I read this forum and more and more think that my deciding to go back to school(I have had my own business since early 90's and I pay for my own eduction), get certification, and teach here in Janesville someday is absurd. I asked others in Whitewater(both profs and students) their opinions. Not one person whom I would want to teach MY children would teach in the Janesville district.
Secondly, I wonder why elected officals and administration salaries are not voted on by the public or capped. I dont think an elected official should make what they make. I dont think the board represented the public on Dr Evert's salary. The same goes for elected officials. They work in a governement which is "by the people, for the people."
I also think that teachers should strike, legally or illegally, if they feel that it is their last resort. Teachers shape our world. They shape the moral stucture, the finacial side, the future of our children's lives, and so much more. Maybe it is time for non public education accross the board, period. Those who want good QUALITY education for their children can pay for it, those who dont can teach their kids to ask "hey I axed you, do you wunt frys with dat?" The class structure of our society will change rather quickly and the laws of evolution and mother nature will solve more problems for some of the posters here(or their future heritage). Just my 2 cents

Where's Rodney King when you need him??

Can't we all just get along??

Go Packers!!

Newbie, Spunk, and heat:

Comparing GM-UAW to JSD/JEA is a poor analogy. A closer comparison can be drawn to gov't employees who are unionized (police, firemen, etc).

For example, once upon a time labor unions represented legitimate grievances of workers and offered a counterbalance to businesses that conspired to restrict competition at the expense of consumers.

That was then, this is now.

Ironically, unions became victims of their own success. After they won redress for their legitimate grievances, the dynamics of union politics pushed militant union leaders to pursue unreasonable demands, driving companies out of business, undermining entire industries and destroying their own jobs in the process. Today, only 7 percent of private-sector workers belong to unions (down from 20 percent in 1983).

By comparison, 36 percent of government workers are unionized. But their jobs are secure - you can't drive government out of business and taxpayers are more captive than consumers.

The fundamental flaw in that comparison is that the better the "deal" the higher the cost of the product; but no one is forced to buy that product.
The better the deal for teachers (not saying they aren't worth it) the higher the cost of the service; and everyone is forced to buy that service through their taxes.

While comparing GM workers to teachers, here's another way to look at it. Unfortunately for GM workers, they were put between a rock and a hard place: make concessions or face losing many more jobs because of overseas competition. Enter teachers. Some may say we will always need teachers and always have teachers so pay them just enough. Others may say we will always need teachers so they are the ones that now carry the torch that the auto workers, steel workers, etc. once carried that meant if someone got a good deal, maybe that would spread a little bit to everyone else.

A comparison has been made between Union Teachers and GM's Union workers. I would like to point out that GM has the option to replace its workers should it ever see fit to do so when its contract with them runs out and that if GM agrees to a labor contract that it cannot honor, it can declare bankruptcy, or sell itself or even shut down. The school district has none of these options, therefore the Teachers Union has an advantage that GM's Union does not. Because of this advantage the state legislature has decided that Teacher's Unions are not allowed to strike. Since strikes are not allowed, when the union and the district do finally agree to a new contract, the terms will be retroactive so that while teachers are still working under the terms of the expired contract, they will be paid for the raises they will receive from the first day after the old contract expired. The legislature also recognized that unlike GM's owners, the school district does not pay its employees from the earnings of the school district, it has none, but from taxes taken from property tax payers as well as income tax payers and sales tax payers, which include ever man, woman, and child in the state, whether they have a student enrolled or not. Therefore the Legislature saw fit to pass the QED law to control tax increases which have gotten out of hand in the past and would quickly do so again without this kind of control.

Am I missing something? If the district were to impose a QEO (3.8% increase of combined pay and bennies) it would be a better offer than the roughly 3.5% increase currently offered. Plus they would not be able to screw with the premium payments?

Moco- The world I live in is not as black and white as yours seems to be. Mine has many shades of grey. In order to come to an agreeable solution, you do not need to be for or against anyone you just need to have an open mind and be willing to compromise.

rocky....to me it seems as if he is just providing info. Other than the 1 time where he called someone out on the facts he has just been providing. After I hear more and more from him, I have to admit that I was entirely wrong about him. I'm sure I won't agree with everything but I've gained a new perspective for the job he does. Bill I apologize and appreciate what you do.

Mr Sodeman thank you for the clarification. I appreciate that and your honesty.

This isn't meant as an accusation - but a question....Is it appropriate for Mr. Sodemann, as a school board member, to be debating this (and personnel issues such as Dr. Everett's raise) on a public forum? Not that I don't appreciate his candor... I just don't want to see something like this jump up and bite back.

Man, GM strikes and they get a standing ovation, the teachers strike and are ridiculed. I am 100% in favor of the teachers sticking up for what they believe in. No one knows what it is like to teach until you witness it first-hand. I am not a teacher but have seen and know what goes on. Teachers, keep standing up for what you believe in!!!

Commissioner Sodemann: I appreciate very much that you are looking for answers to the topics being addressed. I have always felt that the board does its best to make decisions based on what is best for the community and our district. I must admit that I believe there have been times that the administration has sort of pulled the wool over your eyes, but that's our fault for not being there to tell the whole story, especially during open forums. It's the brave person who puts themself in a position of "tell all," and I look at Wendy Haag as an example. She brought up the point about the reserve funds last year when all the cuts were being made, and now we've lost her in our building (the administration reassigned her). It's a sad truth, but the administration does have its way of getting back at us when we demonstrate individually.
I love my job, Commissioner. I feel like I've had two lives already, working first in the hard-working blue collar force, and now (as a late college graduate) in my awesome self-gratifying profession of teaching. I "get" the points being made from both directions. Please keep seeking out the answers to the good questions you are now asking. That's exactly the result we (the teaching force) are looking for.
Please include within your list of questions for the administration the following: 1) How does the board come up with a value for our health insurance premium each year? 2) How much suplus has resulted from that fund in each of the last five years? 3) What have they done with that money? Then, please remember, that "excellent benefit package" Dr. Evert referred to at the last board meeting is in part scored on the basis of the cost of that benefit package, from which they are keeping our surplus.

Dear 1234: I am not able to judge if something was "intentionally left out". Knowing the character of Dr. Behn, and again, we disagree a lot, it is my belief that it is more of a case of realizing (too late) how much work had to be done before July 1st when the position was supposed to have started. Obviously, knowing this ahead of time would not have influenced my vote on 4K as I was strongly opposed to the idea. Would it have swayed the votes of anyone who voted yes? I doubt it, but I am not a mind reader.

My vote to "abstain" was a difficult one. As I stated in another blog that has vanished, I could not vote "yes" but I understood that the program did need a coordinator, but I did not like the total cost involved, but to try and change the pay scales now etc. would have been impossible. You have every right to criticize me of my vote as I still don't know, in my own mind, if I did the right thing.

Finally, the JSD offer to JEA had a total package value of 3.55% (at the time it was offered). This includes "step" movement but does not include "lane" movement. "Lane" movement usually adds about .5% but you have to consider that the cost to get to a new lane (adding 6 credits) is paid for by the teacher, so it would be unfair to count all of the .5% towards the offer. As caddycshack correctly pointed out, teachers who are at the top end of the pay scale tend to come out on the short end (percentage wise) because they only get credit for experience for the first 16-17 years of teaching. They would get less than the 3.55% package while younger teachers would get more. As compared to other districts, our salary schedule looks better for newer teachers than it does for those who are at the top. I think that we should see if it can be adjusted, but it will not be easy!

caddy - I will try to get to the health care questions you asked later, as I also have a business to run. You did ask about the second year however which was proposed at 1% per cell (on top of the 4.7% for the first year.) Averaged together, and considering all of the health care changes, step movements etc., made the total package worth 3.55% when it was proposed. Do to some other insurance changes, the number has now been modified to a 3.49% total package.

Bill Sodemann

ALL: First of all I'd like to appologize for some of my negativity yesterday. I may have used a few words incorrectly (for which I was called out) out of frustration. In the end everyone in here is either for the teachers or against the teachers. You are either for the current administration or against them. I obviosly am for the teachers and think the administration could be changed up a bit. It just seems to me that all you tax paying citizens like myself that are complaining about the teachers insurance issues are missing a major point. The money is already in the bucket why not use it to help keep things the way they currently are? What harm does using that money to keep cost down do to the tax payers? I can't come up with one good reason they shouldn't use it. They have this huge amount but they won't use it to help end this battle. In turn they hire another administrator to the tune of 112K a year. caddyshack243 made this very same point and it seems legit. It seems everyone is more hung up with the "well that's just how it is everywhere so why should they be different" and that simply is not true. I have 100% coverage at the cost of $30 month and $20 dollar co-pays. If one looks hard enough there are companies out there that offer better plans. Several people in this thread have said over and over that just because your job doesn't give great benefits doesn't mean we can't give them great benefits. It just seems childish to have the attitude of "well if I can't have it, I don't want anyone to have it". Doesn't it bother anyone that we keep paying taxes and yet there is this huge surplus??? I believe this is from the administration ball parking for the insurance rather than having a private company deal with it. That is our money sitting there and apperently accumulating each year, give it to the teachers and end this.

OMG..I haven't seen this much B@%$*ing since GM went on strike! BTW I support the teachers on this one.

rocksolid: Sorry, one more: Curriculum coordinators in JSD typically oversee multiple subject areas. Why the urgency to hire a curriculum coordinator solely for the P4J? Could this P4J curriculum not be directed by the current curriculum coordinators? Thanks.

rocksolid: From our other postings, three questions: 1. Since it has been reported that the referendum is now over budget, why didn't the school board at least put the $500,000 towards the referendum? You stated that by law, it had to be spent. 2. What is the school board offering the JEA in salary and benefit compensation the second year of this contract? 3. If the "health assessment" and "wellness program" are so essential to the settling of the insurance impasse in this contract, then why do you not know what the "wellness program" entails? It is now January 2008, your contract was presented to JEA in April or May of 2007, hasn't the board had roughly one year to outline in detail what is expected of the JEA in order to reduce premiums by one-half? You stated the "health assessment" would take "less than one hour" to complete. Is all of this insurance fuss really worth "less than one hour"?

Mr. Sodeman, one more clarification, if Dr Evert's new deal is "similar" to the JEA offer or the District offer to JEA

To continue I know you abstained, but by not voting no did you give legitimacy to the "accidental omission" because you said that yes you didn't vote for it, but it needs somebody to run it, why was it not mentioned on Dec 10. To me this is a perfect example of half truths that have been coming from the SDJ.

That may be true Commissioner Sodeman, but what is your true feeling, if you can mention it, about this latest action with the "4K director" to the public that seems a little shady. I believe that some "truth's" were intentionally left out

As a school board member, I have done battle with Dr. Evert and others on a number of issues such as; the referendum (including the info flyer), 4K, movie use, etc. I must tell you however that our discussions have always been professional, he always listens, and comments never resort to personal attacks. I consider him to be of the highest integrity and I think he is an outstanding superintendent.

He did not get a 14% raise! His net package, including all of the insurance adjustments, was 3.7% (similar to what the JEA offer is). I believe that the 14% figure came from a website that received data under a different reporting method. The union sent out an email months ago chastising him for the large increase. After the truth was uncovered, the union has never made a correction or an apology for the mistake as is evident by some of the comments that have been posted. This is unfortunate.

If anyone would like to discuss this or any other issue, you may call me on my private line at 531-1883 or email me at bill@phonesplus-jvl.com.
Sincerely,
Bill Sodemann

Caddyshack is also correct about ARBITRATION in which case the arbitrator has to pick one side or the other after a hearing and filing of briefs. Before it even gets to that an impasse must be declared in mediation. But if the JEA is confident of their position, arbitration should also be a welcome option. Obviously what's going on now isn't working

Speaking from experience regarding mediation, having been involved in four or five personally as a member of a union bargaining committee, (but not in the education field) I whole heartedly endorse the process. When you sit down with a mediator everything is up for discussion. Each side is in a separate room and the mediator goes back and forth to try and "mediate" a "voluntary" settlement. I have to admit I was skeptical before my first one but I was pleasantly surprised that the process sometimes (not always) works. But it is certainly worth a try.
The "lengthy" part is petitioning the WERC and waiting for a mediator to be assigned. That has been done and Karen Mawhinney is a very competent mediator, again, from personal experience. I would urge both sides to put their animosity aside and at least set the date and give it a try. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain. Again this is only mediation NOT arbitration.

tjncj: In regard to mediation: I am not on the JEA bargaining committee, so I obviously cannot relay what is said in those sessions. For the past few contracts the JSD and JEA have tried to work things out together. I cannot remember what the buzz word for that was, “soft bargaining?” Maybe someone can help me out there. Much like “Let’s be friends and compromise in a friendly way.” In our union meetings I have heard negotiation meetings have been cancelled, proposals left unchanged, and compromise went out the window a long time ago. Obviously biased, but the JEA has conceded issues on their side, the JSD has not. Remember when Dave Parr was chastised for abruptly leaving a negotiation session? In essence Parr asked Dr. Evert for the JSD’s new proposal and Evert replied that they had none and wondered what the JEA was willing to concede. So Parr saw no reason to waste each other’s time and left. Of course I wasn’t there, but others who were there confirmed the story. I believe a mediator is in the works but it seems to be a lengthy process. The Gazette had an article on the mediator just a short time ago. IMHO, the JSD does not want to go to mediation where a “marriage counselor” tries to get us back together, and especially does not want arbitration where the arbitrator picks one side or the other. Why not? Because the JSD has offered a 1% salary adjustment in the second year of the contract. I believe the JSD would lose the arbitration case. IMHO of course. There have been no compromises from the JSD regarding their initial contract proposal. The JSD pretty much has taken a “take it or leave it” position.

Moco:

A lie is defined as a willful falsehood. Are you saying the administration "lied". Key term is willful. Again, another poor choice of word to describe the position of your advosary. Simply being mistaken is not a lie.

The union and district it seems are miles apart on the necessity for teachers to pay part of their annual insurance premiums. he union doesnt want to capitulate to this demand-I completely understand their position. I happen to disagree with the union position-but like everyone else, I have only one voice. If the result is that the teachers take home less-that is the result of this tough decision facing the union and district.

Children, children, it's time for recess.

Why don't all you unhappy people start ragging on jqpublic now??? He/She said the exact same thing that I did.

I already said corrupt not have been the right word but lying and deceiving isn't to far off.

Walk a day in a teachers shoes and you all might not be so bold as to say they have enough and need to pay more.

Why doesn't the JEA just get QEO'd? What does this mean for the teachers? Well they get 3.8% and the insurance stays the same. Sure that 3.8% is distributed into the benefits and insurance. However they will not get nailed for paying 10% which results in a pay decrease. I am amazed how people actually say they should just take their hit regarding insurance. Some things are worth fighting for! Just because many of you are paying a portion of your premium does not mean everyone should. Especially when the JSD has a surplus. Who in their right mind would actually agree to take a pay decrease and be happy about it? For everyone validating administrations tactics and salaries, my guess is you are in a position that also has the mind set to take money from the majority to pad the pockets of the minority. JEA stand up for your right to a fair contract! You deserve it!

Mocco:

You deserved to be slammed for using the word "corrupt." A difference of opinion is not corruption, it's a difference of opinion. The term corruption is a perjorative thrown at the administration because you do not have a cohesive argument to fortify your position. If the adminsitration is corrupt-prove it.

As for Evert and his comp package, he deserves what ever the board is willing to pay. Even if that means that the district cuts un needed teachers.

No one is asking what is the best choice for the district? Does Evert need to go, I dont know-I personally dont believe he makes a lot of money and on balance, the JSD seems to compare fairly well against other districts in WI. I know teachers dont earn a big salary-but their benefits (as are admin benes) are lavish compared to the private sector.

ON th other hand, was the 4 year old kindergarten handled poorly. Probably. Is this program require-doubtful. Should evert get cannd for this-that's for the board to determine-not bitter jealous union hacks who are pissed because Evert earns 2x or more per year. This is the issue-envy and jealousy.

If the union really was arguing from a position of strength, the general public would be behind the teachers-it seems to me the public considers the tactics by a minority of teachers to be childish.

Most businesses that offer health insurance require their employees to contribute to the cost of the premiums. This is not a radical concept. The union might be willing to "die on the hill" for this measure and a mediator might be required. Who knows. I think its a losing proposition for the union. I could be wrong.

If I read that right sluggo, does that mean you are not behind your bargaining committee? or you don't think their position is strong enough to convince the majority of the teachers they represent of what they are trying to do?
That a mediation session might actually put them in a position where they would actually have to seriously consider COMPROMISE?

moco- You stated "It is all more out of frustration that everyone in here want's to be equal with everyone else. That is not ever going to happen." The impression that is coming across on some of these posts is teachers wanting to have comparable salaries to their counter parts in the private sector, but not have the comparable benefits (ie paying premiums for health insurance, pay based on performance, etc.) A true comparison would take into account all factors of a profession, not just the desirable but also the undesirable. I think people have to also realize that whether we like it or not, the School District is a business and has to deal with the same issues that any business in todays world has to deal with.

Imeant employees.

I believe its because if they have a mediator they would actually have to do right by the teachers. It is much easier for them to speak behind closed doors and pretend they are speaking for ALL the employers of the district. By the way I promised my spouse that I would let you guys know when Im speaking. This is the me.

Spunky: At least we are on the same page. I just got slammed for using the word "corrupt".

Corruption: we get a x% package increase, but y% of that goes to the insurance cash cow. Such a cash cow that they stopped paying into it on a few "health care holidays" because there was such a surplus (this is without mentioning the $1.7 mil surplus that they admitted to). They use the healthcare against us for salary increases then pocket the extra change when their healthcare estimates were rediculously inflated. We need a normal, private insurance carrier so everyone knows the numbers and these silly estimates can't be used against us. What about the extra $56k they snuck in late for the 4k coordinator, what about the pay raises that, yes the board, gives to the top-heavy administration?

TCB...corrupt may have been the wrong choice of words. I don't know what you would call telling the board that the new 4K position would cost ~60K and then slide it in for a cool 112K. What is the word for that, maybe not corrupt but it is not right. You are right he did not give himself the raise the board did. At the same time teachers were getting cut he gets a huge raise. Do you think that is right?

ihavealife...I was just responding to your comment about me being negative. It is all more out of frustration that everyone in here want's to be equal with everyone else. That is not ever going to happen. The contract needs to be settled now and they need the communities support not bickering about how "they chose their profession" and "we all should pay premiums so that it is fair for all".

Moco:

Corruption charges? Really. Can you site any example of corruption per your statement "They really arent asking for much, only to be treated fairly by a corrupt adminisration. Where was all of this when Evert gave himself a 14% raise"

Also, I could be wrong, but I dont believe Evert gives himself a raise. I think he is accountable to a democratically elected Janesville School Board. I could be wrong. If it is Evert that chooses his salary, his increase and his benefits, he sure did aim very low (144K) considering he runs a business with 1500 FTEs.

But you state there is corruption, I thhink the public needs to know about this corruption....please show us proof

Sluggo, MOCO, Caddyshack, can anyone comment on the question of why the JEA won't meet with the Mediator?

You are convincing me with your case but this is a sticking point for many.

I think it is a valid question and routinely ignored.

rocket: They really arent asking for much, only to be treated fairly by a corrupt adminisration. Where was all of this when Evert gave himself a 14% raise? They will be losing money next year. Again just because you and a few others out there have not been as fortunate does not mean everyone needs to share in your misery.

ihavealife: If you are a parent then you of all people should want the best for your child. In life we get what we pay for. If you choose to keep fighting the teachers and the good ones end up leaving or worse stop caring, then see how you feel when your child doesn't get the education he/she deserves. In the end how much does a $100K home pay in property taxes in Janesville. I believe mine are about $2800 for a 1200sq/ft ranch on the East side. What does the school get 800 or so??? I really don't know. That seems like a very small price to pay for the advancement of our society.

ihavealife.....Yes. I have made a few remarks towards people that just don't seem to understand the situation. I was simply stating the just because a person is unhappy and getting screwed with their benefits does not mean everyone else needs to be unhappy and getting screwed. Two entirely different things.

rocket...Maybe you should listen to some of the other "unhappy" people here when they tell the teachers "if you don't like it leave, get another job". It sounds like you have't received a raise and pay high premiums for your insurance. Well you can also find another job if you don't like what you have. Don't you people see that everyone's job is a bit different. Each person gets different benefits, some are better than others. Just because there are crappy benefits being paid by some companies does not mean that all have to be that way. My company sure doesn't operate like that! The health care system does need reform but there are many other reasons your insurance is higher than just this.

first of all....Mikki, Idont care about your education. Attack me if you want but..... if you are worried about people attacking you for commenting while you are working, then dont. I think that maybe you might be hiding something. iF YOU ARE A TEACHER YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF. You sit there and comment as if if you are better than all these people. When you know damn well that this communities teachers deserve more than what they are getting. Lets not forget that they went a couple of years without a raise and when it was brought to the district they convieniently didnt know what the teachers were talking about. Or where the money was. Correct me if im wrong. All of the neggative opinions are comming from you people who are brainwashed by the Gazzette. THANKS TO ALL OF THOSE WHO HAVE THERE OWN OPINION

I see both sides of the arguments and there is some merit to each. But I just have one question to the teachers. Why the reluctance to sit down with a MEDIATOR?

To ALL of the NEGATIVE PEOPLE:
Just because you have crappy insurance does not mean everyone has to!!!!!!!!! Do not begrudge them for fighting for what the believe in. If you all want to roll over and take it then go ahead!

They are in the public so everyone gets to hear about their complaints. Most of us in here work in the private sector so even when we do B@#$% no one hears us but that doesn't make what our employers is doing right!

WE DON'T ALL HAVE TO BE UNHAPPY!!!

Sluggo, my education and job is really none of your business. Why? Because then I'd hear all about how I was on-line 'during business hours', or something just as ignorant.

I am all for quality teachers, but healthcare costs are skyrocketing. I take what I can get at this point, and am happy to even have a job.

I like what I do, but I can find this sort of job anywhere, and perhaps in an area where the benefits are better.

There are politics in all businesses and organizations. Many people have to work outside of working hours and not get paid. That's called dedication. As I said, if you don't like the job, don't do it. You know what it takes.

Leaderofthepack:
You missed the whole point. They are more than happy with the increase for this year. It is next year that all them will actually be getting a decrease in pay because of the insurance. Their point is that there is a surplus in the contingency fund that they pay their premiums into, which by the way means you are paying into a surplus! All they want is to keep the current healthcare by using a bit of the surplus. I hope I have that all correct. As others have said in here before "just because you have crappy insurance does not mean that everyone has to". I work in the private sector and I pay $16.00 a month for 100% coverage and only $20 dollar co-pays on doctor visits. I don't have a deductable except for a hospital stay and even that is only $500. So to all of you out there that think it is the norm to pay excessive amounts for your insurance you are incorrect. It is just the unhappy people who wish to voice their displeasure in their own insurance. You all seem to have the attitude of "if I can't have it then niether should they". What a load of crap, how do you people live with yourselves. Also they don't have any other way to reach the public on this scale. If one teacher was to write a letter to the gazette only a handful of people would take the time to read it. But if the story had a bunch of negative press surrounding it then everyone reads it. I keep hearing all of this "quit complaining and accept it" and "you knew what you were getting into" crap and it sickens me. These people shape our world and yet very few people are willing to pay for it. Maybe we should make get rid of schools an force everyone to home school their children. See what happens to the economy then. You all would have been glad to pay them what they wanted then!

Attention teachers: Acting like school kids to get your way is no way to impress your bosses (the tax paying public). There aren't many people in Janesville that wouldn't love to switch salary and compensation with you. And don't kid yourself, everyone's job is difficult and we all have to put up with many problems. So the "Let's change jobs is a crock" The tax payers get the same thing each time a contract comes up. "We(teachers) would love to change positions with you!" Well I don't see a mass exodus from the teaching field. Or, the old party line of "We do many of our jobs during unpaid hours!" I'm sorry I thought you were on salary, not hourly employees. Just like every other person in the world that is salaried, we work when we have to. Quit acting like working outside of the 7:30 - 4:00 timespan borders on slave labor brought on by the school district. Please, give that a rest. The thing is if we want a raise we don't lay on the floor and throw a tantrum, we work harder.

Secondly, Try to actually pay for your insurance at a rate of $200.00 per month, and then have to co-pay when you go to the doctor, that is after you have reached your deductible that is another $1000+ per person and then we get to pay 80% of the bill as well. And that doesn't include going eye doctor. Yup, we in the private sector have to pay for those things. Also, how about you start paying your own insurance costs when you retire? Believe it or not, that's what it's like in the real world. Most everyone I speak with regarding your issues would love to see what you would do if you had to pay for some of these luxuries yourself. And that is exactly what they are, luxuries. Those same people agree that if you acted like professionals, we would like to pay you like professionals. What you do is a thankless job, and one that is done with great conviction, so do your selves a favor and come up with some new schemes when trying to convince your bosses that your deserve not just a raise, but the right to keep your perks that you already are enjoying.

I come from a very hard working family. My dad retired from a factory position a few years ago earning less than I earn today. I, myself, am a late bloomer in terms of my college education. I've worked hard in the service industry during the early years of my children's lives while putting myself through college. Having dreamed of being a teacher since my early years, I'm now living my dream. I'm not underpaid, and I'm not overpaid. My hours are unbelievably wonderful, and I have the perk of having almost the identical schedule as my children. At this point in my life, I GET to go to work each day. I GET to continue my education and am rewarded on my pay scale for doing so. It is a lot of money to come up with, but that's okay. I expect it as part of my requirements, and I plan for it. I receive emotional gratification for the work I do. I'm making a difference in my students' lives. Do I agree with the principle behind the teachers' picketing? Yes. Why? Because the tax-paying public needs to have their attention drawn to the poor spending tactics of the administration in this district. I believe the teachers have a right to be upset about how they've had their resources taken away while watching the same debt-crying administration spend like crazy around them. The unreasonable quality of the current negotiations are simply outrageous. Please listen to what we're all saying. Unfortunately, this is a no win situation, because in the end (and I blame the administration for this) you all will be less willing to trust and support district spending and future requests for support.

Blackirish- While a 4-year contract is a good goal, state law limits the contract to 2 years.

To others: The old "They get June/July/August off so it is only a 9 month salary" argument is the first sign of an ignorant arguement. It is pretty obvious to anyone involved that while the contract only covers 8 hours per day for 190 days, the job entails literally hundreds of hours outside that contracted time...usually in excess of the number of hours per year that other salaried professionals work.

Do you consder the person working 4-10 hour days only an 80% employee? Should they receive only 80% of a full-time salary? Of course not. - but they have 52 days off per year that the 5 day per week worker does not. Teachers do essentially the same thing but take all their days in one chunk.

Most teachers work 10-12 hour days during the week and at least a part day on the weekend. They have to prepare lessons, grade papers, record grades, call parents, meet with students, and do any number of other things that can't be accomplished in "contracted" hours. If you doubt it, I'm sure there are plenty of teachers who would gladly trade with you for a week.

i have said this many times before, but as parents we need to support the educators of our children, as parents we need to support every thing that the teachers want/need!! if we dont, who is going to educate our FUTURE, i have 2 daughters in JSD and absolutely adore both of my daughters' teachers!! as a taxpayer I would rather see my tax dollars go to a teacher, than some of the other things they go for!! I work, my husband works..... parents want to talk so bad about teachers but the fact is without them who is going to teach them! I will say that i could not be a teacher, not with the way the system works!! keep doing what you are doing teachers, i will support you, even if that just helps a little bit!!!

Everyone in the company I work for has the exact same insurance benefit whether you graduated with a masters or dropped out in 6th grade.

Degrees usually matter in what company you work for, what position you are offered, and what benefits you are offered. I was just wondering if Mikki is comparing apples to oranges. A friend of mine has a similar insurance plan-no college degree though.

as with your job that you had BI the health care is also part of the "package". They are just nubmers the same as others who have been laid off recentley due to greed driven bast!@#$

sluggo- How many degrees a person has has nothing to do with the type of health insurance a company offers.

Mikki- how many college degrees do you have with an insurance plan like that? Most teachers have a master's degree plus credits.

Yes teachers health insurance is self-funded. Does self funded mean that they pay their premiums? I guess it could. Yes the % increase is for salary and benefits.

Maybe those of you complaining about your premiums should unionize.
Also, it is a cost of living raise - nobody is getting rich here - the money will go back into the economy - property taxes, gas, food, electricity... It's not that much money really.

Hold on. "teachers pay no premiums" I thought teachers DID pay their benefits as part of the salary package.
People keep throwing out numbers, but a 4.7% increase does not go into pockets, a big part of that goes into benefits.

CandleLover: Where does it say that the teachers health cost are going up. They are self funded. They have had a surplus 8 out of the last 10 years. A surplus means they have extra money! I would understand your argument if the teachers were causing the JSD to be in the red. However this is not the case. Also just because you pay 2500 dollars a year does not mean that the teachers should have to. If your company had a surplus of money at the end of the year, would they propose the next that you should pay more to create an even larger surplus? I highly doubt it!

I think the teachers (and other members of other unions) need to wake up about health insurance premiums. It is great that they have paid no premiums for so longer but it is time to get with this century. With escalating health costs in recent years, it doesn't seem right for the teachers to expect to receive health insurance for free as was done 40 years ago. I pay about $2,500 a year in an insurance premiums for my family plan and I have "good" health care coverage. I should also point out that my cost is about 20% of the total insurance premium. My employer contributes about $10,000 annually. I still have deductibles and some co-pays until I reach a certain amount but consider that to be the norm.

My comments are not a reflection of the value I place on the Janesville teachers who have educated my 2 children. I have the utmost respect for our teachers. Not only do they educate our children but also influence their development in many ways other than just academically. I know they put in countless hours and are often times unappreciated (by both students and parents). I think we not only have great teachers but also caring and competent support staff in our schools. I hope this is all resolved soon so our teachers can concentrate on educating our children.

moco- Just because someone does not think like you or agree with you doesn't mean that they fell through the cracks of the educational system. It is unfortunate that these types of forums do not open up minds of both teachers and non-teachers alike. It is amazing what you can learn, and maybe teachers might realize that the grass on the other side of the fence isn't as green as they thought it was.

Nina:
That sounds about right. I think that carries on throughout life everywhere we go. If I do well my boss gets credit but if I do poorly then it's my fault. Funny how that all works!

benthinking: actually, the old saying is something along the lines that if a child succeeds in school, the student gets the credit for the hard work and intelligence; if a student fails, the teacher (or parent) didn't work hard enough for the child.

Concerned:
You are right. I don't think it is that they want more, they just want to keep what they have w/out having to pay more. If there was not a surplus I doubt they would be doing this.
The administraion appears to be extremely distrustful. They cut jobs and programs and now are bringing in another administrator for the 4K program. Don't get me wrong the 4K program is really great and my wife and I have been waiting for it. I just don't think we needed to allocate a position that pays out that much. Maybe if they were up front about the 112K rather than the ~60K that was originally brought up it would be a different story.

Rocket21,
The SUV's belong to the teachers that married their college boyfriends who graduated with similar degrees and are now earning a corporate income.

I just can't buy into the higher pay brings quality teachers. If higher pay brings a different set of applicants then the higher pay brought people who are seeking higher pay, not necessarily better quality.

Within the current system there are pay increases based on continuing education and length of service. That already addresses somewhat the pay for quality arguement.

This is a complicated issue, however, I notice that if a student, or group of students does well than it is pat the teacher on the back. If the student or group does poorly, it is the parents fault, the buildings fault, the lack of tax base, drugs, etc. Is this not a little one-sided?

Mikki, Let's just say, hypothetically:
Your company is self-insured, and each year in the past five years they've had millions in surplus money from your insurance fund.
Last year they told you that they were having trouble staying out of the red, and they cut several positions around you and asked you to do the same work you were doing before, picking up the slack of those now missing.
While they've cut positions around you, they keep finding money for those pet projects they prefer to invest in, so now they've managed to open a new factory in Milton. (It's good for the future of your company, they tell you.)
Now your superiors come to you and tell you they are going to have to start charging you more for your insurance. (They know it's a good ticket, because health care is in crisis in this country and it will be a difficult thing for you to argue.)
You know that your insurance fund has been in great abundance, and you're disgrunted and distrusting. It's not at all fair. This is your career though. To start over now isn't a real option. You have a family, and have vested your education and your life into your area of expertise with this company.
Should you just shut up and agree, and be thankful you have a job that you love? Even if that's what happens in the end, wouldn't you want people to know how unfairly you are being treated (especially if those people are the source of your income and are trusting your superiors to be allocating your money well)?

Mikki, that's the sort of comment that makes me just want to jump on the teachers' bandwagon to defend them regardless of the argument. I do, after all, want quality teachers attracted to the district that teaches my children. I think we have to listen to what their current argument is. Outside of some posts defending the general "teachers are underpaid" argument, I think what they are really trying to say is that they are currently being treated quite unfairly with the offer on the table. I have to agree, from the supporting information I'm gathering.

Rocket21, I absolutely agree. I think most teachers, if they were honest, would agree that they have a highly desirable work schedule. I understand about all the extra hours, and I believe it too, but come on... really... it's not so bad. Nonetheless, I've retained the belief that they are to be valued. It only makes sense to me that having a better salary schedule than other districts will provide us with the better teachers in the area. Common sense. The thing I'm sort of stuck on is my increasing distrust of the administration. I really think the teachers must be fighting some true unfairness. My gut tells me they wouldn't be acting out the way they are if it were just a matter of whining about wanting more.

Well, where I work our insurance pays 70%. That's after we have a $1500 family deductible. Doctor visits have a copayment on top of that.
However, I am happy I have my job, and I enjoy it.
If you don't enjoy your job, or your benefits, than don't complain, find another career.

I'm starting to believe that the administration is being deliberately sly. We are all experiencing increased health care costs. It's a big issue, and easy for all of us to say that it's the teachers turn to do the same. Do you think the administration perhaps attacked that area of the teachers' salaries on purpose, knowing we would probably support the idea? Personally, I'm skeptical. I hear what the teachers are saying, and it really does not make any sense for them to pay into a fund that has been in abundant surplus. I've heard not one comment discounting the surplus argument.

MikeF, thanks for the explanation. I appreciate it.

I meant MOC0... sorry 'bout that....

MOCA et.al.,

Do not stoop to the level of BI by reponding to his remarks. If you look at his posting history 90%+ of them are either inflammatory, off topic, rude, misinformed, ignorant- you pick. By responding, you validate his postings, and satisfy his thrill of getting a rise out of someone. If no one responds, he'll go away. No one likes to be ignored.

TCB- great post at 12:10. Many people don't understand how politics and elections work. A very timely post, and a good reminder that although many people view the US as a democratic entity, it is really more of a republic.

I don't pay premiums or co-pays at all, with the exception of dental and vision. If my company took that away from me, I'd be pretty ticked too. Only problem is we're not a union, so I would just have to deal with it.

Blackirish:
I have to say that you are by far the most ignorant one in the bunch. Just because you are unhappy does not mean everyone has to be. Learn the fact about what they are asking for before you come in here and making rediculously stupid statements. If you can read you should be able to see explanation of this earlier on this blog.

Garyprimer:
Per their contract teachers are not allowed to strike! Don't be a fool. You and Irish are the reasons we even have these foolish debates. You two obvously fell throught the cracks of the school sytem. Write intelligently or not at all.

TCB- Yes, I oversimplified the process of presidential election by leaving out the electoral college. I just didn't want to get into that particular complicating detail. Thank you for explaining it though. With elections coming this year, some people still need to be reminded how the process really works.
In my earlier example, substitute state governor instead of president.

MikeF

Beat me to the punch regarding quorum procedural rule.

However, note if you refer to US Presidental election, the winner is the candidate with the most Electoral College votes. The Electoral College is a constant reminder of that, intended to apportion votes in such a way as to protect the interests of less-populous states. We do not now have nor have we ever had a national popular vote for president. We have 51 separate elections in each of the states and the District of Columbia to determine how those Electoral College votes will be cast. It's only for purposes of curiosity, devoid of legal standing, that we tally those 51 election results to produce a national total.

If the nation elected presidents strictly through a direct popular vote, why would a serious candidate waste time and resources in Wisconsin to pick up a few thousand-vote differential when 25 million votes are at stake in New York and California? Without the Electoral College, presidential politics would move sharply to the left as candidates pandered to the political appetites of large liberal voting blocs in the Northeast and California. Perhaps that's why its elimination has been a recurring liberal cause.

The Founders - who abhorred the excesses and tyranny of pure democracies - designed our system as a constitutional republic, with a Bill of Rights to protect individuals from the tyranny of the majority, along with representative government, federalism, the separation of powers, checks and balances, judicial review and the presidential veto to name a few anti-democratic safeguards.

Jimmy Hoffa must be rolling over somewhere. You don't picket a workplace and then go to work. You picket all day long and stop anyone from crossing the line by reasoning, intimidation, threats, or force. You look like a bunch of kids playing a game. You must have passed up taking Labor Organization 101. Break out the ax handles and let them know you mean business!

concerned- Parliamentary procedure requires a quorum to be present to conduct business. Unless otherwise stated, this is usually half+1. Since there are 9 members on the board, 5 must be present to conduct business. With 7 present, a quorum was reached. Now with 7 present, a majority is 4 votes, so it looks like parliamentary rules were met and the vote is stands with 4 yes votes.
A similar scenario is with the presidential elections. If only 54% of eligible voters vote, and 51% of those vote for the winner, that means that only about 27% of the eligible voters actually voted for the person, but that person is still the winner.

TCB - FICA is taxed both on the employee (the teacher) and the employer (the district) - each paying matching 7.65% contributions. So if I make $100, I pay $7.65 to FICA and my employer also pays $7.65. My employer paid me $100, but his cost was $107.65. All Wisconsin teachers are participants. Illinois teachers are not. I'm not really sure how that works, but I know that they aren't going to be eligilbe for SS benefits upon retirment if they don't contribute.

As far as the teacher contribution to the health care premium - that is information I don't have. Sorry. But my friend puts it this way: "I pay my entire premium. Every dollar that goes to premiums is a dollar that is not paid to me in salary. I choose, for tax purposes, to have the district take the dollars as a benefit instead of salary, but the contribution is still 100% out of my pocket, in the end."

Re today's issue: If four voted for funding the surprise cost, two voted against, one abstained, and two were absent, did the majority really approve it? How did it pass? I'm not even sure how I feel. I think we have to support the program (though I didn't think the program itself should have even been approved with all the cuts in the district). It seems like a pretty sneaky move on the part of the administration.

Rocky:

Thanks for the response. However, FICA is a tax-social security and medicare (7.65%), teachers (or anyone else-for that matter) do not receive income it is taken away..are you saying the district pays this tax? Nationally,I know in some school districts teachers do not pay social security taxes and thus are not eligible to receive social security when they reach retirement age--which is one reason the union politically is against social security reform-but thats another topic.

If the health benefits cost 22k per year what do teachers (married family of 4-for argument sake) contribute to the cost of the annual premiums? If so what does it cost?

Thanks

TCB

etown you havnt a clue. Unfortunatley the "public" goes with however this rag of a newspaper sways them. If the gazzette decided to print an article that sounded as if they support the teachers the "public" would be out there with them in the morning. The "public" would be pushing for better wages and benifits for the teachers.So get opinions of your own. Ask a TEACHER whats going on instead of relying on the Gazzette.

TCB - Sorry for the slow reply - had to work last night - then had to research for an accurate answer.

Of the $90k, $22k was the cost of health/dental/life and other such benefits. The $58k included the salary for all the extra-curricular assignments. The other 10K was things like FICA and WRS (retirment - paid to all state employees, teachers and protetive service workers in Wisconsin). Since those last two are based on a percentage of the salary, the higher salary results in higher overall costs for the district.

But let's use this 90K as a benchmark. Right now the district only pais the WRS and FICA on the salary portion (58k). If they make teachers contribute toward premium from salary instead of counting it as a benefit - say to the tune of $1500/year - the salary portion jumps to $59,500 and the insurance drops to $20,500 (by law the comensation is package - so any increase in one must result in a decrease in the other.)

The district, however, now has to pay FICA and WRS on the extra $1500 (total about 17%) or about $258, so the cost to the district INCREASES by that amount. Now, since the district cost increased and the package must be cost neutral, they must decrease the teacher salary by that $250 (rounded). The teacher is also out the FICA ($75) on the extra - leaving the net to the teacher reduced by around $325 - a net pay decrease.

Why would they choose this option? The district saves nothing and the teachers wind up w ith less money in their pockets. Other than for political posturing, what good does this do?

Data on administrator and teacher salaries and benefits, for those who want to investigate further, can be found at http://dpi.wi.gov/lbstat/newasr.html
Frank Schultz, Gazette reporter

I want to personally apologize to any teacher that I may have offended in my previous posts. I just read the article on the whole 4k thing and about puked in my mouth!! Your leadership at that school is absolutly insane with the taxpayers money. Know I still think there are a few of your union heads that are crazies but I guess know I can see a little bit why they may be that way. The people running the show are nuts!!

This does not help support teachers. I have contacted my children's friends, and they don't support the teachers either... I think we are all tired of the actions of some of these teachers. A note to teachers, you will have to work real hard to get my support again, or the support of my friends...

they said they wanted to get the public support by picketing, they wanted to make the news, evidently they are really not that interested in the publics opinion unless its the same as theirs

John Maglio is a great man. I had him as a drawing teacher at Parker freshmen year. This guy is very active in the community and knows what he's talking about. I don't care what anyone says about the teacher's actions and how they "won't stand for it", but I don't think anyone has the right to bash teachers as people, especially John Maglio. I must say, I certainly didn't see the public being this negative towards teachers when all they want is equal/better pay, because they are the lowest paid in the state, as I stated in the article "Were Teachers Really Ill?". People can say "oh teachers don't deserve this and that", but people cannot say that teachers are not doing their job, or not thinking of the kids, because that IS their job, and as a student, I can say they do that on a daily basis. So unless you are a student, who sits in their classes everyday, I don't see how you would know this. And by the way, asking your kids about it more often than not, is not 100% accurate, because half of them are busy texting etc. during class anyways. More power to ya Maglio, you're missed up at Parker.

Homework: I've been checking state teacher salaries and benefits to see how we compare statewide. I compared fringe benefits and our teachers are ranked 67th out of 427 districts in Wisconsin. When I checked salaries, they didn't seem so bad, but not great. Our teachers average salary is in the middle of the pack at 238th out of the same 427. The only thing is that the salary data can be skewed according to the average years of experience of our teachers. I checked the low and high income comparisons then too to see how that compared, and they were still in the middle. We can gather from the data that our teachers are being paid at a fair (middle ground) rate in comparison. I'm gathering that their arguments are somewhat valid in reference to their insurance. Why are they so low on the scale compared to the rest when it comes to their benefits? I'd like to see them higher on the chart. Does this mean that they are receiving less benefits compared to the rest of the state, and still they are managing large surpluses? Answers please, teachers? (Or administrators?)

Alas, those damn unions... once fighting for decent wages, working conditions, and the 40 hr work week. They can do more than just keep the deadbeats on board. As we take this down the path of union bashing, let us remember how more often than not one income could raise a family, benefits were getting better, and the working middle class as a whole was getting better off instead of worse off. What dinosaurs those teachers are for trying to keep the 20th century idea alive.

I am one of the private school teachers spoken of in an earlier post. I understand that yes as a teacher I have my summers and holidays off, and I know it is my choice to work the extra hours that I put in. As a first year teacher I have probably put in an extra 30-40 hours a week in the first semester as a teacher. Yes this was my decision, and yes I am going to continue. I find the words submitted earlier that the public school teachers should just "shut up and do your job" like the private school teachers insulting. As teachers we are doing this job because we love it, and for the most part a little appreciation is all we need. Do I continually look for a job where I can find higher pay and better benefit options - of course I am young and need to think about my future. If I was offered a similar contract that I currently have in a public school would I take it - no. Their is a difference between public and private schools. Where the funding comes from. The public school has alot more options for funding.

Well said slainte; although I believe that "union member" and "professional" are not mutually exclusive.

The bottom line is this.... teachers need to decide if they would like to be treated as union members or as professionals. The more that the educators in this community picket and complain, the more that members of the Janesville community will resist offering them the respect due to true professionals. Unfortunately, educators in this community and this state have begun to view themselves as elitists due pay and benefits far richer than those afforded to most college educated people. I would like to see the Gazette publish a survey/story on the average wages/hours/benefits of Janesville based college educated individuals in various careers- business, social services, clergy, engineering. I believe that educators have a VERY skewed perception of what educated workers in the private sector earn and receive in the form of benefits. Perhaps such a story would open some eyes! Teachers- I appreciate your work, and I realize that it is hard. However, I feel that my work is just as important and it certainly is a challenge daily. Please keep my words in mind as I feel that I speak for many educated, middle class taxpayers in Janesville.
A note to the bloggers who do not deem it necessary to spell correctly, punctuate or capitalize... I do not think that many teachers will take your views very seriously when your writing suggests such a lack of care. If it is worth blogging about, it is worth doing it correctly.

Once again the JSD or board can manipulate information to the public. Who
in their right mind actually believes teachers want to create conflict? Teachers are generally compassionate, level headed individuals who are willing to do anything for students. These teachers are being inconvenienced for having to work the contract. 7:45-3:45, they want to be in their classroom preparing for the day. They want to stay after to help a student so they can succeed. If teachers are offered something within reason. Believe me they will take it! Cost of living, and keeping insurance the same. It is not like they are asking for the school district to foot the entire bill. They simply want to keep it the same. If it is not broken why try to fix it? Other districts pay 7-10% of their health insurance with 0% deductibles. The JSD want them to pay 10% and 80/20. How many elementary schools do you see performing job actions? How about these teachers begin picketing, sickouts. Do you want to see a total community uproar?

thecourtjester , gm the post office ,state workers all had their health insurance raised with no adjustment to it in their incomes, some even took hits on their salaries too

concerned. My point is, if they are really serious about a settlement then why are they stalling to set a date with a mediator? I would think they would welcome that opportunity with open arms;

In response to the comment that the JEA is not serious about a settlement, that seems a bit silly. Why would they not want a settlement? From what I'm hearing and reading, the problem appears to be that their insurance fund is experiencing large surplus balances each year, and now the district is asking them to pay. That does seem unfair (if what I'm reading is true). How can we find out about that surplus and what is really going on with that money? Why did we read about all the cuts last year only to hear about all these new programs being implemented this year? I have one last comment about the teachers' actions in drawing our attention toward them. Many of you have ridiculed such actions, but would they have gotten my attention without some sort of radical behavior like picketing on the sidewalk where I dropped my daughter off this morning? I doubt it. I think they are probably going about it as best they can. Just my opinion. I'll be watching and reading intently. School board: we voted for you. Please keep open ears and an open mind. Mr. Sodemann, you've sounded in this forum like you've already sided with the administration, but you didn't know what the second year percentage increase was, and it was stated in here later to be at only 1%. Please get all the facts before taking sides. I want the best teachers for my children. And please don't attack young high schoolers for their defense of their teachers. I thought the young person was quite articulate, given his or her age, and the Hamlet reference was a bit unnecessary.

Thanks Caddyshack for the numbers. There is no doubt the funding is messed up, but the system itself is messed up as well.
The fact of the matter is that our public school system is failing. 2005 testing results show that 25% of 12th graders tested proficient in math and 35% in reading. The No Child Left Behind program has shown little to no results. We are consistantly testing lower than other industrialized nations and haven fallen consistantly in the rankings the past thirty years. The current system is broken and until something changes it will continue to deteriorate.
The majority of teachers are great at what they do and should be willing to be rated and paid on a merit system but as long as the unions and NEA (National Education Association) thrive this will never come to be.

Your comments and observations are well taken caddyshack. However, most citizens / taxpayers have a difficult time interpreting the numbers, facts and figures quite often quoted by both sides. In a different light, I think most citizens would welcome a mediator to the table to attempt to find the middle ground. I think one of the things that is turning the taxpayer off is the run around, and yes it is a run around, that JEA is coming up with for not being able to meet with an arbitrator. I have been involved in labor negotiations and when my livlihood was involved I and the entire bargaining board did not hesitate to re-arrange our schedules and vacations to meet in an attempt to settle the dispute. This appears to be totally lacking on the part of the JEA.
The merits of each side not withstanding, this in itself has told a lot of people that the JEA is not really serious about a settlement.

caddyshack - Be sure to thank the teacher who taught you how to use swear words in a well constructed paragraph. To be treated as a professional, you need to act like one.

3. Here is another example of who can manipulate numbers best. In Mr. Sodemann’s example he is showing someone who has earned 6 credits and 1 year of experience. This only makes sense if you see the salary grid for the JEA. Teachers earn a “raise” for each 6 credit step and year of experience. In many cases, a teacher will only earn one step for a year of experience. In my case, I have a Master’s Degree and well over 30 additional credits. I can no longer earn a raise for additional credits, yet I must take 6 credits every 5 years to renew my license. At the current going rate for college, as many know, 6 credits will soon cost one year’s “raise.” In my case, as opposed to Mr. Sodemann’s, I will come nowhere near to the 7.4% increase he suggests. Now, if I were a rookie, and I pounded out 18 credits in one year, I could probably be well above the 7.4% increase Mr. Sodemann suggests.

4. If you’ve got even more time to read, try this: http://www.dpi.wisconsin.gov/lbstat/xls/...... Compare max salary of a teacher in Janesville ($61000) to a rookie assistant principle or principle in Janesville.

5. Finally caddyshack is about ready to disappear (thank God, right?) One thought I would like to leave with the citizens of Janesville: You are all very impassioned about school taxes, cost of education, the whiney teachers you have here, etc, etc, etc. WHY THE HELL ARE YOU NOT IMPASSIONED THAT OUR STATE AND FEDERAL GOVERNMENT FAILS TO ADEQUATELY FUND THE ENTIRE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM IN OUR COUNTRY? WHY DON’T YOU RAISE YOUR VOICES THAT YOUR SCHOOL SYSTEM IN JANESVILLE ALONE WILL BE UNDER FUNDED BY $6 MILLION FROM 2006-2009? WHY ARE YOU NOT LIVID THAT THE JANESVILLE SCHOOL DISTRICT HAS HAD TO CUT STAFF AND PROGRAMS WHICH DIRECTLY BENEFIT YOUR CHILDREN AND THE QUALITY OF THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM IN JANESVILLE? WHY IS IT THAT THE ONLY TIME JANESVILLE COMPLAINS IS WHEN THE DAMN TEACHERS WANT ANOTHER RAISE? Ok, I’m off into the sunset………………….

2. Here we go with statistics, and who can manipulate them the best. Here’s my effort: Yes, the JSD is offering 4.7% salary increase for 2007-2008. I believe the JEA would accept that in a heartbeat. That is an outstanding offer, and it looks outstanding to the JEA, and looks like way too much to the average taxpayer of Janesville. Now come the statistical part, the part where we manipulate the numbers: Take 4.7% of $61000 (the max salary for a Master’s Degree, 30+ additional credits, and 16+ years in JSD) and you get $2867. I would vote for that. However, now let us subtract the insurance premium of $1560 and we get $1307 for the net salary increase of 2.14%. If we take Mr. Sodemann’s $780 insurance premium with the “Wellness Program”, then the net salary increase is 3.4% which is still under Cost Of Living Adjustment. The JSD has given little information what exactly the Wellness Program is and what it entails. Now, this offer is only for the current year. Mr. Sodemann has yet to answer what the JSD offer is for the year 2008-2009. For 2008-2009 the JSD has offered a 1% salary increase and the JEA continues to pay insurance premiums to the already over-funded insurance account. The 1% salary increase in 2008-2009 in most cases will not cover the cost of the insurance premiums. And remember that the JSD budgets an arbitrary amount for insurance, always has, and could certainly budget yet more, which would reduce further the money available for salaries. And the year where the insurance account was over spent the JEA salary schedule was frozen, resulting in no raise that contract year.

Here comes some long reading from the dialog with Sodemann, but it is a very complicated issue. It will take a few posts but I hope you stay till the exciting climax. 1. Here’s the insurance story: The original offer from JSD to the JEA required each JEA member to pay $130 per month, $1560 per year, towards our health insurance. If a JEA member participates in a “Wellness Program” the premium is dropped to $65 per month, $780 per year. The issues here are several, and are scattered throughout many postings. First, the JSD budgets “X” amount of insurance $$ off the top of the salary and benefit package, and what is left becomes the actual dollar increase on the paycheck. The JSD can, and usually does, budget an arbitrary amount based on estimates. Much like a household budgets for groceries. Well, the JSD traditionally over budgets, and insurance claims have been under budget. So, the JSD is keeping the extra money and saving it in their contingency fund to be spent where they wish. This has happened 8 of the last 10 years, and last year alone the JSD “over budgeted” $1.8 Million. $1.8 Million the JEA feels could have been included in the salary category. The JEA feels it has made cost-saving concessions such as higher deductibles, higher prescription co-pays, and choosing doctors within a cost-saving “network” of physicians. The JEA feels no urgency to pay insurance premiums to an insurance reserve fund which continues to grow. The JSD insists the JEA must pay these premiums. This is at an impasse: neither side is willing to budge.

Why_Teach, Thanks for the Acknowledgement. I've been called many things but genius has a ring to it. (Even if it was a sarcastic ring)

Nonetheless I think this has been a spirited, thought provoking, and civilized forum. I look forward to continued participation.

Sorry wisconsinheat it wasn't "Young Blood" it was "new blood" and yes you are the "Genius"
Thanks for the correction.

A positive example would be to negotiate in a professional manner in such a way that the students are not involved at all.

Why_Teach get your quotes correct. "young blood" is a Beatle's song and a movie. What post was it in?

Thank you teachers for showing your displeasure without calling in sick. I will support you because you are setting a possitive example for our children.

juleez231, You said teachers should be happy with the insurance they currently have. They are, that is why they are fighting to keep it. Let me guess, if you were in the teachers position you would tell the school district, "O.K., you made 1.5 mil from our insurance surplus last year so how about if we give up a good insurance plan and pay higher premiums so you can profit even more next year".
Anyone of you complaining people who have it out for the teachers would be doing the exact same thing, trying to keep what little monetary benefit the teaching proffession has. Many of you have stated that teachers know before entering the field that the pay isn't great. What you don't know is that people will still enter because they know the benefits are good and they would like to impact the lives of children. It is sort of a comprimise. Low pay good benefits. Take away the good benefits and see how many of the "young blood" (as some genius stated) there will be in the future.

If teachers are really upset about the public's perception of them, the "sick outs", "job actions" and picketing doesn't seem to be the best way to win friends and influence people. In order to be treated like a Professional, you have to act like one.

wisconsinheat - yeah, you are definitely right with the "cows come home" argument! By the way, thanks for the chuckle; I haven't heard the phrase in quite a while!

But then again we could argue / discuss untill the cows come home what would be adequate compensation for a twelve month contract. I would bet that the majority of non teaching citizen taxpayers would say that the current / proposed salary / benefit package would be fair based on a twelve month contract if continuing education requirements were figured in.

Juleez - I am very sorry for your situation, and I know you aren't the only one, but again, please refer back to my 5:33 post.

Wisconsinheat - yes, it does take a balance of new and old - sadly a lot of the new enthusiastic talent leaves before they can truly help implement some of their great ideas and everything is left hanging - also a problem due to administrative issues, but I digress...Also, I know some teachers who wouldn't mind a twelve month contract as long as the appropriate increase in pay came with it since they are in a sense contractually laid off and uncompensated in the summer months. Some teachers do love their jobs enough to do it all year - hence our summer school teachers and those who work teaching summer and interim classes at technical schools and universities!

20% to pay on your doctor bills is nothing. My family currently does not and can not get decent affordable insurance! The only option we have at this point is to pay $25,000.oo a year for medical insurance!AND this does not include copays! I would suck it up and pay that little bit! OR you can go ahead and pay for my families insurance! the country has an insurance problem, be happy you have some coverage at all!

Here's a novel idea. How about all JSD employees work on a twelve month contract and any required / mandatory training to maintain licensing be incorporated into the contract.
Any takers?

But on the other hand Nina, new blood means new ideas and new enthusiasm. BUT I realize there needs to be a happy medium of new and old to achieve the desired result. The one leg of the triangle that that is usually overlooked is the taxpayer. Perhaps they should have a seat in these negotiations as well. I realize the board is suppose to represent them but in reality I think we all realize their representation actually lies somewhere in the middle.

wisconsinheat - you may be right about the young, fresh out of college, future teachers! What young twenty-something isn't going to be excited by any kind of salary and benefits after possibly having none and working as a waitress or the like through college? The problem is they will see within a few years that they will not benefit as a veteran teacher, and they will make a permenant move elsewhere. I left a district at a fairly young age when I saw what they did to the retirement package, and I wasn't the only one to leave it for the same reasons. When there is a constant turnover of young staff in and out of a school or district, there lacks continuity, coherence,and a balance of experience which can very much result in a substandard education for the students.

futureteacher. You sur seem to make alot of assumptions."Offer less added to the negativity surrounding the job here and soon enough our kids will be taught by crappy teachers who dont care ABOUT YOUR KIDS, Who dont care anything about Janesville, and who are going to lead your children into a substandard exsistence."

But I believe that there are many bright, qualified, future teachers in waiting that would be more than happy to accept the challenge and responsibility to educate our children and do so under the proposed contract. And would do an excellent job.

I'm not saying that most of our veteran teachers do not deserve more, but most of the arguments being made here are without merit.

Are you serious MOCO428? "I have actually complained to my wife about working for free"? Because if you are, I have a suggestion for you that can actually make money for you. Quit her job and VOLUNTEER instead. That way you can take a tax deduction for your actual expenses and come out money ahead.

Come to think of it, that might not be a bad idea for many who complain they are "losing money" under the current or proposed contract.

Good Lord, make up your minds. Are you teachers workers or professionals? When you complain about the hours that you work, that is none of our concern. You are salaried employees and you are required to work the hours it takes to get the job done. If you want to punch a clock, go work on the line at GM. You complain about $90K annual compensation? What would please your royal highnesses and heinies?

Rocky:

Your anonymous friend's employment package is very generous. lets take your example:
58K in salary and ~32K in annual benefits?

58 + 32 = 90K
Extra assignments worth....?$10K? 20K?
FICA-this is a tax ( total tax on 58K is $4437)

How many people earning 58K per year can realisitcally save another 32K (on a salary of 58K) for retirement? Not many.

But your real comments are about "relative worth." Is your friend worth more. No. Not in the Janesville school district. This has been determined for him/her by his/her union official who negotiated this pay scale on her behalf.

As for a masters degree-the worth is dependent on the discipline. A masters in P.E, while this might be important to the elementary school (or secondary school) teacher, is worth less than a masters in math (were there is a shortage) but the market value has already been determined by the JEA union.

I believe the administrators salary are determined by the school board. Generally, most school boards move in lock step with the local union. The CEO of a private company that employs ~1500 FTEs probably is going to earn a lot more than 189K per year-but there probably are some companies where the CEO might earn less-however, in the private sector there isnt a union to determine one's wage and there isnt life time job security either.

Who's to blame in Janesville. Who knows.

Hmmm...so just because you have substandard insurance and high premiums and deductibles you want to drag everyone else into your quagmire? You are great examples of misery loves company and "if it's good enough for me, it's good enough for you." If any, any group of workers wanted to fight for a cost of living increase and to keep a decent, not awesome, but decent health program, I would never think to begrudge them the right to fight for it. In fact, if I had worse health care than some others, I would say, "Yeah, you better fight to keep it because mine stinks and you don't want it!" Some will win the battle; some will lose, but let the teachers try...

I don't of too many jobs out there that don't have a co-pay for their ins. I worked for the COJ for many years and we had to pay for our ins. We got yearly raises 2-3% a year. We also had to keep our schooling up too... We paid for our commerical licenses, partial pay for uniforms and cleaning when we had too. We could only get so much of a pay raise because the city said that was all in the budget we could afford,.. So you teachers out there wake up and live like the majority of the working class out here.....

Go back to work. Do it for the kids.

For all the complainers out there about how much teachers make. Here it is from an anonymous friend's pay stub for 2007: Total Salary (including 3 extra-curricular assignments, insurance, district FICA, retirement, all the costs of employment) $90,076. The salary portion was about $58,000. This person has a maximum preparation and 20 years of experience. Is that overpaid? Underpaid for a person with 20 years, a Master's Degree (almost the PhD)? Compare to the administrator salary at $97,000 with benefits to take compensation to $130,000.

More closely guarded than Fort Knox - not really.

BTW - a starting teacher makes significantly less - salary around $32,000 and benefits to take compensation to $58,000.

I cannot call in sick to protest unfairness, I haven't had a raise since 2005, I've had to pick up more of the cost of my insurance, I only get a 3 week vacation a year, I have worked for the same company for 18 years, we have not had a contract in 3.
Stop the insanity teaches. Poor you.

Signs indicating you should get "credit" for our children's education are ridiculous - That is what you signed on for - I don't get credit for the product/services I render - it is my JOB. Not every productive member of society gets a "thank you" or the pay they think they should make.

We heard tou before JM and it is "pray tell" not "pre tell"

"But take the High'st to witness: then, pray you, tell me, (Alls Well)
I pray thee, do not mock me, fellow-student" (Hamlet)

Is it true the superintendent makes 189,000. If so then the board is bad and the teachers are good, even though I still say the ones you elected are crazies. Any school board that pays someone that much is absolutly nuts!! (if it is true, I am going to the dpi website right now) I apologize right now for a few things but not all. Fire the board and the administration and start all over!! Cut off the big toe!!!!!

I'll reiterate what I said in a previous thread:

As a student at Parker High, I find it hilarious that people who sit behind secretarial desks or in cubicles day in and day out find they have the right to criticize teachers, let alone the audacity to suggest things like minimum wage payment. Considering the impact they have on future and how irreplacably important they are to society, teachers should by logic be payed as much as doctors and certainly more than lawyers.
A question to those who find teachers to be so worthy of lambast and insult: What, pre tell, have you done to contribute to society on a grand scale, to the future, to humanity? Who have you influenced? Who have you helped, guided? This is what teachers do day in and day out, they do so out of the good of their heart, and they go to college for anywhere from 8 to 10 years for it. Some teachers make barely enough money to get by on basic needs and expenses, while quite a number of people in this cuty are able to afford extravagant vacations, 2nd or 3rd cars, etc.

Thanks for the answer, I realize that the full picture is not given here on the two year contract and as an outsider who has a vested interest (children) it is frustrating to see the bickering and finger pointing.

What is the two year increase and what % are they using for COLA?

Supply and demand. Getting and keeping great teachers here in Janesville requires offering more to attract and retain them. Offer less added to the negativity surrounding the job here and soon enough our kids will be taught by crappy teachers who dont care ABOUT YOUR KIDS, Who dont care anything about Janesville, and who are going to lead your children into a substandard exsistence.

tjncj: Teachers have two year contracts, anyone can skew the numbers to work on their favor. Rocksolid does not address what the school board is offering in the second year of the contract which is less than COLA. Did you also notice that on the same post he admitted that he did not realize how much Dr. Everet actually makes. 189,000 a year with benefits. Rocksolid has been upfront on his posts, however he is also telling only a portion a the whole picture.

Please understand that I come to you as a teacher that is not complaining about necessarily being underpaid (although when one compares apples to apples in the professional realm, I think it’s an arguable point), but rather I am asking you to recognize we are fighting a battle of unfairness. I agree that those of us who choose to teach have chosen to do so with complete understanding of the substandard salary level compared to our college graduating comrades with similar degrees. We still made that choice. The reasons are many, and some of the comments made in this forum address those benefits in our profession that continue to attract people into our field. I love my job. I love these kids! Even though my current student loan balance exceeds my yearly salary (and I’ve been teaching more than a decade), I have few complaints.

What I’m asking you to recognize is that our district is currently treating us very unfairly. It seems like we teach under no contract almost every time a new contractual year comes around. The administration starts out with a ridiculous offer, and slowly increases their offer until we finally agree to the most minimal acceptable offer we can withstand. It’s tiring. This is the same district whose superintendent gave himself over a 14% raise in 2006. Dr. Evert went from making $122,170 a year in 2005 to $139,670 a year in 2006. This year he is making $144,150 (with a fringe benefit package valued at an additional $45,425). My salary doesn’t even match his fringe benefit. Can you recognize the injustice that exists between the administration and the teaching staff they employ?

Plain and simple, here is my biggest argument: We are being asked to pay into an insurance fund that experiences millions of dollars in surplus year after year. The district gets to keep that money, and do with it whatever they want, as long as they convince the board that their ideas are good ones. Now they want us to pay into that same fund that has provided them millions in surplus monies year after year. Whether a person feels my salary is compensatory or not, how can anyone possibly see that as fair?

Am I one that fell through the cracks?

Is it a paycut? I don't think teachers should stand for a paycut but then is Bill Sodemann wrong in this post? He states it isn't a pay cut. Since he signs hsi name to his posts I tend to think he isn't fudging the numbers.

I ask, is it a paycut or not?

From "Budget Cuts on School Candidates Agenda. points 1,3,7.

caddyshack: You have made some statements on this blog and the other blogs that are simply not true.
1. You said that we are asking you to pay $130.00 / month towards health insurance. That is literally a half truth. You would only pay $130.00 per month (10%) if you refused to partake in the wellness program. Otherwise it would be $65.00 (5%) per month.
2. In the other blog, you said that we provide 100% insurance to the administrators. Not true. They have taken the same plan that the other units have settled for and that we are offering you.
3. You said that you are being offered a settlement that is less than COLA and you are being asked to share in the health care premiums. Not true. Our offer of 4.7% per cell is by itself greater than COLA and it averages to 6.2% when you factor in step movement.
4. What do you base your statement that Dr. Evert's total compensation is $200,000.00 per year on?
5. FYI - We did not receive 3.8 million less in state aid than we did last year. Every year our state aid goes up in actual dollars received. The problem is that out total revenue is capped at about a 2% annual growth rate and our expenses, mostly salary, is almost double of that.
6. You said that earning 6 more credits did not increase your pay. I looked at the salary schedule and can find no example of how that would be true. Please clarify.
7. You stated that JEA is asking for a monthly increase of about $150.00. I am having a hard time seeing an example of that on the salary schedule. A real example is a teacher with a Masters degree and 10 years of experience. Under JEA's proposal, that teacher who earned $46,880.00 last year would earn $50,409.00 this year, which is $3529.00 per year or $295.00 more per month. The districts proposal of an increase of 4.7% per cell (first year) would mean an increase of $282.00 per month in the first year using this example (which factors in the step movement.
8. To sluggo - Your one time investment of $2000.00 to earn 6 more credits is rewarded by an additional salary increase that averages at least $1200.00 more per year. This is a great return on investment, especially in the earlier years of your career. If you teach for 20 more years after you earn your 6 credits, that means you will have received more than $24,000.00 back on your $2,000.00 investment!

It is great to discuss the issues, but let's discuss them with real numbers.
P.S. If anyone would like a copy of the current salary schedule, just email me at bill@phonesplus-jvl.com and I will be glad to forward you a copy in case you don't believe my numbers.
Bill Sodemann

Well put (onlyworthy,futureteacher and courtjester). Most people will never understand and we are pretty much wasting our energy trying to get them to. Some of the postings in here seem to be from people who fell through the cracks in the system. I have actually complained to my wife about working for free but she loves what she does and feels obligated to the children she serves. She was right and I was wrong. If all of you who graded papers and did planning only did it on the time given to you (if given any) by the district we would really be failing our children. I will never understand why people can't understand that without teachers our society would collapse. Teachers salaries should be based soley upon the above statement! I was mad at the increase I received this year, which was above the cost of living. I can't imagine how upset I would have been had I lost money.

I don't think people realize that everything that is being offered by the JSD equates to a pay cut for teachers. Most working people in this community earn pay raises as time goes on. We also have to remember that inflation brings the cost of living up. What the district continues to do is offer the teachers the same, or less, than what teachers already earn, whether it be in the form of benefits and/or salary. So as it seems to me people believe teachers are worthy enough for this community's children to be left with, to be taught these things that will help them for the rest of their lives, but these teachers certainly don't deserve to get paid for it?

I agree with Stupidisasstupiddoes, the past union head really turned me off as well. Of course the JSD wasn't much better. Both sides need to quit the cat and mouse games and sit down and work it out, there is a common ground there. I never understood why the negotiators couldn't meet for months at a time, certainly the strategy didn't work, and now there is a new leader who hopefully will go to the table.

To all you poo flinging monkeys out there who keep reiterating that teachers should pay more in their health premiums: Have you ever considered that the health care coverage is part of our teacher's compensation package? To ask for a higher contribution without giving more in a salary increase is akin to receiving a decrease. I'd be willing to bet that not very many of you would be willing to do that. Or for that matter, just sit back and take it because the moronic majority says so. How come virtually NOBODY brings these same issues up with our police, fire and municipal employees? It doesn't matter anyway, this post will get flamed by the same group of people who thought that McDonald's was Janesville's best burger joint...

I read things like "teachers know what they are getting into when they make their career choice" and I think "great! Some idiot wants future potential teachers who might actually be REALLY good at educating kids in all aspects of their lives to reconsider because they know ahead of time they will be crapped on . . . . . I hope some of you dont actually have children. I fear for those who do and for what the kids are learning at home. You must be teaching them to be blissfully ignorant, too.
Again, I want the best for my children, period. I want them to have the skills to accomplish the things I could not dream of. I want them to have a better life than I have had. That requires the best teachers available. How do you argue with that?

MOC0428.. It is really hard for the general public not to lump all the teachers in the same group when the union heads that they vote for are out in the media doing the things that they are doing. It would really be a breath of fresh air to hear from teachers that disagree with the job actions and how thier union leadership is representing them. The problem is it will NEVER happen because as soon as one comes out they will be marked by the crazies that have been elected and then treated like crap. I have seen it happen before. It is sad that the only ones that ever want to get elected are the ones that make the rest of the membership look bad. Maybe the last election is a sign that the teachers are sick of the way they have been represented and we will see some change. The way the old President of the union has acted in the past really did give teachers a bad rap IMO.

stupidisasstupiddoes
I never once condoned the "sick outs". I simply stated that they should get what they deserve and we all could get on with our lives. I'm guessing that you work in the private sector. How do you get your pay increases and benefits? If you are salary you negotiate for them or work hard so you get noticed above others. The teachers do not work in a system like this. They all get the same increase, in the end some get more than others based on their credits and degree etc..
Why should they keep paying into a system that has such a huge surplus each year?

Also realize that although most teachers back the union so they get what he deserve, they don't always agree with the job actions. I know quite a few teachers who felt there were better ways to get the message across. Don't lump all the teachers in the same category. Not all of them agree with the unions ideas but they don't have any other avenues to go down.

TCB... Well put. If the general public was really informed on the total package (wages, insurance and WRS retirement)a teacher gets there would be even less support than they have now.

federal workers , auto workers, and alot of other employees all over the country are also being asked to start paying more on their health insurance, most deductibles are now set at 20%,why should the teachers be any different,ask the people you see what they are paying for health care and co -pays the district is only asking that the teachers carry their fair share like the rest of us

Ihave:

Yes, the total compensation of administrators is available at the DPI website. It is interesting that DPI calculates the total cost of employement-and uses this figure as the cost of salary and benefits.

Try finding this figure for school teachers. This number is more guarded than nuclear launch codes. If the general public learns the true value of the cost of employing 1 teacher (which is salary, pension, and fringe benefits) the union will have very little to make a stand on.

MOC0428..."Give them what they are asking and this will be done." Are you kidding me?!?!? They teach the future leaders of our country by acting like children themselves. Sick outs, picketing and job actions. Whine cry and complain until you get what you want... Reminds me of my 3 year old!

whybesad:
You are so far off the mark with your comments I can't even respond how I really would like to. Think long term if you are capable. Do you understand that the children who are in our schools today will be running our country in the future. Wouldn't you want our children be educated the best they could be? There is a price to living in the U.S. as a free citizen. It called taxes. We pay property tax so we can get and keep great teachers. If we didn't then we would be pretty bad off. We are such a great country because of where it all begins, which is in school. Teachers do a lot for children and it is time that all of you in the public start to realize that. This is the only way they can bargain and it is unfortunate that it is at the expense of a child here and there. Give them what they are asking and this will be done.

First, I'd like to say that I fully support public education and Janesville's education staff. Having kids in the district's schools, and as an active school parent, most of the experience has been good. A couple of points I'd like to make, however. 1. Economically, teachers know what they are getting into when they make their career choice--some professions pay more than others. Thankfully, some good people choose to follow their hearts rather than pocketbooks when entering this field. 2. Just about anyone in a professional field doesn't punch a clock--I don't know of any salaried friends or relatives that work a flat 40 hours week. We all work earlier/later, take work home, don't take breaks, etc. Unfortunately, that comes with the territory of our current work culture. I consider teachers to be in this professional catagory--and no, before the argument begins, not every other professional makes a better salary--I know some who make considerably less. 3. We all pay co-pays, deductibles and portions of our health premiums. This serves two purposes: helps cover the employers costs as health care costs sky rocket, and makes us better consumers of health care. it is true that I wouldn't like working without an agreement; both sides need to step to the plate to get it done with compromises.

First of all I am not a teacher but one of my close friends is.

How many jobs out in the world do you have to pay a $100 just so you can keep your job? Every 5 years teachers have to renew their license. On top of that how many jobs out in the world require you to continue your education? Teachers never stop going to school and believe me the cost of a college credit is not cheap. When do people expect teachers to find the time to do all the things required of them? Support your teachers!!

Bigdaddy1- Looks like you could have used some better teacher like the ones in Janesville right now. I count at least 6 errors in your comment.

bigdaddy1
You are an ignorant fool to think that way. You must be the outcome of what futureteacher was talking about. The people who go into this profession do it to help society because they love working with children. If you continue to crap on them the good ones won't be teaching anymore, see what happens to society then. Look at what they are asking for! They don't want 10% raises or to not have to pay in for insurance. They are asking very legitimate questions. If there is a surplus that is continually growing then why should they have to pay more? You as a taxpayer are paying all of that unused money into a system that is not using it wisely.
Why isn't anyone looking at the administration and questioning their salaries? What does a first time principal make?? Probably close to 100K a year. Teachers make a lot less than administrators and they have a direct outcome on our children. Don't get me wrong we need administration but they make a bit more than they are worth. I think Janesville needs to take a look at our school board and vote a bit more wisely than in the past. Don't we have a school board member that home schools his children?? If I am correct in that statement then what is he doing on a school board, we should not have elected him! Please let me know if this is not the case.

"Marshall Middle School teachers picketed this morning in front of their school. They hoped to convince people that their side is right in the ongoing contract dispute with the school board."

Don't the teachers need to convice the board is wrong? What does this silly demonstration accomplish?

Here is a beautiful quote: "Maglio said teachers want to do what’s best for students, and that includes retaining good teachers. He suggested that teachers leave Janesville every year for jobs in districts where they are “more supported.”

Really? How many left where to pleaces were they are "more supported"? Is "more suppored" a euphismism for paid more? I would be more curious to know the real number who resigned (not retired) to go to a district where the reason supplied was the need for "more support." I think John Maglio is making a blanket statement designed to engender sympathy for the teachers. Someone check to see if Mr. Maglios nose grew when he made this statement.

Yeah- we've all heard the "3 months off in summer" thing before. Recognize a misleading argument when you see one, please. First - the summer bread is usually around 10 weeks - and most teachers use this time to maintain their professional credentials as is required by their licensure. This is done at their own expense on their own time.

Teachers also work approximately the same number of hours per year as other similarly trained professionals, but at a much lower pay scale. The fact that they do it in a 190 day work year is irrelevant. Many of you work 4-10's with 3 weeks of PAID vacation. That is 195 days with 12 paid days off. Teachers don't get the vacatoin time paid.

As for the insurance premium payment by teachers...it is an accounting trick that will make the board seem tough in public opinion, but will actually cost the board and the teachers more money in the long run. Since salary and benefits all come out of the same "pot" of money for teachers (according to the QEO law), any increases in salary are first reduced by the cost of increased insurace. So teachers already take lower salary to keep the insurance. This appears as fully funded by the district because it prevents those benefit dollars from being taxed. If the teacher receives it as pay and then gives it back as premium, both the teacher and the district are now responsible for the 7% FICA taxes on the money. The premium remains the same - the district actually increases their costs and the teachers decrease their take-home under this plan. The only benefit is the appearance of "getting tough"

So stand up for you Union brothers and sisters and help them in their fight.

I understand that health care is a nationwide crisis, and I would be completely willing to incorporate a partial payment of our health insurance premiums IF the following were NOT true:

1. Our health care fund has experienced a surplus each of the last five years of between one and two million dollars each year. (Why are we being asked to now pay into a pot that experiences substantial surpluses each year?) By the way, during the current year, we are already over $1 million in surplus.

2. The district has the right to determine our premiums each year, which is part of our benefits package (in essence, it is part of our whole contracted salary package). These are the same premiums that provide the district with that abundant surplus when our premiums far exceed our costs (year after year). Then the administration has the right to allocate the excess monies as they see fit. Apparently they are setting our premiums high, collecting the surplus, and putting it into their reserve fund that only they can draw from?

3. Last year many teaching positions were cut in the district because of a lack of district funds to support those positions, according to the administration. The claim was that we had to cut $2 million from our 2007-08 budget because of lack of funds. Less than a year after all these cuts were made, the district gave 1.5 million dollars back to the tax-paying public with surplus dollars. While this was a nice gesture toward a public that supported the referendum (and probably a smart political move by an administration that wants to retain your support in future decisions), it left your teaching population with a great sense of devaluation.

4. The board has now approved 4-year old Kindergarten (again, less than one year after all those positions were cut last year), at a cost of how many million dollars to the district? Aren’t they telling us they don’t have the money when they keep cutting our staff and programs?

5. Teachers are leaving this district in forces I think the public is unaware of. Your veteran teachers, the ones who have been here for some time, can’t really afford to jump ship because teachers are paid on a graduated scale according to years taught and education received. Most districts will not pay an incoming teacher more than ten years of experience from another district, and many as few as five years. Given that, veteran teachers are less able to afford to jump districts, but please pay attention to how many of our younger teachers leave for better paying positions in other districts. The best, most sought after teachers, gain employment elsewhere after getting a few years of experience under their belts.

6. Our superintendent gave himself a 14% raise last year while he is asking us to take HOW MUCH? And my salary isn’t even half of his.

P.S. I'm writing this during my duty-free lunch period, not contracted teaching time.

When I hear people who scrutinized teachers and their role in the city of Janesville, it makes me sick to my stomach. Teachers have been grossly underpaid and supported considering the major impact they have on our children, their success, and society(not to mention it's future). Janesville will eventually get lower and lower educated children because their teachers are treated like crap. Yet there are those who still dont get it. Who would want to work(teach) here if they have the choice to be treated better elsewhere? Better teach your own children how to say "want fries with that" or dumb them down into thinking they have no better options than to work in a go nowhere, brain dead job. Me? I want something better for my children. Shame on all those who dont, you dont deserve to be called a responsible parent.

how many jobs out in the world do you the summer months off . all the major holidays. why dont you see the private school having the same problums. Maybe the public school need to take class from them. Just shut up and do your job or find another one with all the time off you get.

To the comment about working before and after hours without pay. I do that everyday. I live in Janesville, but do not work there. I am at work an extra 30-45 minutes at the beginning of the day every day, and another 20-25 at the end of the day. Also, most of the time work a half hour of my alloted one hour lunch. So, teachers are not the only ones that are working before and after their required hours without pay. And yes, like most Americans now, I do pay for part of my health insurance. Get over it.

You got me...I spent five minutes during my prep. I'll consider that a fair trade for the two hours I spent lesson planning at home last night. PS. I'm on my duty-free lunch right now.

I don't think the teachers have a leg to stand on regarding this issue. We all have to pay for health insurance. It's your health not the taxpayers. We passed your referedum to make the highschools a better place for you to work. We take every property tax increase with a grin and bear it attitude and you still want to whine about how bad things are. So, you have to pay $13.50 for a doctor's visit that's nothing.

teacher_not_martyr are you posting during your paid or non paid prep time on a school computer or is there no classes today? You say you do not have time to picket but you do have time right now to post your thoughts. It is things like the sickout and teachers on school time posting on this website that ticks off the taxpayers. Picket all you want. I think it is a great way to prove your point. It is a much better way to do it than calling in sick or posting opinions on this website.

I wouldn't have time to picket because I'm busy preparing lessons (unpaid) during those morning hours. I'm sure those picketers were stressed over missing their usual (unpaid) prep time that they regularly choose to work so that they can teach your children in the best manner possible. See here's the thing: calling in sick may seem unfair to children but there is no way to draw attention to our situation without affecting children. Most of the teachers who participated in the "sick-out" were concerned about how it would affect their kids but saw no other viable option. The district knows that we will do whatever we need to do to be prepared to meet your children everyday. In fact, it seems as though we are expected to work extra hours unpaid as if we shouldn't care about things like overtime that other types of professions offer. So regardless of what happens, we will always do everthing we can do to teach children no matter what we're stuck with. That's the thing about teachers - we don't sign up for the money. We sign up because we care about helping kids. Most of us assume that we won't be making as much as others with a similar level of education but we hope that we will be compensated by seeing children succeed on a daily basis, earning benefits comparible to other public employees, and being respected for our efforts. Instead, we are constantly publically criticized for being lazy and greedy.

Unfortunately for most of us, even those who work high level jobs in the Health Care industry, we are required to pay a good portion of our insurance premiums. I think we will all have to change our mind set about expecting a large part of our medical care covered. Even if we eventually have universal health care coverage, the old saying applies, "there is no such thing as a free puppy."

In this negotiation there are only two sides. The teachers and the public. Some of the teachers are also members of the public represented by the school board and some are not. There is a health insurance crisis in this country and it has been going on for at least 20 years. Certain groups have been insulated from this crisis until recently.

I would be much more apt to support teachers in this type of demonstration than the way the teachers at Parker handle it by calling in sick.