GM layoffs will create short term struggles
JANESVILLE — Flooded by workers displaced from General Motors, its suppliers and other non-automotive manufacturers, the local economy is expected to sputter in the short term.
How it fares in the long term, however, will likely be a matter of community attitude and hard work.
“There will be short-term economic struggles, and we’re already in a recession,” said Steven Deller, a professor of agricultural and applied economics at UW-Madison.
“Morale will be low, but the community has to come together, say we knew this was maybe coming and figure out how to keep its chin up.”
Of course, Deller said, keeping one’s chin up makes it easier to get hit, which is exactly what happened last week to Janesville when GM announced that it would cut second-shift production in July and eliminate at least 750 local positions.
GM’s announcement is expected to ripple through local suppliers and put hundreds more out of work.
Janesville’s unemployment rates, which have been averaging between 5 percent and 7 percent for years, likely will climb this summer. Tighter consumer budgets likely will affect area retailers, many of whom suffered through 2007 and the nation’s worst retail performance in five years.
But observers say houses will continue to be built, bought and sold, companies will expand or relocate to Janesville and small businesses will bud.
Even the $140 million hospital and medical complex proposed for Janesville will be built on a schedule and open in 2010, a spokesman said.
Housing industry
Local real estate agents and homebuilders predict a difficult summer, but the struggle is not expected to be long term.
“We’ve been talking about it extensively, and there certainly is going to be an effect,” said Tom Wellnitz of Wellnitz & Sarow Builders in Janesville.
Consumers are likely to tighten their belts, Wellnitz said, noting that community morale has been beaten down by national news of a housing crisis and now the local news of extensive layoffs.
“We go through rises and falls all the time, and this certainly doesn’t help,” said Wellnitz, who is also president of the South Central Wisconsin Builders Association.
Wellnitz and Dan Kruse, president of the Rock-Green Realtors Association, said they don’t expect displaced workers will pull up stakes and leave the community. Most, they said, have strong ties to Janesville and Rock County.
“Some of the new home purchases that people were expecting might not take place, but it won’t be that 750 people will all of a sudden sell their houses and leave town,” Kruse said. “There will certainly be a short-term economic factor for everyone, but I don’t expect it will be a really huge thing for the housing market.”
Wellnitz said Janesville is a safe, comfortable town that continues to be a bedroom community for a much larger geographical area. He recently built a house in Janesville for someone who moved from Michigan to a job in Beloit.
Wellnitz and Kruse said tighter budgets might prompt people to remodel rather than build or buy new.
Randy Borman of Coldwell Banker Success in Janesville said he expects some downsizing in the housing market as people look at less expensive homes or take a GM buyout, move into retirement mode and buy condos.
“What we could see is some price pressure on the lower end of the market, those homes in the $100,000-$150,000 range,” Borman said. “That could provide some real values on the $150,000-$200,000 market, where things have been pretty inactive lately.”
Business retention
How the Janesville area approaches its latest challenges will go a long way in determining the community’s success or failure, said Deller, the UW-Madison professor.
“The community needs to look at this as an opportunity, not a threat,” he said. “It needs to say, ‘We can overcome this,’ and then roll up its sleeves and get to work.”
Deller said that work should revolve around business relationships that already exist in the community. Economic development groups, he said, need to get out and meet individually with existing businesses.
“They need to get out, say, ‘We’re glad you’re here. How are things going, and is there anything we can do for you?’” he said. “Those conversations build a sense of community and identify problems that need to be fixed.”
With a pipeline full of displaced workers, James Otterstein said local business and economic development leaders have their work cut out for them.
Relationships, both those that already exist within the community and those that could lead to new businesses, are critical, said Otterstein, Rock County’s economic development manager.
“We need to be ready to deploy when a project presents itself,” he said.
Doug Venable, Janesville’s economic development director, said there’s no quick fix to the impending layoffs and the short-term economic trouble it might create.
“We can hope that the sport utility market stabilizes and that gas prices drop,” he said. “Is that likely? If I was a betting man, I’d say no.”
Venable said city, county and state officials need to work with General Motors and the United Auto Workers to make sure the Janesville plant continues to have a product to build.
If that ultimately fails, the community needs to continue its efforts to diversify the local economy so it’s not as dependent on the auto industry, he said.
Often, Venable and Otterstein might not even know that potential new businesses are considering Janesville. That’s because so much legwork is done online before any official contacts take place.
“We do know that when a company does approach us, we can tell them that for every job they’re seeking to create, they’ll get eight to 10 résumés,” Venable said.
Often, Venable said, displaced workers come with state and federal training dollars that could appeal to a company considering Janesville.
Business recruitment
In its efforts to solve an immediate employment problem, Janesville needs to be careful, Deller said.
“There will be tremendous political pressure to do something big, get that big employer into town and get a picture in the paper of the ribbon-cutting ceremony,” he said.
Big projects are fine, he said, but the community must also focus on developing new small businesses.
That approach, he said, is particularly applicable now because some of the people who leave GM will do so with retirement or buyout cash in their pockets.
“I think there will be a large number that look at the situation and say now is the time to get out and do something different,” he said.
Janesville and other communities have a long history of small business start-ups that have grown into multi-million-dollar operations.
“A lot of these people are very smart,” he said. “They may have a great idea about a product or a service, but they’re just not good business people.
“That’s where outside help is needed, and the fact remains that most jobs in this country are created by small businesses.”
Is it better to get one new business that employs 100 people or get 10 new businesses that each employ 10?
Deller argues for the latter, saying the chances for long-term success and diversification are far greater.
“The real difficulty in judging how well Janesville will come through is predicting how the community will react,” Deller said.
“There’s a major psychological impact with this, and consumer confidence that already has been plummeting is probably at an all-time low right now in Janesville and Rock County.
“Attitude is huge. Is the glass half empty or half full?”
May 7, 2008 at 8:03 a.m.
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Hopefully most people took their parent's advice and saved. Granted it is hard to save, but in times like this it becomes more obvious how important it really is. With that aside, I hope that the people who are struggling right now, remember that at the end of the day, the only thing that counts, truly, is the health of their loved ones. Money comes and goes, it is a circular motion, and will eventually come back if you can keep a positive attitude and not give into the hardship. I know this is a real far fetched hope, but if we just live day to day, and don't look into the future and create more grief than necessary, depression will subside. After all, who knows what tomorrow brings? Today could be your last day, so live it to the fullest.
May 7, 2008 at 6:35 a.m.
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Zoom,
You are correct - prices in Janesville have been edging down over the past year. I've seen that, too.
I think the only way to find out how much credits are given back at closing, and therefore the "real" price is to work with a realtor. But when I was working with one a year ago I noticed a few things 1) Nothing in Janesville was selling for asking price and 2) almost every buyer was getting something back. If you check the Janesville parcel web site and see they paid more than asking, they definately got money back.
Over the past 10 years, there has been little appreciation in J'vlle home prices. Any increase in home prices seems to be an artifact of more expsensive homes being sold.
May 7, 2008 at 2:59 a.m.
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My hubby has been laid off for about 2 months from Allied, so I know how difficult things are and will be for those who have similar circumstances coming. I have been a stay at home mom for years so we have really felt the hit. My husband receives no sub pay, just $355 deposited in our checking account each week. I have friends who work at GM. Some of them have spouses that also work outside the home and many have a ton of debt, including campers, motorcycles, boats...you get the idea. These people can't even afford to go McDonalds when they are not working. We made the decision that an expensive home the 150-200,000 range and expensive toys are not worth me being away from our children and them being in daycare. I am very glad we made those decisions or we would have it even harder than we do today. There will be some who choose to go forward and make the best of a poor situation and others who will wallow in their grief and lose everything, possibly even their families. I for one am hoping that home prices come down. I look at what my husband made the last few years and wonder how other people do it. How do they pay $1500 in house payments and taxes etc. Maybe it is time we learn to live simpler. Maybe then our economy will improve as well as the the lives of the general laborers among us. One can only hope.
May 6, 2008 at 10:59 p.m.
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+1 mikey. I always read comments from those in the real estate business with scepticism. It is in their best interest to keep prices high, so they always paint a better picture of the market than it really is. I have been reading the MLS for the last year and a half, and the gradual reduction of values is obvious. I wish I could get transaction prices. We don't see what sellers have to give back (allowances; closing costs, etc.) to keep the price a little higher on the books.
If money is tight, people won't remodel either, which will further hurt the building material suppliers. I think we will see more demand for rental property after the buyouts and layoffs.
May 6, 2008 at 9:40 p.m.
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dkush21:
Taxes go down? You've got to be kidding - the assessed value WILL decrease, but just increase the mill rate.
My heart goes out to all the persons being laid off.
Just for the record, I was ticked off at the realtor saying it wouln't have much of an impact. No, all 750+ homes will not hit the market tomorrow, but imagine what having even 75 additional homes (a conservative 10%) on the market will do to home prices in Janesville.
Today - 639 homes on the market in Janesville + 75 hypothetical for GM and related companies, so image there will be 714 homes on the market. Currently 159 of those homes are listed between 150K and 200K (over half of the 639 homes for sale are 150K or above).
Who is going to have the income to buy those homes? Who's going to be able to buy your house so you can afford to buy that home? You wont't sell your house at the price being offered? Okay, there's at least another 75-80 homes to look at that will fit my needs.
What's really scarey? At least 72 of those 639 homes already for sale are essentially spec homes. What is even more frightening? Janesville has more homes for sale per capita than Madison! But no, Janesville is not overbuilt!
May 6, 2008 at 6:40 p.m.
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Mikey:
Does that mean that my property tax will go down if the value of my home goes down!
May 6, 2008 at 2:45 p.m.
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Boy, I never thought the demise of General Motors would cause Janesville to go into a civil war. It just never ends does it? Compassion is really what we all need. Period.
May 6, 2008 at 2:39 p.m.
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ETOWNTOMILTON....Ahmen!
May 6, 2008 at 2:10 p.m.
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"My dollar doesn't mean anything because I'm not a GM employee" is a common response on this board.
To be honest, not ONE person's dollar or disposable income means that much. But, when you're talking about 1,200...that means something. That is significant. One single GM employee doesn't make a difference in the local economy.
But if you think that 1,200 employees being laid off won't make a difference in the local economy, you are wrong. Plain and simple. It has nothing to do with GM or non-GM. If Lab Safety or Blain's did the same thing, if would have a big impact as well.
750 people from one employer at one time losing their jobs is a big story. No matter who the employer is.
May 6, 2008 at 1:36 p.m.
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pick-n-save is a chain too..... It doesn't necessarily, to me, matter if it's mom and pop or big box....and I am saying that as a small business owner. If, as a community, folks focus on only patronizing mom and pops, the big boxes will also close up shop. If Applebee's closes because folks are dining at The Bistro instead, Appleebee's employees will no longer be able to spend their disposable income in the COMMUNITY because they are without a job and source of income. Of course, I want people to patronize my business over a big box chain. But, at the end of the day, we're all folks just trying to earn a living.
May 6, 2008 at 1:12 p.m.
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I want everyone out there to know, first and foremost, my thoughts and prayers are with every individual and their families in this time of transition. I was a GM employee for 10 years until Dec. of 2006. I saw the drastic amount of changes that were taking place in just that short time. I had a feeling that these times would soon be approaching and decided to "dig my well before I got thirsty" (I looked into other options for my financial future) Here's my point: I am no rocket scientist, infact, I don't even consider myself that smart period. All it took for me was to be open minded as to the possibilites that are out there in this land of opportunity. I found it! I chose to not let GM dictate my future, but, take control of it myself. I'm way overqualified to be blessed with what I've been able to accomplish! The internet has opened up a massive window of opportunity for ANYONE who dares to think outside the box and dream big!
With all of my heart, I urge everyone who feels that there is no "avenue" for them to turn to in these trying times, MOVE FORWARD! There has never been a more opportune time than right now! If I can do it, anyone can! I wish everyone God's blessings!
May 6, 2008 at 12:21 p.m.
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I think that the Gazette should contact Mike Moore to setup a free viewing of Rodger, and me for the Janesville GM workers, council members, and county board before new tax dollars are spent on a budget.
May 6, 2008 at 11:32 a.m.
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optimism- Thank You !!
May 6, 2008 at 10:53 a.m.
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Diamond Back....I think it is admirable that you said you are sorry for offending "some". Although, from experience, you can't please all of the people all of the time. So, as long as your consceince is clear, that is all that matters, because most ot the bitter ones on here won't acknowledge you when you say something of peace....they can't attack that. Anyway, I am glad to have neighbors such as you and JUSTSAYNO, who find compassion in their hearts and treat others with dignity and respect even though others don't do the same to them.
May 6, 2008 at 10:08 a.m.
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There could easily reach a few thousand people laid off by the time this is said and done on top of the other manufacturers that have laid off workers outside of the auto industry like Stoughton Trailers and Simmens. Most unrelated people who seem to be GM haters won’t see the effects right away until people start running out of unemployment and savings and stop buying other products and services in the area. The city will survive and come back, but don’t expect this to happen overnight. This will be a long term issue. It is important the Janesville acts fast to lure new work to the area, cut spending, and reduce taxes. Or Janesville can open a new aquatic center that will get used two months out of the year or continue to waste millions revitalizing a downtown so a couple of more consignment shops will open up. The downtown hasn’t been for decades or will it ever be the epicenter of the city again, which is unfortunate, but true. Better yet, Janesville could open another one acre park with a swing set or a basketball court nobody uses on it. The priorities in this town have been backwards for years. Janesville is simply this: clean, good schools, good workforce, and great location. That is not to discount those four factors, because some cities have none of those and nothing else to offer either. However, it needs to capitalize on those strong points and stop trying to be Madison. The key is to CUT SPENDING and keep the tax base as low as possible. If you look at the areas in the United States with the highest growth and lowest unemployment rates they all have one thing in common LOW TAXES, look it up.
May 6, 2008 at 9:40 a.m.
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justsayno-THANK YOU !!Yes I do understand ,I will be fine in all of this .But it's not about me !! It's young families like yours and others that I worry about.When you see/hear people that have little or no understaning for others it's real hard too take .I did take your advice and took a really deep breath. Have a good one and again I'm sorry !
May 6, 2008 at 9:25 a.m.
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diamondback , wow someone with the ability to say sorry. that is rare and i commend you for it. i didn't think your posts were that bad but you can see how easy it is to get worked up on here. we all have bad days, some more then others. when i said my husband was going to be let go after 17 years i got a lot of flack for it (poor me and so on) now it's everyone and they want me to feel bad for them when no on cared before. see how frustrating it can be.
May 6, 2008 at 9:11 a.m.
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optimism- Very well said !! I would first like to say that I'M SORRY for my posts yesterday.What this community is going thru is just heart breaking. The only ones that will have jobs are the bars,lawyers,and police ! This is so much bigger than just GM and the suppliers.As I said I'm sorry for my posts yesterday and please understand that I do care about my community and fellow humans !
May 6, 2008 at 9:03 a.m.
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diamondback, you should take your own advice "take a deep breath and let it out s l o w" your on here going on and on just as much as anyone and this is the second time you have dished out advice and not taken that same advice yourself.
May 6, 2008 at 9:02 a.m.
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I know people who make between $8 and $11 an hour, and guess what they own houses in Madison!!
May 6, 2008 at 8:53 a.m.
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Jackson doesn't live in Madison because he can't afford it. Hard to buy a house in Madison on $8/hr.
May 6, 2008 at 8:51 a.m.
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you said a mouthful, optimism!
May 6, 2008 at 8:47 a.m.
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Point is....WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER. Stop being angry at the GM workers. That is just plain goofy. We all have jobs that are in limbo, and the cost of living (and entertainment) is going up, so the crime rate is also going to go up. We as a community need to brace ourselves for this caois that is evolving, and work together to protect eachother.
May 6, 2008 at 8:37 a.m.
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Guess what!! The price of beer is going up too. Now that effects more than the average GM worker doesn't it??
May 6, 2008 at 5:31 a.m.
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Jackson- You say you work in Madison, you are a fan of the Mayor, and Janesville is just a bunch of lazy GM workers that give the city a bad name. Here's a thought...Why don't you move to Madison?
May 6, 2008 at 1:59 a.m.
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Yeah, if we had a mayor just like Madison's, instead of layoffs maybe companies would leave outright (rayovak). Maybe if we are real lucky, the new Madison Mayor clone will try to shove a light rail system down our throats too!
May 6, 2008 at 12:38 a.m.
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There will be no real job growth, or new employers till Janesville decides to have a mayor. For example every mayor Madison has had from Paul, to now Dave has been a person that would go to any lengths to bring prospects to town. Janesville needs to have one person with a sole goal to make Janesville rise above its dark past. This will only be possible if this person has to report to the people every two years.
May 5, 2008 at 9:05 p.m.
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<i>What we could see is some price pressure on the lower end of the market, those homes in the $100,000-$150,000 range,” Borman said. “That could provide some real values on the $150,000-$200,000 market, where things have been pretty inactive lately.”</i>
Wouldn't this "real value" for homes in the 150K to 200K price range mean they would come down to the 100K to 150K price range?
I've already had arguments with realtors about certain overpriced homes in the Janesville area. HINT HINT - you're on the market for two years - it's the price
May 5, 2008 at 8:39 p.m.
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optimism, I 2nd that emotion!
"How the Janesville area approaches its latest challenges will go a long way in determining the community’s success or failure, said Deller, the UW-Madison professor.
“The community needs to look at this as an opportunity, not a threat,” he said. “It needs to say, ‘We can overcome this,’ and then roll up its sleeves and get to work.”"
May 5, 2008 at 8:17 p.m.
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Well, I guess the professor's advice didn't work here. This comminity will NEVER be able to come together and work thru this will it??
May 5, 2008 at 2:47 p.m.
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AND Diamondback~ Since you brought it up....if you have no mortgage and no credit card debt and only a truck payment, good for you. I guess the GM Layoff won't hurt so bad for you then!! I could make a lot of assumptions on why you are so angry about the layoffs and losing money, you know, since you have no bills. But instead of yelling and screaming senseless stuff.....I am saying good job on controlling your debt, hopefully others did as well. If they didn't they will have to make some changes. But, just as the article states, it is the attitude that makes the difference!! Keep a POSITIVE outlook, and eventually good things will happen. Good luck to you.
May 5, 2008 at 2:46 p.m.
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Oh, I do get out, don't you worry about that. I support my community, I spend my money here. Oh, wait..I don't work at GM so it doesn't count!
May 5, 2008 at 2:40 p.m.
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Okay. I am completly lost with that angry comment?
YOU made a comparison to Woodmans, should've used walmart. Not my fault.
I think they have an anger management group in janesville somewhere.
May 5, 2008 at 2:38 p.m.
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happy2 -I can think of 15 mom/pop resturants in Janesville !!! We have 6-8 downtown alone ,get out more often !!!
May 5, 2008 at 2:34 p.m.
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momof1-I'm sure ALL of our grocery stores are OWNED by mom/pops !!!! Oh let me say all but one !! LOGLIs is a CHAIN... THINK BEFORE YOU SPEAK !!!!
May 5, 2008 at 2:31 p.m.
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Diamondback~ Don't know why you are so angry. I never said anything about how you live your life, so yell at someone else for that!!
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YOU made an analagy about mom and pop stores losing out and used ANOTHER locally owned business as getting all the dough!!! OOPS.
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Take a deep breath. It really is not worth all that stress.
May 5, 2008 at 2:28 p.m.
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momof1---I don't have a mortgage !! My truck payment is tru Blackhawk "COMMUNITY" Credit Union !! I do have a credit card with BHCC but that has a zero balance just like all of the other credit cards that I have !! I don't have ANY TOYS ....no boat,no snowmobile,no motorcycle, no atv do you get my drift ??? I choose to live my life on my terms ....not how other people think I should.
May 5, 2008 at 2:27 p.m.
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Diamondback - And, why do you think that only GM people spend money? There are plenty of other businesses in and around Janesville that employ people??? Or am I mistaken when I come to work everyday? The "mom and pop" shops ,as you would call them, need to worry more about customer service and retaining customers, because there are people out there that will not fall apart because of GM.
May 5, 2008 at 2:24 p.m.
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Yes, Woodmans is employee owned and most of them live here locally
May 5, 2008 at 2:23 p.m.
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But there really isn't as many mom & pop restaurants anymore. Why? I suppose you will say because of the GM layoffs in the 80's and 90's? or is it because that maybe the people who make $1000 a week are not spending it locally at those little places.
May 5, 2008 at 2:17 p.m.
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That is all great and good Diamondback, but Woodmans could be considered mom and pop also. Think about what you are saying.
May 5, 2008 at 2:10 p.m.
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happy2---No I don't think they spend all their money at mom/pops...but people in general are less to spent on wants over needs !! Lets put it this way ...on friday I want fish for dinner I could go to my favorite resturant and spend $40.00 for 3 people OR I can go to woodmans and buy fish,potatoes,cole slaw for under $15.00. Mom/pop just LOST $40.00 on my not eating out.Now lets say 10 people do the same !!!($400.00 lost) Do you get what I'm saying ???
May 5, 2008 at 2 p.m.
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This is true Happy2. I bet their mortgages and car payments and credit card companines aren't in janesville. We will SURVIVE!!!!
May 5, 2008 at 1:38 p.m.
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diamondback...do you really think they spend all their money at the mom & pop stores?
Hey, I'm glad you can do math!
May 5, 2008 at 1:24 p.m.
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justsaynotomath---Take a deep breath, and let it out S .... l .... o .... w... :)
May 5, 2008 at 1:21 p.m.
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happy2-You are right Janesville does have other employers....Lets look at the BIG PICTURE ,on the low side 1000 workers out of work..They make $1000.00/week..1000(workers)x$1000.00= drum roll please !!! $1,000,000.00 (1 million $ )NOT being spent in this area. So if you really think the mom & pop store/resturants aren't worried think again !they don't have other stores/shops to help them on the down turns like the big box stores do !!! Yes this really is more than just GM.
May 5, 2008 at 1:14 p.m.
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oh i don't go to GM, so i have no need for their parking lot.
May 5, 2008 at 1:13 p.m.
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RUserious, did GM let all it's senior employees go in the 80's too ?
May 5, 2008 at 12:43 p.m.
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GM workers are not the only people who are facing layoffs in WI, but those folks are not getting free education and all the extra help. GM workers are not the only ones who spend their money in Janesville..Hello....
Janesville does not revolve around GM!
I don't think people are jealous of GM workers, I think they are sick of their whinning about how hard they have it.
Janesville will be fine with or without GM.
May 5, 2008 at 12:26 p.m.
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You guys need to look at the upside of layoffs. It lowers variable costs for the employer, increasing profit (assuming the economy isnt in the tank, which it is not). It places more people in the available worker pool, giving hiring companies a better pick of available canididates. It also increases productivity and efficiency, as people who don't get laid off tend to work a little harder and better to keep their job. Producing higher quality products/services tends to increase sales, which leads to expansion, which leads to hiring. This isn't much consolation for those laid off, in the short term anyway, I realize, but short term vision never gets anybody anywhere.
May 5, 2008 at 12:25 p.m.
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Do all the comments regarding how hard GM workers work and is it even worth $27/hour given the nature of the work mean that the posters don't think other factory workers in the area making significantly less work as hard? I bet the guys at places like Alcoa pouring melted aluminum for $14/hour would love to make $27!
May 5, 2008 at 12:14 p.m.
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“justsayno” says: “GM is going out of business. i rest my case !” ?? I didn’t know that it was your pronouncement to make. Wow-I’m impressed! Glad you weren’t around to make the same pronouncement in the early 80’s when GM Janesville went down to one shift for a year or more, then again in the mid 80’s -and other times of ebb (always followed by flow). Research and ye shall find. It’s the same all over and across the board when the time is right (or wrong). You and Jackson will have to continue tooling around in the foreign car parking lot at GM until you hear otherwise, I guess.
As far as cars breaking down, needing maintenance and upkeep, being recalled-well, remember what I said about research. I think it’s pretty universal. We’re dealing with man-made machines, not omnipotent heavenly bodies.
But “sorry” is right for sure-and I apologize for my particular additions to this needless rant. “Sorry” is right again when he/she says GM isn’t going anywhere. This is pointless.
May 5, 2008 at 11:48 a.m.
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WOW I read all the comments and thought I was back in high school with all the whinning. First if you want to shut Jackson up quit answering his comments. Second I don't think GM is going anywhere. I think they are positioning themselves to bring in some cheaper labor to help make them more competitive in the future.The reason I believe this is because (and correct me if I'm wrong) they own the land that the plant is built on and if they left they would have to pay taxes and building upkeep and everything else that goes along with property ownership. Almost all there other plants are on land they lease, atleast in Texas and Mexico.
May 5, 2008 at 11:41 a.m.
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Watch the movie Rodger, and me. It is a pro GM worker movie. But it shows law makers pandering, and newspapers playing down the storm ahead. If you read the news at anyone of the GM plants each one claims to be the best GM plant. It is like telling your with that she is a good cook. GM Corp has people on staff that are called responder who know the mental state of each group of people, and how to get them to respond the way they want.
May 5, 2008 at 10:59 a.m.
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yes, i said GM cars and trucks break down all the time and they do. i also commented on 1 truck that broke down and was never fixed. so there is a difference between breaking down and getting fixed and breaking down and never getting fixed. i am not paranoid, unless the truth is being paranoid.
May 5, 2008 at 10:55 a.m.
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GM is going out of business. i rest my case !
May 5, 2008 at 10:30 a.m.
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justsayno: "as for breaking down i said one truck not all trucks".
No you did not say "one truck", you said "cars and trucks" "break down all the time".
They wouldn't have to compete? I thought that's what all "competetive" businesses and manufacturers did. It's the name of the game.
And the part about you being cut off in your foreign car all the time by "big GM trucks with the union stickers"-that'd be pretty scary for sure. I'd start to feel paranoid-until I woke up.
May 5, 2008 at 9:54 a.m.
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how would i know if they are GM workers ? Maybe it's the big GM trucks with the union stickers all over them that gave it away. as for breaking down i said one truck not all trucks and even so one truck should matter to GM in a GM town.
May 5, 2008 at 9:50 a.m.
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justsayno-I’m with you-I’d be mad if I got cut off only when I drive my foreign car-that’s ridiculous. And you know, of course, that GM workers are the ones cutting you off? By the way, GM does have a parking lot for foreign cars, but it is separate. That’s stupid, too, like when my neighbor’s son worked at Pizza Hut and he ordered from Dominoes on his lunch break-Pizza Hut made Dominoes deliver their pizzas to the back door-how childish-don’t you think?
By the way-how is it that GM has lasted for...how many years? if vehicles apparently typically break down after 1100 miles? Do you imply this is commonplace, and only with GM? My then must be a fluke with 140,000 miles (so far).
Jackson-are you more sure of your “guess” than this guy? “Greg Gardner (a spokesman for Oliver Wyman — which publishes the Harbour Report on auto manufacturing) said based on plant performance, the cuts aren’t a reflection on the Janesville work force. He is cautiously optimistic.” And transfers happen all the time, when needed. But with laying off “750 workers each at Flint and Janesville, 1,150 workers in Pontiac, and 900 workers in Oshawa.” in large part because of the American Axle strike, they’re not exactly scrambling for workers there either....hmmm as a matter of fact, the second two are laying off more than Janesville.
But actually, I’d consider myself in the same category as you if I even had a discussion with you-and I sure don’t. So forget what I said.
May 5, 2008 at 9:35 a.m.
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GM would not need to compete IF they made cars and trucks that didn't break down all the time and got better gas millage. my friend had a GM truck that broke down with only 1100 miles on it. the dealer said to bad not covered in the warranty. how is 1100 miles acceptable ? it's not ? so they bought a dodge after only buying GM for 3 generations. GM's poor PR is the problem and 0% financing didn't help either i'm sure. so GM lets it self go deep into the red so they can let go all their experienced employees and hire cheap unexperienced kids. why are you all not pissed about this ? why is GM held with such high regard ? what have they done for you besides take your job away ?
May 5, 2008 at 9:20 a.m.
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"Any GM workers rent Mike Moore's movie Rodger, and me. I wonder how you view the out look now. I hear they will not grant tranfers to Janesville GM workers, even with other plants having openings. Guess GM does not want to breed new problems at other plants like Janesville GM has been know for."
WELL, JACKSON, YOU HEARD WRONG! The reason that displaced workers are not being offered transfers at this time is because there are no plants with openings right now. Don't know where you got your information from, but it seems as though you like to make stuff up to color your own world pretty.
May 5, 2008 at 9:20 a.m.
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Jackson,
Since you are obviously uneducated, let me explain this in layman's terms. GM will not be offering transfers because financially it is not a good move in today’s auto industry. It is far cheaper to give them a buyout of some sort and hire all new employees (which I don’t see in Janesville happening unless a new product line comes in) under the new agreement which includes $14/hr and no post retirement health benefits (those cost money). Because GM is competing in a global economy (that means competing with other countries), it can no longer stay competitive with foreign car companies that do not pay their employees a high wage, pension, or healthcare benefits after retirement. I guarantee you that the new workers they hire in at $14/hr won’t be better employees than the current ones (this is not a slam on the current employees). They will just cost less in overhead.
Now that was probably a lot of reading for you so here is the quit and dirty explanation…
Existing Employees Cost More, New Employees Cost Less. Not better employees, just cheaper employees. That means GM makes more money and GM can compete with Toyota, Nissan, etc.
May 5, 2008 at 9:09 a.m.
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coffeeman,
You misunderstood my post. I was referring to justsaynotomath's comment that she/he gets funny looks for driving her foreign car in Janesville. I have a couple friends in Janesville that drive foreign cars and they get looks as well. The uneducated crack was aimed at the individuals that give the looks. The post was also meant to point out how uneducated as a whole the city of Janesville is compared to a metropolitan area with not only a GM plant, but several white collar jobs (Detroit excluded since it is a sh*thole). I have been to Arlington and know it is not uncommon to see many BMWs, Audi's, Mercedes, Lexus, Toyotas, etc. and the individuals who drive those vehicles don’t get funny looks about driving a non-American vehicle.
May 5, 2008 at 9:05 a.m.
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yes, i get dirty looks and cut off all the time because i drive a foreign car. i know because when i drive a car made in the usa i don't see any dirty looks or get cut off. all you have to do is read the comments on here about driving a foreign car to see what i am talking about. when you can not even park your foreign car at GM you can see how big the problem is. well now it's your turn to deal with people not liking you because of where you work. see how stupid it is to put people down because of what they drive or where they work.
May 5, 2008 at 9:01 a.m.
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Any GM workers rent Mike Moore's movie Rodger, and me. I wonder how you view the out look now. I hear they will not grant tranfers to Janesville GM workers, even with other plants having openings. Guess GM does not want to breed new problems at other plants like Janesville GM has been know for.
May 5, 2008 at 8:54 a.m.
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It looks like we hit the nail on the head with Jackson. He hasn't argued the fact that he is probably working on an assembly line for less money than those at GM and it pisses him off. Jackson, quit your whining. You aren't bettering the community either with your lack of education.
May 5, 2008 at 8:43 a.m.
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Jackson:: there were times in the past when using the term lazy to describe an U.S. autoworker may have fit a select few. However, in the past ten years this industry has taken numerous cuts, what used to be three peoples job is now done by one person. Having worked for Chrysler as a part timer and having a family member who worked for GM, I can say first hand that things have changed drastically in this industry. At Chrysler, you might have a second to wipe the sweat off of your brow before starting on the next car. On top of walking uncountable miles a day while following a vehicle down the line, you might have 9 screws and three push pins to install in 40 seconds 560 times a day. There were times when I wondered (even though I didn’t make a full wage) if it would even be worth working there at 27 dollars an hour. The excellent medical benefits that come with these jobs are almost a necessity. When my mother retired from GM, she could barely stand on her one foot and only had about half use of her shoulder. The 80/20 coverage offered by most salaried jobs would put many of these people in the poor house. It’s unfortunate that some of the excess of the 80’s mentality is still carried over in the minds of outsiders to this industry. The culture, work requirements, and quality have all changed dramatically in the last decade to compete with imports. I guess my point is that these people earn their wage. Granted the work is hard, but for some people working hard and making a decent middle class wage is all they ask.
May 5, 2008 at 6:25 a.m.
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I remember Jackson from a few years ago. He got in as a summer help temp. He was placed in the chassis dept putting on lower control arms. He didn't last a week and quit.
May 5, 2008 at 5:44 a.m.
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cmg75 -- I couldn't have said it better myself. Zip it, Jackson!
May 4, 2008 at 11:57 p.m.
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Jackson-Does it make you feel better to rag on GM workers? Your opinion is not a valuable as you may think it is. The reason why you get a response is because your blatant ignorance makes you an easy target. It must be a sad little life you live, if you get such a thrill of other people misfortunes. Also, it's amusing how in every blog, you express your excitement over the idea of garage sales. Have fun Jackson, scavenging the streets of Janesville like a rat, finding your second hand treasures. Thanks for being the epitome of white trash. Have a 'brite' and 'shiney' day Jackson.
May 4, 2008 at 11:48 p.m.
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Giving any tax payers dollars to GM workers is like giving a over weight person a dozen donuts.
May 4, 2008 at 11:28 p.m.
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I hope this makes you feel better to vent on me for the poor path GM workers have followed. Growing up in this area GM worker have shown me what not to do. I just can understand why my taxes are having to pay for these lazy people over, and over. At least this is the last time, and they will be gone.
May 4, 2008 at 11:17 p.m.
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jtlis: I would agree with you in the sense that these people will have new opportunities. However, it will depend on what schooling people decide to take, whether or not businesses will come to Janesville because of our more educated workforce. Let’s not forget that many people enjoy working hard (with their hands) and making a good living. Not everyone is looking to be on the management side of the equation. In contrast, most former union brothers will be even less apt to go to the other side, because many of us feel that it is management who has ruined GM, not UAW workers alone. Moreover, having UAW stamped on an application as ones only primary employment for the last ten years or more is not a welcoming notice to a management oriented company. In the skill trades sense, there may be some opportunities, but we can only have so many air condition and heater repair men and women in one town. As a result, it will be important for town leaders and businesses to work with local tech schools to find the right opportunities for everyone.
May 4, 2008 at 11:02 p.m.
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You see people giving funny looks to people driving foreign cars? Are the drivers dressed in clown suits? Why do you spend so much time watching people watching cars go by?
And BostonBill-it was nice to read a very civilized comment for a change. Some of these attitudes start to get very depressing. Thanks for the refreshing change.
May 4, 2008 at 10:58 p.m.
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Cocktail848: You should not assume that all people who drive foreign vehicles get funny looks. I have a MBA in Business Management. I consider myself to be quite educated. Sorry.
May 4, 2008 at 10:48 p.m.
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I find it funny that people who drive foreign cars in Janesville get funny looks. I am darn sure that doesn't happen in Arlington, TX. Oh wait, that is a suburb of a metropolitan area where individuals are educated. Never mind, I guess I can't make the correlation then.
May 4, 2008 at 10:05 p.m.
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I know that GM workers make good money and for those of you have who have ever worked at an assembly plant, I think you may agree with me that they earn it. (yes, there are some slackers, just like every company) It's not a "fun" job. I have been laid off before and it is not a pleasant experience. I don't know anyone at the Janesville GM plant, nor do I have any affiliation with GM, but I know the pain of PEOPLE whom have lost their jobs. Can we just show some caring thoughts? We are all in this economic downturn together.
May 4, 2008 at 8:56 p.m.
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i bought a foreign car 3 years ago and it was the best buy i ever made. i get looks all the time in Janesville for the car i drive. what they don't know is i didn't buy it new. i bought it with 17,000 miles on it and from a marine who could no longer afford the payments after his 3rd tour in Iraq. so the next time you see a foreign car it may not be as foreign as you think.
May 4, 2008 at 8:30 p.m.
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JRoknhrse: I bought a foreign vehicle in 2005 and it was made here in America. The money used to pay these people to make this vehicle stayed here and was spent here! The money being paid those workers making cars in Mexico and Canada is NOT being spent here. Do you think the worker in Ohio that made my foreign vehicle escaped to Korea to spend his money?? Further more, I compared my Hyundai Santa Fe with the Equinox and the Santa Fe had a larger interior, better gas mileage, a 100,000 mile warrant (Equinox 60,000) and it cost $7200 less than the Equinox. I don't feel bad buying a so called foreign vehicle at all. The workers in Ohio thank me so they can keep their jobs too.
May 4, 2008 at 8:09 p.m.
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Jackson doesnt work for no stinking "green company" making $24 an hour. Look at his spelling. He is probaly a high school dropout sitting in his parents basement eating cheetos. He's jealous of all you GM workers because youve done well for yourselves and he cant even get a job at McDonalds.
May 4, 2008 at 8:06 p.m.
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tweetpea, you and all American people should be worrying about what kind of vehicles you drive. Every time you buy a new foreign vehicle, where do you think that money is being spent? Do you think they are coming to America to spend it here? No, that money is being spent in their country! Also if companies continue to move factories out of the country there will be no money or jobs here and the American dream will be no more! They will be patroling the Mexican border to keep us out. We will be trying to sneak across to find jobs! You think that these times right now are not a sign of what the future holds for us all? Think again!
May 4, 2008 at 7:59 p.m.
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Most companies look at the education of the area they are looking relocate to. Janesville has a chance at getting new business because of the quality people in the area.
May 4, 2008 at 7:53 p.m.
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Maybe this will create new opportunities for everyone laid off. Remember that everyone will recieve some type of skill training or a chance to recieve a degree.
May 4, 2008 at 7:23 p.m.
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You asked where jackson worked ?? He has said that he works in Madison for a GREEN COMPANY making $24.00 /hr.... Ok like i'll buy that !
May 4, 2008 at 7:18 p.m.
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GM Workers don't care about us people that are driving foreign cars they only care for themselves We all knew that GM would be laying people off thats no secret. But if GM leaves everyone is going to get stuck paying higher taxes what about higher rent?
May 4, 2008 at 6:32 p.m.
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I remember back in 82 and 83 during the last big layoff in order to receive unemployment benefits you had to apply for two jobs a week and have that employer sign a voucher proving that you applied for said job. I also remember a few businesses around the area that refused to sign the voucher as they didn't want to be a part of giving you "free money". Several of those businesses did not see GM employees patronize those businesses once they returned to work. Some of those businesses are no longer in business. I think a republican was president at that time, he also didn't think budget deficits was a big deal. Deja Vu all over again.
May 4, 2008 at 6:16 p.m.
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Jackson, please share with us where you earn your paycheck from so that when the time comes for THAT employer to issue a bit of bad news, we can all make fun of YOU. The GM households in this town don't appreciate your poor attempt at sarcasm.
May 4, 2008 at 5:18 p.m.
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~diamondback
It's not the popcorn that concerns me! I am very much praying that a good guy like Ray didn't decide to end his life due to the recent changes implemented by GM! There are way too many people from that plant who have no other outlet outside of that plant. I understand there's lifestyle changes that will need to take place with these changes, however, these changes shouldn't involve taking ones life, or becoming so stressed out that people start acting irrationally. Change is a part of life. GM isn't God. If more people put that commitment that they feel so strongly about with GM, into their lives outside of their work, they could move mountains! It's time to make a decision.... BITTER OR BETTER???? There is an absolute right and an absolute wrong. I pray that people make the right choice. It will monumental for their future!
May 4, 2008 at 2:58 p.m.
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It seems the Gazette is bound and determined to make this sound as though it’s no big deal. However, GM will not keep this plant running long term with one shift. As a result, unless gas prices get back to 2 bucks a gallon, bet on this plant closing altogether in the next few years unless a new product is brought to the plant. Granted, I think Janesville can survive all the resulting layoffs from GM and suppliers. However, we must also take into account that several other major manufacturers in the area have reduced staff in the area or have went belly up in recent months, not the least of which is Stoughton trailers and Simmens; several others I can’t call to mind right now. The results of these layoffs will not be felt until the unemployment runs out and the people are done spending their credit cards limits before foreclosing on their homes and going bankrupt. It may take a few years. The problem for Janesville is high taxes and bad spending. Rather than thinking about an Aquatics center, maybe they should consider working to get new jobs here. Exactly where does one go to work in Janesville besides medical related employment and still make a good living? If it were not for Mercy and Dean, there would be major problems for this area. In addition, even if someone wanted to work in that industry they are back logged at Blackhawk Tech for years. Nickel and dime employers are not going to absorb several thousand new people looking for work. I’d like to think the glass is half full also if I was trying to sell newspapers. I think I’ll hit the library and read them for free as part of my budget reduction plan. Hopefully I'm wrong and we'll all go on happily ever after. I'll certainly do my part, I just hope Janesville does it's part.
May 4, 2008 at 2:56 p.m.
May 4, 2008 at 1:57 p.m.
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kleej---I agree 100% :( Sounds like you will never look at a bag of popcorn in the same way ever again.. I know I won't !! Just ONE MORE BIG LOST !!! All the outsiders think we have it so good. R.I.P. POPCORN MAN R.I.P !
May 4, 2008 at 1:57 p.m.
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Optimists see the glass as half full...
Pessimests see the glass as half empty...
Jackson likes to see the glass shattered so no one can get a drink...
Can you spell J E A L O U S
May 4, 2008 at 12:36 p.m.
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I am willing to put money down that Jackson is one of those guys who works at one of the other blue collar companies in Janesville making $8/hr working on a line and bitching that people at the plant make more and do less than he does. He sounds bitter that he never got out of Janesville either. All I can say is the BRIC countries will eventually get your job too.
May 4, 2008 at 11:44 a.m.
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Or....Long term struggles for the people who get left behind. There is life outside of GM!
Rest in peace Ray.
http://www.gazettextra.com/obits/2008/ap...
May 4, 2008 at 11:40 a.m.
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The glass actually is "half full" to the optimist. The pessimist believes the glass is "half empty"... the over analyzers believe the glass is twice as big as it needs to be!!! Think about that! Just a note to people during these transitional times.... If you see the glass half empty all the time, your destiny will reflect that. If you see it half full, even when things seem hopeless, you will come out on top....try it! Make it happen. It's in all of us. We just have to proactive.
May 4, 2008 at 11:29 a.m.
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jackson, i think you have been in the sun to long,this will not be the best time to live in janesville, alot of people are losing their jobs. from your comment, it sounds like you find this amusing,as for your neighbors boat. i hope it rots before you get it. have a nice day.
May 4, 2008 at 11:13 a.m.
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Jackson:
Instead of spending your time fishing, I think it would be better spent going back to school and getting your GED. Grammar and spelling apparently aren't your forte. If you are going to continue to bash people that work for GM, at least do it with style.
May 4, 2008 at 10:54 a.m.
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Become one with the glass and you will have already reached it.
May 4, 2008 at 10:38 a.m.
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This is the best time to live in Janesville now that GM is closing. There will be no stuggle for the working folks. This will be brite, and shiney days. Now thing will become more affordable, and rummage sales will be on every block. I am looking into getting a boat, and I see my neighbor that works at GM just purchased one last fall. I wonder when that will have a discounted price.Sure hope he takes care of it for me.
May 4, 2008 at 10:36 a.m.
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It would be nice if these quoted experts all agreed on the definition of the economic term "recession", and whether they mean the term to apply to the local, state, national or global economies when they use it. It's not so easy to keep "one's chin up" when all these Chicken Little types keep chanting "recession", particularly when it seems, at least nationally, that none exists.
May 4, 2008 at 10:33 a.m.
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Yes, the glass is always full. But it's up on the top shelf where I can't reach it.
May 4, 2008 at 9:50 a.m.
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I am just tired of a meaningless analogy. The glass is always full.
May 4, 2008 at 8:08 a.m.
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You are a half empty kind of guy, right Gary?
May 3, 2008 at 10:49 p.m.
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Was the glass full before or are you in the process of filling it?
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