To spank or not to spank
PARENTING HELP
Classes: The Exchange Family Resource Center offers free parenting classes at sites throughout Rock County. For information, call (608) 314-9006.
Read more: Local libraries offer a variety of books and recordings on parenting methods such as Love and Logic or 1-2-3 Magic.
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Nancy A. Brooks
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Danny E. Davis
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Chelsea M. Calvert
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David Riley
Discipline your children. But don’t hurt them.
That’s basically what Wisconsin law says about spanking.
So should a parent spank? Opinions vary.
Some, like the folks who teach parenting classes at the Exchange Family Resource Center in Janesville, say spanking harms the child.
“Don’t tell them you love them and then hurt them. They will spend the rest of their lives working through that,” instructor Chelsea Calvert told a parenting class at the center recently.
“They could grow up feeling that they’re worthless,” one of Calvert’s students agreed.
While Calvert believes spanking is harmful violence, she wants parents to make up their own minds.
“Remember, I’m not forcing you do anything,” she told the class. “You make up your own mind with your family. I’m just giving you information.”
Wisconsin law allows parents to spank, within reason.
What does “within reason” mean?
“I know that what’s reasonable to one person may be unreasonable to another, and we understand that,” said Capt. Dan Davis of the Janesville police.
Davis would like to have a nickel for every time parents have told him they can’t discipline their children because they could be prosecuted for child abuse. They believe their hands are tied.
Not true, Davis said.
Hitting someone under most circumstances is a crime, of course. But Wisconsin law provides an exemption called parental privilege.
“There’s a middle ground here. There’s a balance,” Davis said. “You don’t just get to pound the snot out of ’em and then claim parental privilege. But clearly, the state feels that, ‘spare the rod and spoil the child.’”
But some parents go too far.
The decision to charge a crime is up to the district attorney. But officers investigating child abuse complaints must make the first judgment.
“If as parent you feel you have to use an object (such as a belt or a spoon), that’s a red flag to me,” Davis said. “I’m not saying it’s absolutely unacceptable. I’m just saying it’s a red flag.
“Obviously, if we’re causing an injury that needs medical attention, then that’s too far,” Davis continued. “If we’re leaving the kind of marks that are visible the following day or days after, that could be a problem.”
Kerstin Hughes, an assessment supervisor at Rock County Child Protective Services, deals with these questions daily.
Child Protective Services is the agency that sorts out most complaints about child abuse. Sometimes, CPS refers a case to police or the courts. But often, they work with a family if they believe a child might be at risk.
CPS does not tell parents spanking is wrong.
“We have to set aside our own personal opinions about that,” Hughes said. “…There are plenty of parents who discipline children and do not cause physical harm. Child Protective Services has no authority in those families’ lives,” she said.
CPS must look first at whether the family should be helped rather than torn apart, Hughes said.
“The ultimate intent is to help families keep their children safe on their own,” she said.
Nurses, teachers, doctors and others are required by law to report possible child abuse when they see evidence, Hughes noted. People such as Hughes investigate those reports. If it appears serious, the case is “screened in” for action.
“Simple spanking alone is not necessarily going to be screened in,” Hughes said. “And in most occasions, it isn’t.”
Screeners consider factors that could increase the risk of maltreatment, such as drug or alcohol abuse, the age and vulnerability of the children, untreated mental health problems, and any history of violence or contacts with police that suggest a person has hard time managing anger, Hughes said.
If it appears the problem was a one-time thing and the parent is remorseful and wants to change, CPS might simply refer the parents to a place such as the Exchange Family Resource Center, where they can learn parenting skills.
Economic stress in the family might put a child at risk, and CPS can refer families to services that can help.
“That’s an issue in this county, definitely, in the last year,” Hughes said. “We’ve seen an increase in reports of families … under some pretty extreme stress.”
If CPS believes the child is not safe, it can petition the court to remove the child from the home.
Red flags for Hughes include marks on the body.
“An injury to the head or face area would always be more concerning because the end result could be so significantly harmful to the child, versus, say, a small bruise to the buttock or limb,” Hughes said.
But it all depends on the situation. Slapping a 2-year-old on the face could cause permanent damage, but the same blow to a teen-ager, while serious, is less so.
Like Davis, Hughes has heard from parents who say they are powerless to discipline their children without running the risk of being arrested for abuse.
“We encourage parents not to just throw up their hands because kids need their parents,” Hughes said. “Children need structure, routine, accountability, predictability.”
Lack of discipline leads to other problems, Hughes said.
“It can lead to kids who are out of control.”
Experts disagree on spanking
Spanking is wrong.
Spare the rod, spoil the child.
Those philosophies exist side-by-side in American society.
Occasional spanking causes no psychological harm and might actually help, says John Rosemond, whose syndicated parenting column runs regularly in the Gazette.
“The research also finds that spankings work best with young children and lose their effect after age 5,” Rosemond wrote in a recent column.
Spanking of any kind is wrong, said Nancy Brooks, director of the Exchange Family Resource Center in Janesville.
“When you spank a child, you’re not teaching them or guiding them,” Brooks said. “They’re not learning anything from that. Actually, what they’re learning is fear. They become afraid of the adults in their lives.”
Experts disagree on spanking, but they do agree that lashing out in anger is not the way to do it.
You could hurt your child if you let your frustration get the better of you, said Chelsea Calvert, parent educator for the Exchange Family Resource Center in Janesville.
Spanking done in anger doesn’t work, said David Riley, a child development specialist with the UW Extension.
Riley writes a well-known newsletter, “Parenting in the First Year.”
“The first thing I tell people is parents need some way to punish their children from time to time,” Riley said.
“Spanking, when it’s done rarely and it’s done by parents who have a warm relationship with their child, can be an effective way of rearing a child,” Riley said.
But children who are spanked the most frequently become those who frequently get into fights, Riley said. They have learned to hit when they’re frustrated.
Research in the 1970s at UW-Madison found that punishment of all kinds works for parents who have a warm relationship with their child but does not to work without that warmth, Riley said.
Frequent spanking drives parents and children apart, Riley said.
“If spanking is your dominant method, then it can spiral into abuse,” Riley said, but it can be one of an array of tools in a parent’s discipline toolbox.
So what’s the alternative to spanking?
Calvert leads her students through a variety of methods, including loss of privileges, such as a bike, a computer, TV or video game.
“Having a bedroom door,” one mom added.
“I told my 13-year-old no MySpace,” a dad said.
Kids can be required to restore or pay back the thing they broke or stole.
There’s also the old standard, the time out, but no longer than one minute for each year of age, Calvert said, and never before age 2.
For older kids, there’s grounding.
An often overlooked tool is disappointment.
“Kids really do love their parents. They look up to their parents,” Calvert said. “So when we tell them how bad that made us feel, that can be very powerful.”
THE LAW ON SPANKING
Wisconsin Statute 939.45(5)(b) allows spanking by a parent, up to a point. This parental privilege to inflict physical pain is in effect: “When the actor’s conduct is reasonable discipline of a child by a person responsible for the child’s welfare. Reasonable discipline may involve only such force as a reasonable person believes is necessary. It is never reasonable discipline to use force which is intended to cause great bodily harm or death or creates an unreasonable risk of great bodily harm or death.”
Jul 30, 2009 at 7:32 a.m.
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what does that have to do with spanking??
Jul 30, 2009 at 4:04 a.m.
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Are you reading the truth, or what Editor Scott Angus wants you to hear ? It seems Mr. Angus has taken up censorship on other articles on the Gazette Extra.....
http://www.gazettextra.com/news/2009/jul...
Jul 26, 2009 at 8:43 p.m.
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CPS in Rock County is screwed UP! One worker in particular has no CLUE in my opinion! Control your children, but do it by having them take a deep breath! You go Andrea!!!! CPS in Rock County is a joke! Anyone involved in a CPS investigation should tell them leave your home and get a lawyer, even if you did nothing wrong! The whole department in my opinion is based on the bottom line! It's all about the money!
Jul 26, 2009 at 8:14 a.m.
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Interesting charts and stats:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/spanki...
and
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1...
http://www.nytimes.com/1997/08/20/us/2-s...
Jul 26, 2009 at 7:55 a.m.
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Spanking is not physical abuse. Give me a break all of you who do not believe in spanking! It's fine to believe that and not to do it but quit telling others they cannot do so. You are associating spanking occasionally to beating a child. They are hardly the same the thing. Those who say they have a bad relationship with their parents because of spanking probably were more toward beating and probably were subjected to emotional abuse as well. I am sure that you blame all of your bad habits your parents had on them and not on changing them for yourself.
How many of todays youth who are lazy, disrespectful, immature, and irresponsible grew up in households where they were spanked once in a while? Probably not many of them, they were probably treated like little adults and given everything they want because parents want to be their friends and equals instead of their parents. Parents need to start doing their jobs of raising their children to become productive citizens who have to work for what they get and respect themselves, their property and others. I think all children are different and they can be taught these lesson through some spanking, one spanking or none.
Jul 25, 2009 at 6:58 a.m.
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Yep Im definitly going to hell becase I spank my kids....
My kids will know that I love them and Im pretty sure we will have a relationship like I have wih my parents.
Jul 24, 2009 at 7:26 p.m.
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We're all God's children, so I'll bet he spanks us.
Jul 24, 2009 at 5:13 p.m.
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Yep im an addict alright. Considering I already said, if you dont want to spank fine, its your choice. Its my choice to spank. I guess I thought most people would say the same but not you guys.....
Jul 24, 2009 at 4:34 p.m.
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facebooker you sound like an addict. "Don't judge me. You don't know me. You don't know anything about me and why I hit my kids."
Poor baby are people picking on you because your violent towards people who are weaker and less intelligent then you? Yes. This idea that it is wrong to judge you for being violent towards a child is utterly absurd. When you hit a child you aren't just judging your executing the punishment as well. Too bad the empathy you have for yourself isn't extended to a others such as children.
Jul 24, 2009 at 4:28 p.m.
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Yes well I see that your definitly thinking like an adult! You wont spank your kids because its sooo wrong. But if your kids do drugs its off yoru hands because they can think for themselves. You wont spank because you love your kids, but if they run away its their fault not yours. Good parenting I see....
Jul 24, 2009 at 2:53 p.m.
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For us being the "bullys" we are not the ones being bullys on here.
Hank I not going to argue with a person who says spanking is wrong, and if you do yoru a bad parent. Then you said if my kids do drugs it not my fault?!
"Unfortunatley, by the time a kid turns 12, they can think for themselves, and make thier own decisions, regardless of parenting style. Our Gov't dumps billions of dollars every year into a war on drugs that is ineffective. Blaming the parents is a buch of BS too. Proper education about the inherint dangers of drugs (except marijuana), and follow up constantly, repeatedly, with the same information will be the only deterrent" "Listen up non-parents, If my kid were to run away for some unknown reason, I will not take responsibility for thier actions, how is that possible. Are you able to controll people if you dont know where they are or what thier doing? This is hypothetical of course. You drop your kids off at school every day, can you controll them there? nope. Stop putting hte blame on individual parents, and start putting it on our society of accaptance. This means all of you posting here, it's your fault too."
Jul 24, 2009 at 1:59 p.m.
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hankhill - Thank you for proving my point. It is not a matter of "hurting someones feelings", it is a matter of respect. Adults who claim to know how to reason with a child should not have any problem reasoning with adults. There are classes that are available for those who wish to sharpen those critical thinking skills.
Jul 24, 2009 at 12:54 p.m.
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i dont mean that EVERYONE who gets spanked has a bad relationship with their parents, but i do know thats one of the main reasons my brothers and i do.
Like i said, spanking is certainly NOT abuse, but i, personally, think there are better ways to go about the situation, rather than hitting your much SMALLER child. Everyones entitled to their own opinion and how each parent decides to discipline their child is their own business.
Jul 24, 2009 at 11:52 a.m.
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Yep thats it alright!
Jul 24, 2009 at 10:15 a.m.
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wow anne your pretty funny....
Jul 24, 2009 at 9:28 a.m.
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FB09 - It's a shame you don't know who said those things. They clearly all deserve a spanking.
Jul 24, 2009 at 7:42 a.m.
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"If you spank your kids, it just means you're WEAK, and you're a BULLY!"
"Janesville is full of dead beat parents that can only seem to remember that they can spank"
" If a parent has to resort to hitting thier kids for doing something wrong, it shows an obvious inability to teach and lack of parental knowledge"
"Those of you think you can split hairs over spanking and beating are delusional."
"The comments here prove hitting did not make any of you a better person. In fact you have grown up to be nonfunctional adults with little education and plenty of hate to go around. who would ever respect that ? not your kid that's for sure !"
"what the hell is wrong with you people"
"If you have to spank your child to get them to do what you want, then you have FAILED as a parent. a good parent can reason with any child or adult for that matter."
"How limited your knowledge of children and parenting skills must be!"
Hmmm Nope we havent been judged at all.
Jul 23, 2009 at 11:54 p.m.
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Coppertop: Keep them separated. Or you could try what a friend of mine did with her two sons that were constantly fighting ... she made them sit holding hands on the front porch for one hour while she sat there along with them and read a book. She says it cured them.
Jul 23, 2009 at 11:02 p.m.
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bbwil, I was just replying to hankhill as he asked a question. I replied and said just a thought. Curious though... what's the solution to getting the sibling to stop beating up on the younger if not setting an example? I know it smells like hypocrisy there but in all seriousness... pep talk doesn't always work with many unruly children.
Jul 23, 2009 at 10:42 p.m.
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Coppertop, don't you think that spanking your child for hitting their sibling is a little hypocritical?
"We're not a loud to hit...now come get your spanking."
Jul 23, 2009 at 10:37 p.m.
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"Please, give us an example of when someone thinks it is acceptable to spank a child."
Not that I condone it but perhaps maybe when one sibling punches another repeatedly, or is hitting, fighting, and beating up a younger sibling?
Just a thought?
Jul 23, 2009 at 9:30 p.m.
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justsome1here - could not have said it any better!!!
Jul 23, 2009 at 8:45 p.m.
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I find it ironic that posters who claim that they use reasoning skills, patience and understanding when dealing with children have not displayed any of those skills when trying to advocate their positions about non-spanking to adults. When the said posters resort to calling people names (weak-willed, lazy, abusers) they are demonstrating a form of verbal abuse intended to demean other people. If one truly believes in what they are advocating there is no need to resort to those tactics.
Jul 23, 2009 at 8:09 p.m.
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Why so you can judge us on how we are being such bad parents in that situation?
Jul 23, 2009 at 6:32 p.m.
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Yeah my ego is the big one here. None of you are judging at all?!
Jul 23, 2009 at 6 p.m.
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facebooker, your ego is so big you can't even admit you are wrong. Instead, you accuse people of being judgmental.
Does using patients and your brains instead ofviolence make you smarter? Absolutely.
Jul 23, 2009 at 5:38 p.m.
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Should I bow down to yoru high and mightness?? Really.....
YES Im sure you are both right since you dont spank dosent that make you smarter too? I mean you are a better parent than I am because I do.
Great that thats what you think of spanker. I think non spankers are just too judgemental to see past their egos.
Jul 23, 2009 at 5 p.m.
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facebooker, its called Stockholm Syndrome. First off, behaviorism is a practice that is outdated and ineffectual. The same reasons that make punishment ineffective are the same reasons that make rewards ineffective.
I have a questions. How do you teach kindness, love and empathy with violence?
Imagine if instead of "Love one another the way I love you." Jesus said, "Love one another or I'll hit you."
Jul 23, 2009 at 4:46 p.m.
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I WAS SPANKED ADN I HAVE A GREAT RELATIONSHIP WITH MY PARENTS. I respect them and love them both very much so no, just because I spank does not automatically mean they will hate me. If I hated them they might. If I love them its a good chance they will love me back.
Jul 23, 2009 at 4:42 p.m.
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You have no idea what the relationship is/will be between me and my child whether I spank or not. How could you ever predict that based on one factor or just based on your own experiences? Maybe you would have had a crappy relationship w/your parents even if they didn't spank you......
Jul 23, 2009 at 4:39 p.m.
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Spanking is NOT abuse, but i am strongly against it. I was spanked as a child and so were my brothers, along with empty threats of getting sent to a foster home, and we don't get along well with our parents, which i believe is because of that.
If you spank your kids, it just means you're WEAK, and you're a BULLY! Your kids will NOT have any respect for you and it wont help the situation at all.
Jul 23, 2009 at 3:21 p.m.
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evansvillehousewife: You bet she SHOULD have had her house baby proofed, but didn't. We told the court on numerous times and they did nothing! My spanking a 4 year old (he was late potty training so still in diapers) to stop him from touching the outer metal casing of the live wires which were hangin loose with out caps on them(the type that comes out of the wall and attaches to the outlet box I believe )saved his life. His mother thought it was funny and let him do many things that were dangerous...again no help from the court. And yes she did have household cleaners and other items left out in the open for him to get into...again she thought it was funny when he played with those things.
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A simple one time swat was all it took for him to stop and listen to me when I said NO. He was a smart kid and learned that I only spanked him to stop him from hurting himself. Many times after that (from age 4 -18) he came and asked me how I could care so much for him when his own mom didn't give a hoot about his life. Made me want to cry. I am glad I gave that spanking and would do it again.
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Oh and yes I would have loved to smack his mom, but that would only have gotten me arrested and wouldn't have changed a thing in her home. As it was it took 3 years of court battles to get him away from her.
Jul 23, 2009 at 2:46 p.m.
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I agree Reilly_202!
Jul 23, 2009 at 2:38 p.m.
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I agree that you need also need positive reinforcement. I think part of being a good parent means figuring out what's best for YOUR child, what works and what doesn't. That probably means a whole arsenol of ways to deal with bad AND good behavior. It's not gonna make me feel good to spank my child, but if I feel the situation calls for it, then so be it.
Jul 23, 2009 at 2:23 p.m.
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Aparently not! You are either a great parent that only does fun things with yrou kids or you are a bad dead beat who only ever spanks yoru kids.
Did any of us say we didnt reward good behavior??? I do, we have chore charts and they get stickers for chores and for being good. At the end of the week they add the stickers up and they get a special treat. They really look forword to it to.but they are kids so no the are not always good. And please spare me all of the they are kids they should not have chores crap.....
Jul 23, 2009 at 2:08 p.m.
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Oh yes, if I ever spank my child it will definitely be b/c I am bigger and just needed to get my frustrations out. Wait, isn't that what pets are for? (sarcasm) Give me a break people! Why does it have to be one extreme to the other all the time? Isn't there any gray anymore?
Jul 23, 2009 at 1:45 p.m.
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Oh yeah thats how it works....Im a bad person and should hav enever had kids because I spank. Give me a break.
Jul 23, 2009 at 1:29 p.m.
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I think hank makes sense. Basically he's saying that size and age doesn't justify people hitting kids.
That's how I see it... the right to spank seems to be one 'right' only small, insecure people seem to hold on to. Do they enjoy it? I think they simply need the right to feel superior over someone, and kids are their last resort. If you take away their right to strike a baby, they feel like you are a bad parent because they have no other means to force their kids to respect them.
Jul 23, 2009 at 1:26 p.m.
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Twerp.... if a child is young enough to wear a diaper the house should be BABYPROOFED.
you asked, so i want a child dead or a child spanked? THOSE AREN'T THE ONLY TWO CHOICES! How about making the child's environment SAFE and NOT hitting the baby!!! I mean, if there is OPEN ELECTRICAL WIRING that could kill the child it should NOT be left like that... do you leave poisons out too and spank the baby?
If the mother is getting visitation, she needs to make her home suitable for the young child.
Jul 23, 2009 at 12:39 p.m.
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You have quite a way of thinking there hank.....
Jul 23, 2009 at 12:13 p.m.
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Ok a spank and beating on someone are very different.
Jul 23, 2009 at 11:51 a.m.
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OK - I have 2 kids and in the last 5 years between the 2 of them I have spanked probably 6 or 7 times. So I dont use it alot, but If it helps get a point across about his or her getting hurt then so be it. Its my choice as a parent just like you all choose not to. So why do you find it ok to call us names and attack our parenting? Yeah people said stuff about you too but who called you a bad parent? Why would anyone who didnt know someone call them out on their parenting? Thats my issue with this bolg. There are people up on their high and mighty chairs saying oh you have hit yrou kid that makes you a bad parent. NO if I let it go and didnt do a damn thing that makes me a bad parent.
Jul 23, 2009 at 11:43 a.m.
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Keep it coming Anne! Really not bothering me.
I know Im a great parent and my kids love me and their father, who is also a great parent. I also Loved and still love my parents who spanked me. My husband was actually abused by his mom and he even still has a good relationship with her. So say what you will but I am not a dead beat, Im not a bad parent and I am sure as heck not an abuser.
Jul 23, 2009 at 11:36 a.m.
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facebooker09 - You're awesome at the non-judgmental thing.
Jul 23, 2009 at 11:29 a.m.
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=)
Jul 23, 2009 at 10:15 a.m.
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Yeah they will...how to be good people. Unlike your kids
Jul 23, 2009 at 9:52 a.m.
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facebooker09 - It's funny how you see the judgment pointed at you as harmful but are so dismissive of judgment of people you don't agree with. Your kids will learn a lot from you.
Jul 23, 2009 at 7:59 a.m.
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I will add AGAIN if you are on here judging us, its not the first and only time you have judged. Id rather my kids grow up and say thanks for doing what you thought was right. opposed to Hey did you see how horriable that person is? Id do it so much better...
Jul 23, 2009 at 7:57 a.m.
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Oh Im so sorry! that a few people said bad things about the WAY you do things. We have been called dead beats, abusers, and bad parrents. Which I can tell you Im not. If my son is doin gsomething that he could get hurt doing and wont listen to no he gets spanked. Hes never got spanked for the same thing twice because he learns from the first. As i said before I have spanked him MAYBE 5 times in the last year. And dont hand me the teach him right from wrong bull. I Did and I am! I do it my way and you do it yoru way. However Im not a deadbeat abuser, bad parent.
Jul 22, 2009 at 11:40 p.m.
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Anne7: Thanks for that posting; I was thinking the same thing as you!
Jul 22, 2009 at 10:27 p.m.
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facebooker09 - "so even though that (sic) none of the "spankers" are judging the "non spankers" for not doing so, you guys can judge us for doing it. Awsome. Id rather spank my kid than teach him to judge others."
Really? Did you read the first 50 comments?
They included:
"Not spanking your children is just another reason why kids these days are so soft and expect everything handed to them. Congrats to all you extremely liberal parents that are softening the nation."
and
"Don't believe the touchy-feely-hands-off hype."
and
"So where are all the bleeding hearts? Maybe they are in hiding,because they all know they have screwed up as parents,and i use that word parent very lightly. "
and
"You're (sic) alternative parenting methods screwed up an entire generation and we are worse off for it."
and
"The LACK of spanking is what is destroying the minds of our children."
Should I continue or would you like to recant your statement about how judgemental BOTH sides can be?
Jul 22, 2009 at 9:35 p.m.
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twerp13: I don't know what an "open live conduit wire" is, but if it's a life-threatening situation for a child then it shouldn't be where he can get to it. Rather than spank the kid, I think you should have belted his mom. (Just my opinion.) In fact, in a lot of instances where parents overreact or do not react to their children, I'd say beat the parents instead of the kid.
Jul 22, 2009 at 9:15 p.m.
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Wow! so even though that none of the "spankers" are judging the "non spankers" for not doing so, you guys can judge us for doing it. Awsome. Id rather spank my kid than teach him to judge others.
Jul 22, 2009 at 7:34 p.m.
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proartist is correct...in that "spanking IS an act of violence"...but what she and her ilk fail to recognize (or acknowledge) is that violence is not inherently bad or devoid of positive result...based on the totality of all relevant circumstances at the time.
Yes...SOMETIMES...the end DOES justify the means.
Jul 22, 2009 at 6:49 p.m.
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Watching this clip of Walker Texas Ranger teaches the true value of words over violence. I watch it from time to time when I think I am going to lose my cool. Thanks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ5w4MkFo...
Jul 22, 2009 at 6:32 p.m.
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So, let me get this straight. Your child is suppose to be able to control themselves yet the pro hitters obviously can't control themselves. Children don't know that a spanking is just a spanking because they are children. If your parent spanked you as an adult so that it put fear into you, would that be acceptable? And yet, you people are justifying it on a child because they are smaller and less intelligent than you. There is a large body of scientific research that clearly shows the ineffectiveness of behavior modification which is what spanking is: punishment. What I find most sad is the fact that your teaching your child that empathy is something you are to devoid yourself of as an adult.
If I see any of you hitting your kids in public, I will be more than happy to discuss the situation with the police and insist it is assault and battery.
Jul 22, 2009 at 5:02 p.m.
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after reading justsaynotomaths other posts from other stories, I have less respenct than I had for her, and I didnt have much to start with.
If its yoru choice not to spank why do you all judge the ones who do? Its a parents choice either way?
Jul 22, 2009 at 4:57 p.m.
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justsaynotomath: If you ever see me spank my child in public, just ask, I'll give you my phone to call the police. As a matter of fact, I'll dial 911 and then give you my phone.
Jul 22, 2009 at 4:27 p.m.
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You would call the police on someone for spanking their child in public? It's not illegal. It's a parental choice. I'm not saying I'm on one side or the other, but people need to stop judging so much. Ever hear of a paradigm (sp?) shift? You don't always know the whole story behind what you see.
Jul 22, 2009 at 4:07 p.m.
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justsaynotomath: actually I believe that if you called the police everytime you see a parent simply disipline their child eventually YOU would be the one in trouble for false reporting. As stated spanking within reason is LEGAL.
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We know of someone who simply sat their child down and heaven forbid said no to them at a resturant and a customer thought it was so horrible and called the police. The cops came talked to the parents and kid, found out the whole story from them and the restraunt workers then said what the F*** to the customer and warned them that simply saying no to a child when they were playing with the pop machine and making them sit down was NOT cause for a 911 call and instead gave a verbal warning to the CUSTOMER for a false report.
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On a side note, Once our nephew was playing with live open conduit wire that his mother had in her home. When we went to pick him up from her visitation we saw this and to prevent him from killing himself I said no and spanked him. It was just loud enough on his diaper to get his attention and he never went near that wire again. Now tell which would you rather have a dead child or one that got a spanking and learned a valuable lesson of what not to touch?
Jul 22, 2009 at 3:30 p.m.
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troublegirl69: "I say spank them if that's what they have coming. "...... NO CHILD has physical violence against their person "coming". EVER! Such a statement reveals far more about the parenting skills of the one hitting than anything about the child's behavior.
Jul 22, 2009 at 2:58 p.m.
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Where did anyone say I teach not to his by spanking?
Jul 22, 2009 at 2:34 p.m.
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Troublegirl- just alike me punching you in the mouth would put you where I think YOU should be, right?
i would never actually physically harm you, not in a lifetime, but do you see how just the THREAT riles you and gets you angry? And, it accomplishes nothing in the way of actual communication.
I agree with Anne- pro-spankers always seem to say they don;t do it often, but they need to do it... also they say they never actually hurt the child... if you ask the child the child usually says YES they were hurt.
Hitting someone else because you're bigger and angrier is wrong. How do you teach your kids not to hit by hitting them?
Jul 22, 2009 at 2:12 p.m.
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I say spank them if that's what they have coming. I love people who aren't afraid to spank their kids in public. Kids these days think they have the upper hand. A good spanking puts them right back in their place!
Jul 22, 2009 at 11:38 a.m.
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Everyone should click on justsaynottomath and read the other posts. Shes anti spanking because it makes bad adults. And we are all deadbeats if we choose to spank once and a while. While she hits in her perfect chair judging us. Oh but wait she also on a post said "us pot heads".
So smoke pot, drive high, (she said its ok) and drive drunk. Just dont spank....
Jul 22, 2009 at 10:47 a.m.
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I really hope that wasnt directed at me justsaynotomath.
How in the world does spanking yrou kids make you a dead beat?? And yes it worked when I was little if I got spanked I didnt do what I was again! Same with my son. I have never had to spank him for the same thing twice. Do I do it everyday - no. Do I find it sometimes usefull, yes.
I feel sorry for yoru kids. Id rather have my kids know that I spanked them, than have them have judgmental paretns.
Jul 22, 2009 at 8:21 a.m.
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darwin1,
If you think hitting someone on the head with a police baton is the same as swatting someone's butt, then you are the one that clearly doesn't know what he is talking about. You might want to work on your reasoning skills.
Jul 22, 2009 at 8:06 a.m.
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I was spanked when I was little and I have a GREAT relationship with both of my parents. I wasnt beat but I was spanked. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE!
Do I spank my kid ever? Yes, Often? No.
Am I a bad parent for doing so? No.
Jul 22, 2009 at 6:35 a.m.
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First, children are not adults and are still developing. Expecting them to act like a small adult is absurd and ignorant considering the number of adult who clearly cannot control themselves. Take Diplomat, he clearly doesn't know what he is talking about, yet still blathers on uncontrollably.
Spanking, however lightly, is still using violence and the threat of violence to control behavior. It does not work. If you think that it does, you are clearly deluding yourself.
If spanking were so effective, then why don't the cowards who preach it practice it on themselves in the appropriately proportioned manner?
Jul 22, 2009 at 6:13 a.m.
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Sarah - correlation is not causation on your prison/spanking stat.......
Jul 22, 2009 at 12:46 a.m.
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some kids need a firmer hand. but they should never be beat... when taking away privileges and time outs dont work some time a little spanking might. but on the other hand my sisters kids just laughed when they got spanked... odd little kids.
Jul 21, 2009 at 11:05 p.m.
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Can those of you stating that children who are NOT spanked grow up to be inmates please explain to me why research shows that just about 100 percent of inmates reported having been spanked as children?
Jul 21, 2009 at 5:46 p.m.
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Non-spanking discipline is not synonymous with no discipline. It is amazing to me that pro-spanking commenters frequently remark how rarely they actually use the technique, and simultaneously condemn those non-spanking “liberals” with wild-as-wolves children. If a child who was spanked 3 times in their life had NOT been spanked, would that child have turned into a juvenile delinquent as a result? Really? Either spankers are spanking far more often than they admit or those few spankings probably weren't *really* entirely necessary.
We don’t spank our son. Many strangers have complimented his good behavior at Woodman’s. Perhaps it was some of you? Would you take it back if you knew he learned his behavior through consistent and well-communicated expectations and follow-through by his parents instead of spanking?
I was never spanked – my parents were very strict and firm with discipline without being physical (and not a soul who knows my father would consider him liberal). I am now a mature, happy, law-abiding citizen with a good job and a great family. So is my husband – and his parents swatted him a few times. While I don’t personally feel it’s necessary, it didn’t scar him for life, but I don’t think it saved him from a life of hooliganism, either.
Jul 21, 2009 at 5:17 p.m.
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There is a time & place for a swat on the butt or a smack on the hand. If you raise your children to respect boundaries, themselves and authority, spanking is rarely needed. When they step out of reasonable boundaries, then it may be.
Too often, it is the parents who are in need of the spanking. Perhaps we might work on allowing children an avenue to pursue that when the parents are out of control. That would balance the field a bit, don't you think?
Jul 21, 2009 at 3:03 p.m.
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To all you parents with little Lucifers: If you are not going to disipline your children, leave them at home. You should feel embarassment by the way your child behaves constantly in public. Sure a kid will act up time to time in public, but take care of it instead of ignoring it so it doesn't happen again.
Jul 21, 2009 at 3:02 p.m.
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darwin1,
Getting beat with a baton and getting a light swat on the butt are two different things. Use some common sense if you are going to debate this issue and pick two similar situations.
Jul 21, 2009 at 2:39 p.m.
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Too many people here are making spanking synonymous with child abuse. IT'S NOT. Yes, some people take it too far, but not everyone. It is wholly unfair to assume every spanked child is abused.
There is a HUGE difference between having a firm hand with your children and beating the snot out of them.
Jul 21, 2009 at 11:26 a.m.
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Many posters are forgetting that the verbal assaults (abuse) that they are throwing at other posters (whether subtle or not) is just as destructive as physical abuse. Whether you agree or disagree about spanking, do it with respect otherwise you have no cause to criticize.
Jul 21, 2009 at 12:29 a.m.
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I simply don't believe that it's ever entirely necessary. Have I spanked my child? Yes, on occasion I have and find that the lesson's learned were valuable and rarely, if ever, repeated.
However, I have met several parents who have absolutely no more behavioral issues with their children than typical who refuse to spank. Their are appropriate and effective ways to discipline children without spanking or threatening to cause physical discomfort to that magnitude.
I've also met families whose parents spank as a rule of thumb (not abusive-like, but more frequently than I ever would) and find that their children use violence as a method of getting what they want. These children abuse other kids in their classrooms, playgrounds, and other public settings. They simply do not understand that one can reach conclusions without touching or harming others. That's sad, and I see it often.
Spanking is best served ill frequently such that a child learns absolutely valuable lessons (ie. things that may hurt him/her or others). Parents who spank their kids for every little thing are only teaching their children that violence supplies answers to all of life's ills.
Jul 20, 2009 at 11:07 p.m.
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I have a friend who had a young, very well-behaved child. So well-behaved, in fact, that she thought she had all the answers when it came to parenting.
She would get upset at other people's children because they played too rough, didn't play with her child, stepped on books/toys in the playroom instead of stepping around them, threw sand in the air, and myriad other things her child would never even consider doing.
She dissed other people's parenting methods because their children weren't well-behaved. We tried to explain to her that the disposition of the child plays a factor in how they behave/listen/respond to correction.
But it wasn't until her second child could walk that she finally "got" it. She now understands that sometimes you get an easy kid, and sometimes you get a strong-willed child. Her first was easy. Her second, not so much. Her third? Easy again.
Sometimes the answers aren't so cut-and-dried. And sometimes lessons come from experience.
Jul 20, 2009 at 10:46 p.m.
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Ljs64 are you so holy and angry on here because you were spanked as a child?? :p
Jul 20, 2009 at 9:11 p.m.
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A quote from mommyopes:
"Hmm, that is where a diaper is at so the child does not feel it nor does it hurt them."
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Honestly, if you think spanking your child on their diapered bum doesn't hurt them or they don't feel it...then what's your purpose in hitting them? To shame them? To get your anger/frustration out? That doesn't seem very effective to me. *shrug*
Jul 20, 2009 at 8:40 p.m.
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Every parent has to have a way to discipline. I used spanking but, as the kids grew, I found I apoligized after every spanking and hugged them. They were young and probably don't remember the spankings but, having two daughters I thought: If they ever have an abusive spouse would an apology and a hug make everything better? Following that reasoning I stopped.
Jul 20, 2009 at 7:42 p.m.
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also hannah, obviously my newborn is not going to act up. If you are going to read my posts, you should read ALL of them in their entirety. I have been to many public places with children of all ages, up to 16, and I don't have issues with bad behaviour. Why is it so hard for you people to understand that it is possible to take your kids outside and have a pleasant experience?? I will continue to put my kids in time outs and i refuse to spank. it would help if more people broke the cycle.
Jul 20, 2009 at 7:39 p.m.
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hannah- i have been to the store millions of times with my son, although you believe 4 is young, I've already gone past the terrible twos where most tantrums occur. My son doesn't wonder the town aimlessly and I certainly don't let him leave my yard by himself. I have taught him at a young age what I expect from him in public and I don't have any problems. It's funny how simple it is, all you have to do is make sure you feed your kid and that they had a nap before you go to the store, and there is no problems. It also helps if you tell him no when he does ask for something and you are consistent with it. I don't bribe him or reward him for being good in the store. I just thank him for being such a good boy and tell him that it makes me happy to be able to shop with him without any problems.
Jul 20, 2009 at 7:25 p.m.
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I've swatted all of my children. Most of the things they've done didn't warrant a swat in my opinion-and other approaches worked. One of the four has smacked me-on the arm.
Like anything in life-this is not a black and white subject. Some say any spanking is wrong, some say timeouts don't work.
Know your child. Know what works for that child. Am I a lazy or bad parent because I've swatted. Ask my kids. See how they treat people. Then tell me again it is absolutely the wrong way.
Jul 20, 2009 at 4:49 p.m.
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darwin1: Lazy? Perhaps you better stick to the "to each their own". I am anything but a lazy parent and my daughter was spanked when she was younger. It did not make me feel good to spank her. BTW - spanking is NOT the same thing as hitting. If you are a parent that has never SPANKED your child and the child is well behaved good for you. Not all children are the same. My daughter does not fear me nor does she receive SPANKINGS anymore. FYI - my definition of a SPANK is A, meaning one, swat on the rear. Hmm, that is where a diaper is at so the child does not feel it nor does it hurt them. Every person has a different opinion and the above is mine!
Jul 20, 2009 at 4:30 p.m.
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Those of you think you can split hairs over spanking and beating are delusional. So, if you really believe in what you preach, then the next time your pulled over you should insist that the officer bash you with his baton a couple times as punishment instead of a ticket. Clearly, tickets don't work. If you don't think that this is a good idea than your nothing more than a hypocritical coward who hits a child because they can. Grow up!
You see many of you like spanking because its easy and makes you feel good to hit someone smaller than you. You see raising a child appropriately takes a lot of time, patience, intelligence and effort. Spanking is about lazy people taking the lazy route.
Diplomat, you don't have children? Obviously, you don't know what your talking about.
Jul 20, 2009 at 4:23 p.m.
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Here is a short article from a very informed and respected child expert, whom everyone has probably heard of:
http://www.beliefnet.com/Love-Family/Par... (Dr. James Dobson)
I never spanked my kids after 6 or 7, but I did before. My kids have never been in trouble with the law or at school. They are respectful and I can't count the number of times I have been told how great my kids are. I would have not done it any other way. I have friends and relatives that refrained from spanking and they have some disrespectful, trouble making kids. I am not saying that everyone will have the same results. That is the only reason for my comment about not changing anyones opinion by a forum like this. Discipline is another one of those things that there is no clear cut across the board answer on what is right. Each child is different.
Jul 20, 2009 at 4:17 p.m.
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Because of so many parents inability to LEAD in their own household, our society is moving dangerously close to the day when the state will be raising our children. Anyone who can't see this happening already needs to get their head out of the TV and video games and wake up to reality. Take the apathetic approach that the majority of this country has chose to have and we can speed up that process. Take a proactive approach and be willing to take a stand and do something, we could change that direction. God bless everyone.
Jul 20, 2009 at 3:41 p.m.
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I would've gotten more if I had slapped the crap out of another chick outside a bar.
Jul 20, 2009 at 3:30 p.m.
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omg!hannah wasnt that an outrage the sentence that animal got for what he did to that poor baby girl.he should have got life in prison.
Jul 20, 2009 at 2:51 p.m.
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there is a big difference between a spanking and a beating and everyone knows it.there is nothing wrong with disciplining your children,but to beat them is another story.you can only spank your children so much,so i stopped wasting my time. my children are all grown now and some days i dont know how i got through it,my kids were the champions of brats,and lazy as the day is long,an spanking didnt work with them.so i started taking things away and boy did that help,everything they left laying around and i didnt care what is was i put it in a trash bag and through it outside.they started picking their stuff up.one thing i will agree with on these posts is that kids today have no respect for anything,and no manners.i believe respect and manners are taught in the home,but no matter how rotten my kids were when they were younger they respected their elders and had respect for them.weve lost control of our children along time ago,when these so called experts told them to call the cops on their parents,i found some of these experts didnt even have children,they were text book parents.lol what a laugh.but some these experts did have some good ideas.you have to make the choice as a parent what kind of discipline fits their actions ,but a beating is not the answer,a spanking i will go with but not with wooden spoons, or belts or any other object.unfortunately sometimes nothing works. good luck to all parents who truly trying to make your children into good adults.and always remember you are not your childs friend, i made that mistake also.
Jul 20, 2009 at 2:50 p.m.
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And to say that kids who aren't spanked are "soft" or "heathens" it total bull. Sure my daughter can behave like a "terrible two" sometimes but I don't use abuse as punishment...and no it doesn't take me 10 minutes and "the verge of tears" to get her in line.
Jul 20, 2009 at 2:47 p.m.
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Hannah - He/she maybe read a book on parenting. I like those kinds - PERFECT because they read a book.
Jul 20, 2009 at 2:46 p.m.
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We can debate the effectiveness (or non-effectiveness) of spanking etc, but the bottom line is that spanking is hitting, hitting is abuse. Take that smack to the butt and apply it to your chids face? That would be considered abuse by any "official."
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Are your kids aloud to hit you? Their friends? Their siblings? I doubt it. WHY are you arguing your "RIGHT" to hit your kids?
Jul 20, 2009 at 2:05 p.m.
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This is why kids grow into adulthood with little or no respect for people of any age, and have their incredible sense of entitlement for everything.
The parents have gone "soft" and let kids rule the roost.
Jul 20, 2009 at 2:02 p.m.
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Oh, God, "the diplomat"! Wow! Apparently, you see the same people I see in the stores!! I've seen "Jeffery" in action myself! (And the lack of action by Jeffery's mother).
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I've had the skin taken off the back of my heels from kids pushing the cart as though it was a bumper car at the fair. Did I get a sorry from either the "child" or the "parent"? Absolutely not! In fact, the "parent" said it "wasn't that big of a deal". (What?) This is where I want to slap a little sense into the parent.
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And this is not an isolated incident. Something happens almost everytime I shop anywhere for anything.
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My parents would've left the cart momentarily, taken me to the car, and put a little fear in me as to what would happen when I got home. However, I was not beaten, just spanked on my bum. I also did not spend my life after that all confused and tortured as to my relationship with my parents!
Jul 20, 2009 at 1:13 p.m.
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watched the nanny show once with the two parents that couldnt control thier child who lived in edgerton."
hannah...........You mean Evansville right?
THEIR....
Geez.....
Jul 20, 2009 at 12:08 p.m.
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Anyone who believes that spanking or not determines what happens to an individual later in life isn't taking into account the infinite number of variables that influence behavior. Some methods are successful for some, other methods for others. There is not one size that fits all. There are a million socio-economic factors alone. Get off of each other already!
Jul 20, 2009 at 11:58 a.m.
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hannah: "but if they dont listen then you may need a swat." . . . . If they aren't listening, perhaps you as the more experienced and rational (?) adult need to change what you're saying and how you're saying it. Hitting, slapping, and other physical violence never does anything more than shut down all instructive and positive communication. "Might" by itself is seldom "right" no matter how many think it can be defended as just.
Jul 20, 2009 at 11:18 a.m.
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Amen maryann!
Jul 20, 2009 at 11:03 a.m.
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I agree 100% with Maryann.
"The key, as others have pointed out, is that whatever your punishment methods, they have to be backed up with love. If you aren't hugging and loving your kids and giving them the stability they crave, your parenting will not be effective. That's the point that most often gets lost in this debate."
Jul 20, 2009 at 10:45 a.m.
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I was spanked as a child rarely. My parents would count to 3 after a warning and if I didn't stop by 3 I got a spanking. I learned very early what behavior was right and wrong.
My sister didn't spank her son but she swatted him on his hand when he was very young (toddler) when he was doing something he wasn't supposed to do and he is one of the most well behaved children I have ever met!
When I have children I will probably spank because I believe that there are situations when it is warranted. I will however try time outs because I have seen them to be effective too.
I think what the majority of people are missing in comments is that spanking is something that is typically done prior to the child entering school because that is when it is most effective. I don't recall being spanked after 5 because I learned by then and didn't cause problems in school either.
Also I was slapped when I was a teenager for mouthing off and it worked! Never again did I speak to my mother the way I did that day and I believe I deserved that slap. I am an adult and not once have I "had to work through issues" from being spanked. I thank my parents for their effective discipline
Jul 20, 2009 at 10:41 a.m.
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ladystardust,
It isn't eavesdropping when they are causing a scene. In addition, it seems to me that your argument and examples are more based on abused children and not children that are spanked. There is a line of course. I was spanked as a child, but was hardly abused.
Jul 20, 2009 at 9:35 a.m.
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Anyone else find it interesting that ladystardust has children who are 4 and younger? Still plenty of time to enjoy a few tantrums.
While I don't think it will make much difference, I'll toss my 2 cents into the mix. I was not spanked as a child, but I spanked my children when the situation warranted it (they're too old now for spanking, so now they get grounded). I didn't start out as a spanker, but as timeouts didn't curb certain behaviors, I was taught by a parent I respected on how to effectively discipline using spankings.
I know many children who are/were spanked (not abused, but spanked) as kids, and every one of them said they deserved the punishment. My children say so, too, laughing about this time or that when they got into trouble.
The key, as others have pointed out, is that whatever your punishment methods, they have to be backed up with love. If you aren't hugging and loving your kids and giving them the stability they crave, your parenting will not be effective. That's the point that most often gets lost in this debate.
Jul 20, 2009 at 8:56 a.m.
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It's not-to spank of not to spank. It's figuring out which punishment works for each child. I can give my 7 year old a swat-she is the most stubborn little girl I've met in my life. It wouldn't mean a thing to her and make her more mad. I can swat my 5 year old and it'll be a shock back to reality. When I say swat-it's one swift smack on the butt. I think to spank is a little more dangerous. Some adults will get so angry they will spank their child and it's like a stress reliever for them. It's easy for some to go overboard with it.
I got spanked as a child. I never liked being spanked obviously but I don't know if I ever thought about the possiblity when I was misbehaving. When I did get spanked I'd at times have no reaction because I knew that was what was expected. I guess my daughter gets her stubborn ways from me in a way.
Jul 20, 2009 at 8:49 a.m.
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As spanking has decreased in popularity, misbehavior has increased based on my experience of 42 years and four children. It is not coincidence.
Jul 20, 2009 at 8:39 a.m.
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unknown: Were you spanked as a child? I am guessing you were because the whippings apparently knocked your ability to spell right out of you.
Wow.........Trying to sound intelligent and then submit a post like that.
Jul 20, 2009 at 8:11 a.m.
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Ladystardust: I don't believe in the belt or slapping in the face. A hand to the backside only. I have two sons 14 and 7. I can count on one hand the number of times that they have been spanked. Literally, 5 times between them. I believe that spanking is an acceptable form of discipline if used in moderation. My children do respect me. Not because they are afraid that I'm going to slap their backside (hasn't happened enough), but because they realize that I will not accept any behavior from them that will produce a less than productive adult in the future. If that makes me a "self righteous hard ass", then so be it. It won't be my kids robbing you.
As for praise...yet again, you're wrong. I was showered with praise growing up and so are my sons. My oldest son's teacher told me at parent teacher conferences when he was in the 3rd grade that I praise him too much. I chose to ignore her.
??? had made the comment that the majority people in jail were spanked. That is probably true. If they are old enough to be in jail, they were most likely raised in a generation that believed whole-heartedly in spanking. Before all of you book-parenters came along. I love it when nonspankers use as references people who were (abused) and not just (spanked) occasionaly as your reference point. If you're going to make comparisons, use appropriate ones. Kids were spanked on occasion vs. those who were not. I think you'll find that the majority of us are all well-adjusted, law abiding, productive citizens.
Jul 20, 2009 at 7:40 a.m.
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I just blame other people and society in general for my children's bad behavior. Let's me off the hook as being a bad parent.
Jul 20, 2009 at 7:35 a.m.
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there is nothing wrong with spanking as long as its done in moderation. I think there is something wrong with people who do not discipline their kids. These are the same kids that cry and throw temper tantrum in the stores and who are weaker whiner people when they grow up. So i say spank away.. A little sting total will save your kid a ton of grief tomorrow
Jul 20, 2009 at 1:26 a.m.
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diplomat-"Of course that may be because of people whose soft discipline results in their children constantly misbehaving in public. Now I don't even begin to think that a child that gets spanked doesn't act up in public, " Actually children who ARE spanked frequently (abused) either act like a trained dog,hunched over and quiet,afraid. or act up a lot more obnoxiously and loudly because they thrive on attention and want to get it even if it's negative. They learn "hey i'll just get a swat on the butt and can go right back to what i was doing! It's worth it! I will try harder not to get caught" Then they learn to lie about it and avoid taking responsibility for their own actions. At least with a time out technique you have the child reflect on what they did and you talk about it, explain why it was naughty and ask for an apology.
Jul 20, 2009 at 1:20 a.m.
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thediplomat-
obviously those parents you are eavesdropping on are not consistent with warnings and do not follow through on a punishment. Not all parents are like this.
But if you prefer to use it as a form of birth control, then more power to ya. Yet it is strange that you would have so many pro spanking comments yet have no children of your own. Maybe that's why it is so easy for you to simply say "that kid needs a good swat on the butt because he's annoying my shopping experience" instead of having some understanding, some empathy, and a little patience. How can you possibly know what it feels like to love some one so much who is a part of you? and then have the audacity to bring him/her physical pain and fear on purpose just because she/he was 'naughty'?
Jul 19, 2009 at 11:36 p.m.
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oh and while other people are disciplining thier own children others should BUT OUT!
Jul 19, 2009 at 11:32 p.m.
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I say more parents need to start spanking thier kids! If they did at least they would let them know they are not running the show like most kids these days!
Jul 19, 2009 at 10:32 p.m.
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ladystardust,
I don't have any kids right now. Not sure if I ever want them. Of course that may be because of people whose soft discipline results in their children constantly misbehaving in public. Now I don't even begin to think that a child that gets spanked doesn't act up in public, but at least I don't have to be annoyed for a longer amount of time as the parent pleads for the kid to be good and the child still does what it wants. I can't tell you how many times I want to smack the parent as I am forced to hear "Jeffrey don't do that, Jeffrey that is bad, Jeffrey, please behave, Jeffery, didn't I tell you that was wrong, Jeffery please be a good boy, Jeffrey stop that. Jeffery quit running into people."
Jul 19, 2009 at 8:33 p.m.
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Marine Corp. period. use your "you shouldn't spank with them". How about Russia?
Jul 19, 2009 at 8:17 p.m.
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rocky- no one is condemning the "spankers", in fact, if you read the comments, almost everyone who does practice "spanking" condemn those who do not, threatening that our children will grow up too soft, too lazy, too spoiled, and that kids who grow up without spankings are ruining our country and our society.
HANKHILL- THANK YOU! Finally someone who has not really had a bad shopping experience with their children leaves a comment! It's really not hard to teach your children how to act in public places and although I have seen children screaming on the floor for their cereal, I do not condemn the parent or make rude remarks. If anything, I am grateful for my child's good behavior.
Jul 19, 2009 at 7:43 p.m.
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I think it is fine that some of you have chosen to never use spanking as a form of discipline. Why condemn others who make a different choice? A swat to the backside is not now, nor has it ever been abuse. So stop condemning those who choose to utilize spanking. Their kids, their decision.
Jul 19, 2009 at 7:06 p.m.
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Again, people continue to rave and ramble! No opinions will be changed in a forum! Go back to your spank or no spank homes and deal with it!
Jul 19, 2009 at 5:23 p.m.
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Oops! In my previous comment, please substitute "justsaynotomath" for "ladystardust".
Jul 19, 2009 at 5:21 p.m.
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Whomever wrote that ladystardust will be visiting her children in jail one day is most likely wrong: Nearly all inmates report they WERE spanked as children.
Jul 19, 2009 at 5 p.m.
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diplomat- i said "Jillian probably doesn't have many other stories of her childhood where she broke rules, considering her dad sounds like the kind of man who made sure she behaved with non violent means. " I am sure she did misbehave on other occasions, she was sharing with us memories of times where her dad got creative and still taught her a lesson. You may think it doesn't count since she was already a teenager, but teenagers do misbehave and that's life. It's what they learn from it that matters. And what she did, is nothing any of you have never done either. Obviously the rule was to go to her room and go to sleep, and she broke it by leaving out of her window (like many teens do) her dad obviously went in there to check on her and noticed she was gone. How many times do you check on your kids during the night? I just think what her dad was smart and clever enough to get her to understand what she did was wrong and she has learned from it.
POINT is, Jillian is obviously a well rounded person and she was never spanked.
You were spanked as a child, and I'm sorry for that. But you could try to be a good parent without hitting.
Jul 19, 2009 at 3:20 p.m.
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ladystardust- You commented
"Kids when spanked learn how to not get caught. They still misbehave. They also are more likely to develop a fake persona to have around the parent and be themselves outside of the home".
New Flash - As do children who have never been spanked.
Jul 19, 2009 at 2:48 p.m.
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ladystardust,
Are you really that nieve? You think that because jillian didn't have a parent that spanked them that she never misbehaved other than those two times. Go to the supermarket once and you can find that argument has no ground. I constantly see children screaming and running down the aisles with parents pleading with them to just behave (which they never do). They really annoy the piss out of me and other shoppers. I have on more than one occasion comment to my wife loud enough for the little devil's parent to hear (and hopefully embarass them) that they may try swatting the kid on the butt to get them to behave because trying to reason with the child is not working.
Jul 19, 2009 at 2:12 p.m.
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Well said, darwin1. As the extremely proud parent of 3 very successful, high achieving, responsible, and community-involved young adults who were NEVER, EVER spanked but who learned hard work, self-discipline, conflict resolution, and moderation in all things by adults in their lives who modeled the behavior they were trying to instill, I must applaud all those parents who realize spanking and other physical violence toward children doesn't teach "liberal softness". Instead it teaches respectful, loving, and consistent discipline when parents are open, honest, and refuse to stoop to the level of pain, intimidation, and humiliation of their children. Violence toward children - or any others - only demonstrates a lack of self-control, initiative, commitment, and fear of undertaking the harder and longer path of creative child rearing and problem solving. When adults EXHIBIT the same behavior they expect to teach their children, there is no need to resort to punitive and violent hypocricy.
Jul 19, 2009 at 2:05 p.m.
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well said darwin1. I completely agree.
Kids when spanked learn how to not get caught. They still misbehave. They also are more likely to develop a fake persona to have around the parent and be themselves outside of the home. I'd rather have my child be honest with me and learn from their mistakes instead of not really knowing my child at all.
Jul 19, 2009 at 1:37 p.m.
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I really enjoy the comments of the people who think that by not spanking we are making children soft. My parents hit me and my siblings. The last time my father hit me, I laughed at him. I don't really speak to my parents often or have a relationship. What kind of man or parent are you that you have to hit a child? What kind of man or parent can't show some discipline and restraint? You expect your child to behave with restraint, while showing none?
The reason why spanking doesn't work is because it is based on a behaviorist model that doesn't work. If it did, prisons and the death penalty would actually prevent crime, but they don't. Why? Because people can learn to tolerate any punishment. Evidently, too many people on this blog were hit in the head.
Jul 19, 2009 at 1:12 p.m.
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Spanking at 13 or 17 means nothing but spanking at an earlier ages does?? Tell me what is it that you think spanking teaches a child? My husband was spanked by his parents and he said the only thing it taught him was not to do something around his parents cuz he'd get his arse beat, it didn't stop him from continuing the behavior elsewhere.
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:58 p.m.
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thediplomat- Jillian probably doesn't have many other stories of her childhood where she broke rules, considering her dad sounds like the kind of man who made sure she behaved with non violent means. I'm not saying all kids are perfect,but I have met adults who grew up in a nonviolent home and they would never dream of spanking their own children.If you teach them young how to act BY example and you are there to guide them and show them that you can talk about your feelings without fear, there is not that many problems with discipline. I know the son of a doctor (who never ate from the public trough "moby6400) who was raised with respect and discipline without violence and now he is a great husband and a great father who instills respect and discipline in his house by talking about the rules, talking to his children calmly when they do break the rules, and by being warm and showing love even if he is upset. It is possible. People need to learn PATIENCE and you need to GIVE chances . You can't expect a child to act like a grown up. Your job as a parent is to ensure your child's safety, welfare, and to raise them with love, confidence, good health, well rounded discipline and respect. How can you respect some one or love someone while your smacking a part of their body ?
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:47 p.m.
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I agree with 'the diplomat' (not to be confused with my post of 'not becoming too domplomatic), liberal parents (at least some of them) are softening the nation.
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:43 p.m.
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Just don't get too diplomatic...These are your children. You need to do what is acceptable and necessary to save your kid(s) from turning into bad people, like several of these other news articles. In my view, good parenting would require almost never having to lay your hands on the kids. However, if it is needed, then do what is reasonable. It's either that or lose the child to a rotten life. By the way, why do all kids have to have constant cell phones, MP3 players's, TV, etc? What happened to old fashioned..."It's 8 o'clock, turn it off and do your homework." Besides, if you need to read a statute to tell you the difference between what's abusive and what's just parenting, then maybe you should get help.
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:17 p.m.
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Jillian,
At 13 and 17 you were too old to be spanked and have it mean anything. When you are old enough to understand grounding, it becomes a more effective tool since the punishment lasts a lot longer than 10 seconds.
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:11 p.m.
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My Dad had a unique way of letting me know the things that would not be tolerated. I was never spanked.
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When I was 13, I had crawled out my bedroom window after the parents went to bed, to go and hang out with my friends. When I came back home to crawl back in, I had found that the window was nailed shut! With no where to go, I had to spend the rest of the night alone on the porch! When 4:30 a.m. rolled around, he came out and only said "did you have a restful night?". Needless to say, I never snuck out of the house again.
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When I was 17, a friend and I had decided to skip school one nice Spring day and road cruise over to Lake Geneva. Well the car ended up breaking down and we ended up stranded. So with our teenage wisdom, we decided to hitch hike back to town. Didn't take long before a Sheriff rolled up on us! Long story short, Dad was called out of work to come and pick me up. He never said a word to me. The next day I walk into school and all of my friends were coming up to me and asking what was wrong with me and if I was on drugs. I told them no and asked why they thought that. Well apparently one of my friends had called for me the night before and my Dad had told them I wasn't allowed to talk because I had been caught hitch hiking to Chicago to become a prostitute!! At 17 when the only thing that matters is your friends and what they think, I can tell you how very embarrassed I was! Needless to say, I never skipped school again!
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He used his wisdom to teach me, not his hands to beat me.
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:06 p.m.
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IMHO,,those that advocate the "don't spank, you will hurt their little feelings", have probably been feeding at the public trough their entire lives,,, and discipline and respect instilled at an early age, endangers that easy livelihood,,,
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:03 p.m.
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Irish_Mafia78- You lost your bet. FYI I let my kids explore and discover and learn for themselves. That's part of being a kid. I think it is hilarious all of a sudden everyone pro spanker thinks that I"M the BAD guy, and that I'm psycho and that I had tramatic upbringing and that I'm a new age flimsy target to pin all of society's problems on. Why don't you focus on your violent tendencies and admit you have them and find alternatives. Instead of bashing other people (showing your not in control of your anger, frustration) and proving that once again children who were abused grow up to be bullies, abusers, and a**holes. I'll say it again, BREAK the CYCLE!
I bet if some person you REALLY admired like a celebrity or a famous rock star or your boss or your favorite football player came to your house just as your child misbehaved (to the point where you usually would spank) that you would NOT spank your child in front of that person you admire, respect, want to like you. So it is possible to control yourself, you just have to give yourself the motivation.
Jul 19, 2009 at noon
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Not spanking your children is just another reason why kids these days are so soft and expect everything handed to them. Congrats to all you extremely liberal parents that are softening the nation.
Jul 19, 2009 at 11:49 a.m.
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in_my_opinion- I can tell you the truth and that is an expert By Dr Marilyn Heins
ParentKidsRight.com wrote about the 11th commandment, along with all the reasons why spanking is wrong. And the ALTERNATIVE techniques available.Obviously she knows what she is talking about, and she is a DR. What are you? You just see an obscure bible reference and freak out calling people liars and getting the belt out. You can read it yourself here http://www.supernanny.com/Advice/-/Your-...
Once again, I will say I have not had a negative shopping experience, and I have 3 small children, ranging from newborn to 4 years old. You might have thought you were so smart saying I must be lying, but it is true. If you take your kids to the store when they are not tired or hungry and you do not spoil them, then there is absolutely no problem. I don't need you to believe me since you already made up your mind, I feel so bad for your family and your kids who have to put up with a self righteous hard ass who feels god put you here to determine what is good or bad, right or wrong, and gave you the almighty power to punish. Jeez, when was the last time you got a hug or some encouraging praise, I can tell you never get any.
Jul 19, 2009 at 9:29 a.m.
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i got spanked a few times as a kid. never hard enough to leave a mark for more than a few minutes or on my face, but enough to be reminded that i did something wrong. and it was after i had been given verbal warning to stop what i was doing.
yeah, it upset me at the time. but it never caused any permanent damage. i'm a law abiding productive citizen with no violent tendencies. i don't believe spanking causes kids to be bad adults. it's when it becomes MORE thank being spanked occassionaly when they do something really naughty OR when they get no discipline at all.
Jul 19, 2009 at 9:24 a.m.
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"Don’t tell them you love them and then hurt them. They will spend the rest of their lives working through that" Chelsea is a fruitcake. You better not tell your kids there is a Santa Claus because they might be spending the rest of their lives trying to figure out why you lied to them........
Jul 19, 2009 at 9:20 a.m.
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Justsaynotomath; I hope you enjoy visiting your children in the joint.
Jul 19, 2009 at 8:29 a.m.
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My husband & I were arrested for false abuse charges by are daughter 9 years ago. It took us 6mths and a good lawyer and the support of some very excellent case workers, who saw through our daughters lies. Our daughter was in 6th grade at the time and told her teachers that we beat her thats why she had bruses. Her black and blue marks were from the medication that she was on. She would just brush up against something and she would have a mark. We won, the charges were dimissed but we lost all control of our kids. Why? Because everytime we tried disipline them they would "cry" abuse and that they would call CPS. Thanks Janesville School District
Jul 19, 2009 at 7:59 a.m.
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I think this might clarify - this is what god says on the subject:
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Leviticus 20:9
For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
Jul 19, 2009 at 7:47 a.m.
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My wife taught school and she used to talk about the worst of the worst students, the ones who had no respect for others, were bullies, the ones who swore at her, the students who became involved in gangs and almost always followed up her comments that they also grew up in abusive and violent homes and they knew no other way of dealing with life.I bet most violent criminals were mistreated as children.
Jul 19, 2009 at 7:41 a.m.
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I'm confused. The numbers from the poll suggest that the good majority of parents (so far) believe in swatting their kids yet the kid's attitudes suggest otherwise. Does this mean that the majority of parents were for spanking but didn't because they were afraid of going to jail? That would explain a lot.
I had a relative who swatted her son. He screamed at her that he was gonna turn her in for child abuse. She put him in the car and drove him to the police station and told him to get out and tell. He wouldn't.
When I was 15, my mom told me that if I didn't quit running my mouth, she was gonna slap me in it. I said "Go ahead and I'll turn you in for child abuse." She slapped me across the face, knocking me off the chair I was standing on, and sent me sprawling on the floor. She said "Now that's child abuse. Now you gotta reason to call." I cried like a 2-year-old and apologized 18 ways from Sunday. In highsight, I had that one coming all right. Maybe she should have done it a little sooner.
Jul 19, 2009 at 7:27 a.m.
Jul 19, 2009 at 7:22 a.m.
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I can't believe "the law" would even be evoked in this subject. Family's have to decide how to rear and how to discipline their kids. It's amazing to me what a police and social-service state we've become. In other countries, they might interview the pastor on the subject -- not that I'd prefer this. Liberty requires us to respect family's choices on such matters.
Jul 19, 2009 at 3:40 a.m.
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"The parents who spank most definitely were raised with spankings and they in turn learned how to deal with anger and frustration and losing patience in a harmful, negative way, by violence."
Ladystardust? Really? Was your childhood so traumatic that you had to resort to passive parenting in your adulthood?
My parents disciplined my sister and myself with both a strong set of ethics and rules along with spanking and time in the corner. We weren't spanked hard and we weren't spanked for every infraction but we did get the idea that stealing, lying, fighting and cussing will get you a swat on the butt. Both of us are grown now, and neither one of us had to go to therapy or regress our childhoods or realign our chakras and all that new agey crap. We grew into adults who respect authority, who respect elders and who love mom and dad and each other. You waste a lot of time "explaining" things when you should be asserting that you are the adult. That's all a kid needs to know. The adult is in charge and makes the rules. You don't have to be rude or violent to enforce rules and consequences. Kids have tantrums and kids get naughty sometimes. That's part of being a kid. It's called growing and developing. Your method will have the kid in therapy to prevent the rest of their natural life and everyday experiences from "traumatizing" them. I bet you sanitize everything they touch and chew their food for them, too.
Jul 19, 2009 at 1:59 a.m.
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sorry to inform you but I only had to spank one of my children and only one time. she had been playing in the yard between a neighbors house and mine when she took off running across the road to the park. I ran out and caught her and took her back to the house and spanked her. 3 swats to the rear and not heavy handed either. I had a talk with her as well as I could considering her age (4 at the time). when she was 9 she came up to me and asked if I had remembered giving her that spanking. I told her yes and she reached out and hugged me telling me "thanks for caring, and wanting to keep me safe daddy, I love you". now I don't know what brought it on or made her think of it. still have yet to spank another child tho.
but have caution when dealing with CPS. They are known for telling you one thing then removing your children for doing as they suggested. so I do not trust this article.
Jul 19, 2009 at 1:33 a.m.
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Oh and P.S. If you are going to quote fictitious commandments just don't. There is no 11th commandment!
Jul 19, 2009 at 1:30 a.m.
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"If spanking was really effective then it would only have to happen once and I'm sure no one can tell me that they only had to spank their child ONE time and the behavior was changed." bbwill tell us what form of behavior modification you only have to use ONE time. If you have the magic discipline tool please please share it with all of us. I agree with spanking as one of many methods of discipline. Every situation and child is different. I also agree to leave it up to the parent. If ladystardust thinks that her rambling dissertations are going to sway anyone’s view that believes in spanking than she is sadly mistaken. Save your fingers and the wear and tear on your keyboard! No one is listening, just getting more and more annoyed!
Jul 19, 2009 at 1:04 a.m.
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By the way In_my_opinion I have NEVER had a problem with going shopping with my kids. That's because they know how to act and they know what behavior I expect from them. They don't throw tantrums because I don't take them to grocery store when they are tired or hungry. In fact, I have never had a negative shopping experience with my children. For your information.... now that I popped your assumptions, why don't you read my other posts and improve yourself and your children's lives by letting go of your anger and learning new ways to get through each day.
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:52 a.m.
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It was an example woodman, You obviously missed my entire point.
In my view, whenever a bigger person hits a littler person it's aggressive violence. You don't leave a mark? Bravo! You’re controlled – and smart enough to avoid accusations of abuse. You never hit in anger? Ah, your spanking is a coldly calculated act. You model behavior that teaches your child that adults can hurt children deliberately. You want to effectively deter unwanted behavior in your child and teach him consequences? Can you find no way to do this other than spanking? How limited your knowledge of children and parenting skills must be!
Corporal punishment is the use of physical pain in response to undesirable behavior. Spanking, which is just one form of corporal punishment, is defined as striking a child with the open hand on the buttocks or extremities to modify unwanted behavior without inflicting physical injury.
It sends the wrong message…
Spanking gives a child this message: it's OK for big people to hit little people. You don't hit your boss or a colleague to effectively deter unwanted behavior do you? Why hit a child? Spanking models aggressive behavior as a method of resolving conflict and is associated with increased aggression in children.
It doesn’t teach self-control…
Even if a spanking does get the child's attention, parents must remember that discipline has two goals. The first is to stop the child from doing something dangerous, hurtful, or annoying – compliance right now. The second goal of discipline is to teach the child how human beings behave when the parent is not around – self-control in the future. An angry or hurting child isn't learning effectively. Although spanking may result in immediate cessation of a behavior, spanking isn’t effective as a long-term strategy. Also, repeated spankings may result in agitated and aggressive behavior in a child, and reliance on spanking often makes other discipline strategies harder to use.
It damages your bond…
Spanking – and ‘verbal spankings’, like put-downs – makes the child dislike the parent, perhaps only temporarily. But this takes away the best thing parents have going for them when it comes to getting kids to behave: the child's loving desire to please the parent they love. Spanking older children often escalates in frequency or severity, when the child's perfectly normal, though obnoxious, behaviors become more troubling to the parents.
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:52 a.m.
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And spanking breaks the 11th Commandment: Respect thy children so they will learn to respect themselves, you, and others. We don't hit or hurt those we respect.It doesn’t work…
Spanking doesn't work. If the undesirable behavior persists or recurs, in order to maintain the initial effectiveness of the spanking, parents have to increase its severity – which can escalate into abuse. One study compared 3 year olds who didn’t comply with a time-out, half of whom were spanked and the other half kept behind a low barrier. Spanking wasn’t any more effective in correcting the child's misbehavior than the barrier.
Spanking isn’t the only method of discipline that establishes parental authority, acts as a deterrent to undesirable behavior, or gets a child's attention. I’m convinced it is an impoverished viewpoint that holds that nothing short of hurting the child will teach the child who's boss. There are many more effective discipline strategies that parents can learn to use. * Know yourself Understand your own feelings about discipline, and if you’re ever so angry you want to spank, take a parental time-out.* Know your child Read about child development so you have an idea about what to expect from your child. Spend time with your child so you can understand and work with your child's personality and temperament.* Take charge Accept your responsibility and let your child know you’re in charge – it's your job to be in charge.* Learn effective discipline techniques Parents who understand and follow these suggestions can discipline their children without spanking.
How not to spank your child
1 Commitment=You must want to change your behavior. Of course you don't want to physically hurt your child. You don't want to lose control. You don't want to give your child the message that it's OK for big people to hit little people.
2 Childproofing=You childproof your house not only to keep your child safe but also away from temptation. If your child can’t reach the computer, you won't have to spank him for pulling down the keyboard and breaking it.
3 Calming techniques=Most parents today need a crash course in stress reduction. Try these tactics:
* Take a parental time-out when you feel you’re about to lose it. Put the kids in a safe place and go to your room to cool off.
* Do a one-minute anti-stress exercise Sit in a quiet place and take deep breaths, concentrating on your breathing.
* Take a two-minute stress break Set the timer, lie down on the floor (so you won't fall asleep) and do nothing but deep breathing. By the way, children as young as 2 can do this with you. “Mommy's tired. Let's take a stress-break together.” Show the child how you breathe deeply.
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:27 a.m.
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LADY you sound like a little kid yourself! We the people that have learned respect for our elders & our neighbors,sure most of us got cracked,sounds like you didn't learn much from your up bringing. I and millions of people would never hit their parent,not once,what are you thinking that it's K to let your kid hit you,you need some parenting classes yourself,but by a parent from the old school,not by one of those dead beat book learners. Set in a corner for 3 min.,maybe if your going to punish like a two year old,you can set with this kid and play pick up sticks,you'll earn no respect for such a childish discipline,then give them a hug for being bad,BECAUSE YOU FEEL BAD for being a parent,or what! I see the next generation of a banger commin. Sure glad i won't be hear to enjoy it with you. Harsh,you bet,tired of these kids running our streets,& our lives,aren't you?
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:25 a.m.
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I haven't read one post that said "I hit my kid cuz' he hit me."
Woodsman is on the money. You're alternative parenting methods screwed up an entire generation and we are worse off for it.
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:21 a.m.
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ladystardust: LMFAO!!! Oh' wow! I needed that laugh. Did you write that crap verbatum out of the Dr. Spock book? Sorry, my bad, that's an episode of Nanny 911 right?
I love the implication that parents who spank use no alternative methods. That was hilarious.
I get such a kick out of watching parents like you with their kids in the stores. Usually your kids are acting like little heathens and you're on the verge of tears. It's priceless. It takes like what? -10 minutes to settle the situation. Then you're all flustered and forget half the stuff you came for.
To address the article, I was spanked (rarely), once my mom even used a switch (ouch), and this is the first time I've ever really thought about it. I never had to work through anything. With all my interactions with people and kids who were spanked and those who weren't, I find that the ones who were spanked are MUCH more pleasurable to be around.
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:17 a.m.
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I have the same sentiments, lovemycountry. It is COMPLETE hypocracy to say "You are not aloud to hit, so I'm going to hit you .... to teach you not to hit." Confusing!
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I completely disagree with using pain to teach a lesson. There are many other effective ways to teach your children rather than hurting them. Why would anyone want to intentionally hurt their children or belittle them?
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Anyone that says they or their children are better off because they were/are hit by their parents is lying. If spanking was really effective then it would only have to happen once and I'm sure no one can tell me that they only had to spank their child ONE time and the behavior was changed.
Jul 19, 2009 at 12:04 a.m.
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So where are all the bleeding hearts? Maybe they are in hiding,because they all know they have screwed up as parents,and i use that word parent very lightly. Their children will never be johnny come marching home,for a parent & society to be proud of. They will never be complimented for opening a door,saying yes sir,yes mam,being in the house before dark,bringing home good grades,doing chores around the house,being respectful to others,making every acquaintance in their lives wish they had a kid like that,doing a good deed for an elder,this list could go on & on,or just making the ones that reared them proud. You people make me sick,you made monsters to roam our streets,schools,and society in general.And all these know best book learning how to raise kids,i hope the bull you made society buy,by NOT letting parents be parents,is biting you all right in the a--es. Because you people are guilty of most of the problems society is enduring ,because you took the parents rights away,and we all pay. Sleep well,but you shouldn't,"EVER"!
Jul 18, 2009 at 11:38 p.m.
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Instead of spanking why not explain to your child why what they did was wrong in a simple way to get them to understand. If you need discipline, use time outs effectively. WITH A clear set of rules layed out everyday and what you expect of them, when they misbehave give a firm warning. Then when they break the rule again, put them in a boring spot for a minute or 3 or 5 allowing you to cool down and your child to think about what just happened. THEN you go and ask your child why they are being punished, and explain to them why their behaviour was unacceptable. THen you ask for an apology, kisses and cuddles, and then off they go. There's no NEED for physical contact accept for a hug at the end. If your kids are too old for time outs, then ground them, or take a way privileges. It is amazing finding out how many people around here spanks their children and it's even more ridiculus to find out what they spanked their kids for. IF you have a set of rules for you house and you teach them that young there shouldn't be too many problems. Key is to speak authoritative and firmly when you warn them (to let your kids know your serious, assuming you hardly yell at them) and to be consistent. Kids are smart, they learn quick. They don't want to feel like disappointed mom and dad, they want to help and to be good. It would also help if parents "caught" their kids being good and behaving well and gave them recognition for it so the kids build self esteem and know that you are paying attention.
How can we as rational adults hit a child for hitting someone else? The parents who spank most definitely were raised with spankings and they in turn learned how to deal with anger and frustration and losing patience in a harmful, negative way, by violence.
I will not be a hippocrate and hit my son because he hit me first. That is not right, it's confusing, and it instills fear and pain into my child instead of teaching him that getting hit hurts people and we should not hurt other people. RIGHT? It is illegal to harm another person in any way. ESPECIALLY a small defenseless child . Break the cycle!!!!
Jul 18, 2009 at 11:27 p.m.
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"Don’t tell them you love them and then hurt them. They will spend the rest of their lives working through that,"
What bull! I my parents spanked me and I'm better for it. I didn't have to "work through" anything and I have a good relationship with my parents.
Don't believe the touchy-feely-hands-off hype.
Jul 18, 2009 at 11:11 p.m.
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“Don’t tell them you love them and then hurt them. They will spend the rest of their lives working through that,” Funny...I was spanked, and I'm 46, but haven't spent my life working through the fact that my parents did love me enough to spank me. The rest of their lives...lol
Jul 18, 2009 at 10:48 p.m.
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To spank or not to spank: I say spank. Everyone else should mind their own business as well. Being abusive is another issue that is not o.k. I grew up and got spankings and I didn't like it. Did it hurt, yes but was it that bad no. The more hurtful part was getting into trouble and not the actual spanking. Was I afraid of my parents because of it, kind of. Not afraid I was going to be beaten but afraid of getting into trouble. Kids should be scared of their parents as far as getting into trouble goes. I didn't talk back to my parents either. Kids should be disciplined more today and not given everything they want. Parents are supposed to be parents and teach their children. They are not their friends. Most of the teenagers and younger adults that I have seen today have no ambition and show little respect for others let alone their elders. People should be able to raise their kids they way in which they feel is correct without nosey Nancy looking over their shoulders.
Jul 18, 2009 at 7:11 p.m.
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I found spanking to be a very effective consequence for two of my children, but not for the other. What the so-called "experts" always seem to forget is that each child is an individual, and one strategy does not fit all.
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When it came to spanking, we had a few "rules". First - only on the buttocks. You're using the pain to teach a lesson, not trying to cause injury. Second: Only after a "cool down period" and a full explanation to the child receiving the consequence. Third: Only for intentional disobedience. Fourth: Only for a very limited age range (I think about 18 months to about 8 years, although very rarely after 5).
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Our kids have not grown up "confused" or maladjusted. Spanking was a tool in our discipline "toolbox".
Jul 18, 2009 at 7:05 p.m.
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A swat here and there to teach right in wrong is fine and should be done. Abuse is much, much different. It's time kids learn there are rules. They need to be responisble. When today's kids grow up, they are in for a rude awakening! The world is not as easy as they've had it.
Jul 18, 2009 at 6:11 p.m.
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I agree with startbuck and woodman.
I always tell people that I can recall on one hand for each, the number of spankings my sons have received. But when I felt they really needed one, I wasn't afraid to give it. My sons are better off having been swatted a time or two.
Jul 18, 2009 at 5:37 p.m.
Suggest removal
Be their friend,baby them,enable them,support them until,forever! That sounds like the kids running around right now,dealing drugs,drive by's,gangin,not respecting their elders,wasting air, dead beats. Don't give them no fear or respect of the parent or god,and you get what you sow. I ain't dead from discipline,and there's millions like me. Things need to change,and if a crack on the a-- is what's needed, DO IT,your life or some innocent persons might be save,by embedding consequences now,for their actions latter.
Jul 18, 2009 at 5:08 p.m.
Suggest removal
After my 4 year old son hit his younger sister, I put him over my knee, started spanking him for the 1st time, and said "It's not right to hit your sister". If you can understand the hypocracy, you'll understand why I never spanked him again. It takes hours and hours (each week) of talking with your kids to be a good parent.
Jul 18, 2009 at 5:04 p.m.
Suggest removal
Good presentation of varied opinion. Great story, Mr. Shultz!
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