If GM wants a large number to leave again,they should atleast offer what they did last year. Chrysler is in worst shape than GM and their offer is better. It seems as though GM tries to think of the stupidest things to do, then does them. Or if they wanted to leave the offer as is. Allow the voucher to be used for an existing vehicle. Why would someone take a buyout and want to buy a new car?

the diplomat - I got some advice for ya. Look up your username in the dictionary. Maybe you weren't quite sure what it meant when you picked it, eh? Oh irony. How it tickles me.

thank you sarahb for being the only person who is a non-gm employee to actually admit they would do the same thing instead of bashing the gm employees who are taking the buyout. I wish you the best of luck in finding a new job i know that in these times things are very hard for all people not just gm employees

SarahB,

Don't know where you are getting your information. I didn't recommend one way or another taking the buyout. On the otherhand you say "Again, I recommend one take the latest offer. I don't think it is going to get any better (if at all) for at least several years." You may want to stick to topics you actually know about.

thediplomat - you only get retirement benefits if you are close to retirement age. If you don't qualify for retirement with the spefic age and years of service, you have no retirement benefits. You quit the company and give up any pension and benefits.

thediplomat: Give me a break. I was not trying to be a consultant for anyone. I was just answering a question put forth several times to non-GM folks by fellow post person "latinmami2". I did scan a few of your comments and see that you, however, are advising others on the matter.

SarahB,

How can you recommend taking this buyout when you don't know all the intricate details of the buyout being offered? Get back to your own job search and let the GM people do their due diligence and figure out what is best for them. I am pretty sure that they will want to contact their Union representatives instead of consulting with you.

anonomouse,

It is hard to compare this buyout to the last one. The last one was for over $100K but you had to sever your ties with GM. That meant no post retirement benefits. This one you still get post retirement benefits (for now) and you are being pretty much forced into retirement from GM. You will get a pension if you qualify.

anonomous...I didn't think you were bashing. I just wanted to clarify what I believe to be true. :-)

More bad news for the Chrysler workers in Belvidere.

"The other two plants that will be shut down will be the Brampton, Ontario facility and the Belvidere, Illinois plant. The shutdowns will last for at least a week, with the company evaluating whether or not to reopen them on a weekly basis."
http://www.wxyz.com/mostpopular/story/Ch...

latinmami2: I answered the question and I DO NOT work for GM. However, I am currently unemployed (another layout) and know what it is like to be facing an uncertain future. Again, I recommend one take the latest offer. I don't think it is going to get any better (if at all) for at least several years.

anonomouse...if you take the buyout you sever all ties with GM, which I believe means that you cannot reapply for your job even at the lower pay rate.
----
I didn't know that, like I said it's a hard decision and I wasn't bashing. I wouldn't want to be in that position right now.

If I had 30 years in I would think about it, but with 22 I would have to give up everything for what would ammount to a new car and about 5,000 in my pocket.Yes I might end up losing it all in the end but at least I can still make my house payment and my kids have insurance for another 2 years.All a person can do is play it month by month and see what happens.For those that are using the tuition assistance I think its great but that road isn't for everybody.

i can tell you from watching my father try to decide what is the best thing to do it is not an east decision he has not taken the buyout yet but maybe in the end will have no choice. this is a stressful time for all of the families of gm employees and when other people who do not have a clue what they are going through bash them for trying to make the right decision it makes it even harder. there is not a handbook on how to get through this sort of thing so i think if people would be a little less judgemental it would help out

anonomouse...if you take the buyout you sever all ties with GM, which I believe means that you cannot reapply for your job even at the lower pay rate.

It's a hard decision because if you take the bailout you lose unemployment, right? If GM does recover you have to reapply and work for the much lower wage. It's not an easy decision to come by, but it needs to be done to lower GM's costs so they can make a comeback. They also need to investigate where the other money leaked because all of this wasn't caused by employee wages, but the high wages are open for debate now that GM has begged for taxpayer money. I as a taxpayer am against any bailout including the banks but too many try to cloud the GM bailout with the bank bailout as an excuse to justify the GM bailout. Both were wrong IMO, but this article is about GM and not the bank bailout. If the gazette posts an article about the bank bailout I'm sure most of us non-GMers are against that too.

well at least one person answered the question. how about all of you people who are bashing people for taking the buy out what would you do if you were put in the same situation walk away with nothing because it is not right to take, i don't think so

I don't work at GM but if I did I'd take the buy out. I probably would have taken the first buy out because the buy outs are going to get smaller and smaller.

it is very interesting that the people who are not gm employees won't answer what they would do if they were in this situation.

rockcofarmer it sounds like you are trying to stir the pot too. How can you accuse someone of doing something you are doing yourself?

hey dcSCAB, looks like nobody is taking your bait. I have a question for you though. Since I deal in commodities and this voucher could be a commodity. What are you paying?There seems to be more demand than supply at this time, so put up or shut up. My guess is you don't have much, probably living in mom and dad's house and using there internet too.
--In my opinion the best part will be your reply. You will say how successful you are and also how much money you make. It will be a lie of course because you will be not be able to prove it. You only live to inflame instead of being constructive.See ya loser

Why does it matter what the Toyota worker makes? Are they taking our tax dollars? No they are not. So comparing what GM makes vs. Toyota is a irrelevant point.

wooduckhunter... You are obviously a disgruntled, bitter and jealous NON-GM worker. GM workers paid more than they are worth? Exactly how do you know what a "GM worker" is worth? Have you worked there within the past 10 years chasing the line as fast as you can building one truck every 57 seconds? Next, you surely have no clue as to what a Toyota worker makes as they actually make MORE than the GM workers. If you need proof, let me know. Or better yet, try doing the research yourself first next time before you start speaking of things you have NO idea or right talking about.

The vultures are circling.

Anyone with a GM voucher (and no need for a new car) that they are looking to convert to cash... i'm ready to buy.... at a discount of course

Mickie: Let me answer for myself, OK? Thanks. First, I have never been a GM employee and am not related to any present or past GM workers. I have been laid off several times in my life, all from "white collar" jobs. None of those jobs offered post-employment payments or benefits (other than the opportunity to spend $500 or so monthly out of my own pocket to continue my health care coverage). One of the jobs (with the county) was a union job. What would I do with this offer of $20,000 cash and a $25,000 car voucher? I would love to fight for more, but I wasn't born yesterday and I can read the writing on the wall. Take the money and run, folks. I don't think future offers will get any better and I think the sub pay is going down the tubes next. I wish I felt things would be better for these GM workers, but I don't think that will happen in today's world. Good luck to you. I feel for you but recommend you take it while you can get it.

the voucher is good for 18 months and can be transferred to one individual only it cannot be sold by any public venue (e-bay newspaper ect...) no i will not have one available

['m interested in buying a GM SUV.....i need the towing capacity.will employees be allowed to sell their new vehicle vouchers

You will never get an honest answer on those questions... Truth is they would be right there fighting for what THEY HAVE WORKED TWARDS.

Any GM worker that did not see this comming years ago was in denial. GM technology slipped because they had to pay their employees more than they were worth. At the same time over seas Toyota and Honda used that money to create hybrids and more fuel efficient cars/trucks. I drive a 2008 silverado, I like GM products, but this should not come as a huge suprise.

so for all of you against gm employees getting benefits are the people who are gm employees just suppose to not take the money because you feel that it is not a good thing? for you people who are not gm employees here is a question for you what if you were a gm employee what would you do in this situation? and don't say you would have never worked for gm in the first place because that is avoiding the question

gofigure: I don't remember which one it was, but one of the banks who got money from the Wall Street bail out also invested MILLIONS into the Bank of China. What is wrong with that picture!

Many of you are angry about the GM worker and help they are getting in the buyout. A MUST READ ..........
I highly recommend you read this article from the Brazil News:

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?Category......

* how the buyout money is going to be used to assist GM with their Brazil Operations to make it more viable. REAL problem with taxpayer money used, buyout paying to assist another country other then US PEOPLE WHO HAVE LOST JOBS, AND THEIR TAXES AND THEIR CHILDREN'S TAXES. Is it a wonder our economy is in such trouble. Very discouraging...

momof54 my father works for gm and i know exactly what you are saying he raised us on that money and benefits and still has children at home he is providing for and let me tell you never knowing if you are going to wake up and have a job the next day is an awful thing. for all these people who are bashing gm employees especially ones that have family that worked for gm (those are the worst) they all need to get a life and worry about their own benefits and if they don't like the forum or opinion maybe they should change the page

ljs64: actually, don't respond to anything I asked or said to you. I read many of your other posts. If it takes one to know one, then I guess your trailer park also has a lot of computers in it, hey? Here's a TIP: get a clue! Ignorance really is bliss, like you said, on these threads! Poster child, anyone?

ljs64: I hope you didn't take it as though I was berating you. But, I am confused. Your own father worked at GM. He worked beyond the "30 and out." Isn't that what you were criticizing others for? Or did he "abuse" the system and use every possible benefit available to him for those "extra" 6.2 years?

I remember a loooong time ago, evansvillehousewife got slammed for her comment re: responsible healthcare. This is what she is talking about. Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD. When people go to the (eye doctor) just because their insurance allows for it, or when people flood urgent care centers because they won't be paying for it (never mind they have nothing more urgent than the common cold), etc.., they are costing all of US more money in the end. That is why (among other reasons) so many in this country do not have health insurance: it is financially unobtainable for private insurees to secure it or corporations to offer it.

What other benefits are you talking about not using that others fought for and made them look like whiney pathetic brats? Pay? Pretty sure everyone has cashed all their paychecks (minus my uncle). GMS/GMO discount? Not everyone NEEDS a new car every year. But, I would imagine, that at some point in EVERYONE'S career at GM, each employee has either used or allowed their discount to be used to purchase a vehicle. Profit sharing? At $3 and some change...let's not go there. Safer working conditions? Pretty sure enjoyed that too. Holidays/vacations? Did your dad park his truck in the lot during "deer hunting" week even though there was no production--or did he enjoy that benefit too?

Does your dad know you refer to his fellow UAW brothers are whiners and pathetic?

My great-uncle worked for GM for 30 some years. Saved EVERY penny after 40 hours. In fact, I think payroll had to call him a few times and ask him to bring his checks back in because they had expired. Anyhow... I remember making the comment to him when I was like 10 that "my dad doesn't work very hard at the plant." I was a kid. What the crap did I know? He set me straight, and I have never forgotten it. He very sternly replied "He puts those $50 designer jeans on your butt doesn't he? Alright then." So, ljs64, your dad (and mine) may have been pathetic whiners--but they provided for their families. Including unused benefits--we had orthodontic coverage. But, the dentist didn't think I REALLY needed them...could have...but didn't. Responsible healthcare.

BTW--I hope you aren't making yourself out to be a hypocrite and are using your dad's GMS/GMO discount.

I do not hate GM nor do I wish any misfortune on any present or retired GM employee. My father worked for GM for 36.2 years. GM was the main source of income for him to provide for his family. He now has enjoyed 14 years of retirement. And yes, he worked over the "30 years and out." Yes, he could have chosen to retire 6.2 years earlier. I find it amusing that a person cannot voice their opinion in an open forum such as this without getting berated. I am entitled to my opinion just as you are yours. Don't like it turn the page.

thank you momof5 that is right no one is bashing these people for where they work so why is it their job to bash people who work at gm. worry about your own job and your own money and let the people who do work for gm worry about what they have going on

ljs64: What on Earth are you griping about? Seriously. This affects you HOW? MOST of the time, local UAW 95 did NOT have a choice in whether or not to strike. Most, if not all, strikes at this plant have been from NATIONAL. It doesn't matter if John Doe wants ANY of those added perks or not, it doesn't matter if Jane Doe NEEDS the money: when the call comes in from National to strike, you do just that. You strike. And, I don't remember what strike pay is....but I know it isn't much!

I think some people, ahem, ljs64, hate GM because they can. I don't begrudge you for where you work or for what benefits you take advantage of there.

I agree with RUSerious they could slash our wages in half and the price of that car still isn't going to come down.We have cars made in Mexico that sit right next to the ones made in the USA and there isn't a price difference yet Mexico is paid far lower wages than ourselves.As for the burger flippers with the profits their owners make they should really form a fast food union they could and should be making far higher wages than they are.

the employees of gm are taking the benefits that are available to them. should the gm employees not take the benefits and payouts because other people are opposed to them? these employees have to do what is right for their lives and their families and no one has the right to judge someone for wanting to take care of their families. unless you people who are complaining about the payouts plan on providing for the families of the gm employees then none of you have a right to complain about it.

"Why after the strike in the early 70's for "30 years and out" didn't he retire at 30 years?"

To sum up for RUSerios and ihavealife, the quote above is probably the dumbest I've read so far. Most folks complain when someone DOES retire at age 50. I couldn't care either way. The complaining about GM workers taking advantage of the benefits available is silly.

very nice post. i agree

The thing about this GM bashing is-many thousands of workers have worked at our local plant over the last nearly century, the majority being average Joes (and eventually Jills) who applied, got a job, put in their time, raised their families, and would have eventually (or already have) retired. WHAT do you want them to do now? Give an example. And make sure it is something that you, too, would and could realistically do.
Most of these people were not activists who fought for potty breaks, lunch breaks, 30& out, with retirement benefits, insurance-all the good stuff. The majority took what was offered (who among you would fight for less than was offered?) and did what they were told to do. Some of you call it an entitlement attitude.
Much of what has been won was won before the people you despise were even working at GM yet, or were on the job such a short time and had little or no individual "power". Would you have been happier if GM (and Lear, and all related companies) had never received any applications because people would have felt guilty getting a good job, so GM never operated here? Then who would be your target? Anyone making a little or a lot more than you?
ljs64: You asked ihavealife why didn't her husband take the 30 and out HE fought for? Maybe it wasn't his idea. Maybe he didn't have any power to stop it. My estimate is he had 10 years in when it was won. Maybe by the time he had 30 years in, he still had a mortgage, kids in school, whatever. Maybe he was only 48 and he didn't feel he should retire yet. Just maybe the GM bashers would have knocked him for retiring at 48.
Who among you would fight for less on your own job? You all belittle "burger-flippers" as people who can't get better, and our local GM workers as people who insist on too much. You claim they shouldn't make much because they don't have college educations. So, they should get one before working at GM, or should they only get minimum wage? Who gets the profits then from autos that cost a lot no matter who produces them? Do you think YOU would see it in car prices? Really? Not much. Do you really think everyone should get exactly the same-based on....what? And you, too? You know what they call that, don't you?
Did it ever occur to you that 95% of our local workers take what is offered and aren't fighting either way? Can you honestly say that you would give it all up to save the guy making $7 less an hour-do you honestly think you would even have that power? In other words-what IS IT that you want a 20 year veteran of GM to do? WHAT would make you happy? They should quit whining? They should cut all ties and decline any severance? YOU are the ones whining-you who work elsewhere and claim to be doing just fine (then what is your problem?), and those of you who get less (why didn't YOU get a better job? Working at GM would make you feel guilty or is beneath you? Why didn't you make choices that were perfect for everyone involved? Why didn’t YOU read the future).

i think that all the people who are not employees of gm have no clue what is really going on. you can judge all you want but when your job that you have been at all your life just ends that is not an easy thing to go through and maybe some of you should try walking in the other person's shoes before you pass judgement on them or think that they do not deserve the payout they are getting.

You could not pay me enough to work in a union environment. Pay all those union dues year after year and then when trouble rears it's ugly head lose those benefits you paid the union to get you....
Can you say elimination of the Jobs Bank??

why is it that all of you people are concerned about what the gm employees are getting. if you want what they have then get a job at gm or maybe tell your employer that you need to get the same treatment as the gm employees otherwise you are going to continue to have tantrums on the forums

I am not judging your husband or you for the decsion you/he made to work 42.5 years for GM. I am simply stating a fact that many people question why the employees/UAW strike for benefits that so many never take advantage of. Really, makes no sense.

ihavealife: You say your husband worked 42.5 years at GM. Why after the strike in the early 70's for "30 years and out" didn't he retire at 30 years? This is one example of why so many people get upset with GM employees. Fight and strike for more benefits and then do not take advantage of them, which keeps younger workers laid off and or unemployed.

No buy outs or perks for these people either...Stoughton laid off yesterday. Sad.

http://gazettextra.com/news/2008/dec/05/...

Revealing article, I don't think GM wanted us to see that.

Buyout money means more being spent around the community supporting our businesses.

I think Wagoner has absolutely no vision what-so-ever. The old man is a fossil and should have been replaced 8 years ago. I thought he was an idiot back in 2001. He doesn't seem to have much business sense either. However, I will concede that he does not play on a level playing field since he has to work with the UAW and most businesses are not handcuffed behind their back because they don't deal with unions. Still, his long term vision missed the mark completely.

ttyl1023 ... Does it really matter what number I come up with? If it is too low you will say that I am just a greedy overpaid auto worker unwilling to suffer for the cause. If it is too high you will say that I am an Extremely Overpaid auto worker if I could afford to give up that much of an hourly wage. It is a win win for you to push your biased agenda. How much do you think a reasonable decrease would be?

I recommend ALL OF YOU reading this article in the Brazil newspaper.

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?Category...

IT has how GM is using some of this buyout that we the taxpayer are paying for, to make their Brazil Operations more viable... I am so disgusted and you should be too, that we have the debt, we are loosing jobs, and other countries are makeing the items and getting our jobs, AND OUR MONEY! I can't understand how they can get away with that and no one seems to care.

Many of you are angry about the GM worker and help they are getting in the buyout.
I highly recommend you read this article from the Brazil News:
http://www.laht.com/article.asp?Category...

* It tells how the buyout money is going to be used to assist GM with their Brazil Operations to make it more viable. I have a real problem with our taxpayer money being used, our buyout paying to assist another country other then US. Very Tragic and no wonder our economy is in such trouble. Very discouraging...I can't believe our government would allow them to use the money in another country meanwhile we loose jobs, and our taxes go up to pay the debt. Just tragic

was i happy to be on strike NO but what some people don't realize is when it is contract time we don't keep what we have and go after more. it's start out with nothing and work from there, yes we retain alot of what we had but you still start from the bottom and work your way up

ttyl1023: "you don't get it - you never will and that is why you are where you are."
Where am I? You know so much about ME "based off a blog"? I was out when you posted that. I'm home now-and it's in no danger of foreclosure if you plan on watching for my house in the paper, too, like you said to a couple other people (like a vulture watching for easy pickings). And, as I said before, I am not an employee of GM, but neither do I think the country's ills fall on their hard working shoulders. I'm sorry that some are left with little by their (sometimes) selfish and self-serving employers, but I am NOT sorry when others are helped. I wish it were all equal, that they'd all get something to ease the transition. Even you. You sound like you're losing something, otherwise why the bitterness to others whose burdens may be eased? Corporation heads will not suffer, why should the people who enabled them to build their products or services?

RUSerious - when did I say that I know more about it - or that I have more of a right to post here? Please. I could care less what you think of my posts or what you think of my character based off a blog. The bottom line is - you don't get it - you never will and that is why you are where you are.

ttyl1023: I have read some of your posts and quite frankly - I disagree with virtually every statement you make. I am just someone who is fed up with people blasting people who are in danger of losing their livelihood but otherwise have been hard working,(by cutting down their spelling, their work ethic, and the very product that they are commissioned to make), as well as showing your glee at their problems as if there are no individuals-just money sucking bums who have single-handedly brought about the downfall of the entire economy and deserve to lose their homes through foreclosure so that you, ttyl1023, can take advantage of it. You make vacuuous claims about how little work each individual does to make those vehicles. I have every right to express my opinions - as do you. But remember what this news story is about-don't even say you have more right to post here than those who are the focus of the topic, or that you know more about the subject than they do.
If it all makes you so furious, if you have so much insight, and are so much better than they, you go out and save the economy so the points made here become moot.

The biggest difference in UAW and foreign plants is the health care costs. UAW workers have better coverage, and also cover almost a million, working and retired, people. The foreign companies don`t have very many retirees yet. The UAW has already addressed this by agreeing to take over health care from the Big 3, that is where 40% of GM`s long term debt is. The union has agreed to take half in stock already, so I don`t know what else they are supposed to do at this point. The wages are virtually the same already.

unkbd - what would have been a reasonable pay cut? I am curious to know.

I am not here to "make it better" - I am here to express my disgust with the way this whole situation has been/is being handled. If you don't like what I have to say -then get off the blog.

RU Serious - I have read some of your posts and quite frankly - I disagree with almost every statement you make. I am not a "troll" I am just someone who is fed up with throwing money at problems to make it better. I have every right to express my opinions - as do you.

ttyl- you have some points, and thats a loose SOME, but if are fortunate enough to still have a job then dont rub it in other peoples faces. That shows what little class you have, you must be a smug city worker. Im laid off right now and I didnt work at GM. The draining economy has hurt every line of work out there, construction to sales jobs. Its a bad thing right now and you are not making things better. As far as going and applying, if the jobs arent there then you cant apply. Heck McD's isnt even hiring. Enjoy your job, hopefully you dont lose yours.

yes we did give up a $1 raise a few years ago took a increase in medical copays as well as presciption copays and yes i would have been willing to give more also as long as the ceo and other bigshots gave as well after all why should they be rewarded for losing market share

ttyl1023: "The numbers PROVE that GM is failing."
Don't you know how to read the papers?? Countless companies are failing!
"Every post you make is a pity party."
Those pity posts are YOUR posts!
"I will buy your house when it goes up for foreclosure too - I will watch for it in the paper!" How classy! Kind of tells us something about your character.
"I would be afraid to drive or ride in any of the "vehicals" you helped to produce."
And the world would be afraid to be driving next to you! Besides-are you even old enough to have a license?
"When that LOAN is paid back - then I will withdraw my statement."
Why didn't you wait to make it until the loan WASN'T paid back?
I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't generally think most non-GM posters who whine (It has never been the GM workers who whine) on here are jealous, but this one is not only jealous, but clearly bitter. You are wasting your virtual breath to even discuss this issue with it. This poor excuse for a human being clearly hates anyone or anything that is not suffering as it clearly is. This "person" is obviously a troll, and picked this topic to post under because he/she/it thought it would be a great feeding grounds.

Nor were the wages a large part of the vehicle price people paid. Approximately 6% of the vehicle price averaged corporate wide.

Yes

www.indexmundi.com/trade/exports/?countr...
-
In 2005 it fell into the #7 Category over all. Not excluding food and grain products.
-
Why should the employees take any blame. No one asked me if I would take a pay cut. I would have gladly taken one if it meant I would be working. Let's clarify that , a reasonable pay cut. And if there are any other GMers in here that would also have done so respond with a "yes". Besides the inflated wages you rant about weren't out of line when GM agreed with the union to pay them were they?

almeg - I need to converse with someone who has an I.Q. higher than my dog - so I will not respond to any more of your posts. At least unkbd has some valid and good points.

What?!?! Maybe you should work on your reading comprehension.

Of course Wallstreet played a vital role in the current situation that the auto industry is in. But so did the mis-management of GM, the greed of the union and the employees! Why can't you see that? Face the facts. There is no one right reason why -but I have yet to see an ex GM'er take some responsibility for the demise of their own employer! Maybe if people were paid average wages for factory work and the union had not put such unreasonable monetary demands on GM then this situation would not be as dire as it is today! Would there still be problems because of the economy - yes. Would you probably still have a job - not sure. But I know that the company would have been able to sustain itself longer had some of these factors been considered long ago. Think about it.

"I also enjoy how you critcize the Wallstreet bailout - but feel that it is ok for GM? Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black isn't it?" - ttyl1023
-
I never said that it was okay for GM. The whole thing is a mess. I am also not going to bite the hand that is feeding me either. The domino effect of wall streets failures caused the GM faltering and the faltering of many other companies. The difference between the auto industry and other companies is the sheer magnitude of the demise of the auto industry. I don't know what the answer is but other than food and grains, what is the largest export of the United States? I would be willing to bet that the auto industry is in the top 5.

Then quit blaming your job loss on everyone else but yourself and your union and your employer! Every post you make is a pity party.

That's good! I don't want or need your pity.

Oh - almeg - I will buy your house when it goes up for foreclosure too - I will watch for it in the paper!

I am sure I would not be fun to work with for you - I don't have pity on people such as yourselves.

I don't think she would be much fun to work with anyway.

Nope - no overtime. We don't want to fatten the unemployment fund for you people any more than the bare minimum.

ttyl1023 said there was no overtime available at that job. No thanks.

almeg- DON'T BE JEALOUS! You are just jealous that I have a job to sit at. By the way - I am done working for the day.

I also enjoy how you critcize the Wallstreet bailout - but feel that it is ok for GM? Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black isn't it?

unkbd- Maybe we can get jobs where we can sit at the computer all day and post about things that we have no knowledge of.

As back handed as your wish of good luck to me was, I'll take it. And thank you.

unkbd - good luck - you are going to need it.

No, almeg... I was super-talented before I worked at GM. I just knew a good thing when I saw it and now that the ride is over, I will take the experience and benefits available to me and then be on my way.

Burbanmom - the sky is falling!

I would not say that I am a liberal - but I am a person who comes to conclusions and forms opinions based off of facts and numbers. Numbers don't lie. The numbers PROVE that GM is failing. I think the bailout $ will help in the short run - but it is just a bandaid fix to the deeper problems of the company. I am not addressing the Wallstreet issue. First of all - that is not what this thread is about. Second of all - Wallstreet and GM are two VERY different animals.

ttyl-a job a monkey could do? i would have loved to have trained you on my job cause i know you would have never been able to keep up now what would that make you? (in fact when i needed to get out of work they usually had 2 people cover it just so the line didn't go down)

Never said I was. I misspelled a word. Again I am sorry for my error. Move on.

You are absolutely right. I don't even agree with "handing out money to a miserably failing company". I was really angry when wall street got their bailout. Was it for the good of the country though? I think in the long run it was. As far as your claims of overpaid employees and the lagging quality of GM products, it might be best if you researched that a little more instead of buying into the liberal media.
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Who said that I had a sense of entitlement. Did I ask for a bailout? Subpay? No. Am I glad that it is available to me? Sure.

I would be afraid to drive or ride in any of the "vehicals" you helped to produce.

No, I paid into the system a long time. I think I'll drain it a little first.

Well almeg we all know that you weren't the brains of the operation over there.

unkbd- Are you"super talented because you worked at GM." I must have missed where you said that. Oh wait, that was just another ignorant rant from a very bitter person.

Wrong almeg. Shouldn't you be out applying for jobs instead of being a drain on the system?

ttyl-I don't think "the majority of the American people" share your ignorant views.

Nope - not guesses - just opinions. Just like you have the opinion that you are super talented because you worked at GM.

Just a random guess.... Kind of like every other post you have made on this thread.

No matter what you say or what you post on here - the majority of the American people will NEVER agree with handing out money to a miserably failing company that makes a crap product that nobody wants and is overpriced - and that goes double for the overpaid workers who have the sense of entitlement that you do.

Boater...please read my 3pm post.

Idiots such as yourselves being overpaid to do a job a monkey could do? Just a random guess.

so true boater.

And what caused the crappy economy? ...... C'mon ...... we all know anyway...... just say it.

I just told you why. You need to sharpen your comprehension skills - maybe you and latinmami should go to the "phonix" class together.

I bet it was.

Could it be the crappy economy?

We didn't want to fund anymore unemployment money to people such as yourself.

no overtime ... hmmm. What caused your employer to eliminate that?

Sorry - no overtime here - that has been eliminated. I will buy your house when it goes up for foreclosure though.

By your previously stated logic, I think that instead of worrying about getting some of my tax return and posting on here you ought to be working some overtime to pay more taxes so you can fund my unemployment check.

This buyout is probably coming from the pension fund, just like the last one. GM is doing what they were told to do, trying to cut costs.

Why would I be upset about you getting money from our taxes if I did not pay taxes? That would be stupid. Of course I pay taxes. Since you get a handout from the government - I expect you to reimburse me since you are the one receiving my tax dollars - or you can give me a car - either one. Note: make sure the car is not a GM product please.

boater54 - you want in on unkbd's tax returns? I know that elementalvirago does!

What do my tax returns have to do with us being square? Do you get a tax return? Do you pay taxes? What ever the government didn't return to you is the governments money. If you have a problem with that take it up with your congress person.

Wrong - my check still equals my dollar. Then give me your tax return and all your returns until it equals $20,000 plus a car and we will be square.

"but now I am supposed to be ok with handing over a free car and $20,000 to you on my dollar? Sorry - not in this lifetime." - ttyl1023
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It stopped being "your dollar" when the government took it out of your check in taxes.

"Perhaps GM should channel its creativity into building better vehicles that can compete in the world marketplace rather than focusing their efforts on finding ways to better take care of laid off workers. Build a better product than the other guy and you don't even have to worry about layoffs and golden parachutes." - jvldss
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You have obviously not done any research on the overall quality of GM vehicles recently or even in the last 5 to 7 years. GM quality is on par with and in some cases surpasses that of Toyota, Honda, Hyundai, etc. Not only in North America, but worldwide. What is the best selling vehicle in China? Buick (sorry I can't remember where I read it but it was just recently). My point is ... get a clue.

Then I am a sicko I guess. Of course I feel bad that people are out of work - but I feel for the GM workers LEAST of all since they are being offered so much more than all the others who have lost their jobs. Don't give me the union line again either - your union failed you and so did your employer - but now I am supposed to be ok with handing over a free car and $20,000 to you on my dollar? Sorry - not in this lifetime.

When that LOAN is paid back - then I will withdraw my statement.

"almeg- stop trying to turn this discussion around. The article that we are blogging on is about GM - not the banks. You are looking for a scapegoat so that we don't focus on GM and all the taxpayer dollars that are being wasted." - ttyl1023
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Looking for a scapegoat? From all of the bashing in here it sounds like GM is the scapegoat. TTYL .... it sounds as though you think that all of the money wall street got was not wasted. If I remember correctly the money that GM got was a LOAN. The wall street money was not a loan. That was an injection with little or no accountability as to where it was used. I have said it before, place the blame where it rightly belongs. GMs situation was "mostly" a direct result of the economic crunch.

ttl1023 says: "I would rather stick long needles in my eyes than accompany any GM (or former) GM worker to their job. Not because I think the work is exhausting or mind-boggling - but because people such as yourself work there. By the way - I LOVE MY HONDA!"
This kind of talk is just sick. You'd rather stick long needles in your eyes than not see a neighbor suffer" What did you say your problem was?
By the way-I'm not with GM, I have similar concerns about ALL people affected by the bad economy, and have NO bitterness towards anyone who may get benefits that will help them weather this storm (unless it's CEO's who get millions and promotions-and I can't fathom it when I see neighbors hating neighbors because they get just thousands when LOSING lifetime jobs.) I can't imagine anyone who feels that way.

people such as myself? fyi i worked a different factory job right out of high school for 7 years then i was lucky enough to get hired at GM i have 4 kids 1-grade 1-middle 1 in highschool and 1 at blackhawk tech i never felt like GM owed me anything and yes i would much rather be working right now instead of trying to figure out how i'm gonna get another 8 years in

almeg - ttyl1023 was stopped by a GM worker whose SUV was recently recalled and they needed a ride to the same phonix class.

No - I couldn't find the vehical! I guess I should probably walk to my phonix class!

so what you are trying to say is we only built 12 jobs per hour?

ttyl1023-I thought you were leaving. Whats the matter, your car didn't start?

Burbanmom - I would rather stick long needles in my eyes than accompany any GM (or former) GM worker to their job. Not because I think the work is exhausting or mind-boggling - but because people such as yourself work there. By the way - I LOVE MY HONDA!

Uh, actually I know someone who works there putting a bolt on a radiator every 5 minutes. He reads a book until the next one comes down the line, screws a bolt on, and the cycle continues. I'm sure it's a really good job if you can get it. Personally I'd rather do something more stimulating. Which is one reason out of many that I choose not to work at GM. Looks like in retrospect I made the right choice.

Uh - look where your "union" got you ... a place in the unemployment line. Way to go! But I guess we are "jealous" of that too!

what was that about putting a bolt on every 5 minutes? you have no clue. instaed of bring your kid to work day i always said we should have a bring your GM basher to work day like i said you havn't got a clue

Some quotes from Environmentalvirago and ttyl1023:
"Look, if you went to a doctor and they wrote you a "perscripshun" for something, wouldn't you hesitate just a little about running out and getting your meds? And then you all wonder why we don't buy GM products." You apparently have never tried to read a doctor's "prescripshun".
"GM workers getting a large lump sum (more money than I would make in several years) and a car."
You don't make $20,000 in several years? No wonder you're angry.
" wouldn't get the same treatment?" Because you don't work there nor have a contract through a union with them maybe?
"only job I could get is putting a bolt on a radiator on an assembly line every 5 minutes for the next 30 years for $25 an hour,"
And that makes it obvious you've never worked there. What a gross misrepresentation of what a GM line worker does. And you complain about spelling errors?

Perhaps GM should channel its creativity into building better vehicles that can compete in the world marketplace rather than focusing their efforts on finding ways to better take care of laid off workers. Build a better product than the other guy and you don't even have to worry about layoffs and golden parachutes.

I have to go drive my vehical to my phonix class now.

When my tax dollars are involved - I have a right to know where the money is going - and if it is going into the pockets of intelligent GM employees such as your family members - then I do have a problem with it. It has nothing to do with jealousy.

No, everyone's reasoning to this point has only been this: "GM workers have to provide for their families and that's why they need this." NOT "GM workers get this treatment because GM can afford to do so."
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Oh wait, that's so weird because I think I read somewhere that GM went under and needs a multi-zillion dollar bailout, so they probably CAN'T afford it.
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Yep, still don't get it.

What is "phonix"? OMG!!!!! Too funny.

if you wanted the same treatment as the gm employees i guess you should of went and got a job there. i don't think every single business across the whole usa provides the employees all the same benefits do they nope they don't so i guess it would make sense that you don't get the same package as someone who works at gm

whenever anyone gets hung up on what other people are getting paid it is normally over jealousy. maybe you should worry about your own job and mind your own business or go teach hooked on phonix since you seem to want to be the school teacher of the forum

OK, fine. I'm perfectly OK with unemployed GM workers getting a large lump sum (more money than I would make in several years) and a car. But when and if I lose my job, I will expect the same.
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Wait, what's that you say? I wouldn't get the same treatment? But why? I have kids to feed. I have a mortgage. I have bills. So then please explain to me why GM workers are different. Explain that. Explain this sense of entitlement. Why do they deserve it but no one else that loses their jobs do? Does everyone in this town think that GM is the only struggling business, and that their workers are the only ones finding themselves out of jobs? Please PLEASE someone make me understand this.

elementalvirago - I guess we are jealous now - the good old "jealousy" routine.

i don't think anyone here asked you to go out and buy a VEHICLE. The GM workers are not concerned whether or not you are offended by the way they spell people are worried about providing for their families. Why don't you all see that. Are you worried about the children that need to be taken care of while you are on here being jealous of what the gm workers are going to get paid? i know a lot of people who worked for gm for 30 years or more and a lot are family members and this is not just some little adjustment in life this is something that devistates a family when you all of sudden have to find a new job and a new way to to take care of a family. so for you people who are worried about spelling mistakes you don't have to rush out and buy a gm VEHICLE you need to rush out and get a life though

Just read the post below - at least someone gets it!

I think you missed the point. Why do you need to attack people who do not agree with you?

ttly1023 isn't just pointing out a spelling error. I get it. The concern is that when you make vehicles for a living (and think you're a superhero for doing it, I might add), and you can't even spell the word vehicle correctly (even though you probably see it at work every day), you lose all credibility. And it wasn't a typo, because she spelled it like that more than once.
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Look, if you went to a doctor and they wrote you a "perscripshun" for something, wouldn't you hesitate just a little about running out and getting your meds? And then you all wonder why we don't buy GM products.
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Honestly if I were a GM worker who claimed to have a college degree and several certifications but the only job I could get is putting a bolt on a radiator on an assembly line every 5 minutes for the next 30 years for $25 an hour, I'd be worried about what I was going to do after I lost my job too.

Like I said - I do make spelling/grammar errors too - you both are missing the point.

latinmami - are you the one who wrote about having a horse farm? If so - that post was incredibly stupid. I am not the spelling police - I just found it insanely funny that someone who makes vehicles cannot even spell the word - but the person claims to be quite deserving of a high wage. I could care less about regular typos or words spelled incorrectly - I am sure I do it all the time. But it doesn't get any better than a GM worker proving that they are no smarter or more deserving than any other worker who has fallen on hard times. I am sure glad that my tax dollars are bailing out people like almeg!

"almeg- stop trying to turn this discussion around. "

Haven't you turned this whole discussion into whether or not people can spell right?

I did not make a big deal out of going to college. I was trying point out that contrary to what you said, "Why should a college graduate make less than someone with a high school diploma?", there are a lot of GM workers that have a college degree. I also find it ironic that your post to point out my spelling error had a grammar error." It wasn't like you some word that most people would not know how to spell wrong - and you did it twice - thus proving my point about you."

ityl1023 - i guess this whole article for this forum is about whether people type something in error by accident. glad to see that the biggest thing you have to contribute on this forum is whether or not people are spelling things right, while the rest of us are worried about providing for our families you are being the spelling police. well i really hope i spelled everything right.

Plus you made a big deal about going to college and being so smart - you pretty much just shot all your credibility down the drain when you wrote about the "vehical".

You work in a field that manufacturers vehicles and you cannot even spell the word vehicle! Don't you see the irony in that? It wasn't like you some word that most people would not know how to spell wrong - and you did it twice - thus proving my point about you. I don't think I can laugh any harder.

"Jk its probably a majority ex gm people. They have nothing better to do now. I agree though. Find something else to do people."

it is really funny posting that people need to find something else to do when you are doing the same thing. i would think that if you did not like the topic that is being discussed you would have the option not to come on here and be so rude. why is it that people should just get over not having a job after working there for 30 years, do you honestly think it is that easy just to adjust to something like that. i think some of you need a real reality check. gm employees have families they are supporting. i have a friend who's husband worked at gm their son is severely disabled and counted on the insurance to help her with the medicine her son needs to survive on. that is not something you just get over. famlilies lived off of this income and to just think everyone should get over it is crazy

I misspelled a word. So sorry. I will tear up my diploma and all my certifications! I was not trying to turn this discussion around, just offering my opinion. You can pull your claws back in now!

I'm so sick of seeing the same lame people with the same lame opinions on these blogs. Your lame nutty opinions don't matter to anyone. Get a life.

almeg- stop trying to turn this discussion around. The article that we are blogging on is about GM - not the banks. You are looking for a scapegoat so that we don't focus on GM and all the taxpayer dollars that are being wasted.

I am now quoting almeg:

"ttyl1023- I am a GM employee with a college degree."

Then your college forgot to teach you how to spell vehicle. Wow is all I have to say about that.

What is a "vehical"?

almeg - yes and GM is doing nothing to sell more vehicles. No great deals, no discounts, ending leasing. Go ask any car dealership what it's like to work with them right now. They aren't doing squat to get more people to buy cars. They've also lost a ton of lease customers to foreign brands because they pulled that. In the state they're in right now, a serious marketing strategy needs to take place in order to get return buyers to stay loyal, otherwise they will all be gone in spite of them.

Take it and run

Spark- You asked what is GM doing to sell more vehicals? No one is selling vehicals. People are NOT buying. They are losing their jobs. Banks are not loaning money. It is not just GM that has a huge decline in sales:
In January, sales declined 54.8% for Chrysler, 48.9% for General Motors Corp. and 40.3% for Ford Motor Co. Asian automakers suffered, too. Sales declined 31.7% at Toyota, 29.7% for Nissan and 27.9% for Honda. The question to ask is with all the money the banks are receiving, what are they doing with it?

"Geez, GM workers are super spoiled. It's no wonder why America is so poor now-a-days. I understand working for a company for 30 years and getting a retirement plan but $140,000 AND a new car? It's like winning the lottery for getting laid off."

Is not having a job to provide for your children at home and a horse farm called being spoiled these days. I guess it is really easy to say that if you still have a job and a way to take care of your family. Exactly how far do you think 140,000 goes these days. Not very. I think most people would take working their 40 hours over receiving the one time payment of 140,000.

Just read the story about Woodbridge in Broadhead. Unbelievable. So, with all the money GM is being handed, I have questions for GM. What are they doing to change your business? What are you doing to sell more vehicles? Are you going to get all these other employees their jobs back? Actually, I can answer that. Nothing and no. My days of driving GM are done. That has all I've driven and I'm sickened by what they have created. For all of you that wanted them to get this bailout money, think about what kind of a stimulus package we could all be getting instead of them. The people that are going to spend it to help boost the economy. Not the jerks that no matter how much they get in support, will still bury the company.

Thank you madeinusa....I agree with you. Evansville...the only people who are whining are the people who DON'T work for GM. The rest us are trying our hardest to make lemonade out of the lemons we've been handed. And no, I'm not a "GM'er"...my husband is though.

That makes sense. All of my friends that had the loans deducted were buyout/sever all ties situations.

The ones that severed ties had it taken out, they were the only ones that got $140,000.

They did take it out of the buyouts. I knew several people who had this happen and they were not in default.

same here he retired they didn't take out for the car loans may-be it was different for people who severed all ties i don't know

ihavealife...thank you. Since it didn't happen to us personally, I can't say for sure one way or the other. I'm glad that's not the case. Just another reason to ask lots of questions before accepting the buyout.

ihavealife, are you sure about that? I know people that had that happen to them and they did NOT have default judgements against them.

pretty: you maybe? I heard Tom, Dick and Harry also.

The people that got $140,000 did not get a car voucher, and no health benefits, and no pension. And if they happened to have a GMAC loan, that came out before the rest was paid.

Chemical_6 - who's getting $140,000 and a new car?

Geez, GM workers are super spoiled. It's no wonder why America is so poor now-a-days. I understand working for a company for 30 years and getting a retirement plan but $140,000 AND a new car? It's like winning the lottery for getting laid off.
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I know people that worked there and people that worked at Lear. So I am not being bias here... it's just my opinion (and probably a lot of others' opinions as well)

momof5..Im still curious to know ..Who are you referring to that you know that works at simmons that p*$$es away their money!!!

I said "nearly 50%" because I didn't know what the exact percentage was, but I knew that friends who took the $140,000 buyout last summer received less than $90,000 after taxes. That's pretty close to 33%...thank you for clarifying.

A further note on taxability of lump sum payments, the initial withholding may be 33% BUT in the end it is taxed at your normal income tax rate. ie 33% of a 20k payment is $6600 now if you are in the 20% tax bracket the actual tax is $4000 meaning an additional $2600 would be refunded at tax time.

Actually, I believe the 33% or the 50% is only the whithholding rate for this type of payroll. Your actual tax rate may still be 28% (it depends on your income for the entire year).

A typical severance package may only be 1 week of pay for every year of seniorty with a cap of 12 weeks of pay. For somebody making a very respectable $50k income that amounts to less than $12k (which is taxable just like the GM package). My math is just fine..the GM buyout is still a good deal. Its a GREAT deal when U.S. taxpayers are helping to pay for it.

I agree with you diplomat. It is hardly $45K...the $20,000 cash buyout is taxable (at nearly 50%) and the $25,000 value of the voucher is taxable as well. If you use part of the cash to pay the taxes on the voucher, you're probably left with barely a couple thousand dollars. Hardly an attractive offer if the alternative is to continue on UC and Sub.

realitybytes,

It's not $45K after taxes and part of it is a voucher only good for a vehicle. Again that doesn't amount to $45K to put in a bank account. You might want to work on your financial skills. It is always best to think in net income.

momof5: I think that was prettyinpink888's way of SHOUTING at you. (LOL!)

test

prettyinpink888--ps...your caps lock is on. :p

prettyinpink: calm down... I was just making a generalization--which doesn't feel very good does it. Yes, the people I know who work or worked at Simmons did pi** their money away. But, that happens at ANY job: and certainly happened at GM. However, I would venture to say that the MAJORITY of the folks at GM worked equally as hard for their hourly wage as those who work at Simmons. I CHOSE to buy a Simmons mattress, just like I CHOSE to buy a GM product. The quality on BOTH is outstanding and no matter what they pay their workers, I would buy BOTH again. But, doesn't one think that MAYBE there is some correlation between wage and pride in workmanship and quality? I for one do. Just as the folks at Simmons "know" they are producing a superior product to Serta, Sealy, et al...the folks at GM Janesville believed the same thing. They also have NUMEROUS awards that allow those beliefs to be cemented into hard FACTS. The biggest reason GM didn't yank the plug on Janesville long ago was because of their quality.

And, furthermore, pink, I only brought up Simmons to prove a point: there are folks who work in a factory, OUTSIDE of the UAW, in JANESVILLE who make a decent buck. And, who are also receiving more than the "regular" UEC that other displaced workers are getting.

Take it how you want to...good, bad or indifferent. The facts are the facts.

also entry level employees (i am assuming tose coming in at the lower wage) are also not able to take the offer

its being offered to all but a few plants and once you take it if you have enough years to retire you are retired if you don't have enough you sever all ties no you do not still get uc and sub

I must have missed something along the way...Is this proposed buyout being offerred to ALL GM EMPLOYEES, regardless if they are currently laid off or not, and, if taken, can these people still receive unemployment/SUB pay??

It`s all been beaten to death.. We can all agree to disagree.. Let`s just hope- and I mean hope, that the Janesville area somehow gets back on track.. I love this area/community, have lived here 44 years.. It is crumbling like a house of cards. Everyday business`s are closing or laying off. I really don`t see how everyone is to survive in this area- but best wishes to us all!

AWWW come on...

Wont someone feel sorry for me? I'm a Realtor!! Now that sucks!!

All joking aside,we all have it tough. My husband is a GM'er as well(ya,I know,sucks). We all will somehow get by,(how? I have know idea).Think Spring!!!

Now...who wants to buy a house!!! LOL! Call me!

hey diplomat, for your information $45k is a lot of money. That's a years salary for MANY MANY people. A great number of companies only pay up to 12 weeks of severance. $45k is GREAT. You also seem to indicate that all GM employees are somehow entitled to at least a Cadillac. Exactly how do you come to that conclusion? I dont think most people are mad that fired GM employees may get a car, we are mad that somehow we have to pay for it.

And when I say combining the two offers, I am including the fact that the post-tax value of the cash buyout portion will only be roughly 50%.

I completely agree with 14ISNTENOUGH. Now the rest of you should read that post and hopefully it can be a starting point to educate yourself on this whole economic mess as a whole. You should be more outraged at the financial institutions than your neighbor because he gets a car voucher and a buyout check. If your neighbor combines the two offers, it won’t cover the MSRP on the cheapest Cadillac for crying out loud. It is not a lucrative deal for the GM employee.

I feel sorry for the GM workers and those that are calling them "overpaid" are jealous they couldn't get jobs there! Atleast they are offering their employees some benefits rather than just throwing them out on their behinds with nothing. The only problem that I have concerns the schooling. Blackhawk Tech has made some "special" programs especially for GM workers. It is unfair to give them special treatment while other students wait to get into a program especially since these folks are coming from having great paying jobs! I'm not sure if thats more of a Blackhawk problem versus GM but I'm sure the school funding runs out in a certain amount of time so Blackhawk is trying to get them in and out.

evansvillesportsfan,

You think $20K and a $25K vehicle voucher is "big bucks"? Get out Evansville once and a while. That is not a lot of money at all. I would hate to see the shock on your face if you went down to Chicago and saw how people with real money lived.

evansvillesportsfan...my comment was based on your specific comment "When I read that $2000 off the top of the new car price goes to retirement and health benefits that was the end!!!"

I don't work at GM...never did...and I wasn't whining.

Obviously you can choose to buy what you want, and for any reason you want...but to state THAT reason shows you are without a clue.

But you can take solace in the fact that you sre not alone....sadly.

When we have a strong economy companies can afford to be wasteful and still stay in business. They can ignore market research. They can pay for employees to take wild Las Vegas vacations. CEOs can fly on brand new private jets and take huge bonuses. With a strong economy unions can use strong-arm tactics to get as much as possible for their paying members. Having a strong economy means the union can largely ignore a company’s claims of financial trouble. Companies and unions CHOOSE to act in such a manner.
The economy does not choose to be good or bad. The state of the economy is the net result of hundreds/thousands of factors. There is not some lonely guy running the economy machine who decides to turn a dial from "good economy" to "bad economy". Yes, the government can help push the economy, but can’t really control it.
When GM and the auto union chose to continue making these bad decisions, THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN AWARE OF THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS. The economy was turning bad and both GM and the union kept choosing “business as usual”. The failing economy may have been the start of GMs problems but the fault lies with GM management policies and the Union demands.

MOMOF5...SO WHERE DO YOU GET OFF THINKING THAT SIMMONS EMPLOYEES ARE ALL PAID $25/HR... NOT EVERYONE THAT WORKS AT SIMMONS MAKES THAT! IF YOU ARE MAKING THAT OR ABOVE THAT YOU SURE DONT HAVE AN EASY BUM AROUND JOB..YOU ARE CONSTANTLY BUSTING YOUR BUTT TO EARN EVERY PENNY OF IT! SO ON THAT NOTE IM PRETTY SURE EACH AND EVERYONE OF THEIR EMPLOYEES HAS EVERY RIGHT TO P*$$ AWAY THEIR MONEY IN WHATEVER WAY SHAPE OR FORM THEY PLEASE! IM NOT TO SURE WHERE YOU GET OFF JUDGING WHAT PEOPLE DO WITH THEIR MONEY! IF YOUR SO UNHAPPY WITH YOUR SIMMONS MATTRESS AND DONT AGREE WITH HOW MUCH THE EMPLOYEES MAKE THEN JUNK YOUR BED AND GO BUY A SERTA OR SEALY! AFTERALL SIMMONS CO. OR ANY SIMMONS EMPLOYEES FEELINGS WOULDNT BE HURT WHEN SIMMONS IS THE NUMBER ONE BEDDING COMPANY! IDE BE THRILLED TO KNOW WHO YOUR TALKING ABOUT THAT P*$$ES AWAY THEIR MONEY AS WELL...I KNOW A FEW PEOPLE WHO ARE EMPLOYED THERE MYSELF!

The difference, of course, is that a buyout is actually restructuring (reducing) the company's future obligations, which is a requirement of these bailout loans.

Wow, like I said.............whine, whine, whine!!! John Doe, if I just like to hear myself spout off you would see me in print daily and that is just not true. I could have
gone on and on about CEO's and other items but this blog was about the plant. It is shameful that they are taking bailout money and then buying off workers for big bucks. Time for GM to come into the real world.

To all of you complaining abot your tax dollars paying for this: I hope you were just as outraged when the banks took billions of dollars to pay out bonuses & send their employees to the spa. The CEO from Merill Lynch got a job at Bank of America & spent $1 million redecorating his new office. That's a bit much. The cash offer at GM will barely cover the taxes on the car& cash. I guess they want to make sure we have a car to live in when more homes go into foreclosure. And no, I'm not even close to that happening because I don't own a big fancy house, a boat, do drugs or go to the bar as some one suggested all GM employees do. (different post last week)No one is asking you to feel sorry for us poor GM workers, just don't expect us to feel sorry for you.

IT'S LEAR NOT LEER!!!!!!!!

evansvillesportsfan...since you have an aversion to the cost of the product contributing to the welfare of the assembler...or at least in some denomination...just wondering if you know the ratio of cost vs health/retirement benefit of the vehicle you intend to buy to replace the GM vehicle you won't buy?

Or does it just feel good to spout off?

And, just out of curiosity...did you do your homework to see what part of the cost of the vehicle you intend to buy goes toward the CEO's bonus and retirement?

Didn't think so....

wow i guess that means for every 10 cars sold i have 32 cents going into my retirement and healthcare geeze i guess i should quit buying gm cars too (not)

The union has given concessions in the last two contracts, and now again with the jobs bank. And, you don`t know yet what else will be asked of them. Labor costs at GM last year were 6% of income, hardly the main problem. If every one had worked for free, the company would still have lost about $17 billion. The union is being used as a scapegoat for all the industries problems when the financial facts say otherwise.

My husband and I have always driven GM cars and
SUV's but NO MORE!!! The economy is terrible and the autoworkers make little or no concessions. When I read that $2000 off the top of the new car price goes to retirement and health benefits that was the end!!! What is the difference between a puppy and a GM worker? Eventually the puppy quits whining!!!

woodsman please link me where i said that LSI would be there if GM wasnt? Well if you can that is? brain dead are you?

Amen to The joker and to ttyl1033. Nice to see some people here who have brains. I'd rather be hated for speaking my mind and the truth rather to being liked for being a follower and conformist

What if the government instead of bailing out the auto industry bailed out all those who are out of work and do not have the "Package" that the auto workers have? What I am saying is match the length of time you can recieve unemployment, insurance coverage, schooling, ect. that the average newly out of work auto worker gets. Would that make less haters, or unemployed auto workers think they deserve more?

And teachers should take a pay freeze. WOW!

Thank-you Ozzman!!

xlsi: Worth repeating,if their wasn't G.M.,their wouldn't have been a LSI OR LEER ,you just don't listen! Brain dead are we??

wake all you former Gmer's , subpay will be gone it's just a matter of time...

I have owned GM cars all my life and have never had the problems that everyone keeps complaining about. I have no ties to the Janesville Plant but I wish that they would bring in a new product. People should be happy that we had an employer like GM in the area which benefitted everyone (increased tax revenue, charitable giving, third party employers, pride and increased dining and shopping options).

"Circumstantial provisions in the contract, however, would extend the worker-supported SUB pay beyond 48 weeks." Does any one know what this means? Or is this the new Job Bank?

Chiller... that was so funny! Thanks for the laugh of the day. However, I think I'd rather see if I could get a Harley instead. Would you? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

If I take the buy out this time, is it possible to use the voucher to buy one of those cool toyota tundras?

Kleej~ That was the best post I've ever read in this blogsite. You've helped me re-evaluate the way I look at things and it's really been a blessing in my life. Thank you.

xlsi: LSI are the ones I truly feel sorry for. Lear employees, if they did it right, are doing just fine. They ALL qualified for 2 years of FREE schooling. It wasn't a state thing to coddle them or a UAW thing to shaft management. It was a federal deal because 4 jobs from the weld shop were outsourced to Canada last year. Because of that, the ENTIRE plant qualified for the program. Pretty sure that SIMMONS MATTRESS also has folks in the displaced worker program and are having their schooling paid for.

I know someone who worked for Lear and is now in school full-time. Tuition? Paid in full. Books? Paid in full. Pens, paper, pencils, calculators, etc? Paid in full. Uniforms or other necessary equipment related to you passing school? Paid in full. UEC benefits are AUTOMATICALLY extended to 30 months (24 for most) provided you maintain full-time status and do not fail any classes.

I know people who work at Simmons and pi^& their money away more than ANY GM employee I ever met. And, when I found out the reason my mattress was nearly $1000 was because the employees were paid OVER $25/hr to do it....

It's just like Brett Favre. Some loved him. Some hated him. Some couldn't wait for him to be gone: others dreaded the day. But, now that he is gone, people are STILL bashing him...and those people will still be bashing him 10 years from now for all the shoulda, coulda and woulda's.

I read every single post on this thread. Every single one. NOT ONCE did I read a GM'er complain or look for a handout. On the other hand, there were others (grandprixgirl) who were complaining and looking for handouts: albeit passive aggressively.

Let's say that GM has 100 workers out on UEC right now. Let's also say that WITH insurance benefits, sub pay and UEC insurance, it costs GM $4000/month to keep each of those workers on the books. That is $400k a month in "dead payroll." Multiply that by 12 months and you come to 4.8 MILLION. If you can get half of the laid off workers to take the buy out at 45k (which, come on, the car voucher? like GM isn't going to make money on that deal), you would be saving yourself 150k IMMEDIATELY. Couple in the "profit" from the car voucher sale, 2 years on UEC AND other costs (those who decide to retire while being laid off). It's not a lot of money, no. But, like the old saying goes, a penny saved is a penny earned. They can turn that initial savings of 150k into another investment or product exploration project. Pretty soon, with enough fat being trimmed off, a leaner and more efficient machine will emerge on the other side.

GM workers just be glad you didn't work for LSI or Leer. What did they get again?

darius-That article sums it all up. Enough said.

"How did GM and the UAW fail me?"

By building crappy cars for years, driving customers to foreign brands. GM (and Ford) road the SUV gravy train for far to long, while Toyota, Honda, and Nissan, etc, kicked their but developing outstanding, reliable small cars. GM North America has been losing market share for more than eight years, and was failing even before the housing bubble burst. Of course, the GM appologists will blame everything but the company.

ihavealife, why do I care? Because my tax dollars are being wasted propping up a company that was already on the road to failure. They are already bankrupt. GM employees are still being laid off, so instead of an orderly Chapter 11 REORGANIZATION, we have this mess. You'll say that people won't buy cars from a bankrupt company, but guess what, THEY AREN'T BUYING CARS ANYWAY! More plants will close, more people will be laid off, and all tax payers will have is a worthless I.O.U. from a company that should have been fixed a year ago.

This is an outstanding article that totally fits the subject! enjoy.....
http://orrinwoodward.blogharbor.com/blog...

garyprimer- Those exact thoughts were ringing through my head when I heard about this buyout plan! I'm glad you had the guts to post it!
When you think about it, it's absurd the level of intelligence and the mindset of the people of this country. When the folks came over on the Mayflower, the last thing they were looking for is a handout...they were grateful for their opportunity to start a new life and were happy to work their fingers to the bone.
The current society's mindset is "what's in it for me and what can I get for nothing"?? While I do have EMPATHY for the workers at GM, I don't have sympathy for them, for I was one of them! I made the choice to change and move on before the ship sank and everyone of my co-workers had the same opportunity. It doesn't make me any better than anyone else by any means, but I'm not reliant on any govt. aid now to support my lifestyle and I'll never be walking on eggshells wondering if I'll have a pension tomorrow either. The point here is, it's not up to our govt. to take care of us! It's up to US to care of us! We all make choices in life and we do it of free will. Nobody forced me or anyone else to work for GM or anywhere else, we make those choices, therefore, we have the ability to change and make different choices to fulfill our lives. This doesn't just apply to GM workers, it applies to every individual out there! Two guarantees in life...CHANGE and DEATH, yet so many people fight what they can't control rather than control what they can.... THEMSELVES. God bless all in these trying times.

If by paying people to retire, or just quit working for GM is paying people "not to work," you would be right. But, GM is doing what the government mandated when they got the loans, cutting costs. There are , literally, millions of people in this country making as much, or more, than GM employees that don`t have a degree. Construction workers, plumbers,mail carriers, aircraft manufacturers, government employees( you can be president without a degree),firefighters, writers, athletes, performers, etc. Teachers have advanced degrees, yet in this state we have restricted their ability to raise their wages beyond a small amount, no matter how well the economy is doing. I can understand some of the bitterness out there because over half the taxpayers in this country make $35,000 or less. But that is not GM`s, or the UAW`s, fault. One other thing to ponder, the war in Iraq is costing us taxpayers $10-12 billion a MONTH! Shortly to be a trillion dollar war. Let`s hear a little outrage over that!

I really feel the love in here today. I hope everyone can voice their opinions in here and follow the rules. Which I just read all of the posts and everyone pretty much did follow the rules. And I noticed that the spelling police must be taking a break.......good I'm so happy they aren't in here right now. See life is so good......everyone take the advice from Beeferer and.....Come on you guys, let's just settle down now. Take a deep breath. Group hug?
There don't we all feel better now? Anyways lets all just keep the comments comming cause that is what the blog here is for.......
Enough of this book.......
STAY SAFE!!!!!!

Corpulent ones...

And cats...

chickens

What are we talking about again?

It is no wonder that our economy is in trouble when a failing major corporation thinks that it can save itself by borrowing money from the taxpayers and use it to pay people not to work. What is wrong with this business plan? Anyone?

There is plenty of blame to go around for the situation that our economy is in. The government and Wall Street being on the top of the list. The residual fall out of those two entities' failures has got the country worked up and angry. And much like this thread, everyone is acting like a flock of chickens fighting over the last kernel of corn. Their fault, His fault, Your fault. And just like the chickens, the first one to bleed feels the wrath of all the other chickens, in this case the auto industry. And all the while, the fat cats on wall street laugh all the way to their off shore bank accounts.

Just because I don't agree with you does not mean that my words are without thought.

Yes, it wouldn't count if they were on-line degrees. Both degrees are from the University of Wisconsin.

Read the books and any books related to our current situation - and then we can talk. Empty words without educated thought is not relevant.

For everyone that is sick of the GM whining - AKA "Haters" - it is pointless for us to try to reason with them. It is a well known fact that many local and non-local employers frown upon hiring former GM workers since they are so out of touch with reality in terms of wage, benefits and work ethic. We should be happy that we still have some common sense about us and try to help the local economy as much as we can.

joker not everyone at the plant felt like gm owed them i for one felt more like gm owned me they got more of my waking hours then my own family and for the people complaining about our wages think about the pure profit gm was making on their suv's especially back in the day when they were selling and how many we were putting out. after the first 20 of the year that i built gm already had a pure profit to cover my wages and benefits for the entire year

A degree that you earn in 2 weeks from an online course doesn't count Joan.

I don't need a clue. I have an MBA, and a BS in Political Science. I also have read 4 books on the recent economic collapse.

These books - which I completely recommend include:

Crash Proof: by Peter Schiff
Wealth and Democracy: Kevin Phillips (very textbook like but worth it)
Bad Money: Kevin Phillips again but more recent than the other
The Trillion Dollar Meltdown: Charles Morris

almeg - who said I need to blame my employer for anything? I make a great wage and I believe I am paid what I am worth. I do believe that I should make more than the average factory worker - and in most cases I would assume that I do. I never said that any factory worker is "lowly" -that is your comment. I think that education should be rewarded - it sounds as if that is the case for you (or was the case). You have a degree to fall back on - but many of your co-workers do not - but they still feel that they are owed something more than what everyone else is owed. I am not bashing people who choose not to go to college - that is everyone's choice to make for themselves. But don't sit and whine when the factory doors close and you have no education to fall back on.

Gandalf...yes, yes, yes,

Joan- I agree with you! Don't forget when you say it's the governments fault, that's a direct reflection on the citizens of this country. WE make up the govt. of the United States. You are totally correct when you say we need to unite. There's no common ground anymore amongst the govt. or the citizens of this country. Somewhere in the middle of all this chaos, deception and corruption is something called "truth". Until the people of this country rally around that principle, we're headed for a crash landing.

ttyl1023- I am a GM employee with a college degree. There are a lot GM workers with college degrees! One of my former co-workers had a masters degree. If autoworkers are paid more than you with your degree, then blame your employer, not the GM worker. As for the "entitlement attitude" you think GM workers have, sounds to me like you have that issue. Because you have a degree you are "entitled" to make more than some lowly factory worker. I don't see any GM workers "whining", just those that don't work there.

Joan - get a clue.

Joker- I can't believe I'm saying this, but, well said!

Amen Joker!

Gandolf - well said!

You know, plumbers have been overpaid for years. My goodness, I could go to a doctor and pay the same hourly rate. I can see why they are out of work. If they weren't so greedy, letting people pay them that high wage..... Of course I am kidding. I am not evil! God bless us all who have troubles! God bless the haters who blog here - may you change your ways before it's too late.

Who's to blame? Let's all come together, sing kumbaya and proclaim the truth: It's of course - the corrupt government!

Government who let investment bankers lose all of their money on securities and other bets they made on mortgages completely collapsed our economy. Our Government, including Obama, gave Wall Street $700 billion as a reward. And Obama said this auto bailout wouldn't be on the backs of the workers. Well in Janesville it sure is. Where's our help Obama? Not a single George Bush pen mark has been stricken from the bailout agreement. Shame!

Haters- it's about supporting one another, regardless of income or social status, race or gender. I suppose you haters go to rich people's funerals and heckle them and say - "Hey - you've got it better than me! Quit your crying about your dead husband.....". See, this is what you are doing here.

Now haters, it's not too late for you to change your ways. Join us now in blaming our government for losing a plumber job or GM job who cares we're all middle class anyways so:

WORKERS UNITE! Don't attack each others - that's just what the real rich want.

Ok, I cannot resist. I need to jump in and bring some sanity and common sense to this thread.

Grandprix girl, I am in total agreement with you! You could not of said it better.

Localboy, wow, I agree with your comment on 40 hours of pay for hours of work. My wisdom must be rubbing off on you.

To all those who buy into the GM workers are entitled to certain things because of their union or contracts, get over yourselves. Quit thinking you are more deserving than others. You wonder why there are so many GM bashers on this site? It is your entitlement mentality!!
Contracts and agreements can and will be broken. And face it, UAW and GM failed you.

Bottom line, get over it, move on and good luck! Many others, including some in Janesville, have it a lot worse.

woodsman - just because many of us feel that GM workers are overpaid for their skills does not mean we are "haters" as you continue to post. I don't hate anyone at GM - it is not the individuals that irritate everyone it is the "entitlement" attitude that so many current/former GM employees carry around with them. That somehow they are "owed" something more than the average American worker. Why should a college graduate make less than someone with a high school diploma? That makes no sense and that is why people - "haters" as you like to call them are sick and tired of all the whining from GM workers. You were LUCKY to get such great pay and benefits for so many years. The gravy train cannot and will not last forever - so you can call us all "haters" - but at the end of the day I still have a job and a degree - what do you have?

i do understand grandprixgirls' (Feb 3, 2009 at 10:11 a.m) frustrations. i do however, hope she realizes that at a local level, the Janesville GM plant as well as its local suppliers shutting down is a VERY, VERY large cause of all our local layoffs. regardless of the countries economic situations, if the Janesville Plant stayed up and running, our local economy wouldn't be near as bad and her husband may still be working. fyi- i'm not a GMer......never have been. and if u think it's bad now, wait til' they do away with the "Sub Pay"...........we haven't seen anything yet folks.

People all of the blame is on NAFTA plain and simple America sold it's soul to the Devil.

It is possible to look for a new job (one that would require less twisting and bending)while still staying employed. There are plenty of other jobs out there that offer great health insurance.
________________

I don't disagree with you, but once our child got sick, we had to stay with the insurance (and job) that we had because no other insurance would take on the liability of the pre-existing condition that racked up nearly $2 million in medical bills.

I suggest EVERY person that has or ever will get a raise,give it back,because evidently you think no one deserves it,even one self! A lot of people in the eyes of these hypocrites make too much money. You haters should really of loved G.M. being here,THEY KEPT YOUR TAXES DOWN,now look out!!!

Gandalf most be a GM worker or a republican

grandprixgirl: your statement was true and to the point. I and many others have your back

I don't blame the workers of GM. I blame GM and the Unions for all those years of overly high wages and benefits payed out, which eventualy caught up to them. I'm sure that if these people knew they would be out of a job because of this, they would have accepted less along the way.GM through the years was too wasteful with their money and now they got burnt! So anybody out there complaining about the workers, you can't tell me wouldn't have taken offer too!!!

What's going on with the teachers. Let's bash them awile. After that maybe we could bash the city council then, move right into relegion, snow plowing, smoking, Rotary Gardens, the way people spell, drugs, basically all the things that make the simpletons argue amoungst themselves.
God Bless America!

Zoom wrote-"I'm continually amazed at the loyalty some GM workers (or spouses) have for GM, even after they have been laid off (probably permanently). Where is the outrage for the GM and UAW management that failed you?"
How did GM and the UAW fail me? By laying me off? They are NOT resposible for the state of the economy! How many other companies have layed off their employees? Compared to them we have it great!

Take a deep breath. Group hug? Now let’s bash Chrysler. :) Good plan, I like it.

On the plus side if people take the buyouts then these companies might be able to cut costs where they believe it will help and if we all are lucky they will recover and turn a profit in the future which will allow them to pay the government loans back. I believe that them being able to pay back the government the money that we invested in our tax dollars would be a good thing. I am keeping my fingers crossed that they can find a way to do that.

may-be people should check out an article from the latin american herald tribune according to the article gm is investing 1 billion in brazil and guess where the money is coming from thats right says its coming from U.S. rescue fund. so maybe instead of people complaining about gm trying to buyout their us autoworkers they should be complaining about their tax $$$ going overseas

The article above is about GM, not Chrysler or the TARP loans. I'm sure if the Gazette published an article about Chrysler, there would be similar comments.

I'm continually amazed at the loyalty some GM workers (or spouses) have for GM, even after they have been laid off (probably permanently). Where is the outrage for the GM and UAW management that failed you? Will you still be so loyal to GM when your SUB pay runs out, or your pension is cut in half?

Um, people? Why are you hypocrites continually bashing G.M.? Shouldn't you be on here bashing Chrysler? They're offering more than double what G.M. is offering. But some of you are so hell-bent on G.M. bashing that you are incapable of being rational. Come on you guys, let's just settle down now. Take a deep breath. Group hug?

Ok I get it, anyone who disagrees with GM automatically becomes a HATER. Great way to articulate your frustration but does nothing to improve peoples opinion of GM

First off, people need to lay off granprixgirl. She has an opinion and, like the rest of you, she's entitled to it.

I'm not going to complain, I'm just going to share. My mother and father were both factory workers - not at GM, but at factories just the same. My mother has sciatica (look it up) and my father had back and knee problems his entire life because of work on a cement floor all day. Both broke their backs to put food on the table. However, together, they barely brought home $27,000 a year.

My folks insisted that I go to college, so I did. But we never had money to save, so I didn't. I took out a bank loan (somehow didn't qualify for student aid) and got my degree in communications. In the meantime, my friends got factory jobs. While I was "investing in my future," they were buying motorcycles and boats, driving souped-up trucks and taking vacations. I worked hard to get good grades, struggled for cash and, upon graduation, went to work to pay off my loans to the tune of $300 a month (which I did for nine years). They got "seniority."

When I graduated, I found a job paying me $25,000. Good money at the time. But today, in my early 40s, I make less than $40,000 a year as a college graduate.

Now here's the rub: Up until they were laid off recently, a good number of factory-types in Janesville were making more, with overtime, than I CAN. And I'm not talking about the 20- and 30-year GM people. I'm talking about folks who took a half hour to fill out an application rather than four years to earn a degree.

Am I bitter? Maybe. But mostly I'm thankful. I have a job (for now), and at least I use the degree I paid for. My only gripe is it would be nice to be a little higher on the income rung than a sanitation worker, but my career is what it is.

So in closing, sorry to hear of your plight grandprixgirl and the rest of you that are suffering. As for the GM folks, I'm sorry you lost your jobs, too. In this economy, no one can afford to be out of work because there are no jobs.

But those of you who have been fortunate enough to be backed for years by a strong union, allowing you to collect a large paycheck with little intellectual investment, please stop complaining now because your former entitlements are drying up.

Some of us have been struggling for more than the past month.

almeg: I see someone is seeing where the true anger should be.The best & smartest post yet! Love thy neighbor,like you would like to be loved,and treated.Think about it HATERS!!!

PERFECTLY said, cvtdanelvr!!! PERFECTLY!!!

no, all bailouts are wrong, bad, and anti-American in my book. They are all worthy of outrage! My tax money is being wasted by our current form of crooked government.

I will be so happy when all this GM crap is out of the news and out of the papers. I'm so tired of reading about the "poor workers". So many other community members have it much worse than the GM folks with their employment situations, and you don't see them getting coddled or getting attention from the media. GM closing is an unfortunate turn for Janesville, but in some cases a well deserved reality check for the factory workers.

almeg two wrongs don't make a right. Most of us are outraged at the bank fiasco too thats a lame excuse to justify bilking taxpayers to pay GM employees

I understand everyone's outrage at the government giving the automakers a loan, but compared to what they gave the banks and AIG with no accounting of what it was spent on, then to give them more when they asked again, I have to wonder where your outrage is at that! What the automakers got was pocket change campared to how many billions the financial sector got. And what have they done with it? That is where your outrage should be directed!

Good old Generous Motors. If GM wanted to spend their money, fine, but spending my money irks me. But I'm sure the money spent for this buyout does not come from the bailout money..... The quicker GM folds, the better. It will cost me less money, and help to wean off the bottle babies.

So that is where my tax payer dollars are going. Lets look at this:

-We pay our taxes
-GM management and UAW both suck
-GM needs my money to survive (if they are lucky)
-GM takes my money and gives it to the poor overpaid factor workers.

Heck of a plan, where do I sign up to get some of my own money back???

I know I simplified things a bit but this is a load of crap. My money to help GM get rid of overpaid workers! Does anyone else see a problem with that?
______________________________________________
I do! I do!

It is possible to look for a new job (one that would require less twisting and bending)while still staying employed. There are plenty of other jobs out there that offer great health insurance. Face it - all the GM workers were/are overpaid and now the rest of us taxpayers have to shell out MORE MONEY to offer these $20,000 cash buyouts and cars. This is ridiculous. Enough said.

ttyl1023 - maybe he would have looked for another job if not for the need for health insurance to cover the catastrophic illness that hit our family in 2005 that cost us a child. I'm not looking for anyone to feel sorry for him. He's using his time wisely during the layoff and going to school to get training for a new career. I'm not going to argue with the likes of you who claim that he was "overpaid as it was". Everyone has a right to their own opinion and you certainly have yours. Enough said.

ha ha! Most times, I just read the posts here--and laugh...or roll my eyes at some of the comments... now, Im doing both.
Go find another victim...all I did was post my opinion...which I thought this was here for us to do just that. Im not jealous..Im not whining..Im not angry..im not anything.
And..uhh..Woodsman...so I sense a bit of jealousy on YOUR part??? Huh??
and oh, my... Gandalf.. Ive not noticed your posts before...you certainly have a...ahh..rather eloquent way of expressing yourself-at the expense of others. Interesting....
I cant wait to see you take on your next victim!

BeenThereDoneThat - if your husband had so many back problems then he should have found a new job - don't expect anyone to feel sorry for him - he was overpaid as it was.

laughwuvlive - how is it an insult? Frankly - I feel you are lucky to be offered anything at this point.

grandprixgirl, I also AM talking about GM. The back injuries that I spoke of were from working at GM. You mentioned that "the GM workers have it made"...but in my husband's case, at what cost? All because he wanted to make a decent living.

So that is where my tax payer dollars are going. Lets look at this:
-We pay our taxes
-GM management and UAW both suck
-GM needs my money to survive (if they are lucky)
-GM takes my money and gives it to the poor overpaid factor workers.
Heck of a plan, where do I sign up to get some of my own money back???
I know I simplified things a bit but this is a load of crap. My money to help GM get rid of overpaid workers! Does anyone else see a problem with that?
________
I do but everytime I point out these same things I'm called a basher or accused of being jealous.

So that is where my tax payer dollars are going. Lets look at this:

-We pay our taxes
-GM management and UAW both suck
-GM needs my money to survive (if they are lucky)
-GM takes my money and gives it to the poor overpaid factor workers.

Heck of a plan, where do I sign up to get some of my own money back???

I know I simplified things a bit but this is a load of crap. My money to help GM get rid of overpaid workers! Does anyone else see a problem with that?

I am SO SICK of the way GM coddles their laid off employees!! My god! My husband is a laid off plumber--and he wasnt offered a THING! Just one day..he was done. No free CAR...no huge payout. NOTHING. Just a "thank you very much"..and a "we are so sorry..good luck". Thats it. We are struggling. And the over paid GM workers now are offered thousands of dollars AND a very expensive car?!?! Sorry, but its hard for me, who is having trouble paying the bills AND buying groceries, to have any pity for the GM employees at all. Amen

grandpixgirl: All i have to say is go whine somewhere else. Your husband as a plumber made REAL good money,didn't ya put any away like you expected the G.M. workers to do? Sell some of your TOYS!!! P.S. Maybe he should've been a G.M. plumber LOL

But grandprixgirl-I believe your husband became a plumber because of what he wished to do, what it meant to him, and what he thought that future offered him? No union that the company bargained with where he was guaranteed anything, right? He didn't go to GM because he wasn't interested, right? Well, GM workers became GM workers because of what they wished to do, what it meant to them, and what they thought that future offered them. That included a union that GM bargained with which offered certain things to workers which were paid for by the workers and now rescinded. These buyouts are in part to work around their not being able to keep these promises.
Two different employers, two different sets of circimstances.

Not envious, not jealous--(cant say we arent miserable tho!) just simply stating that other laid off workers arent offered what GM workers are offered-and I have no sympathy for them.
Plain. Simple, and to the point.

40 hours of pay, for 40 hours of work. Anything else is a bonus or benefit. Benefits vary greatly from company to company. No sympathy here to the GM worker who does not take this or complains that they are getting screwed. I also don't have sympathy for the worker who is envious of the GM worker. Life is a long trip, don't get caught up in the short drive.....

Hey, Beenthere--Im sorry to hear about your husband...but I dont get the connection...we are talking about GM.
I dont have the time to feel sorry for myself..so you are wrong on that one.
I simply stated that one day my husband had a job-the next he was done-- with nothing more than a pat on the back. Thats it.
I read about GM..and now this possible offer of money and a car-and its simply impossible for me feel much sympathy for them. I was simply saying that there are people laid off every day that arent offered cars and LOTS of money...they dont make the news..its just a cutoff of the paycheck and its over.

grandprixgirl...And my husband's back injuries that have left him in chronic pain for the rest of his life from 13 years of repetitive bending and twisting to earn a decent paycheck...you suppose he endured all that just because he wanted a job where "he had it made"? Go feel sorry for yourself somewhere else.

The funds for the last buyout came from the pension fund. The SUB fund will run out, sooner or later, it has before. The lower seniority workers will lose it first, eventually everybody will. If the stimulus passes, the unemployment will be extended more than 26 weeks, and it could be $25 higher. Even if it doesn`t pass, unemployment will probably be extended.

to Gandalf... oh...pul-eeeze! I need to "channel my thoughts more positively"??!?!
I live in the real world! Where are you??? Its hard to do that right now!
The GM workers have it made-laid off or not-compared to ANY other laid off person from ANY other company. Plain and simple.

Beenthere...you are right. Nobody knows whats going on. As far as I know this isn't even "official" yet just information from "sources"

Windsor, we're still not sure how long we are going to be getting paid for...that's part of what is keeping us on edge lately.

Grandprixgirl....I understand how you are feeling, but you have to remember it is a far lower buyout offer than we had last year (before they told us the plant was closing) and far less money than they technically owe us under our contract which is basically being shredded.

whoanellie-the meaning of "broke" for you and me could mean either we are down to our last dollar and nothing for tomorrow, or it could mean we only had enough for the very short-term forseeable future-I'm sure when a huge company says they are broke it means they can see the end of their money, but they haven't got there yet. I'm thinking that a plan action BEFORE you're down to your last actual dollar is preferrable than waiting until you're actually that far gone. I'm supposing.

Regarding the following in this article: "Circumstantial provisions in the contract, however, would extend the worker-supported SUB pay beyond 48 weeks." Does this mean the JOBS bank is gone but everyone keeps getting pay and benefits indefinitely anyway?

I thought GM was broke? Where are they coming up with this money?? They also are coming back to washington dc for another handout soon. I don't fault them for wanting to be good to their employees, but are we going to have to fund this as taxpayers?? I want a buyout for my husband if he gets laid off, do you think the government will fund that for me? no way! Is Gm lying or are they really in trouble or not???

So nobody really knows what's going on.

Interesting...both of those stories are on the same website about 3 hours apart and they say two different things. I have to say that is the only place I've heard about it only being for workers 50 and over though.

That buy out is an insult to GM workers, I hope no one takes it.

It states it differently here:
http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs....

Here's your link, Zoom. This article clearly states in the third paragraph that the GM buyout is only for 50+ age, 10+ seniority workers. Not to say that the facts in this article are correct...

http://www.journalgazette.net/apps/pbcs....

I am SO SICK of the way GM coddles their laid off employees!! My god! My husband is a laid off plumber--and he wasnt offered a THING! Just one day..he was done. No free CAR...no huge payout. NOTHING. Just a "thank you very much"..and a "we are so sorry..good luck". Thats it. We are struggling. And the over paid GM workers now are offered thousands of dollars AND a very expensive car?!?! Sorry, but its hard for me, who is having trouble paying the bills AND buying groceries, to have any pity for the GM employees at all.

"The Fort Wayne newspaper is also reporting that the only workers eligible for the GM buyout are those who are 50+ years old with 10+ years' seniority."

Link please...or is that just a rumor? All other outlets, including the Detroit Free Press, are reporting most of GM's 62,000 UAW members are expected to get the buyout offers.

You may be getting things confused with the Chrysler offer, which is offering more to workers with 10+ years seniority. GM is not.

The Fort Wayne newspaper is also reporting that the only workers eligible for the GM buyout are those who are 50+ years old with 10+ years' seniority.

"The companies can leave the jobs vacant for now, then fill them later with new workers who can be paid about half of the $28 per hours that current employees make."

In principle, yes, but GM and Chrysler won't have to start replacing workers until sales inprove significantly, which will be a very long time. This latest buyout effort is just window dressing to satisfy requirements of the bailout provisions, and will do nothing to make either company viable in the short term.