That has been a long-term problem that cannot be fixed overnight. It's up for debate whether that is the fault of hundreds of teachers or dozens of administrators.

caddyshack;.The "straight answer " comment I made was in reference to the many flippant answers to serious questions and viewpoints. I realize many of the questions and comments themselves are sarcastic (I'll plead the 5th here) but nonetheless serious answers also enlighten the readers that do not post.
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Also I would often hear answers such as "because there's a surplus" and "because we didn't use that money for medical claims it's ours." As we know, this is only partially correct. The taxpayers have a bigger role in it than it seems many are willing to acknowledge. That is one of the things I was referring to when I commented about telling the whole story. That and things like telling exactly how much in wages and other benefits you feel would justly compensate for paying part of the premiums. Apparently at some point JEA did offer to do just that but SDJ thought that the offsetting wage request was out of line?
Anyhow, that's the gist of what I was trying to get across.
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As far as your explanation about the "fund" , kudos for a well written understandable synopsis. That's what I'm talking about.
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In my experience, we also managed to stave off premium payments by going with higher out of pocket maximums, co-pays and deductables. Our reasoning was; if you didn't use it you didn't have to pay it. Just like your arguments. Have you considered going with higher limits in that area?
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It does appear that some teachers are just as closed minded as some of the non-teachers, which leads to frustration on both sides.
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And believe it or not, I really do support you. Good luck

He´s the fellow to please, never mind all the rest, for he´s with you clear to the end. And you´ve passed your most dangerous, difficult test if the man in the glass is your friend.

You may fool the whole world down the pathway of years, and get pats on the back as you pass. But your final reward will be heartache and tears if you´ve cheated the man in the glass.

"Some people might think you a straight shooting chum and call you a wonderful guy. But the man in the glass says you're only a bum if you can't look him straight in the eye."

Times are bad. To suggest that only teachers are trying to make ends meet is naive and simplistic and not willing to acknowledge what taxpayers have already shouldered for the school district is insulting.
Everybody deals with the love it or leave it situation in a career at some point and yes it is a difficult decision to make, but again, it is your decision to make.
Job actions do hurt students. If a committment was made, honor that committment. If teachers feel that it is a waste of their time to do so, simply do not volunteer in the first place. Again, the choice is yours.
Always question authority. You may not respect the person in authority, but you should always respect the position. However, lowering yourself to the lowest common demonitor shows little respect for yourself. Whatever problems you have with your employer, it should NEVER spill over and interfere with the people you are serving (in this case the students).

justsome1here: For it isn't your brother, or mother, or wife whose judgement upon you must pass. The fellow whose verdict counts most in your life is the Man looking back from the glass.

wisconsinheat: Since you have been involved in contract negotiations involving self-funded insurance plans, you may understand the JEA position better than anyone. The JEA position, once again, is that the JSD has over-budgeted the insurance fund 8 of the last 10 years. That insurance money comes out of the JEA "total package". If the JSD would have budgeted the exact amount of insurance dollars, then the JEA would have approximately $1.5 to $2 Million annually to add to salaries. That would be roughly $2000 annually per member. The JSD has never offered to share the surplus with JEA, but the year that the insurance fund was over-spent the JEA did agree to a wage freeze in order to help rebuild the fund. I know, old news. Just remember that we are talking “total package.” If we spent 0% on insurance, then we would have 100% for salary. The JSD has made a profit from the JEA total package by over charging the JEA for insurance. The fund continues to grow, it is the largest in the state, and yet the JSD wants the JEA to “over-contribute” even more by paying premiums, just because “everyone else is doing it”. I know Allstate and State Farm insurance companies operate for profit, but why should the JSD be allowed to operate the insurance fund for profit?

What questions would you like answered? I’ll try my best.

Sorry if the bonehead remark threw everybody off topic and incriminated myself. One of my main reasons for the frustration is some general attitudes:
1. Times are bad, so the teachers need to realize and deal with it… sometimes you can make an attempt to make times better for yourself and family.
2. It's your profession, love it or leave it… easier said than done in many cases. I'm not about quitting or going through 3 career changes before my midlife crisis. I’m willing to fight to KEEP my career choice what it has been for quite some time: livable pay and good benefits.
3. Job actions are hurting students: going to work by my contract time, working as my contract states, and going home at the end of my contract time is called going to work and going home. If you feel otherwise, maybe our contract should be altered and we should be compensated accordingly. You can organize the next dance if you have so much time on your hands. Two sickouts created a negative view by many, but some may argue there are few alternatives that have any bite. And trust me, students and busses did not have to "break through" the picket line on Mineral Point.
4. Respect authority by not questioning authority… Sounds like the American way to me. Does that mean you've never questioned your bosses judgment or lack thereof?
5. What's good enough for me is good enough for you: Sorry, but if you live by that rule, you are a bonehead.

Sluggo - If I did not value education, I wouldn't be worried about JEA using students as a "bargaining chip".

PS a counter demonstration would really show where your values are - not valuing education or your children's future.

justsomeone... what is with the barganing chip thing again. It's played out. Why don't you go volunteer your free time to advise a club? The bottom line is all this is for a better place for the kids where we can focus on education. Or do you want them growing up learning how to lay down and take it? That's great - then when they are the leaders we can truly be walked on as a country. Good lesson.

I find it sad that the these posts have sunk to the level of calling people "ignorant", "boneheads", and the personal attacks on character, etc. It has showcased to me that the lack of respect has permeated through every level of the educational system in this district. The lack of respect to the students in the district are the ones that concern me the most. They did not ask to have their club advisors not honor their committments, they did not ask for their teachers to pretend to be sick, and they did not ask to have to walk through picket lines to go to school. These contract talks were not even on my radar screen until the JEA decided to take action on the students and use them as a "bargaining chip" to force taxpayers to see it their way. Final thought - "When you get what you want in your stuggle for self and the world makes you king for a day, just go to the mirror and look at yourself and see what that man has to say."

Kenbjammen: I would love to see your counter demonstration! This would at least show your son that you don't just talk big behind a computer screen!

In response - "You say your son has oppinions, yet where has he spoken up?" I teach my son to respect authority. Evey day teachers are bringing up the contract dispute to him. He is trying to respect authority by not. This might be a good lesson for others.

"You say the teachers made a choice to have a career with a salary that they know, did you ever consider the fact that they might love their career?" - If the teachers loved their career then why would they picket their job and have a sick out. Sickouts are illegal for police, and health care workers, they should be illegal for teachers too. By staging a sick out they show where their heart is.

"You say your son had a full day of study hall, then why was he watching movies, students are not allowed to watch movies in study hall." - That's a good point, maybe some of the subs could answer that question. Maybe some of the teacher could explain why the lesson plans for that day were not available.

"How are the teachers not acting mature about the issue if they are trying to get a new contract?" It's immature to stage a sick out and to protest the students. That's my view of everything. Some of my sons friends parents are SERIOUSLY thinking of counter demonstrating when the teachers picket, we are afraid of the repercussions though, teachers can be pretty tough on those who oppose their opinion.

That's a good question Seabee.
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It seems to me that the intent of all the "protests", although I prefer to refer to them as informational picketing, is to "enlighten and educate" those of us in the "ignorant minority" so as to influence(?) the school board to submit to their collective bargaining demands..
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I am not sure if this is in fact the intent / goal of JEA because it has been nearly impossible to get a straight answer from anyone in these blogs.
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But, I unequivocally support them in their endeavor to secure the most beneficial contract terms to mutually benefit all JEA members as well as taxpayers of the school district of Janesville.
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But by insinuating that those questioning the demands of the JEA in these blogs are part of the "ignorant minority", I find it puzzling that they would be wasting valuable time and resources trying to refute our "opinions" stated in these blogs.
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It would seem that the silent majority will without a doubt prevail.
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So to that I say: It's been a spirited, entertaining dialogue, of which I hope no hard feelings have transpired.
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Teachers; best of luck in your contract battle. Although I may have seemed antagonostic in many of my posts,I was trying to draw the logical explanations out, rather than the emotional explanations. Some of you passed. Some failed.
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Just a bit of constructive criticism. When presenting your "arguments" tell the whole story, not just the part that you think puts you in a good light. It's easy to see through it.
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Good luck.

Seabee - see the post by Feb 6, 2008 at 9:06 a.m., by caddtshack243

Why are they protesting after agreeing to mediation???? That makes no sense.

"Majority"? Missed that.

Don't consider what is stated in these blogs as the majority, wisconsinheat.

"don't give in to the ignorant minority."
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Giving creedence to a lot of what has been stated.

It is nice to see future teachers speak with such intelligence. I just hope that when prizefighter enters teaching he/she will not be met with "you chose your profession, deal with it or leave it" and "what's good enough for me is good enough for you" mentality next time he/she sees a contract year. More power to you and don't give in to the ignorant minority.

I admire your vision prizefighterinferno, as well as your dedication to the profession. It sounds like you'll make a great teacher.
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However, and don't take this as a negative, only constructive criticism. Always keep an open mind and the ability to acknowledge and accept both sides of an argument. Judging from some of your past posts,this seems to be a speed bump along the way.
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Good luck to you.

I don't know how this whole thing will end, nor do I pretend to, but I do know that I am 95% sure what I want to do with my life. I want to be a teacher. And despite all this happening right now, I wouldn't mind teaching in Janesville. If someone asked me why, I could tell you because right now I could list at least 20 teachers, whom through my 17 years who have been like parents to me. I have always admired, nay, envied the connection the teachers and students have. Everyone can sit here and sling insults or "opinions". But mind you, if your opinion is filled with frustration or anger, it is an insult. Call your thoughts what you may, but I do not believe any unkind words are appreciated here. I look upon this page and see comments riddled with derisive language. Calling teachers immature, saying their contracts are "petty squabbles", even saying they should pick up and leave. Apparently you Janesvillians (hm...) have no idea what an impact the teachers have on your youth. Teachers are amazing people, and I aspire to be one. Any one of you is entitled to your opinion, but if you choose to open your mouth without opening your mind, your thoughts are not politely or wisely portrayed.

It matters not what my parents make, nor does it matter what kind of car they drive. It seems to me that you just want to bash on what people think, Kenbjammen. You say your son has oppinions, yet where has he spoken up? If he was as strongly oppinionated as you say, then he would choose to speak up. You say the teachers made a choice to have a career with a salary that they know, did you ever consider the fact that they might love their career? If they didn't, WHY WOULD THEY KEEP THEIR CURRENT JOB? You say your son had a full day of study hall, then why was he watching movies, students are not allowed to watch movies in study hall. How are the teachers not acting mature about the issue if they are trying to get a new contract? please, explain your side to this issue because I do not see it.

JEA Public Rally
Tuesday, Feb. 12th, 6:30 PM
527 S. Franklin St.

Janesville parents, students, union workers, and others are invited to join the JEA in marching before the Janesville school board meeting in support of Janesville teachers.

www.supportjea.com

justsome1here,
Not that I agree with the Sick Out that some teachers partipated in, but if you don't think watching movies or educational videos during the school day are good for your child, maybe that is exactly the point the teachers that did particpate were trying to get across. They are not indispensable and should be valued by the JSD and the community.

Why_Teach - As far as classic (or contempary) literature goes, I would rather they read the books first, and then make comparisions to the movies. I am not intentionally trying to dodge your question, I am intentionally not taking the "bait".

justsome1here,
So Schindlers List, To Kill A Mockingbird, Westside Story, Grapes of Wrath, Forrest Gump, A Streetcar Named Desire, The Odyssey,Myth Busters, Modern Marvels, and Bill Nye the Science Guy (typical movies shown during sub days) aren't educational? You never did answer my question. How many hours a night do you let your kids watch T.V. or play video games when you could have them reading a book? The education of your child shouldn't soley rest on the shoulders of the teachers that you don't support.

I feel that I have been pretty well educated and hope for the same opportunities for my children. My wife and I have always believed in supporting our kids’ teachers and whenever possible we let them know how much we appreciate them. We will do whatever it takes to get the school board to be more reasonable.

We own our own business and pay over $1100 per month for property taxes on that building. Then we pay another $400 taxes per month for our home. That’s a lot of money, to be sure, but in an effort to assure a good education for our children and yours, I am willing to pay this amount and more if need be. I do not want good teachers to leave Janesville. There are already some mediocre teachers where our kids attend and I don’t want that number to increase. A lazy, un-motivated, under-paid teacher can do much damage. I do not want a Wal-Mart education for my kids; I would rather pay a bit more for a lot more quality!

I thank the good teachers that have had an impact on my kids and wish you all happiness and a pay increase in the near future!

Why_Teach - I am not talking about educational videos. I am talking about actual movies (those that you pay money to see in the movie theaters). Documentaries that are used in conjunction with (not in place of) classroom instruction have their place.

justsome1here,
Good point, watching a video in school which is most likely educational may not be the best way for your child to learn. On the other hand, how many hours a night do you let your child watch t.v. or play video games?

Just food for thought - A movie shown in several classes in one day does not sound so bad, but just imagine that those movies are shown in several classess for several days a year. Then multiply those several days per year times several years of schooling. Imagine what could have been learned, instead of staring at a screen? Believe it or not, not all students are happy that movies are shown, they feel it is a waste of their time. And as a parent, I totally agree!

I can understand having a different opinion than the teachers, but calling teachers immature is just unacceptable. I applaud the teachers that are posting here for staying professional, even when you are allowed to be anonymous.

As for the comments about teachers knowing what they were getting into salary wise when they decided to go into teaching, that isn't necessarily true. Back in the 1980s when I chose the profession, there was no QEO that held down teacher salaries and Janesville as well as WI salaries were very, very competitive on a national scale - I did research that. That is why I let my Illinois licensures expire back then. Sadly, once I was enmeshed in the career, the QEO came about, and I decided it was important for me to live close to my family here in town. When I decided to accept a job in my hometown of Janesville, I was very excited because during my time growing up, I recalled a community that truly valued and supported the teachers and the education system in general. I thought I had received a top-notch education that got me into an excellent college where I did very well - thanks to my Janesville teachers. What a different environment this has become. I would like to thank "whythink" for reminding us though that it does appear that it is the same few who put out their very negative opinions. I have to believe that the "silent majority" is simply letting teachers do what they have a right to do - fight for a fair wage and benefits.

"Honestly everybody, it would be easier to support the teachers if they were acting mature about the issues." Kenbjammen

Did you say the same thing when GM walked off the job?
As a teacher I don't like the sickouts or the other protests going on but I realize teachers are pretty powerless in this situation. The board doesn't have to give anything because the teachers can't strike.
I think peaceful protests are a mature way to handle this situation. One or two sickouts vs. just walking off the job, be thankful our hands are tied because who would raise your children if school was no longer available.

Oh and yes, when I became a teacher I knew powerball was my only way of becoming rich but I also knew the health benefits and retirement would help make up for that. Now the district wants to take some of that away. Why would teachers be willing to take a step backwards? Teachers are not asking for a 20k raise and better benefits - WE just don't want to go backwards. Any MATURE adult can understand that.
As for your son, I respect his opinion and if he was truly upset over one "study hall day" he is an unusual kid. One day of movies and study hall never hurt anyone. Again, I don't like these options but what other negotiation options do teachers have. Name a mature negotiation option/job action that will have an impact and I am sure the union will try it.
I am listening...

As teachers we need to remember the loudmouth, hate the schools are likely the minority. If they were the majority the referendom would not have passed. It is easy to post on a blog or call the sound off with complaints and give us the perception of an unsupportive community. (School board/admin is another issue)

I believe most parents and community members do support the district but just don't spend their time calling sound off and posting on blogs. In addition, my job is to teach and one of my goals is to make sure the next generation is able to read the facts before spouting off about paid days off and other falsehoods. Hopefully I get jvlmom's children in my classroom someday. I doubt she would have the ... to talk like this to my face.

Teachers want to continue with the current benefits. I don't believe they are asking for a lot of extras. They just want to avoid taking a step backwards. When I get together with other teachers I am amazed at what their benefits are - grad. school PAID FOR! as an example.

Bottomline, it shouldn't come down to this. The funding of education in this state/country is completely broken. Read Savage Inequalities - Janesville staff might feel guilty for what they have - and all US citizens should feel guilty for what they are missing. The education system is not equal and changing how districts are funded should be a top priority. Problem, the rich vote and their districts are just fine or they just use private schools. In the south, if you are middle/upper class, your child attends private schools. How sad is that?

Kenbjammen: Kids typically develop opinions and views that are similiar to their parents. By the tone of some of your cynical post I highly doubt your child has developed an understanding for both sides of the issue. As they say "The apple does not fall far from the tree." My guess is that your child will become a cynical adult who wishes to voice his displeasure with a negative attitude. So many people have stated that if teachers do not like their job then they should just quit. Well Kenbjammen if you do not like the teachers in Janesville, then why don't you move?

ejrblue stated "Hey, lets ask some of the students what they think. I am a Parker student and I believe that the teachers deserve to have a new contract. I am positive that there are many more students who would agree with me" - You are one student with one opinion. My son has a different one. If you don't feel that teachers are making much, what do your parents make? What do your parents or you drive to school? The teachers made a choice to have that career, with a salary that they know. ejrblue how do you know about the issues, do you study them or do you hear about them in the classroom like my son does? What did you do when the teachers had a sick out? Did you have a full day study hall and watch a movie like my son did? Honestly everybody, it would be easier to support the teachers if they were acting mature about the issues.

I wonder why jvlmom hasn't apologized yet for the 'paid work day at home' comment - - admit when you are wrong.

ejrblue: it would be an interesting survey. Thanks for your input.

Hey, lets ask some of the students what they think. I am a Parker student and I believe that the teachers deserve to have a new contract. I am positive that there are many more students who would agree with me when I say that they should get a new contract. Teachers dont make a lot of money as it is, and they have to put up with students such as myself, I kind of feel bad for them, yet they can not even get a little bit more money for comfort. I say give them what the want and deserve.

First I was against it, before I was for it.
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Or is it the other way around?

I guess it comes from 80% of the comments being for the teachers or against the teachers. Admittedly, there is the 20% that say they are for some thing and against others- good for you for looking at all of the evidence. I am a teacher. With my admitted bias, I have not seen one piece of evidence that justifies the school board's demands of the teachers. The district is financially sound yet positions and programs are being cut. Class sizes are too big. Administrators continue to lowball teachers. The contracts talks more closely affect teachers, but there are issues as I just stated that everyone in the community with school aged children should scratch their heads over if not be outraged.

Where or where did this attitude of "either you are for us or against us" come from?

Regarding all of you boneheads that say change careers or locations if you don't like it: it is not as easy as you make it out to be. First, people have families and ties to an area. Second, switching jobs loses seniority and pay (I guess that means they can low ball us since we're backed into a corner). Third, have you ever thought how your child's school would look if 75% of teachers left? I say that because I bet 75% is a conservative # for some schools in this district for one reason or another, whether it is a weak administration, contract disputes, or lazy students. How would your child's school look if all that were hired for next year were 50 yr. olds who are on their 7th teaching assignment because they couldn't hold a job for more than 3 yrs. What about the 25 yr. old who won't get accepted from other districts because of lack of experience or "they didn't like how they were treated"- that sounds great in an interview. These are the teachers that would take over the SDJ: LEFTOVERS! Is that what you want for your child? Maybe you should support people who are standing up to KEEP what they have. If your child stood up to KEEP decent pay and bennies, would you be against them?

I notice www.supportjea.com has a Q/A section for interested bloggers.

Some telling graphs. I don't know of any government agencies saving money in the era of runaway healthcare costs. Somehow Janesville is, yet programs and staff are being chopped. Sad.

justsome1here - I have read nothing here that states "they can no longer teach effectively". What does that comment have to do with teachers wanting a fair contract, and using a protest as a tool to bring attention to their cause?

If a teacher is so disillusioned with their profession and place of employmnent that they can no longer teach effectively, then it is best for that teacher to leave. However, that is a personal choice that needs to be made by that teacher.

prizefighterinfo wins best post.

I will clarify (though I don't feel I stated that ALL of Janesville doesn't support us), I appreciate the support we do get, I am disappointed that its not more wide spread and congruent. Also, those that supported the referendum supported new building renovations, which in most cases were/are needed. Some of those renovations (i.e. classrooms) are not even being used because we don't have the staff. The community that supported getting better schools should hopefully support retaining better teachers as well (the referendum money does nothing for us in terms of pay or benefits, only buildings).

Oh, and do you really want those of us that are disgruntled to leave? Most of us that are choosing to speak out and stand up for ourselves are veteran teachers who know we are worth more and are willing to fight for it. Filling the schools with new teachers who lack classroom experience and quality mentors probably is not what is best for the kids. I guess I would find some solace that the people teaching in the schools are people who are willing to model the importance of standing up for oneself and seeking what is right.

JVLmom and others: I'm not sure about Janesville, but where my kids go to school, this day has to be made up on what was a previously scheduled day off - so no "paid day off" toady for teachers...in fact it is, like all other days off that aren't sick days, unpaid.

justsome1here - "If teachers feel the environment is hostile in the school district it is within their control to change that perception simply by changing how their elected union officals approach negotiations."

What are you suggesting? Are you suggesting that our union officials stop pushing for the best contract and roll over and heed to powers at be? Our union officials are fighting for a FAIR contract and that's what we've elected them to do.

I've only been teaching for a few years and IF I plan to stay in Janesville, I have roughly 30 years left. If we continue to consistently give in, what will be left in 30 years?

iteach - We (as a community) are the school district. As posted previously -If teachers feel the environment is hostile in the school district it is within their control to change that perception simply by changing how their elected union officals approach negotiations.

"I have to disagree that Janesville does not support it's schools." Not my point, actually. Thank you to those in the community who do support the schools, kids, the referendum, etc.! My point was that TEACHERS are not supported here by THE SCHOOL DISTRICT. Much harder to work in this negative environment than any other district I have experienced. I just wanted to clarify in case your comment (justsome1here) was directed this way.

If I was unhappy with any aspect of my job I would try to resolve it. If that didn't work I mysef would move on.

I have to disagree that Janesville does not support it's schools. The most recent example of this was the referendum (at the time of approval, the most expensive in state history) that was approved for the renonovation. Also, Marshall Middle School, Kennedy Elementary, the remodel at the elementary schools, etc. As far as the "job actions", etc., this is not a new concept, as this has been done before in this school district. Both the JEA and the school board should be ashamed of how they have conducted themselves during this matter.

My comment was not directed towards you.

spacejam,
Have you considered that maybe that is EXACTLY what new, quality teachers have been doing by LEAVING this district year after year? The turnover rate here is outrageous. Do you really want dedicated quality educators to continue saying, "This place does not appreciate me as an educator, so I will go somewhere that will"? Because that is exactly what many have been doing for the past several years and will continue to do as a result of the treatment of teachers by this district. I know MY resume is ready to go. Sad, because I like teaching kids here; I just choose not to subject myself to continual underappreciation and lack of support from my employer.

spacejam
Is that what you want these teachers to do? Leave. Who do you think is going to come here and replace us? Better teachers, who are now aware of how crooked this district is and how little they pay. You may believe this but I am sorry to say it most likely won't happen. Another point, instead of someone standing up for their beliefs you want them to put their tail between their legs, pick up their family and move to another town. Sorry I have more pride than that and will fight for what I believe is right.

Spacejam - I am not a teacher just a concerned parent who believes that many people in this community view our schools as daycare.

If you are unhappy with your job or the district , you may want to consider another job. It is unhealthy to be so upset over this situation. It's not good for you or the kids you teach.

This is all I had readily available, and I believe its been circulated before, but take it for what its worth.

Of the 8 school districts that are comparable in size to Janesville (Waukesha, La Crosse, Sheboygan, Eau Claire, West Allis, Appleton, Oshkosh and Janesville (average salary $49,050)) Janesville has the lowest average salary ($44,145). And only one of those districts has lower healthcare costs than Janesville.

We also rank 362 out of 426 for cost, with 85% of school districts in the state having more expensive benefits than we do.

I imagine that if many of your jobs, when compared to other similar jobs, had statistics that poor you would probably be a little upset and feel a little unappreciated as well. Especially when coupled with an employer that actually has an excess of money to boot and is unwilling to compensate fairly.

First of all, teachers and students will be making up this day because there are not enough days "built in" to our school calendar. Second, those of you who complain about teachers doing what they are contracted to do, should CONTACT your student's school and volunteer some of your UNPAID, free time to support YOUR student's learning. YOU ARE THE PARENT!!!! Third, I am often embarassed when talking to friends who have children in other school districts. Janesville DOES NOT support its schools. I moved here because I wanted my children to experience a well-rounded, diverse city. Shame on you!

billnewbie,
Sorry but I am a little more compasionate than that. I will tell you one thing though, my families welfare will definitly come before that of my students. If that means doing job actions (not working overtime for free) than I guess that is one thing that you will have to deal with. Also what exactly do you want me to think of first when dealing with "my contract". Do you want me to think of other schools of comparible size making more money? I don't care about that. Do you want me to think of other schools of the same size paying less in insurance? I don't care about that either. What I do care about is the blood sucking school district having 30 mil in the bank and wanting us to give them more money with zero justification. Sorry, I should consider more of your interests in my contract dispute.

Be happy today teachers. Paid work day at home when everyone else is trudging through the snow. Let it snow, Let it Snow.

IcareYdontU:
If a person disagrees with a teacher is that person trashing teachers? Some do, but certainly not all.

Why_Teach_in_Janesville:
So, your interests are all that count, is that what you are saying?

Billnewbie, what about the thousands of students in our district, do they count?

WJBecky, when I became a teacher I did it because I love kids, I feel my subject area is important, I have talents with it, and I want to pass that on. I never went into it for money, but I guess a little respect and appreciation would be nice. Its pathetic that on a daily basis people trash us on blogs, in the paper, in lines at grocery stores, and so many other places. My gosh, where do I live, I guess imagining we would get support for a fair contract was just too much to ask.

billnewbie,
Yes the JEA would like the support of the public at the school board meeting. Any support would be greatly appreciated.
I guess according to you "teacher's interests are the only interests that matter.", we should not be concerned about our families, but our first priority should be yours (students)?

Gazette, could you please post the pay and benefits for some other surrounding school districts in Southern WI. The public should know whether or not our teachers are actually being short changed. From what I have heard from other district teachers, Janesville's pay and benefits are at or above other districts. I would just like to see the actual facts surrounding this instead of second hand news. Please inlude starting and ending pay along with insurance payments (co-pay, premiums, and coverage). I'm sure the arguments will subside with proven info.

I wish someone would teach people that how to spell "lose" as in "lose respect". Seventy five percent of people (wjbecky included) on these logs spell it "loose" as in "Mom, I have a loose tooth".

Apparently, the teachers think that the best solution to this contract impass is for Janesville residents to go to the next school board meeting and demand that the school board capitulate to the teacher's demands, as if the teacher's interests are the only interests that matter.

I have a great deal of respect for teachers and even my 17 year old son has decided NOT to be a teacher because of the way they are treated in the classroom. BUT - it's still a choice of careers. I think it would be a shame to loose teachers because they feel their pay is unfair, but certainly that's what the rest of us do in our jobs. So - if you're really that unhappy - find another job that will make you happier. It's my guess that most teacher cannot find one they would rather do for the pay they would get.

Does anyone have any new material?
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These recycled arguments are getting pretty stale.

JCK: There is no arbitration. It has been replaced by former Gov. Tommy Thompson's Qualified Economic Offer. It is generally accepted that the QEO was his "going away present" to the state teachers' union for voting against him in virtually every election campaign. As redundantly stated, the QEO is a 3.8% total salary and benefits package. The JSD has repeatedly designated more towards "benefits" and less towards "salary". Roughly $1.5Million to $2Million annually. Hence, the continued growth of the Fund 10, which is, among other things, EVERY Janesville taxpayer's money AND potential JEA salary. Obviously, less "benefits" means more "salary". If the JSD and JEA cannot reach an agreement through mediation, then the QEO is imposed and the JSD will be required to open their accounting books and explain why they cannot afford the contract despite the growth of Fund 10.

For those of you looking for this all to be over, there are some great ways to do just that. Go to the school board meeting on the 12th, demand that the school board and Administration stop this ridiculousness. In addition, write letters to those people as well, not just posting blogs. The more public out cry and pressure you put on them, the faster it will be resolved. Lord knows the minimal job actions we can actually do haven't made much of an impression on them.

You, as well as "we", pay taxes, this is your (as well as "our") money the district is hoarding. Demand justice!

Kenbjammen: Do you believe your threats/slander regarding teachers character will result in a settled contract?

Here's a silly example of contract rhetoric: Obviously, today is a "snow day". On days when we have "one-hour delay" or "two-hour delay" due to dangerous and/or inclement weather, the teaching staff is still required to be at school at the normal 7:45 am contract time. The JSD must believe those days are only dangerous for the children, not the staff.

Personally I wish the matter had gone to arbitration rather than mediation. I agree with those who feel no one is benefiting from this situation and it needs to be resolved asap.

1234, the last time I checked parents who pay school and athletic fees are taxpayers too. It's rumored that teachers are taxpayers also. Every penny the schools have comes from taxpayers in one way or another.

Why does the JEA not list any union email addresses at their site?

The rhetoric of the teachers is wearing me out. Maybe the teachers would like me to start a website and list the names of all the teachers who had their sick out........My Son came home again yesterday from Parker talking about the time they spent discussing the teacher contract. This crap needs to stop. BOTH sides need to settle and settle quickly.

Nina, your comment being full of rhetorical comments and cliche's has me wondering about the rational thinking...

www.supportjea.com

lays it all out.

PS - I don't know what the rest of you do for a living - but do you want to be in a classroom of 30+ kids for 8 hours a day? Plus sports coaching, after school care, conferences, grading, etc etc etc? Bet you wouldn't give your professional time for free - when that 5:00 bell rings you're on your way to the car.........these teacher's aren't. Bend over, extend a hand, keep them happy. Our kids' future depends on it. By the way, no I'm NOT a teacher - just a parent. And I wouldn't give even 5 minutes of my time without getting paid for it.....

Come on, anyone with a truly rational mind is going to see beyond all this rhetoric. In their heart of hearts, people (parents, teachers, students, others...) must know that any cliche is overly simplistic. Duh, everyone knows that both success and failure are usually, not always, a combination of factors so let's not open a new can of worms...Anyways, the actual saying is that when a student fails it is the teacher's fault, and when a student succeeds it is due to his/her own hard work. :)

I see the arguement often that when a kid fails it is the parents fault, and now I am seeing that it takes hard working dedicated teachers in order for the kids to succeed.
Just how does this one sided success is us, failure is you debate work???

Get over it. These are the teachers who are forming your kids' lives. They are the ones working 14 hours a day to make sure that YOUR KID is getting the best out of the system that they can.. Give them what they want. They really aren't asking for much in the first place - just say "OK" and move on. They deserve far more than they're asking for - you're getting a pretty dang good deal just agreeing to what they want - most people would ask for a heck of a lot more. Just say YES and let's get on with it. Value these people who do a lot more for our society than the rest - give them some respect, would you??

I don't understand how some people can be upset by teacher "job actions", and say it is "unprofessional" when all that means is that teachers do exactly what is asked of them in their contract. Show up on time and teach their content area. People are actually angry because some teachers have stopped doing things for other people's children for free? I know my doctor doesn't do physical therapy with me for free outside of office hours just to help me out, nor does my dentist make appointments around his business hours to suit mine better to just talk to me about how to care for my teeth as I age or whatever problem I might have. The teachers are doing exactly what they were contracted and paid to do; managers of businesses don't keep open an extra hour after closing time because I prefer to shop late at night. I find it generous that it would even be called a "job action" - sounds like they are just DOING their job - jeez, I only wish I could demand hours of free service from all the professionals in this community.

spunky
An audit or whatever it takes. It's time for JEA to quit blowing smoke and do it. An open records request is legitimate and now all I'm hearing is excuses as to why you don't do it.
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Same as all we heard was excuses as to why JEA couldn't find the time to meet with a mediator.

What jqpublic said: they can show us what they want, but an audit is what it will take. Maybe there is nothing illegal about a for-profit insurance company being run by a school district, but let's at least call it what it is. Maybe I could buy shares of the company to get some sort of return on the surplusses.

I agree, how does fighting for what you feel is a just cause result in "unprofessionalism". What exactly would have been professional? For the teachers to just say...OK..thank you, may I please have another (as they are bent over once again).

jqpublic
I believe an open records request is a perfectly legitimate request. It's used everyday.
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When I was part of a union bargaining committee we filed a request under very similar circumstances, to get the true figures concerning a self-funded insurance plan as we prepared for mediation. We got the figures; had our actuaries and underwriters crunch the numbers; and ultimately won our case.
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Why do you seem to think JEA can't do the same?
From all I've been reading it sure seems it would be worth it.
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If you're that passionate about this I would insist on answers from union leadership about this option.

justsome1here,
First of all, thanks for now not only dodging my first question, Should teachers have to pay more in insurance to fund an overgrown surplus? But now thanks for dodging my second question as to how the teachers are supposed to make their side known. I am not trying to personally attack you here but would really like to hear your suggestions. Someone suggested a couple of weeks ago we get our information on a web site and we took that suggestion and did just that. www.supportjea.com
So I ask you to not tell me to act like a professional if you can't tell me how a professional would act in this situation.

wisconsinheat: In a just world this would be a common sense request. However the only way teachers are going to see the SDJ's books is to get QEO'd. The district would then get audited, they must prove they have a valid reason to QEO the JEA. Even this will be difficult because the JEA will surely have to file a lawsuit in order to seek the truth. If the school district would actually sit down and prove to the JEA that they have legitmate concerns regarding health insurance this would be a completely different blog. As stated in previous threads, teachers have made concessions when the district was in the red. What has been done for the teachers now that they are in the black? I will tell you what they have done! They cut teachers and hire administrators!

spunky
"The SDJ is running a for-profeit insurance company that can pay for $112,000 coordinators and give everyone $50 back on their taxes. By grossely over-estimating healthcare costs, the district A. keeps teacher raises at a minimum and B. pads the "fence/coordinator/rainy day fund."
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I'd say it's high time JEA filed an open records request so your union accountants can expose it for what it is. What are you waiting for?

Why_Teach - Dealing with public perception is not my speciality. However, in my profession we were always told that if you wanted to be regarded as a professional you had to conduct yourself in a manner that conveyed professionalism.

*my numbers here are hypotheticals, but I think they are in the ballpark*
An important point that has not been mentioned is that the teachers are given say.. a 3.8% overall raise. However, 2.8% is "needed" for healthcare coverage with only 1% going towards COLA. The JEA has swollowed this pill for over a decade. We are sick of giving in just to add money to their piggy bank. During that time, to my knowledge, the healthcare fund was in the red twice. Following those years, the JEA made concessions to keep the books even. Did all of you who say "if I don't get in a car accident, I still pay insurance" hear that?! We make concessions during bad years, but what do they do during good years? What about the other 8 years or so? The SDJ is running a for-profeit insurance company that can pay for $112,000 coordinators and give everyone $50 back on their taxes. By grossely over-estimating healthcare costs, the district A. keeps teacher raises at a minimum and B. pads the "fence/coordinator/rainy day fund." That's what agitates us teachers- using healthcare against our raise and nearly always having a huge surplus. That's what should agitate the taxpayer- next time your child can't find his orchestra teacher because she teaches in 6 different buildings, the next time he is stuck in a 30 person math class, the next time she has to take study hall because 2 more people needed to take the art class to keep the section alive (at least at PHS).

justsome1here
Yes that money was specifically earmarked for insurance. That is fine if you don't agree with any of the things the teachers have done to make thier side known. But how do you suggest they do this?

I guess the answer would depend on whether that surplus was specifically earmarked for health insurance only. As previously posted I do not have a problem with that money being used to fund programs or upgrade teaching materials. I also do not have a problem with that money coming back to the taxpayers. I do have a problem, however, with staged "sick outs", protesting in front of the students, and so called "job actions".

justsome1here
I agree with you it is coming from the taxpayers. So please answer my question.

Why_Teach - Where is the overbudgeted money coming from?

justsome1here and amishbob
I agree we are not a bottomless pit and they should not keep asking for more tax dollars when they have all this money. So do you think the teachers should have to pay more in insurance when the JSD is already 3 mil overbudgeted for it?

Is there a reason the JEA cant't file an "open records" request and have their own accountants crunch the numbers if you believe the district is hiding something?

AmishBob,
You are exactly right this money does not materialize out of thin air. It is from taxpayers, the point I was trying to make was that it is not all from Janesville taxpayers. Federal and state grants come from just that, federal and state taxes. So yes, lets divide that money up and give it back to everyone that paid federal taxes and state taxes and the interest we should give back to the bank. The point I was trying to make is that they are not going to give this money back so don't count on it. What you can do is work to make the books of the school district more transparent and not let them stash away millions of dollars for a rainy day pet project. This is exactly what the teachers are trying to do in these blogs. Don't forget we are taxpayers too.

I have no problem with the money in the surplus being used to fund programs or buy new textbooks. I also do not have a problem with helping to lower the property tax burden so I would have more money to pay MY health insurance premiums. The taxpayers are not a bottomless pit with an unlimited amount of funds.

Why_Teach_in_Janesville

I was figuring someone would say just this very thing "the district gets money from grants, federal and state". That money must have just magically materialized out of thin air. All of those places are supported by TAXPAYERS. As for the interest arguement, if the money was in my investment accounts, I would have been paid the interest!!!!!!!

1234

Do you really think the athletic money adds up to 30 million dollars. And how much do you think is left over after utilities, and all the staff wages are paid? As for the teacher insurance money, what did the teachers get paid with??????

Kenbjammen,
I guess I really don't understand your statement, "Any one blatent enough to say the teachers need to look out for themselves should then be telling the teachers to quit." What does that mean? Teachers aren't supposed to look out for themselves and their families and should only be concerned about yours(students)? That is the conclusion I have drawn, please tell me I am wrong and explain in a little more detail.
Amish Bob- Actually if you think all of that money came from Janesville taxpayers you are most likely incorrect. The district gets money from grants, federal and state, which may have contributed to these surpluses and the interest earned on an initial investment is also a part of this surplus. Do I think they should give the money back to the taxpayers, in a perfect world that would be great. But you know as well as I it won't happen. (They already tried to get the public on their side with the 1.5 mil they used to reduce the tax levy. Do you think they did that out of the goodness of their hearts or guilt? I doubt it.) One thing the district could do with this money is not make continuous cuts of programs and staff every year which will only hurt the community. After reading the article "School Board Considers Spending Some Savings" I would think that instead of people being negative towards teachers protesting they should now see why they are so upset about having to pay more in insurance to boost this already large surplus.

Actually 100% of money in this fund does not come from taxpayers. All school and athletic fees, some teacher insurance money, etc are all included in this fund (IF I AM NOT MISTAKEN)

1234

Just where do you think the "other things" money comes from. 100% of all SDJ money comes from taxpayers!!!!!!

sportthewar; Yes there are two sides to the issue. I wasn't trying to insinuate anything, only pointing out the obvious. Meaning that people will believe what they want and all each side can do is present their facts. That is why I commended JEA for their website.
prizefighterinferno; I wasn't trying to insinuate anything when I said "the facts as they see them." Admittedly, I should have used something more along the line of "the facts that they see as important to their cause." Again, I am only trying to point out that of all the "facts" concerning all the issues involved in this dispute, it is only natural and expected that each side will list the ones important to advance their cause. You shouldn't read anymore into it than that.
"Furthermore, the teachers do not speculate that all who do not support them are against them," this statement shows that you apparently haven't been following ALL of the posts on this issue because that is in fact the PERCEPTION that is being presented by many responses by teachers to posts opposing their position. Again, not all, but quite often.

Because it is not all from taxpayers. It is from many other things

I have noticed one thing lacking in all these comments. If you vist the JEA website, they claim that there is 30 million dollars in the SDJ reserve fund. If that is so, why isn't someone asking why the SDJ isn't returning the over taxed property owners their money!!!!!!

Thank you to the teachers and the many students who marched on behalf of their teachers. As mentioned by a few other people, the right to express one's opinion, displeasure, or support is a right and freedom in this country. It is what makes blogs like these possible as well. If anyone questions what the teachers hope to accomplish by their demonstrations, I ask what do we all hope to accomplish by posting our opinions about the teachers or protests on this blog? It is simply yet another forum we all have to legally and properly express ourselves publicly!

I think it's cool when you hear from a student who doesn't feel that teacher protests are taking away from them, but rather TEACHING them the correct way to protest and have your position heard in a democratic society. Well said, prizefighterinferno.

prizefighterinferno: You are a great example of the hard work and dedication these teachers have put into their careers. You obviously have had some very good teachers in your educational experience, along with some very supportive parents, and a great personal drive to work hard. Keep that great head on your shoulders and don't forget to thank those teachers who obviously have had a very positive influence on your life. You are headed for great places!!!

Just as a preface, to those of you who don't already know, I am a student at Parker, and I think I can say I have a fair amount of knowledge on this topic. Also, go teachers!
MikeF - That teacher actually had another side to his sign that read the vertical way, and he was facing it towards oncoming traffic, which even he found humorous.
wisconsinheat - I am curious of your statement that, "...it presents the 'facts' as they see them." So you are insinuating that they are, presumably, making these 'facts' up? The teachers are not just merely falsifying data to help their cause, and they even cite sources on their website, into which I'm led to believe you did not delve very deep. But if you did, I'm sure you noticed that they stated their salaries have fallen 5.5% since the 95'-96' school year. Furthermore, the teachers do not speculate that all who do not support them are against them, and I find your simile to the president a tad humorous.
MajorMojo - I hope you realize "...petty contract squabbles..." is possibly the most inaccurate way of which I've heard this situation described. Accordingly, I must inquire, how do you propose the teachers have put this in the students' faces? All I have heard about the contract issues is what I've asked about, I don't believe the teachers have ever force fed me any information about their contracts. The teachers are much more humble about this than many of you know. I am not sure if everyone is just pretending not to understand the teachers' angle here or what, because so many people are just saying, "oh why can't they just appreciate what they have?", when they have given numerous examples for their agitation. You citizens should be helping YOUR teachers, YOUR educators, not fighting them.

Janesville's youth are at school from roughly 8:00-3:15 (some more some less). That is just over 7 hours a day. That means that teachers are doing a huge part of the raising of today’s youth. Teaching math, science, reading, art, music, etc is just a small part of what our job is about. We teach morals, we teach manners, we teach how to get along with each other, and how to make it in society. Every year, more and more students come equipped with less and less of these basic abilities. Along with our normal subjects, we shoulder these responsibilities.

Considering all of this, I am appalled at the lack of support, respect, and appreciation from so much of our public. We are asking for a "fair contract", nothing outlandish, just what other districts like ours are getting. Is it too much to ask that when dealing with something as important as our youth

wisconsinheat: I whole-heartedly agree with your statement that there are two sides to this issue, but the impression I get from reading posts any time a new article is written is that most people believe the districts' version of the truth. I'm apparently one of the few who don't believe that "giving back" some money (which was a result of teachers being vigilant about health care) was out of the goodness of their hearts. Seems kinda fishy right before they offer a crappy contract that they knew teachers were going to be up in arms about, don't you think? Being a concerned taxpayer, I always doubt a entity whose sole purpose is to figure out how to spend money with little or no oversight(sorry school board). Let's see what the operational and administrative costs of the district are and start there with cuts before we start whacking teaching positions and programs again. One final thing, get off their backs about protesting. We've spilled blood for that right.

Mojo, the story suggests that is exactly what the teachers were doing once the school day started. In their classrooms, teaching children and working without a contract.

teachers, just get to work and teach the children. Keep your petty contract sqabbles out of the childrens face.

The Beloit Education Assoc. is still working w/o a contract this school year. They also didn't settle the 05-07 contract until second semester of the second year of the contract. Those teachers have let benefits go and benefits go over the last 10 years. As a former BEA member, I applaud the JEA for standing up to keep their benefits with a COLA. Once the BEA agreed "for the benefit of all" to cave into benefit demands by the board, the board felt it necessary to try to take more and more every contract. The problem with that was they never seemed to be a give and take. The BEA would give, give, give and the board would take, take, take. Hold on JEA! The students at your schools are your second families and you will always continue to care about them no matter what. But fight to maintain your benefits and wages for your own children, they will always be your priority, your first family!

I commend the JEA for their web site. Yes it presents the "facts" as they see them. But that's the point.

As always, there are still two sides to the issues. Everyone should do their own factfinding and make YOUR views known.

I support the teachers, but I also hope they understand that just because everyone doesn't see it the way they do does not mean those people are anti-teacher. It's not as simple as George Bush would have one believe when he say's "you're either for us or against us."

I certainly support the teachers... especially the one holding the sign SIDEWAYS! I support him getting remedial education and training on how to hold a sign so that the letters are upright.

Is providing Janesville teachers a contract which is at the level of those from comparable districts too much to ask?! There were years when Janesville was the state district in which new teachers would have given anything to teach. Check out the turnover of young Janesville teachers in the last few years. It certainly does not speak well for "The City of Champions." Good teachers are no different than people in other professions. They want to work where they needed, wanted and appreciated! It is quite interesting that when students and parents are asked about Janesville teachers, the responses are quite different from the comments of the Superintendent and the actions of the Board of Education. Which of our nations founders said, "When the government ceases to be representative of the people......." I am sure you can complete the quotation.

I think we need to have a counter demonstration to support the students. Any one blatent enough to say the teachers need to look out for themselves should then be telling the teachers to quit.

The Gazette provided reasonable coverage of the contract negotiations with Beloit Turner teachers.

I'm all for teachers getting a fair contract in a timely fashion. The irritating thing about this story is that The Gazette doesn't bother to print anything about the other districts in the area working without a current contract. In a perfect world, all contracts would be settled on time, but for whatever the reason, it doesn't always work out that way. I know that Parkview School District just settled their '05-'07 contract last summer. They are also currently negotiating and working without a current contract. I feel bad for the Janesville teachers because they don't have a contract, but I wish The Gazette would tell it's readers that Janesville isn't the only one.