babsjvl I don’t know you so I can’t say if you’re a jackass or not. Maybe you should simmer down a bit and read my post again as I have no idea what warranted your response. For the record I’m a father of three that works full time. My wife also works full time and it was hard starting out but we managed. I’ve also been known to be a jackass at times.

I'm very interested to know exactly what the cirriculum is for this program. As a sing mother of a 3 year old, I am doing everying to trying to ensure advanced learing for my daughter. When I heard about the program I was excited, but I need to know more specifics about the program before I waste my daughters time and effort. I surely don't want her bored. She knows all the alphabet, numbers to 20, all colors and shapes. She can also recognize words and we are starting to working on writting the alphabet.

I agree a daycare scenerio is not the best choice. Like I said before, we are fortuneate enough to have 4k in our school district. But I would think differently if it were a daycare environment. There is not enough structure in a "most" daycares, and in my opinion they are over populated for the experience the providers hold. Now, in an actual 4K, there is an actual teacher, and actual curriculum. As far as socializing, it is important for children to interact with children their own age. I can attest to this from personal experience. My five year old had a teenage sibling and his parents as the only consistant interactions for 5 years. Well, he had not learned how to share properly, because obviously none of us wanted to play with his toys, he didn't know how to perceive ineraction play, and he basically was stunted socially. So, it is very important for children to be acedemically prepared as well as socially. It is the parents job to be sure that the bad behavoir that is learned, and it will be, is corrected and apply consequences as needed. That is how we learn how to follow rules and how to become a part of society.

This whole 4K thing is a red herring. What really determines a kid's success is the stablilty of family life. It's a joke if you think that because your 4 year old can read he needs to be in school. Um, HELLO, your child learned his letters, numbers, and how to read OUTSIDE of school... and for some reason people think the kids will "advance quicker" then if they stay out of public ed.
No, they learn not to work ahead, to do what they are told, and not THINK. Public school is about who conforms the best, and not about learning.

Religion is being pushed on kids with taxpayer money. I thought that public schools couldn't have prayer or be religious is nature, and here Christian schools are getting city funding.

I don't think taxpayer dollars should go towards telling little girls that their highest calling is to obey their husbands and make babies. Not a solid educational foundation IMO.

MOCO428-
Are you kidding? I'm supposed to let other kids socialize my kids and teach them how to act? Have you hung out in a school cafeteria and seen the disgusting lack of manners these days?
Thanks, but no thanks. How is keeping kids with only kids thier age going to socialize them? Don;t you think taking them to meet other generations and exposing them to different circumstances is better than sticking them in a church basement?
i think you're confusing 'socializing' with "learning to follow rules and routines.' This philosophy makes great soldiers, but crappy thinkers.

By having them going to daycare the kids are going to get a dose of reality and i think this will back fire unless you put them in actual schools

Well...if i was going to put my kid in daycare, it'd be nice to know that it was an educational environment (as educational as you can make an envirtonment for a 4 year old, anyway.) and not a babysit-with-TV kind of thing. Of course, there's no substitute for parents who take an active role in their children's education and who read to them every night growing up, etc. etc. You're right Cracker, any jackass can have a child. If only we had PARENT daycare that would educate parents. And i especially love sluggo's coment about paying teachers what they're worth (YOU try being responsible for half raising and educating 30 students 8 hours a day 5 days a week!) and lowering the class sizes. Amen.

Skewed - read this
http://www.schoolfunding.info/news/polic...

Yes skewed - however I do agree that the money is not working - education is still basically using the same model that was used pre 1950 for the most part. There are some go-getters out there, but... Also on a different note, why do the public school systems allow textbook companies to dictate what is taught? Oh because they make more money AND the test making companies are really raking it in. so let's spend more money on the test!

Skewed facts? Reading has changed? Math? Twenty five or thirty years ago I studied the same algebra, trig and calc as my children but I did it without the use of a calculators they use now and probably understood the theory more completely. Chemistry, biology, physics have changed? Thirty five percent proficiency in reading and 23% in science are real numbers and is an indication of a huge problem and our current education system will not fix it.
I do like the Japanese theory on early education you mention though.

Who are these officials???????
"Officials believe that when parents can’t afford to give their children a quality preschool experience, those children fall behind, and many never catch up, leading to behavior problems, truancy and other problems during their school years and poverty, crime and other social ills when they reach adulthood."

FYI - the NCLB tests have one fatal flaw - they average all the scores and determing a 'cut off' for proficient, basic... Half the kids will ALWAYS fall below proficient. The cut off score changes every year. Not to smart huh?

Cracker wrote( But we all know what the real problem is….. You have to take a test to drive a car but any jackass can have a kid.) so what are you saying that your a jack ass? Do you and you husband or man in your house both work or do you sit at home allday? yes I agree with you that there are some bad parents out there but there are a lot of good to very good parents out there too. I think your comments were uncalled for. Can you discribe a jackass for me? I have two kids so am i a jackass? I work full time and so does the mother we provide everything we can as well as parent time, fun time and learning time for both. From what i can tell from reading sounds like you sit at home all day but i could be wrong. Good job janesville on pj4.

Sorry tjncj, but achievement has risen- those facts were skewed when the book came out. Since standardized tests are norm-referenced it's not a good way to compare scores from year to year. Just look at the material an 8th/9th grader is learning compared to one 40 years ago. Also - Japan for example crushes the U.S. in testing and they don't send kids to formal school until they are six. They insist that kids be kids first.
I got an idea - pay teachers what they are worth, lower class sizes so kids can learn in the upper grades, and quit treating school like it's an assembly line.

Great, more taxpayer funded daycare. Although I think the schools have lost focus on the basics its poor parenting that’s the problem. Regardless of how much money you throw at the education system that kid still goes home to a hopeless environment. I have two in Middle school and one in Elementary and I hear the same thing every time. “You can tell you read to your kids when they were very young and take an active role in their education”. It’s a complex problem and one not easily solved. In general I think teachers do a good job. They have to deal with and are responsible for unruly little jerks all day yet they have little authority to do anything. The only way more money can help is more money in the home. We need to relieve the financial burden on the parents so one could stay home or work part time. We are doing the exact opposite. An expensive bloated education system will solve nothing. But we all know what the real problem is….. You have to take a test to drive a car but any jackass can have a kid.

MOCO428: You have hit quite a few nails on the head with how dual income families, societal changes, etc. have entered into the present century. As you said, whether we like it or agree with it, it is reality.

Just a side note, the Beloit school that was running a year round school year is no longer doing so. They started with this program back in the later 90's but due to the almighty budget cuts, I believe they went back to a regurlar calendar the school year in 05-06 or 06-07. There were many attempts to get other buildings on board, but they could never get the parents on board. Change tends to be a hard thing for some even when it truly is in the best interest (Educationally) of their children. It was also very difficult to keep it going when some parents had elem. students on one schedule and middle/high school students on a different schedule.

With the "traditional" schedule, teachers can spend at least half of the first quarter of school reteaching skills from the previous year because students have lost those skills when not repeatedly practiced over the long summer. A year round calendar with a 5-6 week summer break, 3 week breaks in the fall and spring, and a 2 week break at Christmas (approximates) really does help battle the retention issue regarding skills. Since it is so difficult to convince parents of this educational benefit, programs such as the PK4 program could be the only answer to combat the lack of preparedness that ALL districts are experiencing these days.

4K cannot hurt the children and the expense is minimal to the tax payers. Another thing the people tend to overlook is the dynamics of a family now versus 30-40 years ago. It now takes much more money to live so you see more dual income families. Inflation has risen faster than our wages, which puts us into this situation. The "stay at home mom" is slowly becoming a thing of the past. This is unfortunate but that is how it is. Parents rely on other people more to educate their children. Right, wrong or indifferent that is the reality. What is lacking is the amount of time we spend in school. Look at Japan for instance, they go to school for 240 days a year. I'm not saying that is the right amount either but that is quite a lot more that we do over here. I am a firm believer in school year round with smaller breaks throughout the year. I think there is an elementary school in Beloit that does this. If children are exposed to things year round they would tend to forget less of it.
Throwing money at it won't solve the problem unless there is a solid plan behind it. I'm pretty sure that is what foofoogrl was getting at.

There are also a lot more distractions and things for children to do now days. There are more and more recreational activities to participate in, the game consoles, computer, etc... Our educational system has to compete against all of this. When there is so much for a child to do they can' possibly put all of their effort into school. I think as parents we have all gotten so busy we let our children watch more tv or play games and as a result they do less and less of what our parents did, READ! Yes, there will be people out there that will respond to this adversely because they are the ones that are raising perfect children and the mom does stay at home but they also seem to be living in a world that most do not!

In summary, I don't think 4K will fix anything by itself but it also can't hurt. Parent's need to step back and look at what more we can do to help our education system and quit blaming them for not producing smart children that can compete with the rest of the world.

njncj...no, your statistics don't sound like money is being spent appropriately, and if those numbers are indeed facts, that is sad. But, that would mean that something should change, and wouldn't that mean doing something different with the next generation would be the key? Dollars are already being spent on charter schools and such for these students that are lacking skills, hopefully in the future, their might not be a need for these schools. That would be in the ideal world, wouldn't it? But I also believe that these 4K programs are not going to illiminate poorly educated students, but there can never be too much education in my eyes. And if there was a way to better society without spending money, that would be great, but there aren't many people willing to do charity work anymore.

Well, if putting children's education first, and excepting the fact that to improve schools cost money makes me simplistic and narrowminded, I wholeheartedly accept those characteristic traits. Not all things need to be complex. Educated versus noneducated in my eyes is pretty much black and white. And Democrats care about children too!

"Unfortuneately, the only way to improve something is with money"-FooFoogirl

I have to disagree with you. We are throwing more than twice the dollars per student (adjusted for inflation) as we were 30-40 years ago and getting lower scores to show for it! That is the problem, everyone wants to throw money at it instead of fixing what is broken.

"Now the bad news: The average high school senior doesn't read as well as in 1992, the first year the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) was given to 12th-graders. In 2005, 35% of students scored "proficient" or better, down from 40% in 1992. Reading at a "proficient" level means students can make critical judgments, and read at a more sophisticated level, describing for instance, how two editorials argue different viewpoints. "Basic" means students can read and retrieve information from a document and recognize a sequence of plot elements."
USA Today Feruary 9 2007
Two thirds of 12th graders are not proficient at reading, and the same article shows 77% are NOT proficient at math. Does that sound like the money being spent is working to you?

Foo Foo Girl says- "Unfortuneately, the only way to improve something is with money" Once again, your comments are simplistic and narrowminded. However, I think there is a political party calling your name.

Unfortuneately, the only way to improve something is with money. I can only see better preparing children to be a benefit to society, and hopefully in the long run will end up costing less. I don't see how educating children can EVER go wrong. They will be the root of the economy someday, and need to be prepared for the ever evolving world. If we are lagging behind "so called" third world countries, what better reason to encourage more education. I don't know this to be a fact, I am only going from what you are stating, but I for one would put that as a number one reason to encourage these classes. The world is so technical now with computers and such, that the interaction of people is slim to null, and this encourages social skills which are needed to make it in the world.

What about Head Start and No Child Left Behind? What is next 3K, 2K? We continue to pump money into a public school system that is failing miserabley all over the country. We are falling behind all industrialized nations and some so called third world nations. ACT and SAT scores continue to drop. We are ranked 21st in sience and 25th in math when ranked against the other 30 industrialized nations. Reading scores are at an all time low. We spend $10,000 plus dollars per child in public schools that can't keep up with the parochial schools that spend 1/3 of that amount (I know they aren't required to have all the mandated programs). The point is the system isn't working and throwing more money at the system isn't the solution.

We are fortuneate enough to have 4K in our school, and my son started this year, and it has been a tremendous help. I am a stay at home mom, and my son was more than ready to start Kindergarden. He can count to 20, knows all of his colors, shapes and can use the internet on his own. BUT he was five after the cut off, and could not attend kindergarden. So, at the suggestion of our family doctor, we enrolled him in 4K. And little did we know, even though acedemically, he was ready, socially, he was in NO WAY ready. He had a really hard time interacting with the others because we have been one on one for 5 years. So, whether it be 4K, preschool or a program such as this, I believe it is VERY IMPORTANT for a child to attend some sort of social environment before they enter school, so they can concentrate on their studies. There are always going to be people who are going to be against these programs, and I think as long as there are studies that show the benefits of these programs, if you think they will benefit your child, I encourage you to do it. Some people on here have commented about tax payers are paying for this, and eventually will be paying for irresponsible parenting...think of it this way, if a child is ill prepared for school, your tax dollars go towards that teacher's aide that is hired to help the children who are beind the others, and your tax dollars go towards that child that disrupts school because he is ill prepared, and is sent to juvenile hall. So, wouldn't you rather your tax dollars go towards something positive for children, rather than paying to dicipline them?

I think it's very interesting reading the comments from people that think this is all about free daycare. As a stay at home mom of a 2 year old and soon to be 4 year old, I do not need daycare or free daycare for that much. Let's face it, the school board already approved the program and we can't change that. Now we are forced to decide what is best for our children. My son gets all the learning he needs from home, yes we sing songs, finger paint, play board games, learn the alphabet and all that. However, he does miss out on interaction with other children. As MOC0428 said it is very much about the social skills as it is the academic learning. If hundreds of 4 year olds use this program than that is a great way for my son to meet some future friends, neighbors, or classmates. Our job as parents is to pave the way for our little ones. I don't see how letting them go to preschool a couple of hours a day in addition to all the support at home can harm them.

I have a 4 year old who is currently attending preschool. Having a late August birthday I have decided, along with imput from teachers, that I will wait another year before having him start Kindergarten. I would have loved to take advantage of this 4k program for my child, so they can get used to going every day, however, I'm being told since he will be 5 (just a few days before Sept 1), he will not be reimbursed by the DPI, because he is technically able to start Kindergarten. So I will be paying the preschool fees for him to attend, so he is ready for Kindergarten.

Why can't we let kids be kids i don't agree with a child having to start school at such a young age. Did you ever think the the truancy and other problem come from be bored with school or other circumstances rather then this? as a kid we started in the first grade. all day kindergarten,now pre-k. Parents today need to spend time and teach their own children bond with them eat at the dining room table as a family them not in front of the TV give them what we had FAMILY TIME. In my opinion a child has to be allowed to be a child. and be able to be active as to having to sit and not talk and follow rules that they hardly have had a chance to understand. try and keep 10 or 15 little 4 year olds still and quiet for 2 to 2 1/2 hours. Kindergarten kids get different colored cards for behavior and it doesn't help their self esteem to think the are bad for being a kid. talking or laughing or playing hard I question why the need is to take being a kid away so young. But then a free babysitter for a few hours for some might be the answer. What happened to PARENTS teaching their little ones twinkle twinkle little star or the alphabet or incy wincy spider Come on they grow up to fast the way it is. LET THEM EXPERIENCE CHILDHOOD! WHAT NEXT FROM DELIVERY ROOM TO PRE-K.....

Wow. I really can't believe the negativity towards something you all seem to know so little about. Seabea, it is more than crayons 101 and an intro to fingerpainting. It is only 3 hours a day and you are not paying for all of it. It's just another avenue to get kids started early. I am a parent and I do all of the things that you mentioned but what is wrong with a bit more? Also it's not always the content of the class but the social aspects they will be learning, that is far more important than learning how to color between the lines. My child is also enrolled with this program through the day care center he belongs to. We are paying the same rate wether he is part of this or not so it is not free for us! Some of the comments made should not suprise me because they are the same ones from the same people all the time.

Simon: I believe there needs to be at least 1 DPI certified instructor at each facility that runs the program.

tjncj: How do you propose a parent teach social skills? The best way to learn social skills is to have your child interact with other children. I would agree that you can teach right and wrong but until they are exposed to a social environment it won't mean anything to them.

mrmeaded: I guess your wife worked for the wrong daycare centers as there are very good one all around the city. It's too bad she had a bad experience but not all are that way.

Zoom: I stated it earlier, I am still paying the same amount for daycare wether or not my child is enrolled. Even if it did cost you some money it would be a very small amount that you wouldn't even notice on your tax bill. I pay the taxes too, you're not alone!

mrmeadec-What kinds of things were happening in the daycare centers that you didn't like? I have a child in daycare....just wondering what your concern is?

I also hope more details are forthcoming, since this is being paid for by tax dollars.

"Officials estimated that about 250 of the district’s 689 kindergartners were not prepared for the kindergarten curriculum when they entered school last September."

Estimated? Are there going to be measures for success?

Of course, if I had a 4 year old, I'd take the free day care too.

My wife used to work for different day cares in janesville area. Between taking are son and her working at the different one around town there is no way i take my kids to any!!! If you people say what happens to the kids when parents are not around you too would pull them out at all cost. The church ones are just as bad as the other ones. thats why she dont work for them anymore

I am a TEACHER at one the centers that will be providing P4J. There will be DPI Early Childhood Teachers CO-TEACHING with our regular teachers. Both our Preschool teachers have 20+ years experience. Our center has been providing quality Early Childhood Education for 39 yrs. We are also a NOT-FOR PROFIT center as are many on the list. The State will be paying us just like they pay the school district for those 2 1/2 - 3 hours as long as we provide DPI certified teachers. Im sure as time gets closer there will be articles explaining it more throughly.

And to those who have made the comment that those of us that provide childcare are not teachers because we do not hold a 4 yr degree. I challange you to come visit this week during the open house times at these centers and see what actually goes on during our day. Yes we are teachers. We are your children's SECOND TEACHER. YOU, THE PARENT, ARE THE FIRST!!! Remember, your children learn first by what they see you doing!!!

Wow, in four years we can have them arrested for throwing a fit, like the 8yr old that was charged with battery. We should start teaching them in 4 yr old kindergarden what battery is so they know that it is something other than what their tickle me elmo runs on. 8yr old really?

This program has always been available, it's called PRESCHOOL and should be paid for by the parents. If you can't afford it, read to your children and teach them their ABC's, colors and how to be respectful and behave. It only takes a few hours a week and is a great experience for parent and child.

Im sorry - I'm ok with the program, but this is not backed up by research - in fact the research completely refutes the following statement:
"Officials believe that when parents can’t afford to give their children a quality preschool experience, those children fall behind, and many never catch up, leading to behavior problems, truancy and other problems during their school years and poverty, crime and other social ills when they reach adulthood."

Facts- When studies follow children through school to determine if preschool had a lasting effect it was shown that by 2nd/3rd grade there was no difference academically - however children who weren't put into programs at an early age actually ENJOYED school more.
Just a point

Simon
I agree are they? Also it says cost is free we know nothing is free. It says right in the article under funding "The Property Tax Levy" so how much is this going to cost tax payers. These preschools are private sites for profit, what they are just going to give these spots to the school district. I have had three childeren go through pre school I know what it costs to send a child there. They are going to get there money there not going to give these money making spots to the district for free. That means tax hike!! I hope Todd Bailey is educated this time and doesn't have a pre schooler or we will have to pay more like at the high schools put in a wrestling room at each pre school

I am wondering how the 250 children entering Kindergarten were not prepared.

Are the teachers of this four-year old program DPI certified teachers in Wisconsin or preschool/daycare teachers? I know a lot of preschool teachers that call themselves teachers, but they don't have a college degree from a four-year institution. This information should be published so parents can make the most educated choice of school.

I don't see how it's irresonsible parenting to want the best for our children. My son is 4 and I think he's quite bright. We spend a lot of time working on learning his letters and writing, we read books all the time and do lots of fun varied activities. However, he is so excitable that in group situations he has a very hard time knowing how to interact with other children. So at a financial hardship to ourselves we chose to send him to preschool this year - it has made such an amazing difference in his social skills, I am so glad he'll be attending P4J next year. This way he'll still get the help he needs and we won't have to decide what bills to shuffle around.

Seabee - Absolutely agree with you in SOME circumstances. However, I plan to put my daughter in this program due to the fact that I want to MAKE SURE she is prepared. I work a full-time job and don't always have as much time as I would like to dedicate to teaching my daughter. For some of us, it's more difficult than others.

Evidently there are parents out there that no longer have an interest in teaching their kids crayon 101 and introductory finger painting. Sad sad sad. Give it time and they will eventually demand that I help cover the cost of their irresponsible parenting.