Seems the City doesn't promote upgrading your home. It's like they are sneaking around waiting to get more money from you if you try to make your house nicer for your family. If you do, you will basically be fined and receive a tax increase - so many people do nothing - not even routine upkeep - new siding, windows, etc. Others don't tell. It costs a lot to do upgrades to begin with, then you have to take into consideration the City's portion of increased taxes. I am staying in my small house.

People should know by now they can get something done or prevent something from being done by intelligently pressuring the city council. When there was a petition effort to convert to the mayoral system in Janesville, the electorate overwhelming rejected that referendum. For over twenty years, the electorate has voted in the city manger/council form of government by voting in twenty-nine council members who maintained that system. As a matter of fact, this has been going on since the 1920s when the mayoral system was dumped for the present system. That choice by the Janesville electorate turned Janesville into an outstanding city.

Nothing bad has been going on in Janesville that would have automatically been prevented by the mayoral system. Instead of thinking that changing the system is the solution, the system in place should be used properly.

So.. Its nice to know where Steebers stands on these issues come re-election.

gazettereader69 The only way to be sure in your mind is to let them in your house. Then if you don't like your assessment you can go to open book and see what they have listed for your house if you still not happy with it you can go to the Board of Review then to Court

Every one call Mr. Steeber and let him know how you feel about his Brain Child Plan.

So what would stop them from raising anyones value very high just to get back at them for not giving access. We know this coding department is sometimes scarey with their decissions

gazettereader69 Maybe not that much, but yes. Remember they raise your assessment not your taxes. The two don't always go hand in hand. See
RichE95's comment below.

If you refuse to allow them to enter can they raise your taxes outrageously say 50-100% and leave you with no room to complain?

RichE95 as far as the assessment goes you hit the nail on the head.

I have sat on a board of review and this is how it was explained to us. You do not have to let the assessor on your property. You can let them walk around your house or make them stay on the sidewalk. In either case they will guess at what’s inside your house. They could say you have a swimming pool, hot tub, finished basement, fireplace or whatever. In most cases by not letting the assessor in your house you give up the right to object to your assessment.

Call city hall tomorrow and tell them a light bulb is burnt out ask them if you need a permit .

Question: If I hired a professional to do work in my home, do they get the needed permits or should I be doing that? I guess I assumed that professionals took care of this, but since no one came out to inspect, maybe they didn't?
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I think some education on this topic would be helpful...maybe a section in the city newsletter. I would be more than willing to get permits when needed, but don't know all the specifics. When my furnace quit and it was the middle of winter, the last thing on my mind was "Do I need a permit?" I just needed a furnace ASAP!

hannah - If the inspector finds a problem of any sort, the seller can then either offer to fix it, or reduce the price, or decline to do anything. The buyer can then pull out if not satisfied with the response. That provides the buyer with a loophole you can drive a truck through - and that is not wrong. Thus my comment to avoid inspectors recommended by a real estate agent.

Don't look for a revaluation to have a great bearing on your property tax. The assessed valuation is rather unimportant in the scheme of things. Two things really count: 1. Are you assessed fairly when compared to other like properties? 2. How much does government receiving property tax at all levels choose to spend? Those are the important issues. They could assess your property at half it's fair market value and tell you it was full market value. You would then feel really really good - until you got the tax bill.

Hey what value are they going to use looks like property is going down in value from current economic conditions are they going to LOWER your taxes too

Its very simple people DO NOT LET THEM IN, yoiu do not have to allow these people access to your home. Just say no thank you. Thats all you have to do. They pray on people by acting like you have No choice that is not the case. You do not have to comply with them.

Home inspections when buying a house is another case of buyer beware. Most home inspections are referrals from realtors. They are a worthless investment for the buyer. They are not going to bust the deal for the realtor who recommended them. A home inspection is a good idea but you MUST find your own outside the sales process. You may pay more but at least there will be an objective job done.

Yes, if you finished off your basement since the last valuation, with or without a permit, the revaluation process will increase the value of your home, and likely your taxes. That process hasn't changed, and hasn't been done for the entire city since 1998. This shouldn't be a surprise to homeowners.

What Russ Steeber wants to do is also fine you if the revaluation inspection finds that you finished off your basement without a permit. That's new, and as some of the council members and city staff point out, would be difficult to prove in some cases or apply fairly to everyone. I don't think this is going very far.

Walker, you need to reread the first sentance of the article.

There's an easy solution for the homeowner who might have done some upgrades without a permit, and who may or may not have intentionally avoided the permit process. Deny access. It's your right. The city will have a much more accurate assessment if access can be gained to most properties, but no one in their right mind is going to allow access if they fear they will be fined! I can't believe anyone would think otherwise. Let's get a little more creative and realistic about how to handle this. Ideas?

I don't get the impression from the story that the city is looking to see if you had a permit for doing work in your house to fix things, but is looking for changes you did that reflect a higher property value. Things that do require a permit like finishing off your basement, adding a deck or extra garage. All these should make your property more value= you should pay higher property taxes on your home.

I know several people who over the last few years have totally finished off their basements to have extra bedrooms, bathrooms, family rooms and kitchenettes. Work they did themselves. Improvements the city doesn't know about. These additional rooms have increased the value of the homes. The homeowners know it, but are not going to allow an inspection and increase what they pay in property taxes.

Okay, just so that I understand this correctly. I buy a home that has had several prior owners. They make imporvements over the years, some had permits and others didn't. Now, the city wants to come in, tear things up, inspect the work from the past couple of decades and owners and then penalize me for it? How is that right?

An inspection versus a re-evaluation. I am doing some research on it. The ispection part of the re-evaluation would be very intrusive. The more intrusive the government is the more they need to justify it...ie search warrant, subpeona...etc.

The city counsel wants to hurry up and re-evaluate our property values before the GM workers dispensation runs out and we become the next Flint Michigan! Wake up people! They will over value the heck out of all of our properties, and claim fair market value. But when 2300 homes go up for sale in the next three years, good luck selling it, you will only get 80% of the overinflated value...Oh yeah, higher property taxes will make us just that much more unattractive to potential factories and companies looking to relocate to Janesville...

I am torn on this issue, as well. I always believed that a permit is in place to ensure that the work is done by a person qualified to do the work safely, by following up with an inspection. Plumbing, electrical, HVAC does require sufficient knowledge in order to not harm existing structure, protect the air and water and neigboring homes.

I know MANY contractors though, that have friends who exchange work. (ie: I'll have you come over and update my electrical work in exchange for my updating your plumbing...) In these instances, I don't believe the city needs to be involved.

It's interesting how many people think they can do their own work, though, by reading the latest copy of "Do It Yourself" without taking into consideration the damage that can be done if not done correctly.

Or to "flip" a house and make as much as they can by making a home aesthetically appealing, yet functionally shoddy. Not to mention being unsafe and dangerous to a gullible/uninformed home buyer and their family.

My concern is the coding departments need to tear out walls, ceilings etc. To check for the quality of work. I can't afford the repairs in the first place then to have them torn out so I can redo them again. No one seems to address this end of the problem. The coding department has a horrible reputation as is - now they want to destroy what we repaired.

start by checking Steeber's house. I am sure he has had a permit for everything he has done.........

Quote:Steeber asked if homeowners could be taken to task if the city finds work that was done without needed building permits.

If a person isn’t fined, he wondered what the incentive is to do things the right way.End quote

THAT is the entire point on contention IMO. What is the "Right way?" For a struggling family with a strong back and some ingenuity, the right way is to do it yourself. For a homeowner with plenty of dough (and this demographic is plummeting) it is to pay a professional.

However, for some, the "right way" is to not improve the property, trash it, and not pay higher taxes.

So what the article is really focusing on, is it proper to fine citizens for not doing home repairs for what an elite population defines as "the right way?"

What are they going to do, track all purchases at the janesville Home Depot? Plant an RFID chip under the skin of all who check out a home improvement book at Hedberg?

Why don't we all just let our homes go to pot without any improvements, then maybe our taxes will go down. You try to upkeep your home and you get charged for it! Unbelievable. Higher taxes for this, higher taxes for that. When does it end! I wish my pay would keep going up like everything else. Can anyone tell me where there is a tree that grows money?

localboy - You make some good points as do others. I don't want to associate myself in anyway with the Briarmoon faction which is fringe. However, there was positive change when citizens objected to the process last time. From what I read and saw, the result was some procedural changes which resulted in a more objective valuation. Yes, it is sensitive and the city is in a spot. But that is not all bad in a democracy. We are very sensitive to property taxes since we have to write a check. That does create citizen involvement which is good. It is far better than the apathy that allowed the county to enact a sales tax. A sales tax is the most regressive tax on lower income people yet they pay it without objection. People bought into an illusion that somehow the mysterious "they" will pay some of our tax obligation with a sales tax. Another illusion is that lower tax states somehow have poorer public services and schools. Having lived elsewhere for a while, I assure you that is not necessarily true. Sorry for digressing to the "big picture".

RichE95 - good enough. Your point has merit. The system could use some help, but people are using the timing of the reevaluation to damn the city, when the city is only following the law. If anything, the city has gone to great length (and now expense) to appease the vocal minority, and are trying to improve the process, while following the law. This all has to be paid, by the same taxes that people are trying to avoid paying. That leaves us law abiding citzens left to pick up the slack, by carrying those opposed to paying their share. It is kind of a sensitive subject.

localboy - I should have added a comment that I disagree with your statement that this wasn't a proper format for my complaint. I wasn't making a formal complaint against anyone at this late date and was not expecting any corrective action. It is a very appropriate and proper forum for a discussion on what works well with government and what does not work well. The whole basis of the discussion is an assumption by a City Council member that we need tougher enforcement of a government practice that many folks feel does not work well.

The event was a few years ago and as indicated I no longer own the house. I had the problems (plumbing, structual) fixed on my own. The repairs were fine and didn't require a permit since they were not upgrades. I accept responsibility for not watching closer and expecting government procedures to assure the work was done right. There was no recourse with the builder since they were understandably out of the business.

RichE95 - if you really had poor work completed, this post is not the forum to voice your concerns. If your story is true, please contact me (by clicking my post name) and I can help you get in contact with the appropriate government departments that will maybe resolve your issue. This extended offer is only good if you are truthful of your claim, and it was not only your opinion, but verifyable fact.

Did someone really suggest that our permit and inspection system has created safe and quality buildings? I would like to sell that person my former house which got all the right check marks and initials in the right box. Only problem - the work was poor and I failed to check it out myself. Government did nothing to protect me,

We sure have a lot of paranoid people in this town. I can't think of a generation that did more to reduce the moral fabric of society than the hippie generation. They have created a society of fear, mistrust, and rebellion. They thought they new what they were doing, but they were young and not clear to the ruin they would create. We are reaping those attributes now. That is why we have people running around in fear of letting in a property evaluator. Do your duty and pay your fair share. Most of you fear mongors will just get your free social programs cut in the long run, so maybe I don't care.

I suspect that anyone who believes the city will acknowledge the devaluation of real estate in the city in its upcoming reassessment, and the subsequent need for lower taxes and spending (which is anathema for government bodies) is in for a dose of reality. We'll have to sue, en masse, to force that on them.

It really doesn't matter what the building permit would cost, $1 or $100, there are still people in this city who ignore the laws and do what they damn well please. These people think that they dont have to follow the rules and that the rest of are chumps. Then the city is forced to take costly legal action against them to make them comply. (You know who I mean, dont you?)
Building codes are there for a reason: they set a minimum safety that we can rely upon. We can rely on an house to have proper wiring or sewerage when it's been inspected. The permit requirement is merely a way for a city to have notice of the houses, additions, etc., that are being built and to make them to comply with some really minimal requirements. I think tha's a good idea.
As I understand it, the suggestion of a fine for failing to get a permit for wiring, plumbing, additions, etc., was just that a suggestion, not even a proposal. More like thinking out loud.
I think fining a few scofflaws who think they know better is a good idea to deter other scofflaws, to assure the rest of us that the laws are being equally applied, and that our housing meets the minimum standards.

futurerichguy: I think the problem is using the revaluation process to also inspect homes for possible permit violations.

If all home values go down, won't the city just increase the property tax rate to meet the budgeted tax levy?

Wow Lt. Steeber first GM, Lear, LSI, et al. leave Janesville. Now Lt. Steeber wants to barge into our homes and start writing tickets to people that can't make their mortage. Typical cop. Let me ask did you come up with this idea all by yourself? Or do you have a pack of trained monkeys at your house?

We should all be welcoming a revaluation since our home values have dropped considerably and will drop even further by 2010. Simple home improvements are insignificant compared to the overall revaluation due to market factors. tjncj, your post has me LMAO!

Good observation RetiredAirForce. It reminds of how Illinois had to raise tolls so they could afford the cost of collecting tolls.

The theory behind the permit is sound; insure building standards are maintained and the structure is safe to use as a dwelling. The problem is politicians have decided to use the fees as a revenue source instead of their original intent---to cover the cost of the paperwork and the inspection staff ONLY.

The Janesville City Council = The #1 source for solutions to problems that don't exist.

As a city, is this what we should be worried about now?
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I agree that this suggestion hasn't been thought through. And the same can be said about a lot of the suggestions coming from the current city council members.
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Take heart though, having something brought up by the council seems to decrease the statistical odds of it actually occurring.

The continuing comments and attitudes by Mr Steeber are unfortunate. He seems intent on creating a feeling of anxiety and distrust at the very time we need the opposite. We have family members in law enforcement. I have seen a small minority of police officers who evolve into a feeling of suspicion towards everyone. That may be what has happened with him. Please do not hold it against the vast majority of officers.

It will be awful hard for an assessor to find that you have torn down a wall, replaced an outlet, or remodeled a basement if they don't come into your property. You are not "required" to let an assessor into your house. If they are not able to gain access, they simply must go off your properties "known features" from previous assessments.

Mr. Steeber's day job is as a lieutenant in the Rock County Sheriff's Dept. He's a bureaucrat. Bureaucrats think that way. He’s also a policeman. Policemen think that way too. Policemen assume we all hide something and bureaucrats view us as cash cows. So naturally Mr. Steeber is suspicious that we all have a pool and spa hidden somewhere and that in our hearts, we’re all tax evaders.
Permits really are only for the purpose of alerting the city that the property value has increased and for increased revenue since a permit must be purchased, the city doesn’t give them away. The building codes are just an excuse. A licensed workman must follow the code or he’s subject to lawsuits and license forfeiture. The city’s building inspector is not inspecting the quality of the work, just that the improvements made match the permit purchased. They’re not very good at their jobs either here in Janesville. My home’s previous owners had an addition put in 6 years ago which included a ½ bath in the basement. When the work was done an inspection was made and a reassessment calculated. 1 ½ years ago we bought the place. The city sent out an inspector 4 months later and “found” a full bath in the basement. This year a new assessment was calculated and I was sent notice thereof with an increase due to the full bath in the basement. I objected and went to a meeting with the assessor’s office. I was told that the bath in the basement must have been overlooked. I said that the inspector that came out last year made a mistake in seeing a full bath where there was only ½ a bath and therefore they probably was mistaken about missing the bath in their previous assessment.
The bottom line is that when they inspect and reassess, read it closely as they seem to be prone to errors.

I agree that there should be permits for remodeling, but instead of spending extra time and money giving fines to homeowners for past remodeling projects, how about sending every homeowner a complete list of what permits are needed for improvement projects. Also, if anyone is trying to sound credible in these blogs, try spelling the words right.

Hanna I concur

hannah
Nov 10, 2008 at 7:28 p.m.
Suggest removal localboy- i can read.

general list

http://www.ci.janesville.wi.us/citysite/......

switches and lighting fixtures yes only 75 cent fee BUT they want a permit!

http://www.ci.janesville.wi.us/citysite/......

ihavealife-here is your hvac
http://www.ci.janesville.wi.us/citysite/......

was wrong on the fixture- faucet
http://www.ci.janesville.wi.us/citysite/......

It would be a good idea for ALL homes in Janesville to be inspected IN SIDE AND OUT
and the tax accordingly .

I'll fling my rhetoric arrow when the local elected official makes a comment that relates the general population to inmates when it comes to conscious decision making on pulling permits.

Man you people really jump to conclusions. Upgrading a faucet will not need a permit. If you upgrade the plumbing in your house, add faucets, additional rooms with plumbing, that increases value to your house. Some of the ideas you people are coming up with are short of fear mongoring. Another reason permits are required, are for basic renovations that require some skill. This is for the safety of the public and homeowner. People have been known to do some really dumb and bad home improvements by themselves. Just talk to one of these inspectors, and I am sure that they can tell you some really good stories. Also, the State requires the city to do this evaluation. The city isn't "burning extra cash" for this, it is required by law that they do it. If some of you poor losers had not raised holy hell the last time it was done, we would not have had reason to hire an outside company. This action was due to the vocal minority that created a storm the last time it was done. You know who you people are. The timing is just coincedence that the GM plant is also closing. People, get the facts straight before you start firing off the arrows of rhetoric.

Mr. Steeber needs to ride along with these said inspectors and hand out fines. With a dismal economy the likely hood of his survival in politics is dismal as well. People remember this when reelection happens or petition to throw this moron out of office.

I like the comment by AmishBob about the real purpose of the permit fee being for revenue. Permits don't do a particularly good job of insuring quality work. When building was booming I guarantee you the actual inspection was minimal. Mr Steeber has a different philosophy on government than most of us. He seems to feel that the best government is that which interferes the most in our lives and takes the most from our wallet. To him government may be the end game.

according to this article, steeber equates people who make home improvements to the people in the county jail.
the article stated, "... Steeber pointed to the Rock County Jail, which he said is full of people who didn’t follow their consciences."

nice russ.
we take pride in our home. fix up something here and there -- and now we are criminals?

give me a break!

Q: How much will the revaluation cost?

A: Between $800,000 and $1.5 million. The city will hire an outside firm to supplement the six employees in the assessor’s office.

This was in the other article also...Looks like Janesville has money just burning a whole in its pocket that someone wants to spend. I don't understand why this city council isn't circling the wagons fiscally speaking and stop waisting all of this money. Bike trail, museums, and now 1.5 million to raise our own taxes...Why do we allows these clowns to run our city this way?

Exactly markr. If Mr. Steeber thinks building permit and code enforcement is inadequate, then he should work to get those processes improved. Using the assesment process to enforce building codes is ridiculous.

The underlying problem with permits is that people fear higher taxes. It's not the cost of the permits or the inspections, it the fear their taxes will go up as a result of the added renovations. That has been my experience with people I know regarding this issue.
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Right now the best thing the council can do, is simply stop spending money unless it involves bringing more work to the Janesville area. We're looking at children's museums and bike tunnels at time when thousands of people are out of work. But wait.... if you act now the city council with throw in an inspector to fine you for not getting a permit at no extra charge!!! Minus fines and handling.

This exemplifies the biggest problem with Mr. Steeber's presence on the council. He feels it is his job to "hold people's feet to the fire." He is a councilman, not the city's punitive agent.

I'm not quite sure I understand how its fair in the first place that someone with an extra bathroom SHOULD get taxed higher. Is it the extra water use? No, because that's covered in the water bill. Or how about an extra bedroom? Several have mentioned that we should be paying our fair share and therefore cooperate with assessments, but everybody seems to take it for granted that having a property tax at all is fair. I'm not sure I agree.

http://gazettextra.com/news/2008/nov/09/...

"And property owners might jeopardize their ability to dispute an assessment if they refuse an assessor entry."

Isn't this a direct violation of the 4th amendment to the constitution? I thought that amendment allowed us to exercise our rights without the government being able to punish us. By denying the citizenry the ability to dispute and assessment is a form of punishment and unconstitutional...

When I bought my house, the faucet in the bathroom leaked. I violated code by not having a licensed plumber do the work and by not obtaining a permit to have said work done. All in all it took me less than 1 hour and cost me less than $50 to do the work. If I'd followed the city statute, I'd have had a leaky faucet for a week or more and been charged a fair amount of coin for my efforts. If they want to fine me/tax me for my time and efforts it is within their legal right, but I'd hope there is at least an ounce of common sense in city hall these days.

Can you refuse to allow assessors into your house legally?

I can understand stricter enforcement of permits and more inspectors who could possibly stop randomly at suspect places from this point forward. However, giving retroactive fines seems a bit extreme. Even more so considering the number of people laid off from jobs right now. Adding retroactive fines for a basement someone put in ten years ago isn't going to help anyone.

The main story was about making everyone pay their fair share. If you remodeled your kitchen, to the tune of $25,000. without a building permit; is it fair that you are not paying taxes on the new value of your home? Are you paying your share of taxes, was the job done to code, is it the cities business?

The biggest reason for building permits, is to alert the assessers office to raise your property taxes. Also, to force the homeowner to use over priced labor to do the work.

If everyone had to use expensive labor to do the smallest things, then the majority of houses would be worth nothing.

I will NOT be allowing any 'inspectors' into my home.

If they did renovations which would result in increased assessments (such as an additional bathroom), then they should have to pay retroactive property taxes for 10 years. When they then say that they did the work last year, then they can be fined for doing the work with out a permit.

Replacing plaster with drywall is NOT something you need a permit for. You DO need a permit for structural alterations (anything from a new wing to a breakfast nook), new/altered plumbing, new/altered electrical, new/altered HVAC, and so forth. There are special permit procedures if you're in the Courthouse Hill Historic District.
http://www.ci.janesville.wi.us/citysite/...
(see "Do I need a permit?")
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But no, they're not checking for new drywall. There are a lot of jurisdictions (yes, in the US) where building code enforcement is incredibly strict by comparison. A lot of places, you can't sell your house if there is unpermitted work turned up by an inspector until it is brought to code. So Janesville really has it pretty easy-going.

Maybe Russ will use this too build on to the jail. We could have a special wing for people who put drop ceilings in their basements without a building permit.

Other potential punishments include:

1)Having to wear a sandwich-board saying "I drywalled without a permit"
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2)Public caning
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3)Calling offenders "chops"

Should we shut down HomeDepot and Menards ?

Maybe when someone buys something they should fill out a questionnaire. Where are you using the 2x4's ?

Get real. We must be short on problems.

Steeber's abrasive personality isn't helpful.

Looks like Janesville is trying to find a way to replace lost tax revenue from GM leaving...this is just the beginning people...

Will Steeber run for reelection?

zoom you are sooooo right.

Hay site staff can not handle the truth steeber should be removed from the city counsel

Russ Steeber obviously hasn't thought this through.

I new my comments would be removed steeber should be removed.

i can see this being a problem. i own a house built in 1880. has plaster walls and ceilings falling apart and falling off. this in turn endagers my child should it fall on her. i had to replace most of it with drywall as a repair. plaster work is expensive. place looks a little better. but by no means a full blown remodel. but of course it looks as it was. im not paying higher property taxes for a repair that just happen to make the room a little more appealing.

The point of having building permits is to make sure that construction follows building codes and to make sure that the value of the improvements is added to the tax role. They should not be used as an oppressive tool to discourage people from improving and maintaining their property.