How are poor and elderly people going to be able to watch TV when the stations go all digital and their TV's go black?

Funny how there is never any fraud when a democrat wins........

what a concept, shutupandfish!!

Amen shutupandfish.

There is a plan to ensure all people will receive a photo ID. EVERYONE!! We can give food stamps and medical care to poor people we should be able to give them a photo ID card.

No. It's not hard to show ID if you have it.

Is it really that hard to show an ID?

So it's Bushes fault that people in Florida don't know how to punch a hole in a card. Why did Gore just want some counties recounted in Florida and not all? Seems he only wanted the heavy democratic counties recounted. Is that fraud?

Or maybe "appointed" official fraud?

Or was it "elected official" fraud?

Spanky wrote..."I'm convinced that Bush lost Wisconsin because of voter fraud."

Well I, (and the majority of voters) am convinced that Bush "won" the presidency because of voter fraud.
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Florida....Ohio.....

I was just stating that he "probably" won because of voter fraud that article that was brought up by whybesad only focuses on Milwaukee. If it happened in Milwaukee I'm sure it happened in other cities. I didn't necessarily mean the last election that Doyle won either. Mark Green didn't have a strong campaign and Macallum was a weak candidate. Doyle also ran on a pretty conservative campaign which he has gone away from and I hope people realize that when he is up for re-election. I think Scott Walker would have a good shot at beating Doyle. I wasn't trying to convince anybody that he won because of voter fraud I just threw that out there for people to realize that it could have been a possibility. I'm convinced that Bush lost Wisconsin because of voter fraud. He only lost by 12,000 votes to Kerry.

By the way.... I'm not a Doyle fan, but let's not distort the facts.

whybesad.....
I chewed, and chewed, and chewed some more, but I could not come up with anything in your link to even come close to validating what Spanky wrote..."Doyle would probably never have been elected if it wasn't for fraudulent votes".....
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Here is the vote tally from the last gubernatorial election.....
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Doyle...1,139,115
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Green...979,427
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You had better dig a little deeper to convince me that voter fraud influenced that election.

www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=324...

That should be easier for you.

Johndoe here is a link for you to chew on a bit.www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=324933 Milwaukee county is a heavy democratic county.

Spanky wrote..."Doyle would probably never have been elected if it wasn't for fraudulent votes".....
.
Time to back up your words with facts.
I'll be waiting.

Hillary said that Iraq and Saddam harbored terrorists not Bush.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i87cZ3Og6...

justsaynotomath,
what did Bush lie about?
Madeline, Billy, Howard, Sandy, Nancy, Jay, Joe, Harry, Hillary, John and Evan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnjcofMFH...

Doyle would probably never have been elected if it wasn't for fraudulent votes. That's why he's against the voter ID bill. It's ok to show a photo ID to get cold medicine but, it's not ok to show a photo ID to vote?

Recent Texas voter fraud prosecutions:

http://www.txcn.com/sharedcontent/dws/ne...

Of course, it's not clear to me that any of the cases prosecuted in Texas would have been stopped by a voter ID law such as the one proposed here.

Dean Wormer would agree.

Bitter, uninformed and irrational is a bad combination.

justsaynotomath:
Your posts are rather telling just how bitter of a person you are. My post never did attack you. I simply pointed out facts, which you are free to look up, and challenge if you think they are incorrect (which they are not). You make all these wild claims, and exaggerations, but fail to have any facts behind any of them.
.
If you want to blame Bush for $4.00 gasoline, blow yourself away, but I have news for you; it doesn't matter who is in power. The President does not control the market price of free market, world traded, commodities. If you want to blame anyone; blame the CONGRESS (and I admit; many of the Republicans in congress are just as responsible as are the Democrats) for INSANE spending, that has resulted in huge deficits, and in turn a sinking US dollar, which is the prime reason why commodities have went through the roof (as most all commodities are denominated off the US dollar).
.
Ms-sassy:
Ahhh; it happens. I forgive you..You seem all right, for a democrat and all, haha.

Whatdidyousay-You nailed that one on the head.

Wisconsin also has their own law and was signed into Law before the federal Law was put in place. The Wisconsin law is:
WI Act
14 which defines the sale of PSE in Wisconsin
Here's a link defining the two:
http://www.pswi.org/government/Pseudoeph...

Bush is a liar and everyone knows that. so it's funny when you call it spin or not knowing history. you can attack me all you want and it changes nothing. you still back a stupid president that can not even read things written down for him. Bush is a JOKE and so are the people who voted for him. your so right about everything, how is this administration working out for you ? i know republicans love war but how about $4.00 gas ? do you like that too ? how about 4.00 bread ? i'm sure you don't care because that's the republican way, get what you want and screw everyone else. we had a war and you lost it, move to the south please !

my bad. *blushing*

Ms -sassy:
Sorry but Von Hollen is a Republican.
He defeated the very liberal Democrat Kathleen Falk, back in Nov 06.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx...

btw: J.B. Van Hollen, Wisconsin’s Attorney General and the one who wrote this article, is a democrat. I'm not trying to perpetuate the issue of whether this is a republican/democrat or bi-partisan issue, I just thought I would point out that the democrats are equally concerned about fair voting....

Whatdidyousay:
I was only being sarcastic.
The reason most democrats don't want photo ID, is because it's easy to cheat the system like they did in 2000, and obtain illegal votes.
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Justsaynotomath: save your outrage, and condescension. It's rather nauseating. Gore lost on every count in Florida. Gore was the one who brought the whole thing to court to begin with. Even after it was decided by the supreme court, the newspapers went back and did their own counts under the freedom of information act (counting all the votes as Gore wanted). It did not change anything, Bush still one every media count, no matter what method was used (hanging chads, dimpled chads and all that nonsense). In fact his margin was more then the original counts.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/media/media_...
.

Oh, and you may want to actually look up your facts on the supreme court before throwing out baseless spin. There were only two judges who were appointed by Bush (sr). Souter and Thomas. Souter actually sided with Gore.
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So good spin, and all, but lacking in substance.

By the way, this is not just something Gov. Doyle signed in to law. It is a Federal Law, governing ALL states.

The United States Congress has recognized the use of pseudoephedrine in the illicit manufacture of methamphetamine. In late 2005, the Committee on Education and the Workforce heard testimony concerning education programs and state legislation designed to curb the use and manufacture of methamphetamine with pseudoephedrine-containing products.

The House passed the Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act of 2005 ("CMEA") as an amendment to the renewal of the Patriot Act. It was signed into law by president George W. Bush on March 6, 2006.

There is a long list of requirements that all pharmacies must meet in order to sell pseudoephedrine, including photo ID required for its purchase.

Please note that this bill was passed by a Republican-controlled Congress and signed into law by the Republican President, George W. Bush.

So let's not use this as an example of Democrats making it necessary to purchase "cold medicine" with a picture ID.

Photo ID is required to purchase any medication that contains pseudoephedrine.
Why? Because the government wants record keeping to ensure that individuals are not buying more than the maximum allowed quantity of pseudoephedrine in a certain period of time. This came about because of widespread use of pseudoephedrine as a precursor drug used to make methamphetamine illegally in "meth labs".
Before this law was passed, the pharmacy I was working in would put out dozens of boxes of pseudoephedrine as soon as the shipment came in, and it would all be gone within 1/2 hour.
Meth labs were not only dangerous to the people making it, selling it, buying it and using it, but also a public hazard to the people who lived near these meth labs when they blew up.
Hope that helps clear it up for you.

Doyle has been fighting the voter ID bill ever since he got into office. Why? He passed a bill that requires people to show a photo ID to get cold medicine. Poor people and elderly people get colds.

ID Needed for Voter Registration
To register to vote, you are required to supply your Wisconsin department of transportation issued driver's license or ID card number…

To register to vote, you are required to supply your Wisconsin department of transportation issued driver's license or ID card number. If you have not been issued a Wisconsin driver's license or ID, you must provide the last 4 digits of your Social Security number or your Wisconsin state ID card number. Alternately, you may indicate that you have not been issued a Wisconsin driver's license, ID, or Social Security number. Your registration cannot be processed until you provide this information.

If you are a first time voter, you must provide a copy of acceptable ID documentation when submitting your registration application by mail. You may not use a residential lease as proof of residence. If a copy of proof of residence is not included, you will be required to supply it before being issued a ballot at the polling place or before being issued an absentee ballot at the municipal clerk's office.

The following constitute acceptable proof of residence (must contain your current and complete name, including both the given and family name and a current and complete residential address, including a numbered street address, if any, and the name of a municipality):

A current and valid Wisconsin driver's license
A current and valid Wisconsin ID card
Any other official identification card or license issued by a Wisconsin governmental body or unit
Any ID card issued by an employer in the normal course of business and bearing a photo of the card holder, but not including a business card
A real estate tax bill or receipt for the current year or the year preceding the date of the election
A residential lease which is effective for a period that includes Election Day (this will not be sufficient for first time voters registering by mail)
A university, college or technical institute fee card (must include photo)
A university, college or technical institute identification card (must include photo)
A utility bill (gas, electric or telephone service) for the period commencing no earlier than 90 days before Election Day
Bank statement
Paycheck
A check or other document issued by a unit of government
ID Needed for Voting

coffeeman:

I prefer to avoid absolutes; I haven’t asserted that all democrats commit fraud, or that no republicans do. I’ve said the preponderance of voter fraud comes from democrats, and virtually all those who oppose voter ID are democrats. To back my statement I gave a nice list of documented examples of democrats perpetuating voter fraud. I have thrown the gauntlet. In response there’s been a lot of indignation, colourful sentiment, and empty rhetoric, but so far nobody has provided:
.
- A set of documented cases of republican voter fraud.
- A list of prominent republicans who are against voter ID.
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I don’t assume anything; I made a case and provided evidence to support it. Perhaps you’ll be the first to prove me wrong, just present your facts.

http://www.vote411.org/
Everything you wanted to know but were afraid to ask....

It seems that Northman is set on saying only Democrats committ voter fraud. I have one question for you: How many states require you to declare your party affiliation when you vote? Some states require you to yell out your party affiliation. When I walk into the polling place, NO ONE knows if I am a Democrat or Republican. I am a Democrat and I am all for voter ID's. So not all Democrats are against this. You seem to assume too much.

I heard somewhere there is a discount price for the Wisconsin Id for those on welfare.
It wouldn't be the standard $28.

All that may be true, but how does one survive in 2008 without ID?
How do you drive, fly, cash a check, leave the country, get a job,get married or even buy beer at walmart??
All you need is a birth certicate, drivers license some form of ID.
Just one form is the Wisconsin ID.
As far as those that are disabled, there are services to get them to important appointments via the Red Cross or Salavation Army,etc.
It's 2008!

The fee for the original ID card has gone up from about $5 less than 10 years ago to $28. Granted it is for 8 years instead of 4, but still, for someone who is poor, $28 is a lot of money for something that they don't use very often.

http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/drivers/dri...

Also, it is difficult for people in Rock County to understand, because we have the DMV and bus lines in Beloit and Janesville; however, when you think about the rural communities up north, it is difficult and costly to get to the nearest DMV. Think about what a cab would cost. If they even have a reliable enough car to go out of town, the gas costs are difficult to come up with...I don't think anyone thinks proof of who you are is the issue, it's getting the ONLY form of ID that will be accepted in order to vote, that people are objecting to and trying to figure out a reasonable alternative to ensure legal voting...

Whatdidyousay, your comment is true about SOME people, I agree totally. ("The same people who will say they can't afford it, will be the same people buying lottery tickets, buying pet food, cigarettes and all the other "necessities" they need.") Unfortunately, there are many people who take advantage of things, but I don't think it's fair to include everyone who receives assistance in this country or this state, this county, or even this city to be judged so harshly. I know MANY people who are just trying to keep food in their children's mouths and a roof over their heads who do not abuse the system...and trying to improve their situations.

Gore did NOT stop the votes from being counted, Bush did. how dare you bring up three homeless people and try to use that as a point. poitless if you ask me. the court decided who our president would be. most of which were appointed by Bush Sr. what a freakin joke to try to blame democrats when the republicans hands are so dirty they can't even wash them clean anymore.

I take great offense to the stereotypes that are being thrown around here. I am a voter. I am a democrat. I vote to uphold the law and I support voter ID. I also know that there are shady republicans and shady democrats and shady independents. And I think the lobbyists have their eyes (and hands?) in the election results more than anyone else. This is not a party conflict. This is an issue where the people who "have" don't necessarily understand the life of the "have nots" and do not care that their voices aren't heard on election day.

To reiterate: I support voter ID, so each person who is eligible to vote gets a chance to. and I'm a democrat. who'd of thunk it?

whatdidyousay:
The problem is you won't be able to go out on the streets of Milwaukee and give homeless people cigarettes in exchange for voting Gore!
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2000/12...

Oh yes, the republicans, the upholders of morality and family values in America.
I am posting a link of lots of republicans who preach one thing, yet do another:

http://www.armchairsubversive.org/

I would list them here, but the list is too long.

This site was chosen from several that had the same list of names on it, to be fair.

So I can speculate and do so in broad terms, that republicans are two-faced liars who tend to molest children and cheat on their wives.

My point here is the vast majority of democrats do not favor voter fraud, and the vast majority of republicans are not sexual deviants, so let's not make stereotypes of either party.

So far, we’ve had several claims that both parties equally support/oppose Voter ID, with no substantiation. And several claims that both parties are equally guilty of voter fraud, with only my substantiation of broad democratic fraud. So unless someone provides some evidence to the contrary, let’s take as given that:
- Democrats oppose Voter ID.
- Democrats are the primary practitioners of voter fraud.
.
That brings us to etowntomilton’s rather perceptive question, why do the democrats oppose voter ID? Abbypie’s answer scratches the surface, but leads to the obvious follow-up question: why do democrats condone voter fraud?
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I can only speculate, and I’ll do so in broad terms. In general, the democrats embrace fringe constituencies, while republicans are more mainstream. Think of a group that bends or breaks the law to achieve their means, and that group is probably liberal and democrat. There are exceptions, to be sure. Right wingers who bomb abortion clinics are a horrifying example. But most of them are lefties. The groups who advocate moral relativism, they are all democrats. The people who see the world in terms of right and wrong, who are law and order proponents, they tend to be republicans. Again, we’re talking broad terms here; please don’t give me a shotgun blast of isolated examples to the contrary. But given the democrats, who have a preponderance of constituents who see the law as advisory or malleable, and the republicans, who see the law as a thing to uphold: which group is more likely to think of voter fraud as a legitimate means to an end? Easy answer, the dems.
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I don’t know if that qualifies as a Bill O’Reilly rant, since to my mind it isn’t a rant at all. But I’m curious to see if anyone can refute it with a well-reasoned, logical argument. If the replies tend to be emotional rather than factual, or ad hominem attacks, we’ll know the posters are democrats!

Easy voter fraud

Nobody is answering this....

WHY are the Democrats against this? What is the reasoning?

thekai's history is a bit fuzzy. Tammany Hall ran New York City politics from before the civil war until the years of the Depression, and they were democrat. New York is, and was, well know as the mafia headquarters of the country.
New York has had 6 republican mayors since 1860, 2 in the 1800’s, both single 2 year terms, and 4 since then with the last being R. Guiliani.
Boston has had 3 republican Mayors since 1857 and none since 1930.
Chicago has had 3 republican mayors since 1897 and none since 1931
Milwaukee has had 8 republican mayors in total, all serving a single 2 year term and none since 1908
The Mafia first formed in New Orleans in the 1850's, a democratic city in the south. The Mafiosi thrived in New Orleans and, later in New York, spreading out from there during the early 1900’s.
The main source of corruption in the 1800’s was political bosses, not mafia bosses, and while the mafia bosses profited from that corruption into the 20th century, it was the politically corrupt that enabled the mafia and they were mostly democrats on the local level.

"I can easily picture Northman having Bill O'Reilly rants daily"

When you don't have an argument throw out a personal attack?

I saw somthing very close to that on news.
About how some young people came to a nursing home and "helped" the residents vote.
Didn't matter that some of the residents were comotose.

I got one for you. My step brothers mother was living in a retirement home. The democratic party in 2004 out of the goodness of their hearts came to the home and offered the residents a day of bingo. After bingo was done the residents were given ballots and a form to sign up to register to vote. Well, as you may well know that some of the people in these facilities can't read real good. But, out of the goodness of their hearts they would fill out the ballots for the residents no questions asked. My step brothers mother had some trouble with her pen not working and a caring person from the democratic party came to help her and pointed to Kerry on the ballot and told her to fill in the ballot. She still had some wit to her and still had her facilities and told the person "when hell freezes over I'll never vote for that clown". Just wonder how many residents voted for Kerry that day of "Bingo".

thekai,
Was this you?
And in another case, it looks as if an entire neighborhood will be out of town on Election Day. Everyone there applied for absentee ballots.

This fraud comes on the heels of a report NewsChannel5 did just Wednesday on identity theft and voter registration.

Northman:
See the film Hacking Democracy. Both democrat and republican candidates were shown to be getting screwed by election fraud (which is different than voter fraud, I know).

A piece of interesting information that I learned recently that I think relates to this. The whole drivers license/state ID/universal identification card thing currently rests on the back of a birth certificate. Unfortunately, there are no uniform laws regarding birth certificates. So our supposedy legit piece of identification could result from a non-legitimate piece of information.

A state representative has been asking the Milwaukee Election Commission for information on the number of votes cast by voters who voted and registered on the same day (Wisconsin Law allows voters to register at the polls the day of the election). By law all same day registers are to be validated by mail immediately after the election (Their votes get counted regardless of their status).

Rep. [Jeff] Stone finally received an answer Monday of [last] week. He was told that there were 8,300 same day votes and approximately 900 were unable to be delivered. Assuming about one third of the same day votes will not be verified because there is no such address, etc., that would mean approximately 2400 illegal votes were cast. Sounds bad! Well…..

Rep. Stone today received a call from the Election Commission. They were a little bit off. They actually had 73,000 same day votes cast. 10,000 voter registration cards could not be sent because they have no addresses or incomplete or inadequate information. Using the same one third return rate that means in Milwaukee alone more than 25,000 illegal votes were cast. You can expect that the cities of Racine, Kenosha and Madison to have similar results.

By the way George Bush lost Wisconsin by 12,000 votes and Milwaukee votes 80% or more Democrat.

Abbypie,
My only reaction to your post can be what you want to hear. I, as a registered Democrat, know something that you don't. We hold secret meetings and right under your very watch we bribe people for their votes. We get hired at fast food restaurants and department stores and offer people special discounts to get their votes. We work at gas stations and give out free gas vouchers. We pretend to be Kirby salesmen and women and go door to door, with the real intent to get votes. If a photo ID were to be required, then all of our efforts would be spoiled and the tipping majority of our votes wouldn't be able to be cast any more. This is why we have all united to try to stop voter ID laws. This is why we are so strong about the issue. We don't care about people, we just want their votes to go for our party. You Republicans are really onto us this time, and it's a huge threat to our voter turnout... y'know, because only people who won't be able to get a photo ID would vote for a Democrat.

thekai:

It appears we’re getting updates here faster than I can type. “There you have it”? Have what? I gave 8 documented examples of democratic voter fraud, with sources. I can give more if needed. If you want to show the republicans are just as bad, then give document some cases. If you’re referring to the post about registration at an International Fest, I’d bet the registration was done by the dems, they are more likely to be found at a “celebrate diversity” event like that.

The problem with the mafia bosses stretched into the twentieth century. The Civil War was used as a reference point to remind anyone of how strongly Republican the Northern states were at the time.

The point wasn't that one party or other is doing fraud, persay.
The point was made which party doesn't want voter ID?
WHY?

thekai:

I don’t think we’re too far off the same point, but I must say, it’s a real biiiiig stretch to dig back to the 1860s to prove that the republicans are no angels. You could go to the same era and prove that the democrats are intractable racists. Things have changed a little in the past century and a half.
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I don’t have on rose-colored glasses here, neither party is perfect. But it’s well documented that when it comes to voter fraud, the dems are the bad guys. And when it comes to opposing voter ID, again it’s all the dems.
.
And yes, I used absentee ballots to vote my entire military career, I am very familiar with them.

I have been registered to vote since 1972.
Last year both my husband and I decided we would use the absentee ballot option.
You have to still follow the law whether you vote in person or absentee.

Northman,
It seems that my post came out at just the right time for you. There you have it. Republicans know how to get down and dirty... they are no saints. Face it, voter fraud happens on both sides, and not more on one side than the other.

I was at an International fest a few years ago.
They had a voter registration table where young people were registering Hispanic people to vote. I watched for awhile.
It was quite obvious the people couldn't understand a word of english. The young person at the table said "no problem I'll fill it out for you". The kid never asked another question, but fill out the registration.
Sure that was on the level........

Northman,

In the years following the end of the civil war, Democrats had a very hard time coming into office (of course). In the Northern states, which were mostly Republican at the time, corruption ran rampant through the cities. Mafia bosses would bribe voters with food, alcohol, cigarettes, personal favors, and sometimes money, in order to get them to vote for certain politicians. These politicians would then in turn collaborate with the mafia bosses and tax citizens on several "public works" projects, and most of the money would go right back to the mafia bosses. This problem, as I already stated, was widespread throughout the Republican north. Those same Republicans and Mafia bosses would also go through local grave yards and bring the dead back to life, on election day. All of this was well documented.
°
You are naiive to think that Republicans are holy and all that is right, and Democrats are the devil and the very cause of corruption themselves.
°
I am well aware of absentee ballots. I spent two years over seas and right now I'm in California. Have you ever cast an absentee ballot? I do have to wonder, though, how a photo ID law would pertain to someone who is casting an absentee ballot.
°
It should be the State's responsibility to ensure that anyone who is unable to obtain a photo ID by reasonable means is still issued a photo ID or substitute which works just the same.
°
The photo ID law does not favor any single party, either. While statistics show that Democrats normally try to get the votes of minorities, statistics also show that Hispanics, with their strong Catholic background, are normally more inclined to vote for Republicans. That being said, I think we can all agree that most illegal immigrants in this country are Hispanic.

What we are talking about are excuses and scare tactics.
There is no reason why we shouldn't have voter ID. Why would anyone not want it unless fraud was involved?
One man, one vote!
This is 2008 we have to have ID for everything.

m_s_w:

If you have followed the news over the past few decades, you’ll see several states reporting voter fraud for major elections. I have never – ever – ever – seen that fraud tied to the republican party. It always ties to the democrats. Here are some examples. If you have examples of republican fraud, feel free to share them:
.
Over-Voting. In Democrat strongholds like St. Louis, Philadelphia and Detroit, some precincts had 100% of their registered voters voting, with 99% of the ballots going to Gore. Clearly, multiple voting resulted in extra tallies for Gore in the 2000 election. (New York Post, 12/09/00).
.
Dead Voters. This classic Democratic method of vote fraud goes all the way back to 1960 in Chicago and Dallas. The 2000 election was no exception. In Miami-Dade County, for example, some of the 144 ineligible votes (those which officials actually admitted to) were cast by dead people, including a Haitian-American who's been deceased since 1977 (Miami-Herald, 12/24/00).
.
Mystery Voters. These "voters" cast votes anyway but are not even registered to vote. In heavily Democratic Broward County, for example, more than 400 ballots were cast by non-registered voters. (Miami-Herald 1/09/01)
.
Military ballots. Many of these votes were disqualified for the most mundane and trivial reasons. At least 1,527 valid military ballots were discarded in Florida by Democratic vote counters (Drudge Report, 11/19/00).
.
Criminals. Felons are a natural Democratic voter and they're protected on voter rolls across the country. In Florida at least 445 ex-convicts - including rapists and murderers -- voted illegally on November 7th. Nearly all of them were registered Democrats. (Miami-Herald 12/01/00)
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Illegal aliens. These voters have long been a core liberal constituency, especially in California. In Orange County in 1996, Rep. Bob Dornan had his congressional seat stolen from him when thousands of illegal aliens voted for Loretta Sanchez (Christian Science Monitor, 9/2/97).
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Vote-buying. Purchasing votes has long been a traditional scheme by Democrats, and not just with money. In the 2000 election in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Democratic workers initiate a "smokes-for-votes" campaign in which they paid dozens of homeless men with cigarettes if they cast ballots for Al Gore (Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, 11/14/00).
.
We can do the same drill for “who said only democrats are the only one's opposed to voter ID”, but this time you do the leg work. What republicans have come out against it?

there are, of course, the criminals who have an agenda that they will go to any length to achieve fulfilling. those folks know no party boundary and cross all economic and social boundaries as well.

as a "group" however, it's unfair and quite simply wrong to include all democrats in your argument.

northman, who said only democrats are the only one's opposed to voter ID? and where did you get your information that democrats are responsible for voter fraud? seems to me that democrats are all in favor of FAIR and ACCESSIBLE voting, just as republicans and independent parties.

As I said, this is NOT a partisan issue, this is a DEMOCRACY issue. Democracy: government by the people; especially : rule of the majority and a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections

proartist:

Try to focus here, the issue is voter fraud. The Nixon “dirty tricks” crew was about smearing political enemies, not fraud at the polling place. I know Karl Rove is every liberal’s favourite kicking boy, but I’m not aware of any documented instances where he went around buying votes, giving out cigarettes for votes, buying drinks for votes, driving people around to multiple polling places to vote, encouraging non-citizens to vote, etc. All these strategies are documented, however, on the democrat’s side. As for the Florida fiasco, spare me. “Bush lied, the chad died!!” Voting is a right, but if you are too stupid to figure out a punch card, then don’t expect your vote to count. Bringing in a bunch of psychics to look at dents in punch cards, trying to ascertain the “voter’s intent”, is no basis for a system of government.
.
If it’s not partisan, then why is it that only the democrats seem to think that voter ID is a terrible thing?

Frankly, I don't buy the excuse that people can't afford an ID or get to the DMV to get one, if that were the case most would be dead because they wouldn't be able to afford food or get to the store to get any. I think that they are just worried that if they get an ID they actually have to use their real name and be held responsible for their actions and maybe those warrants that are out there.

that's funny tjncj

Lets take the camera to the car as well so we can get the picture on the ID.

In addition to absentee ballots: Having worked at the polls many times, I can verify that polling places will assist disabled voters who have come but, for whatever reason, cannot enter the polling place. Upon request, the poll workers can legally bring the ballots to your vehicle so you can cast your vote.

excuses?

Have you ever heard of an absentee ballot?
You may vote by absentee ballot if you:

will be absent from your city or town on election day, and/or
have a physical disability that prevents your voting at the polling place, and/or
cannot vote at the polls due to religious beliefs.
Enough with the excuses!

ADA only affects "new" buildings and when renovations are made to existing buildings. Many of the schools and government buildings are old and are inaccessible.

I know that many renovations to local schools are in process, but there are many buildings in the outlying communities that have issues with accommodations. But I know this has nothing to do with voting with an ID, either. My apologies for getting off topic...

It's against the law not to have a building that isn't acessable to those with disabilities. Where do you live?
Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA)

The ADA prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability in employment, State and local government, public accommodations, commercial facilities, transportation, and telecommunications. It also applies to the United States Congress.

ADA

nowind, yikes!

change does not always equal progress! who decides these things?!

"Many locations require climbing and descending steps, etc"

My Local country polling place used to have drive up capabilities for those that could not navigate the stairs. This was replaced with a 40' ramp. What was more convienent, Drive up or 40' uphill walk?

thank you proartist! I was biting my "fingers" (read: tongue) to avoid bringing in the republican party's bad politics...

as a whole, I think the people want elections to be fair, accessible and as convenient as possible. Everyone is not going to be happy with all decisions, obviously...

In most cities, public transportation is available to access polling locations as well as DMV locations. Indigent folks could have transportation and ID fees made available to them, as their vote should be counted as much as mine and yours (regardless of which political party one considers themselves to associate with). I stand by my opinion that voting is an important privilege and right of ALL citizens of the US.

On another note, and as long as driving to the polls was brought up, what about making the polling places accessible to folks with physical disabilities? Many locations require climbing and descending steps, etc...take a look at your polling location when you vote in November, and imagine yourself with a physical disability. Would you be able to navigate it? just a thought.

"old people don't drive and neither do the poor. how do you suggest they get there ID.?"

The Same way they get everything else, Bus Friends, Relatives, Bike, Walk. We just need to make sure there are places other than the DMV to get your ID. Heck, you can get a passport at many Post offices. If you can't get out to get the ID then how do you get out to Vote. Are you saying these people only get out of there houses on voting day. If as a citizen you don't take the time to get an ID I don't beleive you will actualy be taking the time to vote.

old people don't drive and neither do the poor. how do you suggest they get there ID.? republicans are in office and there was no ID. required to put them there, so why now ? you say that only the democrats don't want this, where did you get that poll from ? voter fraud is a crime and just because a few people did it should not harm the masses for someone else's crime.

Northman: Which party has consistently, across the nation, engaged in voter fraud? How quickly the citizenry forget GOP "dirty tricks" of the Nixon White House; the legacy of Karl Rove (who is STILL at work); the hanging chads in Florida when Jeb was Governor; politically-beholding court judges and other appointees; and many more instances. No one can lay total blame on partisan politics and/or election fraud on either political party. It's part of the "game" since the electorate who continually complain at election time don't seem to have the courage and energy to actually DO something, get involved and actively work to change the system. It's absolutely time for public campaign financing with limited campaign "seasons" (as in the UK where the insane expenditures of monies are only for 3-month active campaigning) and rock-solid paper-trail voting for accountability.

When all of one party is for something, and all of the other party is against it, then by definition it is a partisan issue. You may not agree with your party’s stance, but it is still partisan.
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I fully agree with providing free photo IDs for anyone who qualifies and needs one. That’s what they started doing in Indiana, and I haven’t heard of any problems. If I didn’t have a photo ID, I would absolutely find a way to get in and get one for free if I could. It would be useful for many things besides voting.

This is not a partisan issue. This is an issue about making the voting process as convenient, yet accurate, as possible.

I'm in favor of the state ID proposal. I also would support using state funds to assist indigent residents to get a state ID (once per qualifying renewal period of the ID) if their income falls below poverty guidelines.

Voting is a right for all "Citizens"
Prove you are a citizen. Showing an Electric bill does not show you are a Citizen. A Government issued ID Card does, I Don't know if a green card would work.

Why is only one party against voter registration? Let’s take a look at voter fraud over the last 20 years or so. It’s not enough to look at a single area, no matter how large the location or grievous the problem (think of Chicago’s “vote early and often” mantra). Look broad-based, look for trends.
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Which party has consistently, across the nation, engaged in voter fraud? The democrats.
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Which party has officials who have made public statements that illegal aliens, i.e. non-citizens, should turn out and vote? The democrats.
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Voter ID is not about disenfranchising the poor, or any minority group. It’s about ensuring the integrity of the voting process, so that when the votes are tallied, you can be confident that the right woman or man had won. You have the right to vote. That does not mean the government has an obligation to hold your hand and make the process painless. Voting for many used to mean spending half a day or more on horseback, so getting a photo ID is hardly onerous.

We passed a law to require a person to show photo ID to get cold medicine. Doyle signed it into law. He's against the voter ID bill. Why? He says it would disenfranchise the poor and the seniors. Well, wouldn't his signing of the bill that requires people to show a photo ID to get cold medicine disenfranchising the same people? If not more people? The voter turnout for registered voters usually is around 60%. The voter ID bill will not disenfranchise people as Doyle would like you to think. Everyone should be allowed to have their vote counted honestly. The dems seem to be holding back because they rely on corruption in order to get elected. Their argument doesn't hold water.

and by the way, felons are citizens too. not to mention all the people with WRONG convictions.

if you live here you can vote and a thousand uninformed comments will not change my mind on that. not that they will count your vote anyways. Bush got the vote stopped and then took the office. you see, republicans want you to have an ID. so the poor and the immigrants who all vote democrat will not be able to vote. same old same old.

As I've said, I agree that it's a good thing, I just don't think it's the best possible solution. Voting is a right for all citizens, as has been stated... so from that view point, no legitimate citizen should be prevented from voting (some exceptions, such as convicted felons are of course excluded). The state can require a photo ID to vote, but I think they should also ensure that no one will be disfranchised by doing so. Again, perhaps a photo ID, or (solution) would be more reasonable. I'm not opposed to requiring a photo ID. I'm opposed to disfranchising voters.

I am always amazed when I vote all I need to do is gve my name and address and they give me a ballot. What stops anyone from looking in a phone book and voting all over town? My sister in law went to vote (not in Janesville) at the last election and they told her she already had voted, so it does happen.

Citizenship has its responsibilities. Defend your country, jury duty, pay your taxes, vote, to name a few. All of these are burdens in some way or another. As the Supreme Court said, photo I.D.'s do not constitute an undue burden. To submit to I.D. requirements need not be effortless, just as every other duty is not without effort or cost.

And it seems that there is only one party that's AGAINST the ID laws. Why is THAT?
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And c'mon, to call this Jim Crow, etc, is just the typical knee-jerk reaction that gets in the way of serious discussion of public issues today. Yes, these proposals are designed to prevent some people from voting: those who are doing so illegally. Period.

If by agenda you mean helping people have an ID so they can be part of society. If you are living without an ID you most likely don't have a bank acount, can't own property, can not get any credit. Basicly you are living below the radar. Im not even sure you can get a legal job. If you are working under the radar, then you are not paying income taxes or SS taxes. If you are not paying Social Security taxes, then you will not be recieving Social Security when you get older.
It is all connected.
By the way. Most likely if you are living at this level of society, you know how to use the Welfare system, And Im sure you can keep more of that check if you cash it with an ID

Voting is not only a right, but it is a privilege.
Many have given their very lives for said privilege.
If the American voter can't invest an hour of their life to go get proper ID, how can we assume they have invested enough time in really knowing who they are voting for?
Are people that have to show ID to fly or cash their check disfranshied?
Welcome to 2008!!!

It seems to me that there's only one party in favor of the ID laws. Why is that? At least on one side of the argument there is a willingness to a fair compromise. Is a compromise really that threatening to the agenda?

So what's the problem, you can't do anything these days without an ID.
From buying beer at Walmart, flying, cashing a check and winning at Oneida.
The DMV has photo ID's for those that don't drive at little cost.
It seems it's only one party that has a problem with voter ID. Why is that?

Let's vote at the jail.
No one seems to have a problem getting there to visit...or otherwise.

Well the courthouse and DMV must both be so conveniently located then. Let's just have voting at those two locations, they are obviously centrally located enough to support that.

If they can't get to the dmv, or where ever photo I.D.'s would be available (city hall for instance), what makes you think they can get to the polls?

Just lay down a thumbprint.

That would help, but there is still the problem of those getting to a place where they can get a photo taken. The DMV alone takes a lot of time, and people need transportation to get there as well.

Couldn't a free I.D. for those without a driver's license be part of the law?

And what about people who are too poor to get a state photo ID? Is the government going to provide an ID for them, and transportation? I agree that something needs to be done, but I don't know if this is the answer. Why not require a photo ID, OR (solution). It might end up costing the state a little money in order to ensure those who can not get a photo ID are still able to vote... but, voting is very important after all. Just because someone is unable to get a photo ID themselves does not mean they should not be allowed to vote at all.