Irishgirl: DO NOT MAKE BUBBLES ANGRY! Those parker teachers...once they get started they'll never stop! (Trust me) hahaha

ms sass...well said!! Too many friends for parents!

I don't expect "little minds" to be near perfection...I do expect kids to be respectful of adults and authority, though, and teachers, police officers and others do not get respect. It isn't because they haven't earned respect; I think that's a cop out for not teaching children HOW to SHOW respect. Just because you had a difficult time with a teacher when you were in school, or last year with the principal, or last semester with the lunch staff doesn't give anyone the go ahead to treat their teacher with disrespect, and I don't care what neighborhood you live in, what your parent does for a living, whether you have one or two parents or whether you are wealthy or poor. Yes, in many regards you have to earn respect, but the teacher has the authority in the classroom and the students must show proper respect. If there are isolated incidents, take them up with administration, otherwise teach your kids that life isn't always fair and you can't always get your way.

Take a look at these forums. How in the hell do you expect our children to get along in this world when no one here can?

You expect little minds to be near perfection, yet adults are allowed to act ridiculously. Sick.

here is your health class- it will just take a second of your time. here goes

if you have sex use a condom or dont have sex at all. class dismissed.

why does there have to be a whole semester of this. the other stuff should be covered in anatomy. this should be another part of parenting that isnt covered at home by most I am guessing along with behavioral problems that exist.

I am with ms sasys off topic- I am pro choice- I do understand what she is trying to say about the other part. I believe she doest want abortions to happen but it is up to that person what to do not the government. I do believe they should carry it and give to a parent that wants a child.

hey sassy we agree once

It may be negative news, but you all are certainly reading it aren't you.......like I said before...there are other papers..move on!!

Hey Frank: That was over a year ago. I think "nowind" might be interested in THIS school year.

lovetoscrap, I'm not saying anyone SHOULD have an abortion! I'm saying kids should be given more information during health classes so they can protect themselves from unwanted pregnancies, so that they will not find themselves in a predicament that will change their lives. It's not helping young women to ignore the health (and social) issue of protection.

stop putting words in my mouth and think for a moment that the kids that are in trouble might be homes where love and attention are not being given. Love and attention (in proper forms) by loving parents are generally viewed as being one of the single best ways of ensuring that a child will feel a sense of purpose and belonging. Without that, you will find that children act out and find ways to receive attention in other ways, generally negative.

OK I searched for that artical: Parker students advance in regional history contest
Funny how that did not come up in any searches. But I ran a search for Expelled and found 20 more artical just like this.

I'm just saying it seems the Gazette likes to highlight the negative rather than the positive. You may also note that until you mentioned it, one one on this blog had mentioned a positive student acomplishment.
I guess it goes back to the old news saying "If it Bleads it Leads"

Nowind, please note that The Janesville Gazette ran the following article:
Parker students advance in regional history contest
Gazette Staff

Friday,April 6, 2007

JANESVILLE
Members of Parker High School's Young Historians club recently participated in a National History Day competition.

Advancing through the competition's regional bracket were:

-- Phil Bothun in the senior individual documentary category with his project about World War II British Special Forces titled "The Sea of Fire: Conquering the Ultimate Combat Challenge."

-- Amber Mayfield in the senior individual documentary category with a project about federal legislation titled "Title IX: Women Winning Equal Rights in Sports."

-- Elle Jacobsen in the senior Web site category with a project about a shipwreck on Lake Michigan titled "The Rouse Simmons: The Christmas Tragedy."

Qualifying as alternates in the group documentary category were Nick Cahill and John Zillmer for their project about U.S. forces in the Philippines in World War II titled "The Raid at Cabanatuan: The Most Heroic Rescue Mission in the Pacific."

Other student competitors and their projects included:

-- Senior documentary individual—"Carrie Jacobs Bond: The End of a Perfect Day?" by Alayna Spengler and "The Keepers of the Fire: The Potawatomi's Journey," by Brittney VanDeWiel.

-- Senior group documentary— "Le Regne de Terreur: The Reign of Terror," by Meghan Walker and Jason Mumma; "Kennedy Assassination: The Tragedy of Camelot," by Laura Neuenschwander, Maddie Adams and Heather Huhn, and "Blackhawk: The Massacre at Bad Axe," by Mike Strieker, Jake Moore and Tyler Stinemates.

The club's advisers are teacher Steve Strieker and librarian Laurie Bauer.

This has gotten off topic. Abortion has nothing to do with children who are expelled, unless you are indirectly stating the children "should have" been aborted. Talking about if abortion would have solved these child's problems is like beating a dead horse. No use.

For every single parent child I teach I have a child from a 2 parent family. I don't see a difference in the children. 2 parents can be just as neglectful as a single parent. I see more and more parents not supportive of education and see sending their kids off to school as just babysitting. And for every one of those parents I have parents that are very supportive. I see children growing up with less morals and respect in general. It comes from the parents. Not only do I have to teach the 3Rs I also have to be a counselor, nurse and parent to a small percentage of my kids. I find a large part of my day is teaching kids how to get along with each other and follow rules. What's sad is when they look at me after I tell them NOT to do something and they do it anyway knowing that nothing will happen to them. They need more discipline (not beatings). I for one am a single parent; not always as strict as I should be but my daughter is very respectful of her teacher and she knows that getting an education is not a choice.

Ms sassy...so are you insinuating that teenage parents should have abortions? Or is it just the single moms? Or maybe you mean poor people? Are you suggesting that this would solve the problem?

you rock, bn1967!

As a teacher I always have the parents who bash me because their child was timed out for hitting, kicking, sassy mouthing me or whatever. Parents always have an excuse as to why their child behaved in badly. They want to blame the other students and not see that their child did wrong. I can bet the parents of the children expelled are trying to fight the expulsion saying their child was not at fault! I can see a child smack a kid (unprovoked) and then have to deal with the parent blaming the other child or me for the behavior. Truly parents are the worse part of my job. I would NEVER want to be able to hit a child but I would LOVE to be able to be supported by parents and have them back me up when their child does wrong.

Sheesh.

absolutely NOT! I am for a woman deciding for herself what is best for HER in HER situation.

*(I am on the side of Pro-Choice, but not Pro-abortion)...*

Wow, that's quite the mental pretzel you've weaved yourself into. Kinda sounds like being pro-murder but anti-death. If the choice you are for is abortion than you are indeed "pro-abortion".

Sheesh.

and let's not forget about the "ever so helpful" (NOT) No Child Left Behind Act. The concept, in theory, is good, in that teachers recognize a child's special circumstance and work TOGETHER with the parents to help correct the problem. BUT, instead...teachers don't have time to deal with all of the "special circumstances" because there are TOO MANY! They try. And I think they truly do WANT to make a difference in the student's life, for the most part, but they cannot MAKE a child take an interest or be enthusiastic about learning. If the rest of the class is interested, you can't always blame the teacher.

I agree with intrigued: public schools are for EDUCATION. I think every school should continue with the volunteer "breakfast clubs" to ensure that children who maybe wouldn't get a good breakfast at home have that as an option, as that is the most important meal of the day, especially for children trying to concentrate and learn, but if there are behavioral problems beginning in Kindergarten, with disrespect, not following the rules or violent behavior...the consequence is not being in school (a day? a week? whatever it takes for Little Johnny to "do school right"). The parent will then need to figure out a way (hopefully with support from Social Service agencies) to properly parent and discipline their child.

Another problem that I see is that schools are unable to discuss safe sex, birth control and healthy relationships in Health classes and end up having children that they do not want and are unprepared for financially and emotionally, the social norm does not approve of abortions (I am on the side of Pro-Choice, but not Pro-abortion)...so the generally single parent is depressed, alone and angry, but has a child or children and doesn't know how to deal with life. This should not be the Public Schools problem to solve, but these are the kids enrolled.

I repeat...kind of a pathetic little story.

11 Madison-area students win at National History Day

Funny how I never see reports like this in the janesville Paper.
http://www.madison.com/tct/news/stories/...
Unless it's about sports
Is it the schools or the news paper.

Nowind - I would like to be with you on that and I understand this could be the case is a few situations. However, I grew up in a poor family that provided me with breakfast every day. The way that happened was, my parents gave up some things they may have wanted so they could stretch their budget to cover keeping a roof over our heads and food on our table. It is amazing to me that among the families I see, pretty much across the board they both have extras like microwaves, cell phones and cable TV. Families that care about their children know that these things are extraneous. The issue I see is too many parents (of all economic backgrounds) worried about themselves and what they want over what their children need.

I don't want any children to go hungry, I just DO NOT want these issues to be the responsibility of our public schools.

intrigued
I am with you except for one point. You can not blame the kids for bad parenting. There are plenty of kids in this country who only get a good meal at school. It is not fair to them if the parents can not supply the food they need for learning.

I think school administrators need to stand up and say "Enough! We are not social services institutions, we are EDUCATIONAL institutions." Any child who cannot come to school fed, clothed, well rested and ready to learn should be turned away at the door. It's time to throw the wretched family situations occuring in this country back to human services where it belongs. Behavioral and discipline problems are social and mental health issues and I am sick and tired of hearing about how much time and energy those things take away from teachers and the students who are ready to learn.

Parents and school administrators, stand up. It's time for a revolution in education and family dynamics in this country. Poverty is not an excuse for behavior problems, there are plenty of poor people who grew up respectful. Let's stop stooping to the lowest common denominator.

bubbles: are you one of the adults that think what ever they say is correct, and the children are the liars. Take off the rose colored glasses, and take a look at what really goes on. The child in question does take responsiblity for there actions, however, adults can make life hell for people at school. You can not be that blind you can't see that. It is not ALWAYS the child in the wrong just because they are kids!!! Reality check---- where do you think some of the adults learn there behavior?? They did it as kids!!

Pat
Im glad to see you are such an optomist. Looks like the bottle is 90% full in your world. I have met lots durring my like that think "Everyone does- Blank"

Every one who drank thought almost everyone Drinks, Everyone who Smoked pot thought everyone smoked pot. Everyone in Iraq blows up IED's
The point is, Just because you see the folks in your small circle of this world doing the same thing does not mean "Everyone" is doing it. It's time to open your vision and see the good in people as well. If you are not seeing what you want out of life with the people around you, It is time to chance the people around you.

Proartist my children do not think of me as a bully. I have raised a daughter who is almost 16 and my son is 5. Both children received spankings, especially in the younger years and my son still occasionally receives a swat. My children are repsectful and well behaved. My daughter is not like typical teenage girls who have sex at the age of 14, mouth off to their parents, drink, take drugs, and generally don't care about anyone but themselves. I am thankful that I raised her to be the person she is today. She has learned that she has consequences in life and sometimes those consequences don't feel too good. Maybe, if everyone raised their children in this manner, there would be more kids like her! My son at age five, loves to hold doors open at restaurants for people exiting and entering. He already shows care and concern for his fellow man. At age five, he obeys better than most kids twice his age. And, he wasn't beat to achieve this. My prayer is that when my children grow up and have families of their own, that they will still have rights as parents.

Irishgirl It's no wonder we have problems with students not responding to adult directives. They argue and believe they are always "victim" never taking responsibility for their own actions. When adults cop the attitude that you have about isolated incidents and want people to believe that is the norm, it just shows your ignorance. You are talking about a personal issue and it does not reflect the policies at most schools regarding discipline. Maybe having that child take responsibility for their own actions and realizing that all actions have consequences would be a better deterent.

I am sorry you think not even half of the kids drink? Are you kidding? Come visit Evansville and Footville, Orfordville. I am willing to bet its more like 90% drink. Drinking is a huge problem.

I do believe the individuals involved would also be personally liable.

irishgirl, As I've said in another post, I'm no fan of lawyers .... But sometimes you need them .....If what you describe is happening, I'm sure there are plenty of good contingency lawyers willing to construct a hefty lawsuit against that school district for stuff like that and it would more than serve them right.

First off, I think less than 1/2 of the kids drink. I think teachers need to have more authority, these kids now days walk all over everyone they can. My folks talk about "back in the day" and you didn't dare disrespect a teacher. Now, once the kids get out of elementary school they are no longer held accountable for homework as they were before. If it's done it's done if not you just get an f. I was scared if my work wasn't done, now days kids don't give a rip. I'm amazed on a daily basis on how disrespectful teens are. My children have been taught to hold doors open, please, thank you etc.. And I have children ranging from 5 to 20. Once again, it all starts at home.

The problem that I see with teachers having the ability to discipline kids is this. If the teacher does not like your child for what ever reason, that is going to give them all the more reason to bully the child, as I have seen it happen in one of the local schools. The lunch room aid does not like one child, he can not do anything right, and whenever there is an issue at lunch, he is blamed, and is punished for it. They take the side of the aid, because she is an adult, and we all know they don't lie, it has to be the child. RIGHT!! This child has had to do more of her lunch room duties that we as tax payers pay for, than the aid has done, it is done on a daily basis. It doesn't do any good to bring it to the attention of the administration, they side with the aid, and the child only suffers more because the parents complain. That is how some of the adults act in school, and you want them to be able to hit with the ruler!!! Get a clue to what is really going on in the schools before you suggest this be done.

TrojanVirus187,

You start allowing teachers to hit kids with rulers and teachers will end up getting beat up. These kids are way beyond out of control and it is because parents these days don't raise their kids. To many of them, kids are a "nice to have as long as they are not an inconvenience" to the parent's lives. Furthermore, most parents today are afraid to hit their kids when they act up. I got my ass swapped when I was young and I will swap my kid's asses when they act up. It definitely makes the child think twice about misbehaving. And it does not traumatize them. I am fine and don’t have nightmares because of it.

Are you one of those punks. Cocktail1848 you write like you are. I talked with a teacher whose comment has always been ' there is no place quite like public schools.' You are trapped there 8 hours a day whether you want to be there or not. You are surrounded by people you may or may not get along with. Lets not even talk about the cafeteria, because that is just a zoo. Many, many kids who had issues in trouble in high school go on to leave productive lives, go to college, tech school , find a job and keep it.

Now the real story is some of those honor and high honor students who do nothing after high school. Because they don't care to. They did not like school and are not going to continue on . That is the sad story.

Spankings, beating, and "knuckle rapping" do NOT equal discpline. They do NOT build character, integrity nor respect. Violence and the fear of violence only reinforce the fact that bullies come in all forms and sizes whether in the home, classroom, or even the White House.

Can't wait til these punks are 18 so we can pay for their welfare.

If you read the story about the teacher accused of hitting the student, the teacher's attorney admits it happened but that it was a 'accident'.

teachers can not engage in that type of behavior for what ever reason.

This is just another example of a teacher who thinks they walk above the line and law.

Most students react to how they are treated.

At the risk of saying something positive, I notice there are five fewer kids espelled this year than there were at this time last year. That sounds like progress to me.

I read all of the time the " when I was a kid " stuff. I will add mine. When I was a kid I was battered, picked on, had my nose broken and I was abused by a teacher. I carried a zip gun to school my whole senior year.

I came very close to taking a shotgun to school and wiping out several teachers and classmates.

Disipline at home was something I felt over and over. What changed my behavior was not beatings, but a person who entered my life and cared about me. Often what helps troubled youth is just somebody who cares about a person enough make them feel special.

My wife and I have raised three good kids, one is a doctor, one an engineer and one works with troubled kids helping them with drug and alcohol problems. ( This child was picked on, abused and a very troubled person who finally graduated from college at age 40 )

Kids and all people must feel good about themselves to be good people. Teachers and students need to care about others.

It has been over 50 years since I attended Janesville High School and I notice little has changed.

Curious two of the kids were expelled for 'breaking the rules' I am sorry the grounds for expelling should be drugs, and fighting.

breaking the rules? Please teachers and staff break the rules all the time at E.H.S.

Its funny how teachers will swear and nothing happens, but a student does and its a disorderly conduct ticket.

The adults have to set the example and they are not.

Holding Johnny back? Please this is not the day of one room school houses where everyone is stuck with no place to go.

Most of these kids if there is a problem leave on there own or get kicked out of the classroom.

TRUE THAT optimism! :)

PARENTS AND TEACHERS are NOT meant to be a child's friend! Please remember that.

Yep, keep it up congress, keep sticking your noses in on how we dicipline our children! The rights of parenting have all but been taken away, as well as the rights of teachers. Honestly, teachers should be able to rap the knuckles of kids like they used to and parents should CONTINUE or START spanking their children for misbehaving. Kids have no respect for their comminity or elders or peers. And they wonder why the jails are over crowded!!

billnewbie is right on track - the kids who do care, who want to learn, are being held back by the "Johnnys" of the world who are ruining it for everyone else. Who's to blame? Parents? Teachers? Administration? HEY how about the KIDS !! Let's have them take a little responsibility for the problems they cause as well. It's out of hand - a slap on the wrist doesn't deter them at all - if you have to expel half of the students so be it. The other half will be better off.

At this point, there are so many uncontrolled/uncontrollable dynamics in effect in public schools that its going to be near impossible to correct...Its like that game where you pound one thing down and another immediately pops up...The best thing anyone can do is invest in homeschooling or some other alternative ...Its no coincidence that "public" schools all over the nation are experiencing the same problems.

I think these kids who were expelled were a bit to old to spank. If a kid is smoking anything in the parents home they should not need to spank a teenager, but call the police have them ticketed and don't pay the damn fine. Let them go through the court experience and explaining themselves to a judge before it is something more serious.

The Evansville school district needs to get rid of Heidi C, and get some one in there who will make the staff, in particular at the high school walk the line. It is a mess.

Perhaps if the parents were not getting charged with felony child abuse for spanking kids who run away, smoke THC in thier house, or threaten to burn the house down, parents would feel like they were able to discipline their children.

I think some teacher's are in over their head before they know it. I know of some teacher's who try to be friends with the kids, instead of teacher/student. Then when there is a issue it is bad. Teacher's also need to be consistent, some are not you can't let something go one day, and get mad about it the next. mixed mssgs. I see it alot I work at the Evansville High School. Just as there are disrespectful kids, there are disrespectful teachers and staff. Being a adult does not mean you get respect you better damn well earn it.

Teachers seem to want to be treated as though they are on a higher level, like I would not lie, or do that because I am a teacher you must believe me. Baloney. They are human and screw up just as much as the kids.

No schools are not the same, Students are not the same, and teachers are not the same.

You get what you give.

A teacher can not earn the students respect if the parent(s) do not teach the children respect for people and rules in the 1st place.
Are there bad teachers...Well just as with any group there will be good and bad and the bad should be dealt with right along with the bad students.

meinelkm20- I see nothing hypocritical in what I said.

Amen. Public schools are not what they used to be. That goes for what we see from school staff and teachers as well. They used to be beyond approach, you did not having them swearing in class, making rude comments to certain students and threatening students. But now does it is more of a free for all. Students need to see staff and teachers being held accountable and then maybe you would see a change in student behavior.

quite frankly if one give respect you will get it. However teachers just seem to think they deserve it . I am sorry, you have to earn it like everyone else.

Give it and you will get it.

What about the teacher who thinks when I tell a student to do something they better damn well jump and do it? What about the teacher who has a bad habit of playing favorites and always seems to have a problem with the 'same' kids no matter what they do.
What about the students who tend to get out of line and decide to change their ways and work hard at making positive changes at school and they still are verbally abused by these same teachers.

It goes both ways, all teachers and school staff are not created equal.

just look at the Evansville school district for examples.

I agree with doglover. That news report is very vague. It's hard to decipher who's telling the truth without know the history of the student and the history of the teacher. I will say that the incidents described in the expulsion article above are not just limited to middle schools and high schools. I teach in an elementary school where there are FIRST graders who refuse to follow directions and rules. These students are sent to the principal's office on a daily basis, and they don't blink an eye.

rims: No, teachers should not be allowed to "beat up on" students. However, the link that you submitted to an article about a Green Bay teacher contains very minimal and vague information in my opinion. Since I don't know the teacher or the student it would be hard to comment on. I do know however, that students know that teachers have their "hands tied" many times when it comes to discipline. Teachers are very fearful of the vindictive student who gets mad about a consequence and then falsely accuses the teacher of something. Or worse, plots something harmful against them. I.E. the third graders in Georgia who were going kill their teacher because a student was upset she had to sit at the "time out table". Things are WAAAYYYYY different in schools than what they were years ago.

O.K. what about a teacher who beat up a student. Right here in Wisconsin. How come kids are expelled for fighting , but teachers can beat on kids and keep teaching??

My guess would be he won't be for long.
http://www.channel3000.com/education/162...

If the law and the courts say the schools can't discipline and the parents won't discipline for the teachers then what else can be done? If little Johnny won't follow the rules and Johnny's parents can't or won't do anything about it then little Johnny needs to be home schooled or sent to TAGOS or Ethan Allen or wherever so that little Betty and Bobby can learn without little Johnny taking up all the teacher's time and making life miserable for Betty and Bobby, and all the other students who follow the rules.

Teachers only have the level of authority that the parents will support.
If parents have the not my child syndrome and do not support teachers authority then the kids know where to turn for a way out.
When I was young, the parents and teachers were lock step together and it made a huge difference to a kid who would try something.

First of all, discipline should begin at home and when parents are "allowed" to discipline and elect to use their rights, then we would not have half the problems we are now facing with our youth. Yes, teachers should be able to discipline and yes, any one caught drinking, taking drugs, selling drugs or breaking any other "rule" should be expelled. So what if it's half the school! It's time we took back our rights and raised children who respect authority! What has happened to this country?

Point B: incoming high schoolers KNOW that there is a ZERO Tolerance Policy. If the Court System can't get people to make better choices by threatening jail time, why would a kid who doesn't even want to be in school care if s/he gets kicked out?

The Janesville School District has a ZERO Tolerance Policy, for drugs, alcohol, weapons and violence, which I agree with. However, there are really really REALLY big problems with teachers having ZERO authority in the classrooms. It's a whole lot different now than when I was in school, and I don't think it's for the better....

I would like to see the teachers have more authority to punish children in the lower grades and that would teach the students (my theory only, of course) how to show respect for authority. Punishment, of course, does not mean beatings. It means that there are things that HAVE to be done (or not done) and there is a consequence for not doing it (or doing it when it should not have been done). Sitting in a "naughty chair" while remaining in class with your peers does wonders for kids to improve their behavior at a young age.

Maybe God just needs to wipe us out again. He can't be too happy with humans. There is no respect, no "golden rule", no loving (not necessarily LIKING) of others...it's just what is in it for me, and if I HAVE to be at school when I don't want to, I can sure find a way to get out...kind of a pathetic little story.

I'm not saying peer pressure is a valid excuse. I don't condone drugs at all, or drinking while still in high school. I'm just saying that expelling kids because of drinking and drugs would be far worse for them than trying to school them. I know there are people in the schools who can get through to the kids, it's just a matter of reaching out and doing it.

Just because "half the school" is using alcohol and drugs, doesn't mean they should get away with it. If half the student body is expelled, maybe incoming high schoolers will think twice about the choices they make. There are students who fight peer pressure every day and win. That should not be used as an excuse for poor choices.

Yes, but the other half would get the education we all pay so dearly for(I sincerely doubt that half would be expelled).

First of all, hit kids with rulers again? I think that's kind of hypocritcal, don't you think? Expel kids for being bullys (beating up others) then give teachers the right to hit students? That's not setting a very good example.

And billnewbie, if the district expelled every bully, drug user, possessor, and alcohol user, you would honestly expel over half the school. I'm willing to bet well over half the junior and senior classes, and probably close to half the freshmen and sophomores at least drink, if not drink and do drugs. Neither one is hard to come by, and peer pressure is not easy to resist. If you kicked them out, told them to take their problems elsewhere, the city would still be dealing with their problems, only on a much larger scale.

Rather than trying to reduce expulsions, as has been discussed by the school board, I suggest that they expel every bully who terrorizes a fellow student, every known drug possessor and user, and every known alcohol user. Let them take their behavior problems elsewhere so that the rest of the students can learn and teachers can teach. You can't force the disinterested to learn, so why let them destroy educational opportunities for everyone else?

I believe that if teachers were allowed to hit kids with rulers like they did back in the older days, we wouldn't have this problem. Kids didn't act up back then like they do now. By hitting I don't mean beating.