I agree with aquajay....
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Tax dollars should cover with the basics...period.

The reason that Rotary Gardens is'nt getting any tax money is because they said they would be self sufficiant and not ask for any!

I would like to know what the payroll percentage of expenses is for other comparable gardens. The $475,000 payroll (administration & payroll) at Rotary Gardens is well over 50% of the entire income reported in the annual report. It is easy to Google “botanical gardens annual report” to see other gardens’ reports, but most of the reports that I saw were for far larger gardens. I don’t believe the economies of scale are the same when comparing Chicago or Denver with Janesville. Nevertheless, most of those gardens run at 25-30% payroll expense. Before the city gives money to Rotary Gardens, I believe that local management must look at ways to lessen payroll (either less paid positions or readjustment of salaries), and a way to increase contributions. The list of contributors listed on other cities’ reports is quite impressive. I couldn’t take the time to research whether any or all these other cities’ botanical gardens received local government funding.

Here is the rotary Gardens 2006 annual report.
http://www.rotarygardens.org/images/2006...

I'm for a subsidy for the Gardens, if they remain free and open to the public.

And I'll third it!
"The children's museum is a ridiculous idea. Give the money to the gardens."
And I even have schoolage kids!

I second this
"The children's museum is a ridiculous idea. Give the money to the gardens."

I agree with Warm:
"The children's museum is a ridiculous idea. Give the money to the gardens."

Not to worry. By the time GM workers run out of their UAW and State benefits resulting in massive property value devaluation, defaults on home loans and defaults on property taxes the City of Janesville will be lucky to have the money to keep water in the toilets in Palmer park. Heck they may have to go back to pit toilets (the ones with a half moon on the door). At least corn cobs are plentiful when it becomes too expensive to wipe with paper.

I got married at the gardens last year. It was great, not anymore expensive than a church, really. We had great weather and super pics. I recommend it to anyone

Walker if you think the average wedding in this area is $25,00-$30,00 then where were you 2 months ago when I got married, I would have loved more money, I spent less then $10,000. I would have loved to have my wedding at rotary gardens but $500 is crazy plus you have to rent chairs and if it rains your now out $500. I had a friend get married there this year and after going to our wedding at the Rock River Thresheree, who only charged $150 for use of the whole park, the husband said he would have rather had his wedding there. I love rotary gardens, Im a local photographer who uses it for portraits and taking pictures of flowers, I think its a little crazy to charge $5 but they need money too.

People keep asking where all the money goes that gets donated to Rotary Gardens. Rotary Gardens does get donated plants, but they also have to purchase some. They get charged for water, heat, electric just like our homes do. They do have employees that are very under paid for all the hard work they do. Do you know how hard it is to juggle 5 weddings in one day or help plan fun family events for you? The gardens has been trying to stay afloat for many years with just donations, but many people do not donate money who come to the gardens. How many of your children or friend's children go to the gardens for prom or homecoming photos? That means tons of families in the gardens and not many people donate money. The facility is used way more than people give in donations. It is not fair that other non-profit organizations get money and the gardens do not. I agree that the admission fee should not be in place, but that was their last choice. Maybe if all of you people who do not want to pay the fee would have donated some money before this happened they would not have to charge anything. And yes the gardens is mostly run by volunteers. Volunteer work at the gardens is hard. Think about your own gardens and yards at home. They all require a lot of work and time. Think about having to do all that care to a piece of land tripe or quadruple that amount of land. If you are against the fee then help the gardens get donations or money from the government so the gardens can be free to everyone again.

Well another good idea gone bad..I still have not seen that parking lot full or crowds of people walking around.If people are coming in from all around to see the garden they are really stealthy. Me thinks that this can of worms is yet to be opened fully. Best of luck to the Gardens but my $5 still goes to the gas tank. Sorry.

I have problems understanding how and where the Gardens spend their money. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan. I love going to visit Rotary Gardens and will continue to do so even with the $5 fee. That being said, if anyone can help me understand where all of the money is going, I'd be very appreciative. As I understand it, the gardens operates on volunteer work. I know they have a few employees (I think 4 or 5). I know that a lot of the plants are donated. I know that a lot (if not all) of the Christmas lights are donated for the Winter Wonderland walk. This place charges an arm and a leg for weddings, admission to Winter Wonderland, etc. I just don't understand how they are losing so much money.
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I'd also like to stress that although I personally love the gardens, I'd never ask the city to pay for it (anymore than it already has). Although I do realize the city has already invested quite a sum of taxpayer money into the Gardens, it's survival should now rely on the board and the guests who actually use it.
The city council has already offended too many Janesvillians with its approval of the bike tunnel, childrens museum, and skatepark. Right now I think that the city of Janesville needs to realize that this isn't an appropriate time to be allocating money for frivolous wants, and not saving for a time when there will be actual needs. Regardless of what Amy Loasching says, the Childrens Museum is a want, it's not a need.
As much as it pains me to say it, Rotary Gardens falls into the same category. While I do not think that the Gardens should be able to rely on taxpayer money, I want to stress that they can count on my $5.00.

Rotary Gardens should up the cost to hold special events at the gardens. Since the layout of the place attracts people to want to get married there, have photos done there or parties, then make the people who wish to showcase themselves in the gardens pay for the upkeep of them. $500 for a wedding is nothing when you see the average pricetag on a wedding is betwen $25,000-$33,000 in our area, according to a Google search. There is no logical reason for the tax payers to foot the bill so they can have a pretty place to get married. Yes, the gardens weddings guests might use Janesville hotels and restaurants while here, but the guests would be here anyway, wether the wedding was in a church or the gardens.
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There is suppose to be a fee paid to have a professional photographer in there to take photos like graduation, engagement, etc. A once a year fee. Instead make them pay an amount for each session, since its the background of the photos. Again, the tax payers should not have to keep up the gardens so others can have pretty pictures.

...You said "I believe the government is roughly made up of our people...". Again, naivete my friend, although I agree that there is in general better representation at the local level. You said "If we were left to fund what we wanted, I do not believe our country could function much at all. Many people are not capable". So you favor giving away your power to the elite geniuses in gov't? Again, count me out! Your last question "Should the poorer members of our community not be able to go see Rotary Gardens, play organized sports, or do other activities you feel they should pay for?" The answer to that is that those who run those organizations can decide, don't you think the gardeners want everyone to see the flowers? Those people are kinder and more benevolent than you might think.
And finally, "it should be people who are living very comfortably (driving the BMWs, and living in $500,00 homes) who should be looked to when it comes to funding the bulk of our government services". The green monster is alive and well, I see. Sorry, the class warfare argument doesn't work for me. On a practical level, and this goes back to the Clinton years, when government needs money it has to take it where the most people are, meaning the middle class. There simply aren't enough filthy rich people to steal it from. The Clintons wanted to "soak the rich", but then we found out later that in order to get the revenue they wanted, they redefined rich. How does it feel to be rich by the way? And you never answered my original question, where does it all end?

CriticalThinking - Re: city or county parks. We can quibble about the parks, I think a certain amount of open space is appropriate, particularly in the neighborhoods, free and available to all. Where I feel compelled to write, is where the city government starts building and/or maintaining facilities that are so far out of the realm of responsible government as to be ridiculous. Ice arenas, botanical gardens, golf courses, these types of things come to mind. These are all examples that benefit the few, at the expense of the many. The idea of "community" is important, but the community consists of the people, not the government. The government should be as small and unobtrusive as possible, consistent with it's limited purposes. Examples (at the city level of government) are the police and fire departments, building departments, DPW, court system. These are legitimate functions of a city government. You said "Even if they cannot enjoy a feature of a community, they benefit as long as the feature makes the community a better place to live". The problem with that is, who decides whether a given expenditure makes the community a better place to live? Or maybe it just gives YOUR kids a place to skate? Do you see the problem here? Your idea politicizes every expenditure (hence the discussion we are having here). And sorry, your public golf course doesn't benefit me. I don't golf, so why should I be forced at the barrel of a gun to pay for your course? I know you don't want to live in Denmark, I was just trying to make a point. And I would disagree that some of these places have a higher quality of life, and for those that do, the last thing I would attribute that to would be government spending! Re: the "greater good". That sounds an awful like a Nazi slogan. Or maybe out of the mouth of Karl Marx. And yes, money IS better spent by people than by government. If you don't believe that, feel free to send each level of government more of your money, but leave the rest of us out of it. You said...

lakennedy... Will you be my best friend???

LMAO @ gas fairy... Love it...

In good times, our taxes paid for nice things like bike paths and park upgrades. We are now entering what many predict will be the worst recession since the great depression, and GM will be closing sooner rather than later.

The Tallman house should survive, only because if it isn't maintained and will eventually be taken down, we can never get it back. If survival isn't possible, I'll understand, and chalk it up to our crappy economy. The children's museum needs to wait, and I will vote against any council member that approves the next step in it's construction, until the economy recovers. If the city is going to spend money on the Youth Sports Complex, it should also spend money on a skatepark. In my opinion, both of those projects should also be put on hold for the near future.

It's very clear that the Rotary Gardens board doesn't really want to charge admission, but are using that idea as a stick to get help from the city. Considering the seemingly endless number of unnecessary projects the Council has been approving recently, I can't blame the Rotary Gardens board for trying to get their fair share. Unfortunately, this is very bad timing. The Gardens will need to downsize their operation and adapt, just like any other non-profit business must adapt. If people are traveling less to the gardens due to high fuel prices, for instance, it makes no sense for the city to subsidize that downturn, when the city itself will be experiencing reduced revenues. It will be interesting to see how our new city manager will handle this mess. I wish him well.

whoannellie:
Hate to tell you this, but going to Madison is not free. I go everyday for school, and it costs a lot more than five dollars a trip. I don't know if you have a little gas fairy you're hiding from the rest of us, but I do know I have to pay for gas. Perhaps you have wings and fly to Madison. I'm thrilled that you somehow brought Barack Obama into the story, though. Just a reminder, the only way he's going to be in your pocketbook is if you make more than $250,000 a year. If that's the case, then have fun in Canada because he's going to be the next President. I won't miss you. But, looking on the bright side of things, apparently you don't have to pay for gas, so at least your trip out of America will be free!!! We both win!

SuperDave -- While I will grant you the objection to my road example, I do not see you commenting on city or county parks. Also, I do believe an elderly handicapped individual benefits from services you believe should be paid for by private citizens. Even if they cannot enjoy a feature of a community, they benefit as long as the feature makes the community a better place to live. If funding the gardens, skate park etc... makes Janesville a more attractive place to people who are looking for somewhere to relocate it does benefit everyone. I never said I wanted to live in any of the places I listed, only that they have a better quality of life than we do. Regardless of what type of government system we have in place comparing our country to countries that are better than us can only make us stronger. By the way, the countries I listed may officially be monarchies, but they also have very strong democratic governments, so they are not that different from us (except the people understand paying taxes for the greater good of all). You claim "money is better spent by people than by government." Although I do not have complete faith in our system, I believe the government is roughly made up of our people, especially local governments (ie. city council etc). Looking at the state of the American people, economy, and foreign relations, it seems we are not well equipped to spend our money. If we were left to fund what we wanted, I do not believe our country could function much at all. Many people are not capable of deciding what the greater good is let alone how to help it.
One final point, even if I were to give you the we should pay for "little extras" argument (which I am not), what about those who cannot pay for them? Should the poorer members of our community not be able to go see Rotary Gardens, play organized sports, or do other activities you feel they should pay for? The elderly person you describe should not be looked to when it comes to paying the vast majority of taxes, rather it should be people who are living very comfortably (driving the BMWs, and living in $500,00 homes) who should be looked to when it comes to funding the bulk of our government services. I know, I know , many people say they already do, but oh well, if you don't like your taxes move somewhere else: this is the United States of America, and we pay taxes to help ALL people, not just ourselves.

Living elsewhere, but being a Janesville native, I sure do appreciate the beauty of Rotary Gardens, Janesville is very lucky to have that lovely place. It would be best if they put a cap on the charges like $5/person, but no more than $15/family or something like that. I am sure they could live with that. I have always put money in the slot when I go there anyway as I realize that nothing comes free these days and it must take a lot of money to keep up that beautiful place. I am amazed at the people that think they should be able to go there for free.

CriticalThinking - My question to you is - where does it end? Why not build a rec centre for these overweight kids, complete with tennis courts, Olympic-sized pools, diet counselors, free massages...It always comes down to, who pays? And who benefits? (And don't forget that government always takes a generous cut of the spoils for themselves along the way). And NO, everyone does NOT benefit. How does your elderly, handicapped neighbor benefit when they take more from her fixed income and then give $100,000 to a children's museum, botanical gardens, or historic landmark. If you want to live in Denmark that's your business, but this is the United States of America, a constitutional republic, not a socialist monarchy. Don't forget that the money has to come from somewhere - if left with it's rightful owners (taxpayers), they will choose what to support, without the need for a middleman (government). If you honestly think that "we get so much for it" you are incredibly naive and ill-informed. And to your other point, a person who does not drive does NOT pay taxes (directly) to increase the quality of our roads. Road taxes are generally fuel excise taxes, so someone who doesn't drive, and doesn't buy fuel does not directly pay for road maintenance. This is one of the few taxes that actually makes sense. Your mistake in logic is a common one. You believe that all of the infrastructure that you can see with your own eyes is somehow paid for by taxes in general. Most infrastructure is maintained by user fees. I object specifically to the collection of income and property taxes. That doesn't mean that my money "is more important than the well-being of the country". It means that I think that money is better spent by people than by government. And again, I am astounded that you would equate being taxed to the country's well-being. That's quite a lot of misplaced faith in government.

"Stunned" L.O.L.
NO more hand outs.
The city realizes it needs to invest in it's youth to continue its future. If the gardens became educational they may have a chance for subsidies but then again we already have the dnr for educational facilities.

Well SuperDave, I hope you do not take advantage of any publicly funded leisure programs or sights. Do you ever go to a city park, maybe a county park. The fact is, these "little extras" ought to be funded by all of us as they do benefit all of us even if we do not use them. I will not use the skatepark, but I am sure glad I won't have to be burdened by as many wandering kids. In a time when so many youth are over weight, I am glad the city is putting in athletic fields even though I will not use them. We are part of a community, and as a community we support one another (or should). Just because you will not personally use something does not mean it should not get city/state/federal funding. Using your line of reasoning, a person who does not drive should not have to pay taxes to increase the quality of our roads. Why is it so many people get upset over our small tax rate when we get so much from it. Looking at other (more prosperous) countries in the world (I'm thinking Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland), we pay next to nothing. Of course our quality of life isn't as good, there is more unemployment, obesity, unhappiness, and poverty, but I guess your money is more important than the well-being of the country. I say the city should fund the gardens, they bring people into the city, and in some cases keep them here. In these trying times for Janesville, we need all the positive places we can find.

Yes, our members pay dues. Unfortunately, those dues don't even cover the cost of all the insurance we must have.
Only 10% of our revenue comes from dues paid by members. 85% comes from fundraising (pass the hat, haunted house, dance, program book advertising, Friends campaign, hosting tournaments, concessions, etc.) The remaining 5% comes from grants and in-kind donations.

By no means am I suggesting that the Rock Aqua Jays receiving any City funding.

All I'm saying is that if the City Council chooses to subsidize additional nonprofits, others will follow. How then will the Council be able to say no?

Help people get jobs, make sure they have enough to eat and a warm place to sleep. Then, and only then, subsidize the things that will make Janesville a better place to live, work and play.

What I don't understand is it costs up tp $500.00 to have a wedding at rotary gardens, and through the spring, summer, and fall their weddings are booked up to 5 daily. Where is this money going? I personally come from a hard working family and just don't see it posible to pay $25.00 every time I want to take a stroll through the gardens with my family!!!

Well, well, well. Whenever tax money is used inappropriately, everyone will fight for what they want and deny what others want. The truth is, NONE of these organizations, however worthy, belong at the public slop bucket. Gardens are nice, those that like visiting them can pay a small entry fee. Skate parks are great for kids, either the kids who use them, or their parents, should pay. The Tallman House is a wonderful legacy for the city. It should be owned and maintained by a private party. If no private party steps forward, well then that speaks for itself. Athletic fields? User fees. Get the pattern? Whoever wants these little extras should pay for them. Leave the rest of us out of it, it's not a legitimate function of government, and certainly not the responsibility of taxpayers to pay for someone's entertainment.

I for one will not pay for a trip to Rotary gardens when I can go to Madison for free! And I don't live there! Maybe the suggestion to charge out of towners a fee has some merit, but then again maybe Obama could spread some wealth to them since he seems to have sooo much! Stay out of my wallet!

Why would a private organization want money from the city? Do they like being told what to do with their treasure? As far as the other money the city is approving, why can't we approve $1.4 million for a mens homeless shelter? There are people out there sleeping in the cold, and you know how much you hate walking the ten feet to your car in winter mornings. Imagine living in that cold with nothing, and no future you can think of. How about bringing detox back instead of shipping everybody to Madison? This city is closing programs that actually help people, and are spending the money on recreational purposes instead.

Please stop bashing Rotary Gardens. I no longer live in Janesville, however the gardens are a wonderful addition to Janesville in which we should secure. People travel throughout Rock County to enjoy the Gardens.

Aqua Jay... I think it is great what the Rock Aqua Jays do. I love the shows (although I have not been to one in years) and I have many friends who are part of the organization. However, those members pay dues. Rotary Gardens does not have dues or members like you do. Thank you for your insight though, and keep up the great work. I hope everything gets rebuilt before you nexts years season starts.

Rotary Gardens provides so much to the Janesville community that gets taken for granted. I fully support any decision they decide to make, as their members fully believe in giving back to the community.

Why are there no dollars for the gardens? Could it have something to do with the attitude of charging people to walk across the land to the public body of water to fish? I understand the law allows them to charge for that, but remember, "Just because you can, doesn't mean you should."

I do understand that Rotary Gardens add a lot to our community and are a large visitor attraction, so let visitors pay - not residents. Perhaps they shouldn't have built their huge country club...

Life's not fair. Get over it. Figure out a business model that keeps you in the green, or be done. Every time I visited the gardens I'd always donate 5-10 dollars. I'd also encourage others to do the same. But with this new attitude you're presenting, I will take my dollars to MADISON.

Subsidies??? Why would any nonprofit organization expect to receive any cash subsidy from the City?

I fully support Rotary Gardens, a skatepark, the Tallman House and a children's museum. (The timing is not right, but I support it.)

Nonprofit organizations are supposed to be self-sustaining. There are other organizations in this city that bring in a lot of people and get no cash subsidies. Those organizations that are 501(c)(3) nonprofits can be exempt from property taxes and from paying sales tax. Perhaps the only subsidy the City should give is to waive special event and park pavilion rental fees.

I represent the Rock Aqua Jays, an organization that has been a fixture in Janesville for nearly 50 years. We hosted the national tournament at Traxler Park over 20 times since 1975. Never once did we ask for a subsidy from the City. Faced with a natural disaster that wiped out an entire season of performances, we had no choice but to go to the City to ask for help with the stage and beach, most of which will be paid for through federal funding.

The Rock Aqua Jays are not going to seek any kind of subsidy from the City. And, that's the way it should be for ALL other nonprofits who do not provide food, shelter, clothing, housing or other essentials to those who need them.

Subsize one, subsidize them all. Does the City Council really want to "open this can of worms?"

Joel Shapiro
Rock Aqua Jays Water Ski Club, Inc.
President

Why is there no green for the gardens? umm thats easy. The Tallman House is a historic structure that is part of Janesville's past. The gardens are not. Simple as that. The BMX track that used. Had more historic value than the gardens do at 5 bucks a pop.