TCB - unfortunately your probably right.

Oh yeah -and the congress is composed of a bunch of weasels too!

Just facts:

Unfortunately, you might be waiting a long time-if what you describe is what you require to make a decision on election (or primary) day.

One reason why I subscribe to the "party trumps person" theory. Many will hold their nose and pull the lever.

Futureteacher - Well said, and I couldn't agree more.

I am very much middle of the road politics, WDYS. You make a LOT of assumptions.
I've voted for Republicans. I've voted for Democrats. I've voted for Independants. I'm all for the best candidate and you never know which party that person will come out of. What I've seen in the last 20 years is pathetic to me though... The US needs someone new and vivacious to be a pillar that doesn't come with Washington baggage to weigh them down. And someone that is a visionary. If someone else stepped up to the plate with Obama's fresh face and outlook, I'd be considering them at this time as well.

What makes me sad is that people say things like "I am a total democrat, so I only have two choices" The system is designed by two parties that only want two parties. It is a system where those in power vote on their own compensation. They are over paid and will continue to limit the possibilities for a government "by the people, for the people" I believe there should be a cap on salaries and retirement for Government officials. I also believe there should be real choice and true democracy that represents more than a two party system. A system where it is "us against them", even when it comes to recent inquires into baseball drug use. The system is corrupt and no longer represents a majority, but rather, where my party stands. The most common comment I hear is "I dont really like either but I have to vote for one of them"

College-educated Margaret Mead allowed herself to be bamboozled by a few teenage Somoans.

We didn't learn until years later how that small group of "committed" citizens filled her head with effluvia.

(B-moon uses the Mead quote too.)

So, MLK Jr. and JFK were just "great orators" who should also be equated with Hitler? Stop with the Hitler nonsense. (insert rolling eyes) They inspired people to go to the moon. They inspired people to get up from the back of the bus and move to the front and demand equal treatment and respect. They inspired people to take a stand for themselves and for the betterment of the country AND the world.

It takes one person to be the inspiration for a country to stand up and take action. That ONE PERSON should be our PRESIDENT. We shouldn't want to change channels every time our President talks. We shouldn't be the laughing stock of the world because of our leader and the internal issues of our government and the stupid things our leader says and does. We shouldn't make the first choice of solving our issues running into another country to blow it up.

"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." ...Margaret Mead

This is MY wish for the USA.

NancyBeachBum, my post was a response for whatdidyousay.

I'd like to know how the people who wage war on our country responded to your wish for peace in the world.

The Obama JFK association comes from the emotions of youthful inspiration in contrast with the emotions of stable condservatism.

But you are correct, JFK was a cold warrior with the Soviets by way of tensions in Europe and other places like Cuba, and a hot warrior with the Soviets by way of its client state North Vietnam and other places like Laos.

People equate him to JFK due to his incredible inspirational qualities and ability/potential to bring the nation together as one--people WANT to hear him and they want to feel good about the state of the USA and from what he tells them people are moved to actually DO SOMETHING. Doesn't have anything to do with policies. If you want policies, policies, polices, mudslingling, same old story from the past 20 years... vote for Hillary.

The best quote I have found to date regarding Obama:
The problem for everyone other than Obama is that they are all telling us how bad the world is and how much danger we face and how only they are qualified to protect us...
...Obama makes us think it is possible to solve problems without guns. He is giving boomers and their babies and the babies of their babies a reason to look forward with longing instead of backwards with fear. If he is elected, it will be, in part, a reaction that says to the rest of the planet that we are the exact opposite of what you have seen in the past eight years and that we let slip the grasp of our government and leadership but things have changed and we will now be the America everyone expects.
...James Moore

Have you taken the time to listen to his "Yes We Can" speech? It's something to be mighty proud of!!! If this doesn't make you want to run out and change the world, I don't know what will.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe751kMBw...

It was made into a song as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHEO_fG3m...

Quite honestly, Nanny I totally agree with you, and I apologize to anyone if I came across as bringing race gender into this....I was just expressing my angst at the fact that people are doing this, and it is obvious to me, and it really bothers me. I am a total democrat, and I only have two choices at this point, and I feel that both of their campaigns are taking on a battle of irrelevance. That is all I meant by my post, if anyone misunderstood me, I am sorry. I also would like to comment on the fact that Janesville is a narrow minded community. I AGREE TOTALLY. I moved from jvl years ago because I couldn't even stand to shop locally because even a store clerk at the local grocery store would wait on me with some sort of chip. I then stopped going to jvl all together because of the overall rudeness of people and the overall ignorance of "gm talk". In my opinion, the people that nay say GM, are jelous in my opinion, and truely don't understand the company at all. And the people that are all for GM in my opinion, are ignorant as well. It takes levels of all types of businesses to make a community, not just the ones that make the most or the least amount of wages. Just feel fortunate that you have a job, whatever it may be, and unless you don't live in a glass house, think twice before playing ball.

Nanny - Very good post. I couldn't agree with you more.

I am terribly saddened to see that I come from such a small-minded community. I read national message boards as well as international boards and travel quite frequently, and will tell you flat out that Janesville is a place that is unlike any other that I know. People outside of J-ville commonly refer to this as "GM Mentality."

Pull your heads out, people. GM is NOT the reason you should elect someone or not. And the Union/Teamsters should have NO leverage on who invividuals vote for. Be your ON person and stand up and make your OWN decisions.

I see comments that are everything from "Obama is a Muslim" (FALSE) to comments about his race and that HE would be responsible for the GM jobs stay or go.

Get a clue. Really.

Go to www.snopes.com and type in "Obama" to read about all of the pure myths that go around about him and how they have been debunked, then go to www.factcheck.org to pick apart the true and false behind each candidate's speeches and TV ads... then to even go down the face road?!? What year is this again? That's right... 2008. It makes me ashamed that people even bring race into the equation.

I believe in Obama being a great global presence, a motivator, someone who people will actually WATCH the State Of The Union Address to hear, someone that can energize people to make a difference in their own world as well as other's lives...

He represents 2008 and oving forward to a greater future.

Do we want to take 3 steps backwards and put in Clinton... 10 steps back and put in McCain... OR do we want to be an icon to the rest of the world and put in someone who actually remembers what the cost of children are, what the cost of healthcare is, what the cost of student loans are, that can repair and fuse international ties--- someone who has not yet been jaded by Washington who has solid experience dealing with COMMUNITY... not being a Washington puppet for the past 25 years.

The choice is yours. But I KNOW who I'm voting for on Tuesday.

MY opinions on this can vary yet if you look at the states he is winning they are majority republican states and so if he is winning there now who is the real threat to the republicans in the actual President race NOT OBAMA as the vote will go to the republicans in the actual election the real threat to win the seat would be Hillary and if she is ousted now then guess who we have HELLO another republican

I don't need to validify my comments by saying 'I am not rasist' I was trying to cease comments such as yours before they occured by assuming by stating facts I am a rasist. I am also a woman and disagree with the whole 'girl power' people are placing upon Clinton...does that make me anti-women as well? No...I just believe respect should be earned by spirit, commpassion an integrety NOT on age, race, gender etc.... So, sorry to tell you this but my hole has not been dug, nor will it be.

hey no. of course fox news could have better ratings. if you have 1000 people, and 250 watch fox news and the other 750 are split between 'every single other news organization on television' yer gonna have better ratings. that doesnt make fox right

*i cant believe how ignorant and naive you people are that still think bush is ok. blah. watch something besides fox news.*

I get a kick out of everyone bagging on Fox News Channel, when every single other news organization on television is a blatant shill for the Democrats. Every. Single. One.

Oh, Headline News and MSNBC might throw center-right types a bone with Glenn Beck and Joe Scarborough, but that hardly balances out the Olbermans, the Matthews, the entirety of CNN, the entirety of PBS, the entirety of CBS etc.

There's a reason why those other networks ratings pale in comparison to FNC--they are fighting over the same leftist audience. It only makes business sense for an alternative to the others to pop up.

Foofoogrl - the majority of the time when somebody has to qualify a statement by saying "I am not racist by no means" they more than likely really are. It's kind of like Tony Soprano telling you he does mean any disrespect. If I were you I'd shut up before you dig yourself into a deeper hole.

*Yes, America provided lots of support to both (while the Taliban was fighting the Soviet invasion and Iraq was fighting Iran).

Then along came Dubya and he decided Daddy and Reagan were wrong about that support, I guess, and decided to try to erase them.
*

You can actually blame April Glaspie for that...she is the one who told Saddam that the US had no opinion of his "border" dispute with Kuwait.

Are you the type of person who bemoans the fact that FDR had to play footsie with Stalin in WW2?

I really don't understand mentalities like yours. On the one hand, your sort blast Bush for being a "cowboy diplomat" who doesn't make with or work with any friends, but on the other you blast him [and previous administrations] for making the wrong friends. You have to work with what's at available. Was the USA supposed to send several divisions into the Hindu Kush and fight the Soviets head-on in 1979?

If you want the USA to fight this war without the aid of people who are or might turn out to be the slightest bit unseemly, fine--reinstate the draft, put 10 million men & women under arms and invade KSA, Iran, Yemen, Pakistan, Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Indonesia, Algeria, Libya, etc. etc.

I didn't mean to imply that Janesville is the only city in the country that has these issues. That certainly isn't the case. It is just that Janesville doesn't seem any more open to change or the growth that can come from change than it was "way back then" and I find that very disappointing.

Could be...that Obama and Oprah are from Chicago....but Oprah has homes in many other cities/states as well. I accept your point of view, that she may know what he stands for etc...because they are in the same demographic region...but I would be willing to bet that is not the determining factor in her support. My opinion only, I am not racist by no means, but she does have a history of endorsing people/things based on race and or origin. And with skin deepness set aside, with her power and acceptance of so many, I don't agree with her using that to endorse a canidate. To many people are star struck, and are bound to make decisions based on their respect/love for her alone, and may not even know what obama looks like let alone what he stands for.

lindarae - don't kid yourself that bigotry and narrowmindedness is limited to Janesville.
.
I agree with most of your post. However, I think Janesvilles reliance on GM is not as extreme as it once was. GM is no longer Janesvilles largest employer, and the high paying wages are gradually be replaced by lower wage jobs through buyouts and work reductions.

Has no one noticed Hillary speaking to the Auto Workers???? Why is that not "targeting" a group? Of course it is and of course every candidate does that because that is part of campaigning, getting their message out and letting certain groups (especially struggling groups) know they are of concern.

foofoogrl - longest...post...ever

I first need to say I appreciate My Right TO VOTE, but I am offended by the fact that all these canidates seek out the "favorable" audiences, and tell them what they want to hear. This visit to the General Motors Plant should have been a STOP on his way to a universally available destination, not his DESTINATION in and of itself. Shame on him for trying to prey on the autoworkers union in such a time of need for them all. He has no power now nor will he ever, over what the economy does with their money regarding what type of vehicle they buy. A president cannot protect the jobs of these people, a president does not have the ability to use a crystal ball that will reveal what car maker consumers are going to choose to buy from in the future. Pretty clever tactic on his part, targeting so many potential voters in one shot, but please don't be fooled....HE CAN'T SAVE YOUR JOB.....only comsumers can save your job. Yes, the government has the ability to control over seas purchasing, inport etc.... but that card has pretty much already been played, and can't be taken back. Foriegners already have gotten one and a half feet on our turf, and they aren't going to retreat....no matter what these canidates promise. I am so tired of hearing the SAME things every single presidential year, health care, taxes, war blah blah blah. Yes, these are very important issues in a person's lives, and they would be a valid reason to make a decision, IF the promiser could deliver on their promises. BUT THEY CAN'T. It is not their sole discresion as to what is passed and what isn't.....and if all of these issues that have been promised for decades were truely feasable, then I am certian they would have already been put into effect being every canidate promises the same things. I am not saying that I am or am not going to vote for Obama, I am just saying that I think he truely made a mistake trying to gain personally from others turmoil. Also, I think it is absolutely ABSURD that he would allow OPRAH WINFREY to jump on his band wagon. In my eyes he willingly allowed this race to turn into a race of race. I am certian that OPRAH has voted in the past, but if my memory serves me correct, I have never seen her on such a mission to promote a canidate. Therefore, it leads me to believe that she is so gung ho for Obama because she is just trying to enforce BLACK POWER, I admit I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Tsk tsk on Obama for allowing people to even come to this conclusion, even if it is a false one. WIN THE CHAIR on your own, and without slander....that is when you are going to win the most votes.

Why does every discussion around here turn in to GM is good/bad? If they make cars that APPEAL to buyers, then they will buy them, if not, then that's the way the cookie crumbles. Personally, I won't buy another GM product because of the last 3 I've owned pale in quality to Honda or Toyota, and that is a fact. Obama can't do much for the economy by himself, it's up to Congress, corporations, and individuals to exercise some restraint and common sense, which so far has not happened.

Back to Obama, I'm voting for him. Why? I like his stance on issues, I "like" the feel good "rhetoric", and as much as I like the Clintons, despite the controveries, I think Obama will be a better President.

igotclout - Not even close. The posting record is probably 412, from a story about religion that was eventually shut down.

Sen. Obama yesterday delivered what was billed as a “major economic address.” But the only “new” ideas Sen. Obama discussed were ones that Hillary proposed months ago. Sorry, Senator Obama, but I'm not falling for all the rhetoric of "hope" and copying Senator Clinton's solutions. SEN. CLINTON WILL GET MY VOTE!

ive sold honda and gm both for years. you can read what you want in jd powers but hondas #1 in safety(my family). hondas #1 in resale(my money). hondas the greenest automaker year after year(my environment). hows that not superior??

thekid. Excuse me. But who is saying that Toyota and Honda make a superior product? Obviously you and others that support these foreign companies haven't seen the quality reports or the JD Powers numbers lately. The US automakers quality is the same if not better in some categories as the foreign automakers. Just so you know. I don't work at GM and am not part of the auto industry in any way. Just stating the facts. And why not watch Fox News, at least their whole list of news anchors isn't filled with liberals. Fox News at least includes both sides. (Hannity and Colmes, for example.)

i cant believe how ignorant and naive you people are that still think bush is ok. blah. watch something besides fox news. as for GM spending all the money on health care. its not GM's fault, its the freakin union. honda and toyota who build 80% of their vehicles in the united states by AMERICANS dont have that problem because they dont have the union. but they still have empoyees who show up every day and build a superior product....

I was raised in Janesville in the 50's and 60's and like another commenter, have since lived elsewhere. I, too, am shocked at the level of bigotry and narrow mindedness that still obviously ripples through this town. First of all, the rumor of Obama attending a madrassa has been disproved. There is no reason to believe he is a practicing muslim. Yet if he was, that wouldn't mean he was an extremist. There are extremists in every group, including Christians that are just as scary. Remember people felt this way about Catholic John Kennedy? And to the person who was so angry that he was "shunning" people other than GM workers....you said Janesville is divided into two groups...GM workers and non-GM workers.It is that attitude of separatism that encourages and feeds the problems that undermine the Senate and the Congress all the way down to the streets and neighborhoods of small town America....Personally, I thought it was very appropriate that he went to the plant since it is a such vital component of Janesville's economic health. A couple of years ago Janesville was terrified the plant might close, as I recall. All of the non-GM workers are as dependent on those plant paychecks going back into Janesville's economy as the plant workers themselves.It is not us against them...no matter who or what group you are talking about. We are all in this together. That is what Obama is talking about.

Here we go again, everything is about GM. GM is cutting health care benefits and wages dramatically. That is what the worker buyouts are all about. In ten years, if the GM plant is still running in Janesville, it will be an entirely different place. In fact, a majority of the workers may be guest workers if some politicians have their way. What would Obama do? No one knows. Not even Obama. He may think that he does, but all he really knows is what he would like to do now. That is all we can realistically expect from any of the candidates. We have to weigh those "promises" against our expectations and decide who is the most likely to succeed in accomplishing good things for our country. Politicians have to exaggerate to inspire us to vote for them. If they told the truth, they would get about 5% of the vote. This has been demonstrated in every presidential race that I can remember.

jd,
Does the government and/or the place you work at know your specific health care needs? No, they don't. So they offer a blanket health care package as an incentive to work for them. If you reject the health care package, they can pay you a higher wage. you can then use that extra money to buy a health care package that meets your specific needs. If you lose a job, do you lose your car insurance or your house insurance? No. Health care should be the same way. Why should you lose health care when you lose a job? I should be able to go shop for health care the same way I shop for any other product. In the end, health care would be much cheaper and the health care package will not change when I change jobs.

So you want them to cut health care and take that money and invest it in the business? What are employees? If there are no benefits, what would keep someone working at a job? I believe investing in people is just as important as investing in the "business".

jkl,
You have a way of completely missing the point. Yes, it was $17 Million, and yes the total cost of health care is $1500 per vehicle, but my point was that GM is where it is today because of the decisions it has made.

It is 17 million..not billion...and the $1500 per vehicle is the total cost of health care...not just for those drugs.

tater: Thanks for the correction, and yes, I should have taken greater care.
Yes Liesl, that is what I was referring to.

rockcofarmer,
Apparently the "false" facts come directly from GM executives. Try reading the article. It says "Lifestyle drugs -- chiefly Viagra" and GM passes the cost of those drugs on to consumers, about $1500 per vehicle. If you keep passing costs onto the consumer, there will eventually come to a point when a consumer will no loger buy a particular product - in this case it's GM cars.

$17 billion on viagra. Gee I wonder where false facts start? Dumacracy at its best

evansvillehousewife,
The Constitution doesn't specifically say "protect against Indian savages." I'm not sure where you got that quote from. Are you thinking of another document?
The Constitution lays out general guidelines. One of the primary responsibilities of the government is to protect Americans against foreign and domestic treats which is why we have the armed services and a poice force.

GM wouldn't be in the position it is now if would take the $17 billion dollars it spends on viagra for the employeees and start investing it in the business.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/20...

igotclout,
Show me where I said I approved of Bush tax stimulus package. That's right, you can't because I never said I agreed with it because I don't. Why do you keep assuming I agree with Bush on everything when I said he made the right decisiion at the time with the information he had?
I don't agree with the stimulus plan. If someone stole your wallet and gave you back $20, would you be grateful? The government takes thousands of dollars from and is going to give me back $600 and I'm supposed to be grateful?
I didn't agree with Bush approving the health care plan because providing health care is not the government's job. I don't agree with the No Child Left Behind act because education is not the government's job. So quit labling me just because of one comment I made.

After growing up in Janesville and then joining the military for 26 years and retiring somewhere else, I see things don't change much there. Still the same old prejudices that existed when I was growing up in the 60's & 70's. If you think George Bush is doing such a great job, then look around and tell me if your lives have improved under his administration. Has the nation debt been reduced? Are we less reliant on foreign oil? What does the future hold for your children? Not very rosy. Sorry, but you have to give someone a chance to change things. Obama isn't going to do it all by himself. Our senators and congressmen are the ones that need to change as well. Also, a secret agenda? I guess you want to keep the current administration and see us go further and further in debt. You will be the one that is standing on the corner asking for a handout.

mytake4u, I agree with you 100%. For those people that are totally blind to this guy's secret agenda, I feel sorry for you and this country if he is elected! It is a big conspicacy to overtake America and eliminate the Christian faith as we know it.

Actually, I was off: Islam has been around for 1,400 years, not 1,300.

mytake4you: Where do you come up with this stuff? "GO ARMY -- BEAT ISLAM"?? Do you really think our men & women in uniform are attempting to destroy a 1,300-year-old religion and its hundreds of millions of adherents around the world? Comments like that make you *sound* like a Nazi. I sincerely hope you are posting from supremacist land out in Idaho or Montana and not Wisconsin. And by the way, it's "Hamas," not "humas," and "al-Qaeda," and not "al-quida."

Sen. Obama’s stepfather was an Indonesian (he’s dead now). Why would his family threaten him with “harm/violence”? His American-Indonesian half-sister is married to a Canadian with Chinese heritege:

Konrad Ng, a University of Victoria- and McGill-educated film professor now living in Hawaii, is married to Obama's sister Maya Soetoro-Ng, and is part of what the White House hopeful has described as a "mini-United Nations" of family members who help shape his global perspective.

"If I am the face of American foreign policy and American power," Obama observed in a recent New York Times interview, "I think that if you can tell people, 'We have a president in the White House who still has a grandmother living in a hut on the shores of Lake Victoria and has a sister who's half-Indonesian, married to a Chinese-Canadian,' then they're going to think that he may have a better sense of what's going on in our lives and in our country. And they'd be right."

Obama's sister also returned to Hawaii, where she works today as a teacher. She met Ng - who studied philosophy at McGill and cultural studies at the University of Victoria - while he was completing his PhD in political science at the University of Hawaii.

He now teaches courses on international cinema and popular culture at the university's Academy for Creative Media, and has organized film festivals and lectures exploring the Asian movie industry.

Obama also made note of his Ng's Canadian roots during a 2006 appearance on the Oprah Winfrey Show.

"Michelle (Obama's wife) will tell you that when we get together for Christmas or Thanksgiving, it's like a little mini-United Nations ... I've got relatives that look like Bernie Mac and I've got relatives that look like Margaret Thatcher. We've got it all."

[http://www.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/story.html?id=e90a0327-fc04-467b-a511-22c0a95c20a2&k=56010]

nyconserv1:

Which of my remarks were not factual?

poobah, go to a doctor of your choice and find out why you still have Bush Derangement Syndrome. That is the overwhelming desire to blame all of your poor decisions on GWb. I will keep you in my prayers to get better. See a doctor immediately.

mytake4u:

You said "he will be under extreme pressure to give in to muslims in every way."

I was confused for awhile and thought you were talking about George W. Bush -- given the American support of the Taliban in Afghanistan and Saddam in Iraq.

Yes, America provided lots of support to both (while the Taliban was fighting the Soviet invasion and Iraq was fighting Iran).

Then along came Dubya and he decided Daddy and Reagan were wrong about that support, I guess, and decided to try to erase them.

If you're so nervous about father/son relationships, I think you should read a bit more about Bush I and Bush II.

Wow, somebody needs to take their paranoia pill.

this guy osama will NEVER let down the muslim, radical islamic stepdaddy. he will be under extreme pressure to give in to muslims in every way. i'm sure there will be a threat of harm/violence from the stepdaddy or stepdaddy's family that will supercede any loyalty to this country. remember, his male roll models while growing up were..............MUSLIMS of RADICAL ISLAM loyalties. GOD help us if this guy gets elected.

adulf77:

You have made a few "points" that really need to be addressed.

"I really find it hard to vote for anyone who once was of a Muslim religion. As, I will always question if he/she is still of that religion."

Can you please enlighten the rest of us on how a person like yourself comes to the conclusion that Barack Obama is a Muslim or ever has been? What sources do you use for your information? Who do you rely on for the truth?

"I am sorry if I sound angry but, if we are constantly hand to mouth and constantly feeling the pain of no quality of life and then hear illegal aliens getting all these tax breaks it can get one upset."

I wonder how many illegal immigrants or people in third world countries can afford Internet access and a computer like you? And you apparently have enough food and water to stay alive and are healthy enough to use a computer to complain about “no quality of life.” Over 30,000 children starve to death in this world every day. Be thankful. Can you please explain which tax breaks for “illegal aliens” you are talking about? I'm not aware of any tax breaks for illegal immigrants

"We only get rebates and they are not even great ones at that."

So, you want larger rebates? Do you have any idea where the money for those rebates is coming from? The government borrowed the money and you, your children and your grandchildren will be paying for them, with interest, for years to come.

This looks like it will be a disastrous year for freedom in America. Both the dummicrats and republicans are running canditates who believe the goverment can run your life beter than you. Judging by the comments here, the Bush derangement syndrome is alive and well. Enjoy the Kool Aid, just don't mind the aftermath.

*I have always thought of myself as a Republican but this year I am an Obamican all the way to November.*

You either are not being truthful or have no idea what Republicans believe in--Obama is about as far-left as you can get. Hilary actually is just a smidge closer to the center--she actually voted for the use of force against Iraq.

*even if bush lied, what else could he do? this country is full of a bunch of twinkle toed, tree huggers. its really getting pathetic.*

Totally pathetic. The only justification for invading Iraq was that they violated the cease-fire agreement that they signed after the Gulf War...FOR 12 YEARS. They would have gotten away with it forever if Bin Laden had not attacked us. We need a base for troops in the MidEast, and Iraq just happens to border EVERY troublesome nation-state in the region. They border Saudi, Syria, AND Iran.

It's not rocket science.

One of Bin Laden's big beefs with us was that we had troops in Holy of Holies, Saudi Arabia, well, now we don't Binny--they're all up the road, aren't they?

*According to your logic, you always do what your parents do\did. Very sound argument.*

That's not my logic. Apparently, your reading comprehension skills need some improvement. I was simply stating Muslim dogma.

*Furthermore, you apparently know nothing about Iran.*

On what do you base this assumption? On my statement that Obama wants to meet with them? Even though the US has no official diplomatic relationship with Iran?

* Did you know for example that approximately 60% of their entire population is under 30*

That's uniform across the Muslim world.

*and that have a very "pro-western" attitude compared to other countries in the region.*

And the Iranian religious police randomly beat people for dressing too Western among other things.

* Did you know that in 1953 we(the U.S)over-threw Iran's DEMOCRATICALY ELECTED prime minister,*

Yep, I know all about Mossadegh. Do you know why he was overthrown? It wasn't our idea.

* and installed the Shah.*

The Iranian monarch was never "uninstalled". You sure don't know much about Iran.

*One could say that this mess is our fault.*

I blame the Germans for starting WW2, which is actually the fault of Serbia for starting WW1. Shall we continue?

*Also, Jimmy Carter is not considered the worst president in history. He is rated 26th on average by most presidential scholars.*

Jimmy Carter's failings have yet to compile their final awful score. His inability to answer the Soviets in Afghanistan led to the Taliban. His inability to deal with Khomeini lead to the Iranians being on the brink of acquiring nuclear weapons, the Marine Barrack bombing in Lebanon, the destabilising of the Lebanese post-civil war state via Hezbollah, the Lebanese-Israeli summer war.

When the inevitable world war breaks out between Iran, Syria and whomever foolish enough to side with them and the US/Israel, all those deaths can be laid on Carter's doorstep, too.

If it's that bad, why don't you move? I'll even help you pack.

Dr Talk those munitions that were found were so old as to be no more dangerous than household cleaners and they didn't qualify as WMDs. They were produced before the first Gulf War, military officials said they were not a threat to the U.S. in 2003 when the war started. Why is this report circulating again on the web and every link about it takes me to a "Hillary is a Communist" site? That claim Santorum made in 2006 came as he was desperately trying to win an election he lost and was denounced by intelligence officials almost immediately. There is a big difference between these degraded beyond use munitions and the claims of an active weapons program used to justify the invasion of Iraq.

Hillary Clinton and John McCain conspired with George Bush to ruin the economy? Give me a break! I thought that it might have something to do with the outsourcing of American jobs, the increased global demand for oil, the undermining of wages by illegal aliens, the unfair currency and trade balances with China, and the subprime lending debacle to name a few. And of course, George Bush.

We sure are ready for somebody new, but I'm not sure this is the guy. His youthful enthusiasm will fade quickly if he is faced with the actual tasks. It is not going to be as easy as he thinks to make his ideas work in the real world. For example, he says he will end the war in Iraq and take that money and invest it in this country. That sounds great, but what money is he talking about? We don't have the money that we are spending in Iraq, we are borrowing it and if we pull out we are not going to get any of it back. It all sounds great, but means absolutely nothing.

Liesl: not that I want to speak for E-wife, but I believe that she meant to reference the Declaration of Independance in which there is mention of "the merciless Indian Savages". It was used as one point in a litany of King George's sins against the then thirteen United States of America. The D. of I. and our actual Constitution are of course different documents and care should be taken when quoting either.

id vote for ron paul cuz of his marijuana stance if he had a chance to win. ill vote/not vote for anyone based on their marijuana stance ALONE. im gonna pay taxes either way. im gonna freakin die either way. im a successful professional and a great father. its ridiculous that i dont drink or smoke(cigs) but im a freakin criminal for smokin a plant that mother nature put here for a reason. its got to stop and as far as politics go its the ONLY thing that will directly affect my life...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wQr9ezr8U...

Two rules: understand that if you google/moveon.org/foxnews enough you can find anything to back up your position. Lord knows our leaders have made good use of this type of leading. Second: just because a leader did nothing technically wrong or illegal, doesn't mean that person has been a good leader. It's kinda like playing not to lose.

Here's something to think about.........Ronald Reagan, who some people thought was such a great prez, was only a govenor for a short time and before that a movie star. Somehow he got elected and became a good president. I believe that Prez Obama will surround himself with really good people and make great decisions. He has not been part of the Washington political scene long enough to be in the back pocket of all of the sinister people, and as he says he is not taking any money from lobbists, all of his contributions are coming from the PEOPLE. I have always thought of myself as a Republican but this year I am an Obamican all the way to November. The thought of Billary in the White House for another four years is so scary, do you people remember all of the scandal that surrounded those people in the eight years they were there before????????? No thanks, and John McCain is yesterday's news.

Just becareful all who vote Obama. He is an eloquent speaker but, I question if he is a leader. King Obama says a great deal of good things, says and comes up with hard solutions is another thing. He is a youngin, and has no experience. Not that Clinton is a much better choice of democrat.

JUST DON'T DRINK THE KOOL-AID

bravo igotclout. you know what yer talkin about. who cares why we are in this war tho. we cant change any of the last 5 years. never mind the fact no ones mentioned that both gw's ARE OIL. oil was $22/barrel on 9/11. what is it now. any guesses how much the bush family/friends have profited?? id love to hear igotclouts take on the oil. im 30 and have refused to vote for president in the last 3 elections because it hasnt been about who's better, but who's not as bad. i will vote this year and i will vote for president obama. and honestly i dont know the details of or care about president obamas policys. what i have heard they make sense. hes got my vote for 2 reasons, 1)hes on record for marijuana de-criminalization and regardless of what youve HEARD the marijuana laws in this country are retarded. 85000 people die on the road from alcohol EVERY year, and no one has ever died from the direct use of marijuana yet we can buy alcohol on every f'n corner anywhere. we spend ridiculous money every year enforcing this stupid 'war on drugs' and president obama knows that. i do believe hes changed to just medical marijuana, but whatever gets him elected. reason 2 and more importantly is hes just dift. i dont care if hes never held an executive office. i actually prefer that hes not a lifetime politician. im so sick of the usual BS. after 4/8 years we may realize it was a mistake, but we also may think hes one of the greatest presidents EVER. i think the reward far outweighs the risk.

Question to E Housewife: Could you please give us either the article or amendment number to the Constitution that states "protect against Indian savages"? Thanks.

Dr Talk, you write like a Constitutionalist- too much Ron Paul will do that to you.
If we had all of our federal public policy based 100% on the Constitution, we would still be in short pants and tricorner hats. The Constitution, like the Bible, has never been able to fully address the issues we have today. You can't compare the Boston Tea Party to NAFTA.
Just because the Constitution does not specifically spell out that economic support is the role of the government does not mean it should not be concern of the government.
The Constitution doesn't say we should invade foreign shores and oust tyrants, but we've spent our great grandchildren's social security on just that.
The Constitution still, to this day, reads "protect against Indian savages" and we have not taken that out.
Time for a change, Obama 08!

http://www.publicintegrity.org/default.a...

I like this one.
Obama 08.

Yep, it's gonna be fun...

igotclout,
I thought you were afraid of finding out the truth if you clicked on the link.

“For our economy, our safety and our workers, we have to rebuild America. I’m proposing a national infrastructure reinvestment bank that will invest $60 billion over 10 years. This investment will multiply into almost half a trillion dollars of additional infrastructure spending and generate nearly two million new jobs—many of them in the construction industry that’s been hard hit by this housing crisis."

Where does it say in the Constitution that it's the government's job to help the economy? It certainly says nothing about the government being able to create a national infrastructure reinvestment bank. The economy is always better off when the government doesn't interfere.

igotclout,
I did not enter a partial link and the link works just fine. If you would have noticed the ellipsis (the three dots) would have known that there is more to the link.

“And I believe that if our government is there to support you and give you the assistance you need to re-tool and make this transition, that this plant will be here for another 100 years,” he said.
Translation = GM and the UAW have failed to compete in the global economy. Therefore, in order for you to keep this plant open you need to vote for Obama. 100 years?? lol I'd be surprised if it was here in 10 years.

*Let's not forget that our current President spent zero time in congress. He was the Governor of Texas, and a poor one at that.*

Being a Governor prepares one for being President better than does being a Senator--they are both executive roles.

As for Bush & his Texas job performance--it was good enough to get him elected POTUS, twice.

As for Obama and Islam. Islam believes that if your father is a Muslim, you automatically are a Muslim. Obama's grandfater was Muslim, not sure about his father.

Regardless, the most dangerous thing about Obama and Islam is his either dangerous naivete or willful disregard of its virulence. We are at war with a vast swath of these people and this guy wants to have all the Muslim countries in the world have a sit-down--the last thing you want these nation-states to do is sit down for a chat together, the ones that are playing ball with us might remember that they hate us.

Obama also wants to kow-tow to Ahmadinejad and Iran.

He reminds me of Jimmy Carter--the actual worst President this country ever had--and I think he would ruin this country economically and militarily, just like Carter.

Obama's rise really speaks only to the level at which people really cannot stand Hilary Clinton--and she has even less experience and qualification to run this country than he does.

An early version of this story made it online before the sentence "The Janesville Gazette received excerpts of the speech ahead of time" was inserted. That statement is now included in this version of the story and was included in the print version. Our mistake.

Scott Angus
Editor

pat,
"bush has lied so many times about so many things people can't keep track anymore."

Yup. So many lies that you forgot to name even one of them.

fmrjvlres,
Read my post more carefully. I said George W. Bush made the right decision at that time. And besides, according to the House of Representatives, weapons of mass destruction were found in Iraq.

Obama is the man for the job. bush has lied so many times about so many things people can't keep track anymore. All those lives lost based on his lies.

Obama will take the White House in 08.

Apparently you missed the 2006 House of Representatives report that there were over 500 chemical munitions found it Iraq.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/articl...

The article contains a link to the de-classified report.

Dr Talk. A lot of people make this argument, but I don't get it. Just because a bunch of other people were also wrong about WMD's, how does that justify Bush being wrong about it? Maybe you say it's because it proves he didn't lie, well ok, but it still means he was wrong. No one else used that shaky information to start a full blown war. Is incompetence better than lying? And, in the end, the point here is that Obama was right to oppose the war. You say we went to Iraq to continue the war on terror, but as far as I can tell Bin Laden is still out there and Afghanistan is still a haven for terrorists. Maybe we should have finished stage 1 before grandly and mistakenly declaring mission accomplished in stage 2.

DrTalk, here is the latest evidence on the WMD issue, straight from FBI agent George Piro who interrogated Saddam for 7 months. He is being interviewed by CBS's Scott Pelley.
"He told me that most of the WMD had been destroyed by the U.N. inspectors in the '90s. And those that hadn't been destroyed by the inspectors were unilaterally destroyed by Iraq" Piro says.
"So why keep the secret? Why put your nation at risk, why put your own life at risk to maintain this charade?" Pelley asks.
It was very important for him to project that (he had WMDs) because that was what kept him, in his mind, in power. That capability kept the Iranians away. It kept them from reinvading Iraq." Piro says.
"He believed that he couldn't survive without the perception that he had weapons of mass destruction?" Pelley asks.
"Absolutely," Piro says.

He can belive in whatever religion he would like to belive in, and practice it however he wishes. He is also free to refuse to say the pledge at anytime, it is his right. He may also be a senator for as little time as he feel necissary, not my state he represents. However with all of these things, in my opinion he should NOT be running for president of the united states of america. Go find something else to do with your time, and I personally would appreciate it if he stayed OUT of my town.

"Saddam Hussein initially didn't think the U.S. would invade Iraq to destroy weapons of mass destruction, so he kept the fact that he had none a secret to prevent an Iranian invasion he believed could happen. The Iraqi dictator revealed this thinking to George Piro, the FBI agent assigned to interrogate him after his capture."

igotclout,

I was talking about the responsibility of the Federal government, not State and local. The Constitution, which I mentioned, talks about the responsibilities of the Federal government. The 10th amendment says anything not mentioned is reserved to the states or the people.

Where in the Constitution does it say the the Federal government's job is to build roads and schools?

igotclout,

Iraq did have weapons of mass destruction at the time. George W. Bush wasn't the only one saying that. Jerry Kerry even said that Saddam had WMDs. Where did they get that information? From director of CIA, George Tenent. Who appointed George Tenent to that position? Former President Bill Clinton. Bill and Hillary Clinton are both on record saying that Saddam had WMDs. Where did they get that information from? From George Tenet.

You are right about one thing, igotclout - Iraq didn't have anything to do with 9/11. But that's not why we went there. It was about continuing the war on terror. It was about WMDs, which Saddam DID have at the time. Why do you think Saddam defied 17 U.N. resolutions? Why to you think Saddam kicked out the U.N. weapons inspectors? It was to hide the evidence. George W. Bush made the right decision at that point in time.

It's official: Barak Obama doesn't know anything about how Washington works. Obama said "It’s a Washington where George Bush hands out billions in tax cuts year after year to the biggest corporations and the wealthiest few, who don’t need them and don’t ask for them." But it is not George W. Bush's tax cuts. The President has no taxing authority. Sure, he lobbied Congress for the tax cuts, but ultimately it was the decision of Congress of which Barak Obama is a part of.

I don't want someone in power who thinks that it's the job of the government to "rebuild crumbling schools and bridges, roads and buildings" and "in making health care affordable or putting college within reach." If Barak Obama actually read the Constitution, he would know that those aren't the responsibility of government. If people think that it's the governement's job to provide those things, they will be slave to the government.

I know George Bush made a campaign stop in Janesville back in 04. And that John Kerry made a stop in Madison that same year. Did either of those candidates come to Janesville BEFORE they won their respective nominations? While I can see how many feel slighted he only visited the GM plant during this visit, let us look to the future. The true strength of his character, imagination and leadership (or that of his campaign managers/strategists) will show if and when he makes another Janesville stop between June and November should he win the Democratic nomination.

adult77:
" I really find it hard to vote for anyone who once was of a Muslim religion.
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This is simply NOT TRUE. Go to snopes.com and check it out for yourself. This site debunks many of the falsehoods circulating by the click of a mouse.

I just got back from the speech. This was not about another treat for the GM workers. There were about 200-300 people in the room. Most of them were not the workers, but were local leaders. This is more about Janesville then GM. Why GM then, mainly because it is in the news, just makes a better headline.

I really find it hard to vote for anyone who once was of a Muslim religion. As, I will always question if he/she is still of that religion.
And I have a hard time with politicians during this election. I do not find anyone of them who will probably stand behind what is best for the AMERICAN ONLY AMERICAN people.....

We are having a hard enough time feeding our own let alone all other countries at this time. And on top of everything else, if you go to Mexico they dont treat AMERICANs that great...so why in the world would we enjoy the idea of constantly letting them here. I am sorry if I sound angry but, if we are constantly hand to mouth and constantly feeling the pain of no quality of life and then hear illegal aliens getting all these tax breaks it can get one upset. We only get rebates and they are not even great ones at that.

So who are we going to vote for!!!!

Heck, Bugs Bunny is sounding good or even Huckabee is an option and I am not republican.

Thanks for listening

Obama doesn't create his schedule, nor does any other candidate
maybe not but who ever made the decision made a poor one by having only at gm and only talking to the employess. they are not the only ones voting in janesville. lets everyone bend over backwards for the g m employees even the us government

True, but at the time he was running for the U.S. Senate, and made it clear he would not vote for authorization.

When you think about it, it was BOLDER for him to have this position in a campaign than to actually vote against the war in the Senate. WHY? He was being honest about a position which, at the time, was not popular, and which could have cost him his U.S. Senate run. But he was bold, and in the end, right.

Obama wasn't in the Senate in 2003 when the vote to give authorization to use force in Iraq was taken. He was still an Illinois state senator.

jviers77 - My major problem is with the Gazette in this instance, not with Sen. Obama. Though I hope his White House staff is more detail oriented than his campaign staff at this moment.

If you just pick out the important parts instead of sqabling about whether or not this was a press-release and what we knew about the war when it was "authorized", you'll all see we have a great candidate in front of us if you care about the ending of the war and our economy. Obama wants to end the war in Iraq, he wants to put our money into our own economy, and he wants to help make healthcare more affordable for everyone. Can he deliver? Who says he can't? Who says somebody else can? What we all need to do is listen to each candidates' proposals and vote for the person we think best represents our values and priorities. There's no guarantee that any candidate can deliver on their promises.

Regarding Obama's visit to Janesville:

1) Obama doesn't create his schedule, nor does any other candidate. We shouldn't view it as a snub that he is visiting the plant. Instead, we should give him credit for visiting and addressing some economic ideas. Given he has 3 stops to make in Wisconsin today, it was a decision the campaign made, though I understand those who would like to see him being disappointed.

2) This article is misleading. Everyone's right. If you get a speech beforehand, then you report it honestly. That's journalism 101.

3) Not voting for the Iraq war doesn't show good judgement? Colin Powell was deeply skeptical about it at the time, and everyone praises him for it even though he had to make the case before the U.N. for war. Obama should get credit. He didn't feel the intelligence was sound enough to warrant war. And he was right.

Obama on the airBy Gazette Staff ( Contact ) February 13, 2008 - 10:36 a.m. EMAIL SUBSCRIBE COMMENT You can listen to a live feed of a speech from Senator Barack Obama on Newsradio 1230 WCLO in Janesville. His remarks are scheduled to begin at 10:55.

Obama is expected to speak about the economy during a visit to the General Motors assembly plant in Janesville.

You can also hear the address later this afternoon on our Web

Just to get it on record, the speech is scheduled for 10:55 a.am.

And I agree, this isn't "news", it's a press release. Very misleading. How do I get one of those "way-back machines".

Tell 'em what they want to hear. It all sounds good, but can he deliver? I hope that there is more to his plan than this. And please remember that it was more than Clinton and McCain who voted to give Bush the power of discretion over the use of force in Iraq. Where was all of this pith and vinegar when the votes were cast? At that time, the facts that were presented indicated it a proper course of action. And Obama voted against it. That does not show superior judgment to me. No one thought that Bush would screw things up so badly. A lucky vote for Obama and now he has Clinton and McCain starting the war. Let's be realistic.

Hybrids aren't made in janesville, and the vehicles made here are hardly fuel efficient.
.
It would be nice for a candidate to denounce the innefective, more restrictive CAFE standards. To paraphrase what GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz recently said, CAFE was like fighting America’s obesity problem by setting a cap on the size of our pants.

sure wish we could get obamas e-mail address so we could let him no how many voters he allieanated by only going to the gm plant and talking. what about the rest of us? we are voters also.

Did Mike DuPre finally get his hands on a time machine? This story was written and posted before Obama was scheduled to take the stage -- and no mention is made of that fact. Getting a copy of the speech prior to your deadline is great; not mentioning that fact is misleading.
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Oh, and I'm pretty sure Sen. Clinton's maiden name isn't "Road" ...