As the economies and advancements in technology grow in place like India and China so will the wages that they pay people. As that happens things will swing back around and it won't be cheap for the U.S. to go elsewhere and they will manufacture more in the states. It is a global economy that is evolving as time goes on.

How many parts that are used in GM come from the US? Where does the steel come from? If U.S. auto makers use foreign companies for parts then we really aren't buying an American Made vehicle.

Ford is in this position because they seem to have lost all business sense.Ford has developed a bent for offending their customers and being proud of it.Regardless of customer objections, Ford insists on backing the RADICAL homosexual movement....I'm not talking about their just being for "equal rights", as it were, their employee insurance now helps pay for sex-change operations..They've truly gone off the deep end and there is a big boycott aganst them..I think the website is www.boycottford.com..........

signed, nofords4me

You speak of "the market" and yet do not recognize that it is not a free market when some in the market have different rules to follow than others. That is not a free market. Allowing free market forces to determine the price would only be true if the complete market had the same rules.

If China had the exact same rules that the U.S. had for environment-labor laws-minimum wage laws- taxes and Democracy then they could not undercut on price due to the distance to market. So I stand by what I stated that shopping by corporate heads is the driving force.

Bthinkin,

No its the market that determines the market clearing price for labor. In the socialist economic system of the former Soviet Union, all-knowing bureaucrats dictated what people would be paid for the jobs they did and how much consumers would pay for the goods and services they provided. We know how that turned out.

In our market economy, we allow the forces of supply and demand to make these determinations. Water is essential to sustain life. By contrast, diamonds are mostly a decorative affectation. But water is abundant and diamonds are rare. That's why diamonds cost more than water, one's personal values notwithstanding.

A market economy may be imperfect, but it beats all the alternatives. And that's the way the world works.

I Love my Toyota and Honda vehicles. Made in America, employing Americans. GM must think that Hondas are better than their Malibu. In a commercial for the NEW Malibu, they say it is "Like a SUPER Accord." Janesville and all Local 95 Members...Welcome to the Global economy. GM has the number 1 selling car in China. If we didn't have a global economy in place...GM would be bankrupt and Janesville wouldn't have a GM Plant. Be thankful for healthy competition. It is the American way. It is what makes our country great!

TCB, "The market has determined that your skill is worth 23 cents an hour"

The market did not determine the skill was worth .23. The corporate heads went fishing and found a country that is grossly overpopulated and looks the other way when it comes to standard of living and worker abuse.

A company is not required to show social responsibility, but when they are called on it they claim victim. I would like to see companies have some social conscience policy if they are going to be in this society.

I see the main point of this story to be that Toyota is selling more cars than Ford and may soon sell more cars than GM. Everybody's opinion of who should buy what and who makes better vehicles means absolutely nothing to the powerful market forces at work here. The exploitation of cheap labor whether it is done overseas or in our own country by illegals or a minimum wage market always wins. This problem is greatly exacerbated by the current global economy trade agreements. In the past, when labor unions were born, workers could impact a company or industry by striking for as long as it took to bring about change. Now there are alternatives that can fill the void of missing products or services fairly quickly and efficiently. We need fair and incremental steps by our government to help protect our economy from the rich profiteering corporations. Unscrupulous politicians have sold the American Dream to corporate fat cats who view the average citizen as something less than human, a resource to be exploited.

Sarah:

The american consumer wins. Corporations big and small have 1 priority, to earn a profit. If the type of work/labor you perform is not worth 10/hour, the corporation has an obligation to improve its effeciency. All employees are paid a market clearing wage. There are many factors that determine that market clearing wage: talent, skill, education, past performance, (in some cases)nepotism, etc. The market has determined that your skill is worth 23 cents an hour in India. If you were making the decisions what would you do? Continue to grossly overpay someone or outsource the position to another location-which improves the operational effeciency of the company as a whole? What would the board of directors prefer? It is an easy solution.

I can't relate to many of the comments relating to American vs. foreign-made cars ... I can't afford a new one. I can't relate to the complaints about electronics all coming from China and Japan ... can't afford that junk either. Why? Because my job was sent overseas! Now, instead of paying me a whopping $10.13/hour wage, the rich American corporation CEO can pay the dirt-poor fellow from India about 23 cents an hour. Who wins out? Just the already-rich-and-now-richer American CEO. Could a union have helped me and my fellow American workers? Possibly, but I'm not so sure about that anymore either.

dub,
I was just pushing buttons but I looked into it. The #6 share holder in Toyota is State Street Bank & Trust Company from Boston. 27.14% of Toyota stock is owned by foreign (non-Japanese) Non-Individuals and .01% by foregin Individuls. This is as of March 31 2007 from the Toyota web page. I would love to buy an American vehicle again. If they start to make one I like I will give it a look. People must remember all cars are machines, they will all break at some point and just because one is good or bad does not mean they all are. Lets not get started on motorcycles.

TCB,
It was not my intent to say Wal-Mart causes all of Americas ill. We only have only ourselves to blame. My comments related to my observations in a earlier post. I see a lot of people that will criticize someone for not buying an locally made car and accuse them of costing local jobs. Then they will turnaround and shop at a store like Wal-Mart that prides themself on selling stuff at the lowest price possible. Well that price is also local jobs in the form of small business, local markets, and consumer goods manufactures that could not creat the product for the low price required. I will not hide the fact that I don't like Wal-Mart. But, I also do not look down at people that choose to buy a foregin car. Then buy products from a store that basically forced companies to shift manufacturing to foregin lands if they want to sell it in that store.

Trying to decide on a dollar amount that is OK to purchase in country or out of country is simply a convenience factor.

If I want local business people to drive my cars / trucks, then I should be shopping in their stores. If I want people in my state to buy my cars then I need to partonize my state.

And so on, and so on, and so on.

One time I had someone get on me because I did not ride a Harley, but a Eropean bike. When we sat down and figured out the bike content his Harley had many parts with from Japan / China and mine had only the tires. It pretty much put to rest the japenese junk debate.

I try to partonize local shops, but as with most, it is only to the point that it interferes with convenience.

Greenst:

I beleive the fact that Toyota is the number 2 seller of autos has little to do with Walmart. But then again, if this were the 1920s your target would not be Walmart it would be Sears/Roebuck or Woolworths. Consumers vote with their dollars and evidently, with annual revenues exceeding $350 billion some people believe that Walmart is great. What you desire is protectionism.

The market economy is one vast latticework throughout the world, in which each individual, each region, each country, produces what he or it is best at, most relatively efficient in, and exchanges that product for the goods and services of others. Without the division of labor and the trade based upon that division, the entire world would starve. Coerced restraints on trade—such as protectionism—cripple, hobble, and destroy trade, the source of life and prosperity. Protectionism is simply a plea that consumers, as well as general prosperity, be hurt so as to confer permanent special privilege upon groups of less efficient producers, at the expense of more competent firms and of consumers. But it is a peculiarly destructive kind of bailout, because it permanently shackles trade under the cloak of patriotism.

But go ahead, blame all of society's ills on Walmart if it makes you feel better.

I also find it ironic that the UAW was a staunch supporter of Bill Clinton; who was a staunch supporter of NAFTA.

Remember, they got NAFTA,,,we got the SHAFTA

Believe it or not, there actually was a time when all of our electronics were not made in foreign countries. Texas instruments comes to mind as only one example. But what happened? Everyone bought foreign. And to those of you who claim there is a difference between a 50.00 DVD player and a 35000.00 rice burner, tell that to the families of the unemployed, including former TI employees who lost their jobs because many, including UAW workers thought there was a difference between the cars they built and the products other Americans built.

I guess I am really confused here. So you tell me that the money that Jesus Perez makes in Mexico comes back to the United states along with the money for the GM car? The money that Joe Black makes at the Honda plant in Ohio goes back to Japan and is not spent here in the United States. That individual who makes Hondas or Toyotas here would be okay in losing his/her job if we did not buy Toyotas or Hondas just because the money goes back to Japan? How much of that money do we see anyway spent in the USA whether it is made here or not. The point here is that it makes jobs for people in this country so they can live whether it is a GM car or Foreign. I don't see any of the money GM or Toyota keeps for that car anyway. We do have choices in other products by just saying no. Just like the choice in the car/truck I buy.

Gazette fan - I don't think anyone could say it better. You hit it right on the head.... and pulling out the Yugo reference, sheer brilliance.

Most of our electronics today come from China, not Japan,(so you can stop waving that old Pearl Harbor flag around) as do about 90% of our products as near as I can determine. Wait until The Red Menace launches a successful line of vehicles and you will really have something to cry about.

Supporting the best product for the best price is the dynamic of the free enterprize system. I recall that up till the 1970s american cars became rust encrusted, mechanically worthless pieces of junk in a short period of time compared to how long foreign and american cars last now.

Back then, by the time an american car had 50,000 miles on it, its value was reduced to just a few bucks. Now 50,000 miles on any car, foreign and american, means it's just broken-in.

The imports had come along and raised the bar. A better product for a better price from overseas caused american car makers to be competitive and improve its product accordingly.

The Soviet's compulsory purchase of its only car produced junk. And the Yugo proved that americans will reject a foreign car if it's junk.

The way people choose to buy cars is part and parcel of the dynamic of the american inspired free enterprize system.

The battle for the car market continues. The best product for the best price will be supported.

I understand the limited choices there are in electronic in this country. But you can still buy them in a way that helps more Americans. Instead of going to Wal-Mart for that cheap new TV that is made in Korea or China go to Team Electronics and buy a Hitatchi. Yes Hitatchi is from Japan but they make TVs in Georga and Team is owned locally. Also One may buy a new car every 3 to six years, how often do you drop a couple hundred dollars at Wal-Mart? That adds up quick. I would also think that the profit margin is quite a bit more on all that must has stuff then a car. Are cars marked up 50% or 100% more then they cost to make?

mymaro, I apologize for my misread, but my point stands.

That's interesting--does she eat meat, too?

Why not just buy a Toyota and send a check to GM? You would still save money and at the same time help support poor GM workers and their families.

Some of these posts are beginning to remind me of one of my friends who claims to be a huge supporter of PETA. Yet, she wears leather belts, shoes, and sports very expensive leather purses.

mymaro--thank you for making your point a little bit more clear. So the reason that you occasionally buy foreign is because there is no other option (for certain goods). My question to the criticizers of people who buy foreign made autos goes further than electronics and vehicles. What about the plastic cup one drinks out of, or the clothing one wears, or the food one feeds their pets? Or what about the garage door opener, or picture frames, or tupperware that one buys at the local big box department store? I am interested to hear whether these products' countries of origin makes a difference. Or if it is just the large expensive purchases like vehicles that make the foreign goods purchaser anti-american?

Hey Union man mymaro. How many of your brothers lost their jobs when Ford and GM moved production to Mexico? Yeah the money may come back to the US (which I doubt Joe Blow UAW employee is seeing)but who is performing the jobs?

With all due respect, mymaro, I think you are missing the point of my question. It seems we have different viewpoints about our consumer choices and I would like to hear more about yours. I'm trying to understand how spending a little bit of money on a foreign-made item is more acceptable to people than spending a lot of money on a foreign-made item. You can buy a (whole lot of)new Toyota for $35,000. You can also buy a (little bit of) new Toyota for $11,500. How much is okay to spend on a foreign-made item? $50? $1000 $12,000? Where is the suitable cut off? Personally, I feel that if buying american is important to a person and the only electronics available are ones that are made outside of the USA, the clear choice would be not to purchase the electronics. It is hard for me to think there is no choice in this situation.

Profits form a publicly owned companie go back to their stock holders that can be in any country in the world. The economy is more global now then any other time in history. It is great to buy locally every chance you get but just becaues a companies head quarters is in another country does not mean all their money stays in that country. Some of Toyotas money could come right back to Janesville, they are traded on the NYSE. You can become part owner and buy a part of it.

mymaro--I'm interested in hearing more about how spending money of foreign domestic items "is ALOT different" than spending money on foreign vehicles. You say it's different, but offer no support.

I ask these questions because I have lived my whole life in a town that supports GM workers by purchasing GM vehicles and then they drive them to stores to buy foreign goods, all the while hollering at people who drive "rice burners". It's interesting to me how people's minds work and what drives them in consumer decisions. Further input would be appreciated.

For all of you "American" buyers, why is any different if you buy a $50 DVD or a $30,000 SUV. YOu are putting people out of jobs either way. Sounds like you want to just protect "your" job and don't care about anyone else. Sounds like the typical GM mentality. I am so sick of seeing the sticker that says: "We build American, We buy American" Did you know the only TV set that is American is RCA? Anything else you have in your home is foreign. The sticker on a lot of "American" made cars say the engine or some other major parts come from Japan. If we are supposed to buy American, then lets do it across the board so all benefit.

Maybe all you American car buyers should try to understand why people have switched to buying foreign vehicles. I'll start by saying the the first 4 vehicles I owned were American,
(Ford,Dodge,GM,Ford). I firmly believed in the "buy American" thing. The dodge was a nice car until it started falling apart after only 90K miles. The GM transmission went out 1500 miles over the warranty and GM wouldn't stand by it so it cost be a few thousand to repair, while I was still paying for it. I have since owned a Honda civic that required absolutely nothing except the oil and the 150K tune up. When I sold it there was absolutely nothing wrong with it and the resale value was great. I currently own ad Honda and a Toyota and have yet to take them in for anything. It is called Dependibility and Reliability, maybe the big American auto makers should learn what that is all about. I think Buick is the only brand that is reliable and dependable according to ratings indexes. Let's not get started on unions! Any person with any amount of common sense and work experience knows that unions protect the slackers in the work force and do nothing for the good workers. It is because of the opinions and views in this blog that our "American products" are not doing as well. Wait a minute, doesn't Ford have plants in Mexico???????? It is a GLOBAL Economy not an American Economy.

sfcm- Like the computer they are reading this on?

greenst--you asked the exact question that I was about to ask. I don't want to speculate that auto buyers who are loyal to american made cars buy other foreign goods. I want an honest answer from the loyal american auto buyers (those who condemn people who buy foreign cars) about how often they buy ANY items made in China, Japan, Malaysia, etc..

I wonder how many people that want to wrap themselves in the flag when it comes to buying a car, love to shop at that little piece of China called Wal-Mart. I know my fair share of GM workers that don't like it because we bought a Nissan but, run to Wal-Mart for everything. I would tend to think that Wal-Mart has cost more American jobs then Toytoa has. With all their cheap crap from China and all the small business they have shutdown. Ten Job here and twenty jobs there in every town in America does not not get the headlines like 1000 jobs in one town. I might be a hypocrite bucause I will buy a car from Japan or Europe but it will be a cold day in you know where before I would shop at Wal-Mart. At least most foreign car companies will build cars in the US and pay their employees a living wage. Also most European car companies are union. You can't say that about the Chinese companies that sell at Wal-Mart.

I hope Panzer is checking into how and why unions were formed in the 1st place in order to direct the blame correctly.

Unions were formed out of management abuses of workers in the past. If management did not want unions, maybe they should not have invented the need for them.

US auto makes have only them self to blame. First they compete with themselves more then other auto makers. Look at GM every brand makes the same car or truck. How many versions of the same vehicle do you need? Then look at what they did to the resale value of their vehicles with the employee sale for everyone. We were loyal to GM, five new cars by the time we were 30. We went to get a trade in quote for our car. GM put the sale on later that week, we came back and our car lost $4k in value. How can you trust a company that will sellout its loyal buyers out for a quick conquest sale? How many of the people that bought a GM car will come back when they find out that car is worth nothing? We have now owned Toyota and Nissan. I thank GM for pushing me away I could not believe how nice the Nissan is. It is the best car we have owned and they know their market share so I don't have to worry about a fire sale when they build more cars then they can sell.

As much as i hate to admit it, i know people that drive Toyotas well over the 100k mile mark with no problems. But, i also know people who drive Chevy's, Dodges and Fords with no problems either. I just have a hard time even thinking about spending my money on a vehicle that takes jobs away from the U.S. I may have to pay more, but it will make me a proud American for the rest of my life.

I probably shouldnt get going on this, but the problem is the Unions. They hold the employer hostage. The union demands and gets outrages wages for low skill jobs not to mention the health care benifits etc. The union protects all employees including those that are an embarssment to the good hard working employees. The employer has to charge more for their product to help pay the employee. There is no way we can go back to more reasonable wages so eventually the company will not survive and all those over paid employees will have no income instead of a reasonable income that lets the company be competitive.

We own a Dodge Ram pick-up that has had to have the transmission replaced already. (Well known defect Chrysler won't admit to). The paint is falling off.(Well known defect Chrysler won't admit to) It goes thru oxygen sensors like candy. So he drives the Prism to work.. I have a Buick Regal that I love but I bought used as I can't afford the new prices. We were a union family for 34 years. The US automakers are missing the mark. The middle class needs affordable,dependable, comfortable vehicles, that are good on gas. When the average person can't afford a new vehicle-foreign or domestic-without taking out a 6 year loan that's sad. I don't want a giant SUV that guzzles gas. My husband would love a new pick-up but we aren't going to pay $30,000 for it. So they need to consider the consumers wants/needs before they design anything for the future.

Thank you bereal!

There has to be reason people are buying them. I don't think that Americans in general would rather support a Japanese made product rather than American made, so there must be a reason that we are buying them.
Instead of telling people to buy American made products because "it's the right thing to do". Let's produce products that Americans want to buy not because of where it's made but because it's a quality product at a fair price.

Another part that I forgot to add. Everyone should note that these Toyota plants, (and most other foreign manufacturing facilities), are non-union. So much for "the backbone of our nations success".

Sorry, my post should have been addressed to ski1357.

OnWI: Foreign (whether parts put together, sold, and maintained on American soil or foreign shores) does not equal "junk" in all manufacturing just as domestic does not always mean reliable, responsible, and 100% American in all instances. Corporate CEOs need to be more aware of and responsive to consumer trends and preferences when making their manufacturing decisions. An informed and educated buyer will always lean towards quality and trustworthiness no matter where an item comes from or who is producing a product. (BTW: Also an advocate STRONG labor unions which are the very backbone of our nation's success!)

OnWI: I don't disagree with you. I work very hard for my paycheck and when I have to make a large purchase I have to evaluate the best value for the dollar. Unfortunately for GM and Ford, my car choices have been with Toyota.I have owned other (American made) cars and none of them have even come close to the quality that Toyota has given me, especially with the low maintenance. Until the American car makers can compete at all levels I have to stick what I know is best for me.

I own a '93 Geo Prizm that was built on the same production line , in California, as a Toyota Corolla, looks just like a Toyota Corolla, was sold as a Chevy product. We have serviced it at our local Chevy dealer. It is still going strong at over 200,000 miles and gets 36 mpg. Show me a Chevy product today that is as dependable as that has been and I would consider a real Chevy in a heartbeat...and yes I have relatives working at Chevy..

j01603456; That is the whole problem. So many people believe that just because its built here that the bulk of the money stays here. Yes, Toyota has been very good for the economy of the areas where their production plants are located. However, allowing these foreign car manufacturers into the US, has led to the downfall of the American auto industry. I know the next argument will be that GM, Ford, and Chrysler also build vehicles in Canada and Mexico, this is true. But the majority of the money made by these vehicles comes back here to the US, unlike when you buy a Toyota. Yes, you are correct we have choices as Americans, but why would anyone make the choice to support a foreign economy when the auto industry has such a huge impact here??

I wonder what the price diffrence is between an equally equiped F150 and a Tundra?

OnWI; Perhaps you are misinformed. I drive a Toyota and it was made in America.The dealership is in America. The garage that services it is in America. The beauty of being an American is that we all have choices. Are these people any less important than those that work at GM or Ford?

Thank you to all you Americans who helped Toyota become number two. Maybe, you can buy some more foreign junk this year and put even more Americans out of work.