Can I sell my tax payer funded GM stock so I can invest it in American made FORD stock?

People need to remember back in the early 1990's when our local Janesville plant started up with the Suburban/Tahoe. We had lost the Cavalier and gained a "huge profit maker". Now I am not saying that GM was smart to think that way but they did and anyone in management there will agree, looking forward down the road to a possibility of foreign auto makers starting up SUV production was not in their minds at all. All they knew was that this Janesville vehicle made an average net profit of over $11,000. per vehicle. Now times that by over 1100 per day times 5 days a week because we were on Friday overtime every week, and you will see why their minds were clouded somewhat with that profit idea and not anything else. Well along comes the foreign SUV and now fuel prices and WHAMMO, you have to lay off a second shift because sales stink. Yes GM gives a great parachute for lay off and yes it was a great place to work, but personally I wish they had had the forethought to produce alternative fuel cars long ago.

Danias, they (Fudruckers and Red Robbin)are probably leaving town because people are sick of paying $9 for a burger at these type places. You might as well go buy a nice ribeye and grill out if you want a $9 slab of beef.

Oh by the way not concerning the Gm story but I heard from a source that Red Robin, Fudruckers, Noodles and couple other Food places and two builders Kaisers & Arnolds construction are leaving janesville has any one else heard or could tell me why?Hmm

Zoom- You are so right !!! Just like the rice ! We had dinner at a local Chinese resturant last week and was charged $1.50 for extra rice.All I'm saying is we are all in this together... Some just see it clearer and are willing to accept what is coming this way.May not like what I see ..but I'll be prepared and still give back. What about you ??

You are repeating yourself.

RUSerious- May I said that you just amaze me !!(it's a good thing) Most people on here don't/won't get the big picture on what is going to happen ... In last nights paper we had 3 pages of foreclosures/repos.Now I don't know what/where these people work or why they are losing their homes/cars but it would stand to reason that they are NOT GM,Lear and LSI employees ,you ask what is my point or why I say that ?? This lay off has not been going on long enough for banks/lenders to be calling in the loans for defaults. This is only going to have a ripple effect on this community and local business,and for all that don't see that I just don't know what to say to them.I often wonder what will happen to the familes when no one will be able to make a living and not just exist.

Shine-you do not need to “stand up for yourself”, explain, or, especially, apologize just because you are a GM family! This is starting to sound absolutely ridiculous! It IS ridiculous! Think about it. What about other workplaces, and categories of workers who have a similar, or better, “parachute” when they get laid off or are in danger of losing their jobs? GM workers get more than most? So-they work for their wages and bargained for their benefits! That’s bad? Only those who are left fending for themselves (except UC) by their employer qualify as “good people”? It’s sad, it’s not fair, but that doesn’t mean those who are offered more because of their particular employer should not get what is freely offered. They are a wealthy company, make huge profits and sell a product that cost generally second to only a home mortgage. Do you expect then to pay what producers of your pantyhose or your garden hose pay? Do you want people to REFUSE what they are offered? Why? You are talking about GM WORKERS, not the owners of the company. They did not ask for, plan, or instigate this scenario or the events that lead up to it. Nor did they cause it! If you expected them to stay where they were in, for example, 1960, 1970, or 1990-then I would hope you did the same.
And as wcm4life asks “I do not think all people are the same. So your saying just because you work at GM you are arrogant?” A little light passes over you when you first walk in the doors (only AFTER you’ve been hired) that makes you arrogant? I’d love someone to answer that, and-one more question, are they more arrogant than momof1, Jackson, and...ta daaa....our one and only ”JanesvilleHero!” ?
And on topic----> why in the world would you care if a fellow citizen gets this “parachute” at no expense to you? Why?

If I am wrong, why did you just prove my point?

GM workers arrogant...maybe. Momof1 arrogant...ABSOLUTELY!!! Get off your horse woman!!

wcm~ what you fail to realize about me is that I could care less what anyone thinks of me. And just to answer your question, I have never been on welfare. I do receive child support, but it is much less than the wisconsin mandated 17%, and that is by my choice. I am not orginally from wisconsin, I moved here because I wanted to. Some people need to take their blinders off and see that there is life beyond GM and Janesville.
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Diamondback~ Thanks for the head's up about Edgerton. I actually am a very nice person and would give the shirt off my back to someone in need, however I am opinionated. Go figure!

I do not think all people are the same. So your saying just because you work at GM you are arrogant? Tell me what makes you the one to decide about 2500 people and say they are all the same. Please grow up and open your eyes. I do not work at GM it would not matter if I did. My Dad did he gave to everyone he could helped were he could help. Arrogant is not him. I am not a GM brat I have worked all my life to get what I want and need. I could not go to college until I save enough because my Dad made too much and we could not get loans because my mom was very sick and alot of her treatments were not covered by insurance. I beleive everyone who thinks it is all GM EMPLOYEES need to really look at the whole picture and not just what you want to see. Now momof1 you say you are not married and if I remember right you have a son. Does that mean you lived on welfare until they kicked you off or you live off your child support if you picked the right man? Not fair when people do not know you and pass jugement is it?? Think Think Think.

momof1-It's too bad that you are so angry !! You should take a step back and enjoy life. A little advice ... If you are going to live in a small town you need to be nicer .Edgerton is very friendly and theres not much uglyness there !!!

"Why is it all you want GM to leave? Don't say because the workers are arrogant, because all you people laughing about layoffs are 10 times worst then any of them. Get a life and quit crying that you weren't smart enough to pass the test to get in there."

We are worst than any of them? GM workers are arrogant. Just ask one of them. It personally doesn't matter to me if GM leaves or stays.
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I agree completey with exFIB!!!

Gary you are wrong on the land especailly for Mexico and Texas. Texas very rarely allows a non based Texas company to own land and last I knew not even the federal government owns any land in Texas that wasn't donated to them. All the military bases are leased. As for Mexico unless GM is owned by a Mexican thye have no choice but to lease. Why is it all you want GM to leave? Don't say because the workers are arrogant, because all you people laughing about layoffs are 10 times worst then any of them. Get a life and quit crying that you weren't smart enough to pass the test to get in there.

Why is that a GM worker can receive supplemental pay to the unemployment pay and still draw the maximum unemployment benefit check. If I'm not mistaken, the average Joe that loses his/her job has their unemployment benefits decreased for every dollar they make when drawing unemployment. Why would the state laws be different for a GM worker?

I just feel the need to stand up for myself. My husband has been at the plant since 2000. Where were we before that? Well we were both working at factories with not so great wages. When we got the call out of the blue that he was being offered a job, we were grateful! We know what it is like to live in hard times, so I do believe we were, are and will still be living in the real world when this is all over. We feel "entitled" to nothing. I work part-time now and am glad I can, but have NO problem getting a full-time job again if I need to. We were able to buy a home, own a car and provide better for our children. Our home could maybe sell for $110000, we have no "toys" and our four children get their clothes from Target, Old Navy, Kohls. If my husband no longer has a job then so be it. We are so grateful for what we have and know God will provide for us. He may not find us another job with the same pay, but we don't NEED that. We've lived before with low income and are not afraid to again. My husband works hard for his money with long hours and physical jobs that are hard on his back. I know what it's like to work hard for less pay, so we are just thankful that he gets what he does. It's just hard to hear so much negatives about the GM workers and say nothing.

jealousy,is not it for me. I just can't see how anyone can get pay 30bucks an hour to do a mindless job.

GM is not going to have any trouble finding land. Land is leased because that is the way that GM wanted it.

It may not be the deciding factor, but it will play a big role in the decision.

The idea that GM won't shut down the Janesville plant just because the land is owned is wishful thinking. Land ownership would not be the only criteria for deciding which factory to close.

Go out and rent 'Roger and Me'. It has scary similarities of what's happening now. I do agree that GM will have to stay in Janesville, mostly because the fact of they DO own the building and the land so they are responsible for all the years of contamination in and around the area. But if they don't stay, I guess the historical society will have a bigger place and when you're done with the tour, you can still stop at Zachows to see what life was like in the hay days, lol

I don't think they'll leave because Janesville is one of the very few plant they have that they also own the land it's built on. Texas and Mexico is leased land.

GM is not going to go anyplace. They maybe down to one shift but they aren't pulling out. Even if they did Janesville would survive just fine.

What leads you to believe that GM won't be pulling stakes in Janesville peechy?

I been reading post for a while now and didn't want to say anything, but ex-fib is right. There is a large percent of GM workers who do have a sense of entitlement. They think because you drive a foriegn car that you are the reason they are being laid off. When everyone knows the real reason is gas prices and vehicle prices. The gas price wouldn't be where they are now if Democrats (who UAW supports and is proud to do so)would quit blocking the drilling in Alaska and off the coast. They are also the ones that block new refineries from being built as well as nuclear energy plants. As for people buying foriegn cars. People buy foriegn cars for a few reasons, price, fuel economy and here is a big one warranty. Why would I spend an extra 5 to 6 thousand for a vehicle that gets worse gas mileage and has a warranty that is 7 years and 64,000 miles less. Only a fool and a rich man, well I'm not rich but I'm also no fool. One last thing to remember several years ago the plant was making cavaliers( a small fuel effecient car) and THE LOCAL UNION pushed for the LARGE SUV'S. Maybe if they would of stuck with the smaller cars they might of kept the local plant in a better place. One last thing. GM is not going to go anyplace. They maybe down to one shift but they aren't pulling out. Even if they did Janesville would survive just fine.

exFIB,
The layoffs have more to do with the product that happens to be built in Janesville than anything else. GM has too much capacity for the slowing demand of ginormous SUV's. Lower wages might allow GM to stay afloat for awhile, but they won't lower the vehicle prices enough to make them attractve vs. more fuel efficient alternatives.

ex Fib-One more thing ...As far as Kenosha and AMC..... Kenosha has Chrysler and part plants .Do you think Janesville will also get a NEW auto plant here ??

ex FIB-You are so right on the pizza deal ! But lets make it clear that NOBODY wanted free anything ! There was a story later in the paper about that being a mix-up. So you wonder why I said the pizza deal is/was a good example ?? For all you people that think GM will not make/have a big difference on the local business this is a very good example !! This ONE pizza place LOST 200-225 pizzas a week.( $1800.-2000.) Thats just one ..add the rest that delivered to GM on a daily bases that adds up too a lot of lost money/business.My guess would be $10,000.-15,000. a week. How or who do you think is going to make this up for the business ???? This is so much BIGGER than GM !!!

To get back on topic here..... I don't think that the reason so many people dislike GM employees is jealousy, it's because it seem so many of them have a sense of entitlement. Many GM employees feel that they are deserving of more than the rest of the working class.

I understand that these were union contracts that were negotiated, but I don't think that GM employees would have voted for any less. I do understand that concessions were made in the last contract, but obviously not enough, hence the lay off.

The way Prime Time Pizza was (is) treated by GM employees is a prime example. We're not getting free pizza while striking? Lets try to ruin their business! Entitlement......

I also know first hand that there are some gravy jobs at GM. While not everybody has one, it is pretty ridiculous. I once worked at a trash company that serviced GM. GM used to haul some of their own refuse but their truck kept breaking down (another GM product, go figure...) so they decided to have my company do it permanently. The problem was now a non-union company was taking away a union job. Their solution you ask? It was to have a union GM worker ride with our driver whenever hew was servicing their containers. He made almost $30 an hour to ride shotgun in a garbage truck all day long. If he wasn't riding along, he would wait back at the red building for our guy to come back.

So go ahead, flame me for my post. I for one have no problem if GM shut their doors for good. I know my property values will plummet especially since I live three blocks from the plant. But as with Kenosha in the AMC days, Janesville WILL rebound and in the end there will prosperity without the GM "attitude" that is so prevalent now.

I'm not even going to answer momof5 guestions... I'm who I say Iam.I have not told any untruths on these posts or do I care what she may or may not think .My opinion is if she can watch/look at my posts she has a lot of extra time on her hands with having 5 kids (if you go by her usernsme).

the only troll I've seen posting would have to be jackson ! hands down. I wonder why he lives in Janesville if he has so much to say negitive about the local GM plant & employess

An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of baiting other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_tr...

diamond must be a union rep which explains his posting at all hours of the day & night

diamondback: a troll is someone who pretends to be something they are not via the internet; I was not referring that you were trollesque in stature or anything. I'm not a GM hater, just a troll hater. Seriously, how can you post if you work at GM? You post morning, noon and night...do you access gazetteextra.com via your blackberry while on the line? I feel a committee call coming on...... :p

Half of the posts here could be deleted for being WAY off topic.

Back on topic: I don't think the economic impact to Janesville will be catastrophic, due to the number of GM workers that will take the buyout or retirement. Of course, I feel for those non-GM wokers that will lose their jobs.

wcm4life - AMEN!!

momof1.. I do not post much because I am old school if you have nothing to say nice keep it to yourself. You feel the need to share, to bad the blogs have turned out as they have. Maybe your life has some bumps but your life does not keep you busy enough if you have to create the (debate) as you like to call it. You are right I do not need to read if I do not want to. I have read some good imformation on the blogs on things I did not know that the news does not always share. I thank the people who have shared imformation on the subjects at hand not just to complain about what you do not have or will not get. Life is full of choices we choose our own way. So please keep sharing infomation the news chooses not to. I really did not know about the TAA. At least I can check it out. As soon as I know where my job begins or ends on the shirt tail and noone knows where or how it will all shake out. All of the people involved in this three ring circus, I hope is you all find a good life with what is handed I know a lot of people it is affecting I do not care where or how you work the shame is whatever you did will not be there anymore. Please keep sharing what you know it will help someone. Good luck and God bless all.

Good Luck on pushing my buttons. Hope that works well for you!!!

It is just turning into fun pushing your buttons. Don't feel bad for us because we don't want your pity everything will be just fine according your comments. Have a nice day and night at your fulltime job!

RUserious~ You keep going around in circles. I can post my opinion. Even if my opinion is to say someone doesn't have the right to do something, that is my opinion. And others are allowed to have their opinions. I don't like your opinion, as I am sure you don't like mine, so agree to disagree, and seriously get over it.
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As far as GM is concerned, these folks will figure it out. Life may be very different from what they are used to, but neverless, they will still have life! I feel bad for LEAR/LSI that don't get the benefits that GM will.

R U Serious, I think it is time to get back on topic here. You made your point. While I don't care to get in your "little argument" it is way off topic, so please post privately. Thank you.

Thank-you ! Doesn't Edgerton have a newspaper why don't you read the paper and comment in your own town!!!

momof1-Thank you for your attempt at answering my questions. You haven’t though; my question remains-and to use some of your own condescending tone-let me make it easier for you. You may not have understood what I asked, nor are you obligated to satisfy my curiosity, of course. My question was simple-why do you read GM stories if you’re sick of them? You replied that you love debate. Good enough-so do I. But you have said: “I am sick of reading about GM.” And your own advice was, under different stories: “If you don’t like it” variously: “go somewhere else, shop somewhere else, change lines....”
You told me “Open your mind a little and debate the article.” You told me “It goes back to the novel idea that this is a PUBLIC forum. Not only to serve GM workers.” Well of course it is not only to serve GM workers, but to inform the INTERESTED public as well. BUT- I am entirely certain it was not intended to provide a space to complain about GM workers. I just wonder why you don’t reserve your debate for something you enjoy discussing. You don’t enjoy the GM subject. But you said you enjoy debate-to bring it on-ok. Now remember, before you comment about me having checked out some of your previous postings-research is an important part of debate-and debate is what you asked for.
You asked me: “Did I ever say someone else does not have the right to do the same? I am making my point and others have the right to make their point. ???” Well....you have said at different times in different posts under various subjects:
*“If you don't want people looking at your comments and responding, maybe you shouldn't post at all.”
*“my point is that you have no right to say who can and can't and who should and shouldn't buy a home.” (related to someone’s opinion)
*“You cannot Judge someone just because they are not married and are buying a house.” (related to someone’s opinion)
*“Leave the kids alone” (related to someone’s opinion)
But then you admit:
*“It never hurts to get some people riled up. I enjoyed it.”
You really do this to make people angry?
I guess this next momof1 statement is your answer to that: *“It was a fun project to see so many people get so angry.”
Respond or not, I don’t care-now that I know you are just having fun trying to make people angry.

cocktail-Yes I agree about the next go around .I will be 63 in 4 years when I have my 30 years.As I said I like my job and just can't see myself sitting/staying home.As far as the comment from momof5... I guess I don't understand what/why you are calling me a troll it doesn't matter one way or another what you think of me.(sounds like a GM hater)

Danias~ I never asked for anyone's pity? I choose to live my life the way I want. It is a nice feeling. I don't feel that GM will put the hurt on everyone, but if that is the reality you choose to believe, I guess that is your perrogative!!! :)

momof1 I assumed you didn't work by the times next to your name! Gee you sound like you want people to pity you because your a single parent. If you feel you want to bash on people go right a head more power to you. I'm glad I don't know you! I'm just letting everyone get a feel of what will be happening when all of lear gm lsi are out of work. Times are tough on everyone one.

momof1: your last post (about bumps and bruises) is probably the nicest that I have seen you post. And, (deep breath), I agree with it.
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I question your incessant need for a debate. But hey, it's all personal preference and it is your right to invoke that "right" to share your unsolicited and often criticism prone opinion.

diamondback,

I wouldn't take the buyout with 26 years either. I am sure a better one is coming after the current. Since you have so many years, the next buyout will probably will give you the full benefits you get from putting in 30 years. Now if you don't take that one, well....

Wingnut~ It doesn't matter how much you wish people would stop hating on GM. That will never happen. Goes along with the line you used of personal preference.
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I am sure the GM/Lear/LSI folks work very hard for their money. But times are changing and people will have to roll with the punches and adapt. It does suck that this happens to families, I for one don't doubt that for a second as I have close friends this is affecting. But in the end, changes will have to be made, and everyone will come out okay, maybe with some bumps and bruises, but in the end, they will be alright.

RUSerious: Thanks for the questions, here are my answers!
1: Because I said I have the right to post my opinion and state my case. Did I ever say someone else does not have the right to do the same? I am making my point and others have the right to make their point. ??? Hope that helped figure that out for you.
2: Because I enjoy a debate. Open your mind a little and debate the article. I would like a quote that I am sick of reading about GM. I stated that people on here shove GM down your throat, but need to look at the "employees" that don't even purchase GM vehicles. Why would someone be angry with bloggers so bad, but don't want to look in their own backyard.
Again, it is a free country and this is a free blog where everyone is allowed to post their opinions. But be prepared for others to post back to you. I do not fear someone challenging me. Bring it on.

momof1- no preaching here, i just get sick and tired of people denigrating the workers at GM out of pure jealousy and running down the families involved. It doesnt upset me when a GM worker gets a Dodge or even a Ford, what would upset me would be seeing a Toyota or a Honda in the parking lot....but its all personal preference. OR quite possibly "its all about me"... lol
thank you diamondback and RUserious for your kind words.... I have seen my dad come home from long hours at the plant beat up and tired from the pounding he has put his body through, and no amount of thank yous ever seem to be enough to express my gratitude that I have towards him and how he created a decent, hard working and honest family. He has a tireless work ethic and I am sure you have put your body through hell as well diamondback, being there for 26 years....I kept telling my dad this past week while we were building a couple of sheds at my house that I know that I could never do what he does on a daily basis, it would be too tough and demanding. At least I am man enough to admit that fact, why cant the rest of the Anti-GM contingent do the same???

No momof1-I sure understand that-but here’s what I don’t understand (and sincerely wish enlightenment about):
1. Why, since you say anyone can post his opinion, did you tell the person who questioned YOUR opinion in an unrelated thread that people shouldn’t judge something they weren’t involved in....(you said “my point is that you have no right to say...”).
AND
2. Why you keep reading something you claim to hate reading about, then complain because you have to keep reading about it-actually, you said it was being shoved down your throat.
You actually question my confusion about these things? It’s like me complaining that I’m spending more time than I can afford on these habit-forming story forums, then keep on doing it. I’m gone now-but really look forward to your response later.

Because what you don't seem to understand, is that I am allowed to have an opinion on whatever is posted here. Whether it is an opinion others like or dislike, I am allowed to state my case. That is the end all of the entire point. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I feel more personally on certain subjects than others, but have the right to express those opinions!!! It is a really simple concept!! :)

diamond--do you currently work at GM? The reason I ask is you post during BOTH day and night shift hours on a consistent and regular basis. Either you are a "troll" or you have borrowed evansvillehousewife's BlackBerry :)

momof1-you are complaining to and about the GM workers UNDER a story about them. You said, as you know “Preach GM GM GM GM GM GM. Everyone shoves it down your throat.” But then you go on to read, and post, in threads about their personal news. Why? And maybe people complaining about GM stories in posts under GM stories gets equally tiresome (and completely illogical!)to GM workers and their families.
You, yourself, under another, unrelated story, posted this “You cannot Judge someone just because...” about a subject that was of interest to you. How come such a different perspective when it’s about you? Or, as the saying goes, is it all about you?

wingnut- As far as the comments/GM haters I just don't know what to say to these people anymore ! This is so much BIGGER than just GM !! I have 26 years with GM and I WILL NOT be taking the 4 year early retirement !!!! I like my job,the people I work with and everything that goes along with it . This WILL have a affect on all of So.Wisconsin for a good number of years to come ,life as we all knew it will be no more .

RUserious. It goes back to the novel idea that this is a PUBLIC forum. Not only to serve GM workers. If that is what you would like, create a blogspot. I have every right to post my opinions.

Good for you, wingnut! and for unidentified, too. I challenge (as you so aptly put it) “the "mental midgets" on here that constantly run down GM (no names are needed, everyone knows who i am referring to...),” to read the posts from each of you. They owe it to you both really, if they can read and post under an article related to YOUR lives, claim it will have no affect on THEIR lives, then proceed to run you (or your family) into the ground. They know nothing of value until they read those posts from you, wingnut, and unidentified.
They demand a car of tomorrow, built by someone earning the wages and benefits of yesterday. And you damn well better suffer getting it to them today.
And no momo1-why should YOU deserve an opinion on a forum related to GM WORKERS if you can denigrate and belittle them. WHY ARE YOU EVEN READING AND POSTING HERE IF LOCAL GM STORIES BOTHER YOU SO MUCH?

hey wingnut ignore dodof1.

Wingnut-721 ~ Preach GM GM GM GM GM GM. Everyone shoves it down your throat. You know what should make you mad??????? When a GM Employee buys a DODGE!! That should make you GM workers super MAD. But instead you are mad at people who disagree with your GM preaching. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. Sucks huh?

Diamondback- I fully wholeheartedly agree with you! the two tier system which may happen, will show the GM haters that the job is most definitely NOT easy....I am so sick and tired of coming on here and seeing people gloating and praising the fact that GM is falling on hard times, while ignoring the fact that there are thousands of families in the area that are dramatically impacted by these events. I surely hope that when the two tier system goes into effect, the "mental midgets" on here that constantly run down GM(no names are needed, everyone knows who i am referring to...), and claim the GM workers are whiny, lazy babies had better be the first ones in line. Other wise they can just keep their mouths closed.
and as far as dcsnick's comment about a "3 year vacation", and this comment right here totally takes the cake! "You know any Gm worker that finds out he/she can sit home and still get paid is not going to jump up and go get a REAL job right away." yes, dcsnick i know some GM workers that are going to choose that route, but i know for a fact that my own father will not take that route, my father is the hardest working man i have ever known and he has busted his ass to give me a good life thanks to him literally killing himself at BOTH Beloit Corp and GM. to have people like you question his work ethic and saying he is going to sit on his butt for 3 years, collecting as much unemployment as he can get, truly gets my blood hitting the boiling point! .... your response is typical of the GM haters on here. And my response to you is one that echoes the pro-GM people on here.... you want GM gone, be careful what you wish for, because it is going to be the death knell for Janesville.

Proud son of a GM Worker,
Larry Tearman Jr.

What's the story with someone showing his "small package" at an Eastside bar and how does that come into play here? LMAO

I don't know why the bar is such an issue. Every Friday, my company gives us free bar starting at 3pm. And we are a subsidiary of a Fortune 500 company.

danias~ I am not sure where you get the idea that I am a stay at home mom that has everything given to her?? I work a full time job. I am not married. I take very good care of myself and in spite of the things that go on with GM, I will be fine.
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You came across as complaining. If you don't like it, fix it. They are offering you a pretty sweet buy out deal, and if you ran the numbers, you could pay off your bills and work a lower paying job and live just as well as you do now. If you don't want people looking at your comments and responding, maybe you shouldn't post at all. That's my opinion.

RUserious Thanks for calling me out on my words. I didn't phrase the working part correctly. I was try to say everyone has job and we all work just as hard as each other. It was meant to come across as understanding that GM jobs are just as hard as other jobs. It's not fake sincerity, I have family and friends that work there and truely hope they get through this okay.

To say that working at GM, Lear, LSI or any other manufacturing facility is not a “Real,” job is both disingenuous and immature. Also, I would add that going to college alone does not help those who are condescending, demeaning, and downright rude. There isn’t enough education in the world that will change some of these people into humans. If those who seem to think having a college degree somehow makes you a real person, then maybe you can bring yourself to feel sorry for the college educated management, engineers, maintenance, office clerks, human resources staff, and on site nurses that will also be losing their jobs. This isn’t just affecting line workers. For some of us, working in a factory is all we need, because it supports our families and doesn’t marry us to our work. Granted, we have all been very lucky, most of us realize that now and always have realized it. Many of us have supported the community with the good wages we've received through charitable work, donations, or patronizing local businesses. It’s not just about losing money; it’s about losing work associates, a comfortable situation, and for some, just losing the ability to make a good American made product we’ve been proud to build. It is disheartening to read these post continuously bashing mostly UAW manufacturing workers. I would love to say that I hope the lower wage base in Janesville may negatively affect newspaper sales, small businesses, and that maybe even the college educated might feel the same pain some of us will be facing, but then that would be lowering myself to the same level of heartlessness I’m seeing daily on these blogs. I don’t think I’ve ever been more disappointed in our community then I am since reading the responses on these blogs. I’ll use this as a mental guide on how NOT to treat other people when the tide changes.

danias-You will never get people to see the big picture on what is really happening here.When our wages/benefits are made public (or thats what most want to think they are)people turn into little green monsters.Sub and UEC are closer to 55% because they don't take out taxes. The true test will be when GM starts hiring the two-tier workers ....then lets see how many think the job is a walk in the park.Most won't make it a week.Keep your chin up and things will start to turn around .

momof5-By the way I used no names or streets (unlike you)so that does say that you could know who this is !! Again I only said east side,and theres a lot to choose from.

Diamondback - that may well be the case but I can tell you that my husband is a member of local 95 (not GM affiliated) and when his contract was negotiated in March it was done locally. Perhaps a locally negiotated contract keeping with the local market for wages and benefits would have kept the Janesville plant running at capacity.

momof5-Earlier opinionforfree had made a comment about south side bars vs.east side being neat and clean.(which had been removed)If you don't like what I have said ...Does that mean you are friends with this person ? These are opinions/comments only !No need to answer as I said these are just opinions/comments.No I don't have issuses or a ax to grind with this person,I also agree about the family on Plam st. but we are on a thread about other issuse.

momof1 why don't you just get a life I wasn't complaing I was telling the facts. I'm not sure what world you're living in I'm living in the real world and it is not looking good for anyone. I'm sorry I'm not a housewife that can sit around and not work. I work hard at my job and so doesn't my husband things aren't served on a silver platter as for most of the people out there so when you get out of fantasy island then I take in your comments seriously until then keep sprinkling your fairly dust.

FACT: Lear Janesville recieves a higher wage than other Lear plants in the area (Sheboygan). That is THEIR local UAW representation at work. I have often heard, from both sides, that the UAW at Lear is stronger than that at GM.
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FACT: Any bar, anywhere, on any side of town will have patrons shedding clothes and doing embarassing acts. It would stand to reason that someone is harboring ill feelings if they need to continuously bring that up on these threads....especially if it is on a thread about GM!!!!
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FACT: GM in Janesville has announced they are eliminating one shift come July 2008. Lazy, drunk, uneducated or what have you does not mean any one deserves to have their livelihood stripped from them. Again, I hope the axe of arrogance never strikes anyone on these boards who are laughing in their neighbors sorrow. And, it has been 2 almost 3 weeks since the announcement....surely enough time to get out all the demons and melancholy thoughts. Stirring the drama pot isn't going to bring any solutions; only more drama and stress.
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FACT: There is a family on N. Palm Street in Janesville, whom I'm sure wish which side of town has crappy bars, why UAW sold their members out, and why the owner of a bar on East Milwaukee Street contiunes to show off his "small package" was the worst of their concerns and problems. Do you "people" not have a life? :)

To “sorry”-you say GM workers work hard, just “not as hard as everyone else”? (On what do you base this assesment?) and “Oh well, you’ve done it to yourself”? Then you say you hope for the best for these individuals and their families? Your sincerity is so believable and touching. Yep.
And kulburt, some of you are charitable? In my experience, and it is my business to know, many, many of you are charitable-a percentage that is, at the least, over and above the general population of the area, both in goods, and in man power--just like your pay (is above average), and as is the work you do to earn every penny of it. But yet-THEY think they have been, and will be, carrying YOU.

But a question to all you GM workers who follow these articles, and who now have an even more important reason to, since the events recently in the news will have a direct affect on YOUR lives. Did they (the Jacksons, tallmans, sorrys, cubfans, etc) ever say WHY they read, follow, and then go on to post under all these GM stories here? Why oh why would anyone read all of this GM stuff, then complain incessantly about how many news stories are about GM, about the lazy, drunken GM workers (not a classification I’d EVER heard of was the general rule until this handful started posting in the GazettExtra’s new format)? They even posted under the “good” stories, ones of a general nature reporting good things about workers, even before this “slowdown” has been in the news. I imagine most of you have come to the same conclusion I have. They all have green eyes. Or else why?

sbm_citizen----First let me say that our LOCAL 95 got us NONE of our benefits .... Are you in shock ?? ALL of our benefits came/come from the NATIONAL CONTRACT ...so for you/anyone eles to say that the local hasn't fought for the suppliers to have what we have that's not GM workers fault . Lear, LSI, and the rest have their own national contract and that's where they get their packages/benefits.Yes this is true !!!

If GM was completly self-funding all of these benefits why would the state be involved at all? There are going to be plenty of state funded programs offered to displaced GM workers, there is no basis to deny this. True employers pay into the UI fund but understand that ALL employers pay into this and if GM closes their doors without enough in their fund to cover the workers guess what the state continues to pay and this short fall would not be recovered from GM. Not that I am saying this will happen but all of the garbage that tax payers are not going to be paying for this is just that - garbage. Tax payers will pay for education, extended benefits and any other social services used - including job services. This should not be a case of GM vs not GM, this is a community problem. Look at both sides, sure GM employees got a good contract negotiated by 'their' local 95 (not no other members of local 95 have the nice deal that GM does)and no one can really fault them for that ...UNTIL the tax payers are picking up the tab when GM can no longer meet the contract and turn a profit. From the public side, there are a lot of people either already out of work or about to be - GM related or not - and it's a hard thing to look at all the attention GM employees get when no matter how you want to look at it they will have a softer landing in all this than others. It's unfortuante that even within the same local union people do not stand together to make sure that ALL members are taken care of and not just GM.

Due i never once said gm people were lazy. I never said you didn't pay taxes. All I said is I hope you take advantage of the gift provided and thats what it is a gift, because in the old days when you got laid off you were sol. I hope that this is just a hiccup in the economy and that you all get a chance to go back to work. I'm not saying that because GM effects my job, because it doesn't. I say that because I don't want to see families struggle to make ends meet.

well as for that ,last i checked i pay state and federal taxes.quite a bit actually. so i guess i wont feel like a lazy beggar should i take advantage of a fine oppurtunity to go back to school. you did know gm emplyees do pay state and federal taxes right. oh yeah and some of us are even charitable people.

The gift is the opprotunity of getting an education paid by the state and federal government that those who are laid off will be able to apply for. It isn't a knock against GM employees, I just hope they take the advantage and get some schooling so they will be able to provide for their families.

"sorry" please clarify. whats this "gift" you all are going to provide ? if you are refering to unemployment thats paid in ahead of time by employers. not really your problem. and personally i dont care how hard you think i do or dont work. yours was a real dose of backhanded sentiment.not realy any sincerity i am sure. i am in no need of any gifts provided by you.i know people are really mad about the help we may get. i for one am grateful . i really dont understand peoples joy of this situation. or the need to snipe. 11 years ago i was raising two kids on $7.50 an hour. and i didnt hate the people who were better off than myself. some of you people are just like the people of yesteryear who would take a picnic to a public hanging. get a life :)

Sorry - "take advantage of the gift that us taxpayers are going to provide them"

And what gift might that be? The taxpayer provides none of what is coming to these people.

For those of you bellyaching what the laid off GM workers may or may not receive in unemployment compensation and sub benefits, what do you think of this one? When the CEO of Home Depot "Robert Nardelli" was forced out of that position for poor job performance, it was negotiated that he be paid a $210 million dollar retirement package. I bet you all think that is just fine since Nardelli wore a suit and tie to work every day so that meant he was worth it. Now, this guy was hired to run Chrysler. Are you sure you always want to blame the UAW for big business's troubles?

I am sorry the GM workers are losing their jobs. I really hope they are able to rebound and take advantage of the gift that us taxpayers are going to provide them. As GM workers you know you have had it good the last few years and yes you work hard, but not as hard as everyone else as you try and make us all think. I hope you that you all were smart enough to save some of those high wages you were making and if you didn't save and you were living large the whole time OH Well you've done it to yourself.

AODA’s. They have them at schools, too, but that’s not to say MOST high school students are drunks-or we will have far more to worry about than what happens at GM. But I think it’s a wonderful service, for any place with a large number of employees. And don’t forget to give credit for employees who use that “benefit”. GM’s, of course, is for other problems beyond substance abuse.
tallman, I’d be bitter, too, if that was my ex. You did the right thing for yourself and your family for getting rid of him/her. Now, you’d be doing the right thing to place the blame where it belongs-on your ex. And you’d be doing a service to that majority of GM (and all other) employees who deserve credit for their sober, hard-working lifestyles by not berating them for that minority who abuse their families and their workmates by not living up to their responsibilities. The “online bars” story is, of course, something your ex fabricated. Think about it for awhile.
jackson-you have a wonderful penchant for exaggeration. Did you ever try writing fantasy novels?

tallman-You are just too funny !!! Your ex is/was a supervisor and had pictures of coolers full for the on line bars ?? First if I thought that was true ...Your ex being MANAGEMENT would NOT have a issuse with taking it and the employee to DLO to have them kicked-out ! One more thing HOW do you think they got past the guards with FULL COOLERS ?? THANKS FOR THE LAUGH ! I have seen some of the after hour party pictures of management ! Not something I care to see again !

My ex was a line supervisor and brought home pictures of coolers full of alcohol for their "On the line bars". Also, it's my ex because our own children threw the ex out of the house one night while I was at work(Not GM). They got sick of the ex's behavior and never coming home from after work parties!! I also worked there for college summer employment only one summer. When lunch time hit the workers were ahead way up the line and raced to the local bars to drink all they could. Why do you think there are so many bars next to GM??? I experienced it first hand both ways. I raised my two children alone after that and they both followed my carreer and not GM. Why does GM need a full time AODA representative for 2,000 workers HUH????

It is amazing that the greed of the union workers during their contracts has caused all these layoffs and buyouts. Someone has to pay for all these benefits which occurs with the sale of vehicles. Now the price of the vehicle is too high and GM can't sell enough to cover the sorry ass union employees. Greed finally caught up to you.

Thanks for the info Gazette.

thankyou thankyou thankyou !!!!!!

Real job, JanesvilleHero? (By the way-where’d you get that name?) If you were working at a one of those “real jobs”, you wouldn’t have anything to complain about, would you? You wouldn’t care (or at least wouldn’t get unduly upset) about what GM workers were doing, getting, or saying, and certainly wouldn’t read stories about them. And you certainly wouldn’t be one of the complainers that complain about, and far outnumber, complaining GM workers.
Now tell me, if GM workers are living on the “clean east side”, what side are you living on, and why don’t you keep it clean, too? And what constitutes a ‘real job”? And, if these people did nothing but get drunk all the time, howzit they keep their “side” clean, and can afford those fancy new cars? And what makes you think they regret taking the job they took? Often it looks like you (and those who post the same) are the ones regretting their job choices.

unidentified: You are right, I went through TAA about 10 years ago. On the other hand both Beloit Corp. and Parker Pen had gone under so there was a large influx of students at BTC. Additionally the conditions for myself were a little different single and, no kids, had a roomate to share costs.

opinionforfree-No comment on the bars ??? Oh yes you can go to a south side bar and also see females topless and the bartenders working in their bras !!!

Blah. Blah. Blah. I'm so tired of reading about these poor helpless GM workers and now these others effected by the layoffs. You took the job. Now things are bad. Deal with it. If you feel you deserve to be babied...you should have gone onto college after high school and got a degree and found a real job. My sympathies only go so far for these over-paid workers that will finally understand what the real working class go through. Not all of us drive fancy new vehicles, live on the "clean" east side and have a job we can go into drunk all the time!

opinionsforfree-you clearly were stating that more than half of GM workers were drunks, 1151 or more. Your words were "Not saying everyone that works there is a drunk. Just a majority." and majority means more than half. If you weren't aware of that, say so. Or were you grossly exaggerating?

I think even the GM workers themselves, not just those who have heard those rumors, would be "aware" of it if every other person on the line was a drunk. (Or are there a bunch of drunks in a row, then a bunch of sober people?) And my curiousity makes me ask you this: does that go for every one of the other "neighborhood" factories, or just GM?

danias - take the buy out. pay off your bills. find a job. not that difficult, so stop complaining.

Diamondback. I am glad you dont drink at work and I never stated everyone did. I can only imagen the quality of the construction of the car&trucks if EVERYONE did. I never ment to make anyone mad or hurt anyones feelings. I made a statement which is something i'm free to do in this country

that's funny diamondback. I, for one, am glad I missed that "presentation".

Opinionforfree-I can tell you that for the 26 years that I have worked at GM .....I have NEVER drank at work ,gone to work drunk ,gone to a bar on my lunch etc. As far as your comment on the crappy bars on the south side ?? Does that mean that you prefer the east side bar that you can watch the owner drop his pants and show himself to all that don't want to see his small package ???

I wished everyone would stop bashing GM workers not everyone are bar flies! I wish Jim Luetes would get all his facts straight before he publishes it in the paper.I emailed him in the contact in red to let him know where ever he is hearing his info is wrong! Were not getting 95% it s more around 65% or so the sub checks are three weeks behind so living on $355 week is hard.I know other working people are stuggling to buy this. It's the people who don't work and living of the system who fires me up!Banks on your home and bill company don't even care to work with you also is hard! So the people who want to keep bashing everyone esp. the gm workers back off complain about something else or do yard work what ever if you don't like what your seeing or hearing shut off the T.V. and quit reading the papers!!!

You know what they say about getting what you pay for? And your name (here) is opinionsforfree. Need I say more?

opinionsforfree: Don’t start to worry just yet. I expect it’s very possible things could start turning around after the first of next year. But if there are a few devastated individuals who turn to the bars for comfort, with all these expected GM (etc) layoffs you will also see an abundance of community volunteers to bring up the moral of an area with more time on its collective hands. Different lifestyles will, and already do, turn to different activities to use their time or to see them through. I'm sorry your experience is such a negative one.
That is MY opinionforfree.

i am willing to bet its not only people who work at gm who go to the tavern. i mean lets be real for a minute. i work at gm i have never had a dui, i rarely drink, i have never been in zachos and i dont drink at work. i do not even have alcohol in my home.and even now that my job at the plant might be threatened i will not turn into a barfly for however long i a might be onlayoff. because even if gm dont need me i have 4 children and a husband that do. its not just gm workers that are keeping the taverns open.

Looks like the bars in janesville will be busy for the next three years lol

dado4: I'm glad it worked out well for you. You must haven been one of the fortunate ones to get laid off prior to this 1000+ people. I have a family member (unrelated to these layoffs)who has been on the list for RN clinicals for Blackhawk Tech/Gateway for over 5 years. One can zip through medical coding or CMA programs easily, but then the pay range is 11-14 dollars an hour. I'm not saying that TAA won't help anyone, but the situation is much different than it was a year or two ago when only a hundred people at a time were getting pink slips. We've had people call Blackhawk for counseling only to be told there is over a month long wait. Hopefully, the state will be able to help make the needed adjustments. In addition, there will be those same 1000+ people competing for jobs once the two years is up. Granted, TAA is much better than nothing, but the road isn't going to be an easy one. This is one time when being laid off sooner would have been a blessing.

I have to disagree with unidentified. TAA was very easy to work with. All I had to do was show up to a meeting and sign some paperwork. Everything related to school was paid for, everything. Books, tuition, supplies, uniforms, you name it as long as you saved receipts. I was also able to continue to collect unemployment as long as I was in school or until the unemployemnt benefits ran out. The only limiting factor is the time frame. I was given about two years of benefits and you can go to any state school tech or UW. That can limit you to a two year degree, but if you have some college or a two year degree from UW-Rock County, this is great way to finish. The "backlog" to get into certain health care fields doesn't really exist. I was told 1-2 years when I signed up. I took one semester of generals and by then the "backlog" had cleared and I was able to get into school the following semester. Additionally tech schools realize the need for nurses and are adding instructors to meet the demand. TAA changed my life.

the reason gm has all of these perks is because the uaw could care less about the lsi and lear people all they want out of the lear and lsi people is the money or they would of been fighting for just as good of deals for these other union members but they didn't they have dropped the ball with these people

The TAA benefits only go as far as the educational facilities in the area. Blackhawk Tech is geared towards manufacturing jobs that are disappearing. In addition, they offer health care oriented education, which they have multiyear backlogs for clinical on many of those programs. They offer some tech education, but those jobs are tough to come by in this area. In addition, there will be several thousand extra people lined up to get some type of training and there are multiple hoops to jump through with TAA. Granted, it is better than a sharp stick in the eye and many will be thankful to have it offered, but it isn’t going to be a soft landing or an easy ride even once these people get re-educated through TAA.

This is the perfect time for those retail and service workers who have worked all the nights, weekends and crappy hours to realize what the union can do for YOU!!! Start a union stand up against those companies making millions in profit and paying CEO's at record levels. This is what has been needed for many years. Then instead of complaining, these workers too will be making a living wage and those high paid and laid off workers making 95% can spend more and support you. It's time for those making the big wages to pay far more to support their brothers and sister's in the work force.

Trust me GM as a company could care less if this Janesville plant stays open or not. It's all about profit, loss margins and what serves them and thier stockholders best which for the most part are not their own employees. All of this communication about the YEARS of benefits only disgusts the average income worker and encourages them to NOT but GM vehicles.

This is what is wrong with unions today. You make demands and price yourselves out of a job, still get money for doing nothing, and then you cry you can't make it on what you earn.

Its because of this jobs go overseas and prices continue to climb sky high

Learn to live with what you NEED not with what you WANT and live like the rest of us do in this county.

TAA is a federal program. I used it when Beloit Corp. folded in the the late 1990's. I left the manufacuring industry and entered health care and with my two year nursing degree I make far more money now. I am also working towards my 4 year degree through UW-Madison.

If you want a parachute for the Janesville residents stop talking about GM closing, we know that is a sure thing, and discus what direction you want our City to go in. I think the Gazette should be printing articles about what leaders, and City employees have on the table to maintain Janesvilles economic system.

janesvillecomments,

If you would have gotten a four year degree instead of doing 2 at U-Rock and 3 at Blackhawk Tech, you would be making more than the GM workers. Go back and finish that degree you started at U-Rock.

There probably is some jealousy in people not making GM-level wages. When I entered the labor market after high school and two years at U-Rock, the last thing I wanted to do was get stuck in an assembly line, doing the same thing 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year, for the rest of my life.

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After a decade of low-paying retail clerking work, I was ready to work a union job, but there weren't any available locally. I spent another decade working at local non-union manufacturers, and five years in the service sector and found that the work wasn't as bad as I had thought it would be and the pay was better than retail work.

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After investing three years at Blackhawk Tech, I've now have a decade in working in the IT field. It doesn't pay as much as GM or Lear, but pays more than LSI - according to the chart on the front page of the Sunday Gazette. I really like what I'm doing, and wouldn't trade jobs to work at GM even if it were still a stable employer.

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I hope the workers (and the city) manage this downsizing as well as possible, because - despite the case made for keeping the Janesville plant open made by the Gazette edtiorial:

1. I'm sure the work ethic of the Arlington, Texas Plant workers is just as strong as the Janesville plant.

2. I'd be willing to bet the union leaders in Arlington would also make concessions to keep jobs there.

3. The Arlington plant is located on I-30, between the major markets of Dallas and Fort Worth, which also has the North-South I-35, the proposed NAFTA superhighway, for their transportation network.

4. The Janesville plant IS the oldest and at some point will cost more to maintain and retool than to build a new plant from scratch. GM has never shied away from closing locations they've recently spent money on. One of my ex-inlaws transferred to Janesville from a foundry in the Chicago area GM closed right after spending millions on improvements. He got a couple of years in at Janesville before GM gave local workers the "we might be closing this plant, better transfer to Fort Wayne if you want to be guaranteed a job" deal.

5. Sure, the plant might have strong support from state and federal lawmakers, but I doubt the Texas (or Mexican) politicians are lining up to spit at their General Motors plants.

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I'm wishing good luck to the GM and supplier employees. I think they'll need it.

Yeah, enjoy your sandwich, you earned it. The rest of us will do just fine.

Obviously Jim Leute doesn't know how to figure percentages. Twelve Hundred dollars gross for a 40 hour work week compared to $780.00 gross when on lay off is not 95% as Mr. Leute would have you beleive. It is actually 65% of my pay. I sure am not asking for anyones sympathy and am thankful for my benefits. Wrong information provided by Mr. Leute is what fuels the hate for GM workers. Please get the facts correct. In certain situations we get 95% of our pay, not on lay off.

Everyone? HAH! not me.

We have EARNED what we got! Why would we look for another job,knowing the pay would be less than the unemployment benifits? Anyone who says they are looking for work is flat-out lying(unless they got themselves screwed by claiming false benifits).Its just simple economics,get a common job like most of these idiots complaining,or go back to school with 355 a week.Its a no brainer.
I can see that there is a bunch of people around here that are seriously jealous of what we have earned,but they themselves had the same chance as us to work for any of these companies.The community WILL feel the impact of GM's down-size.Maybe even causing some of the "regular"jobs around town to cut back as well.Its a big S**T-sandwich,and EVERYONE will take a bite!

dcsnick you are so wrong about the workers being LUCKY to have the union. The union who consistantly works to support the very politicians that vote against 1. drilling in alaska 2. drilling offshore of our own coasts 3. building nuclear plants in the US 4. building refineries THEREFORE HURTING THE MEMBERS WHO SUPPORT THEM It is just so stupid it is beyond belief

1ST I don't work for either 3. If GM is still going to pay the laid off people almost their full wage and benifits then why lay them off. Make them do some work. Laid off GM workers sound like they are getting a pretty good deal. You know any Gm worker that finds out he/she can sit home and still get paid is not going to jump up and go get a REAL job right away. Sit at home for about 3 years with 95% of their full wage and health insurance. No wounder why Gm looses so much money every year. Wish I could take a 3 YEAR vacation. Gm workers you are lucky you have the union to save you. Other people are not as lucky. Mean while LSI and LEAR get the shaft.

I agree with Whatdidyousay. This is not a State or Federal handout. These are benefits that either the union or the employee them self has negotiated and paid for. I say good for them to have the intelligence to have negotiated this into their contract for this sort of situation. Good luck to all of them.

What CRAP !!!! anyone else wouldn't get any "EXTRA" HELP . they make to much money anyhow and get treated like spoiled children . How many people got laid off at Stoughton Trailers and didn't get special treatment ? Build a bigger gas sucking truck and see who buys it , lets go back to the basics , 55 MPH interstate and 35-40 MPG cars that don't have dvd players for the babies