Strip club sting nets 10 arrests

So are they people back to work? Now I know why all the people got laid off a GM.

So where is Jennifer Lowell's picture? I remember her from grade school, moved back from Phonix last year just in time to get arrested. I did not know she was a working girl. Kind of funny, I seen her in Walmart with her high heels, and fur coat. She approuched me, and we made small talk about her begin back in town, and gave me her number.That did not ring a bell. I guess I will alway think in a small town way. Not being exposed to hookers.Jennifer Reik has great photo appeal, to bad she is a hooker.

I can't believe the cops in Janesville. leave Halbach alone. your just trying to run him out of town. and any resedent of Janesville who thinks the police are doing a good job on this shoud be ashamed. lap dances are not prostitution. rubbing your breast or butt on someone is not prostitution. prostitution is someone performing sex for money. not shaking her little tush on a customer. get real janesville police and your big city california sargent. get some of them street corner crack dealers all over the place in the fourth ward. leave Halbach and his dancers alone.

As I posted on another page:

to anyone whom I have inadvertently hurt, I sincerely apologize.

going forward, I will attempt to clearly state that I am in no way referring to this group of women, nor any particular woman (as that would be morally and ethically WRONG) as being a victim of assault (or of anything). I am attempting to voice my opinion that there is the possibility that there may be issues that the average citizen may not consider in their analysis of the situation and in response to the article. I certainly hope that before people judge someone else's behavior, they will look (long and hard) at their own behavior.

With that, I wish you a good day.

I know...let's combine the two businesses..
'Frosty Meemee's'
Janesville residents can get twinkle cote with a table dance!

there is, imho, a HUGE difference between acceptance and forgiveness. I suppose I can forgive Kip for the things he has done to the young boys in Janesville and Edgerton. However, I can't accept that he is putting himself (and more children) at risk of repeating the offenses that landed him in jail (during ice cream off-season, of course). I think that he still has demons inside of him that will probably persist as long as he lives. Working with young children (boys, primarily) is just asking for history to repeat itself...or searches for ways to "get around the system" when the urge strikes. like I said, it's only my opinion.

There's way too much atonement / forgiveness going on in the Catholic Church.

More like organized criminal behavior and conspriratorial coverups worthy of application of the RICO statuetes.

Poor Jesus!!!

Are you referring to the Catholic Church?

Regarding Frosty Freeze et al: What would Christ say? Are we too Godlike to allow for atonement?

attorney at large, but Dairy Queen doesn't have "Twinkle Cote"

Here's something new. I think I'll give it a try.
Come closer you! I like to see what I buy...
The usual price, for just a slice of your pie

[FANTINE]
I don't want you. No, no, m'sieur, let me go.

[BAMATABOIS]
Is this a trick? I won't pay more!

[FANTINE]
No, not at all.

[BAMATABOIS]
You've got some nerve, you little whore
You've got some gall.
It's the same with a tart as it is with a grocer
The customer sees what he gets in advance
It's not for the whore to say `yes sir' or `no sir'
It's not for the harlot to pick and to choose
Or lead me to a dance!

[Javert enters, accompanied by constables]

[JAVERT]
Tell me quickly what's the story
Who saw what and why and where
Let him give a full description
Let him answer to Javert!
In this nest of whores and vipers
Let one speak who saw it all
Who laid hands on this good man here?
What's the substance of this brawl?

[BAMATABOIS]
Javert, would you believe it
I was crossing from the park
When this prostitute attacked me
You can see she left her mark

[JAVERT]
She will answer for her actions
When you make a full report
You may rest assured, M'sieur,
That she will answer to the court.
FANTINE]
There's a child who sorely needs me
Please M'sieur, she's but that high
Holy God, is there no mercy?
If I go to jail she'll die!

[JAVERT]
I have heard such protestations
Every day for twenty years
Let's have no more explanations
Save your breath and save your tears
`Honest work, just reward,
That's the way to please the Lord.'

[Fantine gives a last despairing cry as she is arrested by the constables. Valjean emerges from the crowd]

[VALJEAN]
A moment of your time, Javert
I do believe this woman's tale

[JAVERT]

[VALJEAN]
You've done your duty, let her be
She needs a doctor, not a jail.

A tale once told and eloquently explained my Les Mis....

gazettefan, we are in agreement again! I don't understand why abuse by catholic priests was ALLOWED to continue as long as it has (virtually since the beginning of time)...

again, grooming...I have seen taped confessions by people who specifically went into ministry or other helping fields in order to groom their preferred victims. It's just SO WRONG.

No, on the Clinton thing.

The baffling tolerance toward the ongoing criminality in Catholic Church inspires tolerance for that same criminality in other areas of American life.

The Church is supposed to be the cure for society's ills; but in this case it is the cause.

thanks, gazettefan, I was probably as surprised to read that you agreed with me as you were! :D

Now about that mother...do her kids get candy from the Clinton janitor/busdriver, too? It's only a date...it's ice cream...?

NO, IT'S NOT...IT'S CHILD MOLESTATION!!

and btw: what "it" is with pervs and ice cream is called GROOMING...

I agree with attorney.... and ms....sassy (What are the odds that would happen at the same time?)

My first thought on why people would put money in that guy's pocket is that they don't read the paper or listen to WCLO.

But I asked a mother of three children, who does read the paper, why she buys ice cream there and she said: "The guy only asked a kid for a date."

Doesn't a convicted child molester own the Dairy Queen across town on Racine as well?

What is it with the pervs in this town owning the ice cream joints? I think I'll stick with Culver's.

I agree with you whole-heartedly, attorneyatlarge! It is exasperating to see people giving their money to him! I WILL not go there! From the first time I met him, he gave me the creeps and I had my suspicions about him...then my suspicions were confirmed. I try not to judge a person, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's very likely a duck!

I'm amazed that Janesville is flipping out about what consenting adults do in their spare time- yet have no qualms about a convicted child molestor running an ICE CREAM SHOP.
I can't believe it every time I drive past there and I see parents giving their hard earned money to a guy that molested children!!!!

Kip Lecher owns Frosty Freeze.

I guess the morals of people can be bought with cheap ice cream... come on Dairy Queen is just down the street!

Jim Beam me up.

Returned to K-PAX.

Marvelous use of the taxpayer dollar. What's the total cost of this courageous operation? Itemized please - individuals, steps in the operation, planning, stakeouts, transportation, processing, court costs, etc etc. . .

Try to guess, and guess whether we will ever find out. Who authorizes this stuff, thinks up the noble campaigns? And WHY?

The post below is for Kleej.

And that applies to this issue how.....?

Wow! Are you folks still in here arguing about this stuff?! Come on out and see what you are missing.

gazettefan~
Actually, if you want the brutally honest truth, when I speak of foundational truth, the founders of this country were smart enough to build the foundation of this country based on Judeo-Christian principles; you know, "thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shall not lie....etc because if that's the bedrock of society and people are held to those standards, which just happens to be the way people should live, there is none of this redirect that occurs in our society from these so called intellects who have their own form of value systems. Countries fall under these patterns. It's documented through history. We are no exception here in the U.S....we have "barbarians" within our walls that have and will run this country into the ground!
DEFINITION OF "BARBARIAN"= a person who lives by "power and pleasure" rather than by "principle"

OK, then we're disagreeing as to whether prostitution is going on at Screamin' MeeMees.

("Getting wasted with random guy" may be just the courting process.)

If they are just stripping, I see your point.

But when it comes to the argument of whether or not they are prostitutes , I'm leaning toward the belief that they are prostitutes.

Can't see the cops going through all the trouble otherwise. Specific charges have been filed against johns too.

What I'm saying is, the girls at screaming mee mees, at least AT screaming mee mees, aren't getting wasted and going home with random guys on a regular basis. These girls, aren't prostitutes, they are strippers. Performing acts that girls who AREN'T strippers perform in PUBLIC.

And after the purchase of drinks, sex with a stranger eventually happens in the absence of any social skills?

If the answer is yes, are you arguing against the need for prostitutes?

You obviously haven't been to a bar in a while. The music is so loud socializing is almost non-existent. It's basically a bunch of sweaty drunk people grinding their "genitals" on each other.

When sex occurs at some time after the purchase of drinks, social skill is required at some point in the entire process.

Social skill is that thing that's absent from the direct purchase of sex.

johns need as much help as the prostitutes. But not from each other.

Kleej,

You start out stating ...laws of the land were established..." Then you say "[the laws were established] to protect people from their own government!" It can't be overlooked that these two things are NOT precisley the same.

Laws were and have been established, certainly; but not exclusiveley to protect the people from the government. Can you really tell me that you do not approve of (and benefit from) many of our current laws that protect you from certain kinds of behavior by people who are not members of the government? I doubt it.

Again, your allusions here seem too general to work excusely for your point.

You rely too much on what you refer to as "foundation" as a way of saying anything goes. You rely on it to the point that you seem to be defending the legalization of prostition. Maybe you believe that in some way prostitution is protected by the right to pursue happiness (not only the johns' but the prostitutes' too). The people who live in that neighboorhood also have a right to pursue happiness. In this case, whose right to pursue happiness overides the other? I'd opt for the people in the neighborhood. (The location of the place in question is not the only point of contention here. State the other points of contention, if you want.)

You cannot possibly reject all forms of government intervention. How eager would you be to patronize a bar or restaurant were there no health codes?

And this claim by you and others that we are speeding down the road (or on a slippery slope) toward communism only tells me that the time or effort has not been taken to understand what life is like in a communist state, especially compared to here.

As alienated and disgruntled with our country as Lee Oswald was, he soon soured on life in Russia and the Soviet Union (and he was a committed communist). That's why he returned to the U.S. with plans for making his new home in Castro's Cuba. He got sidetracked before he could realize his dream of living in that communist paradise. But I don't think we needed his inpute to tell us what a miserable place Cuba is.

What's overlooked here is that while the process is not perfect: The majority of our laws result from the populace using the government to enacts its will.

The idea of the "slippery slope" has hit a slippery slope of its own.

To clarify, or back up my original point to Optimism.

I was using that analogy to show, that whether it's a strip club or a bar, in one way or another the girls are getting "paid".

In the strip club, it's with a twenty dollar bill. In the bar, it's in the form of free drinks.

Now, I don't claim to be the smartest guy here, but I'm pretty sure getting $20 bills shoved into your g-string will not contribute to impaired judgment.

If anything is contributing to the downfall of our society, it's not strip clubs. It's the influences in modern entertainment that teach young girls that it's ok to flaunt their sexuality to get what they want. Things like MTV and Girls Gone Wild show women that these behaviors are acceptable in society.

Using the whole "when a guy sleeps with a bunch of girls, he's a stud, but when a woman sleeps around, she's a whore" is not valid either.

The difference between the sexes is the reason why. Men TRY to have sex with women, while women ALLOW men to have sex with. If the women of the United States suddenly decided to cover up and dress like Amish women, would men stop trying to have sex with them? I doubt it. We would just have to work harder to know what they look like naked, instead of already knowing when we walk past them on the dance floor.

Most women do not strip because of some desire to do so. They do it because they have to. Sure they could get a dead end job working 40 hours a week, making $8 an hour, or they can work a few hours a night and make $1000 a week. And the only difference is, strangers that post on a local newspaper's message board might not respect their choices.

gazzettefan~
The difference is, one side is based on foundational principles. There's no two sides of the fence when you have a bedrock or foundation in which laws are made. This is why the laws of the land were established. The foundation of this country was laid out for particularly that reason. To protect the people against their own government! It's like these guys were 200 years ahead of their time. Our founding fathers chose to build the foundation for our American "structure" on rock, rather than sand. That's why it's no big secret that our society is so mixed up because the "principles" that should be rock solid have been compromised. It's like putting a gallon of sewage in 1,000,000 gallons of water...the water becomes sewage. Huge point here, it may not be what people want to hear or they way they'd like things, but, what is the alternative? Giving the government absolute power in deciding what's right for the American people? That would be communism. Not good!

Kleej,

What's interesting about your post is that it abounds with generalities adoptable by either side of this issue.

Quam~
Those last two post by you were fantastic!
You are so right. Here's the problem with our politicians doing the fighting for us..... What are they fighting for?? For too many years it's been for the good of the few and not the good of many. There are too many left wing groups who are out to destroy the foundational laws that this country was built on. Why? Because it doesn't fit their agenda. It doesn't fit into their lifestyle. It's not their "truth". The more people go whining to our government to take care of their problems, the more these modern day intellects with their new version of "truth" win. "Principles" are timeless! When you compromise them, you weaken foundations and eventually, collapse is inevitable. That's what we're seeing in this country. There are several other countries whom we should've learned our lesson from, yet, we just keep whittling away.

maybe there arent better looking stripers that have diginity

see article Man charged in prostitution probe

For all of those whe mentioned "but it is just lap dances"

Guess you were WRONG

Everyone should review the Declaration of Independence, perhaps we wouldn't be in the state we are in if more people were willing to do what it states.

It's up to the people to revolt, in the beginning, we were revolting against Britain, now we should revolt against our own government. If the people aren't willing to fight for what they believe in, why should we expect the politicians?

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Kleej, nicely stated! I am often attempting to understand but not condone differences in lifestyle. It is a complicated tightrope to walk.

johndoe:
That's a great point! Like I said, it comes to the individual. If they were taught at all how to have any self respect and respect for others, they usually find a way to live a life of value and pass it on to their children. Somewhere along the line, honor, duty, integrity, character and courage have been lost in our culture. I'm one of those who needed to be reminded of that. I'm reminded everyday and I've taken an active role in not judging others and starting with myself. I need to keep myself in check and stop being the judge of others. Just when we think we have someone else figured out, we get another reality check and find out we need to improve ourselves .. My mission in life is to "lift up" others and do my best to lead them to what I know has helped me and blessed so many others that have struggles in their life. If I can help one person, it's worth every struggle. God bless!

"All due respect, their dignity is being sold out. Why do people sell themselves out?"

Are you talking about prostitutes or politicians?

garyprimer says:Prostitutes aren't purchased, their services are. You don't get to keep them.
-------------------------------
All due respect, their dignity is being sold out. Why do people sell themselves out? There is no dignity taking one's clothes off for anyone except their husband or wife! It's called the family foundation of core values.
There really is such a thing as "character".
We shouldn't have to rely on government mandates on everything we do! Everytime a new modern age intellects comes to the forefront with their own truth on the way things should be, we lose another piece of our tradition of core values. Principles are never compromised. When this happens, our society pays the price. Everytime someone goes to the govt. and whines that this isn't politically correct or doesn't benefit my cause, it give the govt. another crusade to add more laws and more power over the people it governs. We as a society need to start teaching our young the good morals and stop this erosion of society before it's too late! If we, THE PEOPLE don't step it up and come together as a community of people who can at least respect each other and live amongst each other without violating each others space we're doomed. Everytime we ask the government to step in, we give them more power. Power over the people. We all need to wake up!

garyprimer~

Yes, you are right if this discussion went that way (slavery), boy would the talk start!! I do want to clarify, I don't have anything against strip clubs, as long as they are ran in a legal and tasteful way. I do still believe that anyone who chooses to strip has underlining issues, but that is for them to discover....we as a society can only help those who help themselves. As far as lap dancing goes, I truely don't see what the problem is there as long as it is treated in a compliance way. But I can see how that could potentially be dangerous for the girl giving it. Just because John doe pays the money required, doesn't mean he passed a sexual preditor screening. And with the physical contact, that could esculate the desire of a preditor to attack.

They took all the booze out of the abandoned Liquor store, and now they want to take the Prostitutes out of MeeMees! There is nothing left in Janesville for Kids to do anymore now that the cops took these two places away!!!!! LOL

Optimism,
No that was not a dig at you, I enjoy your posts and enjoy the discussion here. That was a generic question for all and I should have posted that question separately- sorry for the misunderstanding.

I do agree with you that if legal, many of these things would make things worse and I know that we also agree in that even if legal certain activities can be bad for society.

Have a nice day-

gazettefan: WE FINALLY TOTALLY AGREE ON SOMETHING!!!

Thank you for stating your position. It is definitely a part of the conversation that was missing.

This point should be made: People are supposed to acquire and possess the skills required to develop satisfying sexual relationships.

The existence of brothels and prostitutes is evidence that there are some people out there who have failed in this requirement.

To be lax about brothels (and especially to make prostitution legal) would only increase the number of people who are deficient in developing healthy sexual relationships.

according to this link: http://www.channel3000.com/news/15718321...
"Authorities said they are investigating claims of inappropriate contact, but not necessarily sex, between dancers and customers for money at the club."

This was a much better report of the investigation and is not malicious.

You are right, many prostitutes are slaves. I don't think that I am quite old enough to remember slavery. Now there's a subject that could keep this thread going for a long time.

garyprimer....youare also right! Their services are what is being baught. But if it were to be legal, I'm not so sure that is how it remain...remember slavery?

GIVE A HOOT...You are right!! Our society IS spiralling out of control, I totally agree. All I am asking is, can you deny that if these things were legitamately legal, wouldn't our society be EVEN WORSE? At least that is how I see it. Although, all of us have our own stance, there is a logical way to look at this. You are right, I don't have an answer to your question as far as age of patrons, I am hoping you weren't putting in a dig at me?! I think that the only way an acureate assessment of the average age of a patron would be to take an anonomous survey, don't you?

garyprimer, sometimes a john gets to keep something.

Optimism,
Our society is spiraling out of control even with these laws in place. Sometimes just because it's legal doesn't always mean that it's accpetable to a community. I don't think that this place is acceptable to the community. Hallbach is responsible for the operation of this place and I don't think that it's much of a stretch to give him at least some accountability.

I wondering about the two men arrested. Do most customers come from out of town? Are there many in that age group or is there a variation with respect to age? I don't expect Optimism to have these answers but if anyone does I'm curious

Prostitutes aren't purchased, their services are. You don't get to keep them.

Why on earth would you use the analogy of girls in the clubs are lap-dancing for free to justify lap dances at a strip club? The key word is "free". If you are going to back up this philosophy, then you would also have to compare the average "free" ho to the paid prostitute. It is not against the law to be premiscuous, it is against the law to be paid for being premiscuous . And if the righteous would stop for just a minute and stop blaming Halbach of whoever and see that when "addictions", i.e. sex, drugs, etc.. become legal to purchase, our society would snowball out of control. Look at the amount of alcoholism that effects the economy....just imagine if it were legal to purchase drugs that give you a bigger and better high then a cocktail, or if it were legal to purchase sex! A woman, or male prostitute would become a non-human and would lose all respect and rights of a human being. They would become tangible, therefore, disposable. It would no longer be taboo to practice these things, therefore, the rates of addiction would esculate, and so would crime. You need to look at this logically, not selfishly.

The thing is, they are considering what amounts to a lap dance, prostitution. And I believe that is wrong. The only difference between a lap dance and what happens on the dance floor at Quotes on a Friday is, the girls at Quotes are giving it away for free.

I guess the lesson here is, if you're going to act in a sexual manner, in public, make sure you are getting paid in the form of free drinks from men, and not straight up $20 bills.

Also, the strippers, aren't going to get wasted and go home with these men, they are going to spend 20 minutes with them, do their dance, and that's that.

Also, I've only been to a strip club I think 3 times, and have NEVER had a lap dance. So don't think I'm a frequenter of these establishments. I just simply think this is a witch hunt against Halbach. And the girls are caught in the middle of a personal vendetta.

Thanks for the input. Oh, and for the record, I am not gay, not that there's anything wrong with that.

garyprimer, some of us are taking a break from another blog while haeight researches what the Magna Carta says about smoking in bars.

gayprimer- also just read artical Beloit women arrested there too

gayprimer- if you havent read it yet-

another man arrested article

GAZETTEFAN...I can accept that there would be a posiblity that strippers would strip with the motivation being backed by ego. Although, I believe that in time, if this were the case, that stripper with the ego would remove themselves from the situation being it would become evident that the attention would not be all hers. Yes, I can see how the attention of a bunch of men would be rewarding at first, but I don't think that after being cat called and treated like a purchase for any amount of time would be something someone who has any amount of self worth would want to continue. I am sure there is always that one nymph that might need that type of profession to get as much relations as they possibly can...but I think that would be rare. But, yes, I can see your point.

Ok, WHO smiles in their mugshot???

attorney- okay stop ripping on spelling- you say gazette fan miss spelled but in same sentance you use the would didja- didja learnt tha fro bluee collor comedy tour???

parden me attorneyatlarge--
I would like to disagree with your women stay home craP- IT ISNT THAT WAY anymore- I am sure there are alot of daddies at home and moms out working. I make approx $20k more a year than hubby so shut your trap about calling people "prostitutes" cause theyre married blabla bla crap. we didnt just get married so we could LIVE off a husband

giveahoot Mar 26, 2008 at 6:41 a.m, re: that post. Thanks for echoing that this whole low-esteem thing is at least to some degree a bunch of baloney and nothing more than a sales pitch.

optimism, I didn't say all strippers and prostitutes are ego-tripping, but you have to at least consider the possiblility that some of them are.

Yes, paisleydaddy, without any proof, men are singled out for all the problems that occur in families. Also, notice how for a lot of people on this blog, a woman would never strip or prostitute were it not for her father.

ms....sassy, it's not just the direct problem that "medications" cause. The medications are the greatest indicator that the talking therapy is a bunch of hooey.

All this stuff mostly serves to grease palms.

you missed my point. I'm not surprised.

ekim8404, "So the issue is much larger than women and their self esteem issues or single motherhood..." You are SO right!!! The issue, IMO, is the general view by men that men have power and to have power is to have control. Men approaching men for sexual favors in exchange for money brings to the surface the real question: What is a REAL man? If someone can answer that question better than Kleej's comment (Mar 25, 2008 at 3:46 p.m.), please enlighten me. Has our society been reduced to having an agenda consisting only of the next sexual encounter???

These girls and whether or not a close lapdance constitutes prostitution aside, don't think for a moment that women are the only ones getting paid for sexual favors....for us folks in the backwater here, you don't see it much, but go to any decent size city and it's easy to find. Many years of living in major cities around the country...especially out west, and I got my share of offers from older "well to do" gentleman while I was walking downtown on my way to class...and yes I'm a guy, and no I'm not gay. So the issue is much larger than women and their self esteem issues or single motherhood...though they all play a roll.

pizzaman, I think you (and men like you) are the very reason that we have societal issues such as women being treated poorly. I've said it before and I will say it again: until attitudes change, nothing changes. and men, NOT ALL, but those such as yourself, view women as possessions and objects here for your enjoyment and viewing pleasure. That is an error in thinking. Either step up to the plate to improve the community or go back into your cave, please.

The criminalization of sexual behavior between consenting adults, and the the non-legality of prostitution over much of the US is only another way of your overbearing government to keep you in check. It's about $$ always has always will. The "Conservative" bible thumpers are always the first to champion the moral high ground, then get caught in a hotel room with their pants down, or in the strip club getting a lap dance...puullleease. The exchange of money for sexual acts will NEVER stop...EVER. The time and money spent on "catching these bad people" are perpetrated by the same folks that bring you "the war on drugs"....yeah, how's that going? What we have is a perpetual nanny state with checks in place to make sure that your income stays where it's at and what you do make you give to uncle sam so he can bust strippers giving lap dances at a juice bar.

Optimism, I agree with you. There is a subtle difference between sympathy and empathy, even though the dictionary defines them in much the same way. When you provide sympathy you are relating to that persons pain and allowing your feelings to cloud your judgment (emotionally charged response)...When you have empathy you are still feeling their pain but not allowing it to change how you communicate with that person (knowledge/experience-related response). I cannot empathize with the women who have been arrested BECAUSE of the method they have chosen to earn money; however, I CAN empathize with their belief that their bodies could help them earn money. In other words, society has been “legally” selling sex and communicating that women’s naked bodies are a thing to “get” through all forms of media. It doesn’t change my belief system or change me. It hasn’t affected me to think that I will now use my body to make money (or that it is a good choice). I have an understanding of WHY they made the choice they did. I have never said that I believe stripping or prostitution (or lap dances) is a good idea, which is what being sympathetic would suggest. I have been consistent in suggesting that there are probably underlying reasons that these women are stripping. I have also been consistent in reporting that stripping is a symptom (not an excuse) of society’s view of women-what we are "supposed to do" and what our earning potential is.

ms...sassy....I appreciate your posts. When I asked you if you attained your knowledge through a book, my purpose was for you to maybe see that you may be looking at people in these situations with sympathy, NOT empathy. Sympathy, in my opinion is more dangerous to people of jaded pasts than the past itself. If the person remain weak and choses to take the easy route of not helping one's self, then the person will feed off of the sympathy others place upon them. I do not judge these girls, I have empathy for them. Not that I have ever stripped or prostituted, but I have practiced self destructive behavoir, and it took my soul to choose to stop the behavoir, and I had to stop listening to all the people that kept my childhood alive by blaming my behavoir on my past. I do believe that there should be therapy for these women, but I just want to be sure that they receive therapy that is appropriat. A person who feels scorned by their childhood becomes a very good manipulator and can in a very short time bring people around them into their world of, I deserve this...because this happened to me. I know this to be true, I have done it. I just want to make people aware of that before they throw around sympathy.

GazetteFan...I was following your ideals and agreeing with most of your thoughts until you said that strippers would bare their rearends as a result of an inflated ego. An inflated ego would in my eyes, would lead to woman knowing that a person needs to EARN the right to see what they have to offer. After a stretch of time of stripping, it may appear that these girls have an inflated ego, but that would only be a result of what these men tell them with their George Washingtons. I am not a person to allow behavior to be justified by excuses, as you should remember from my previous posts being I have had my own closet full of skeletons to bury. I believe you need to be responsible for your own destiny and not be pacified by society's need for justification. But I do believe that any self destructive path is an effect of an underlying problem. A person's instinct is not to harm one's self. But after a period of consoleing and blame shifting it is rewarding to remain the victim. It is much easier to shift blame on something that does not exist (the past...which is gone) instead of living in the present and making a "new future".

All, I have one brief comment on low self esteem. I know plenty of people who have been labeled with this and one trait they all share is a bloated ego. There aren't many people who are more selfish than the "low self-esteemer"

This self-esteem thing is the greatest sales pitch that the shrinks have ever thrown out. Most people would be better of without this label but it makes for good cash for the right person

Semper fi,
You must be a regular at screemin meenies. If you think that the lifestyle of a stripper or a hooker is acceptable you are entitled to your opinion, but you are in the minority and not in agreement with the norms and rules set down by much of society.

There have been some in this forum who have been judging these women, but nearly all of that comes from the idiots who comment on their appearance and most of us probably agree that those posters aren't worth the time it takes to read their comment.

There has been a lively discussion on lifestyle and choices and what contributes to self-destructive behavior and society's attitude towards women in general. I will just say that if you can only see judging in all of that then you are really limiting your comprehension as you read this. That point goes right along with your stated opinion that stripping or prostituion is some kind of economic necessity, that's bunk plain and simple.

I truly believe that there are many who posted here who would like to see all of these womens lives take a turn for the better. If you are of the opinion that they don't need to then I fear that you don't share that sentiment

This is ridiculous, what happened to the pursuit of happiness, everyday the powers that be take more and more of our freedom from us. They tell us what we should eat then enforce it by saying restaurants can only use trans fat to cook the foods that you and I choose to eat but they allow big tobacco to sell us death in a pack. They control the images we see, the news we read, and the music we hear. How long will it take us to realize that our freedom is slowly but surely being taking away from us. For those of you who criticize these women and they families because you claim that you and yours are so God fearing then you must remember what the Bible says right? If not it goes a lil something like this(Let he without sin cast the first stone)it's not Christ like to be so judgemental and hypocritical when you and yours are only human too bound to the same flesh as they are. Futhermore how can you blame their families for anything and not look at society itself the very same society which you yourself are a part of, you say how so? How can society be blamed for anything? Well look at how kids who are different in the school systems get treated. They're bullied, picked on, and harassed repeatedly. Then they're asked to grow up in this world and be a productive and loving adult neverminding the effects society had on them as a innocent child. All you who point the finger carry the blame also just the same as the parents cause with the understanding that you all have I can pretty much bet that you were the bullies in school or either the ones who thought you were better than everyone else. It's sick when we as a country can tolerate hatred and greed but can't understand a woman or a man who is lest fortunate then ourselves doing what they need to do to survive and how can the judicial system justify prostitution as a stripper touching a man whose paid for a lap dance if there's no sexual or oral intercourse then it's just two consenting adults doing what they want to do, but only in Janesville can that be considered illegal. It's a joke.

Thank you, kleej.

Thats something everyone needs to read.

pailey~
Understood what you are saying. I believe that a household led by the man who is truly living up to what it means to be a man is the key here. If a man is leading his family with the purest of core values in mind, divorce or single parenthood is out of the equation. A man as head of his family, should be treating his wife like a queen. I'm not talking about buying lavish gifts or spending money on her. I'm talking about making sure she's loved the way she deserves to be. No conditions. No easy outs. No excuses. If something isn't right between the husband and wife, a man takes ultimate responsibility and makes sure it's taken care of. A man's wife should be edified as if she walks on water! (Especially in front of the children) That's what God intended for man was the ultimate gift of a beautiful woman, his wife. What I'm saying is, it's too easy in society to give up on something. Especially something as sacred as marriage. Marriage is unconditional. It's a lifetime commitment. I understand sometimes things don't work out, however, it's never going to always be easy or convenient, but always worth the effort. Love can move mountains. Especially that between a husband and wife. The example the husband and wife set for the children are the window to the childrens future which ultimately is a big factor in the future of our society. It's got to start at home! People who complain or whine about the way our culture is and the way people are these days need only look in the mirror. Because as MEN in society, it's happening on our watch and if we're going to turn this downward spiral around, it's going to take men of character and integrity who are willing to lead and be the example for others to follow. Please understand, I had to learn to think like this. It didn't get taught to me by my parents. Infact, my father didn't teach respect towards my mother the way he should have, by EXAMPLE! I was never abused, but, I was never taught to be a man. I was taught to be more the "boss" than anything. It's not the way it works! A wife is a lifetime partner. If a man is truly the LEADER in his home, his wife will be a happy lifetime partner. I thank God for leading me towards the truth. I'm so thankful for my beautiful wife and children. It's a privledge for me to lead them. God bless you all!

I don't know about any other fathers in this blog, but I'm quite tired and offended by hearing about the 'dads' always being the one to run off any be irresponsible about their children. True, there are a lot of fathers out there that are complete pukes, don't get me wrong. It's just sad to see that people all-to-often side with the mom's. Unfortunately, in most cases, mom's get stuck with a child and a father that wants nothing to do with them. But what about the fathers that take the responsibility and the mom runs off? What about the fathers like myself that have their child more than the mother and support them in every aspect, yet still have to pay child support because the mom isn't taking the responsibility? The child support office even goes the same way, siding with the 'moms' just because they are the moms.

Sorry to go off topic, but I think we need to refer to 'parents' in general as opposed to moms or dads individually.

for clarification: I am not someone who calls another human being a "mental case". The term was thrown out there by gazettefan. Every person is on a different level of mental or emotional stability by the mere fact that everyone IS unique and an individual. This does not mean, however, that there is no one else who feels the same feelings as I do. We have individual interpretations of each event in our lives. Those interpretations either help to develop or destroy our capacity to properly process our thoughts, actions and core beliefs.

jsvlparkergrad and attorneyatlarge: THANK YOU!!! It is great to know that others here "get" the dilemma that so many women (girls?) face and are subjected to simply because they were born with breasts and a vagina! Yet we continue to blame the victim for the actions of rapists and pedophiles.

The fear and humiliation is further amplified by the legal system. The fact that the perpetrator is most often times a relative, friend or partner encourages police, attorneys and judges (and gazette extra posters) to minimize the crime and expect the victims to "just get over it".

Odd- the burden is on women to choose not to strip... instead of putting the burden of morality on men to not patronize a strip club.

Truly shows that either our society expects women to be moral or simply lets men off the hook for their actions.
I think it is both.

ms_sassy_wi:
I have read all this and I really can see that some people here just don't get it. When you are a child raised by a parent/parents who continually put you down, you are most likely not going to have good self esteem going into adulthood. Or, perhaps the child was sexually abused, and learned over time that the only way to make "daddy" or "uncle Bob" happy and appreciate you is by being their sex toy and then you get "rewarded" by their approval. Or even being ignored by parent(s) makes a child learn to seek approval and gain self-esteem by looking for it elsewhere, without guidance. I would bet that the majority of these women were in one of those situations. When a person is brought up this way, the low self-esteem is pretty much ingrained and cannot be dealt with by just telling themselves to "snap out of it". These women do not suffer from too much self-esteem. They learn to bolster their low self-esteem by seeking approval from the males that will reinforce the way they learned to receive attention and praise, and will use the only "assets" they believe they possess, which is their bodies.
I think therapy is one way that these women can learn to look at themselves from the outside, and to learn that they have many assets wi