Bat scare minimal compared to bill

By GINA DUWE ( Contact )   Friday, Aug. 28, 2009
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— A bat's short flight around the Galindo-Doucette home May 28 led to about $18,000 in medical bills.

No family members had direct, known contact with the bat, but rabies vaccinations for three people caused a mountain of stress when the family's insurance carrier initially refused to pay.

"We thought we had decent insurance," said Evelyn Galindo-Doucette, a Spanish teacher in the Janesville School District. "Somehow, prices have gotten so inflated that if you happen to get charged for something because of a loophole in your insurance, you could be done. You're one step from bankruptcy."

She said her experience shows how health care doesn't seem like a crisis until you face it—even when you have good insurance.

Galindo-Doucette wants to make people aware of the vaccine's cost and how to possibly avoid the bill. In retrospect, the family would have captured the bat and had it tested for rabies, possibly eliminating the need for the vaccinations, she said.

Data collected by the Wisconsin Hospital Association Information Center shows nearly 600 records of rabies vaccination cases among the about 150 hospital emergency rooms in the state in the last four quarters.

The average charge for initial rabies care, including emergency-room visit and first dose of vaccine, was about $2,400, said Joe Kachelsi, vice president of the WHA Information Center.

Dr. Keith Konkol, infectious disease physician at Mercy Hospital, said several factors go into the cost of the vaccine, though it is relatively expensive compared to other vaccines.

"No matter where you go, it's going to be expensive," he said.

The vaccine likely has a higher cost to develop and recent worldwide shortages also have probably made it more expensive, he said. In addition to the vaccine costs, hospital bills include the medical professionals' charges, emergency room/clinic charges and other costs, he said.

Konkol estimates three to five patients are seen per year at Mercy needing the post-exposure rabies vaccine.

How it happened

Evelyn and her husband, Chuck, were watching TV on the couch when she saw a bat swooping in from the dining room toward her.

"Get it outta here!" the couple exclaimed as the situation turned slightly chaotic in just a few seconds.

The bat took a short flight around the upstairs, where the couple's kids, Ernesto, 4, and Lilli, 2, were sleeping behind closed doors. Chuck got the bat outside through an open door.

Then they wondered how the bat got in and how long it had been around. The previous day they had read in the newspaper that two bats from Rock County have tested positive for rabies.

The next morning, the family headed to Mercy Hospital's emergency room, where a doctor determined that no one had bat-related marks but recommended the family be vaccinated.

Once symptoms develop, it's too late to treat rabies, and it likely will be deadly, she said.

Chuck decided he'd take the risk, but Evelyn and the kids started the five-dose series of the vaccine, plus the initial rabies immune globulin, she said.

Then came the bill: $9,000 for the initial emergency room visit and a total of $18,000 including the four additional clinic visits for the remainder of the vaccines. But their insurance doesn't cover rabies vaccinations, she said.

Insurance eventually agreed to pay after the vaccine was considered treatment because the case started in the ER, said Evelyn, who is on sabbatical while she earns her master's degree.

"I don't even know how we would manage it," she said. "One random thing, a bat decides to fly into your house, and $18,000 later … "

The irony is that Evelyn originally is from El Salvador, a third-world country and one of the poorest in Central America. Yet family members there told her the equivalent vaccines would be available for just hundreds of dollars.

The experience has sparked more interest for her in the national debate on health care reform, she said.

Socialized health care in El Salvador allows even the poorest people to receive treatment, even though they might wait, she said.

She's happy she didn't know the cost of the vaccine at the time because she would resent having to make a potentially life or death decision for her kids, she said.

"It's kind of an awful decision to make—once you develop it, you're dead."

When is a rabies vaccine needed?

The rabies vaccine is offered in two ways: pre-exposure and post-exposure.

The pre-exposure vaccine is given in three doses for people traveling to certain countries or to people in a high-risk occupation, officials at the Rock County Health Department said. High-risk occupational settings include a humane society, veterinary clinic, animal rehabilitation center or Department of Natural Resources, officials said.

The three-dose, pre-exposure series is available at the health department for $165.

The post-exposure vaccine is given in five doses, along with the rabies immune globulin. A person who has been bitten or exposed to a possible rabid animal needs the vaccine.

The health department refers those people to medical providers and does not offer the vaccine to them.

If you haven't been exposed, and you're not in a high-risk setting, you don't get the vaccine, officials said.

The cost shouldn't dissuade someone from getting the vaccine because rabies is fatal, said Adam Elmer, a sanitarian at the health department.

"If someone shows signs of rabies, it's too late to get the vaccine," he said.

But you may not know for sure if you've had a rabies exposure, said Dr. Keith Konkol, infectious disease physician at Mercy Hospital, who points to the Center for Disease Control recommendations. It doesn't mean there has to be a documented bite or scratch, especially with bats, he said.

"If you wake up in the morning with a bat flying around the house, there's no way to know if you were exposed," he said.

Bats have small, sharp teeth and one could bite a young child and we might not even be aware of it, he said.

Prevention

The main animals in Wisconsin to be concerned about are bats, raccoons and foxes, Konkol said.

If a possible rabies exposure occurs with such an animal and you have access to it, kill it—just don't crush the skull/brain—and contact the health department, he said. The animal can be sent to a state lab to determine if it is rabid. If it's not rabid, you don't need the vaccine.

Other animals such as dogs and cats should be immunized, and the health department reminds pet owners to keep pet vaccinations updated.

reader COMMENTS
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(79)
JoeSchmo
Sep 1, 2009 at 9:20 p.m.
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My problem is that you state everything as if it is fact. Like you know everything. I too know how to read, and do so on a daily basis. I do have a job and a family to take care of, so unfortunately I can not spend all of my time reading about neurons just so I can tell people about it so I look like a genius.

JCK
Aug 31, 2009 at 2:55 p.m.
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We had a bat in the house recently. It took three swings with my daughter's Wilson tennis racket. End of crisis.

Sandman
Aug 31, 2009 at 7:58 a.m.
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What a silly story, and a poor decision!

Why should insurance pay for shots when no one was bit or even really exposed to one bat that was briefly in the house? This was a voluntary shot series, and the cost should be born by the parents who made the choice for their entire family to get the series.

This is EXACTLY why insurance costs are high, and EXACTLY what insurance shouldn't cover!

Thankfully a raccoon didn't wander through their yard and a skunk wasn't hanging out around their porch and a opossum didn't overnight in their garage and a deer didn't nibble at their garden, and don't forget avian and swine flu and ebola and equine encephalitis the enterobacteria Yersinia pestis and lions and tigers and bears...

Shopierehuh
Aug 30, 2009 at 3:26 p.m.
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So janesvillean, would you consider yourself even smarter and more knowledgeable than joker?

janesvillean
Aug 30, 2009 at 2:10 p.m.
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JoeSchmo: Why can't someone know a lot about a lot of different things? Are you threatened just because I've spent my life reading newspapers, magazines, textbooks, and scientific articles? This is something that anyone can do, and I recommend it. And you know that if I don't know anything about something that comes up, my first impulse is to read everything I can about it. Last night I learned about a particular type of neuron that has only recently (1999+) been determined to be a recent evolutionary development in certain higher animals (humans, great apes, cetaceans, elephants) that have notable social organization. I did not know that, but now I do. It's not magic.
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Truth, the cat is fine -- the outcome of the bat test was that it was rabies-free. Whew. If an animal is exposed it is destroyed or put under a strict six-month quarantine. There is no post-exposure treatment (whether the animal was previously vaccinated or not), as with humans.
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DiGriz, it's free to have a bat carcass tested for rabies, and I would recommend it since your animal was exposed. If you're sure that there has been no exposure, sure, open a window and let the thing fly out. But if I had a family (or beloved pet) I wouldn't put my self-satisfaction above their health.

justaguy
Aug 30, 2009 at 1:52 a.m.
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vatoloco: you said it was a joke?

vatoloco
Aug 30, 2009 at 1:09 a.m.
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Digriz- Este asunto es serio. Esto no es un chiste.

justaguy
Aug 29, 2009 at 11:47 p.m.
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egalindo: I'm sorry for the scare you had but your sounding more like a pitchman for obama's health care plan then anything else. About 4 yrs ago I also had a bat flying around in my house and other than it scaring the crap out of my son's parakeet, after getting it out of the house everyone was fine, I was within inches of this bat but to go get health care for that reason would just make no sense, if it would have bit me different story. I'm sure it wouldn't take you long to find a horror story about other countries health care systems either, you really think they have a perfect score when it comes to their health care? We need to worry about the health care in the USA, I have never ever had a problem with mine, please tell me ... did your insurance company end up paying your bill?

egalindo
Aug 29, 2009 at 11:06 p.m.
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I thought I'd share a Gazette article from 2007 stating that the CEO of Mercy salary in 2002 was 14.4 million, up from $106,000 in 1990 http://www.gazetteextra.com/mercy_pay041...
If my $18,000.00 bill isn't a wake up call-I hope that the CEO's pay raise is like granite to the temporal lobe. I'm sure other communities have CEO's making similar salaries and squeezing their own communities dry. It's just not right, actually it's inhumane to keep people on the edge of their seats hoping and praying that they'll have enough money to care for themselves and their families if something goes wrong. Don't let the details of my particular case cloud the fact that for many people in this community, if they or their children needed a certain medical treatment, the cost could very likely destroy their economic stability. That should not be--it doesn't need to be that way and other countries with socialized medical systems prove that day after day.

justaguy
Aug 29, 2009 at 8:16 p.m.
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ihateyoumorons: I will agree with you that we do need to fix what we have now, But obama's bandaid is not what we need. I think with his "plan/no real plan" it would only get worse. He needs to get something together that we can see, read. He should take his health care "plan" back to the table and think on it some more rather then try to shove it thru as fast as he can. I mean would it really hurt to wait a bit longer, I mean really?

IHateYouMorons
Aug 29, 2009 at 8:07 p.m.
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1) @JoeSchmoe: It's irrelevant whether the ER doc is more knowledgeable than the people here. You or anyone here might be an MD! It's certainly plausible! But it's irrelevant because that ER doctor's professional opinion was respected by the family and they followed his recommendation. Absolutely no MD I know will go and say that ER Doc was "wrong", his opinion is and was respected as it should be. It's possible, yes it's possible that another MD might not have recommended vaccinations for this case (but it's highly, highly unlikely) but NO OTHER MD is going to say this doctor at the ER was 'wrong'. Particularly when it comes to infants and toddlers, doctors will always err on the side of caution.
2) @justaguy: My post on health care reform was not related to Obama's initiative. Not strictly at least. The current system is broken and -will- overwhelm the federal budget soon. Politics and ideologies aside, reform is needed on the most practical of levels because the current system will not be affordable for the government in a few short years.
3) Bored now and leaving forever (unless someone says something outrageously dumb or insulting to the family in this article again). I see the Gazette staff is removing my more 'scathing' criticisms, I apologize for inconveniencing any of you journalist peeps ;-).

justaguy
Aug 29, 2009 at 8:03 p.m.
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I'm talking about the story not the post, the post/blog could be from anyone ... this is the internet. I'm sure this did happen but did her insurance company pay her bill? I always get a invoice in the mail from my health care provider saying "this is not a bill" and i'm glad after seeing the cost but it does get paid, i'm guessing her's did also. So what i'm wondering is why is this story in the paper now as we speak of obama's health care plan in the media? smell kinda fishy to anyone else?

IHateYouMorons
Aug 29, 2009 at 7:48 p.m.
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@justaguy: This isn't a scare plot by the democrats. The mother herself posted in this thread just today.

justaguy
Aug 29, 2009 at 7:48 p.m.
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realitybites: and what is it you think urgent care will say? Your story is just as much a spin on health care as anyone elses. My girlfriend's case is just a sample of what we would have if we let obama change what we have now "and I don't care who wrote it up" did I say he wrote "his" health care plan himself? No. That's the problem, he most likely hasn't even read it .... go figure.

JoeSchmo
Aug 29, 2009 at 7:31 p.m.
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janesvillean-
Who are you and how do you know so much about everything? Why is it that you seem to be an expert on every single subject that is written about in the gazette? I don't get it. Are you just that smart? Or do you look up everything before you comment just so you seem smart? I've always wondered. And, by the way, the rabies post exposure vaccine is the most painful vaccine I have ever received. It actually made me nauseous and pass out in the doctors office, and I have never passed out before, and am not afraid of blood, needles, or pain.
Ihateyoumorons-
You do not know who I am, and very likely don't know most of the other commenters. So do not state that the ER doc at Mercy is far more knowledgeable than anyone here.

reality_bites
Aug 29, 2009 at 7:25 p.m.
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@justaguy: Do you think Obama sat down and penned the healthcare bill himself? Come on. His lawyers, advisors, ect. wrote it. Have your girlfriend go to the urgent care if you think it's serious. As far as waiting a little over a month to see a doctor, please, that's no time at all. If it's Mercy, from my experience, I would be amazed if I could see a doctor in just a tad over a month. Believe what you will about socialized healthcare, I have experienced it firsthand and do not have to take all of the lies and the spin that comes from the media about how bad it is. Also, as I said before, we already have a backdoor socialized system and we're paying through the noses for it.

justaguy
Aug 29, 2009 at 7:05 p.m.
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My girlfriend lost her job earlyer this year and her insurance, 5 yrs ago she had skin cancer, the deadly kind. The first week in august I noticed dark moles on her back, she was scared ... I told her to call a government run health center. Her pride told her not to but I told her her tax dollars she paid in paid for the plan so she called. This was in the first week of august but her first appt. is sept 14th, do you think that is fast help for something that can kill you? If this was me and I called my Dr. using my work place insurance do you think i'd have to wait that long to get looked at? ... No. Over the past 17 yrs at my job i've never had a hard time getting in to see my Dr. I'm willing to bet that would change if we let obama get his hands on health care, he has no idea how to run health care, he may have good thoughts but I don't want to take a chance with "good thoughts" ... he needs to get a plan first, then a vote yes.

justaguy
Aug 29, 2009 at 6:35 p.m.
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ihateyoumorons: but as of yet we don't know if obama's plan "whatever that may be" will still stop bankruptcy cases over medical reasons, we have no idea what is in his plan. How can anyone say his plan will stop or cure what is wrong with the health system we have now? Sure it is a wreck as it is but why change it if we don't know it will get fixed? Would you buy a used car without a test drive first? This story may be true but it's just funny how it smells of a Dem. scare plot .... my thought.

reality_bites
Aug 29, 2009 at 6:34 p.m.
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@ihateyoumorons My thoughts exactly. No one thinks this could happen to them until it does. This example happens to be a rabies scare, but it could really be anything. All of the scare tactics are the Republican "don't let the government get between you and your doctor" BS. There are plenty of people between you and your doctor now and all of them have their hands in your wallet. I was stationed overseas for three years with the Army and can tell you that the European system works. It works well, plus people have a much better quality of life there. The US has much to learn from our peers across the Atlantic...please no BS about my being unpatriotic and such. That's a smokescreen and besides as I said I served in the military 6 years total with 3 of them overseas so...

IHateYouMorons
Aug 29, 2009 at 5:49 p.m.
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@justaguy: Actually only the first part of my response was directed at you. The rest was aimed at everyone else in this thread.

IHateYouMorons
Aug 29, 2009 at 5:48 p.m.
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@justaguy: ""Somehow, prices have gotten so inflated that if you happen to get charged for something because of a loophole in your insurance, you could be done. You're one step from bankruptcy." Where this can be true it sounds more like a dems. move to scare people into obama's health care plan .... my thought."

1) Whether you agree with the administration's health care reform proposal or not, Mrs. Galindo's statement here is ABSOLUTELY true. Medical debt constitutes 60% of the bankruptcy filings in the U.S.
2) Regardless of what side of the fence anyone is on, health care reform of some kind is mandatory. In ten years spending on Medicare alone will be at 1 trillion dollars (930 billion to be exact). That's just one part of the health care platform in this country. Rich as the U.S. is, the federal budget will NOT be able to sustain the costs of the current system for much longer.
3) People on this thread have a ridiculous, insane, and masochistic habit of blaming the victim. "Oh the family shouldn't have gotten those vaccinations in the first place, it's their own fault!". The issue is the COST incurred from the rabies vaccination.
4) This is a microcosm of what happens to thousands of people -every- day. They dodged a bullet but how many families don't? People -are- one serious illness away from bankruptcy, it's not hyperbole, it happens all the time.
5) This affects each and every single one of you and it will continue to affect you the older and frailer you become. This isn't drama, this isn't an exaggeration. Recognize that millions of people are floundering because of this system even as I waste my time writing this comment. Let external ideologies blind you and in the end you're the only one it'll hurt. Well, you and everyone else in the nation.

Truth
Aug 29, 2009 at 5:38 p.m.
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This is all fine and well, but WHAT HAPPENED TO JANESVILLIAN'S CAT?

justaguy
Aug 29, 2009 at 4:09 p.m.
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sarahb1: There in no health care plan yet, would you pay big money for a box without knowing what's in that box? if so let me know ... I have a few empty boxes i'll sell you :-)

SarahB1
Aug 29, 2009 at 3:55 p.m.
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justaguy: How can you "not agree with Obama's plan" if, as you stated, "no one even knows what's in it yet"?

justaguy
Aug 29, 2009 at 3:38 p.m.
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janesvillean: Then it sounds more like we need to get all the insurance companies in check rather than change the whole health care system. Tax payers will still get charged for non working people who need medical help, i'm all for helping people who don't have insurance " we all are now anyways" but I don't agree with obama's "plan"? that no one even knows what's in it yet .... my thought.

janesvillean
Aug 29, 2009 at 3:18 p.m.
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egalindo, thanks for commenting on this very personal matter. I can say I know what you were going through!
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As noted, it is not that this vaccine is by itself tremendously expensive. The cost is a factor of our screwed up private insurance system balanced against the need for hospitals to care for those with no insurance at all. Thus, the price billed to a private insurer is inflated. When an indigent patient is billed they will often be able to negotiate a lower cost with the hospital.
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But this itself is unfair and untransparent. When you have a single-payer system with universal coverage, everyone pays the same, and it's closer to the actual costs.

IHateYouMorons
Aug 29, 2009 at 2:16 p.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
IHateYouMorons
Aug 29, 2009 at 2:07 p.m.
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@bullysarebest: "Okay, yes, the doctor probably does have to tell you to have the shots to cover his own butt. That doesn't mean you have to do it. With all the hoopla over vaccinations, I really wonder about giving babies, children shots that arent' necessary!"

1) Do you have children? Do you take them to the doctor? Some people actually listen to their doctors' recommendations and don't become self-medicating Michael Jacksons. The mother herself said it best, ignoring the doctor's recommendation would have been utterly and completely neglectful. When you have children you always err on the side of caution.

IHateYouMorons
Aug 29, 2009 at 2:04 p.m.
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@Woody: You wonder what my other identity was before I changed it to insult you? Why in god's name would I have another identity and post here on a regular basis? Don't be silly, I came here specifically to insult you and anyone else who slanders this family.

IHateYouMorons
Aug 29, 2009 at 2:01 p.m.
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@bullysarebest:
1) Thanks for the compliment on the name!
2) Anyone who's at risk for rabies exposure can be vaccinated if they so choose. With children in your home however any doctor will -immediately- recommend vaccination.
3) Regarding the 'scumpond', someone has to create an account and lay it out for these people. I could ignore it and let them continue braying like asses but that just wouldn't be proper.

IHateYouMorons
Aug 29, 2009 at 1:49 p.m.
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@SuperDave hater said: "CDC recommends vaccinations for children no matter how minimal the risk of rabies exposure is". Think about that statement. That means shots for children with ZERO exposure risk. Shots for ALL children???? That is just ridiculous."

Rock County had a problem with rabid bats in the time period of this event. There was a bat in their house which, as the mother was kind enough to point out in this very thread, they had no idea how long it had been there. There IS a potential rabies exposure there. Improbable? Yes, but the probability is irrelevant. SOP in that instance is for the children in particular to be vaccinated.

bullysarebest
Aug 29, 2009 at 1:07 p.m.
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Ahhh and we get to the crux of it all---socialized healthcare. blech

mentor397
Aug 29, 2009 at 12:51 p.m.
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On the other hand, I think I have to agree with the family. Though I would not have gone to the doctor myself, once there I would have done whatever the doctor suggested, regardless - simply because I'm more afraid of doctors than I am of bats.

reality_bites
Aug 29, 2009 at 12:51 p.m.
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SuperDave...it is obvious that you only read the internet article and didn't get to see the picture of Chuck's life partner. She's HOT! Plus she's getting a Masters degree, so brains and beauty too! I don't know what this fella looks like or what he did to snare this little beauty, but congrats to him! About the kids getting the shots...the fatality rate for rabies once symptoms start is statistically 100%. So you have to be REALLY sure you know exactly how long the bat was in the house and exactly where i house it has been. Unfortunately with rabies there are no do overs. People who are complaining about the mother's decisions or the doctors' decisions are missing the big picture. There is NO WAY these vaccinations should cost that much. We already have socialized healthcare in this country and we are being forced to pay for it through the backdoor of rising premiums, higher co-pays and $18,000 shots. Having a declared socialized system would, in the least, be more honest.

egalindo
Aug 29, 2009 at 12:27 p.m.
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Some added info that wasn't given in the article is that we had no idea how long the bat had been in the house and we could not exclude that it had contact with the kids while they were sleeping since it could have been in the house for several days. We went to the ER because it was a Sunday. I was thinking the doctor would check out the kids, ease our minds, and send us home. However, that is not what happened. As a mother my job is to protect my children and not following the ER doctor's recommendation on their behalf would have been in my opinion, neglectful. Regardless, of what you would have done I am glad to have brought to light the outrageous price of this vaccine.

skinnypuppy
Aug 29, 2009 at 12:01 p.m.
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Did it specifically say that the family uses the school district's insurance? Do we know if maybe the husband's insurance is the primary? Aren't they taxpayers themselves? I didn't realize that taxes go up to cover insurance for every claim made (as woody suggests). Wow. Enlightening.

bullysarebest
Aug 29, 2009 at 11:57 a.m.
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justaguy--I thought the same thing!!

bullysarebest
Aug 29, 2009 at 11:56 a.m.
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Okay, yes, the doctor probably does have to tell you to have the shots to cover his own butt. That doesn't mean you have to do it. With all the hoopla over vaccinations, I really wonder about giving babies, children shots that arent' necessary!

justaguy
Aug 29, 2009 at 11:55 a.m.
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"We thought we had decent insurance," said Evelyn Galindo-Doucette, a Spanish teacher in the Janesville School District. "Somehow, prices have gotten so inflated that if you happen to get charged for something because of a loophole in your insurance, you could be done. You're one step from bankruptcy." Where this can be true it sounds more like a dems. move to scare people into obama's health care plan .... my thought.

woody
Aug 29, 2009 at 11:51 a.m.
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I wonder what ihateyoumorons other identity was before they changed it to insult most of us. It seems to me, they are the ones most concerned about hiding their identity.

bullysarebest
Aug 29, 2009 at 11:46 a.m.
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Oh and BTW Ihateyoumorons--the article says the insurance company paid because the treatment started in the ER--doesn't say they conceded to pay because it's 'SOP' as you say.

woody
Aug 29, 2009 at 11:40 a.m.
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The janesville tax payers will ultimately pay for this because they pay for the teachers benefits. Thanks to these people, the insurance rates will go up and the tax payers will pay for this several times over.

bullysarebest
Aug 29, 2009 at 11:35 a.m.
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@ Ihateyourmorons (which BTW is quite a lovely name choice)
1. I have three children in my home. Do we qualify for someone caring if we die of rabies now?
2. And you said 'Internet desk jockeys who come on here to talk smack are scum' seems to me you're here talking smack amongst all the rest of us. Welcome to the scumpond.

tinkerb45
Aug 29, 2009 at 11:31 a.m.
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Of course the doctor has to tell you to get the shots, because if you happen to be the 1 in a million person that gets rabies you'll sue the doctors that didn't recommend the shots....

karenjis41
Aug 29, 2009 at 11:31 a.m.
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"IHateMorons" is a moron! All of us just "suggest removal" and that will take care of him/her. You don't tell anyone to kill themselves. I agree these people jumped to conclusions and especially with the kids. But that was totally up to them and how did the Gazette find out about it any ways? Thats their own personal lives, not ours.

RetiredAirForce
Aug 29, 2009 at 11:18 a.m.
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From the CDC website on the topic of bats and rabies...

"People cannot get rabies just from seeing a bat in an attic, in a cave, or at a distance. In addition, people cannot get rabies from having contact with bat guano (feces), blood, or urine, or from touching a bat on its fur (even though bats should never be handled!)."

"People get rabies from the bite of an animal with rabies (a rabid animal)....It is also possible, but quite rare, that people may get rabies if infectious material from a rabid animal, such as saliva, gets directly into their eyes, nose, mouth, or a wound."

http://www.cdc.gov/RABIES/bats.html

Shopierehuh
Aug 29, 2009 at 11:02 a.m.
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" for lack of a better term, too stupid to be allowed to post comments here (or exist - I'd love some face to face time with all of you)."

Keep talking like that, it is probable that you will find just what you are looking for. However, it might not be quite what you desire it to be.

janesvillean
Aug 29, 2009 at 11 a.m.
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I should clarify that last year I did have a bat in my bedroom at night (my cat caught it).
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First of all, the post-exposure protocol is no more painful than any other shot. I experienced it. It really isn't. This is a modern vaccine, not the one your parents had to get in the stomach or buttocks. So that fear is obsolete.
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Second, rabies is a really, really horrible way to die. I mean unspeakably horrible. And you cannot wait until you are symptomatic to rush in and get treatment, because by then it's too late. Only a few people have EVER survived becoming symptomatic, and only two -- two -- people have survived without prior pre-exposure vaccination. A girl in Wisconsin (whose doctors developed the "Milwaukee protocol") and a boy in Brazil. Thus PEP vaccination is considered a very good idea when there has been known exposure and when there is no way to confirm exposure or not.
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In my case it was unknown how long the bat had been in the house, and in any case I am pretty sure that it actually landed on me. PEP is the recommended medical response. It is not an overreaction simply because it is expensive. I thought we judged medical decisions based on what is going to save a life, rather than how much it costs.
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Regarding scratches -- they are considered a potential exposure. This is because they could contain saliva as a result of the bat grooming itself (same as a cat would). Look on any public health site from the CDC on down and you will find "bite or scratch" wording. A bite is more likely to transmit the virus, but the danger is that someone could use their own judgement and decide it's not a "serious" wound. But even a tiny break in the skin could transmit the virus.
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We should not fear bats. They are essential for insect control and part of every ecosystem, and they will not naturally approach humans. Bats are now one of the top remaining reservoirs of rabies in North America because we have all but eradicated it from dogs, cats, and farm animals. That's actually showing the success of public health in this country. By acting swiftly and firmly over the years we have all but eliminated the Old Yeller situation. Note, however, that a rabid wild animal is unpredictable, and a bat in your house may be there because rabies has affected its normal behavior. So home intrusions are more likely to be rabies-related even though rabies is quite rare even among bats.
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Learn more about bats at Bat Conservation International, the group that sent an expert to UW-Rock last year. The largest threat to bats is humans.
http://www.batcon.org/

tinkerb45
Aug 29, 2009 at 10:57 a.m.
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You have a choice. Nobody made these people get vaccinated. I suspect if people actually had to pay for healthcare (vs assuming its 'free' with insurance) that the choices they make will be very different.

skinnypuppy
Aug 29, 2009 at 10:55 a.m.
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It's a can't win situation for these folks. They get the recommended vaccine and get slammed for it. They don't get it and something happens, they'd get slammed for being neglectful. While I don't understand the emergency room visit as opposed to a call to the family doctor initially, I also know that there are some strange clauses in insurance policies that unnecessarily necessitate people going to the ER. I personally have never gone for rabies shots either despite some very close bat encounters, but they did follow the doctor's advice (who as SuperDave points out is most likely trying to avoid a potential lawsuit - which I can see becoming even more prevalent in today's society), so just let them be. At least we know the cost now and can make an even more informed decision in the future should we have "bat contact". :)

SuperDave
Aug 29, 2009 at 10:42 a.m.
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hater said: "CDC recommends vaccinations for children no matter how minimal the risk of rabies exposure is". Think about that statement. That means shots for children with ZERO exposure risk. Shots for ALL children???? That is just ridiculous.

SuperDave
Aug 29, 2009 at 10:39 a.m.
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To me, here are the salient points.
1. People overreact to bats. Although they can have rabies (as most animals can), in general bats are very beneficial. They are mammals, just like us. They eat lots of mosquitoes, thus sparing us that nuisance and health risk.
2. An $18,000.00 price tag is ridiculous. The health "system", while ostensibly the best in the world, is broken. The reason it does not function properly is primarily because of the restrictions placed on it by government and regulatory agencies. (So, obviously the solution is more government, right?). There is no "right" to "free" healthcare, any more than there is a "right" to "free" filet mignon, golf outings, caviar, or drinking water for that matter. Everything has a price, and the best way to minimize that price is to let the free market function.
3. The likely reason the doctor recommended the rabies shots is to mitigate the risk of a lawsuit. However, subjecting the children to the shots, when they were not even in the same room as the bat, makes no sense.
4. I agree that the husband demonstrated common sense, except possibily in his selection of a life mate :O) Her choices were influenced by the attitude that "we have good insurance, we might as well use it". This undoubtably was part of the doctor's thinking also, in addition to not wanting to be sued. Would he have recommended the shots to some "poor" uninsured family? Maybe, maybe not.

IHateYouMorons
Aug 29, 2009 at 10:28 a.m.
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@luvinlife

It may not have crossed your mind to get vaccinated but that means exactly... nothing! CDC recommends vaccinations for children no matter how minimal the risk of rabies exposure is. Had you mentioned that incident to an MD they would have recommended vaccinations for the children at minimum since, once again, that's SOP when we're talking about animals who've recently come up with rabies (as bats have in Rock County recently).

IHateYouMorons
Aug 29, 2009 at 10:24 a.m.
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@bullysarebest:

1) You're not an infant or toddler, nobody cares at all if you get infected by rabies. That's life. When there's a risk of rabies exposure to little kids, no matter how minimal, vaccinations are -always- SOP. This is why the MD, a man far more knowledgeable than anyone here, recommended vaccinations and this is why the insurance company ultimately acceded in this case.

2) Internet desk jockeys who come on here to talk smack are scum. They act as though this family did something wrong in following the MD's recommendation and blame the parents for "overreacting", which is the height of stupidity and ignorance.

luvinlife
Aug 29, 2009 at 8:51 a.m.
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I had a bat in my house a couple of weeks ago. The little creatures freak me out. We tried to get that thing out of the house for about an hour. It never crossed my mind to get a rabies shot. I am not going to worry. If a bat came close enough to me or my kids the screams alone would bring in the SWAT team. If a bat could endure that good luck LOL

garyprimer
Aug 29, 2009 at 8:05 a.m.
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When people say that they have good health insurance, chances are they have no idea what they are talking about. I'm sure it looks good on paper, but when it hits the fan, they may find that they are not covered for many things and they are out of luck.

mentor397
Aug 29, 2009 at 5:44 a.m.
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We used to get bats many, many times each years until we had the insulated updated in the house. Now we get them on average, about once a year. No big deal - open up a door and let 'em fly out. If you can't make 'em fly out, get the fishing net and take them outside. Heck, we've even got a fishing net just for that purpose.

As long as the kids didn't get bitten and the adults were aware of it the whole time, I don't see what the big deal is.

bullysarebest
Aug 29, 2009 at 2:05 a.m.
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BTW, here is a quote from the article 'The bat took a short flight around the upstairs, where the couple's kids, Ernesto, 4, and Lilli, 2, were sleeping behind closed doors. Chuck got the bat outside through an open door.'
The children were behind CLOSED doors when the bat flew upstairs. Both parents were AWAKE when it happened and would obviously KNOW if the bat got close enough to bite them or not. Go to ER and get shots? Please, what a waste of time and money!

bullysarebest
Aug 29, 2009 at 1:55 a.m.
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1. I live in Rock County.
2. I live with an old church in my back yard. Ever hear of the term bats in the belfry. Guess what--they fly by us every night when we're outside. They get in the house once and awhile.
3. I'm smart enough to know that because a bat flys by me doesn't mean it gave me rabies.
4. I've lived in the area my WHOLE life, have come in contact with many wild animals including bats in my home. NEVER have I run to the ER and gotten a vaccination.
5. After experiencing 2 TEEN SUICIDES in Evansville this week---watch what you say about making offhanded remarks telling people to commit suicide. It's tacky, cold, and uncalled for.

IHateYouMorons
Aug 29, 2009 at 1:36 a.m.
(This comment was removed by the site staff.)
Truth
Aug 29, 2009 at 1:18 a.m.
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I remember camping at Big Hills park when I was a child. We shined our flashlights in the air to watch the bats fly around.
Do I need to get the post vaccination?

bullysarebest
Aug 29, 2009 at 12:57 a.m.
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This has got to be one of the dumbest things I've read in a long time. I can see why the insurance company refused to pay--it's ridiculous. These people clearly overreacted and the doctor needs to be examined himself.

JohnDoe
Aug 28, 2009 at 11:06 p.m.
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"The next morning, the family headed to Mercy Hospital's emergency room,"

Really? Just what was the "emergency"?...the next morning?

More abuse of the health care system.

Wouldn't it have been more prudent to call the family doctor first...or perhaps a visit to "urgent care"...rather than the emergency room?

woody
Aug 28, 2009 at 10:38 p.m.
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Growing up we used to get bats in the house once in a while. It was no big deal...just open a door and shoo it out. I'm with you on this one call1. these people are idiots.

Shopierehuh
Aug 28, 2009 at 9:42 p.m.
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I just smelled a skunk, the odor is wafting in through the windows. I guess I'd better run up to Janesville to get rabies treatments.

call1
Aug 28, 2009 at 9:40 p.m.
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Another thing.. A couple people commenting here need to study up on bats before spreading untruths. Bats have no interest in getting near enough to touch you with their claws, or anything else attached to their bodies. Paranoia still runs ramped when it comes to Bats. I can understand some peoples paranoia, but someone in the Health field,.. That I don't get. I wonder if that Doctor would have made that same decision (in that same situation) if it had been his kids. I see also the mom should be a little experienced with Bats being from South America. And isn't that great this doc has another Mercy doc backing up his $18,000 windfall for the hospital. What we have to do is get quackery out of the medical profession.. OOps.. did I say Quackery?

call1
Aug 28, 2009 at 9:21 p.m.
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This is the Dumbest thing I have heard in a while! This is exactly one great reason why health care costs are out of control! This idiot Dr at Mercy needs his head examined by another (SMARTER)Doctor. UNBELIEVABLE! When I first heard about this, I thought, "it had to be over reacting parents that chose to make their kids endure these vaccinations", thus passing the cost on (if on Public Assistance) taxpayers. If Private Insurance, we still get it stuck to us in our rate increases. NOW.. I see a actual, Licensed "doctor" recommended the torture. HEY Doc.. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to know.. "No contact, No Exposure". Personally.. I think think this E.R. doctor needs to go back to Med school! Doesn't surprise me either, this happened at Mercy. I hear so many people comment on "How they can't wait for the Dean Hospital. The Nurses are Great, But the Doctors, & the Billing Dept are the Worst I've ever had to deal with.

JoeSchmo
Aug 28, 2009 at 8:16 p.m.
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Rabies is transmitted through saliva. Where did you get the information that states you can get rabies from just being brushed with a bat's claws?
It is very rare to get infected without a bite. The only occasions would be if you got saliva in an open wound, in your eye, or in your mouth. The farther away from your head the bite is, the better your chances of survival are.
I am very surprised that the ER doc would suggest getting the rabies post-exposure vaccine for people who did not have physical contact with the bat, especially the children who were behind closed doors. The post exposure vaccine is known to be very expensive and painful. I had the pre-exposure vaccine which was not fun, but when I was bitten at work by a neurologically unstable cat, I had to get the post exposure vaccine as well-which was much worse!

otis
Aug 28, 2009 at 6:57 p.m.
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46 percent of U.S. rabies cases in humans are caused by bites or scratches from infected bats—more than the 31 percent attributed to dogs.

Five of every six infections from bats occur between July and September, and the frequency peaks in August.

janesvillean
Aug 28, 2009 at 5:59 p.m.
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It's not just the "bite" -- it's believed that rabies exposure can come from just being brushed with the bat's claws as it swoops by or lands on you unintentionally.
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Killing a bat is probably a lot more difficult than capturing it in a box. The health department can then kill it more safely than you can. All you have to do is wait until it perches on a wall or other flat surface, then pop the box over it and slide a piece of cardboard in between to make a "cover". Duct tape shut so it can't escape. Wear heavy work gloves during this entire procedure.
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The good news is that over 95% of bats are rabies-free.

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