Budget talks get heated
JANESVILLE — Firefighters might die if training is cut to help the city achieve a zero budget increase, Fire Chief Larry Grorud said in a heated city council budget meeting Wednesday night.
"I don't want to kill firefighters," Grorud said.
Councilman George Brunner, former Janesville police chief, said difficult economic times call for a zero city spending increase—which would yield a drop in the proposed tax rate of about 2 percent.
When Brunner asked if the fire department could refrain from out-of-state travel, Grorud called it one of the most "ludicrous" statements anyone could make.
Grorud said he could send firefighters cheaper to Rockford, Ill., for training, for example, than to Ashland.
Grorud argued he couldn't cut anything from his budget without cutting people because 92 percent is personnel costs.
Brunner also butted heads with Councilman Russ Steeber, who opposed many of Brunner's suggested cuts. After a heated exchange about the fire department budget, Brunner appeared ready to walk out of the meeting.
By the end of the night, the council had painstakingly trimmed $80,200 from the 2009 budget, ending a long way from an approximate $545,000 goal.
The proposed tax levy is $27.78 million, an increase of about 4.58 percent. A $272,526 levy cut would be needed to reduce the tax rate 1 percent.
The four-hour session Wednesday was the first of three scheduled budget study sessions. The second is Wednesday, Oct. 29.
Council members said at the beginning of the meeting they would not cut personnel.
And because people comprise the majority of the budget, members often went line-by-line looking for other options.
Training, conferences, memberships and subscriptions got especially hard looks.
Brunner said the cuts could be accomplished without impacting services by "tightening belts and controlling expenditures."
Said Steeber: "I'm going to sound like the guy who doesn't want to cut budgets. (But) police and fire are an area you cannot skimp on. Conferences, training, clothing … That's what keeps our citizens safe."
Councilman Tom McDonald responded: "I absolutely disagree that police and fire are off limits and cannot possibly be touched."
And Yuri Rashkin said, "I think we owe it to the city of Janesville to ask questions."
The fire budget includes $55,000 in training, conferences and memberships, Grorud said.
Some of that is for Grorud and two deputy chiefs to attend the International Association of Fire Chiefs convention in Dallas. Grorud recently was installed as president, and he asked that both deputy chiefs be allowed to attend.
The council and Grorud agreed to cut $3,100 of $6,200 set aside in case he needs to outfit any new recruits.
Steeber said wage and benefit increases make a zero budget increase unrealistic.
But Amy Loasching said she believes there is "plenty of fluff" in the budget.
Steeber disagreed.
"I don't think that there's any staff or any department ... that would intentionally put fluff in the budget," Steeber said.
But Loasching said the city has to cut just as families are cutting. Some examples of "fluff," she said, are travel, memberships, conferences and some training.
McDonald said: "I'm sure people would rather keep their jobs than have an … overnight retreat somewhere. I think training is important, (but) we don't need to go all over the country."
Said Steeber: "I don't think we can get close to $600,000 in cuts just by cutting … this conference or that publication … It seems almost impossible without affecting staffing levels to some degree."
BUDGET CUTS
Some cuts from the 2009 proposed city budget include:
-- $18,488 from the general fund, accomplished by delaying until July hiring an assistant director of administrative services. The remainder of the salary is paid for by non-general fund departments.
-- $10,500 from staff development.
-- $300 from supplies for the neighborhood services department.
-- $5,250 from sending notices to residents about neighborhood meetings. The notices instead will be included in the city's newsletters.
-- $3,100 from firefighter gear.
The council also asked Jay Winzenz, acting city manager, to come back with a proposal for a managerial retreat that doesn't include an overnight. Winzenz wanted to take staff to Lake Geneva at a cost of about $5,000, of which $3,850 would come from the general fund.
Councilman Tom McDonald said something nice could be done locally to avoid the motel room cost, while councilman Russ Steeber said there is "something to be said for being completely out of the city."
Oct 24, 2008 at 9:21 a.m.
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I do believe in educational hrs I have to do them for my Job. But I have to pay for my own room If I stay over. I have to pay for my own gas to get there & back and my boss will only pay for one meeting a year. If you are going to meetings so close we shouln'd have to pay for gas or rooms stay in your own or pay for it yourself also I have to pay for my own meals so should you. Those are the things that I would call fluff in a budget.You all could cut back If you really wanted to. Where there is a will there is a way.
Oct 23, 2008 at 9:27 p.m.
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I commend Mr Brunner for his actions. Yes, He is a former cheif of police but he recognizes the REAL situation here. We need to tighten up as the economic scrunch sets in. it's gonna be tough for everyone. I do think the money spending that Mr Steeber and others have voted on recently is out of touch with reality. I do think that the council needs to rethink their decisions to spend 1.4 million for a ball park, Build a childrens museum, Put in a pedestrian tunnel and the like. If We as citizens have to tighten up, So can the council. A no brainer on that one. As for the "fluff" issue, It wouldn't surprise me if most department heads add fluff into the budget every year. Numbers can be "inflated" as we all know from our federal government. Its time to use a no tax increase budget on the important things essential and in other areas that need to be done in this city that the council neglects. If you start giving 1.4 million to one group, Then everyone wants money. You opened up a can of worms. Hence the Jpac group,( old Marshall school when they could have fixed the upper third floor stage area of the senior center!) And now Youth baseball, ( a new sports complex when they could be fixing up Dawson fields baseball diamonds!) Wake up council, If your going to spend money, Then do it wisely, For REAL essentials and in budget with no tax increase. Mr Brunner has my support in his efforts.
Oct 23, 2008 at 8:56 p.m.
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LOL happycamper!
Oct 23, 2008 at 8:55 p.m.
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Oh yeah, by the way, why do they have to go all the way to Lake Geneva and pay twice the amouont just because it's a tourist town? Go to Evansville, Clinton, stay in town. Put our money back into our city and/or county.
I do agree that it would be much cheaper to send the various departments to trainings and such in Rockford versus sending them up into the great frozen tundra of the state. Transportation costs are being cut to the residents, why not the departments that run our city and county?
Oct 23, 2008 at 8:52 p.m.
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Hey cut her some slack sabotslug, she can see walworth county from her house.
Oct 23, 2008 at 8:51 p.m.
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They are willing to risk the lives of residents by cutting back of police, fire, and rescue? How absurd! There is other ways of cutting than to let the residents and police, fire and resuce personnel to be placed in harms way! Get real. Raise our taxes with it earmarked specifically for these services. Dang it, isn't a life more important than money?
Oct 23, 2008 at 8:36 p.m.
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It is obvious, not just by this meeting but by past meetings, that Brunner is a power hungry egomaniac! He knows more than most that personnel expenses account for the majority of the fire and police budgets. I guarantee he would not have missed a conference as a police chief! As police chief, Brunner would have cut training for his officers before he would miss HIS CONFERENCE! I commend Fire Chief Grorud for sticking up for his firefighters.
ALSO, Mrs. Loasching believes there is “plenty of fluff" in the budgets? ARE YOU KIDDING! This city has been cutting back for years. That comment is an INSULT to the heads of all city services! Stop trying to increase your vocabulary by watching the presidential debates!
Oct 23, 2008 at 6:08 p.m.
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I agree with lvbald.
Oct 23, 2008 at 5:45 p.m.
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I guess citizen safety is not a concern of this Council (Brunner)!
Oct 23, 2008 at 4:09 p.m.
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King George just needs to step aside or get used not having absolute control like he was given when he ran the Police Dept. If he can't have a meaningful discussion without getting mad when people disagree, he has no business being there. Do something for someone other than yourself for a change and resign.
Oct 23, 2008 at 2:22 p.m.
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Considering where we live, I agree that it is "ludicrous" to not travel out of state for training. Compare the distance to Ashland with the distance to Rockford. 336 miles vs 36 miles. I don't care if Ashland is in Wisconsin, Rockford is closer. This is like someone buying food grown in Superior vs food grown in S.Beloit because Superior is in Wisconsin thus they are "eating local".
As for fluff in the budget, I don't think the council knows the meaning of fluff if they think a children's museum is a "necessity".
If Brunner was so mad that he was about to walk out of the meeting (which is just an observation by the reporter, unless he actually made any actions towards it), then he should just resign his seat and let someone who can take an ego bruising do the job.
Oct 23, 2008 at 1:46 p.m.
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Grorud goes to Dallas, the assistants stay home. The firefighters get the training and equipment they need. Cancel the bike tunnel and the children's museum and put any money already allocated to those two projects back into the general fund. Delay payments to the Sports Complex and the skate park until this economy settles out---a year or two, probably. By then we should know how many families have left town for other employment.
Oct 23, 2008 at 1:17 p.m.
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Wow the first paragraph to this article sounds so depressing...Does the editor not read this stuff before it hits the press?
Oct 23, 2008 at 1:15 p.m.
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"I don't think that there's any staff or any department ... that would intentionally put fluff in the budget," Steeber said.
This is the most ridiculous statement I've ever read relating to budgets. Get your head out of the sand, Russ.
Oct 23, 2008 at 1:10 p.m.
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Grorud's statement was extremely rude and juvenile. Brunner asks a question and he gets attacked. Cut his entire trip to Dallas.
Oct 23, 2008 at 12:51 p.m.
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What is a "managerial retreat"? What goes on at one?
Is the proposed city budget on-line somewhere, where we can see it?
Oct 23, 2008 at 12:48 p.m.
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To say that any budget cannot possibly be cut is, to quote Mr. Grorud, "ludicrous." If you are that inflexible, you shouldn't be in management. I have no problem with Grorud going to Dallas, but tkaing both assistants is a "nice to have" not a "need to have."
Oct 23, 2008 at 12:17 p.m.
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If I can cut a vacation to California why does the council need a retreat??? Why does it cost $5,000.00 to go to Lake Geneva..... How many people are going?
Oct 23, 2008 at 11:58 a.m.
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Why is it that my tax dollars are paying for a managerial retreat???? I would rather that the money be spent on training our fire fighters!
Oct 23, 2008 at 11:57 a.m.
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It's unfortunate -- it sounds from this article as though Grorud was taking this personally. I'm skeptical of the need for a zero budget anyway (recessionary times call for increased government spending, not belt-tightening), but the city may well expect revenues to actually decrease even though this is difficult to accurately predict, so it's worth being careful. A couple of years of every department trimming these semi-discretionary expenses won't be a disaster, and does leave more headroom for the long-term investments that sometimes cause so much community hand-wringing.
Oct 23, 2008 at 11:30 a.m.
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They should give them the proper training. The Gazette did not like my budget spread sheet.
Oct 23, 2008 at 11:09 a.m.
Oct 23, 2008 at 11:07 a.m.
Oct 23, 2008 at 10:35 a.m.
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""When Brunner asked if the fire department could refrain from out-of-state travel, Grorud called it one of the most "ludicrous" statements anyone could make.""
First off, Larry, it's not a statement it's obviously a question and it deserves a civil answer. Tough times are ahead for Janesville and everybody needs to cooperate, including the fire department
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