goodbye job banks. Now, GM needs to get rid of Saturn, Saab, Hummer, and GMC trucks. Come on, GMC truck division is identical in almost everyway as Chevy trucks except the front grill and rear tailgate badge. Same engine, transmission, interior features, etc.. GM has way too much repetitive models competing with one another and none of these similar models offer any real advantages over the rest. I have even heard of GM getting rid of Pontiac division which comes as somewhat of a shock to me.

We are so glad GM went out of business. Thats what happens when the union takes and takes for so many years with jobs a 1st grader could do.

Just a guy, like I said, I never worked at GM. If I did, no, I would not be crying a different story. I would move on and find another job. What makes GM workers so special? What makes you think they are entitled to more than the average worker?

Your elitist attitude makes you an easy target for those "GM bashers". Get over yourself.

meistew47 brought up a good point..."why do gm employees (do) not have to do a job search to get their unemployment like everyone else?"

Can anyone answer this?

laughwuvlive - "No way will I take the buy out GM is offering, have they lost there mind? This is an insult I hope no one takes it."

what might not be good for you, might be the right thing for someone else. after all, If "Sub Pay" is gone in March, wouldn't it be a smart move? straight unemployment at $355/week is less than $10k at it's full duration of 6 months. it really stinks for you folks as well as the entire community that this is happening, but at some point you have to understand whats going on and be realistic.

oh my, where to begin......lol. i understand the dismay and truely do feel for all that are involved in the GM fiasco. i work for a huge utility and word has it from our union that due to consumers cutting back and customer loss (GM and it's suppliers), there will be a 20% - 30% layoff this spring. in the Midwest thats about 70,000 $60,000.00/year jobs. So, the effects of this plant shutdown are far from over........especially if they GM workers lose "Sub Pay", which i beleive will happen to show the government that the union and company are working together.

>>>>>Before we get too far into this let`s understand, the union never asked for the jobs bank program. It was offered by GM in1984 for the reason stated by schulist. It was modeled after the Japanese program, which they continue. In Japan you have a job for life, and when laid off the government mandates at least 60% pay. The companies there traditionally pay 100%.<<<<<<

This is true BUT have you looked at Japan`s economy lately?

What buyout are they offering, laughwuvlive?

No way will I take the buy out GM is offering, have they lost there mind? This is an insult
I hope no one takes it.

I think the joker is more a fool then anything else, sounds like he's been green with envy over GM workers for years "no I didn't work at GM" but i'm sure if he did he'd be crying a different story.It's not good when anyone's job is lost and he can only talk of how much he's working and makes but i'll bet he's scratching like everyone else ... He sounds like a joker's fool to me.

I wouldn't expect SUB pay to end due to government intervention. The funds are taken out of the generous wages employees received every week, so the money is already set aside. The better question is if the SUB pay fund will run dry, due to the extraordinary amount of layoffs.

now before all you former gm employees get mad at this posting, please read the questions and answer them for me if you will. im asking because i do not know. why do gm employees do not have to do a job search to get their unemployment like everyone else? now if i have another income, i cant collect unemployment. how come gm employees can get sub pay plus unemployment? that doesnt seem right. its fine that they get their sub pay,but getting unemployment also really is draining the system. considering everyone else is expected to live on what unemployment is sending them and gm employees get two incomes. im sorry it doesnt seem right.

The GM vehicles put out today are actually top notch, quality wise, and I'm no shill for the company. Many models have beat Honda, Toyota, ext in the major car magazines, and in consumer rating magazines. They got a real bad rap from the junk they put out in the 80's, and often that's hard to over come.
.
The Buick is really what is keeping GM going, as it has rock star popularity in China, and China is about the only major economy that still has positive GDP growth, and decent consumer sales. All of the auto makers are getting hammered financially. Toyota had it's 1st quarter in the red in all of it's years as a public company! If things don't turn around soon, your going to see some major problems in the sector (way worse then they are all ready). How many times can you keep bailing out the same company? Perhaps indefinitely the way we are printing $$$ now.

They must have moved up from a beer budget...ha..ha...

Now it's a vodka bottle?

When that myth was going around years ago...it was just a beer bottle. LOL

TheJoker: atleast I can read, I suppose. I buy comic books as my way of pumping money into the economy. haha

Momo, I think one of your children has been playing with your computer. If not, I think you have been reading too many comic books.

Dearest TheJoker,

On behalf of the entire Wayne family, I would like to extend an offer for our services. Robin and I are happy and willing to help you pack, load, unload and even unpack! The batmobile has a lot of room and is ideal for moving rubbage er, belongings. We looking forward to helping rid Gotham City (fka Janesville) of another undesired resident.

Respectfully yours,
Bruce Wayne and Robin (dba The Dynamic Duo as Batman and Robin)

Hi everyone, did you miss me? Sorry I was busy working, making even more money and then spending it. I am glad to see everyone is still arguing and cutting everyone else down. Real classy Janesville. I am actually thinking of moving to Beloit where people are more civil and they have better restaurants.

Don't blame the worker for their wages and benefits... GM can afford it easily...Toyota does!!!
_______
Obviously GM can't afford it or they wouldn't be in the mess they are in. I think GM Management was skimming too. Both parties are to blame.

I think TheJoker has nothing to do but make mean comments about others!

What part of a "contract" do most of you haters not understand? Sub pay is a negotiated benefit, keeping GM from being overly greedy with its workforce. As far as unemployment goes, it is the same as any other layed off worker. No more, no less.

GM's failure is not due to hourly wages as they account for less than 10% of total costs. Where is the other 90% wasted? The issues are corporate greed, poor decision making, slow development, and rediculous business decisions.

Don't blame the worker for their wages and benefits... GM can afford it easily...Toyota does!!!

Actually, I'm pretty sure that ditchdiggers too, make more than Rocky. How do I know? I was one once and did almost as well as my GM friends...

darwin1-
Since you're the type that has to have the last word ... I'll digress and just say, "you're better than all of us in this room and far wiser than anyone on Earth." .....congratulations, we all worship you now.

So you have a ***ty job, Rocky, as you complain about others making more on unemployment than you do working full time. Get a better job so you don't have this problem.

If you can't get a better job, then consider accepting that this is your position in the world, the guy who has a ***ty job. You know the old saying, 'the world needs ditchdiggers, too.'

SarahB - certainly you aren't referring to laid off GM workers who "receive unemployment benefits at near full pay for 48 weeks". Their unemployment pays much more than my full-time job. (And - relating to another thread - is much more than many Janesville teachers). And let's not forget the free job training the state is providing. No - you must be referring to the poor souls who worked for related industries but are getting no special benefits after being let go.

mespl: It only takes one election to change our society and it already happened.

matthew: They used to have duels, slaves and women had no rights so what are talking about. Ben Franklin's philandering? Thomas Jefferson having sex with slaves? What "PRINCIPLES" are you referring to? Your long on wind and short on details.

Cool it, thediplomat. Please. Some of us can't even afford a dollar burger right now.

I think you're right Acejd93! You should have the funds to buy your own business as long as someone else doesn't get half! And of course those extra dollars you're accustomed to spend on extra-curricular activities is gone (what little was expended on her). I really am sorry that the area, the nation is experiencing such losses, but I have recent experience in that department as well!!!

darwin1-
yes, and our founding fathers were well educated intellects who were WISE enough to know that any government must have a central truth (foundation) to be built upon to hold those branches of govt. accountable. It's called PRINCIPLE'S. People like you will never admit that's the case because you're too caught up in your pride to admit you just might be wrong about something. I'm not like you. If something's not right, I'm willing to change and step out and make it right regardless of what's in it for me. I've bought into the "pride before the fall" thing and it's made life much easier. Try it sometime instead of condemning everyone with your menotenous redirect.

Love God and Love thy neighbor as thyself. :) darwin I am impressed and I think I owe you an apology. When we did the evolution debate on a different story I thought you were deadset against God but I am learning as I go and seeing more of your comments that lead me to believe that it isn't that you are against my beliefs, it is just that you have yours and I have mine and neither of us can prove them so we agree to disagree? :)

ihavealife: which company are you referring to? The mattress one?

mespl: Are you outraged by the Wall Street bailout? Or just the auto industry?

TheJoker,

If you are so successful why are you still living in Janesville? We should all idolize TheJoker, he gets the T-bone every time at Ponderosa.

darwin1: Your right I brought up price and you brought up Germany. You said “Germany has strong unions, good pay and health care. And they out export China. So, don't tell me how workers are overpaid.” My comment was that “As for Germany they have a different society and let me remind you that everything over there costs more than it does here so society as a whole pays for those benefits for one another.” I argued that it all has a price on the society in the terms of high cost of living. If you are looking at Germany for solutions then you need to change all of society and I really don’t have that much faith in you. I am looking at our society; we need to work with the society that we have and not wish that we had another society. That might be difficult for you to understand.

No, mespl if you had actually read what you wrote you would know that the price comparison was in fact brought up by you. I brought up wages, unions and exports. Try reading. I brought up China because you brought up prices. Do you have a comprehension problem? You have already decided what you want to believe and are going to ignore everything else including looking elsewhere for solutions.

Yes, matthew516 I am the anti-Christ. If people like you are in heaven that would undoubtedly make it hell. The whole basis for our political system is that power corrupts and that we must have different branches of government to ensure that no one branch becomes too powerful. Do you understand that your whining is about something that will never change. Boohoo people are corrupted by power poor me poor me. Instead of running for office and changing things you just cry like a little girl about it and stab your neighbors in the back because they deserve it. What did Jesus say about the two most important commandments?

momof5: So you blame the retired people for the problems, which is fine you can blame anyone that you want. However when it comes down to it I largely blame the auto companies. We always hear buy American autos yet a lot of them have more foreign made parts than the foreign cars do. The American Auto Companies are the ones outsourcing to foreign countries. Your Denali was one of a few that were mainly built in the states but think about this the Chevy HHR is built in Mexico and has only 41 percent American and Canadian parts. Whereas the Honda Accord which is built in Ohio is 70 percent American parts, Honda Ridgeline and Pilot assembled in US and 75% domestic parts. Toyota Sienna 85 percent, Camry 80 percent, and Tundra 80 percent US parts and made in the US. Until American Auto companies start manufacturing the parts and building all American made cars in the states what is the point. And who exactly negotiated for the retirement plans the unions the same ones that negotiated for everything for the workers that they are now going to lose along with putting a good company out of business because the bleed the company dry. And I thought one of the large problems was people not buying the product. But maybe that is wrong also. People are still buying more GM’s than Toyota’s right? Toyota didn’t pass GM up as the number one auto company in the US did it? Well at least Toyota’s are made here in America with American parts. Maybe GM will look at that when they are doing their restructuring. I firmly do not believe that an employee should get paid a large amount because they are protected by a union and the union’s threat of a strike. Union’s are in place to prevent businesses from taking advantage of the employees not to help employees take advantage of businesses. And now the employees are suffering from years of them being greedy they want to have their cake and eat it too and it is unfortunate that they can no longer do that in the current economy. Do you think that the American auto companies started outsourcing to avoid the high requirements that the UAW has imposed on them?

There will be no good paying middle class jobs without a strong labor movement. Our President intends to support our unions and introduce legislation that will attempt to restore good paying jobs. The problem is not with the UAW. The problem is that investment banks and Wall Street figured out a way to bankrupt our country by robbing our investments and 401k's. People like the unemployed GM workers worked hard for their living and deserve to be paid well for a hard days work. The average American should be able to support him or her self through their hard work. Something is wrong when it becomes impossible for the average person to survive on poverty scale pay. In these difficult times it would be better to unite in a good cause that will elevate us all than to wallow in the muck.

Volt gets about 40 miles before the gas engine kicks in , the EV-1 got about 80 if you didn`t run any accessories, then it was done until re-charged. Volt is looking to have EPA estimate of 100 miles per gallon

Does GM pay for it's newly unemployed workers to attend college?

I love my 94 Astro van. It has 210,000+ miles, starts every morning when it's below -20 degrees, and has enough room for my boyfriend, kids, dogs, canoe, and camping gear. I bought it from the original owner for $500 last winter (thank you, Cory).It gets about 20 mpg in town. I hope GM can come up with a more fuel efficient car (better than 30 mpg) for ther other plants to produce and hope it will be successful enough to re-open the JVL plant. The Volt is not as efficient as the electric car they produced in the 1990's,and I would like to see them remake that older electric car.

mespl, "more productive with less people." GM sold second largest number of vehicles with either the number three size , or five depending on where you look, workforce. Labor costs of 6% last year, not the main problem.

mespl: you are wrong. The workers assembling transplant vehicles in the country are making VERY similar wages. The only difference is they don't have HUGE retiree costs hanging over their heads. Give them 10-15 years and they will be in the same boat. The markets aren't really saying anything. Granted, Toyota did surpass GM in sales for the first time this last quarter. However, if you do your research, you will notice that the transplants make nearly the same amount (without unions, mind you), are suffering from slumping sales and are worried about the collapse of the American auto industry. I am sorry about the Dodge, by the way.

I've said it before and I will say it again... We have had Mitsubishis, a Jaguar, an Infiniti, Ford, Jeep, Pontiac...NONE of them compare in quality, dependability and comfort to our LOCALLY made GMC Yukon Denali. NONE!

redtop49- much merit to that post of yours. I worked at the plant for many years. I knew many of the UAW reps. Many openly admitted they were in their positions because it kept them off the line and there were more perks. They weren't there for the good of the people. There were some who tried and meant well and acted according to what they knew and believed. It wasn't always right, however, their heart was in the right place.

Another concession we could gladly make is in the area of UAW appointees who get paid to keep the rabble unaroused. We could save a lot of money by kicking those slackers off the gravy train. For every UAW appointee carrying a clipboard GM has a white collar working hard to double the redundancy. We can afford to concede the UAW Appointees. Put them back on the line and reduce overtime in favor of full employment.

We can also concede the twelve hours of double time the Bargaining Chair gets to sit home on Sunday. Let’s concede that payoff. Instead of the company paying union offs to hide in their cubby holes, let’s put them back to work until they are called out and actively investigating a grievance. We don’t need union offs who are beholden to the boss.

darwin- I'm not obsolving GM from their share of the blame. Just because other companies are going down in smoke doesn't mean a company can't come to a common ground and be the one to confront reality and CHANGE! Whether you want to hear it or not, the union has been mismanaged as well. It's called lack of vision. It starts with the leadership. The UAW and GM is comparable to the Republican and Democratic parties in regards to divided! Both ends preach unity and coming together for the good of everyone, yet, they don't walk the talk. There has to be common ground for the good of everyone, not just the good of the two entities being, GM and the UAW. The members of these organizations are what's important...not the title on the building or what's good for the people running the organizations! As far as your comment regarding truth...our society is screwed up due to the lack of TRUTH! No integrity, no honor which leads to no accountability. Just because you choose to be the anti-Christ doesn't mean the principles aren't worthy of following. Without them, we have no laws or ways of insuring accountability. Too many people like yourself are so willing to "cut off your noses to spite your face" that you're blinded from your history, therefore, you can't learn from it.

Please don't take raises away from the teachers!

Techmaster, Im not sure what in your mind makes you think that all cops do is sit in there cars. You are SORELY mistaken in fact I saw one driving his car (granted it was from one side of the lot to the other, but he was driving none the less).

Sluggo, all im saying is that with no job back, no money, no money, no taxes, no taxes, no pay raise for teachers. Its gonna be hard times for all. I think its time we start cutting wages of not just teachers but of police as well. Everyone always says that teachers have all that time off bla bla well think about police and fire. Police just sit in their cars all day and get out to tell people to shush their dogs. With no tax maybe its time to cut down on the over head. Maybe take the cop cars away and make them walk. It will save on gas and non of the cops will be so over weight. Mopeds! Thats it!

Gazette...Please stop printing things about GM. It is getting seriously tiring to see this in the paper ALL the time. The people who NEED to know about these things, will know, the employees. This just gives reason to the haters to start a whole new cycle of cynicism. It is very depressing to begin with, but to keep seeing the same hardships printed is just plain mean.

Ihavealife: You are right it is despicable of me to use my purchasing power for what I think is right, how dare I in a free market like ours. How dare I believe that the market will change directions when the general population feels that the American auto workers are overpaid, but wait the market has already made that shift more people are buying foreign cars and trucks. But your right I am the problem not the fact that the employees are overpaid and it is splattered all over the news, when the rest of us are suffering through pay cuts and unemployment do you honestly believe that we want to buy a vehicle from an American auto company so that their workers can make 63k each year. But hay just keep accusing me of being the problem and ignore the shift in the market and stick your head back in the sand that has worked for GM for the past decade. By the way I drive a Dodge and a Chevy, I have also owned in the past Fords, Hyundai, and Mitsubishi.

darwin1: You brought up the Germany price comparison yourself; I did not initiate that conversation. Now you want to bring up more countries can we keep this in our country? Now you are bringing up China, they don’t even make cars that are imported here, last time I checked this article was about UAW UNITED AUTO WORKERS and about GM GENERAL MOTORS. What does this have to do with China? I entertained your last idea because you were at least talking about Germany and they do make cars and import them here buy you have gone off the deep end now. You are talking about differences in societies, we have our society not theirs as I have stated. Get over it, concentrate on what we have. Don’t accuse me of being selective when you selected the price comparison to begin with! By the way I am voting for America. I do believe that American auto workers are overpaid, I believe that that needs to change, I have also come to the conclusion that either through my taxes or my choice of cars I will have to pay those salaries for the workers until their pay can be corrected. Stop looking over the ocean and talking about how great they have it over there, let’s talk about here and our culture. And here and our culture people are not going to buy a product if they feel that they are over paying for the product or if they feel the company is over paying its employees. That is the great thing about a free market the customer gets to choose. And the customers in America are choosing to not buy from American auto workers as a large majority that is why Toyota has taken the lead from GM. You are not going to be able to change the free market, no matter how much you tell me I am to blame. So you must learn to compete in a free market, if you don’t want to cut salaries then be more productive with less people. And yes I know that Toyota is suffering also however their plants shut down for eleven days ours shut down for six weeks or more, I think they are still doing better.

matthew516, what are you talking about. The Union does not run GM. Rick Wagoner does. Blaming the Union for the companies mismanagement only demonstrates that you are more concerned with your "society is screwed" up rant then the truth. Every automaker except for Honda has seen double-digit drops in sales. This has to do with the credit crisis and little else. Print some money, feed it to them, and when this is over they will be profitable again, the government will get its money back with interest. So, stop your whining about taxpayer money because it isn't yet.

opps their I go not checking for errors again

DING DONG THE JOKERS DONE YAAAA! CAn someone explain to to tech master how to stay focused on the article at hand? I think he read one rticle and accedently clicked on another

That's a silly question......they'll just raise our taxes:)

How are we gonna pay for the teachers to get a raise!??!!?

Joker needs to just stop with the insults. There is no point to it. I'm sure the Gazette has a discussion area for the purpose of constructive discussion, not belittling insults. If I were on the Gazette staff, your account would be banned. Go ahead. Pick apart my spelling, guess what school I attended, claim I lack compassion, and tell me what part of Janesville I live in. I am pretty sure you'll be wrong on all accounts.

snazzy-
The UAW leadership (which happens to be made up of the UNION WORKERS) didn't have enough vision to make concessions including pay cuts and insurance. They sacrificed "later" for "right now"! This is the attitude of our society in general. This includes me. (The old me!) Nobody practices delayed gratification anymore because our society with it's influx of corporate driven media has brainwashed our generations into thinking they deserve everything NOW. Buy everything with a credit card or 12 months same as cash..... either way, it's an entitlement attitude. The fate of the auto industry is no different. People have traded their futures for now and it's hurting everyone. All these fingerpointers who have an excuse and victim attitude toward their situation need not look any further than their mirror. I'm not saying this for people to take personally, but, it's just the truth. Face it and move on. Learn from the past and move forward. I will pray for you all.

Nice homophobic slurs and spousal abuse jokes. Real classy you two. Well I am neither. I am ashamed to call myself a resident of Janesville after seeing such ignorant statements.

I think anonomouse hit the nail on the head. It is wasted time to talk about GM. They are finished here in Janesville. I am done with this. Until next time-

All of you have too much time on your hands if you are still arguing about GM

JOker: To say "again" would imply that you made someone look a fool atleast once. Go ahead. Give it a whirl. I'm a big girl. I hear wife beaters are alson on sale at the Janesville Mall: maybe even at the store you claimed was going out of business.

The only one here who is not contributing ANYTHING to this thread is you, honey.

"Don't hate me cuz you ain't me."

ZZZZZZ...Oh did you say something Mickie?Yawn!!.....Time to go to bed. Markets open up soon and need to be fresh again so I can make some more money and contribute to the local economy.

lol...Joker was telling me to "get a life", along with the lame, yet very intelligent grown up comment- "to buy one at the mall".. He must be busy "pumping".... You know pumping all that money he makes into the economy..lol..lol

Another one of those people (Joker) who didn`t get hugged enough as a child, or adult..lol..
PS- sweetie, it`s poster girl..lol

So sad to see people bashing the GM workers in our community... Yes, I too apllied there at one time. No I did not make it in, however I had a great job for 13 years that paid pretty good. I also had very excellent health care with a cost of only around 80.00 for family. Yes, 80.00.. It`s simple. Some people are fortunate enough to work for companies with great pay/benefits. Some are not.. I just know that pretty much any one of you out there snickering about GM employee`s would not be-if it were you. There is nothing funny about being laid off/losing a job and then to add insult to injury-benefits that you as an employee paid for. Some for many, many years. Good luck to those of you affected directly by this!

Every gain made by union workers is a potential plus for all workers. Every loss handed to a union worker is a potential loss for the rest of us. Good luck to all of us who have lost our jobs (and, no, I did not work at GM). I sympathize with those folks, however, and wish them nothing but happiness.

I tried to get into GM many times. Maybe it's karma. I am still working but for much less than they got. But who knows for how long.

Live on the $340 a week like everyone else who loses there Job !!!!!

Some one made a comment (aren't unions a great thing?)

I worked for GM for 40 plus years. As a union member I saw a lot of changes the way GM dealt with Union Members.

One contract that I remember, the union gain personal holidays for it's union members. When the next contract came up we lost those personal holidays. Why? It was costing GM money.

Another time we had to take a pay cut.

The items we gain/lost was not hand down on a silver platter, the union fought these things.

I just wish the AMERICAN PEOPLE buy the products made here in the United States. But they do not, they buy cars and trucks that made in Japan, China, etc. I'm bet those that made a comment in this forum drive a foreign vehicle.

I`m still trying to figure out how labor costs at 6% of income for GM is the reason that they are having so much trouble. Can anybody enlighten me?

Joker- Please stop trying to categorize etc.. I find you actually comical, its even funnier that you take yourself serious. Its very easy to hide behind your name- JOKER, even easier to make up whatever you like about yourself to feel so important..For being so hard working, successful etc..yadda, yadda- you sure seem to find time to post remarks all day. As far as for apologizing- LOL...See your like that Tes fella on here, you try so very hard to make people angry, yet in the end feel stupid and therefore try and cover that up with insults. Grammar? Spelling? OMG- who cares, either we hit spell check like maybe you do, or we don`t.. I don`t, because it is not the point of true conversation here..You seem to upset quite a few people.. Hopefully people can just start to ignore you instead of feeding your hunger for attention.. I however, don`t really care either way. I am quite use to passive aggressives such as yourself.. Smoke n Mirrors. Means nothing.

momof5--It is 100% acceptable to have an overpaid factory worker assembling the vehicle that you are going to be doing 65mph in as long as the company building that auto is footing the bill for the factory workers efforts. The second you ask the taxpayers to cover the expense of an overpaid workforce, especially when they are suffering the effects of this economy, is when you are going to have issues.....

mespl Your being selective with your price comparisons. First off things are really cheap in China if that is the basis for your society you could move there. According to the last election it seems Americans would prefer the German example to China's. Let's have a vote on it? Second, not everything is cheaper here than in the Eurozone. Germans don't have to live or purchase from Germany alone. Second your leaving out secondary costs. For example, here we subsidize the disposal of products after they are purchased whereas that cost is placed on the product before it is purchased in Germany which is actually smarter because it requires businesses to be smarter and more efficient in the design of their products which explains why they export so much. As you should know from all the lead toys and tainted products from China that cheaper is not better. Hey mespl way to prostitute out your country to China.

What goes around comes around, doesn't it Aaron?

Oh boy. Here we go again with the "I am so successful and you are all jealous of me" rants from TheJoker. Hiding behind a username I am 6'3, tall, dark and handsome. Oh ya and rich.

Progressive6: Where exactly are we disagreeing? I stated that everything over there costs more; you stated that everything over there costs more. I never disputed that they were heavily unionized or largely exporting or had good health care or benefits. My statement was that it costs more to live over there and that helps with the benefits, their exporting also helps of course how could it hurt they are selling more product. On a side not I agree that wages have not kept up with inflation that is a good point you make, however I argue that auto workers are above the inflation point that the rest of us can’t even keep up with. Also on a side note if you can find a $.99 Value meal than let me know where it is cause you can barely get a cheese burger for that (I am pretty sure that that is what you meant, cause you can’t get a whole meal for $.99 to my knowledge).

Joker: I am so sincerely apologetic about my typo. I was typing that post on the 3 inch screen of my BlackBerry. I'm sure you know what that is, no? Most elitists have them. JOKE! I will battle wits with you any day, any time. I'm sure you think you can beat me because I am a woman. Right?!

Whether sub/sup pay is right or not really is not up for debate here. It is a benefit that GM offers to their employees. Just like some offer dental and others do not. When we get away from this "rest of us" and "its not fair" mantra, will this country be able to have hope and achieve change!

Does anyone realize that there is another factory in Janesville who is NOT unionized but yet pays their works $18-$27/hour for an UNSKILLED trade! Sorry, but I'd rather have the vehicle I travel 65 mph+ in with my family made by an overpaid worker than sleep on a MATTRESS made by someone who makes more than a RN and/or teacher. Where's the bellyaching about that? This town is darn focused on GM and why this that and the other thing isn't fair. Newsflash: life isn't fair. Build a bridge and get over it! Our future will thank you.

mespl, darwin1 is correct, Germany is one of the largest exporting countries in the world. It's a heavily unionized country with health care for all. You bet it costs more to live there, but you don't see Germans hopping on the next boat to live in the US because it's cheap to live here. The problem with this country is that wages have not kept up with inflation. It seems that this country would rather keep prices for goods and services and wages stuck in a 1960's time warp while the whole world is in the 21st century. Every time someone says we can't compete, people are quick to throw up there hands and work for less. What has that gotten us over the years? Adjusted for inflation the minimum wage should be $14 an hour. You bet the $.99 value meal will be gone.

Washington writes a blank check to Wall Street and the banks with no strings attached but the blue collar worker industry suffers. It's not just wages and benefits. The money (our taxpayer dollars) is supposed to be put into the system to help, but banks are holding on to the money, and now for those of us who are without jobs can't get loans to refinance debt to relieve some of the monthly expenditures. What's wrong with this picture? Most everyone is playing the blame game here but it all starts with Washington's demands on the auto industry! Right or wrong is just not fair! The UAW was around in the 70's and 80's when the D3 had these same issues and offered the same wages and benefits in perspective as they do now, so that just leaves mismanagement within the corporation.

Thank you jacker. If u didnt red the lin aftr I aknaliged that i had spilling erres. Yoiur right Im jealous of you how could any one not be jealous of a person who's posts sound as if they were written by a third grader. Your the best.

The rest of us that are “class backstabbing” are the ones that the American auto companies are relying on to buy their products, and to bail them out with our taxes. If we feel that the factory worker making that product is overpaid and makes more than someone in professional trades that require education past high school then guess what we will continue to buy foreign made cars and trucks. And the American auto companies will fail.

Boy, with Joker's big head in this discussion i can't believe there is any room for posting. Joker, I wonder how everyone can be jealous of you when nobody knows you??? And it amazes me that you know everything about every subject. Must be such a burden to be all knowing. Back on topic, I believe everyone has a right to their own opinion and can say whatever they want. GM closing is sad but thousands of people are losing their jobs everyday and they don't have 48 weeks of pay coming to them. Those are the people we should feel sorry for.

darwin1: As for Germany they have a different society and let me remind you that everything over there costs more than it does here so society as a whole pays for those benefits for one another. Hey if you want to move to Germany and work there then by all means get lost.

The problem with auto workers is they complain about how they are NOT over paid yet look at the statistics they are paid more than people in professional trades are. They are glorified factory workers, factory workers that make other products don’t make 63000 per year, and auto workers do only because we as Americans have said that it is allowed that they are “special” because they assemble cars. Guess what that is not quite the case anymore, a car is just another item made in a factory, they should earn what a factory worker earns, pay should be proportional to difficulty, when a company can have a robot arm do your job it is not too difficult, sorry.

Bottom line. A lot of safety nets were just pulled away with this announcement. I wonder if things could get worse?

Germany has strong unions, good pay and health care. And they out export China. So, don't tell me how workers are overpaid. That's just class backstabbing. The problem in this country is that "work" is punished while financial gimmicks are rewarded. Look at Madoff, he made off with billions and is still living in his Manhattan apartment. Maybe as his punishment he should have to let some laid off workers live with him.

Working on a manufacturing line is mentally more difficult than being anurse or educator. I have done both kinds of jobs and I literally could not handle doing the same thing over and over and over again. Also, when you work helping people most people shake your hand and say thank you and appreciate you in a truly meaningful way. No boss I have had has ever done that.

ihavealife, $63k a year for line work?
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Ok, I kinda get that the work is hard, manual labor. But a Registered Nurse busts a$$ in school; gets out and busts a$$ at a hospital; works long, varying shifts; deals with nut jobs continually; and makes, on average, $60k a year. What's wrong with that picture? Want an even more outta whack picture? Substitute RN with educator.
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I don't place blame on any of the line workers. They found a decent job with great pay and great benefits. Problem is, they collectively priced themselves right out of a job. How do you not see THAT coming?
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Well, anyway, old news. I just pray there's enough unemployment $$ left in the coffers for everyone. =(

You can always tell when someone doesn't have a good rebuttal. They pull out the grammar and spelling cards.

truthbtold: My husband works at Alcoa and he started looking immediately after the announcement was made that they are closing. The thing that amazes me is the comments I have heard from more than one employee of how they aren't worried, they are going to sit on their butt all summer and enjoy it while they draw unemployment! I was amazed that they think like that. The economy is bad and jobs are being lost everywhere you look and they act as if they can draw unemployment and have no worries. What are they going to do when it runs out and they can't find a job? Especially those who have no plans of looking until they have enjoyed their summer???

I have seen comments here about how the auto workers have paid into the jobs bank through their dues and how horrible it is that that is being lost. Let’s all remember that the rest of the world has paid into their 401K programs and they have all gotten the shaft in this mess as well (at least retired UAW people have their pensions still). I am not saying it doesn’t suck because it does but these are hard times and these employees need to look toward their futures and find a way to make it work without relying on assistance from a failing company. That last comment is not GM bashing that is to all workers who are unsure about their job security; I am stockpiling my savings just in case the same as many others.

Winer, face it, you are just jealous too. Go on the attack mode like all of the other haters. I guess you have nothing to add to the discussion but garbage.

So did the UAW open the contract? Is there a vote for people who work for General Motors?

Dear GazetteExtra reader:
Please excuse the Jokemeister from reality today. It seems he's been eating paint chips again. Just ignore him before he looks even more foolish.
Best Regards, The Jokesters Mommy (or wife, take your pick, probably one in the same)

No question this was going to be bad news for Janesville. The GM workers that don't get new jobs (making less, probably) will now be receiving less in unemployment, so local retail and services they use will be hurt sooner. Good luck to all affected.

Joker.... as long as you're accepting apologies how about expanding that acceptance to applications? Lol got one handy?

Momo, please check your spelling as well. Do you really want to start to battle wits with me? I have been an employee and employer and consider myself one of the working people. Unlike some of the elitists in this town(can we say certain attorneys and business execs?) I care for my fellow man. Yes, I have been very successful and still am successful. Please do not be jealous.

Speaking of successful, I will also accept your apology for calling me a liar regarding my sources. I have been dead on with my information. Admit it before you look even more foolish.

Mickie, your earlier post to me had spelling and grammatical errors. And it made no sense. Finally you are the one who called me names. I will add you to the list of jealous people and accept your apology.

Once G.M. and Chrysler started receiving government funds to keep afloat, EVERYBODY connected with this disaster better be willing to take some hits!! That goes for all those overpaid criminal banking institutions also. Don't come looking for handouts and expect everything to be business as usual. I will still continue to buy only G.M. vehicles(made in the u.s.) and hope for the best.

CNN this a.m. had news that AIG was doling out "retention bonuses" to the tune of 750 Million. They received how much in bail out money? Not only did these people not do their jobs, they contributed greatly to the economic disaster the nation is facing and now they are getting bonuses to stay? Where is the public outrage? Where is the story? Not in the gazettextra.

Sluggo, learn to spell. Are you a product of the Janesville School system? I love how you operate. You are just jealous so you call me names. Sounds like you have "slugged" too many times.

ihavealife ... Those are the #'s for a trades person, not a line worker, correct?

The chart is formatted poorly. The short week gross pay is at the very bottom, as is not used to calculate the benefit. You'll see at the top, gross pay is calculated as rate x 40 (hours).

I'm guessing your miscalculation is due to overtime. The SUB benefit is calculated on a 40 hour work week. If your husband was working overtime, then of course the benefit (plus unemployment compensation) would be less than 80% of take home pay that included overtime.

Wow, Big news.....come on, everyone has heard this long ago. But hey! What a boon for the Haters! I'll bet You Joker is dancing in the streets! But hey? Wheres the others? I'm sure they will show up in full force soon enough. Maybe Joker can look into His work place's tuition assistance program, and take a grammar class. The one thing that alot of people are begining to understand is the trickle down effect of this economy, I'm not pinpointing G.M. Janesville, but the overall economy. Its now hitting people that never thought they would be effected. My wife said She heard today that the U.S. Postal service might cut back to five day a week only delivery. Who would have thought?

Here is an actual example from GM. The 'total net benefit' at the bottom in blue is the SUB benefit. Add in unemployment compensation (after taxes, of course...approximately $310), and you get from 79% to 85% of take home pay, in those examples.
http://www.layoffbenefits.com/gm/faq/sub...

TheJoker: Please don't place yourself in the same category as "us normal workers." Besides, aren't you some business guru who is educated and has done well for yourself? You and your spot on sources. The only education I suspect you got was at Deonne Warwick psychi friends network: and you obviously failed. Joke!

I'm personally outraged at the hypocrisy in DC. Look into the Wall Street bail out. CEOs redecorating their offices to the tune of 250k. Let's stick it to the families but let the fat cats get fatter and fatter.

ynot, YES unions are GREAT. Without them, you don't know what the next day will bring. You could go home earning a set dollar amount and the next day oh sorry, we are cutting your pay (ask my mother about that). Oh well, to bad you were over paid anyway. With out a union, you are sick or you have a sick child and can't come to work one day, to bad, so sad, but you are fired! There can be alot wrong with unions, but I would MUCH rather work with a union, than without one.

Shocked to see yet another GM story and hear about what they are losing that they paid dues for. Where's the article about the great guys at Local 95 that weren't even going to show up for negiotiaions with Alcoa for the UAW members there that are about to lose their jobs and have also paid their dues but don't seem to get anything for that. Heck they can't even get grievences resolved after YEARS of filing the same ones and haing them sit. Equal representation for ALL UAW members...yeah right if you aren't GM you don't count at Local 95.

The "about" 72% of salary mentioned in the article is take home. In other words, after subtracting taxes from both the SUB benefit and unemployment benefit, GM employees will get "about" 72% of their take home pay...for 48 weeks.

ihavealife...both statements are correct. When the statement is made that they make 90% of their pay, that's in reference to 90% of their take-home pay. The recent statements that unemployment and sub-pay is equal to 72% of their pay, that's gross pay. 90% of net or 72% of gross....pretty close to the same thing.

Aren't unions a great thing????

oppps had some words spelled wrong but Im sure you get the point

marymac don't you mean Jimmy Hoffa

Mickie, huh???? Your last sentence makes no sense. Maybe you are taking one of those new foreign language classes and are practicing your skills with me?!

The Joker- First of all, I am NOT a GM employee- never have been. And yes I have lost my job which was not due to GM..Secondly, yes you do have some valid points, yet in the end have to polk a stick..Like a child.

Mickie, I am not being childish. I simply have no real emotion for the displaced workers regarding having their benefits cut beyond what most normal working people have in Wisconsin. Yes, I am sad they lost their jobs but am not sad the job bank is ending.

And don't give me this, "we paid our dues, we are owed it" garbage. Countless other people who are out of work in this city paid their "dues", whether to their union or just by giving their blood, sweat and tears to their job and employer. Contrary to your opinon, GM workers are not different than any other worker. I suggest you lose this "entitlement mentality."

If you think you are getting screwed, take it up with your union or better yet, with Mike Sheridan!

Thanks factcheck for the history lesson really do appreciate it. If we all paid more attention to history maybe we would not repeat our mistakes and thinking they are new,

we are so deep into this "recession" that it almost boggles the mind to understand its implications. whoever has parents alive who went through the GREAT DEPRESSION back in the 20's and 30's should ask them about it. that depression caused our fathers and mothers to pinch pennies and save. that is where all the money came from when these folks died and left their nest egg to their children. history repeating itself, again.

FIND JIMMY HUFFA

Well I hope the union dont take the sub benefits as the workers paid into that and should be entitled to some of what they paid to be returned as the union is all they have right now. where is the union workers right now and where is the right to vote on this?.............. so much for solidarity IMO

If you ask most GMers they have been expecting this..

No news here,I'm just surpised at how many haven't decided what they are going to do by now? My husband has been in the nursing program since he first found out. We then scrambled to get a plan and make a new life. We never would have even considered to sit and wait.."MAKE THINGS HAPPEN..DON"T WAIT FOR THINGS TO HAPPEN".

I always thought it was an idiotic idea, but people have it in their heads that the UAW "forced" this on the companies, and that is untrue. SUB is a different story, that is funded from employees deferred wages, when the fund gets lower the benefits lessen, or are gone.

There shouldn't be any issues then--if the union never asked for it, and it was a benefit provided by GM, the union shouldn't have any problem with GM discontinuing it......especially considering the primary reason for its existence(maintaining a skilled group of employees) is no longer valid...

Before we get too far into this let`s understand, the union never asked for the jobs bank program. It was offered by GM in1984 for the reason stated by schulist. It was modeled after the Japanese program, which they continue. In Japan you have a job for life, and when laid off the government mandates at least 60% pay. The companies there traditionally pay 100%.

My understanding was the job bank was created to keep experienced workers during times of unemployment. Now with plants closing, and new hires earning less, would it not be normal to stop this program? I know this is off article but in reference to the paying dues for this, I'm sure the secondary market workers who paid dues to the same union, did not get a jobs program. Not trying to bash just looking at facts

01/28/09 From the Desk of Unit #1 GM Shop Chairperson John Dohner, Jr.
The Shop Committee has been informed that the Isuzu line will be ending production officially on April 23rd of 2009. This is approximately a month earlier than previously announced.

I am currently in Detroit as the Top Negotiator for Sub Council 2. The parties are currently clarifying and understanding the Term Agreements that were established by the government. There is no information available at this time.

With Chrysler announcing last week that they were going to do away with the 85% clause in the Jobs Bank language, it is expected that Ford and GM will follow suit.

It appears that sales are still down as more down weeks were announced at many plants in addition to layoffs. This will affect anyone that has thoughts of transferring anywhere because they must have their own workforce recalled before there can be anyone transferred in.

There has been very little SAP talk, but what we have heard is that if it comes to be it will be nowhere near the package that was previously offered.

From the UAW Local 95 Website.

No Jobs Bank, No Transfers, No Buyouts. Pretty much SOL.. Good Luck people!

Mickie - I NEVER, I repeat NEVER have agreed with Joker. But I think he is correct in his comments. I feel sorry for the GM'ers who started schooling thinking they had the job's banks to save them while they completed a course for a new line of work. But these are tough times and things like this have to be done.

Maybe the "GM bashing wagon" is just the teachers bashing back??

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This is a loss for the GM employees, but a necessary one if the company is to have any chance of survival. A bankrupt GM can't pay benefits at all. I think those in the 30+ year crowd had better take that pension while it is still available....

Does anyone know what happened to the proposal that Wisconsin presented to GM to keep Janesville assembly open? Last I heard it was never decided on and left open.

TheJoker- your comment is pretty childish. I understand you are allowed your opinion, however these were benefits that GM employees had paid a dues for -for years and years. These are harsh enough times for people, I am quite sure they don`t need to hear those kind of comments. It is so sad to see the "GM bashing Wagon" at work every other day..
Good luck to all of you that are affected by this, hope you can pull through like the rest of us are trying to do.

I think this is reasonable and fair. The affected workers still have almost and entire year at full pay to find employment. It sounds like the "jobs bank" was created to retain workers through periods of transition so that new workers would not need to be hired on and trained. It's apparent that the scaling back of the GM workforce is much more long term than short term and that the workers will probably never be needed again. The program has outlived it's usefulness in terms of making the companies efficient and successful, so they should get rid of it......

Too bad, so sad. Now former GM workers will have to face what us normal workers deal with regarding unemployment.

i bet you are right they will not "loose", but they might lose.

I bet the union officials didn't loose any benefits or pay. I bet the workers are still paying the same union dues even though they lost a benefit. The union will give away anything but their dues.

SUB is next to go, soon after a 15% wage reduction. All to force the over 30 year crowd who will not retire, into the pension program.