Trouble plagues bars that cater to growing minority population
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Corvinas bouncer Rick Quillman stands in the doorway of the bar. Lisa Black of the security team uses a metal detection wand on a customer in the background.
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The bar at Corvinas on a Friday night in downtown Janesville.
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Security member Lisa Black checks a customer's purse at the door of Corvinas bar in Janesville.
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The Corvinas bar owner posted multiple signs including one that affirms their right to refuse service to anyone for any reason.
JANESVILLE — Hip-hop clubs have run into problems with the authorities in Janesville, which raises the question: Can a community accommodate the entertainment desires of a growing minority population without conflict?
A perfect answer does not seem to be within anyone's grasp in Janesville or elsewhere. Even Madison, famed for its supposed welcoming of diversity, in recent years has experienced several violent incidents at hip-hop nightclubs and accusations of unfair police treatment.
In Janesville, Spankys featured late-night dancing with mostly hip-hop and rhythm & blues in 2007-08. Corvina's at 123 E. Milwaukee St. now has much the same music.
In both cases, police got involved when violent incidents were linked to those bars.
Corvina's owner Janelle Barlass appeared before the city's alcohol license advisory committee July 7 to answer police concerns. She said police unfairly target her bar because many patrons are "a different culture of people."
The subtext: Maybe there's a racial element to the conflict.
Police say they target behavior, not skin color. Deputy Chief Steve Kopp said police walk-throughs of bars are common, and police don't visit Corvina's more often than any other downtown bar.
Bar owners and police interviewed for this story said the way bars are managed is crucial, especially when patrons are youthful. Bouncers must be trained to spot and defuse trouble, and some believe music can play a pivotal role in controlling a crowd.
Fingers were pointed at the music played both at Spankys and Corvina's. Can a bar feature hip-hop and provide a peaceful experience for patrons?
"I don't know. I really don't know," said Matt Schreier, owner of the Looking Glass bar and member of the alcohol license committee.
Spankys, at 18-24 S. River St. River St., closed in 2008 as the city was moving to shut it down. Corvina's is open. The owner said she has improved security.
Spankys had many more serious incidents than Corvina's, Deputy Chief Steve Kopp acknowledged, adding that police are trying to get out ahead of any trouble at Corvina's.
Quotes Bar & Grill, which is located two blocks from Corvina's, had more police contacts since Jan. 1, Kopp pointed out.
"The difference between Quotes and a lot of other establishments is most of the incidents are reported by Quotes," Kopp said. "They're recognizing the problem, and they're calling us. We don't hold it against the bar. That's what we want in these situations."
'Discriminated against'
Barlass said she doesn't call police because there's never been an incident that her staff couldn't handle.
Police reports from May 14 to July 19 show only two violent incidents at Corvina's.
The worst was the June 28 stabbing of one woman by another woman a block away from Corvina's. Police believe the suspect, who was 20 and not legally allowed to drink, was served at Corvina's earlier in the evening.
The victim was treated and released at Mercy Hospital. Police still are investigating and not releasing details.
In the other violence report, a brief fistfight, police were not even sure the violence had happened, reports indicate.
"Why am I a trouble bar? I've not had any arrests in the bar," Barlass said, adding that she's always been open and honest with the police.
Many of the incidents police have connected to Corvina's have been minor, such as a stolen purse or a bicycle stolen from outside, she said.
"I don't know how I'm not supposed to think I'm being discriminated against," she said.
In an April incident when Corvina's was under different ownership, a 23-year-old Janesville man was hit on the head with a bottle, causing injuries that required 12 stitches. The incident was related to a Beloit gang dispute, and some witnesses said a handgun was involved, police reports indicate.
One witness told police that when a bar gets shut down in Beloit, gang members often pick a bar in Janesville, and in April that bar was Corvina's.
Barlass said her dress code focuses on keeping gangs out.
Kopp said police are scrutinizing Corvina's out of concerns of officers, two nearby bar owners, another neighbor of Corvina's and passersby, Kopp said.
The common thread in the complaints is large numbers of people standing outside the Corvina's entrance on the busy corner of Milwaukee Street and Parker Drive.
The role of race
David Toles, who has taken over as Corvina's security chief, said people's concerns might be heightened because of the crowd's race.
"Janesville isn't used to seeing but a handful of black people, and yet you've got a whole room full of them on the weekend," Toles said.
Whether race played a role in complainants' perceptions is anyone's guess. Local diversity specialist Bob Baldwin said it's plausible.
"Bias exists, and it exists because whites don't have to think about it. They don't have to think about how their actions affect other people," Baldwin said. "As an African-American man, my presence can affect people, just by the fact that I'm there."
"When people are reporting these behaviors to us, they are not saying it is black people or white people. They're saying it's groups of people," Kopp said. "I can't speak for what's going on in people's minds. But what is being portrayed to us is, it's people. It's not people of a different race."
Kopp said he focuses on practical matters, such as safety: "It doesn't take too many people on that corner to crowd into the street. I have safety concerns. Somebody could get clipped by a vehicle."
Madison, a much larger city, has had worse if similar clashes in recent years.
As recently as February, participants at one Madison dance event accused police there of overreacting to a report of a fight at bar time. The Brink Lounge announced it was banning hip-hop shows after that event, according to The Capital Times.
Music mix
Quotes, 24 N. Main St., is a bar that also garnered police scrutiny shortly after it opened about five years ago.
Quotes owner Denise Carpenter said she was not ready for the influx of youthful partiers, but she soon learned. She now offers her bar as a model for how to control a crowd of youthful drinkers.
Quotes is not a hip-hop bar, but it does play some of the hip-hop that makes it into the Top 40.
Carpenter said it doesn't matter the style of music. She wants to keep her music mix full of what she calls happy songs, not angry songs.
"It's the overall feel of the music, kind of positive and upbeat versus something that could be more aggressive and attract the wrong crowd and perhaps make people who are happy-go-lucky to not act so happy," said Quotes disc jockey and security chief Bill Salmon.
Carpenter also bans a few rock songs and slow-moving R&B tunes, such as Kanye West's "Good Life," which can cause a gloomy mood, she said. Other banned songs cause dancers to want to bump and grind on other dancers who might not want that.
"There's a lot of great hip-hop, great rap out there that's happy," Carpenter said.
She also won't play heavy metal rock music, except on sparsely attended Monday nights.
Barlass said she doesn't allow gangster rap at Corvina's, but she's had trouble with DJs who ignored that ban when they got requests from the crowd. She said she's gone through three DJs because they didn't obey her orders.
Barlass said she had to wait until the end of the night to fire the DJs. "If you cut it off, you're going to create a riot. It's kind of a touchy situation," she said.
Barlass said her background is in classical music, but "I understand what angry, violent music is. I'm not an idiot."
Other than those constraints, Barlass said she tells her DJ to "play what people want" because "I need this bar packed."
Normally, however, the bar is packed only in the late-night hours on weekends.
Carpenter calls Quotes "an entry-level bar," a place where the 21-plus set can learn proper behavior, and Quotes provides it, she said.
Carpenter backs up her control of musical choices with security. Sixteen cameras are mounted inside and outside the bar, she said. Four bouncers are on duty on busy nights—similar to Corvina's security force.
Everyone who enters Quotes must have an ID that is scanned to verify it's real and to ensure that anyone on the bar's database of banned patrons stays out.
The bar staff and bouncers are trained to recognize trouble before it starts, Carpenter said.
"It's being aware of what's going on in your bar, the mood that your customers are in. Good bartenders, good door staff, should be able to see a situation starting before it bubbles over," agreed Matt Schreier, owner of the nearby Looking Glass bar.
Carpenter has sent her staff to the Janesville police's occasional conflict-resolution training. Barlass has indicated an interest in an upcoming session, police said.
Corvina's has something Quotes doesn't have, a metal detector.
The detector wand was used on every patron who entered on a recent Friday night.
A female bouncer with a flashlight searched women's purses.
No one objected to being searched.
They seemed to expect it.
Aug 19, 2009 at 7:39 a.m.
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Today, August 19, according to WCLO, Corvina's has been issued a 14 day eviction notice.
Aug 19, 2009 at 7:35 a.m.
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Today, August 19th, according to WCLO, Corvina's has been issued a 14 day eviction notice.
Aug 17, 2009 at 3:46 p.m.
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Neweagle...., just to clear up what seems to be a mystery to you:
This matter is about a sliver of one percent of one percent of the people in Janesville and its environs going to one or two places downtown and acting like thugs. Nothing more.
If the above cited behavior seems like a huge sociological problem to you, it's because such behavior ends up in the news; and coverage of such behavior tends to give the impression that the "problem" is larger than it really is.
Our responsibility as thinking human beings is to accurately gauge the magnitude of things reported in the news.
Aug 17, 2009 at 10:47 a.m.
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There were a whole lot of comments posted on this article probably meant to define perhaps why there is "bar trouble?" Before coming to this area I had not ever been exposed to racism as people were people no matter what color their skin was or where they worked, or what they drank, or how they acted. Since coming here a year ago, I have been amazed at how people look down on Mexican or Hispanic people and yet use them for kitchen jobs paying them less money and not demanding they speak English so people can understand the cooking orders given them. I have noticed the African Americans lining up along the walls as if on a football team or grinding on the dance floor with girls who seemingly think they need to have one on occasion. There are homosexuals in every town and they are of many colors I am so sure. A rainbow of existing different people come into a bar. Last summer I witnessed about twenty guys come out of Legends and begin to fight. Many wanted to join in for some stupid reason.
Could it be we lack community? Could it be the older city fathers and mothers are offended by the moral climate ignorance has really encouraged? This is not a bar thing? This is not a color thing. This is a matter of are you going to accept weed in bars? Are you going to look the other way when someone is having sesx on the dance floor? Are you going to just let someone of any color sit on a bar stool and leave them the hell alone??
I will not ever understand how people judge the appearance of someone. Last summer I met a young man filled with shratnel scars, and very upset. He was drinking too much, and war does that to a guy. He needed someone to care, not someone with big muscles to throw him out of the place. I have met most of the bouncers hired at different bars. I have spent time talking with them and I respect them and how they treat people, and how they are sensitive to what is happening. Try it sometimes, cause its better than a psychology couch of those who think they should be able to judge.
Aug 16, 2009 at 10:44 a.m.
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I have worked in the bar buisiness for 20 years and this I can tell you with all qualification. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH COLOR. This is demographics plain and simple people. who requires the most supervision in our society? youth. The average age of the people at clubs playing this kind of music is 21-25. They are not at peak maturity and as dysfunctional under the influence as any age group out there. But they have disposable income up the yohoo and the revenues are significant so let the madness begin. Security, Security, Security
Aug 9, 2009 at 6:44 p.m.
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I walked be the bar the other nite and about seven blacks were outside and of course, they all had something to say. Who's the racist one??
Aug 6, 2009 at 4:39 p.m.
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noname53545, I think thekid3477 was being sarcastic. He can address it himself, but he, like many here, know that alcohol is trouble. Alcohol is a legal substance, but creates huge society problems. Marijuana, on the other hand, is illegal and has many societal benefits.
forgive me for speaking for you, kid...
Aug 5, 2009 at 6:10 p.m.
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And honestly, I would NEVER go to a bar with a "head of security" that looked like that. See the pic where he is sitting on a stool at the door? Nice!
Aug 5, 2009 at 4:55 p.m.
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You mix alcohol with certain music and have people like THAT as security and you don't expect violence? Wow... I want what they are on.
Aug 5, 2009 at 2:48 p.m.
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dont worry KId I am sure the weed is in the bar too in case you havent been in a bar lately they smoke weed and do coke in the bath room. So dont worry the weed ISNT left out here.
Aug 5, 2009 at 1:54 p.m.
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jstwn"Who exactly is Bob Baldwin who is quoted in this story and what makes him a "diversity specialist"? What the heck kind of a statement is "bias exists...because whites don't have to think about it. "
yes this is stupid.
I walked threw corvina and out the back door- I WAS THE MINORITY and was stared at and felt uncomfortable and left.
Aug 5, 2009 at 1:28 p.m.
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I think those that go there are idiots to, as the gazette fan stated. Your making those that mistreat you get richer and richer, plus you know before they take a fall, your gonna go frist. I remember this bar in beloit that was managed by a white man, that hated blacks, and mistreated them whenever given the chance, but the blacks just kept pileing up in there. I think your all stupid. You know she's prejudice.
Aug 5, 2009 at 1:17 p.m.
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Accountability shot right out the door again. Cracks me up. Reminds me of our new Government. Blame it on something else. Face it folks. Quotes and Corvinas are dumps that attract a poor crowd that doesn't know how to control themselves. It's pretty simple. There's many people that have a good time at other well run establishments without causing problems.
Aug 5, 2009 at 1:11 p.m.
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noname your crazy. its a LEGAL DRUG...how could it ever cause problems??
Aug 5, 2009 at 12:54 p.m.
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If I was going into a bar that I wanted to have a drink in and socialize. I would have to turn around and find another one if the place I was wondering into frisked me and used a metal detector. That alone would be enough evidence that the bar is for losers.
Aug 5, 2009 at 8 a.m.
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Joker - Again, read my posts. They state the truth, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. My response came to you after you stereotyped everyone as racist, so who is the ignorant one? Again, you have no idea what you're talking about and you should take some lessons from justthatguy. Someone that actually knows the truth. Let me guess, you know more about DJ's than him too right? You have sources in the DJ world?
Aug 5, 2009 at 7:48 a.m.
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people: listen to justthatguy...he knows what he's talking about, his post is spot on.
Aug 4, 2009 at 10:53 p.m.
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/facepalm
Aug 4, 2009 at 10:34 p.m.
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I laugh once again at the direction this board has taken. All the haters and negative people come out and trash anyone who does not share their opinion, beliefs and in this particular case, share the same skin. You trash talkers are as predictable as a 5 year old. When you have nothing to say or know that you are getting beaten, you attack with your mean spirited and bigoted words.
Leo, the next time you post something on this board, try to have a point. And for you, Sparky, I doubt you know what is really going on. And, trust me, I do know what is going on. So you can post all you want how ignorant I am and attack me with lies and hate. Face it, the truth hurts and you know it.
Aug 4, 2009 at 9:37 p.m.
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come on folks let's play nice..too much name calling going on..it's sounds very difficult to run a bar nowadays..let's hope they all can resolve the problems.. peace out..
Aug 4, 2009 at 9:32 p.m.
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I have just finished reading all the blogs up to 9PM. Janesville is a very good town-the bad element you speak to- is recent. The bars should be closed. Solved that problem! Employees can work at Sears or JC Penney if their dress is appropriate.
Aug 4, 2009 at 8:32 p.m.
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Joker-A/K/A trying to defend an obnoxious bar. Your posts about the KKK just show how backwards you are...as if your other babble wasn't enough. Why are you so upset over a bar being called on having the same standards as any other bar in this city. I guess because it hits too close to home. Shocker.
Aug 4, 2009 at 8:23 p.m.
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FYI Joker, Like you always like to blurt out, I myself know for a FACT from many local law enforcement (my sources) what is really going on. I also am a big supporter of local businesses and have a very good connection to many local business owners. Proof again, that you are beyond ignorant and a wanna be know it all.
Aug 4, 2009 at 8:15 p.m.
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Joker - Do you seriously realize how stupid you sound when you post? Do you realize nobody likes you one these posts? I was just curious if you were aware of the situation. How in the hell do you have any idea what where I spend my money? Oh, that's right, you don't. You have no clue what you're talking about if you think these two places don't invite their own trouble. This has nothing to do with racism. Do you even realize that all the crap you spew on here never really happens? Are you living in Willy Wonka land?
Aug 4, 2009 at 8 p.m.
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Ok Being a DJ in this area and working at a few bars I know what the hip hop crowd brings. It can bring in a bad element hip hop and rap are a foundation a gang activity. I love hip hop and rap i love playing it. BUT it can create problems. Thats when dress codes and security address the problem at the door! Do not address it on the floor. Its already to late when you let that bad element in. It is up to security and the bar owner to create a atmospere that is safe for all patrons. It is not just minorities, it is all races. The urban fasion is undesirable in a bar or club. So fellas and women pull up your damn pants n tuck in you shirts. Your an adult act like one. Another thing that brews up a fight is the FACT that is almost always has to do with a woman. So guys shes messin around drop her you dont need her. Ladies do the same. They are just not worth fighting over if they are not true to you.
Aug 4, 2009 at 7:55 p.m.
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Leo, you have nothing important to say so please go to your Klan meeting and burn a cross. I pray that someday you will see the light.
Aug 4, 2009 at 7:30 p.m.
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Gee, Joker--that would be the PROBLEM..law abiders aren't going there, people causing problems ARE. What do you not get about that. Your too dense to get it..so just keep posting your blogs and not really thinking it through. DUH.
Aug 4, 2009 at 7:27 p.m.
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How do you know the owner is not trying to fix the problems? I think she is trying. Yet, you and the other pointy heads are quick to judge and playing to the racist fears of the citizens of Janesville. What gave you the right to tell people where they should go for a drink? Or prevent other law abiding people from going to the Corvina?
Aug 4, 2009 at 7:01 p.m.
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Joker-again, your posts are JOKES. Again you avoid the questions and your replies are ignorant. This bar is in trouble because the OWNER isn't resolving the issues. It isn't because of card games or clothing. I can see why you hang out there. I spend most of my money locally and have been there. Choose not to go back..it is nasty.
Aug 4, 2009 at 6:11 p.m.
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These joints need to hire the "Witches of Stockbridge" as bouncers ( the 3 that glued the junk of the cheating fool)...those beasts would settle down any gangbanger-wanna-be punks with no problem...just one look would scare anybody into behaving!
Aug 4, 2009 at 5:43 p.m.
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Good grief...............
Aug 4, 2009 at 5:25 p.m.
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This matter is about continual violent behavior.
Aug 4, 2009 at 5:08 p.m.
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Spark and Leo, yes, I have been to both establishments and have been there more than twice. Unlike you, I try to spend my money locally and help my fellow business people. I have never had a problem nor have I ever seen a problem at these places. I do know for a fact that more attention is being given to these places because of the color of the skin of the patrons and the type of music that is being played. The police admit this and are stepping up patrols near the bars when they have a certain theme night or disc jockey performing.
Face it, people and the police get nervous when they see a group of black men hanging out in front of Corvina's or Quotes the bar parking lots. If white men were hanging out at the same places, there would be no issue.
Leo, I have more creditability in my little finger than you would ever have. This whole thing is blown out of proportion. Fights, disorderly conduct, drug use, gambling(Texas hold em, bar dice, electronic slot machines, meat raffles, Superbowl pools), underage drinking-all ILLEGAL activities go on every day and night throughout bars and taverns in Janesville and Rock County. Where is the articles about this? There is hardly any mention because this happens everyday and the people involved are white.
Aug 4, 2009 at 4:47 p.m.
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FYI - There's nothing to discuss with you on the subject of pot. I've made my point and opinion very clear to others below about what I think of THIS STORY AND TOPIC without veering off topic. Oh, and I've been to many establishments that never have problems like these and alcohol is present. It's all about the people you let in and the people that can handle themselves.
Aug 4, 2009 at 4:44 p.m.
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kid- Story isn't about pot and I don't care that you smoke it. Man-crush? Good one. No, I just wanted to point out the obvious because some of you seem to have a difficult time staying on topic. Nobody cares what you do with your life. Don't take things so personally.
Aug 4, 2009 at 4:40 p.m.
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mr spark. i apologize. i thought i read something in there about me smoking pot. but since i did not and you so graciously took the time to point it out i will not post on anything unless it has to do with me or pot.
...or i will just continue to do what i do regardless of what you think or say. this story is about bars in this town that serve a LEGAL MAN MADE POISON and the VIOLENCE that surrounds it. how much violence do you ever see related to a marijuana story?? im not saying it doesnt happen, but its a REOCCURRING THEME with alcohol. the LARGE MAJORITY of pot storys we debate on are about arrests for possession or cultivation of marijuana. not the consumption. not for actions after smoking. possessing or growing a flipping plant. keep pot illegal. fine. but then make alcohol illegal again. THERE IS NOT ONE LOGICAL REASON WHY ITS OK FOR SOMEONE TO GET DRUNK ON ALCOHOL BUT NOT HIGH ON MARIJUANA. NOT ONE.
so in summation mr spark, i think its funny you keep saying you wont discuss this with me while continuing to comment on my posts, sounds like someone may have a man-crush??;) i will continue to highlight the hypocrisy of our current drug laws on ANY story i want. you no likey, you clicky on remove post. otherwise enjoy the rants....
Aug 4, 2009 at 4:33 p.m.
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JimPI - Great post. You nailed it with that one.
Aug 4, 2009 at 4:28 p.m.
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Joke(r)-I get the screenname. You post obnoxious blogs to get people going and then you don't respond with anything intelligent. You only post to get a reaction. I thought I might get a response from you, but you don't respond to questions because you don't have any answers. Only more ignorant posts. You have no credibility.
Aug 4, 2009 at 4:19 p.m.
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Personally, I think the staff of any given tavern should reflect the type of customers they wish to serve. By that, I mean if your head of security is an overweight man dressed in a muscle shirt and shorts, tats running up and down his arms, well then I guess you're not looking to attract working class folks looking to toss back a few on a Saturday night with their friends.
If I'm out looking for some place to hang out for a few hours on a Friday or Saturday night, I'm not going to stop at a place where there's a caveman standing at the door frisking people.
On the other hand, if security is dressed in matching polos and slacks, they are polite and well-groomed, well I might feel right at ease playing a bit of pool and listening to some tunes.
I've worked security in some pretty rough areas. I know what it is like dealing with riff raff. Standing there trying to look like you're a bad dude doesn't get you very far with the people that are really going to cause trouble.
Don't get me wrong, I give credit to any bar owner who is at least taking measures to try and curtail a bad element. I just wonder how many of these security guys have just seen too many movies. They've probably worn out three copies of Roadhouse.
As for the baggy clothes just being an individual's choice on how to express themselves, I guess I understand. I mean, back in the 80s, we were all wearing acid washed jeans so tight you could tell what religion we were, with unlaced white high tops and jean jackets. Looking back on it, we looked pretty goofy. But, I'll tell you what. We never had to hold up our pants when we walked either.
Aug 4, 2009 at 4:18 p.m.
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I seem to remember not too long ago the back bar was owned by someone else and it catered to the R&B crowd. They had a dress code and metal detectors at the door and the patrons were primarily black. A group of friends and I went there not knowing the ownership had changed and were a bit overwhelmed at first but it turned out to be one of the more enjoyable bars I have been to.
I think the problem with Corvinas is the location. People go from bar to bar all night and end up there when they are already tanked. It has NOTHING to do with what race goes there or what music they play. It all boils down to ALCOHOL!!! DUH!
Aug 4, 2009 at 4:08 p.m.
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The joker you are a tool This is not an original thought.
"Wow, the racist rants continue. If Corvina's was filled with white people and had hip hop music, you pointy heads would have no problem with it. But when you get Latino or Black patrons coming to the bar to enjoy themselves, everyone one wants to put their hoods on, grab their torches and clamor for the bar to be shutdown! I thought we ran that fool Ken Peterson out of town. Intolerance and hate is alive and well in Janesville."
Turn off your computer and leave the debates to the adults. I honestly believe that your IQ is not even close enough to argue the race card here.
Aug 4, 2009 at 3:43 p.m.
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" It is called the KKK and they still lynch black people. Less than 50 years ago they killed 4 black little girls in a church. Can you name all the black newscasters on the nightly news? You should probably stop talking because you sound very stupid."
Speaking of sounding stupid.
So, what you're saying is that the Klan is active in Janesville, lynching people and so forth?
Just for your edification, the last proven Klan lynching occurred in 1961, and the largest mass-lynching ever committed in the U.S.A. was that of eleven Italo-Americans.
As for four little girls killed in the church bombings, truly deplorable. Now, how about all the innocent victims, male and female, of gang violence? Oh-that's different, right? Enforcing your right to sell poison to your own community by force of arms isn't hate, is it?
Black newscasters? Nationwide, I'd bet the percentage is actually higher than the percentage of Blacks in the general population.
Studies notwithstanding, ijs makes a very valid point.
It's Black Power! Viva la Raza! White Pride! Which slogan is racist? OF course, only White Pride.
Should someone organize a Miss White Universe Pageant, I should imagine it would be well received, wouldn't it?
Aug 4, 2009 at 3:42 p.m.
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Joker-Can you answer my question? Because the owner of this bar cannot keep it under control..how does that make this a racist issue?? I bet you can't answer it, because your wrong.
Aug 4, 2009 at 3:37 p.m.
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TheJoker - Have you ever been in either of these establishments? Or are you basing your opinion solely on two bar owners that sound like the racist ones because they are tired of getting in trouble (not harassed)? Quotes has just as many white people and they have caused just as many problems. Has nothing to do with it. The point is, if you're going to operate a public establishment, you better learn how to control your clients and crowds. If you have people getting stabbed, knocked out, put in comas, etc., expect to have the law come and expect them to do their job. You don't want problems with the law, learn how to control your adult daycare.
Aug 4, 2009 at 3:30 p.m.
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You want the riffraff out, just charge $0.25 more per bottle of beer. That kept the crap out of the bar I bartended at when I was in college. It worked great and we didn't get the individuals who try and pick fights patronizing the establishment.
Aug 4, 2009 at 3:23 p.m.
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Wow, the racist rants continue. If Corvina's was filled with white people and had hip hop music, you pointy heads would have no problem with it. But when you get Latino or Black patrons coming to the bar to enjoy themselves, everyone one wants to put their hoods on, grab their torches and clamor for the bar to be shutdown! I thought we ran that fool Ken Peterson out of town. Intolerance and hate is alive and well in Janesville.
Aug 4, 2009 at 3:10 p.m.
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"Can a community accommodate...?" Sure, it can accommodate shootings, stabbings, fights, disorderly behavior, police car chases, drive-by shootings. You need only look a little south to Beloit -- it's been "accommodating" more and more of those behaviors for decades! Matter of fact, it's reputation for them is known far and wide!
For your answer, see "the media" bit from Chris Rock's 1992 HBO comedy special "Bring the Pain" -- "boo if ya like, ya know it's the truth," to quote Mr. Rock.
Now let's all sing a few verses of "Frankie & Johnnie"...
Aug 4, 2009 at 2:49 p.m.
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ljs64,
White Entertainment Television = About 90% of the channels on TV.
White History Month = Every month except Black History Month.
Aug 4, 2009 at 2:46 p.m.
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Joker - Are you kidding me? Diverse or not, these types of problems and violence are unacceptable anywhere. Some of you crack me up. Do you know how many bars there are out there rarely have any problems at all? You're going to use these two dumps as an example for everything?
Aug 4, 2009 at 2:46 p.m.
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thekid is already weeded out.
Aug 4, 2009 at 2:43 p.m.
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Biggirl will never answer anyone that calls her out.
Kid, the story has nothing to do with you smoking pot. Sorry. It's about people acting like idiots and not everyone that go's out and not every establishment has these problems. Weed out the bad ones and get rid of them. Start with the two sources of the problem. These two bars.
Aug 4, 2009 at 2:24 p.m.
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The last time I was in the Looking Glass two rednecks wanted to fight me. Not so long ago a guy was put into a coma in front of the Looking Glass. The mall had a guy raping women in the parking lot. Having worked at a biker bar, I can tell you it is all about who you let in. Generally, charging a cover and kicking people out for small infractions is effective. After awhile the bar has a reputation for being safe and women start to come to the establishment and then the men follow.
ljs64 are you this clueless. It is called the KKK and they still lynch black people. Less than 50 years ago they killed 4 black little girls in a church. Can you name all the black newscasters on the nightly news? You should probably stop talking because you sound very stupid. Try reading John Stuart Mill's essay "On Liberty." It talks about how majority groups often see themselves as the victims of minority groups.
Aug 4, 2009 at 1:16 p.m.
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I don't live in Janesville anymore but grew up near by. There is/was a bar like this in the town I now live in. They would feature theme nights, one of which was hip-hop among others. The place soon went to hell. Police were being called 10 times more than any other place in town. Many many warnings were given but they just couldn't control the fights and other "activity". Finally the city council took away the liquor license. Now they are about to go out of business. Can't make it on food alone I guess. These hip-hop places have nothing to do with being racist. It's the people who go there that gives the place a bad name. Usually a violent clientele.
Aug 4, 2009 at 1:08 p.m.
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Raid both od these dumps. Back round checks. Problem solved.
Aug 4, 2009 at 1 p.m.
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Bars typically breed violence. Bars that cater to younger crowds have even more problems, because younger people can't handle liquor and have fewer responsibilities to worry about. I personally think Janesville could do with one or two less bars.
Aug 4, 2009 at 11:48 a.m.
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Anyone who thinks this is about racism is a racist.
Aug 4, 2009 at 11:45 a.m.
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Joker-why is Janesville a racist city because Corvina's has a bad crowd-is known for fights and the police have to get involved?? I don't understand why this bar, being a problem bar that needs to get it's act together has anything to do with racism. Explain that.
Aug 4, 2009 at 11:39 a.m.
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gfan: the downsides are common knowledge
Aug 4, 2009 at 11:38 a.m.
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I look forward to the day I can watch, WET - White Entertainment Television or attend an NAAWP event - National Association for the Advancement of White People or celebrate WHM - White History Month.
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Oh..that will be good times......
Aug 4, 2009 at 11:36 a.m.
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thekid, if you're going to slam alcohol, why don't you list the downsides.
;~)
Aug 4, 2009 at 11:31 a.m.
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a legal man made depressant that causes violence. completely legal for any chimp at 21 to possess and consume. yet im a criminal for possessing a joint. hypocrites.
Aug 4, 2009 at 11:26 a.m.
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"Corvina's has something Quotes doesn't have, a metal detector."
yeah i know of another bar that was proud to have the metal detector... Spankys had one. If you need to have a metal detector you already have problems. Who would want to go to a bar that has to use a metal detector which indicates that they have a lethal weapons problem?
Aug 4, 2009 at 11:04 a.m.
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It's only racist when it's Whites doing the talking, right?
Aug 4, 2009 at 10:58 a.m.
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This article is just another example of how racist and narrow minded Janesville continues to be. Police and the citizens cannot deal with having diversity in our city. No wonder companies are leaving the area!
Aug 4, 2009 at 10:03 a.m.
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Has anyone looked at the demographics of Janesville lately? I can only imagine the minority population makes up less than 15% of all the JVL population(this figure may even be a little high). Hip hop culture exists, but is not welcome in every town. I do not care for the music or the style of dress, but then again, most people my age got rid of their Led Zeppelin albums in the 80's (I did not, however), and my style of dress is generally related to "dope smokling hippies" because I like to wear tye dye clothing. My point is that you can't please everyone all the time, and we have to learn to get along. If you don't like the music or the crowd, don't go there. We are free to make choices and people can choose to do what they want as long as no one is getting hurt. I don't care if my clothes offend anyone; I wear them because I like them. I don't care if Corvina's plays hip hop; I don't go there. Everyone is human- the only race we should ever discuss...
Aug 4, 2009 at 9:56 a.m.
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So, Biggirl, what your saying then is when the police do walk thrus in these bars they're actually not just "walking thru" but in reality they're harrassing and intimidating innocent people? Really?
Aug 4, 2009 at 9:56 a.m.
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biggirl - I'm going out on a limb here, but hypothetically, if you were ever to get robbed or in a car accident, you wouldn't be calling the police???? I assume not. You don't like them ANYWHERE.
Aug 4, 2009 at 9:40 a.m.
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What seems to be the problem?
Janesville is a small town trying to grow into a big city, so there are bound to be frictions between the established culture and any newer cultures.
There is a simple solution. Instead of asking that all adapt and accomodate your culture-whichever it is-adapty yourself to the culture of the community at large.
I know, that's threatening...to give up all the little things that makes you so uniquely...an outsider.
Of course, there is the ultimate statement one can make. I read about how prejudiced it is in Janesville, and how hard it is, and how often people of color have to deal with preconcieved racist notions held by White. Simple.
Move.
You don't like the culture in any particular area, move out to someplace that more closely reflects your ethos.
It's really not about color, or ethnicity, it's all about culture. Deal with it.
Aug 4, 2009 at 9:28 a.m.
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Biggirl-what is your problem with the police? You don't want them around, anywhere, anytime. You must have had a few run ins with them and it didn't go the way you wanted.
Aug 4, 2009 at 9:25 a.m.
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biggirl - When disorderly conduct happens, it becomes public business and police issues. Do you know absolutely anything about the law at all? As nothing to do with race.
Aug 4, 2009 at 9:23 a.m.
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biggirl = clueless.
Aug 4, 2009 at 8:52 a.m.
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And police have a RIGHT to walk into a PUBLIC establishment.
*********
Get a clue biggirl.......
Aug 4, 2009 at 8:40 a.m.
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"Can a community accommodate the entertainment desires of a growing minority population without conflict?"
At what other time in our history could that question be posed? When rock n roll started the aggression came from the people who didn't like rock. There is no doubt as to the source of the aggression in the matter of hip-hop. The story's question dances around its worrisome implicitly.
The answer is: there can be no toleration for an "art form" that either is violent or inspires violence. This is not a matter of diversity. Unless diversity means we have to tolerate a group's violence.
Aug 4, 2009 at 7:43 a.m.
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Once again, race confuses the issue because we discuss sensitivity rather than our basic rights. The police should cease and desist all walk-throughs of any bars. The people have a right to assemble, and they have a right to assemble without being intimidated and harrassed by the police.
Aug 4, 2009 at 7:33 a.m.
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Speaking as someone who lives in Beloit where we have "diversity' We have had nothing but problems with the bars that play hip hop music. Ask any police officer in Beloit what bars have the most problems. I can assure you that its not the bars that cater to country or rock music fans.
Aug 4, 2009 at 7:32 a.m.
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JJackson.....talk to you? I can't hardly understand you! You say you want to be taken seriously and claim you have over 100 college credits? Well then why don't you show it? Proper spelling and grammar do amazing things for earning respect and having people take you and your words seriously.
Aug 4, 2009 at 2:43 a.m.
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"Bias exists, and it exists because whites don't have to think about it. They don't have to think about how their actions affect other people," Baldwin said. "As an African-American man, my presence can affect people, just by the fact that I'm there."
The head of a "Diversity Task Force" gets away with saying something like this?....really?
Aug 4, 2009 at 1:07 a.m.
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Can't imagine why Corvina's is a problem. If one does a CCAP search on Mr. Toles, the "Security Cheif" one encounters a 2 page record. Just the guy I'd put in charge of "security", but I'm sure that was just more profiling on the multitude of agencies that arrested him. The more I read about this Corvina's story and the more I think that Barlass should just keep talking, I think she does more to sink her own ship than JPD could ever do.
Aug 4, 2009 at 12:22 a.m.
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Bob Baldwin is a very nice African-American gentleman that is married to a very nice white lady. He is the head of the "Diversity Task Force" in Rock County. He is a well-known figure among the non-profits, as is his wife, Kate. They are both dedicated and active to reducing alcoholism among teens, racism in our schools, and making Janesville a safer place for children.
Aug 3, 2009 at 11:57 p.m.
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"Who exactly is Bob Baldwin who is quoted in this story and what makes him a "diversity specialist"? "
I think he saw an alien once
Aug 3, 2009 at 11:23 p.m.
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Does anyone know if the police place in their reports any identification of what establishment (if any) a DWI defendent reports he/she just left? Is that data that a Gazette reporter can research for us readers? I would like to know if there is a pattern as to what bars might be "overserving" their customers. When there is a bar fight, all participants involved need to examine their role in it (if any). However, when we are talking about drunken drivers, we sober drivers are usually faultless victims.
Aug 3, 2009 at 10:50 p.m.
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Barlass said she doesn't call police because "there's never been an incident that her staff couldn't handle."
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Hope that quote does not come back to haunt you.
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Barlass said, and a direct quote "I understand what angry, violent music is. I'm not an idiot."
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I really, really hope that quote does not come back to haunt you.
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Take a clue from Steve Copp, the man is honorable. If he tells you JPD wants to work with you, take his advice. It is a lonely world when it hits the fan, you have no allies, and everyone is looking to place the blame.
Aug 3, 2009 at 10 p.m.
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This is deja vu all over again. Janesville history shows that regardless of who the patrons of a bar may be -- black, white, young, old, country, hip hop, whatever -- any bar that generates a lot more police calls than the average bar is asking for scrutiny from the police, and it's good that the police are taking a closer look at this place. People have short memories but Quotes was way out of control when it opened and it was owned by the wife of an assistant district attorney at the time. The police and ALAC cracked down and Denise Carpenter was personally ticketed -- twice (go check CCAP). And Quotes didn't really clean up its act with a dress code or security cameras until after a fight left one of its patrons in a coma with a brain injury just outside the back door and the police and ALAC were really breathing down Quotes' neck. The whole event caused the owner's husband to lose his job as an assistant DA. So when Quotes' owner says she "soon learned" about crowd control, remember that "soon" was only after someone almost died on her doorstep and her husband lost his job.
Now Corvinas is Quotes all over again. A new bar owner with no clue is running a bar with huge numbers of police calls showing the bar is out of control (plus, show me any bar owner who puts a metal detector at the door, says she "needs the place packed" on weekends, but says she can't stop the DJ's music because she's afraid of a riot, and I'll show you a bar owner who has no control of her place). The dangerous thing about this bar is that as long as the owner thinks there's no problem as long as there are no arrests inside, it means she's going to push all the trouble outside. One stabbing incident is already linked to this place. Let's hope it won't take something worse than that before this owner gets a clue.
Aug 3, 2009 at 9:39 p.m.
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The comment made by Mr. Baldwin is rather funny that "white people do not have to think about race issues"...
WHAT??? it is jammed in everyone's YES EVERYONES face every day.
How about those officers who are being scrutinized... not because they are making attempts to "serve and protect" but because of their race.
I do not know the whole story nor do I want to, but as long as we have people making a living exploiting and fueling race issues.... we will have problems.
Aug 3, 2009 at 9:39 p.m.
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JimBeams comments are true ignorance and are the reason Janesville has the reputation it does
Aug 3, 2009 at 8:59 p.m.
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A perspective that seems to be missing from this conservation is how the failure to revitalize Janesville's downtown has contributed to the downtown's status. Despite a few notable exceptions, downtown has become a place where many irresponsible people, often people from other cities, flock to party. The City has failed to invest in the downtown and support businesses catering to families and professionals. The current problems downtown are a direct result of the City's total lack of vision.
Aug 3, 2009 at 8:45 p.m.
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Who exactly is Bob Baldwin who is quoted in this story and what makes him a "diversity specialist"? What the heck kind of a statement is "bias exists...because whites don't have to think about it. They don't have to think about how their actions affect other people."? Wow, I never knew that. What a totally insensitive race we must be, across the board. Thanks for that really deep insight, Mr. Baldwin.
Aug 3, 2009 at 8:42 p.m.
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Hannah- I had also hoped it would be an elegant lounge-type bar. I believe we both live within walking distance and it would be nice for us to have something nice. And, you are correct. I know nothing about the owner whatsoever.
Aug 3, 2009 at 8:18 p.m.
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But I'll bet he has quick feet.
Aug 3, 2009 at 8 p.m.
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I was just making an observation. He's not the reason I will stay home. I understand the physical mobility of people that are of his stature. Thanks for the clarification though.
Aug 3, 2009 at 7:54 p.m.
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That is what I was trying to say below about him not being BEEFY.
Aug 3, 2009 at 7:39 p.m.
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"All I know is that is a big dude at the front door. I think I'll stay home."
That guy is so out of shape I bet he has a hard time even walking. He may look intimidating to a small person but those guy's are usually down pretty quick in any serious scuffle. I just hope he does not get seriously hurt trying to subdue someone that really is a tough guy that knows how to fight.
Aug 3, 2009 at 7:31 p.m.
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ladulce- maaybe you dont know what i know about the owner. You are correct it has nothing to do with the bar crowd. Sorry if you miss understood I thought the crowd was witchy. I have been there when they opened and had high hopes it would be a nice lounge type bar.
Sarahb- i understand people dont dress to please me. I just wont hang around with them just as I wouldnt hang around some smelly unkempt person, or some felon and if I did hang around them and I didnt know they were a felon and I found out - guess what I wouldnt anymore. If I did finally meet somebody that dressed this way and became friends then that is different. If they are not a criminal I have nothing against you. If you are trash of any color I wont hang around with you.
Aug 3, 2009 at 7:18 p.m.
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All I know is that is a big dude at the front door. I think I'll stay home.
Aug 3, 2009 at 7:15 p.m.
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What do you suggest they report on SEL1985? Is there an abundance of things that are newsworthy happening that they are missing?
Aug 3, 2009 at 7:09 p.m.
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JimBeam53548's comment is just openly racist, and I hope the Gazette removes it.
I don't understand why the Gazette has to run stories all the time about race in Janesville and "Look out for the scary Black people"
I can see the legitimacy to this story, but didn't they just run an almost similar story like a week ago? I don't even live in Janesville anymore, and I noticed that. I don't know if Gazette sales are down so much that they have to bring up race to make higher sales?
I'm waiting for the Gazette's story about "The President was really born in Kenya" story...come on Gazette. Let's report some NEWS.
Aug 3, 2009 at 7:09 p.m.
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Also tassbags, commonly know as trashbags, doesnt play country either. They have a VERY diverse crowd in their bar. Especially on weekends. They actually have a lot of asians that probably outnumber the whites there. And again no country music. DJ plays mostly hip hop, stuff the younger patrons like.
Aug 3, 2009 at 7:04 p.m.
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JJackson, Quotes plays a majority of country music? You obviously are speaking on something you know nothing about. The TRUTH is that when they dont have a band, which they only have bands once in a great while, they have a DJ and he plays mostly HIP HOP/RAP/R&B, with some rock thrown in. You may here one country song a night and thats usually save a horse ride a cowboy. But the Hip Hop style music far outplays any other genre.
Aug 3, 2009 at 7 p.m.
Aug 3, 2009 at 6:52 p.m.
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Hannah: Please understand that people do not dress to please you; it's each individual's choice. Also, I am sorry but I have trouble believing that any bar (Quotes in this case) operates under the pretense that they are taking the responsibility of teaching the younger crowd appropriate bar behavior.
Aug 3, 2009 at 6:39 p.m.
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Hannah- WTH? Witchcraft has nothing to do with gangs.... Or, bars..... Or, Ravens... What is the correlation? You obviously have never been to these bars. Neither one is a "scary" as in super-natural, ghost-hunting, white face painting, seance having creepy place. Think more: urban, multi-racial, hip- hop, "funky" and "wild" than scary and creepy....
Aug 3, 2009 at 6:32 p.m.
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I dont like the saggy, baggy look of pants no matter what color you are. It came from the people in jail lost weight when they got out their pants didnt fit. Yeah I want to look like I got out of jail "style". Give me a break. Out that crack away!!!!
and no I dont think you automatically in in a gang I think you look stupid!!
truthteller- I was thinking that too. where are the BEAfFY guys not the obese guys that only look scary. Maybe still in jail lifting weights? When you stop lifting weights all that mussel turns to flab.
Aug 3, 2009 at 6:24 p.m.
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because people who like witch craft would like ravens
Aug 3, 2009 at 5:58 p.m.
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The security guards have records as long as most criminals- is this like having a mouse guard the cheese???
Aug 3, 2009 at 5:54 p.m.
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woodsman: Since you're so street smart, HOW DO A GANGSTER LOOK?
If you really want to see a Gangster, I'll be happy to drop you off in one of Milwaukee's or Chicago's roughest neigborhoods.
It irritates me that whenever someone have on a baggy pants or an oversized shirt,some people automatically think their in a gang. wearing baggy pants and oversized shirts is justa style...THAT'S IT NOTHING MORE NOTHING LESS! You'll be amazed how many people white, black, chinese whatever that has a very good job some that even require wearing suits. But in their off time, they dress in baggy pants and oversized shirts. Don't judge us and call us gangsters just because of the clothes we wear. Take time out of your busy schedule and actually talk to us, see who we really are. I dress like that sometime and I have over 100 college credits on my way to my degree and TWO good paying jobs.
All I'm saying is don't judge a book by it's cover.
Aug 3, 2009 at 5:42 p.m.
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"Can a community accommodate the entertainment desires of a growing minority population without conflict?"
How can they...when you're being watched under a microscope! No matter what this owner does, hiring extra security, installing security cameras, The City of Janesville will still view Corvina as a place that has to close. The City of Janesville Will not admit it but the real reasons behind them wanting to close Corvina has nothing to do with extra security or extra cameras. It's because Corvina plays hip hop and r&b and as a result it attracts African Americans. Janesville doesn't want a spot like this here in it's city...a place where we can go and hang out...Please! But it's ok for bars like Quotes, Taasbags etc. to play country music and metal music and to have their little bar fights here and now. Of course it is, because its an eye for eye, you scratch my back I'll scratch yours. By bars like Quotes, Taasbags and other bars in Janesville playing majority of country / metal, the City of Janesville know that African Americans will not attend those clubs because they're not playing hip hop and R&B. So as long as those bars keep playing that music,African Americans would not come there. What happens at their bars stays at their bars and their problems aren't published in the Newspaper or whatever you call it!
But when these bars need to make a little bit more money, they hurry up and switch the music to hiphop and R&B cause they know they'll get a bigger crowd. So they basically use us to get them extra money then turn us away about a month or two later! It's all politics. if you don't believe me look at Quotes and Taasbags. Both these clubs use to play a lot of hip hop and R&B, not anymore. A couple of months ago, Taasbag's parking lot used to be full on Fridays and Saturdays. I rode past their Friday night and it was only about 10 cars in the parking lot.
But you know what, I'm actually thinking about opening a nightclub up in Janesville and I would like to see them try to close me down!
If you don't like the crowd there...then don't go. It's easy as that. If you're scared, don't go. What's the big problem.
Why is the newspaper steady doing stories about Corvina's?Leave them alone!
.
Aug 3, 2009 at 5:26 p.m.
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I don't know why the name of the bar has any significance, but, is actually of a maritime theme- a fish....
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/c...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionar...
http://www.yourdictionary.com/corvina
Corbin is gaelic for Raven....
http://www.babynamespedia.com/meaning/Co...
http://jas.wondertime.go.com/babynamer?p...
Again, not sure why it matters, but, just an FYI.
Aug 3, 2009 at 5:14 p.m.
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here we go again. Corvinas seems to be a replay of that bar on the other side of the river that was closed down. Think it was called spankys.
Aug 3, 2009 at 5:02 p.m.
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Corvinas mean raven-
Aug 3, 2009 at 4:59 p.m.
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good points mikki and outdoors. When I go to a bar and the music stops you either leave (W/O causing a riot) or put money in the jukebox!!!! Or listen to others peoples money in the jukebox.
OR it is 245 and you MUST leave.
Aug 3, 2009 at 4:52 p.m.
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Barlass said she had to wait until the end of the night to fire the DJs. "If you cut it off, you're going to create a riot. It's kind of a touchy situation," she said.
Nice crowds do not riot over music stopping. Your crowd (not based on race) seems to have violent tendencies....based on your words.
Aug 3, 2009 at 4:51 p.m.
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If you're THAT afraid of your patrons that you can't fire a DJ before the end of the evening for violating your rules, you have a problem.
Aug 3, 2009 at 4:46 p.m.
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Good idea to post that quote, hannah.
"Can a community accommodate the entertainment desires of a growing minority population without conflict?"
At what other time in our history could that question be posed? When rock n roll started the aggression came from the people who didn't like rock. There is no doubt as to the source of the aggression in the matter of hip-hop. The story's question dances around its worrisome implicitly.
The answer is: there can be no toleration for an "art form" that either is violent or inspires violence. This is not a matter of diversity. Unless diversity means we have to tolerate a group's violence.
Aug 3, 2009 at 4:40 p.m.
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" April incident when Corvina's was under different ownership"
this is an interesting commnet. Janelle has always been involved in corvinas. They LEASE this space from people that owned the hill top. I cannot believe they havent YANKED the lease.
Aug 3, 2009 at 4:32 p.m.
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Talk about dress code: Take a look at that bouncer,he looks gangster to me. + SOME!!
Aug 3, 2009 at 4:31 p.m.
Aug 3, 2009 at 4:30 p.m.
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"Police believe the suspect, who was 20 and not legally allowed to drink, was served at Corvina's earlier in the evening."
I see they have this correct this time. THe story about this said a 20 year old was stabbed.
Aug 3, 2009 at 4:22 p.m.
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"Can a community accommodate the entertainment desires of a growing minority population without conflict?'
seems it cannot when people keep causing trouble there. DUH
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