It's about the one on West Court.

i know this probably does not mean much since I'm posting this so late, but the dairy queen on racine is not ran by a molester. A girl I went to school with's parents run it. So please don't post something on here that is a rumor.

So are they people back to work? Now I know why all the people got laid off a GM.

So where is Jennifer Lowell's picture? I remember her from grade school, moved back from Phonix last year just in time to get arrested. I did not know she was a working girl. Kind of funny, I seen her in Walmart with her high heels, and fur coat. She approuched me, and we made small talk about her begin back in town, and gave me her number.That did not ring a bell. I guess I will alway think in a small town way. Not being exposed to hookers.Jennifer Reik has great photo appeal, to bad she is a hooker.

I can't believe the cops in Janesville. leave Halbach alone. your just trying to run him out of town. and any resedent of Janesville who thinks the police are doing a good job on this shoud be ashamed. lap dances are not prostitution. rubbing your breast or butt on someone is not prostitution. prostitution is someone performing sex for money. not shaking her little tush on a customer. get real janesville police and your big city california sargent. get some of them street corner crack dealers all over the place in the fourth ward. leave Halbach and his dancers alone.

As I posted on another page:

to anyone whom I have inadvertently hurt, I sincerely apologize.

going forward, I will attempt to clearly state that I am in no way referring to this group of women, nor any particular woman (as that would be morally and ethically WRONG) as being a victim of assault (or of anything). I am attempting to voice my opinion that there is the possibility that there may be issues that the average citizen may not consider in their analysis of the situation and in response to the article. I certainly hope that before people judge someone else's behavior, they will look (long and hard) at their own behavior.

With that, I wish you a good day.

there is, imho, a HUGE difference between acceptance and forgiveness. I suppose I can forgive Kip for the things he has done to the young boys in Janesville and Edgerton. However, I can't accept that he is putting himself (and more children) at risk of repeating the offenses that landed him in jail (during ice cream off-season, of course). I think that he still has demons inside of him that will probably persist as long as he lives. Working with young children (boys, primarily) is just asking for history to repeat itself...or searches for ways to "get around the system" when the urge strikes. like I said, it's only my opinion.

There's way too much atonement / forgiveness going on in the Catholic Church.

More like organized criminal behavior and conspriratorial coverups worthy of application of the RICO statuetes.

Poor Jesus!!!

Are you referring to the Catholic Church?

Regarding Frosty Freeze et al: What would Christ say? Are we too Godlike to allow for atonement?

attorney at large, but Dairy Queen doesn't have "Twinkle Cote"

Here's something new. I think I'll give it a try.
Come closer you! I like to see what I buy...
The usual price, for just a slice of your pie

[FANTINE]
I don't want you. No, no, m'sieur, let me go.

[BAMATABOIS]
Is this a trick? I won't pay more!

[FANTINE]
No, not at all.

[BAMATABOIS]
You've got some nerve, you little whore
You've got some gall.
It's the same with a tart as it is with a grocer
The customer sees what he gets in advance
It's not for the whore to say `yes sir' or `no sir'
It's not for the harlot to pick and to choose
Or lead me to a dance!

[Javert enters, accompanied by constables]

[JAVERT]
Tell me quickly what's the story
Who saw what and why and where
Let him give a full description
Let him answer to Javert!
In this nest of whores and vipers
Let one speak who saw it all
Who laid hands on this good man here?
What's the substance of this brawl?

[BAMATABOIS]
Javert, would you believe it
I was crossing from the park
When this prostitute attacked me
You can see she left her mark

[JAVERT]
She will answer for her actions
When you make a full report
You may rest assured, M'sieur,
That she will answer to the court.
FANTINE]
There's a child who sorely needs me
Please M'sieur, she's but that high
Holy God, is there no mercy?
If I go to jail she'll die!

[JAVERT]
I have heard such protestations
Every day for twenty years
Let's have no more explanations
Save your breath and save your tears
`Honest work, just reward,
That's the way to please the Lord.'

[Fantine gives a last despairing cry as she is arrested by the constables. Valjean emerges from the crowd]

[VALJEAN]
A moment of your time, Javert
I do believe this woman's tale

[JAVERT]

[VALJEAN]
You've done your duty, let her be
She needs a doctor, not a jail.

A tale once told and eloquently explained my Les Mis....

gazettefan, we are in agreement again! I don't understand why abuse by catholic priests was ALLOWED to continue as long as it has (virtually since the beginning of time)...

again, grooming...I have seen taped confessions by people who specifically went into ministry or other helping fields in order to groom their preferred victims. It's just SO WRONG.

No, on the Clinton thing.

The baffling tolerance toward the ongoing criminality in Catholic Church inspires tolerance for that same criminality in other areas of American life.

The Church is supposed to be the cure for society's ills; but in this case it is the cause.

thanks, gazettefan, I was probably as surprised to read that you agreed with me as you were! :D

Now about that mother...do her kids get candy from the Clinton janitor/busdriver, too? It's only a date...it's ice cream...?

NO, IT'S NOT...IT'S CHILD MOLESTATION!!

and btw: what "it" is with pervs and ice cream is called GROOMING...

I agree with attorney.... and ms....sassy (What are the odds that would happen at the same time?)

My first thought on why people would put money in that guy's pocket is that they don't read the paper or listen to WCLO.

But I asked a mother of three children, who does read the paper, why she buys ice cream there and she said: "The guy only asked a kid for a date."

I agree with you whole-heartedly, attorneyatlarge! It is exasperating to see people giving their money to him! I WILL not go there! From the first time I met him, he gave me the creeps and I had my suspicions about him...then my suspicions were confirmed. I try not to judge a person, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's very likely a duck!

I'm amazed that Janesville is flipping out about what consenting adults do in their spare time- yet have no qualms about a convicted child molestor running an ICE CREAM SHOP.
I can't believe it every time I drive past there and I see parents giving their hard earned money to a guy that molested children!!!!

Kip Lecher owns Frosty Freeze.

I guess the morals of people can be bought with cheap ice cream... come on Dairy Queen is just down the street!

Jim Beam me up.

Returned to K-PAX.

Marvelous use of the taxpayer dollar. What's the total cost of this courageous operation? Itemized please - individuals, steps in the operation, planning, stakeouts, transportation, processing, court costs, etc etc. . .

Try to guess, and guess whether we will ever find out. Who authorizes this stuff, thinks up the noble campaigns? And WHY?

The post below is for Kleej.

And that applies to this issue how.....?

Wow! Are you folks still in here arguing about this stuff?! Come on out and see what you are missing.

gazettefan~
Actually, if you want the brutally honest truth, when I speak of foundational truth, the founders of this country were smart enough to build the foundation of this country based on Judeo-Christian principles; you know, "thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, thou shall not lie....etc because if that's the bedrock of society and people are held to those standards, which just happens to be the way people should live, there is none of this redirect that occurs in our society from these so called intellects who have their own form of value systems. Countries fall under these patterns. It's documented through history. We are no exception here in the U.S....we have "barbarians" within our walls that have and will run this country into the ground!
DEFINITION OF "BARBARIAN"= a person who lives by "power and pleasure" rather than by "principle"

OK, then we're disagreeing as to whether prostitution is going on at Screamin' MeeMees.

("Getting wasted with random guy" may be just the courting process.)

If they are just stripping, I see your point.

But when it comes to the argument of whether or not they are prostitutes , I'm leaning toward the belief that they are prostitutes.

Can't see the cops going through all the trouble otherwise. Specific charges have been filed against johns too.

What I'm saying is, the girls at screaming mee mees, at least AT screaming mee mees, aren't getting wasted and going home with random guys on a regular basis. These girls, aren't prostitutes, they are strippers. Performing acts that girls who AREN'T strippers perform in PUBLIC.

And after the purchase of drinks, sex with a stranger eventually happens in the absence of any social skills?

If the answer is yes, are you arguing against the need for prostitutes?

You obviously haven't been to a bar in a while. The music is so loud socializing is almost non-existent. It's basically a bunch of sweaty drunk people grinding their "genitals" on each other.

When sex occurs at some time after the purchase of drinks, social skill is required at some point in the entire process.

Social skill is that thing that's absent from the direct purchase of sex.

johns need as much help as the prostitutes. But not from each other.

Kleej,

You start out stating ...laws of the land were established..." Then you say "[the laws were established] to protect people from their own government!" It can't be overlooked that these two things are NOT precisley the same.

Laws were and have been established, certainly; but not exclusiveley to protect the people from the government. Can you really tell me that you do not approve of (and benefit from) many of our current laws that protect you from certain kinds of behavior by people who are not members of the government? I doubt it.

Again, your allusions here seem too general to work excusely for your point.

You rely too much on what you refer to as "foundation" as a way of saying anything goes. You rely on it to the point that you seem to be defending the legalization of prostition. Maybe you believe that in some way prostitution is protected by the right to pursue happiness (not only the johns' but the prostitutes' too). The people who live in that neighboorhood also have a right to pursue happiness. In this case, whose right to pursue happiness overides the other? I'd opt for the people in the neighborhood. (The location of the place in question is not the only point of contention here. State the other points of contention, if you want.)

You cannot possibly reject all forms of government intervention. How eager would you be to patronize a bar or restaurant were there no health codes?

And this claim by you and others that we are speeding down the road (or on a slippery slope) toward communism only tells me that the time or effort has not been taken to understand what life is like in a communist state, especially compared to here.

As alienated and disgruntled with our country as Lee Oswald was, he soon soured on life in Russia and the Soviet Union (and he was a committed communist). That's why he returned to the U.S. with plans for making his new home in Castro's Cuba. He got sidetracked before he could realize his dream of living in that communist paradise. But I don't think we needed his inpute to tell us what a miserable place Cuba is.

What's overlooked here is that while the process is not perfect: The majority of our laws result from the populace using the government to enacts its will.

The idea of the "slippery slope" has hit a slippery slope of its own.

To clarify, or back up my original point to Optimism.

I was using that analogy to show, that whether it's a strip club or a bar, in one way or another the girls are getting "paid".

In the strip club, it's with a twenty dollar bill. In the bar, it's in the form of free drinks.

Now, I don't claim to be the smartest guy here, but I'm pretty sure getting $20 bills shoved into your g-string will not contribute to impaired judgment.

If anything is contributing to the downfall of our society, it's not strip clubs. It's the influences in modern entertainment that teach young girls that it's ok to flaunt their sexuality to get what they want. Things like MTV and Girls Gone Wild show women that these behaviors are acceptable in society.

Using the whole "when a guy sleeps with a bunch of girls, he's a stud, but when a woman sleeps around, she's a whore" is not valid either.

The difference between the sexes is the reason why. Men TRY to have sex with women, while women ALLOW men to have sex with. If the women of the United States suddenly decided to cover up and dress like Amish women, would men stop trying to have sex with them? I doubt it. We would just have to work harder to know what they look like naked, instead of already knowing when we walk past them on the dance floor.

Most women do not strip because of some desire to do so. They do it because they have to. Sure they could get a dead end job working 40 hours a week, making $8 an hour, or they can work a few hours a night and make $1000 a week. And the only difference is, strangers that post on a local newspaper's message board might not respect their choices.

gazzettefan~
The difference is, one side is based on foundational principles. There's no two sides of the fence when you have a bedrock or foundation in which laws are made. This is why the laws of the land were established. The foundation of this country was laid out for particularly that reason. To protect the people against their own government! It's like these guys were 200 years ahead of their time. Our founding fathers chose to build the foundation for our American "structure" on rock, rather than sand. That's why it's no big secret that our society is so mixed up because the "principles" that should be rock solid have been compromised. It's like putting a gallon of sewage in 1,000,000 gallons of water...the water becomes sewage. Huge point here, it may not be what people want to hear or they way they'd like things, but, what is the alternative? Giving the government absolute power in deciding what's right for the American people? That would be communism. Not good!

Kleej,

What's interesting about your post is that it abounds with generalities adoptable by either side of this issue.

Quam~
Those last two post by you were fantastic!
You are so right. Here's the problem with our politicians doing the fighting for us..... What are they fighting for?? For too many years it's been for the good of the few and not the good of many. There are too many left wing groups who are out to destroy the foundational laws that this country was built on. Why? Because it doesn't fit their agenda. It doesn't fit into their lifestyle. It's not their "truth". The more people go whining to our government to take care of their problems, the more these modern day intellects with their new version of "truth" win. "Principles" are timeless! When you compromise them, you weaken foundations and eventually, collapse is inevitable. That's what we're seeing in this country. There are several other countries whom we should've learned our lesson from, yet, we just keep whittling away.

Everyone should review the Declaration of Independence, perhaps we wouldn't be in the state we are in if more people were willing to do what it states.

It's up to the people to revolt, in the beginning, we were revolting against Britain, now we should revolt against our own government. If the people aren't willing to fight for what they believe in, why should we expect the politicians?

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Kleej, nicely stated! I am often attempting to understand but not condone differences in lifestyle. It is a complicated tightrope to walk.

johndoe:
That's a great point! Like I said, it comes to the individual. If they were taught at all how to have any self respect and respect for others, they usually find a way to live a life of value and pass it on to their children. Somewhere along the line, honor, duty, integrity, character and courage have been lost in our culture. I'm one of those who needed to be reminded of that. I'm reminded everyday and I've taken an active role in not judging others and starting with myself. I need to keep myself in check and stop being the judge of others. Just when we think we have someone else figured out, we get another reality check and find out we need to improve ourselves .. My mission in life is to "lift up" others and do my best to lead them to what I know has helped me and blessed so many others that have struggles in their life. If I can help one person, it's worth every struggle. God bless!

"All due respect, their dignity is being sold out. Why do people sell themselves out?"

Are you talking about prostitutes or politicians?

garyprimer says:Prostitutes aren't purchased, their services are. You don't get to keep them.
-------------------------------
All due respect, their dignity is being sold out. Why do people sell themselves out? There is no dignity taking one's clothes off for anyone except their husband or wife! It's called the family foundation of core values.
There really is such a thing as "character".
We shouldn't have to rely on government mandates on everything we do! Everytime a new modern age intellects comes to the forefront with their own truth on the way things should be, we lose another piece of our tradition of core values. Principles are never compromised. When this happens, our society pays the price. Everytime someone goes to the govt. and whines that this isn't politically correct or doesn't benefit my cause, it give the govt. another crusade to add more laws and more power over the people it governs. We as a society need to start teaching our young the good morals and stop this erosion of society before it's too late! If we, THE PEOPLE don't step it up and come together as a community of people who can at least respect each other and live amongst each other without violating each others space we're doomed. Everytime we ask the government to step in, we give them more power. Power over the people. We all need to wake up!

garyprimer~

Yes, you are right if this discussion went that way (slavery), boy would the talk start!! I do want to clarify, I don't have anything against strip clubs, as long as they are ran in a legal and tasteful way. I do still believe that anyone who chooses to strip has underlining issues, but that is for them to discover....we as a society can only help those who help themselves. As far as lap dancing goes, I truely don't see what the problem is there as long as it is treated in a compliance way. But I can see how that could potentially be dangerous for the girl giving it. Just because John doe pays the money required, doesn't mean he passed a sexual preditor screening. And with the physical contact, that could esculate the desire of a preditor to attack.

They took all the booze out of the abandoned Liquor store, and now they want to take the Prostitutes out of MeeMees! There is nothing left in Janesville for Kids to do anymore now that the cops took these two places away!!!!! LOL

Optimism,
No that was not a dig at you, I enjoy your posts and enjoy the discussion here. That was a generic question for all and I should have posted that question separately- sorry for the misunderstanding.

I do agree with you that if legal, many of these things would make things worse and I know that we also agree in that even if legal certain activities can be bad for society.

Have a nice day-

gazettefan: WE FINALLY TOTALLY AGREE ON SOMETHING!!!

Thank you for stating your position. It is definitely a part of the conversation that was missing.

This point should be made: People are supposed to acquire and possess the skills required to develop satisfying sexual relationships.

The existence of brothels and prostitutes is evidence that there are some people out there who have failed in this requirement.

To be lax about brothels (and especially to make prostitution legal) would only increase the number of people who are deficient in developing healthy sexual relationships.

according to this link: http://www.channel3000.com/news/15718321...
"Authorities said they are investigating claims of inappropriate contact, but not necessarily sex, between dancers and customers for money at the club."

This was a much better report of the investigation and is not malicious.

You are right, many prostitutes are slaves. I don't think that I am quite old enough to remember slavery. Now there's a subject that could keep this thread going for a long time.

garyprimer....youare also right! Their services are what is being baught. But if it were to be legal, I'm not so sure that is how it remain...remember slavery?

GIVE A HOOT...You are right!! Our society IS spiralling out of control, I totally agree. All I am asking is, can you deny that if these things were legitamately legal, wouldn't our society be EVEN WORSE? At least that is how I see it. Although, all of us have our own stance, there is a logical way to look at this. You are right, I don't have an answer to your question as far as age of patrons, I am hoping you weren't putting in a dig at me?! I think that the only way an acureate assessment of the average age of a patron would be to take an anonomous survey, don't you?

garyprimer, sometimes a john gets to keep something.

Optimism,
Our society is spiraling out of control even with these laws in place. Sometimes just because it's legal doesn't always mean that it's accpetable to a community. I don't think that this place is acceptable to the community. Hallbach is responsible for the operation of this place and I don't think that it's much of a stretch to give him at least some accountability.

I wondering about the two men arrested. Do most customers come from out of town? Are there many in that age group or is there a variation with respect to age? I don't expect Optimism to have these answers but if anyone does I'm curious

Prostitutes aren't purchased, their services are. You don't get to keep them.

Why on earth would you use the analogy of girls in the clubs are lap-dancing for free to justify lap dances at a strip club? The key word is "free". If you are going to back up this philosophy, then you would also have to compare the average "free" ho to the paid prostitute. It is not against the law to be premiscuous, it is against the law to be paid for being premiscuous . And if the righteous would stop for just a minute and stop blaming Halbach of whoever and see that when "addictions", i.e. sex, drugs, etc.. become legal to purchase, our society would snowball out of control. Look at the amount of alcoholism that effects the economy....just imagine if it were legal to purchase drugs that give you a bigger and better high then a cocktail, or if it were legal to purchase sex! A woman, or male prostitute would become a non-human and would lose all respect and rights of a human being. They would become tangible, therefore, disposable. It would no longer be taboo to practice these things, therefore, the rates of addiction would esculate, and so would crime. You need to look at this logically, not selfishly.

The thing is, they are considering what amounts to a lap dance, prostitution. And I believe that is wrong. The only difference between a lap dance and what happens on the dance floor at Quotes on a Friday is, the girls at Quotes are giving it away for free.

I guess the lesson here is, if you're going to act in a sexual manner, in public, make sure you are getting paid in the form of free drinks from men, and not straight up $20 bills.

Also, the strippers, aren't going to get wasted and go home with these men, they are going to spend 20 minutes with them, do their dance, and that's that.

Also, I've only been to a strip club I think 3 times, and have NEVER had a lap dance. So don't think I'm a frequenter of these establishments. I just simply think this is a witch hunt against Halbach. And the girls are caught in the middle of a personal vendetta.

Thanks for the input. Oh, and for the record, I am not gay, not that there's anything wrong with that.

garyprimer, some of us are taking a break from another blog while haeight researches what the Magna Carta says about smoking in bars.

GAZETTEFAN...I can accept that there would be a posiblity that strippers would strip with the motivation being backed by ego. Although, I believe that in time, if this were the case, that stripper with the ego would remove themselves from the situation being it would become evident that the attention would not be all hers. Yes, I can see how the attention of a bunch of men would be rewarding at first, but I don't think that after being cat called and treated like a purchase for any amount of time would be something someone who has any amount of self worth would want to continue. I am sure there is always that one nymph that might need that type of profession to get as much relations as they possibly can...but I think that would be rare. But, yes, I can see your point.

Ok, WHO smiles in their mugshot???

giveahoot Mar 26, 2008 at 6:41 a.m, re: that post. Thanks for echoing that this whole low-esteem thing is at least to some degree a bunch of baloney and nothing more than a sales pitch.

optimism, I didn't say all strippers and prostitutes are ego-tripping, but you have to at least consider the possiblility that some of them are.

Yes, paisleydaddy, without any proof, men are singled out for all the problems that occur in families. Also, notice how for a lot of people on this blog, a woman would never strip or prostitute were it not for her father.

ms....sassy, it's not just the direct problem that "medications" cause. The medications are the greatest indicator that the talking therapy is a bunch of hooey.

All this stuff mostly serves to grease palms.

you missed my point. I'm not surprised.

ekim8404, "So the issue is much larger than women and their self esteem issues or single motherhood..." You are SO right!!! The issue, IMO, is the general view by men that men have power and to have power is to have control. Men approaching men for sexual favors in exchange for money brings to the surface the real question: What is a REAL man? If someone can answer that question better than Kleej's comment (Mar 25, 2008 at 3:46 p.m.), please enlighten me. Has our society been reduced to having an agenda consisting only of the next sexual encounter???

These girls and whether or not a close lapdance constitutes prostitution aside, don't think for a moment that women are the only ones getting paid for sexual favors....for us folks in the backwater here, you don't see it much, but go to any decent size city and it's easy to find. Many years of living in major cities around the country...especially out west, and I got my share of offers from older "well to do" gentleman while I was walking downtown on my way to class...and yes I'm a guy, and no I'm not gay. So the issue is much larger than women and their self esteem issues or single motherhood...though they all play a roll.

pizzaman, I think you (and men like you) are the very reason that we have societal issues such as women being treated poorly. I've said it before and I will say it again: until attitudes change, nothing changes. and men, NOT ALL, but those such as yourself, view women as possessions and objects here for your enjoyment and viewing pleasure. That is an error in thinking. Either step up to the plate to improve the community or go back into your cave, please.

The criminalization of sexual behavior between consenting adults, and the the non-legality of prostitution over much of the US is only another way of your overbearing government to keep you in check. It's about $$ always has always will. The "Conservative" bible thumpers are always the first to champion the moral high ground, then get caught in a hotel room with their pants down, or in the strip club getting a lap dance...puullleease. The exchange of money for sexual acts will NEVER stop...EVER. The time and money spent on "catching these bad people" are perpetrated by the same folks that bring you "the war on drugs"....yeah, how's that going? What we have is a perpetual nanny state with checks in place to make sure that your income stays where it's at and what you do make you give to uncle sam so he can bust strippers giving lap dances at a juice bar.

Optimism, I agree with you. There is a subtle difference between sympathy and empathy, even though the dictionary defines them in much the same way. When you provide sympathy you are relating to that persons pain and allowing your feelings to cloud your judgment (emotionally charged response)...When you have empathy you are still feeling their pain but not allowing it to change how you communicate with that person (knowledge/experience-related response). I cannot empathize with the women who have been arrested BECAUSE of the method they have chosen to earn money; however, I CAN empathize with their belief that their bodies could help them earn money. In other words, society has been “legally” selling sex and communicating that women’s naked bodies are a thing to “get” through all forms of media. It doesn’t change my belief system or change me. It hasn’t affected me to think that I will now use my body to make money (or that it is a good choice). I have an understanding of WHY they made the choice they did. I have never said that I believe stripping or prostitution (or lap dances) is a good idea, which is what being sympathetic would suggest. I have been consistent in suggesting that there are probably underlying reasons that these women are stripping. I have also been consistent in reporting that stripping is a symptom (not an excuse) of society’s view of women-what we are "supposed to do" and what our earning potential is.

ms...sassy....I appreciate your posts. When I asked you if you attained your knowledge through a book, my purpose was for you to maybe see that you may be looking at people in these situations with sympathy, NOT empathy. Sympathy, in my opinion is more dangerous to people of jaded pasts than the past itself. If the person remain weak and choses to take the easy route of not helping one's self, then the person will feed off of the sympathy others place upon them. I do not judge these girls, I have empathy for them. Not that I have ever stripped or prostituted, but I have practiced self destructive behavoir, and it took my soul to choose to stop the behavoir, and I had to stop listening to all the people that kept my childhood alive by blaming my behavoir on my past. I do believe that there should be therapy for these women, but I just want to be sure that they receive therapy that is appropriat. A person who feels scorned by their childhood becomes a very good manipulator and can in a very short time bring people around them into their world of, I deserve this...because this happened to me. I know this to be true, I have done it. I just want to make people aware of that before they throw around sympathy.

GazetteFan...I was following your ideals and agreeing with most of your thoughts until you said that strippers would bare their rearends as a result of an inflated ego. An inflated ego would in my eyes, would lead to woman knowing that a person needs to EARN the right to see what they have to offer. After a stretch of time of stripping, it may appear that these girls have an inflated ego, but that would only be a result of what these men tell them with their George Washingtons. I am not a person to allow behavior to be justified by excuses, as you should remember from my previous posts being I have had my own closet full of skeletons to bury. I believe you need to be responsible for your own destiny and not be pacified by society's need for justification. But I do believe that any self destructive path is an effect of an underlying problem. A person's instinct is not to harm one's self. But after a period of consoleing and blame shifting it is rewarding to remain the victim. It is much easier to shift blame on something that does not exist (the past...which is gone) instead of living in the present and making a "new future".

All, I have one brief comment on low self esteem. I know plenty of people who have been labeled with this and one trait they all share is a bloated ego. There aren't many people who are more selfish than the "low self-esteemer"

This self-esteem thing is the greatest sales pitch that the shrinks have ever thrown out. Most people would be better of without this label but it makes for good cash for the right person

Semper fi,
You must be a regular at screemin meenies. If you think that the lifestyle of a stripper or a hooker is acceptable you are entitled to your opinion, but you are in the minority and not in agreement with the norms and rules set down by much of society.

There have been some in this forum who have been judging these women, but nearly all of that comes from the idiots who comment on their appearance and most of us probably agree that those posters aren't worth the time it takes to read their comment.

There has been a lively discussion on lifestyle and choices and what contributes to self-destructive behavior and society's attitude towards women in general. I will just say that if you can only see judging in all of that then you are really limiting your comprehension as you read this. That point goes right along with your stated opinion that stripping or prostituion is some kind of economic necessity, that's bunk plain and simple.

I truly believe that there are many who posted here who would like to see all of these womens lives take a turn for the better. If you are of the opinion that they don't need to then I fear that you don't share that sentiment

This is ridiculous, what happened to the pursuit of happiness, everyday the powers that be take more and more of our freedom from us. They tell us what we should eat then enforce it by saying restaurants can only use trans fat to cook the foods that you and I choose to eat but they allow big tobacco to sell us death in a pack. They control the images we see, the news we read, and the music we hear. How long will it take us to realize that our freedom is slowly but surely being taking away from us. For those of you who criticize these women and they families because you claim that you and yours are so God fearing then you must remember what the Bible says right? If not it goes a lil something like this(Let he without sin cast the first stone)it's not Christ like to be so judgemental and hypocritical when you and yours are only human too bound to the same flesh as they are. Futhermore how can you blame their families for anything and not look at society itself the very same society which you yourself are a part of, you say how so? How can society be blamed for anything? Well look at how kids who are different in the school systems get treated. They're bullied, picked on, and harassed repeatedly. Then they're asked to grow up in this world and be a productive and loving adult neverminding the effects society had on them as a innocent child. All you who point the finger carry the blame also just the same as the parents cause with the understanding that you all have I can pretty much bet that you were the bullies in school or either the ones who thought you were better than everyone else. It's sick when we as a country can tolerate hatred and greed but can't understand a woman or a man who is lest fortunate then ourselves doing what they need to do to survive and how can the judicial system justify prostitution as a stripper touching a man whose paid for a lap dance if there's no sexual or oral intercourse then it's just two consenting adults doing what they want to do, but only in Janesville can that be considered illegal. It's a joke.

Thank you, kleej.

Thats something everyone needs to read.

pailey~
Understood what you are saying. I believe that a household led by the man who is truly living up to what it means to be a man is the key here. If a man is leading his family with the purest of core values in mind, divorce or single parenthood is out of the equation. A man as head of his family, should be treating his wife like a queen. I'm not talking about buying lavish gifts or spending money on her. I'm talking about making sure she's loved the way she deserves to be. No conditions. No easy outs. No excuses. If something isn't right between the husband and wife, a man takes ultimate responsibility and makes sure it's taken care of. A man's wife should be edified as if she walks on water! (Especially in front of the children) That's what God intended for man was the ultimate gift of a beautiful woman, his wife. What I'm saying is, it's too easy in society to give up on something. Especially something as sacred as marriage. Marriage is unconditional. It's a lifetime commitment. I understand sometimes things don't work out, however, it's never going to always be easy or convenient, but always worth the effort. Love can move mountains. Especially that between a husband and wife. The example the husband and wife set for the children are the window to the childrens future which ultimately is a big factor in the future of our society. It's got to start at home! People who complain or whine about the way our culture is and the way people are these days need only look in the mirror. Because as MEN in society, it's happening on our watch and if we're going to turn this downward spiral around, it's going to take men of character and integrity who are willing to lead and be the example for others to follow. Please understand, I had to learn to think like this. It didn't get taught to me by my parents. Infact, my father didn't teach respect towards my mother the way he should have, by EXAMPLE! I was never abused, but, I was never taught to be a man. I was taught to be more the "boss" than anything. It's not the way it works! A wife is a lifetime partner. If a man is truly the LEADER in his home, his wife will be a happy lifetime partner. I thank God for leading me towards the truth. I'm so thankful for my beautiful wife and children. It's a privledge for me to lead them. God bless you all!

I don't know about any other fathers in this blog, but I'm quite tired and offended by hearing about the 'dads' always being the one to run off any be irresponsible about their children. True, there are a lot of fathers out there that are complete pukes, don't get me wrong. It's just sad to see that people all-to-often side with the mom's. Unfortunately, in most cases, mom's get stuck with a child and a father that wants nothing to do with them. But what about the fathers that take the responsibility and the mom runs off? What about the fathers like myself that have their child more than the mother and support them in every aspect, yet still have to pay child support because the mom isn't taking the responsibility? The child support office even goes the same way, siding with the 'moms' just because they are the moms.

Sorry to go off topic, but I think we need to refer to 'parents' in general as opposed to moms or dads individually.

for clarification: I am not someone who calls another human being a "mental case". The term was thrown out there by gazettefan. Every person is on a different level of mental or emotional stability by the mere fact that everyone IS unique and an individual. This does not mean, however, that there is no one else who feels the same feelings as I do. We have individual interpretations of each event in our lives. Those interpretations either help to develop or destroy our capacity to properly process our thoughts, actions and core beliefs.

jsvlparkergrad and attorneyatlarge: THANK YOU!!! It is great to know that others here "get" the dilemma that so many women (girls?) face and are subjected to simply because they were born with breasts and a vagina! Yet we continue to blame the victim for the actions of rapists and pedophiles.

The fear and humiliation is further amplified by the legal system. The fact that the perpetrator is most often times a relative, friend or partner encourages police, attorneys and judges (and gazette extra posters) to minimize the crime and expect the victims to "just get over it".

Odd- the burden is on women to choose not to strip... instead of putting the burden of morality on men to not patronize a strip club.

Truly shows that either our society expects women to be moral or simply lets men off the hook for their actions.
I think it is both.

ms_sassy_wi:
I have read all this and I really can see that some people here just don't get it. When you are a child raised by a parent/parents who continually put you down, you are most likely not going to have good self esteem going into adulthood. Or, perhaps the child was sexually abused, and learned over time that the only way to make "daddy" or "uncle Bob" happy and appreciate you is by being their sex toy and then you get "rewarded" by their approval. Or even being ignored by parent(s) makes a child learn to seek approval and gain self-esteem by looking for it elsewhere, without guidance. I would bet that the majority of these women were in one of those situations. When a person is brought up this way, the low self-esteem is pretty much ingrained and cannot be dealt with by just telling themselves to "snap out of it". These women do not suffer from too much self-esteem. They learn to bolster their low self-esteem by seeking approval from the males that will reinforce the way they learned to receive attention and praise, and will use the only "assets" they believe they possess, which is their bodies.
I think therapy is one way that these women can learn to look at themselves from the outside, and to learn that they have many assets within themselves. This takes time with a therapist, because something such as low self-esteem that has been instilled in them all through their childhood development, is very hard to overcome. And this assumes that these women want to change the way they see themselves.
Some of the earlier remarks made here, about some of the women and their looks, says something about the inadequacies in some of the posters' own lives that also need to be addressed. The need to degrade another human being to make themselves feel "superior" is also not a "healthy" trait.

again...I AM NOT DEFENDING ANYONE IN THE STORY. Stripping is definitely not the career I would choose for my mother, myself or my daughter (sister, aunt, etc.); however, I am not so cocky as to say that I am any "better" than the folks in the story simply because I choose not to strip. You (and the other posters) have elevated your worth and value as a human and minimized the people in the story to not be worthy of another breath. Who died and crowned you as King? Everyone has options and choices to make. Some make good choices and some don't. Some don't make good choices because they only are aware of Option A and Option B. They chose the Option they did based on the information they had at the time. Maybe they weren't happy with their choice; maybe they were. If they weren't, it is likely that they have not yet discovered that Options C, D and E exist. and before you go all postal on me, :), recognize that I said SOME. Some people plain and simply are just-narcissistic- and have no room for others in their hearts, heads and lives. So be it. I have a passion to show people that Options C, D & E (and maybe even F) exist and are attainable to many people, YES, EVEN TO "BAD-BEHAVIOR-DISPLAYING" STRIPPERS

ms...sassy, "generalization" and "avoidance" are common words in the english language.

They are also terms of art in the therapeutic industry. What do "generalization" and "avoidance" mean within the therapeutic industry?

I'm going offline now for a day or two.

gazettefan, I am in TOTAL agreement that drugs are prescribed WAY TOO MUCH to assist with counseling; however, this country has become accustomed to a quick fix. Undoing the wrongs that have been done to a person (many times since they were children) cannot be resolved in the magic pills that just cause many people to walk around in a haze. Again, they are trying to cover up the pain, not get to the root of the problem and attempt to come to livable terms with the actions they have taken or, yes, that SOMEONE ELSE inflicted upon them. We live in a reality not a fantasy in which we are all "painting the roses red..."

ms...sassy, Are you kidding?! What explains all your posts here?! You got into to all that as a way of defending the people in the story.

Also, why would you describe being a mental case as someone who is in contradiction to: "...human beings with hearts, feelings, brains and desires much like any other human being...and deserving of respect and dignity." -your words.

C'mon, sassy, don't avoid my recent long post.

So, what's the deal? Is this place still open? Is the same crap going on there, but everyone just needs to be a little more careful? Are any of the lovely ladies, and gentleman, still frequenting the establishment? Has anything really changed? And please don't suggest that I find out for myself. I just wondered what anyone might know if you care to take a break from the Thunderdome.

so an attorney ONLY has an opinion when they are receiving compensation for it? That's as absurd as anything I've read lately.

An attorney quite possibly BECOMES an attorney due to his/her ability to see things from other points of view and argue their point. That is a life skill (tool), by the way....

I would like to believe that one learns and fosters their skills and natural talents and then decides which careers would successfully use those talents.

gazettefan, your comment disturbs me: "ms...sassy, believing all the people in the story are mental cases is what allows you and some of the others here to wallow in all those relativistic generalizations about "society.""

I challenge you to show me where in any of my posts I portray the belief that the people are "mental cases"....

I would suggest that I am open-minded to the possibility that the people in the article are human beings with hearts, feelings, brains and desires much like any other human being...and deserving of respect and dignity. The mere fact that they have made choices other than the choices I have made does not make them "mental cases" or change them into something less than humans.

ms..sassy.. I believe it's important to beachsexton's point that arguing for a point of view is what a lawyer does for a living and that it is not typical for a lawyer to do that off the clock and that such behavior by a real lawyer would be tiresome and possibly proof that anyone who blogs who claims to be a lawyer isn't a lawyer or at least not a very good or successful one.

ms...sassy, I disagree that the healthy individual you desribe is incapable of empathy. Being healthy and incapable of empathy is a contradiction in terms and that contradiction may be an indicator as how it serves your purpose to encourage the alienation of the people you are talking about.

I can empathize with the people in the story but I'm certain that that empathy shouldn't include support from the vast body of sancitoned excuses that are the stock and trade of the therapeutic industry.

Maybe we should broach the subject of how effective the talking therapy is as way to judge its underpinnings mentioned above. Consider this: Whether food diets are effective or not, talk of how effective they are is commonplace in this country. But where is all the talk about how successful and effective therapy is? (Save the special interest claims in this blog.)

And this should be the clincher: The pervasive epidemic of psychiatric drugs and their use settles for all time, after almost a century, that the talking therapy generally ranges from being harmful to being a bunch of hooey to being, at best, the hiring of a paid friend who is a good listener.

Good therapy may be possible. But I think you and I disagree on what it would be.

Again, and I'm not saying it's true in all cases, condsider the possibility that taking off your cloths in a public place and charging money for sex is a product of an inflated ego and not a deflated ego. Loosen up your thought processes.

btw: I'm not begrudging the careers or the lives of attorneys. If the poster had been an computer programmer or a professor or doctor I would have had the same comments...

beachsexton, I want to first say I don't want to appear to be attacking you; however, your comment Mar 25, 2008 at 8:57 a.m.: "The funniest thing is something you have not said. That is why if you are able to work, and make that much money, why you would waste your time on this blog. I am in contact with many attorneys throughout the week, and they are very busy. They value their down time and do not blog."

In effect you have just put attorneyatlarge into a higher category than yourself. Do you value your downtime, beachsexton? why is it that you can post several comments on your downtime, but attorneyatlarge is too busy? Do you have more downtime than attorneyatlarge? How did you come to that conclusion? I'm trying to prove a point, I guess...society attaches too much value and respect to certain professions (I can 99.9% GUARANTEE you that there are former Rock County judges and attorneys who, if named, would have some legal problems because of their "downtime" behavior, habits and payoffs.) What are you saying? That an attorney deserves respect and financial status other than the rest of the slugs of the earth based solely on the name of the profession and the hourly earning potential?

This is a hard concept for many people to grasp, so I will try not to sound too dramatic about this: if a person has a healthy view of themselves and where they fit in the world and the big picture, it is nearly impossible to be compassionate or understand (even a little bit) what it feels like to have a low (or non-existent) self-image. People with a healthy self-image have a healthy understanding of their value and worth to the economic, social and legal systems. People with low self-image have a distorted view of the value and reason for their life even being in existence. When you feel that you are so insignificant that no one will be affected by your actions, there is little motivation to do anything other than what it takes to get by, because those actions, skills and thoughts are viewed by the person as somehow inferior and insignificant. Often times, a partner, parent or other close person will exacerbate the problem by telling them that they are not worth a damn and that leads to the second-guessing and the demise of self-value. They will begin to ask themselves things like "Who am I to reach out to help someone when I can't even help myself---" but to a much more drastic level. thoughts?

ms...sassy, believing all the people in the story are mental cases is what allows you and some of the others here to wallow in all those relativistic generalizations about "society."

When you do that, you leave them off the hook for their bad behavior and for their violations of the law.

This in turn, exaserbates the problem.

hmmmm...I am dismayed by the ugly turn this discussion has taken. I choose not to throw insults, but rather attempt to give my opinion which, by the way, optimism, came from a variety of learning tools, including actual breathing human beings, all of whom trusted me with their stories of trauma and healing. I have training; I have compassion...and I have a number of years from the school of life that help me form my opinions and "track record" if you will...I agree with atty regarding the sexist and misogynist society in which we live. RE: the cause and effect of the double standard where it is ok for men to want to look at beautiful women stripping, but it's not ok for a beautiful woman to strip..and before you go back to attacking the physical characteristics of the women who were arrested, I would like to remind everyone that beauty is in the eye of the beholder...and that many men don't pay much attention to a face if there is a different body part more accessible to view and drool over

optimism, good post.

But I offer the suggestion that the claim of low self-esteem is just another excuse. It may very be that the desire to strip and hook comes from an inflated ego and not a deflated ego.

I know that this contradicts a kind of thinking that pervades our society but I think the idea is worthy of consideration.

Personally, I feel that no matter who you are, you seek recognition. Whether it be for your intellect or beauty/sexiness. So, it is a natural desire of a woman to be thought of as desirable, but it is not natural to sell that beauty. That is a poor self worth, and that is what leads a person to justify it with they need the extra money to support their family, because who would want to openly admit that they are displaying themselves in a way that at least one person will tell them what they need to hear....they are desirable....and by God I must be if they are willing to spend money just to see me. Society needs to stop contributing to the excuses these woman (and men in some cases) use. These woman KNOW INSIDE they feel less than what they want to be, and once again, they are being rewarded for behavoir that only leads to the demise of self worth even further than in the beginning. I do not judge these girls, but I do not agree with the fact that they use excuses. When the excuses subside, and the responsibility to love one's self sets in, then the healing will begin....therapists will help, but you have to be very careful that you don't find a therapist that sits there and tells you what you want to hear. These types of people need solution orientated therapy, not the feel sorry for type.

Thanks beachsexton and the others here who recognize the scurge of relativism!!!

Ever see a FAN on fire? The fire is something intense! ATTY, care to get up? 1...2...3...4...5...6...

attorney.... I didn't request that your post be removed.

attorney (wannabe)....your use of the term "sexist psuedointellecualism" is its own condemnation. If you don't feel women are smart enough to decide whether or not they should be prostitutes, you are the sexist and misogynist.

Tell us more about your rotten feelings toward Janesville -then explain them. Where are you from? and why do you think that puts you above it all?

The child molestation question originally came from someone in your camp. And, "Prochaska's lawyer?" why not? you can really pile it on.

Your use of a shallow movie reference and your use of a comic book onomatopoeic says everything about the dept of your thinking.

"..stop it where it starts.." You're on to something there: When an adult woman wonders if she should be a prostitute, she should decide not to be a prostitute.

ATTY, It is funny you call me ignorant. The only other people that have expressed the same sentiment are the ones defending prostitution, claiming stripping as a noble profession, and mitigating the drug possession w/intent charge as "only weed". Obviously your feelings expressed identify you as a defense atty. And the rates you charge lead me to believe you defend long shot cases hoping for a large payday, or a large loss to offset real earnings.

The funniest thing is something you have not said. That is why if you are able to work, and make that much money, why you would waste your time on this blog. I am in contact with many attorneys throughout the week, and they are very busy. They value their down time and do not blog. They also do not attack people because they do not see things their way. Like I remind people that raise their voices, if you can not make your case on your own, on the facts, with out yelling, then you have a weak case. Yelling does not make your point better, nor does attacking another. I stated you were brash. I am commenting on your tone. You called me ignorant. That is attacking me. I could be your son, daughter, best friend, or other close person to you and you would never know it. You certainly would never call me that to my face, so do not do it in a blog. Calling me ignorant is the equivalent of saying you have never read any of my posts. With that said, either read and retract, or reserve the label for yourself. Now get to work. You have mad money to make.

Amen to that!

Attorney:
Why do you think these "boys" do the things they do??? It's called upbringing. Again, it goes back to "we the people". We have legislature that implements these welfare programs that promote single parent families!
The majority of the time it's the mother raising the kids while the father is left to either be a part time dad or not around at all.
Young boys need a father figure. I'm not talking a father figure who direspects the mother or acts like a hood either. I'm talking about about fathers who are MEN! Our society has become so diluted because of govt. intervention with these so called "family programs" (amongst other farces) that there is no foundational core values to be passed on to the coming generations. To be honest, society has never recovered from the 60's. We are in a downward spiral because there is no "common truth" anymore in our culture anymore. People's truths these days are whatever works for them. This is how nations crumble. We have no foundation of truth left anymore therefore lawlessness runs rampant and hence, our generations are becoming more disconnected than ever. When principles become replaced with idealism and truth is replaced with relativism, there is a big problem! This is why we have laws. I may not like these laws, but, it's irrelevent what I like! It's bigger than me, these laws are there to hold people accountable. If people lived by the 10 laws laid out by God ( whether you're religious or not) this country and our culture wouldn't be in such turmoil as it is now. 200+ years ago, these "principles" were placed in our constitution for the good of the many, and over time, the so called "new age intellects" feel these aren't necessary principles anymore because it takes away from the people who are "selve serving" and have their own agenda. People need to wake up. We've been fed lies our whole life through the liberal media and we are a society of people who can't seperate "fiction" from "truth". When "fiction" is accepted as "truth", you have chaos. Where there is chaos, there is dis-unity. Where there is dis-unity, there is an erosion of society. We are running out of time. It's time for people to plug into books and read about our countries history rather than the garbage media so readily available like TV, radio, video games etc. This pop culture we're seeing won't get the job done. We need men and women who are willing to confront reality and start leading the proper way. With WHOLESOME CORE VALUED PRINCIPLES!!! There's only two ways to live life, get bitter or get better. If people choose to be the bitter one's, it's their perogative, however, I do know for a fact that there are massive groups of men and women who are choosing to not bury their heads in the sand and are standing up for what's right. We've chosen to get better! God bless everyone!

No, I removed your post. Facts? For $500-$1500 per hour you better get them right.

Well, Janesville population, I know you'll keep bashing women and blaming the victims. Just don't be surprised when the current generation of ill-raised children starts assaulting you and you wonder why the police don't "do anything"

fan- If you want to pretend to be intellectual, at least learn how to spell it.
Aw.... removed the post, didja? Someone likes to stay in the kitchen when they can't take the heat...

beachsexton- Sorry about your ignorance, but Rock county does not host a population that could pay such exorbitant fees. I find my fee of $500 an hour for most contracted legal services and $1500/hr for litigation appropriate for the area.
Counsel does have to be brash, it's called factual evidence. None of which you exhibited here.

Also giveahoot-
The right of women to stay home with their children only applies to women that are married to working, well-paid men in this society.Look to see how many vitriolic references were made to public assistance here. I agree that children most often prefer home care to day care, but that is not what society wants for poor mothers and children.

ATTY, I wonder if you are unable to command such fees because of your attitude, presentation, or effectiveness? Oh, by the way, welcome to the blog. Jump in and be brash anytime you...nevermind, you have.

giveahoot- How to make it better? By stopping the problem where it starts. it is much easier to raise a resilient, whole child with some appropriate survival skills than to repair a broken mysogynist such as gazettefan here. That would involve some strong interventions- safe homes for women and children with supervision, accountability for men that create children and don't support them- the current system holds the burden on the custodial parents to collect, and should hold the burden on the deadbeat parents to pay.

attorney.... your reasoning is the intellectual equivilent of thongs on children.

And after we stop thinking about that, we should wonder why it isn't okay to say that people should take responsibility for breaking the law and other bad behavior.

Attorney,
I asked you to read my words closer and after reading your comment again I find that I am guilty of what I accuse you of.

I agree with you that the clothing that is made available for our young girls (too often the ONLY clothing available) is absolutely disgusting and perverted. Call me a chauvanist (guilty) but I would not stand for my wife or daughter to wear that garbage. I am also glad that they agree with me. Clothing like that is indicative of a prevalent attitude and it's wrong. I don't know what to do about that short of not buying it and asking the store manager if they would cloth their children that way.

I also don't understand the leniency afforded to that rapist who got probation, but in fairness, I also don't understand the leniency granted to the mother who kills her baby. We live in a sick world and I'm afraid we've made it that way. The question is- how to make it better.

Have a good day!

attorneyatlarge, did the Devil make you misread my post and the others?

Are you Prochaska's lawyer?

Attorney,
You have read something into my comments that simply isn't there. I was intentionally generic when addressing loser parents (plural).

Fathers are every bit as much to blame for the creation of kids who are forced to grow up in a self-destructive atmosphere as mothers. And yes, dad needs to be faithful to mom in order for this thing called raising kids to work. The realiity -right or wrong- is that most times the kids end up with the female and regardless of the lifestyle of the father, the lifestyle of the mother is going to have more (not all but more) influence on how that kid learns to function. If dad (or boyfriend, or john) is a scumbag also, that is all the kid will know and we have what we have.

We do differ on the role of stay at home moms. I don't like to see people belittle women who make the decision and the sacrifice to spend time, especially formative years, with the children that they are raising with their husband. If someone chooses to devote their time to their job (yuk!) rather than children I guess that is their choice, but I would bet that if you went to any daycare in town snd interviewed the kids that spend the day there where they would rather be- they would say home with mommy.

So go ahead and disagree, but please make sure that you understand what is being said before you react and more importantly please don't be so harsh when you are talking about decisions that others make that they truly feel is best for their families. There is a lot that I could say about the relationship between families and society but I'll leave that for another time except for this: If more men and women treated raising their kids with the importance that it deserves screemin meemies would have less employees and less customers.

lvmd- Most prostitution that you speak of is illegal because it takes empowers women to take money of off men. Men would rather hate women for needing sex.
In Nevada, where it is legal, not a single professional working woman has contracted AIDS. Dupre, the woman who brought down Spitzer, was worth $5000 an hour. I went to law school and still can't charge that much.

Kleej, gazettefan, and giveahoot-
Typical small town sexist thought. Instead of looking at the animalistic, oppressive society that rewards women for being sex objects, you are trying to blame single mothers for creating these dancers. Gazettefan, you have some bizarre notion these women don't feel guilty enough for doing absolutely nothing wrong.
How about the men that created these children and ran off? (No, it's more fun to put the onus on women for sleeping with them)
How about the men that drove the demand for sexual services and Screamin Meemees in the first place?
The heart of this problem possesses a penis, not a pair of breasts.
When you go to Kohl's and see thongs and sexypants for 6 year olds (as i did this past Friday) you can't think things are Ok for women in this society,
Do you think the 1 year year probation for a vicious rape and these ladies getting charged for dancing are related? Both instances relegate women to objects and property.
Prostitution is legal and always has been. Except it now comes in the guise of expensive weddings. A housewife that stays home, does not work and keeps her husband busy in bed is trading her vagina for a lifestyle.
Have you ever seen the movie 'Cathouse' where they interview customers? Married men buy a hooker because their wives won't perform a certain act...
There is a lack of morality, but women are the victims starting from a young age. Magazines such as Hustler make child molestation look fun and normal (Read Hustled by Tonya Flynt, the daughter L.Flynt raped)
If only men would act as one tenth as moral as they want women to act, we'd never be having this discussion.

Giveahoot~
I agree when you speak of mothers who make conscious efforts to have more children. It doesn't help when we have govt. programs who reward mothers for being single and having babies!!! It's literally more profitable for a mother and father to live unmarried than to be married. Thus, what kind of example of a homelife do these children have? What ever happened to absolutes and good core values instilled in our young? They are a thing of the past because traditional values have been compromised for years by the modern day intellects that aren't interested in foundational principles of truth because they go against their personal agendas. Relativism has become acceptable in our culture and it's leading to the collapse of this country. We need more people like you who have the ability to think rationally through issues like this and don't run and hide about it, but, instead, bring it to the forefront! Way to go!

Gazettefan....I TOTALLY agree with your philosophy. Thank you for being so honest. MS...SASSY...it seems as if you are a very compassionate person. My question to you is are you expressing your "truths" through experience, or through knowledge you have attained from a book?

gonzo, nutrition is an actual science.

Most of this "psych-therapy" is just paid-for excuses for wrong behavior, doing wrong to others, and sucking up insurance money.

No comparison between the two.

Try to keep your comments on a certain level. You can disagree with someone without taking direct shots at them. Respond to the content of the post.

Go ahead and request that my post be deleted. If it does get deleted, it'll be because I took the same shot at you. But at least I put it in the context of the reasoning of my point of view here.

Your comment about nutritionists doesn't make any sense and shows that you haven't been reading my posts well.

i will not suggest removal of your comment. the hypocrisy speaks for itself. i suppose next you'll tell us nutritionists are to blame obesity.

ms...sassy, we're a little closer on agreeing that people shouldn't pass the buck about their bad behavior.

You should expand your belief about politicians to include people from other walks of life.

gonzo, No.

And learn how to read. You've bought into the whole thing about something being the opposite of what it appears to be.

I never slammed therapy altogether. I've attacked how the therapeutic industry has given officially sanctioned excuses to people who don't want to take responsibilty for their bad behavior. People who aren't even patients embrace that crap.

You should also think about your notions of compassion if you think it's okay to use the idea of being a victim of child molestation as an insult. You don't have a high opinion of such victims, do you?

Ever hear of the defense mechanism of projection? Maybe that coupled with repressed memory syndrome may be why you asked your question. Think about it, Einstein.

Now that you've been educated a little bit as to how the theraputic industry works: Are you a victim of child molestation?

NEWSFLASH: not every bad moment in the world is because someone entered therapy. not every good thing is because of a counseling "success story", either.

No, it is a REALITY, not an EXCUSE. Dealing with life on life's terms. Not shifting blame and not sticking one's head in the sand. Change what you can, accept what you can't.

And to answer your question, I think politicians (and others) who get caught with their hand in the "cookie jar" do so because they believe they are powerful enough to get away with it. When the truth comes out, they attempt to shift the attention to someone/something else to minimize their behavior and not take responsibility for their actions. The same can be said for someone who gets pulled over for speeding..."Why are you stopping me? The car up ahead of me was going WAY faster than me"...doesn't mean the driver who was pulled over WASN'T speeding.

ms...sasssy, the problem is that the perception is out there that whenever you get caught doing something bad, you can blame it on something in the past or the bad luck of a mental disorder. It's not a matter of the Cleavers and abusive parents. Almost everyone has been made to feel that when needed there's something back there haunting them that is the real cause for any wrong doing.

Why do you think celebrities and politicians almost instantly cloak themselves in the sanction of an excuse in the form of an official diagnosis whenever they get caught doing something wrong?

The thereuputic industry has aggravated and increased the desire for people to do whatever they want with impunity. As though freedom means you can do whatever you want. Instead, with freedom comes resposnsibility.

You will never see a truly cured patient until he or she says that they take responsibility for every bad thing they ever did, no excuses. This doesn't mean they should take on dibilitating guilt. It does mean, for example, that if they can take responsibility for the good they did when they were young they also have to take responsibility for the bad.

All the excuses, in their official form, come from the therpeutic industry.

The therapeutic industry is the sickness for which it purports to be the cure!

gazettefan, "in your earlier post today you are again allowing a bad childhood to excuse bad behaivior. Anything that smacks of cause and effect like that is harmful."

Perhaps you missed my meaning: I AM NOT EXCUSING BAD BEHAVIOR, I am merely acknowledging that not everyone grows up with training of right and wrong. It is learned just like everything else. It is important to recognize that not everyone has had Mr. and Mrs. Cleaver raising them. More had Mr. and Mrs. Haskell. I was fortunate. My thinking errors were corrected early - not ignored or allowed to continue. I am not saying that the people involved here SHOULD use their parents or childhood as a scapegoat. I guess I am just saying that if you believe that what these folks have done and possibly will do in the future is wrong and damaging, consider yourself fortunate. Nothing gives us the ability to choose our parents or our upbringing.

ms...sassy, in your earlier post today you are again allowing a bad childhood to excuse bad behaivior. Anything that smacks of cause and effect like that is harmful. Someone with a bad childhood is less likely to be as happy as someone who has had a better childhood. But the bad effect of a bad childhood can not be acted out, it can't be sanctioned in any way.

We can put whether we are born inherently good or inherently bad aside. It shouldn't be a mystery to the people in the story as to what is wrong and what is right. We are told what is wrong and what is right by the world around us everyday.

In your later post today you say that people should be corrected as to distorted thinking. This is good thinking on your part. A person can be told that prostitution is wrong and illegal and that they shouldn't do it and if there's an urge to be a prostitute they have no right to follow-through with that urge. And that they should talk to the proper person about all the bad emotions that are attached to that urge.

ms_sassy, we are on the same page. I know that I need to hear some real honesty from others if I am goofing up.

Deadbeat parents are at the root of many of these problems. As a grown child of deadbeat parents (both mom and dad) I can say that it's possible to turn around, but for society in general deadbeat parents are a root of our probelms.

Hug those kids ms sassy, you are part of the solution!

and...so much is said about deadbeat fathers. as a mother myself, I hate to admit, but there are way too many deadbeat mothers. perhaps they still have custody and perhaps they provide BASIC needs (see Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs Pyramid) of shelter and food, but fall far short of providing safety/security and social development that every child needs to become a productive member of society and someone who finds it somewhat comfortable living in their own skin.

thanks giveahoot. I guess I meant practicing SAFE sex...and yes, I agree with most all of your comments. counseling is not the answer for everyone; however, I believe that having someone who will tell you honestly where your thinking is distorted, wrong, or otherwise in need of adjustment is healthy. I am NOT saying ANY counselor...just like an attorney or a doctor, you have the right to "fire" them if not helping to bring about the positive changes that you seek. Perhaps I only have had experience with qualified and exceptional counselors. The bottom line is that everyone has an obligation to be the best person they can be. Some choose to take that obligation seriously and others decide it's not worth it. Too many people are in the latter category and it doesn't seem to matter if they are male or female, professionals or unemployed, old or young, black, white, yellow or purple. But it seems to get worse with every generation.

Practicing having babies invariably leads to having babies (how many of these single moms made a concious decision to have a child? Not many I would say)and too many of those babies end up in homes with horrible role models, such as a mom in the sex trade with druggie boyfriends and johns in and out of thier lives for years on end.

And yes, you can get a drivers license if you prove that you have been trained and can pass two tests. The saying goes that anyone can be a parent but it takes someone special to be a mommy or a daddy. I submit that raising so many of our children without the support, training, correction and LOVE that only parents can give contributes to the problems that we face today. Parents being willing to commit to each other even in tough times will produce kids that we need, not perfect but not self-destructive either. Not all kids raised in single parent homes turn out to be maladjusted to the point where they turn to self-destruction as a way of life, but too many do.

I also agree with an earlier statement describing counselors as paid friends. I know many counselors, fine people who truly care, but they are limited to the description of paid friend and many don't even have the answers for their own lives much less anyone elses. I would also add that there are situations where it is easier to become a counselor than getting a drivers license. Not allways, but too often.

Early in this discussion there was a lot of concern about us (society?) needing to DO something so that people don't turn to this self-destructing lifestyle. Outside of the legal/court system helping to provide motivation and social services helping to provide means to live when necessary, there isn't much more we can do. Burning candles and holding hands won't help. The training starts young, kids watch parents -right or wrong- to see how to live. I am saddened for kids of strippers and hookers and dealers. They end up being a product of their environment. Practicing produces kids who have to liive like this.

practicing making babies is much better than actually HAVING babies if a person is not ready to accept the charge required to "train a child in the way s/he should go."

it's easy to get a driver's license, but it is (supposedly) required...make a baby? no training or proof of ability to parent required!

some people have HORRIBLE role models. these people don't have an opportunity to learn the difference between right and wrong from their parents/guardians. I reject the claim that people instinctively know the difference. I am a Christian and believe that people were born with a sinful nature. It takes nurturing, guidance and a little bit of a leash to establish self-control and personal boundaries. We develop personal "gray areas" of just how far we are willing to go down a path before we change direction or turn around because we recognize from our previous experiences that we are in a "bad" place. I do not believe that we will turn around on our own if the internal response to danger (what I call our "belly buzzer") is not CULTIVATED by loving and caring parents or other qualified care providers.

I know it does not require a specialist to treat bipolar but it does take a doctor who is willing to treat him.

The only reason that I made another comment about any possible spelling or writting errors is because my errors were pointed out before.

I promise that I will never start a story with anything about dark and stormy nights. I promise.

The statement about my mom is true. I keep her informed about everything in my life.

You also ended with "call me." I dont even know who you are so why would I call you.

lvmd...Prostitution is not legal in most of Nevada. Only in counties with less than 250,000 people. That eliminates Clark County and therefore the great majority of the population.
I live in Clark County and have to travel a long ways. (Just kidding in the last line.)

lvmd, baby, you may be writer but you aint no dancer.

Ok, maybe you are a dancer but you're definitly a writer too. The "mother" thing was a nice touch and a few slip ups here and there e.g. bipolar disorder: Bipolar disorder doesn't require a specialist. Your misspelling of bipolar may be a clue too. Especially since you write so well.

And your last sentence: "I guess only time will tell what the ending of this story will be." was also a helpful hint.

And apologizing in a pervious post for spelling errors etc. as if there were enough to mention. The writer's ego just wouldn't allow you to fake bad writing, would it?

Don't get me wrong, what you're doing is probably a lot easier than being a welder by day, a flashdancer by night, just to someday dance in the ballet.

Promise me you'll never begin a story with: It was a dark and stormy night.

You've been a little syrupy so far but I am nonetheless impressed.

Call me.

I've noticed a lot of commments here looking for a solution to help people who feel the need to turn to the sex industry as a means of financial support. lvmd seems to be ok with her decision and I take her at her word with respect to her approach to this. It's the people who speak of the need for a solution to come from the community, society at large, or the therapeutic industry that I speak to here.

Beachsexton made a fantastic point early on when he/she asked that a dancer think of their children watching them as they dance. Excellent perspective. Apparently many of these women have children. I'll bet that not many of them have the father(s) of those kids in the house. I would also be so bold as to speculate that not many of these women grew up in a family with both parents under the roof that they grew up under.

The solution to problems like this -and yes this is a problem, especially for the children- is the two-parent family where a husband and wife commit to each other and their children. We all see these problems in society continue and actually get worse and it will for the next generation too. We don't have families anymore. What kind of a chance do you give a kid in todays public school with a mom who is a stripper? How about a mom who is a stripper AND a hooker? Think of the message those kids take with them on the role of man and woman. Think of what normal is to those children.

You want solutions? It won't be found with neighborhood meetings, and for the most part it won't be found with the counselors. Solutions to this will be found with mom and dad doing what they are supposed to do. This will produce kids who will make their share of mistakes, but will also be more likely to turn into adults who won't need to live a double life or be looking over their shoulder.

Some will say this is hokey, but many of the issues that our society faces today are problems that a family doesn't typically encounter.

I hope that this situation causes each of these women find a better way and get a better life for themselves and their children. The more families with mom and dad we have, the less demand we will have for this stuff

I do not approve of prostitution. I will tell you that I always thought that prostitution was having actual intercourse that invlolved the genital areas for money. I just thought the actions that some of the girls were arrested for were just unladylike and unprofessional. I will not say that Im an angel I have made many mistakes thru out life. When I first started dancing I danced in a tiny club where the girls were so classy. I didnt even know that drugs and prostitution existed in clubs. I also will admitt I didnt even know what a dancer wore. I then went out east to dance. I met a social worker who danced for extra income and she taught me how to be a lady and still be a dancer. I understand that woman dance the way they see others dancing. Its a case of monkey see monkey do. I always told new girls how to make a tip without being a tramp but Im only one girl. I cant make girls be decent when they dont want to. All I can do is bring as much class to my stage presentations and private dances as I can. I am a dancer and I do take my clothes off in front of guys but I dont take any shame in my way of doing my job. I really do wish that there was a way to make people understand that I dance for the extra income to make sure my family has what they need. I will also tell you that I have sent this story along with the comments to my own mother because I know that I am a clean dancer and I have nothing to be ashamed of. On a final note I do not believe that prostitution is right or that it should be legal. I wish there was more that I could do to help girls be able to find other means of taking care of their financial needs than turning to prostitution. I am only one person and it would take more than just me to help all of the girls in the world that have turned to prostitution. Look how it is legal in most of Nevada. I feel that just tells girls its ok go ahead and be a prostitute. If the club is shut down it may make some happy but the girls will go elsewhere. Whether a person approves of strip clubs or not just because one is closed down doesnt mean that the rest will close or that new ones wont open. I guess only time will tell what the ending of this story will be.

Petcat....
Do I blame the internet? Not directly. I blame the society we live in that allows the trash that's out there to be visible on the interent to anyone, any age! Just because people don't like to hear the truth of what's going on doesn't mean it's not going on. We are a media driven culture and it's not just a guess, it's a fact. When core values of children are compromised in every media source out there just so these "Media Tycoons" can have their almighty dollar, it's a problem. Anyone who would go against good core valued principles for their own personal gain is part of the problem. Sorry, it's true. If you don't like hearing it, maybe you might want to rid yourself of your existing media sources! The truth can be hard to take, but, very liberating when you have confronted it.

lvmd, I do believe you. Thanks for answering. I asked because I wanted to know if you approve of prostitution. I take from your answere that you do not. Am I correct?

In response to the question am I a prostitute. The answer to that question has already been decided in your own head. It doesnt matter what I say because you will not believe me any way. You will only believe me if the answer is what you want to hear. In all truth I am not a prostitute but it doesnt matter because you have already drawn your own conclusion.

My friend and I were having lunch and she showed my Myspace. I have never gone on the site before. We did it for a laugh. Amanda has updated her page. Needless to say, this expierence hasn't changed her behavior. Her Myspace page is obnoxious, to say the least. You hate to say people this young are a lost cause...but it seems pretty clear. I just really feel sorry for her children. What a shame they don't get to pick their parents.

is it a coinsidense that she is the oldest out of the bunch as well? i went to school with a girl or 2 pictured and man i am not surprised this happened

I think it's funny that Jnnifer Lowell's pic isn't shown but her husbands is. All of them are just sick! everyone in family must be so proud!

lvmd, are you a prostitute?

By the way since people seem to be worried about spelling and writting errors, there is a limited space for writting each blog and I had to cut out the spaces between sentences so everything would fit. As for spelling errors, well sometimes it happens.

I see someone posted that they think one of the girls should move out of state.What comes to my mind when I read this is as follows.When a person gets into trouble which results in probation or parole they are mandated to stay in a certain area and need to get permission to leave.Making a comment that the girl should leave state because of what she has done is pretty shallow.I really wish that I could share some personal info on each one of the girls listed above. Each girl has a life and each girl lives as they choose to.We could sit here and debate whats right and wrong for days on end and still not come up with an answer that everyone would be happy with.I know with posting this there will be comments reposted. The comments will be both negative and maybe positive.If we all agreed and thought the same it would make for a very boring world.As for if girls will take the arrests as a wakeup call that is completely up to the girl.I also read that people are now checking for myspace accounts.I can tell you now that if run across mine I proudly display a picture of me and my two boys. I know that some nosey people are now looking to see if they can find me.I hope you do because I am very proud of my children. While your looking at the picture let me tell you a little secret. My oldest boy is bi-polor and adhd.He takes alot of my day time hours.I leave my day job alot of times to go and take care of issues regaurding my son. As a parent that is my job. This takes away from my income. By dancing I make up some of the money I may lose.I also can work at night while my children sleep. I know someone is gonna come up with some kind of response stating that I am making excuses to prance around in front of perverts. Well go ahead and think that because you have no idea what it is like to live in my shoes.I also want to tell you that even with the insurance that I pay for thru my day job it is very hard to find doctors in my area who will take on the care of my child. I drive 45 minutes one way to take him to a doctor that will see him. The doctor that sees him is only a family doctor and she does the best that she can with the knowledge she has. I would use the state insurance if I could but then no doctor who specializes in bi-polor will even see my child. I use my income from dancing and my day job to drive my son long distances for treatment and to also take care of my other children, my brother and my mother.Go ahead and say what you want about dancers or me.You dont know what Im like or what I feel. You dont know what its like to be the person who cant find treatment for your child because the insurance wont cover it.I will say that I do know that some dancers do the job for all the wrong reasons but not all dancers are bad people or dirty. Not all people are horrible parents because they do a job that society may not like.

ms….sassy….., you should have stated your comments, no matter how many.

Usually, at best a therapist IS nothing but a paid friend. They have no basis for functioning as anything else.

-----

The “I can do whatever I want.” ego trip will fall by the wayside when an over inflated ego is reduced to a degree that has the patient functioning in a way that doesn’t included anti-social, criminal, and self-degrading behavior. Telling or reminding the patient that he or she cannot behave in an anti-social, criminal, and self-degrading manner is all that’s necessary. The tendency toward an improved state of well-being and socially acceptable behavior will follow.

Allowing the patient to vent emotional anguish will be useful. Telling the patient how to think in detail will only get you feigned approval.

---------------

The hard work (your description) on the part of the patient is not for the purpose of hiding low self-esteem; that hard work is performed for the purpose of convincing others that the patient is entitled to more than the average person just by the mere fact of his or her existence.

The therapeutic industry gets much of its intellectual reputation from the insidious claim that a thing or a behavior is the very opposite of what it appears to be. This is the double-think and double-speak of the hellish, distopian world of George Orwell’s 1984.

War is Peace Slavery is Freedom

Hate is Love

------------

We are transfixed by the chaos we see in society today (some of that chaos I will insist spews and spreads from the Orwellian miasma that is the therapeutic industry), but to not make a point of focusing on the very apparent order of the world around us and how we depend on others for that order for a sense of stability within ourselves amounts to exploiting that chaos for the purpose of holding an excusatory, irrational view of the world in general. Bad thinking and bad behavior follows.

-----------

What psychological strategy and what social strategy is represented by your use of the “hammer” simile?

-----------

optimism, great post.

anyone know if the mall is open easter sunday? (in all seriousness)

How many of these people have kids? The homelife for these kids must be just horrid! Not a suprise. The moral decay in this country, or the world for that matter is frightening. The sad part is, anytime it gets brought to light, you get a generation of people who think it's no big deal what's happening in our society today.
They can come into blog sites and spew the untruth they've been handed their whole life while sitting safely behind a keyboard and out of plain sight.
It called "disconnected"! The media has become our culture! Violence on TV, no limits to the printed word, violent video games that descensitize the user, a "wealth" of information available on the internet with no checks and balances as to whom has access to what...... and we wonder why a group of people like these are an example of our society today.... There are too many people in society that like to complain, point fingers, pass the buck and simply choose to turn the other cheek when they should be at least attempting to live a somewhat "core valued" life and at least attempt to make a positive difference in their community. How about a "call to arms" within the neighboring communities to put our best foot forward and stopping the bleeding before we lose this once great country??!!!! I encourage people to start reading and thinking. A great book to start with is called "When Nations Die" by: Jim Nelson Black ~ People need to start reading and gain awareness as to what's going on in our culture and what we need to do to turn this thing around before it's too late!!
Here's a paragraph from the book:
-----------------------------------
We as a nation and a people must rise to the occasion or suffer a fate similar to that which has befallen civilizations in the past. The task is not easy since the patterns of decay found in other nations strike ours as well. Nations were subverted by false and foreign ideologies. We too find hostile ideas in the public arenas of media, politics, and education. Sexual promiscuity led to the downfall of these nations. So too we find similar patterns of sexual promiscuity and debauchery. We are losing the battle.
The dark ages are on the horizon.

Does that Jennifer need bail money??

Hey roadxill, your spelling is atrocious. It is so bad that anyone who reads it has to read it twice just to try and understand the content. We are all now dumber for having to read it. Speaking of truckers, every one that I ever met had better spelling and communication skills than you, and that isn't saying much.

ms….sassy….., you should have stated your comments, no matter how many.

Usually, at best a therapist IS nothing but a paid friend. They have no basis for functioning as anything else.

-----

The “I can do whatever I want.” ego trip will fall by the wayside when an over inflated ego is reduced to a degree that has the patient functioning in a way that doesn’t included anti-social, criminal, and self-degrading behavior. Telling or reminding the patient that he or she cannot behave in an anti-social, criminal, and self-degrading manner is all that’s necessary. The tendency toward an improved state of well-being and socially acceptable behavior will follow.

Allowing the patient to vent emotional anguish will be useful. Telling the patient how to think in detail will only get you feigned approval.

---------------

The hard work (your description) on the part of the patient is not for the purpose of hiding low self-esteem; that hard work is performed for the purpose of convincing others that the patient is entitled to more than the average person just by the mere fact of his or her existence.

The therapeutic industry gets much of its intellectual reputation from the insidious claim that a thing or a behavior is the very opposite of what it appears to be. This is the double-think and double-speak of the hellish, distopian world of George Orwell’s 1984.

War is Peace Slavery is Freedom

Hate is Love

------------

We are transfixed by the chaos we see in society today (some of that chaos I will insist spews and spreads from the Orwellian miasma that is the therapeutic industry), but to not make a point of focusing on the very apparent order of the world around us and how we depend on others for that order for a sense of stability within ourselves amounts to exploiting that chaos for the purpose of holding an excusatory, irrational view of the world in general. Bad thinking and bad behavior follows.

-----------

What psychological strategy and what social strategy is represented by your use of the “hammer” simile?

-----------

optimism, great post.

I think the police have it all wrong. The men paid to see these women to only dance. It just so happens they all fell in love, shared a beautiful moment together, had a falling out, then broke up.

If this isn't a blog then it's a discussion; that's what the Gazette calls it. People don't just get one turn in a discussion.

Space isn't a problem. Posts can be skipped over.

You might try some Pepto-Bismol for that. Sir, the private's
weapon's name is Charlene...

I don't think this thread was intended as a "blog" but it has turned into one. Same folks posting again and again and yet again.

To reinforce the idea that this is simply a forum to comment on news stories, the Gazette should limit posts to one post per person, per 24 hour period. Enforced by appropriate software. Everyone could make their comment but the thread wouldn't go on and on and on, ad nauseam.

I thought that strip club sting might be some type of medical problem.

Doc, now that is funny. Maybe we should open our own place here. Shakeys went out of business. Nice location. Invest in a couple of brass polls and start making money.

road..., read the rules:

Drunk Blogging doesn't begin until 8pm.

"Borders on criminal" - now that's funny.

I personnally think it borders on criminal to post the pictures and addresses of these people in the paper. If they are convicted of the wrongdoing that they have been accused of, then they should be punished accordingly. But to post pictures and addresses?? WHY??? Do they post pictures of all criminals?? Do all persons busted for drunk driving have their picture posted in this paper? Drunken Driving is a FAR more serious offense than what these people have been accused of. If a drunken driver is accused of vehicular homicide, is their picture and address posted in the paper? I don't believe so. Why not, Gazette editors?? Why the double standard??

Jeffrey Steele looks like Private Pyle from full metal jacket. I just thought I'd throw in a random observation.

Hey Ratt wanna go to Amsterdam with me HOOKERS AND POT HOOKERS AND POT!!!! Its like kibbles and bitts only better!!!!!

is this all we are worried about. go to europe and see what goes on.

ROADXILL, I was not talking about your family. In fact I was not even talking about you. It was a ref. to some of the first comments about the girls. If it cost me, can I get a refund?

ms...sassy...I appreciate your points. I do agree with the fact that some people are immobilized by their past experiences, but I firmly stand behind the fact that INSTINCT tells you what is right or wrong. No matter how difficult it is to follow through with therapy, or how fearful a person may be, it is the person who persistantly follows the healing path that will overcome their excuses and become their own person. Like I said, bad behavoir repeats itself if there are no consequences. Of course the law becoming involved becomes a consequence, but it is people that persitantly tell the individuals that they feel sorry for them and their behavoir is a result of their past. This is a reward for the behavior being the responsiblity has been placed upon the past on not the person. A person KNOWS in their soul what choices are right and wrong, and it is the survivoirs who choose to feel that pang in their gut when they choose to remain a victim and continue the dysfunction. And yes, like you said it is difficult to stand up and say, no more, for what ever reasons, but it is the responsibility of that person to make the right choices however hard they may be. And trust me, I know this doesn't happen over night, over a period of a year or even ten years. It is a life time of self monitoring and healing. But it can be done, and it should be done. A child has no choice but to be a victim, an adult has the choice to allow the victimizer remain in control or not. It is all to easy to say it's too hard. Therefore, the easy route entitles them to use excuses, and be rewarded for them, by someone somewhere consistantly telling them they are not to blame. The key word here is CONTINUE. Of course I believe that there will almost always be some sort of destructive behavoir of a person with a rotten childhood, but it is the person that identifies their behavoir as a part of their existance that needs to be modified. And all people, I don't care who you are, know when behavoir needs to be modified. The question is will they do it?

why are people assuming these girls didnt have other "legitimate" day jobs already? ive known several from that club who danced a couple nights a week only to supplement their income. giving them a criminal record is not going to turn anyones life around and make them more employable.

What'd I say?!!!

These girls look pretty nasty to me, did they really recieve money for sex or other things, i guess i would want to be checked out by a dr. if any one of them had sexual contact with anyone.

gazettefan, yikes! I have way too many comments to make to your post, so suffice it to say that you and I may need to agree to disagree.

I definitely ABSOLUTELY do not agree that a counselor is a paid friend to listen to you. As a matter of fact, a counselor's role is to point out errors in thinking to a client. Errors in thinking such as: "I can do whatever I want".

A person with low self esteem works VERY HARD at making people think they are ok with themselves, so they appear to others to have too high of self-esteem...

The world is in a tragic state of "chaos instead of a society". At this point, it's everyone for him or herself. There is very little "community" and very little "society".

The "tools" I refer to are life skills. Not excuses. If you have a hammer rather than a high-heeled shoe, life as a carpenter is easier and more fulfilling. If you have a resume rather than a couple of names written on a piece of paper, it's easier to be considered for employment.

Perhaps we are opposite sides of the fence on this, but that's ok. You are entitled to your opinions and I know that you have thought them through, just as I have.

People with depression and especially debilitating depression (can't get out of bed) should benefit from therapy.

Therapists have two valuable functions: one is to determine if a patient is a management problem that requires institutionalization (psychosis and any behavior and thought processes that amount to severe disconnection from reality); the other function is to, in effect, be a paid friend who is a good listener. Expressing emotional anguish to another human being in the proper setting would qualify as good therapy. None of the other stuff means anything. (I won't get into medications at this point.)

Not having the "tools" (ms..., you mentioned below) is just another way of making excuses. The woman in question knew she shouldn't be hooking but she did it anyway. She stopped when the legal system made her stop. She chose to confront the hard way one of the consequences of breaking the law. Therapy or no therapy she didn't have and still doesn't have any excuses. We'd have chaos instead of a society if it were any other way. A hard fact of life is: Our tragedies only make us more of what we already are; and we have to take responsibility for what we are.

The therapeutic industry has contributed mightily to the fractionalization of the family unit. Consider what Freud and the Freudians have done with their Oedipus Complex, infantile sexuality, and the over emphasis on sibling rivalry. Even though this stuff was debunked twenty years ago, the train of patients/customers it created will continue forever.

Self-esteem: Anyone who goes around committing crimes does not have low self-esteem, they have too much self-esteem. The thought process is: "I'm so good, I can do whatever I want, with impunity."

The selling of low self-esteem is another marketing pitch that goes hand-in-hand with "It's not your fault." These are pitches you give to people when you want their money.

Therapists have a knack for determining that a patient no longer needs therapy when insurance coverage for that treatment runs out.

optimism, I'm sorry that you had to experience the trauma, but am happy that you found a way to deal with the pain in a healthy way...

"an adult who chooses to continue the cycle of dysfunction and abuse is fully aware of need for change, but refuse to take that other direction because in some way they are rewarded by remaining the victim."

I don't agree. I think that many times adults who continue the cycle of dysfunction are aware of the need for change, but don't have the resources (insurance, the ability to ask for help without feeling guilty, etc) to find a credible agent of change...and find themselves spinning their wheels hoping something will fall into their path sooner or later. You can be critical of people who are afraid to reach out for help if you choose, but it is a VERY SCARY DECISION to make and follow through on. Letting go of all you know and feel becomes a project. Sometimes people who have clinical depression and PTSD find just getting out of bed each day to be an overwhelming project.

gazettefan, from your 3/20 post at 5:20 pm: "It is the responsibility of each person to resist harmful impulses."

I agree wholeheartedly; however, my question is...HOW does one learn what harmful impulses they should resist...or what has a potentially harmful outcome if not given the tools to make an intelligent decision?

I hope you understand, gazettefan, that I do agree with the basis of your statements and posts; however, if you are in a hole and don't know how to dig your way out, you will go in to "survival mode" and some people are better "survivors" than others. In my opinion, life-skills training is the solution.

As a person "of a bad cildhood", I can attest that, yes!, you have problems with feeling as if you belong,etc.. but, I have also learned that when you become capible of making your own decisions, you have to decide which direction in that fork in the road you are going to take. If your childhood was so bad, it is your CHOICE to NOT conform to the life style and use the abuse as an excuse. A child doesn't have a choice but to use the abuse as an excuse, but an adult survivoir of childhood abuse does. A person, no matter how scarred from abuse, knows the behavoirs that led to their abuse, and instinctively know that those behavoirs didn't feel good. So, in my opinion an adult who chooses to continue the cycle of dysfunction and abuse is fully aware of need for change, but refuse to take that other direction because in some way they are rewarded by remaining the victim. Where there is a will, there truly is a way, I speak from experience...so I know this to be true.

MS, you are very right in each of your responses. I think both you and FAN are right depending on the situation, the person, and the agent of cause. Regardless of how the change came about, at least it is a change. Even I cringed at the comment posted by MYMARO telling us where she worked. I cringe for a few reasons. First, the demeaning intent of his comment parallels that of her former career. It is psychologically repressive and carries a connotation of shame and insult. Second, it is intended to hinder a successful entry into the workforce without the increased potential for ridicule and harassment. This is the equivalent of lose-lose. She is condemned from a socially unacceptable position in society, encouraged to make an attempt to support her family to the best of her ability hopefully without state aid (it is a safety net), and yet she is outed for quickly obtaining employment. That is unfair, rude, childish, and has no positive intent. Third, and last, is that this is flat out dangerous. Now, people that fear being identified as johns know her address and where she works. That, along with every pervert or opportunist in the area will also know where to observe her going to and from work. They also have the potential to occupy a table and observe her without her knowing their intentions. Very dangerous to say the least.

If she DOESN'T get into therapy, my experience working with people suggests that she will be likely to repeat her behavior and each trip through the doors of the legal system will get easier, people with whom she spent time in jail with will become her "friends" and criminal activity will end up being a way of life instead of having the jail/courts be a means to correct the behavior.

Don't get me started on that self-esteem thing.

I have to go. See you later.

gazettefan, I agree that she is probably not working as a DANCER now BECAUSE of the legal system, however, IMO getting into counseling will only help her to improve her self-esteem and ALSO to learn how to take responsibility for her actions.

People are posting that they are concerned about the girls pictures being posted, as well as addresses. They think the girls might be stalked. I am confused why people think they might get stalked....especially after seeing the pictures...

ms........ If it weren't for the legal system, the woman in question would still be stripping and hooking. She is twenty years old and has been around long enough to know that she shouldn't be stripping and hooking and that hooking is illegal.

Though at any given time in history the legal system isn't a hundred percent correct on what is right and what is wrong, it is the legal system that corrects or prevents bad behavior.

Mitigating bad behavior with the excuse of a bad childhood only aggravates the pervasiveness of bad behavior.

Someone who experienced a bad childhood isn't likely to be as happy as he or she would be had that childhood been happier. That person is still responsible for not letting that unhappiness to act itself out as anti-social or criminal behavior.

If somehow who has experienced a bad childhood can benefit from therapy, fine. But as I've stated earlier the therapuetic industry is more in the business of creating victimhood and keeping customers than in "curing" anyone.

If the woman in question goes into therapy she risks losing the benefit of her recent important lesson. If she's smart, she will realize that anything she may "learn" in therapy does not and will not excuse her bad behavior.

so if I appear to be on a "pity parade", I'm merely attempting to say that there are people who can benefit from counseling and then there are people who, without counseling (or other healthy methods of dealing with personal issues) have lives that are like a train wreck.

I also know that there are some "professionals" in counseling who have no business attempting to help others....

gazettefan, I understand your logic; however, I firmly believe that therapy and counseling can be VERY effective in making life changes. I don't believe that all character flaws can be traced back to bad mommy or bad daddy, but it's a fact that we learn our morals and values from the ones we spend most of our time with. As children, for most, it is our parents. I don't blame my parents for some of the bad choices I've made in my past, but I know that if I had been raised by 2 different people, I would have a completely different outlook on life and would probably not have the positives that I have in my life, either.

MYMARO I think you need to maybe open a book and read about class, because you truely show none. If you have read anyones other posts besides the one that are about yours. You would be so quick to ask such question. I don't agree with anyone who sell their body for money, dancing or what ever eles these girls have done. I think that it is just putting being a woman down. The fact that you are so infected but drama is the problem that I was talking about. If this girl is doing something to maybe better her life after the wake up call she just got, then great, good for her. Thank you for reminding all of us that there are still people who think that spreading drama is a hobby!

mymaro, I prefer to look at life optimistically. What can I do to help others? What can I do that will help to make a change? When I look around, what do I see? How can I use my brain, my talents, gifts and resources to improve the community that I live in and to treat people with dignity and respect, EVEN IF I don't receive a thing in return. Janesville is no Mayberry, but do you want to live in "the hood" or do you want to live in a community that doesn't, for lack of a better way to describe it, poop in our own nest?

ms..... re: your statement:

"Perhaps the arrest was a life changing experience for her and she will make a better life for herself and be a contributing member of this community."

Your statement is even more positive than mine.

But still, it can't be overlooked that the change was prompted by the legal system and not the pity parade or the therapuetic industry.

Perhaps it happened because she wanted to improve herself. If we are looking at all possibilities, she may be employed because she has a brain and a reason to make better choices. Perhaps the arrest was a life changing experience for her and she will make a better life for herself and be a contributing member of this community.

It should not be overlooked that the woman in question now has a job that doesn't include stripping and prostitution.

This positive change in her life did not happen as a result of pity or therapy. It happened because she was arrested for prostitution.

I could say the same about you. I don't want people like you or that have attitudes like yours living in my community.

read my posts. I NEVER defended a prostitute. I think it's very sad that a person would stoop to that level to feel any personal worth. But it's attitudes such as yours that takes away any good that a person does and only focuses on the bad. You are part of the society problem, you see. Until attitudes change, nothing will change.

why are you so concerned about her? seems like you have an obsession about knowing all the dirt you can on others. perhaps to overshadow the shallow and hurtful person that you are. that is what a child does: put the attention on someone else so no one sees me and my faults.

she's WORKING though, isn't she?! Some people would just hole up in their bedroom in this situation and not get out and make an attempt to make their situation better. Why ridicule her? Why try to embarrass her further? Or is that just the kind of person you are? If so, that's almost as sad as being a prostitute.

thank you, the_rude_1. When I saw the post from mymaro, I cringed. This is the basis of the problem I referred to in my post. People are very quick to judge and to ridicule others who are "not worthy" of respect. I do not believe these folks deserve any praise, but they still deserve respect. You don't have to be friends with them or invite them to come over to your home, but why TRY to make their lives worse than it already was? I don't understand.

I would like to ask the readers and posters here to use the GOLDEN RULE when dealing with ANYONE: Treat others the way you would want to be treated.

It's not that hard, if you just attempt it and think before you speak or act...

Why do we need to know that she is flipping burgers? What is that going to do but make things that much harder for her. I am not sticking up for anything that she has done but making it a public point to make sure you tell everyone where she is now working is to me, childish and a bit caddy.

gazettefan, I believe that when a person is abused as a child, his OR her ability to learn the difference between right and wrong has been affected. Therefore, his or her propensity to make wrong choices increases. I am definitely NOT making an excuse or saying that suddenly BECAUSE a person has been abused it's ok to break laws or inflict pain on someone else; but merely that we, as a nation, have stopped caring about teaching people the value of healthy relationships and how to treat people in general. This is a community problem, NOT an individualized problem. It WON'T stop until personal responsibility is taken to make sure that the world and the people in it are cared for.

For instance, if your parents never taught you that you could go to them with a problem (such as waking up scared in the middle of the night during a thunderstorm); but if you just get yelled at for being awake at 2 in the morning, you won't learn who to trust, or where to go when you have a larger problem...and won't see anything wrong with walking around at night alone. Children are not receiving the tools necessary to make decisions that will help them. I put a lot of the blame for this problem when the courts started giving children "rights" that they didn't deserve or have the ability to make adequate decisions for their personal safety.

FAN, you are a well thought out person. You know your material and present it nicely.

It's definitly on the left. That goes without saying. That's why I didn't say it.

The reason I mentioned the right is to show that the theraputic industry's well marketed message of sickness is embraceable even by those who reject it when the need suits.

gonzo, I stated that I reject the claim that all people who commit crimes are victims of prior abuse of some sort.

I also stated in my post before that one that character flaws are the responsibility of the person with the flaws. To allow a bad experience to compel you to commit a crime is a character flaw.

Also, the report doesn't say how many total people who were sexually abused as children go on to abuse children later. This figure would tell us the proportion of abused children who later go on to abuse children as adults.

And, the fact that the people in the report are in prison and are recidivists (recidivists tend to be immune to the benefits of therapy) shows that child abusers, as well as other kinds of criminals, are best managed (and at least potentially treatable) and best restrained from harming others by being in prison. Being imprisoned at least has the potential of sending a signal to the criminal that certain kinds of behavior are unacceptable.

There is also the credibility problem. The number of reports of prior abuse is suspect. The therapeutic industry has made the message loud and clear that a sex abuser can mitigate his crime by claiming that he himself was abused.

The posts I disagree with on this blog embrace the general form of the message: if you did something bad it's because you were previously a victim.

When it comes to understanding what motivates criminal behavior the Federal government looks to the therapeutic industry. The therapeutic industry gets its sanction from its claim that it is a science based profession. It is not a science based profession. It is a self-interested, profit motivated, political phenomenon.

Note how people who are politically on the right resent how the therapuetic industry has turned this country into a nation of victims. Then note how when someone on the political right gets caught doing something wrong he all of a sudden has a mental disorder worthy of therapy.

the US dept of justice reports that 2/3 of sex offenders in state prisons were victimized as a child.
http://www.prevent-abuse-now.com/stats2....
this is a govt agency making the claim, not a for-profit therapist.

Dang, I wanted 300

Many of the posts here claim that people who commite crimes are always victims of prior abuse. I reject that claim.

The insidious dynamic of therapy and the preachments of the theraputic industry is that the patient is a victim. How does that involve taking responsibility?

It is the legal system that demands people take responsibilty.

getting therapy seems a great example of taking responsibility. why discourage it?

We should be leery about how the therapeutic community has marketed its wears by pathologizing every manner of bad human behavior. The hook that creates millions of customers/patients is: "It isn't your fault."

The more you attribute responsibility to people who act out bad behavior, the less likely you are of making him or her a customer. The therapeutic community panders to the "patient" because one way or another it's the "patient" who brings in the money. The therapeutic community has successfully turned America into a nation of victims.

Character flaws are not a sickness. They are something each person has to take responsibility for. (Not necessarily because each person created his or her own character flaws but because no one else did.) It is the responsibility of each person to resist harmful impulses.

Be leery of statistics that make everyone or almost everyone a mental case.

Ok, I must know how you people searched the ladies of the night on MySpace. I tried, and I can't seem to figure it out. Yep, I'm one of those....I also frequent TMZ and Perezhilton too....hehe. TIA

I agree again, thank you! Stop what you can, when you can. Make every attempt to stop the cycle.

nope. I won't recant. 1 in 4 boys are sexually assaulted as children. again, innocent until proven guilty. stopping the cycle of abuse should be the #1 priority of community programs, schools, medical practitioners and the criminal justice system.

Let's review what we have learned in this blog. This too, is the community's fault. If there were more strip joints open, we would have less incidences of this type of 'major' crime happening. Also, do not judge this guy as the charges will be reduced, or tossed. He had a bad childhood, too. And lastly, do not judge him as a father; you do not know him. Not every dad that videotapes his pre-teen sons is like the rest. Care to recant, anyone?
*
Do the same thoughts, concepts, and laws apply to both stories?

I know. I am wondering if JPD felt like they "had" to make some arrests since there was such a "news breaking story" related to the investigation last year. That this is sort of a "see I told you there was something going on" story. I just don't think it's as newsworthy (at this point) as they had portrayed/anticipated and had to somehow justify the "sting operation". food for thought...

I guess in all fairness this isn't 15 news, but in my eyes that is a crime worse than what's being done here. Why didn't the gazette jump on that?

right. me too. apparently they felt the need to protect his right to privacy...hmmm...is it the sex of the "alleged criminal" that determines whether a picture/mug shot is printed or the "juciness" of the story?

is the tail wagging the dog??

Thanks Ms Sassy, I saw that artical. I would like to know where his picture is!

more disturbing news can be found on this link...http://www.nbc15.com/home/headlines/16848281.html but it's one more example of just how corrupt the world is and helps us to understand why children grow up to be adults who are "left of center" in logic and moral training, which is pertinent on this comment page, IMO. The stories, arrests and news coverage is so disturbing.

It's all Bushes fault!!!

LMAO!

road, I'm surprized that in your Mar 20, 2008 1:47 post you didn't spell something right just by accident.

Was that a Bible reference?

That may be the most clear he has been today!

ROADXILL, this is my last response to you. I had a feeling you would respond like that. All you see is the word "sex" in my name and assume it is the only word intended to be seen. There are two words in the handle I decided to use, beach and sexton. That is sexton, not sextant, not sex and ton, not just sex. It was an intentional play on words like many of us do. By the way, my thoughts were beachsex and sexton. A sexton is a caretaker of a cemetery. Note your own irony. Even if it were just "sex", how would that be hypocritical? I am not against sex. I am not celibate either. I have an problem with what the girls did. I have a problem with the girls that do not pay taxes. I have a problem with the secondary crimes associated with strip clubs. I also have a problem with the image they cast upon their children intentionally, or otherwise. Like any other addiction, the addict (in this case $$ is the addiction among others) needs to hit rock bottom. After reading the amended "about me" on their myspace pages you get the impression they are nowhere near a point in their life that they will acknowledge change is needed. If they are that far beyond the point of change, there is nothing else we can do for them. All they see is society doing it to them, not for them. Those kids are the ones that we can still help before they are shown a world they stand little chance of escaping.

ROADXILL, I thought you said you were done here? Stop posting! You were done long before you started.

roadxill: beach,Why would you have the name sex in your name ,yet so hypocriticle as to the meaning.

from your earlier post...

gazettefan, I absolutely do NOT know the history of any of the women pictured. I am basing my comments on my personal experience, and my knowledge of the way the criminal justice system works (very rarely is a girl/woman believed when trying to get help after a sexual trauma in this country-and this is one of the best countries to live if you are female). My only advice is to not persecute the women. In America, a person is innocent until proven guilty. Our job as Americans is to vote, serve our civil duty as jurors and educate ourselves and those we have contact with on the importance of making the world a better place when we leave than it was when we "got" here...we, as humans, are failing miserably on that one.

road, in your defense, I should have said:

"road, we are NOT seeing it as just a matter of misspellings and typos"

ms_, something has to be taken from the current situation.

Beyond the explanation you've given so far, what should be taken or learned from the current situation?

Also, do you know for a fact that you are describing these particular women?

roadxill, not to be the angry one here, but who are you, exactly, to decide whose handle is ok and whose handle needs explanation. obviously, mine doesn't need explaining...I'm sassy, and I'm totally OK with that. are you roadkill? oops, did I say that out loud? :)

road, we are seeing it as just a matter of misspellings and typos. You seem to be incoherant.

no one is arguing what the law is, the question is whether this is good law. whether the police are here to "correct" morals or just keep the public safe.

gazettefan, if only it were that easy. It is very difficult to "erase" the tapes that have been recorded and have very damaging, painful memories and thought processes attached to them. I spent a lot of time working with victims of sexual assault and the statistics are staggering. Again, I am not condoning the behavior, but please have a little bit of compassion to try to understand what causes women to have such little respect for themselves and their bodies that they would dance naked publicly in the first place. If a woman is taught that her body is a playground for men and men want to play...and pay as well, you sort of have to give her a little credit for being resourceful enough to realize there is something to be gained to keep up the maintenance of the playground. sorry, but it's hard to completely remove that from the equation.

MS_SASSY_WI may have the best comment on here thus far! Well said

ROADXILL, in all FAIRness, can I ask why you placed quotes around my the sexton part of my handle? (beach"sexton") What was your point?
Also, you never answered FAN when he asked if you were alright. Bling-bling and podunk are not proper nouns, and the non-specific use of the word "god"("Good God,")is not capitalized.

ms_, if the first part of your post is true then this incident will teach them something that they were incapable of understanding (according to you) before the arrests.

road, I'm not a therapist or a patient. My knowledge of the world comes from more places than the Bible.

If yours did too, you'd lose the Bible stuff and have a better grip on reality.

take this or leave this comment. purely my opinion: many women who dance at strip clubs have been taught that they are only here to give men pleasure. they have been abused either emotionally or sexually by uncles, fathers, brothers, etc. (many of course who frequent strip clubs, buy porn on cable, in magazines, etc) and have never recovered from the trauma. many dancers/strippers do what they do as a product of society, not because they feel they can pay their bills or buy nicer things because they have a lucrative income. I also believe that there are exceptions to the "rule", as was pointed out by the woman posting who works as a dancer and appears to have a healthy self-worth. I am NOT endorsing the strip clubs...I am NOT saying that the girls who were arrested should not have been...I am simply asking you to evaluate the way you view women, in general, and specifically...the women in your lives. are they here to cook your meals, wash your dirty clothes, be your sex slave whenever the urge strikes, or is it CONCEIVABLE that a woman can actually possibly be the next president of the united states, hold jobs of value and receive the respect that she deserves simply because she is a human being with a brain, emotions and thoughts who just happens to have breasts and a vagina?

Some little known info on Strip Clubs. The dancers are not employees. They are contract labor. They pay a fee to use the dance/pole area. They pay a portion of their Lap Dance fee to the club. Both of these fees collected by the club are taxes by both the city and state in the form of sales tax. The door cover charge is also taxed. Since these 3 centers for revenue in a club are taxed, it would seem to mean they are ligitimate actives condoned by the city and state, the same as liquor and cigarettes. I'm sure the city and state don't want to give up this revenue brought in by 83 Strip Clubs in Wisconsin.

road, are you all right?

WIHEAT

Yes, I recall the Bare Chest arrests. Similar situation, invoking prostitution laws on cases of incidental touching. I suspect a similar outcome for these arrests. The "event" was more a dog and pony show for local consumption, rather than a solid application of the prostitution laws.

Thought I'd post some advice on how to minister to women in the sex industry. Here's some help to you diamonds in the rough that want out:

http://www.iamatreasure.com/index2.html

Blessings be.

I agree with HEAT. FAN, points well made!

The same thing happened a few years back at the Bare Chest in Beloit Twsp.
When it was all said and done, the charges were reduced to disorderly conduct, fines were paid and everyone went back to work.
The same will probably happen here.

If road.... were in therapy, his therapist would say that he's rationalizing prostitution. That if it were up to him, whore houses would be legal.

And that his biblical references are symptomatic of severe cognitive dissonance stemming from ambiguity.

Please! I worked in Jim's clubs for 4 years. Most girls can't make it with him cause he is the most strict strip club owner you could ever meet. He by know means plays around with that prostitution stuff and actually respects the girls. That's why to some, he is a good friend and some can't stand him. I've seen him call a girl off the stage and fire her on the spot for putting a nipple too close to a customers mouth while accepting a dollar. Prostitution? I think not! Why didn't they pull this stuff BEFORE they spent his $10,000 on some fireworks? Nice huh?

road....., here's the bearing you should have on the word "prostitution" in relation to this story:

It is sex for money absent the usual features of amorous relationships that I'm sure you'd like to attribute to your grandmother, mother, wife, girlfriend, sister, and daughter.

Your mistake is overgeneralizing the act of prostitution and the word "postitution" onto everything else in the world.

Clear thinking requires that we understand distinctions, not just similarities.

ROADXILL, itz h4rd 2 r33d ur st8mnt. plz uz spll chx. Also, please ref. the version of the Bible you are quoting. I interpret the meaning very differently than you have. Are you saying we should not be arresting these girls since they are only a fraction of the whole? An absolute; either all or none? Should we leave all drug dealers, sex predators, murderers too? I mean, if we don't get them all, it will mean no change. If we do not get them all, then it will be unfair to those we singled out. Hmmmm, now that you made me think about it, I still think you are misguided.

I am in a monogamOUs relationship, and I can not remember a time where I considered my wife a prostitute. Nor can I remember a time that I ever had "the need to exchange money and bargain..." for anything! Something is twisted, but it is not the word "prostitution."

road...., are you saying that people who aren't prostitutes ARE prostitutes?

We are talking about prostitution here.

road..., do you think prostitution should be legal?

bil...., I hope garyprimer doesn't make you regret that comparison.

On difference between this "club" and a sushi bar is that the sushi doesn't leave the bar and coerce women who don't work there to try some.

Good point FAN. JUSTA, I hear many songs, and see many videos talking about "pimping" and "bang'n" but I never decided to go into that line of work when I was younger. My mind was still developing. I wanted to "roll on dubs", sport "22's", "be all up in the club", have a "pimp ride", be a "Cha-millionaire", and "get all the big b**ty **'s", and who wouldn't want an endless supply of "ice"? However, I did not let the music tell me what direction to take. I "had 5 on it", but that 5 was the number of years spent in college learning the skills needed in order to further my position in life. As a matter of fact, the song you refer to did not even come out till 2005. They would have been 18-29 at that time. Now what? Did 2 Live Crew influence them? Or will we revert back to it being the community's fault?

justa.... yes, some of those knuckleheads call prison time "college."

Devil...., face the facts on what the issue is -prostitution. Friends and family of those arrested should be hopeful that this incident sends the arrestees in directions other than prostitution.

"touching or rubbing genitalia, breasts or buttocks against another person for money constitutes prostitution."--says the Chief.

This is a very wide construction of the law. If this definition were applied, generally, any customer who placed a dollar in the cleavage of a dancer would have violated the law by touching her breast while paying $1. This occurs, what? 500 times a night at most any strip joint.

I think the city needs to be careful that their undeclared war on "Screamin MeeMees" doesn't constitute harassment.

The Bad thing is the same influences also make going to jail or prison a good thing, which is absolutely rediculous. My wife's cousin is proud that she has charges against her for shoplifting. She is pround that she has done prison time. It just baffles me that they think that this way of life is good.

justa...., yes, in one way or another we are bombarded with reasons to do things we shouldn't do. That's one of the reasons life isn't as easy as we'd like it to be.

If the people in the story are guilty, the way that the world around them is responding to them and what they did should teach them something.

Too bad this is what it takes for some.

I guess I worded that wrong, or didn't fully express what I was meaning. I didn't mean blame per say. You are right, they have the ability to choose their own paths they will take but, in the minds that are developing in the younger generation these days. They see things on television that make Stripping a glory job. For instance the song "I'm in love with a Stripper". This may be the way they feel they need to get their love. Just a thought

beachsexton, I attribute how the postings change during those hours to drunkedness. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

justa.... that darn "society" is keeping us from controlling our own behavior!

What do you do if you don't like a sushi? You don't go to a sushi bar. What if you don't like strip clubs? You don't go to the strip clubs. Me, myself I don't like floral smelling body sprays and perfumes so I stay away from Bed, Bath, and Beyond. You may not approve of the choice these women have taken for a profession, and you have the right to your opinion, but whose to say your opinion is right.
For the most part, these women that are on the front page are decent people. Sure they may use sex as a means for personal gain, but so do actors. I have seen many movies that have had more sex in them then what you would see on a busy night at the strip clubs. The actresses in these movies get paid to be in those movies. Are they prostitutes?.
Don't get me wrong here. I do believe that if any of those women offered an actual sex act outside of the club, or inside ,either way, they should be prosecuted. But for giving a Lap Dance, come on now. I have been to Diamond Jim's on a few occasions and have partaken in a Lap Dance. The women have to keep their g-strings on during a Lap Dance. The only time they are fully nude is on stage where there is the tip rail between them and their customers.
As for their upbringing. That blame should be put on society as a whole. Has anyone seen MTV lately. That lifestyle is glorified on there.
As far as legality of doing the Lap Dances, these women did what they have been told is O.K. All the clubs in wisconsin allow Lap Dances.
Jim Halbach was thinking one night,I should spend $15,000 dollars and get a camera system so I can incriminate myself for prostitution, I really don't think so. Jim is alot smarter than that. If he or his wife were running any prostitution out of his business, they certainly wouldn't want to record it.
The JPD are a little over zealous on this case. They have turned a mole hill into a mountain. Some of the city council members have a bone to pick with Jim because he is not a conformist,as they would like him to be. Most of the city's tavern owners are in that same boat. Government trying to tell you what you can or cannot do in your own business. Jim actually opened the first non-smoking bar in Janesville on his own. It didn't work, but he did try to give non-smokers a place to go. Jim is a brash person, anyone that knows him will tell you the same. He will tell you how he feels and it upsets some people. I really don't think that he would need to run prostitution rings, he makes enough money legally, and to jepordize that would be foolish,and that is one thing that Jim is not.

I doubt that they were just wanting a lap dance. They don't just arrest strippers for lap dances. The cops are doing there jobs. It's the same amount of money they would be spending on any other investigation.

Wow, there is a very different crowd posting on here from 10pm-6am! They really do come out at night.

Does anybody know how much this investigation has cost the taxpayers? I mean, it's been going on since June & all they have to show for it is 10 misdemeanor arrests for LAPDANCES, in a nude strip club, where the patron is dressed. They arrested the women that propositioned the undercover police officers in July, who were from Milwaukee, not Janesville or Beloit. So what this article is telling me, for the past 8 months, they have been investigating a nude strip club, made arrests on the women that propositioned the undercover officers, & arrested 10 more people for a LAPDANCE(which now is a form of prostitution). How much has it cost me for this bullcrap? Can anybody tell me how I can find this out? I really want to know. I can care less what their myspace or ccap pages tell me about them, I want to know how much money Janesville is reaming me for this?

I have to put up A point here and then I'm out..... I worked for A Gentelmans Club from 1994 till 1999 and am very fimilar with the States Laws on this and if you check this out A city alderman in Milwaukee was sued for something similar for this back in 95 or 96! Boobies in the face is legal and butt rubbing on the leg outside of the actual groin area is legal (and very HARD to determine) buying A lapdance is not illegal unless he was one of the ones recieving oral sex, we had many rules that use to keep my 5 floor guys at the time very busy, and we never had violations. Chief Mahan may want to investigate this further because Wisconsins laws on this Biz is cut and dry.......... He came from California and they have VERY VERY different laws on this as one of my co-workers that I use to work with now is out there and says its CRAZY!!!!!!! I totally understand that the city wants to clean things up, but they might want to start somewhere else because of the 10 arrested they may be lucky to get 2, Plane and simple facts here and there is drug trafficing going on at several (regular bars) in town and I never see police presence in those places (Don't give me that well there UNDERCOVER cuz they are so easy to spot and when you think you found one all you have to do is try buying one of them A shot) Janesville has many way more problems than some ugly girl rubbing thier dimpled golfball looking butts on guys groins for A few bucks (and if they didn't do that these places would get no biz) Get the drugs and the dealears out of my town! I can live with strippers but the scum dealing drugs I can live without..........

Everyone has their own levels of accepted risk, and in this case, there's history to support a high level of risk. If you choose to accept it, knowing the history, that's your decision.
I don't think JPD is purposely not solving the armed robbery cases, or even sending in the armed robbers.They just can't be everywhere at any given moment.Armed robbers are not noted for providing advanced notice of the actual robbery.

If we all thought that way there would be no one to work at gas station, grocery stores, fast food places, banks ect. Did you see what described prostitution? Just about everything. If they were humping guys in the backroom then I see a problem. But I'm not reading that.

Your Newspaper Sucks!! You put their pictures and addresses on there for every perv to see?
I can't wait til you get your butts sued.

One case at a time, and each case is different. I'm sure JPD is doing the best they can with evidence they have to work with. It makes sense to me that armed robbers would be harder to catch and prosecute (than prostitutes).They face much harsher penalties (I would hope) than convicted prostitutes, so it makes sense they would put a lot more effort into eluding the police and their methods of investigation.
I hope your son's place of employment isn't further victimized, but if he or you are truly concerned, maybe its time for a new job. It's not worth the risk of getting killed, is it?

Do you realize that in the state of Wisconsin sex between two unmarried people is against the law? Who's business is it? Doesn't matter because it is against the law. Should we be putting manpower towards stopping it? I don't think so.
But we have had a serial rapist, three horrible murders right outside of town, and we know drugs are always a concern. But I think these are higher concerns than lap dancing.

armancay, I beginning to see your point.

The store that my son works at has been robbed several times over the last year. Would that count? I know that having a young lady rubbing her breasts on someones face is pretty serious but I'd rather have the police be available to respond to a armed robbery.

Good point Marylin.

vnrs, you had me going there for a while, you nut!

armancay, are you sure about the "better things" thing.

I'd say He.
Funny though vrns, I've never heard the term 'enema' used in church.
You almost had me thinking your 'meaning' of Easter was colorful eggs, chocolate candy, and Peeps.

Why Marilyn...of course I do....after all...he died on the cross for us!!!

I have people zipping by me 20 mph over the limit and running red lights and this is where police are spending their time? We have gangs forming and
people breaking into places and our Police Officers are getting lap dances. I think our Police have better things to do than this.

vrns: Do you know the 'meaning' of Easter?

Have any of these people charged in the story been convicted of the charges reported in the story yet? No. If convictions of these Class A misdemeanors come down, how will some of you more judgmental posters escalate your game? You've been on fire so far. On the flip side, what will be said about those who may not be convicted? Hopefully none of you hardliners will ever be accused (rightly or wrongly) of something like...say...being a pedophile; the worst of the worst.
I have a hard time believing convictions will be handed down for lap dancing, if that is all some of the girls are accused of.According to the JPD press release, here is the statute the accused have violated:
944.30(2)
(2) Commits or offers to commit or requests to commit an act of sexual gratification, in public or in private, involving the sex organ of one person and the mouth or anus of another for anything of value.
If lap dancing falls under this statute, I'd say legally we have a statewide culture of prostitution; men and women alike. I would think JPD has more of a case than illegal lap dancing, otherwise I can see the D.A. dropping the charges.
If its outrage your looking for, check out the story on convicted rapist James K. Ross and the one year of probation he received for violently raping a woman.

I only thought she might dance like Janis Joplin.

A missed opportunity by the Gazette this week to run a best caption contest. Between these mug shots and the idiots that broke into the liquor store there have to be some good ones.

I'd say 2.5 on the grade point average, tops!

Strippers are always working their way through college and they always have a boyfriend that's a cop. And if you believe that, you probably will believe anything else they tell you.

gazettefan, i havent been to this one. im sure as long as its ok in any other tavern in j-ville they do. when i go to the bars im ALWAYS the driver, and i dont smoke cigs, so i dont know about j-ville. however it is ridiculous that when i drive my drunk friends bar hoppin and get them home safe, im the criminal for catchin a buzz. hah. see...i....cant....stop.....

I must say, BeachSexton, your first comment to LVMD...spectacular, my hat (if I wore one) would be off to you. For a "highly educated" woman...far too many typos, and too many excuses for why she dances. I hear waitressing at a decent restaurant can be lucrative in tips. What do you say when you leave at night? "Mommy's gonna go dance and strip for strange men, earn some extra money so we can go to the Pizza Hut for dinner tomorrow night?" There are better ways to earn extra money and maintain your reputation and decency. Shame on you LVMD for the attempt to redeem your reputation. Not the best example to be setting for your children.

I viewed a few of the girls MySpace profiles last night. Abhorable...words, phrases, (Ms. Keuntjes has since changed her About Me section where she previously had that her 3rd baby is due June 10 and cursed the other girls who've "been with" her "baby daddies" ) raunchy photos of Ms. Whitmore dancing, scantily clad. It was nauseating. One photo she has her crotch and buttcheeks exposed thru her thong panties with the caption "can't wait to go home and do something"...It concerns me to no end that Ms. Keuntjes has 2 small children with one on the way. I thank God that I have a good job and can continue to work to support those children that are without a doubt receiving healthcare through the State of Wisconsin, Food Stamps, Rental Assistance, etc. while Mommy is out dancing, stripping, drinking, and having house parties. I am so glad she's got one more on the way.

I say shame on each and every single one of those girls.

Well GIVEMEABREAK when I was bartendering along time ago he would come in the bar I worked with some other bar owners. He was never rude or out of line to me but I do know that he knows ways of getting around red tape. That is something that he has done time and time again. As for me saying that I sure he doesn't call the girl that was me trying to sound a smart butt!

GAZETTEFAN, I do not think so. That was not the specialty you were thinking of was it. :)

Simmer down, thekid..., all I want to know is can they smoke cancer sticks there? It's a little off-point but not entirely.

Hey, thekid.... are they allowed to smoke there?

a)ive known a few dancers in my day. in fact it was the craziest 3some ive had:) lol and for the few of you who say they could accept state aid instead of dancing, well first youd prolly be the same ones raggin in a blog about them collecting state aid, instead of goin out and 'earning' a living. most of these girls dont pay taxes on their income. plus some of these girls probably do get state aid, cuz they dont pay taxes so uncle sam thinks theyre unemployed. double dipping. 2)ask a bar owner if he pays all his taxes on the liquor he sells. not all bar owners skate the system, but neither do all the girls. d) plus lets not forget there are 'prostitutes' in EVERY profession and EVERY walk of life, these 'prostitutes' just happen to take their clothes off....

I suspect Chelsea has a specialty.

i love how this world has come to looking people up on myspace hannah!

Strippers are always claiming they are finacing their way through college and have 3.5 grade point averages. They need Pell Grants.

“Women are looked at as sex objects”

How about us men that are looked at as support objects? In general guys do admire women for their beauty, but for us guys it’s a whole different story! What kind of car does he drive? Does he own or rent? What does he do for a living? How much does he make? Lastly, what does he look like? Are women really the only ones that get exploited?

Did anyone notice these girls' pupils? Looks like most of them are pinned or speeding. Boy, what a wonderful lifestyle. Too bad. For anyone to disrespect their own bodies the way these girls do, there has got to be some really awful skeletins in their closets. Sure hope they get help before they end up in the morgue.

MOVIN_ON, you said, "...they don't have to pay taxes? No its not it is the government that makes that decision." They don't have to pay taxes? Well, last time I checked the government had decided on this issue. The Act of 1862 did just that! Congress enacted the nation's first income tax law to support the Civil War. It was repealed, but in 1913, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution made the income tax a permanent fixture. If the girls agree to be independent contractors, then they need to pay this on their own, along with social security. As for state taxes, in 1911 Wisconsin enacted the State's first income tax law. You are correct in saying I would be loving it if I made 28% more by not paying taxes. Wouldn't we all? Reality, and laws guide most people to pay taxes. I guess another set of laws will need to be used to guide the rest. As for your last line, I do know what the true objective is here, as does everyone. They say loose lips sink ships. Will these be enough to sink the one they want?

*

KEEPITREAL, you make great points, but reality tells us they will not get the help they need right now. I can only assume they have not had the help they needed prior to this. However, at this point, knowing they will not get a helping hand, they need to make the best of a bad situation. There is help to be found. They can turn this into a positive by seeing it as a wakeup call. There is nothing superficial about me. I just needed you to clarify what you meant before I could understand you. Not a big deal, and sorry if I come across as "superior" in questioning you. I simply wanted to see where you stood. I agree with you to a point now that you clarified. The kids are what matters most at this point. They are not yet able to make choices of their own, and are still under the guidance of their parents as they struggle to make their own good decisions. With that, I agree.

Is that guy a stripper?

beachsexton.. i gues wat i was saying is look around children people live what they know.. if you d like to feel superior to me by correcting me thats fine its my point proven in whole. i blame all of us for things like this because if we as a people wouldnt tolerate this it wouldnt exist. arresting them doesnt help stop the cycle reaching out to them would.
putting them in jail doesnt help because they dont get heard or helped. and i didnt need big words or a superficial stance to say that

Some, who post here say that this place does no harm, leave it alone. Still, most of the men who go there value women as little more than life support for their genitalia. Women who work there, and their female supporters, are so jaded, it seems, that they have accepted their role as objects to be sold to those who respect them none whatsoever. I take issue with a lot of what the feminists stand for, but, on this topic they are right. Women are not commodities for men to purchase and do with as they like. These vile attitudes are reinforced at these establishments, and then sometimes are taken home with the patrons. Someone posted here that we should close the place. If only it were that simple. We live in a country where lawyers and judges have determined that free speech exists in the gyrations of a nude dancer. But, we can prosecute prostitutes, pimps, and johns, who also should be prominently pictured when they are charged.

YOu know what Jim did know what was goin on in his club and he was goin in there himself and "personally" choosing his girls. People are seriously blowing this out of perportion, this girls new what they did but did they think it was illegal? NO they thought it was a lap dance. Maybe i guess since everyone wants to put their sence in they need to define the definition of a lap dance? They were never told they were doing it wrong. If they new i am sure they would not do it inncorrectly, but lets look at the bartender who is the informant or the manager were they saying anything to these girls. Nobody knows any part of the story besides their faces they worked at screemin meemees and they gave a wrong type of lap dance. As far as other people talking about their kids. None of you know these girls and oviously you don't know that when you are bringing home more than what you make in two weeks is a lot more addicting and that is why people fall for the job. Nobody plans to work in a strip joint forever it may just turn out to be that way. they are girls that really do work and do that as their hustle. Should it be our fault that they don't have to pay taxes? No its not it is the government that makes that decision. So for real i think everyone needs to stop talking about how degrading this is or about there kids and what they do you know nothing about them. O yeh i forgot you feel the need to look up there ccap or myspace pages. That still don't make you know anything about these girls. Maybe if you realize this is mainly all about Jim and how to shut him down, because if it wasn't you would look around and realize this goes on at more than one club!!!

ONLYSANEONELEFT and HANNAH, check your e-mail for my response to your questions since they are off topic. CRACKER, you have used some thought prevoking examples, nice.

Excellent point givemeabreak. I have seen a hell of a lot more contact in a regular club than a strip club. A strip club isn’t the only place where debauchery takes place. Strippers, the lowest of the low. They should have aspired to be something better like the CEO of Enron, what a great guy Ken Lay was. Maybe they should have worked for the church. It would have kept them from their heathen ways like it did for Father Oliver O’Grady. You know he’s one that molested all those nice kids out west, what a pillar of the community. There are a lot of outstanding people with those nice wholesome jobs who are a lot worse than these women would ever be. If touching breasts or buttocks against another person for money constitutes prostitution wouldn’t all strip clubs be in violation of this. Let’s say you did it for a drink instead of money, would that be prostitution? If so I better stay out of TASBAGS!

beachsexton, are you a police officer? I kind of get that impression. Doesnt matter...just asking...you dont have to answer.

Keepitreal, well said!! Come on people we are fighting a war, trying to figure which person to elect for president, and worrying about whether we are in a recession or not. But yet this is the big worry in Janesville!! WOW!

KEEPITREAL, you said, "If we as a comunity said hey lets do this together lets make this all right and continue to work that angle then maybe just maybe we would find time to recognize the hurt children." What are you trying to say? Do what together? Make what alright? Do you mean the children of these girls? Do you mean these girls back when they were children? Children in general? Aside from being confused after reading what you wrote to defend whoever you are trying to defend, the only message I left with was you blame the community. Blame the community for letting the girls down in life by prophetically judging them before they made the choice to enter such a reputable profession, therefore causing them to forced to make the choice they decided to make. Confused? Good, because I am summing up what you wrote. You fail to see by them being arrested we are stopping the cycle. Now, if they decide to re-enter the profession are we at fault for not holding their hands and walking through life with them? Wait, I bet you will say they are destined as that is the only life the community has arranged for them. When are these girls allowed/expected to be responsible for themselves, their children, or the community at large?

The issue is not stripping. The issue is prostitution, drugs, and if they care to keep going taxes. Although I think stripping is degrading, I understand that is my opinion. I do not impose my thoughts in hopes the clubs will close. My family does not support these in anyway, but some do. For them, they have that choice. The girls have the choice to strip. They also have the choice to follow the law.

I am a woman and I do not feel degraded, why should I and why should you? Im not doing it...what they do has no reflection on you and me, not that I think what they were doing was wrong, from what I read big deal, small town wants some big news. Ive got more important stuff to worry about, like global warming...

This is crap! These girls have been victimized enough, not by what they do for a living (that's their choice) but by the newspaper in printing their pictures and addresses. I know their is freedom of speech and all, but do we really need to know where they live? If anything happened to anyone of these girls from some idiot stalking them or harrassing them, imo, the newspaper would be liable. Sure this is valid news and the community should be aware, but at the same time their offenses were not of astronomical proportion; the police know where they live, it not like they are registered sex offenders, (something they should actuall be worring about keeping track of.) Come on, do we live in 2008 or 1958? Sex is everywhere, one only has to turn on the tv, its on at all times of the day these days, sure I am a little put off myself by what these girls do, but they are getting paid to do it right, comes down to supply & demand, basic economics people. I think the whole story has not been told, we have only heard 1/3 of it.

sure this is a laughing matter. consenting adults make an attempt at commerce and all these janesvillites start talking like the women's christian temperance union. please save us. save us all

well said REAL. At least im not the only one who thinks that!

Keepitreal Nicely put! I agree!

Listen to all of you talk about whats going on with these girls and this town and these clubs..Are you all serious.. first off these clubs wouldnt be here if it wasnt for our fathers, brothers, sisters, mom's, aunts.etc.( how do you think these girls feel knowing everyone knows and judges them)Great self esteem advice there ( yes folks those are your children out there) really point the finger at the community not the individuals. sittin in your living rooms at night judging others because your unhappy and to weak to do something about it. who cares that they got busted, who cares that they may or may not have done these things. What we should care about are the reasons they did it, where did we fail them that life has become this for them. We as a people allow and even encourage these things by judging, condemming, hating, guilting.. If we as a comunity said hey lets do this together lets make this all right and continue to work that angle then maybe just maybe we would find time to recognize the hurt children. The ones you neglected to spend time with because you were trying to make others see it your way, or wasting to much time trying to appear perfect. Maybe you as a people would find answers instead of making the troubles of others a reason to condemm. Really this town spends more time worrying about drama and bull@#$% that nobody even noticed that they know, or are the people who pay to exploit this market sex sells it always will. The point is its you,YES YOU, your brother, son, cousin, daughter, mom, aunt, are the ones that are paying for this stuff or showing up to dance for the money. Look at yourselves. quit judging your sons and daughters for what you perpetuate with your own self hatred!!!!!!

Rude 1, you sound like you know the Halbachs personaly. I wouldn't have a clue what he would say to girls that work there, or if he calls them nightly. hmmm.. Why would you assume he calls them at all?

I am sure that Jim is calling these girls nightly and reminding them to out there and make me money know matter what you have to do. Come on please no I don't agree with anything that he does, he makes people mad because you let him and Janesville as a city can't really stop him because he knows how to get through the red tape. These girls had a choice of what they do. I really don't think that anyone held a gun to their heads. For the girl who works at the club, I said I feel for the kids and the families. What do you think they are doing right having a party for these girls, heck no. I don't feel sorry for a woman that puts her butt out there knowing that what she is doing is wrong. They are grown enough to do what they do, then they are grown enough to handle the punishment that they get. Oh yeah as for everyone freakiing out about their addresses being put in the paper, if you read the police report in the paper or the court reports the only thing missing is the pictures of the people. Hey if you have all this time to go on and on about this whole thing, take that time and do something to get it closed. This is why Janesville is as bad as it is getting you people complain but don't do a darn thing to change you city.

beachsexton
Don't make assumptions about my kids when you don't know me. My 3 kids do well in school, are involved in extra activities and don't get into trouble. I spend most evenings with my children. I know prostitution is illegal and people should be punished. I was only stating that I think there are more serious issues going on in this world.

Razz, The city allowed the Halbacks too put that place in your city. Has anyone read the actual statute on LAP dances? I wish someone would find out what it is, and clarify what it states, cause I don't think grinding on a persons lap is prostitution.Do people really think that closing screamin will change adult gentelmans clubs? There are over 80 clubs like that in our state. The "choice" will be available to these girls either way. The Halbachs just need to control their place better and have stricter guidlines so this doesn't happen again. Everyone want to blame the girls, and the Halbachs but if men and some women didn't go there, then this wouldn't be an issue. There is a market for this business and people in this city are funding it.

no - yes - no - YES - no - maybe - no - no - NO WAY!

the cop that killed his wife didnt have his address in the paper ...the guy who raped my neice didnt have his picture or address in the paper and got out of prison in 5 years ...our system sucks

The only pictures that should of been posted is of the Halbachs! Because they are the real issue here! I am appalled by some of the comments about these girls. Sure they obviously made the wrong "choice", but Halbach put that "choice" in our City...only to spite City Council!
I certainly hope that Mahan is working to get him shut down! I want this "choice" of employment for young girls out of our city!

I think people need to get off their highhorses and relax. How many people have gone into bars and seen that one girl who drank a little too much, and she's sitting on a guys lap giving him his own personal lap dance? Does that mean she's a prostitute? No! I think it just means these girls were smart enough to do it where the could make money.Are we going to stop selling MENS magizines? Maybe there are some bad apples in the bunch, that is what will need to be changed. Closing the place down? Might happen, but will it stop them from working down the street? no. So what do you want? Trashing these girls, and exposing their addresses so they can be harassed was wrong.

ok people,hang on a second. I understand people are upset,but just because it is written in this paper doesn't make this whole story fact.Hasn't anyone picked up a tabloid? Stories are made out of half truths. Before everyone trashes these girls..maybe you should wait till the real truth comes out.Right now some facts are out there and this paper is running with whatever will sell you papers. So sit tight for a bit. I'm sure things will change in the next few days. But come on people. Be nice. These girls did not set out to hurt you. Get over it.

Keep working hard girls and you'll make it, just like Ashley Dupre. Its good for young girls to have role models.

beachsexton,
that was the most valuable comment here, well said.

TICKLE__32, you said, "You know, there are people running around the streets with guns and selling drugs to kids." If you were spending time with your kids, raised your kids well, kept an eye on them, and did not allow them to run around with enough money to make such purchases, you would not have an issue. You also stated, "I think our tax dollars should be spent on more serious stuff than naked girls dancing." If all of the girls paid taxes on the money they make, like LVMD, we would have more money to spend on police to cover those crimes at the same time they're cracking prostitution rings & drug dealers.

WERPKNARLEY, "lewd and lascivious behavior" is not exchanged for compensation. LVMD, again I stress the point if what you say about yourself is true, then you are an anomaly. You should be upset at the girls for tarnishing your professional line of work. You should work to have the industry's image repackaged, revamped, and remarketed. Maybe you could get the club you work in accredited too while you are at it. The cynicism is not for a laugh, albeit hard not to chuckle, it is to point out the ridiculousness of trying to say nude dancing is something you will be able to be proud telling you children you did. You can support them like any other mom. I would be in favor of you getting help (pub aid, med assist) if it meant you would not be dancing, and showing your children it was acceptable to do. Do you want your daughter to dance, ever? When you dance next time, picture your son looking up at you. Is that ok with you? I am not saying they will, but you are a statistical outlier. You, paying taxes, not using any drugs, not involved in any kind of criminal activities, are a minority. That means if your son or daughter grow up thinking it was ok because mommy did it, and they try to justify it as such, they will be more likely than not to follow the path of your co-workers, arrestees, patrons, and johns. You know your line of work. The girls have been judged individually by some because these girls are 'representatives' for the industry. Sure, it is unfortunate for their families. Sure it makes you, as the honest, clean girl in the industry look bad.

sex and money. the oldest hooks on the planet.

I find it interesting that the most well spoken person in most of these postings is the young lady who works at the club!

yo seabee that couldnt care less post. bravo.

You know, there are people running around the streets with guns and selling drugs to kids, I think our tax dollars should be spent on more serious stuff than naked girls dancing.

Just one question, due we really need to have the photos and addresses of these people in the paper? Yes, I do agree that what they did was not right. But neither is drunk driving, steeling, or bad check writing. Why are their photos and addresses not put in the paper?

I don't think that these girls can simply be called dancers, but I also think that it's time to get past them.

The real problem here is a cancer on the community called jim hallbach. This scumbag actively recruits girls who wouldn't otherwise turn to stripping and this is a result. My hope is that they tie it all back to the hallbachs and they both end up dancing at Waupun and Taycheeda.

Any community that these two move into should be very careful, an evening of fireworks is not worth the sliming that they do to a town. I wish they would stay in Illinois.

lap dancing = prostitution? i dont really think so..
"lewd and lascivious behavior" sounds more correct... but i havent seen the tapes

-LVMD_I don't care what anyone says, these girls and this guy deserve what the got and as far as the on and off dancers comment goes, dancers give themselfs their own rep. I don't care how many people they have to feed or what their story is there is a little thing called self-respect. if they needed the money that bad then they could have gotten state aid or a job at mcDonalds or even donated blood. There is alot of things they could have done for the money. They just figured why go out and get a real job when we can just do what they got caught for. So really you can thank your co-workers for given you as a "drug free, tax paying straight and narrow citizen for given you a bad name as a dancer.

all I have to say is...they made their bed, now it is time to lay in it.

As I posted earlier I do work at the club. I have off and on for several years. I have nothing to hide. I am a mom. I also take care of my mom and brother. I have a regular job. I work hard but some times the money isnt enough. I wish that there would be an article written where girls could give their story. I was not one of the arrested but as a dancer I feel the need to remind the public that not all dancers are bad. I would show my tax returns to any one any day of the week to prove that I pay taxes on what I earn at the club. I would take a drug test any day of the week to show that I dont do drugs. I can also say that I do not recieve public aid to raise my family. I work very hard to support my large family. I do have an education but sometimes its hard to find a job that will pay the bills. I do agree that it was not necessary to post the addresses, names and photographs of the girls. What happens when the girls get stalked now or raped or killed? I have read that people feel sorry for the families and children, will you feel more sorry when one of the children sees their mommy get hurt? What about listing in the paper addresses, names and pictures of rapist, burglers, murderers and child molesters. I do understand that people have their own opinions on dancers, but please remember we are people too and we have feelings. I am sure that this debate could go on and on but what is the point of it. I think that we should all just worry about our own dirty laundry instead of every other persons. I dont see what good bashing a dancer will do. It certainly wont stop girls from dancing or doing whatever they do.

sorry everyone that was grudge i dont want to treated as slow cause i spelled that wrong! ha ha

And hannah i think you must know sum of these girls personaly, and you have a grude or something agianst them humm what did they do. you really dont like amanda and chelsea do you.

I think you have to much time on your hands if you really care about this matter that much. to me it really isnt that serious, a lap dance, that is all these girls did, to me that is not prostitution who ever made that law should of made stipping illegal too!!

you know I was just wondering hannah what is it that you do- you sure seem to have alot of questions and a lot to say about yourself and how degrating the club is. Legal work! FUnny! Waitress! Funny! your really puttin on a show aren't you!?

do you want to know what i think is so funny they tried to hide who the informant is but guess what it is only the ovious and can you guess what else you still are not very good job at (hiding) doing your job informant!!!!!!

When the girls from screamin meemees that i am sure were all humilated write statements about how they feel and their side of the story are you goin to post that in the newspaper on the front page- gee you "arrested" them for the act but are you goin to let them speak upon it?

Oviously if you read the paper real good they were not arrested for doing a sexual pleasure as in sex or oral sex for money. They gave a lap dance. Should they have to go to training to learn how to give one? If that was the case what about the other clubs? I am sure the girls all have their issues and they may all work there for different reasons but who is it to judge them and look up there record? Why do you want to know so much about this person?

Okay for real this is totally funny!! Why isn't Jen listed in the paper and why is everyone so stuck on amanda

Okay ... no fighting in here, Mr. Seabee and Ms. Blondeflutterby!

i also agree that putting those pics up was a nasty thing to do ...but, i suppose ...anything to sell a paper

Spelling is sooo not the issue ...lol I have a friend who is a lawyer...years of law school ...has the worst spelling i have ever seen in my life! Sometimes a person may type really fast which may cause them to have a lot of spelling errors also. Then there is my son who is 9 and can spell anything!

Gee Seabee, sorry if I "offended" you in some way by the choice of my language. I think you missed the whole point of my post. I don't consider it my business basically is what I am trying to say by saying I could care less. I guess I do care or I wouldn't be here commenting, but apparently my choice of words doesn't suit you?? I can, however, spell correctly and form a well-constructed sentence, but I see no comment on that.

Hey blond, you could care less? So, how much then is it that you care? Judging from your comments it seems that you don't care at all, yet you could care less. And if you could care less, why don't you care less? Why do we need to know that you have the capacity of caring less? If you are gonna tease us like that at least tell us how much you care. On second thought, I couldn't care less.

I could care less why the girls chose to become strippers and I could really care less why the johns are there. I said what I said because some people were making it sound like these girls had no other choice but to go into stripping to make ends meet. I simply gave my example to show that yes, it's hard as hell, but it CAN be done other ways, so don't assume that these girls had no other choice. If these girls feel alright with themselves and can make an "honest" living..great..good for them..I'm worried about myself first and foremost and I have enough problems of my own to worry about. I was making a point, plain and simple, that these girls are not "victims" forced into this profession, they chose it. So before you get up on your soapbox and judge me by my comment, I have more important things to fill out my day than to check someone's myspace page or ccap records to "investigate" what kind of person they may or may not be.

Evidently our world is coming to a sad situation where nobody knows how to spell. Do you think anybody will take you and your opinions seriously if you won't take the time to spell your words correctly? On another note, I see the standards at this club aren't very high.

agree with u simple..... the criminals are the ignorant cops wasting money and time picking these girls up for this.... everyone is guilty of sumthing, but lets put the blame where it belongs..... the owners, the cops, and all the ppl. who sit at home on their 'puters slammin these girls as they sit back and have far worse issues in their lives than a couple lap dances. i laugh as all the drug dealers, rapist, and killers roam our streets while our finest arrest these girls! what is our world coming too?

oh and another thing, for those of you who are so judgemental on these young woman, when they finally post the "johns" for this crime..I hope its someone in your family or a close friend..and I hope they put their mug shot nice and big so everybody can rip on them like you are tearing these girls apart.

Wow! How can some of you be so ignorant and small minded? Seriously!? You obviously don't know a single one of these girls personally and if you had you wouldn'nt be so quick to judge. If you had read the article correctly, you would have noticed that prositition is not just intercourse or oral sex, it also includes sexual contact..which well..isnt that uncommon in a strip club. You have no clue why any of the girls became "dancers" in the first place and just because you would never do it, well thats your perogative...don't judge somebody else because of how they earn their living..they did nothing to harm you in any way...and for those of you who have nothing better to do than to read this article and look up their myspace pages and public records, come on now, grow up!! Like somebody had stated before, why the mug shots? If thats the case, why not put them in their for every arrest for every person. There are far worse crimes than a girl "grinding naked on a clothed man."

ok..... i totally agree its the girls who made the choices they made. but puttin the pics up is only a tact to demoralize these chicks! lets see a pic of every perv gettin out of the joint going to the half-way house, or the scums who touch little boys , or the guy who drunk drives for the 60th time. come on, consenting adults here, and what about the fights ect.... downtown every weekend, nothing consenting there!

You shouldnt assume that when someone does something bad that they are a horrible parent. I dont think we should assume that they were all on drugs and were doing drugs and prostitution around their children. Some people do things away from their kids that they would never take home.

Put some blame on City Council...you've got to be kidding me!? Halbach didn't get his way with the City so in spite, he opened the nude juicebar. Now his going around is coming around! All his trashy establishments should be shut down!

The comment about "why aren't repeat drunk drivers' pictures published" was an excellent point.
Too many people with too much money do that kind of stuff all the time would be my guess.
Its not just the gazette that don't publish those, by far.
Theres ALL kinds of funny, unfair stuff that seems to be going on all the time.

"Hannah, what are you jealous?? Usually jealous narrow minded fat ugly girls have so much hate."

That statement screams narrow-minded as well. Just my opinion.

Also, to say that some of these girls are "doing the best they can" and whatever; I worked my way through college in a retail job that left me having to choose between food and bills at times, but I stuck it out and I believe I am a better person because of it. I believe life is what you make it and it all comes down to the choices you make. These girls and johns made choices that they will have to deal with, so let's just hope that they learned something and will perhaps choose a better option in the future.

WOW, Amanda should be proud, according to CCAP, she has 24 incidents in less than 4 years. Rock on girl !!

cjjs, good point. But rules are rules. I have only been in there one time for a bachelor party, I have not been back since then. After seing their pictures, now I know why they keep it so dark in there!!

Sorry for the horrible spelling job :)

Let's remerber back to when Screamin meme's first opened. It was not intended to be a strip club at all. Halbach wanted a sandwich shop that served just beer. The Janesville city council more importantly Pual Williams told Halbach that he needed more parking to get a liquor licsene so he bought some land across the street paid for putting a parking lot in and after that Pual Williams told him sorry we are not going to issue a license because there are to many bars close to GM so Halbach said fine I will open a nude juice bar. So can thank your fine Janesville city council for some of this.

It says there were 10 arrests yet there are only 9 pics...why is Jennifer Lowell's picture not being posted?? Its a lil funny her pic is left out. Could it be she is the informant and the arrest is a phoney arrest to make it look good for her??? Just very very curious why her pic was left out?

The Governor of New York just lost his job for spending $4300 for a hooker. I wonder what the punishment will be for the John's who spent $10? Maybe losing their lunch hour?

Alot of these girls have kids and what is going to happen to them. I have a friend that was in ther for his birthday and after what he told me. I don't feel bad about these girls at all I feel bad for the kids and the families.

Just saying that i believe in more "Program" than "Punishment" for young people

Well, it would be nice if it was a wake up call and if it helped straighten out these young girls lives ...then im all for it. I just dont think it will be for most. I think when some people do the things they do it is because of a much bigger problem. I think they should be forced to take some sort of counseling. I know that some of you might argue that the city shouldnt have to pay to help such low lives but they are people ...and things like this sometimes go on and on each generation. Example...A hooker on drugs raises a daughter who becomes a prostitute who is also hooked on drugs herself. if the communtity helps ...it helps the next generation. These are young girls ...who will have children some day...would be nice to see them turn there lives around while they are young before they get older and into much bigger crimes ...again ...my opinion

I do not agree with your opinion, but you can have whatever opinion you want. A law is a law. I am sure they are after bigger fish here. These girls are just the bluegills of the pond. Maybe the girls (and guy) will learn from this and move on. I would bet that if they wouldn't have been arrested, and someone else was, they would have just moved to the club down the road. Think of this as a wake up call. An expensive one, but maybe a life saving one too. And yes, I would be in favor of having equal photo time for the johns. Ohhh, the papers it would sell!

OH, and btw, Beachsexton, when i made the comment about it helping crime...i stated that was (IMO)IN MY OPINION ...not asking you to agree with me

Correct me if im wrong...but wasnt one person just accused of selling pot?? Damn, you would think they just went out a murdered a bunch of people. Hurt my feelings. Don't do it? Are you telling ME not to do it? Dont worry, im not a dancer and dont plan to be. Ive had the same for 15 years and its credible. Just thought some of people went a little overboard and said some cruel things. I do not agree with prostitution. I just dont think every dancer was a prostitute and a drug dealer...just a few bad apples. A young girl that needs counseling.

HANNAH, do not let them bait you. You made some good points. ONLYSANEONELEFT, "Im sure they had friends and family that didnt know about their jobs and they are absolutely humiliated." So don't do it! "Go catch some...drug dealers." Looks like they did just that. One was nabbed for possession w/intent to deliver. Is that ok, or will you now quantify that into the amount she can have before it is bad in your eyes? "Strippers reduce rape and molestation?" Wow, I am not sure how to respond to that w/o shutting down this blog or hurting your feelings.

Amanda, that is one girl! If she has that many convictions maybe she needs some help straightening out her life. Some people who have a bad start in life do need some help. Our system, most of the time, just throws them in jail and on probation and forgets about them . I think that there should be a program for young people who have a history of problems. People just dont care about each other ...they would rather tear someone down then lend a helping hand.

Well, im sure some of them look a little better when they have there make up fixed and they havent been crying or upset. And, im sure i know what you mean, Hannah, when you say "strange" parts. I just it funny that you cant say "crotch" or even "private area". Strange? We all have same parts ;)

Hannah,

If you are working your way through college, how did you pass high school? You really have bad grammar and typing skills. Maybe if you could spell and write, you could find something better than waiting tables....

Anyone wonder if Halbach is going to sponser the Janesville Jaycees Fireworks this year. He has pleanty of fireworks going on with JPD.

i am mr pothead, thank you. any pot related questions?? ill be happy to help. so you know your dad went to one in madison when he was young, and only watched. hmmm i dont know yer dad so im by no means sayin what he did or did not do, but IF he did touch a girl there, how and why would he tell you about it?? 'hey sweetheart, you should hear what i did when i was a kid....'

Hannah- I never blamed society. I said that "It would be interesting to keep an investigation on the clientele - it takes 2 to strike up a deal, to exchange money and to perform a service (or "get one"). Everyone is ripping on the strippers, but they obviously make money- so who is paying them?" ! I am talking about the fellas that keep them ''working''. The girls are doing the best they can with what they've got, doesn't mean I'm not blaming them for getting themselves into this situation. But there is 2 sides to every coin, or in this case, 2 sides to every dirty dollar bill. Be careful with that dollar hannah! You don't know where it's been! Guys that are horny enough to PAY to watch these desperate girls dance naked are just as creepy. And they are really disgusting and perverted if they are paying for oral sex and 'sexual contact'. It's sad to say that this is the oldest profession in history, and it will always be around, hiding in grungy old buildings in every community. Because it will always have "patrons" with money.

Most of them sooo young. Young people make mistakes. I just dont think a certain person on here should be judging them so harshly when she probably isnt perfect herself. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

No, Hannah, your husband told YOU he was grossed out ...lol

hannah you are very bitter did you get fired for the same thing? just wondering

*correction* ...i meant "the scarey ARE NOT out there trying to force it on someone" there would be a lot more rape and molestation if the crazy guys had no where to go

I have seen better looking "talent" in central Wisconsin. I would hate to see what some of the "John's" that hired these women looked like.

Very depressing. Clearly, both the dancers and their 'clients' have issues. I feel sorry for these girls.... they need lots of help. But i also agree.... LET'S SEE PICS OF THE 'CLIENTS', TOO. Am I wrong, or were they not also breaking the law??????

Hannah, what are you jealous?? Usually jealous narrow minded fat ugly girls have so much hate. Im sure these girls feel bad enough. Walk a week someone's shoes before you judge them. Im sure they had friends and family that didnt know about their jobs and they are absolutely humiliated. Its sad...i feel bad for them. This world is really coming to an end when the law is so worried about stuff like this. Go catch some rapists ...killers...drug dealers. I know its tough to chase the real crime when you've got all the prostitution and dance clubs to bust. IMO ...these dancers probably stop a lot of girls from getting raped because they give some of the perverts there fantasies and the scarey guys are out trying to force it on someone.

number one they are not victims, they chose to do this. their dancing for a living does not bother me, its the other things they are accused of doing that bothers me. how degrading to have to sell yourself to make a dollar, i hope this will be a wake up call, and they do something different with their lives than this.and for all you people out there that are so judgemental and right down mean, i bet their are no skeletons in your closets. as far as the halbchs are concerned, they need to clean this club up, and pay more attention to what goes on their. icant understand why he doesnt close the strip club and open a restaurant.

The 10 misdemeanor arrests..That is one of the first things that jumped at me. My God, some of you are talking about jail time etc. I don’t think there were any banks robbed here. Have any of you gone to a beach and seen two people hugging, holding what ever? The "clothing" there is min. at best. The laws are written to be very non-specific. If one is clothed and the other in a thong is that then prostitution? It does say naked from what I read. One rubbing naked on the other clothed. If there was intercourse of any kind, yes arrest them, if not what is the problem? Do you think for one minute that the patrons went there for orange juice only? Hannah amazes me with her comments. She talks about people being naked like it is so bad. My bible knowledge is not so great, but seems like the Garden of Eden was a naked place until sin was brought into the world. No I am not comparing a club with the Garden of Eden. As far as the Movies 10, seems like I have seen blood, gore and mostly naked actors on stage there. If an “actor” in a movie gets naked and “acts” like they are having sex is that prostitution? Do you think for one minute that all the girls are there to have sex with the men? I think some perspective is needed here, and no Hannah I have never been to that club, I chose not to.

lots of people judgin these girls and this establishment. 'prostitution..includes...sexual contact' like the idea of a strip bar or not, this is what a strip bar is FOR. like it or not they do provide a service, and dont be naive to think your husband/father/brother/SISTER OR MOM hasnt been there. like theyre just gonna tell you?? the way i see it is this establishment that offers a service had a couple employees go to far. there are bad employees in all jobs. look outside your cubicle, or better yet, check your own closet....

Irresponsible journalism??I dont think so Theyre victims? They knew exactly what they were doin and laughing all the way till they got caught.I know one of these so called ladies..She lives right by me,she has more men in & out of her house on a daily basis (with her 2yr old daughter at home as well )its discusting.Ladies arent prostitues.ladies dont strip for money either!!I feel no remorse for her or any of them, they knew what they were doin and as far as the journalism..THANK YOU for posting the pictures.Now maybe they wont be so cocky & change thier lives due to embarrassment.I for one want to know whats happening in the town I live in.So the pictures helped me know who is who.Bet you none of these girls will stop this either..Its preety sad

Why havent the managers and owners been charged they let it go on they are just as guilty

How can you people pass judgment so easily? They have not harmed anyone...

** I think it is irresponsible journalism to post pictures and addresses of these young ladies.

IMO, they are the victims of an exploitive system.

Who is running for sheriff or re-election in this podunk town?

for the record screaming meemee's does not pay by the hour. there is no checks or paper trails. The girl has to come in, dance, and pay the house so much money, pay the bouncers so much then pay the dj. on the weekends she has to pay more. then all of the tips she makes she keeps, after jim and rebecca get their share. they know what is going on. they get cash every night for it. they have a monitor for the "VIP" room where everything is recorded. jim has a monitor at his house where he can watch the VIP rooms for diamond jims and screamin meemees'! But they won't be charged?? They should burn down the place and build an aquatic center .

There is a reason that "juicebar" is still open. Men and women pay 10$ to walk in, sit down, drink 3$ cans of pop and watch these ladies perform. Then the strippers ''mingle'' through the crowd and find a guy to hustle. They strike a lapdance deal and take them to the back room - the bouncers know this because they take a cut from the money earned by the stripper. I have seen this happen and I know a girl who used to dance and I got to meet a lot of the other dancers who would hate the guys but they hustled and flirted for the cash. AFter you get to know them, you find that alot of these poor girls have severe issues (tramatic childhoods) and usually were sexually abused, all of the ones I met were abusing drugs in order to handle the job. Why is this place here? Because there is a lot of lonely guys in this town who pay cash (even illegal mexicans who work under the table at "real businesses" olive garden, riverside, any restaurant that doesn't require english to cook in the back) and who do NOT pay taxes to see naked girls who will talk to them. It would be interesting to keep an investigation on the clientele - it takes 2 to strike up a deal, to exchange money and to perform a service (or "get one"). Everyone is ripping on the strippers, but they obviously make money- so who is paying them? !

The gazette is doing the samething the people in the article did. Show a little out front so you keep looking inside.

JESSICA M. WHITMORE, 21, of 5614 N. Kennedy Road, Milton, at 7:45 p.m. Saturday at Screamin’ MeeMees, 402 W. Delavan Drive, Janesville, on charges of possession with intent to deliver marijuana and prostitution...
so cops are investigating the place and she carries weed on her...very smart girl...very smart.

So wait..was screaming meemee's such a hot spot that people traveled from Milwaukee and IL to work there? At least sign up at Diamond Jim's~ they serve alcohol there so at least both the ladies and their "gentlemen friends" have an excuse!!

Who does it serve and what is the purpose of posting their photos on the front page of tonights paper. Although I may not agree with their actions, I don't see the purpose of publicly humiliating these people.

I want to congratulate lvmd on being so open with her comments. While I do not agree with the type of business she's engaged in, I also know that there are honest & dishonest people in every line of work. We all have rules & regulations to follow. Some do, some don't. As she put it, who are we to judge what she does? As Jeus said, "You without sin throw the first stone." What she does is between her & God. It would be nice if everyone was as open as she is. Way to go lvmd. You should be proud of the fact that you are willing to stand up to people who will belittle & persecute you for what you do. I applaud you.

WOW. I don't know what this place was putting in the fruit juice, or if all of the lights in this fine establishment were all burnt out, but come on. These are some nasty looking strippers! LOL!!!!

Do not want.

LVMD, how can I find you credible about your taxes when what you are describing is an anomaly, you exaggerate your education, and attempt to justify stripping as a legitimate way of taking care of your kids. LVMD, do you receive medical assistance provided by the State of Wisconsin taxpayers? If you are clean, then good for you. Keep stripping to support your kids. As for the people you are defending, they have Myspace pages that tell a very different story. One of the fine ladies above has a series of photos, one for each of her kids. The name of the album is "babys daddys" with photos of each of her many children either with his child or with a pic of the corresponding father taken at the Rock County Sheriffs Dept. visitation booth (behind glass and in jumpsuit).
Another one of these girls had a picture of a guy posing with a pistol in his pants talking about how the two of them were drunk and high the previous weekend. I should say that girl also had at least one or two kids. Her description of herself also states "live at mom's house". I bet mom is babysitter for the night when she is 'out'.
Ok, so you are the saint of the bunch; Congratulations. Can you agree there is more drug activity & crime associated with a strip club than around Gander Mountain, Hobby Lobby, or Firestone? Remember, prostitution is illegal, tax evasion is illegal, drugs are illegal, theft is illegal, drunk driving is illegal, and so on? Stripping is not against the law, the derivatives are. Nobody cares the cops are there because they are not buying blow in the backroom or parking lot. They are not taking strippers home for sex in exchange for money. Let's get on the same page here.

No jail for these girls with our D.A.

If they can name some of the patrons they "danced/performed" for they may get a plea bargin and only have to pay a minor fee.

If they do get jail it would be interesting seeing them dance with an ankle monitoring braclet.

Chelsea lap dancing on me is a mental image I can do without.

Guess it just proves the old saying "One Mans Junk Is Another Mans Treasure"!!!!!!!!! Guys pay to see these girls or at least they pay to come into the place and ahhh well ahh you know.

Gonzo:
Is this something you know, or is it something you believe?

I guess I feel the need to clear up issues. I am not ashamed to say that I work at the club and have off and on for 4 years. I am highly educated and have a regular job. Its a possibility that I even speak to any number of the readers on a daily basis. None the less I do this job because I raise a large family. I have danced many of places in the last 12-13 years. I can guarentee you that clubs across the nation give dances the same way. I am not saying that all girls are right or wrong in the way they dance. As for the above comment about the IRS and if girls pay taxes on what they make I can honestly say yes I do. I claim my tips every year and have since I started doing this job. I really think that the public is missing a lot of views. I would be willing to bet a week salary from both of my jobs that at least half of the readers or their spouces have come to the club and enjoyed a dance or stage presentation. I can personally say that I have danced for many of police officers and public officials from the area on numerous accounts. I know my dance is clean and all money I earn goes strickly to the raising of my family. As for the girls being ugly what do you expect when they arent dressed for a picture. I know all of these girls are very attractive ladies. I can also tell you that each girl signed a contract informing them of what is not allowed and that if they choose to do naughty things that they will be held resposible for their actions. The reasons a person may choose to dance are many. I know that it is unfair to judge a person because of what they do for a living. If a person actually had a chance to talk to one of girls on a one on one basis you may be surprised. I myself have been questioned by the JPD and have answered everything honestly and acurately. On a final note it is no secret that the economy is not in the greatest of states. It can be hard to find jobs. Every girl has there own story, there own reasons and their own perspectives. The only person I am concerned about judging me is the good lord himself and I will deal with the good lord himself in the end.

no, it doesnt spill out into the community at large. this place is in an industrial zone and operates in the wee hours. its bars in the heart of downtown that spawn trouble.

Gonzo you are so right! Purveyors like Halbach are only performing a public service, the dancers are not exploited, the customers not debased, and the debauchery within never spills out into the community at large.

gonzo-"Stay out. its that simple."? Not this time pal-it's illegal.

Isn't there a picture missing of one of the prostitutes....excuse me...dancers....Jennifer Lowell 31 of Janesville.

halbach isnt forcing this on anybody, in fact theres a cover charge just to get in. dont like it? stay out. its that simple

Sorry that should have said, know you are a prostitute not knowing.

Janesville is a pretty small town. How embarrassing that your parents and their friends and co-workers are probably all reading this and knowing you are a prostitute.

I think Miss Reik and the "Smiling Craig" from the liquor store burglary would make a nice looking couple......

Do jail time, unknown? I doubt it-another story in this same edition of Gazettextra has a guy commit a violent rape and get a year probation. Why would a guy willing to pay a willing partner get jail time? If he does-there's more wrong than we could ever imagine.

Great work JPD, you're on a roll! Now call in the Dept. of Revenue to see if the "independent contractor's" are paying their share of taxes, social security, and being honest on their public/medical assistance applications. Doing so will net even more arrests. Will these girls be eligible for Rock County Job Center job training at the expense of taxpayers? I mean, they are displaced workers now.

+1 billnewbie

billnewbie---LOL That's the funniest thing I've read in a long time.

I stand corrected. I now realize that the owners of this fine establishment where ladies remove their clothing for the clientele is simply an effort on their part to educate and dispel myths about female anatomy. Obviously, if contact occurs between employees and clients, the management discourages this behavior as it disgusts and repels paying customers who come for the information and the fruit juice.

I too am completely shocked that this could happen in a strip club, of all places ;)

To say an owner wouldn't profit from this activity is not exactly correct. Directly? No. Indirectly.? Yes. I would think the activity in question might bring in more patrons.

gmamabear...i don't know why they feel the need to put mug shots in only certain stories, but when you get arrested it is public record and so is your mug shot

Doc- You would say he knew nothing about it?? they are not talking about sex they are talking about contact....you mean to tell me he never saw any of these lovely ladies sit on a mans lap and grind?? hmmmm, he needs a trip to the eye doctor

i feel sorry for them.in order to live they felt it nessesary to do this.but what aggravates me to no end,why put their pictures in the article?every day i read about people with 2nd,3rd,and so on arrests about drinking and driving,which by the way can and lots of times does kill,how come those mugshots never seem to make the paper? sorry if that upsets anyone but this is truly unfair.

Gary you are absolutlly right I'm sure the Halbachs had no idea this is there business and they were not profitting from these girls extra activaties, its A source of income for the Halbachs and I know Jim and he would not go for this at all I have seen him fire girls on the spot whom he suspected of such things and why would he put his business in jepordy over these stupid girls........ I have worked in this biz before and know just how sneaky the girls can be!

Rats! There goes the donation for the 4th of July fireworks. Now what's the city going to do?

I'll bet that the Halbachs had no idea that any of this was going on and are just as shocked as the rest of us are.

There must be some way to close this place and put the owners in jail. They are running a criminal enterprise. The owners certainly know what's going on and are profitting by it.

The article says:
"Based on undercover operations and video evidence seized with search warrants last summer, the investigation is ongoing, and more arrests are anticipated, Mahan said."

I'm guessing these weren't recent infractions, but people caught on video from last summer. It may have taken this long to identify them.

Also, it says more arrests are anticipated. I bet anyone who visited there last summer will be shaking after reading this story.

And yes, the mug shots are pretty funny (ok...innocent until proven guilty and all that...)

What happened to RUBBINS RACEIN? This is gonna cut way down on these poor girls lap dance income LMAO! Look at these pictures what the heck were guys thinkin? Miss Reik must think its A glamor shot, and poor poor Miss Lilly she looks scared (that or she needed to make more money that night and getting busted screwed that all up......... This is way too funny what were these girls thinking 3 had already been arrested so you know your being watched, its like running A stop light in front of A cop!!!!!!!!!!! HAHA