I love reading the comments on the Gazette's online stories (I am easily entertained after all), because when anonymity is involved, people will often say and do just about anything. If any one of you comes back to this story, how about getting ALL THE FACTS STRAIGHT at the informational meeting about current activities and the proposed expansion at Larson Acres. WHEN: 5 to 8 p.m. Tuesday, Aug 4. WHERE: Evansville High School auditorium, 640 S. Fifth Street, Evansville. That way, maybe you'll actually have the guts to LEARN and SAY THIS STUFF to each other's faces :)

I agree with farmgirl3 as a farmer we fill out a lot of paperwork. We get audited on our chemical use and even bt corn use. We do not have animals on our farm, so I would think they have even more. My question for some of you is: what makes a "superfarm"? How many acres? How many cows or head of livestock? And yes most farms are corporate farms because many are incorporated. What do you consider a family farm in todays economy? I'm curious to see some answers.

If you think of living next door to the Larson farm is bad. Try living next to a house that has 10 barking dogs and the owners throw the dog solid waste over the fence on the neighbors land. These two families do not understand what the word NO is and they don't understand what it means. Both parties got lawyers when they were told no and took the place where live to court. Now these places have the endure the expense of having their own lawyer represent them in court.

Very well said farmgirl

I would just like to say - Do you have any idea the amount of regulation that is done by the DNR and extension office with large scale dairy operations? The manure management plans that must be filed yearly. If other businesses were required to file the amount of paperwork that most farms are required they would probably quit. People who want to control how someone on an agriculturally zoned area of the county runs their farming operation should look at the amount of polution that GM has dumped on the city of Janesville. Manure at least is put back into the soil and is a natural byproduct. But we want GM to stay and reopen a plant that has contaimented the soil at the plant site so badly that it can not be renewed it must be dug out and replaced. We are an agricultural state. And I would agree that if you don't like the smell go back to the city and stay there. People who move to the country and buy 5 acre lots and try to tell the farmers what to do are amazing you knew it was a farming communtiy but now you complain about the smell. We were there first I don't move into your backyard and tell you how to run your business or your home and if I did you can bet you'd be screaming all the way to the county board.

To all you people whining and complaining about moveing into the country and haveing to put up with all the odors and dust etc I say move back to the city and get off the farmers back and let them prosper and grow. Remember that most of those farmers were out there first before you were and you should of known what to expect when you moved to the country, so deal with it

The caption reads that these cows are located on Hwy B. As the heifers are raised off premises, only the milers are on HWY B.

So these are miking cows, despite the fact that their udders are not easily seen.

I talked to a family member who lives just down the road from the Larson Farm. He said he was out on his front porch enjoying the early morning. He said it would have been a perfect day but when the wind came up all he could smell was the stench from the the Larson's farm. Before anyone gets all bent out of shape this person has lived on his farm way before the Larson's became a mega farm. He lives about 4 miles from the Larson's. He has raised pigs cows and beef and knows what animals smell like. Right now he doesn't have his beef and cows at his place they have been moved to another farm so they can graze in peace.

The slats in the concrete floors do not prevent the cows from laying in their own sh*t. There is still manure on the concrete. Standing on concrete all day is what causes these animals to have hoof and foot problems. The free stalls aren't even long enough for the entire cow, so that their *ss can hang off the edge so they poop on the slats. It isn't very comfortable. The cows do have free range of the concrete-floored, sand filled stalls in there barn, but they do not get to go outside. Oh yes, and then they get to go into the milking parlor 2-3 times per day where their teets are cleaned and their milk is extracted. The people who are milking just see the cows hind ends. Do you guys not care that the average life span of a cow at a dairy factory is only 3-5 years? Did you know that cows can live to be 20???? At the farm I worked at, the cows lived to be over 10. It may not be as profitable, but that is not my point.
There are small dairies that do not take good care of their cows either. My original point was and still is, that is is SAD to see the traditional family farm come to an end, and these factory farms take over. I am knowledgeable in the dairy field as well as the veterinary field, as I have worked in both since 1995. Say what you want, but I think it is sad, that's all.

Well, if it supports six families then by all means pollute away. Why do we even have zoning laws? They don't mean anything. Anyone promising jobs or money can get a town board to practically do whatever they want. No other business is less regulated and more subsidized than farming. No OSHA, no minimum wage, no pollutions controls.

There is less regulation of small farms. Contribution of pollutants to groundwater and surface waters are probably greater with them than with large operations. But when there is a problem with a large farm, it is more of a catastrophic event due to the shear size of the operation.

Wouldn't it be nice if these folks installed a few bio-digesters to turn the mookie into fuel?

The caption under the picture says COWS. You obviously are set in thinking they are HEIFERS and I didn't start this whole defining thing, that was Liketoeat. Then you had to chime in with a whole bunch of nonsense as in your last post. I'm glad YOU consider yourself smart, because I highly doubt anyone else does.

You're right farmgirl, I would MUCH rather be inside, bunched up together with a whole bunch of other cows with hardly any room to move than be outside in the fresh air. Oh but wait, if I were a cow, I'd want to be clean! Do you really think animals care if they are sparkling? Because I'm sure they will trade the fresh air and room to move so they can look good. Because that is what cows care about.

I have been to plenty of dairy farms. I have lived in the country for 45 years. My neighbors had cows. One of my closest friends and coworkers has a small organic farm. He keeps his cows out to pasture in comfortable temps and brings them in during extreme temps. I went on a field trip tour with my nephew to Tidy View Dairy that houses 6500 cows. So I've seen the way both are. So I've seen how cows that are out to pasture are compared to cows in a large scale operation. Not that I needed to explain any of that to anyone.

serendipitous-I do actually consider myself to be very smart and successful as a matter of fact. Oh, don't worry I would be ashamed of your opinions and need to define words to try and make others feel inferiour and would not want someone like you to be my child. Have you ever spent a day on a farm, really?? You try and make a point to define COW then in the same breath generalize the word COW. Not sure what farmers you socialize with but they say going to milk the cow for a reason and putting a bull in the heifer pen for a reason. To generalize it would be cattle or livestock. Looks like I have hit the hot button with you. Never once did is disagree with the Gazette or Larson, not sure where you are going with that comment and as a matter of fact I don't have to rely on text research since I have lived it. I totally agree Farmgirl3.

I usually don't comment on any dairy issues however this is completely out of hand. I have seen how cows are treated on large scale dairy operations and if I were a cow I would much rather be in a free stall barn CLEAN, not out in the mud of the feed lot or in a pasture that by this time of year is eaten to stub and burnt up with no rain. I would much rather a flush system remove the waste in the free stall barn so I wouldn't have to lay it all day in the lot. And for all of you who think that cows are outside are happier maybe in the summer but what about when its 20 below 0 outside? I think that before someone is allowed to open their mouths and spew uninformed quotes about life on a large scale dairy they need to tour one and then tour the "family farm" with the muddy feed lot that most cows are in. The pasture is pretty much nonexistant.

Momofjnc, you are so smart. I wish I could be just like you.

In the definition of "cow" and "heifer", the only difference between the two is one has had a calf (cow) and one has not (heifer). I highly, highly, highly doubt that Larson's whole stock are heifers that do not produce milk. After all, they are a DAIRY farm. So to me, and all the other farmers in the world, these are cows. Yes, some may be heifers, but not all, they are cows. And even the heifers are cows. Because heifers also eventually develop udders whether or not they have had a calf. Do some research. If you still disagree, you might want to let the gazette know that they are WAY OFF BASE. Larson's might want to know that they are wrong too.

By the way, momofjnc, I was being facetious when I said you were smart. And I think I'll decide when to put my thoughts to rest. I don't need you being my mom too.

I do think that Larson's take good care of their cows-I don't argure that. I remember reading in one of the articles that they have a vet out there about every day to look after the herd health. In the picture the cows/heifers do look clean. It is still not a normal way of life for these animals to be just a number in a barn. If the manure could be turned into an alternative energy source that would be huge. My biggest argument is that they are only one accident away from polluting everybody's groundwater now. How much water is pulled from the ground now in a given day to take care of the cows and irrigate crops? At what point do you say thats more than your fair share?

Found this on the May 30th article...put it to rest: The town and a group of neighbors are appealing a state livestock siting board decision, which overturned some conditions the town board had imposed on the farm as part of a conditional-use permit for the Larsons to house up to 1,500 heifers in a barn.

The photo is probably of heifers.

Whenever I was on the farm when it was time to eat, that is when we milked the cows while they ate (do I need to define any part of this sentance??), so yes you would be able to see their udders. By carefully looking at the picture it does appear to be feeding time and I do not see any udders ready to be milked, it would be obvious. SO not that it makes a bit of difference but I don't think they are COWS. Serendipitous- you seem very argumentative, relax. A lot of us like our meat and killing is the only way we get it, it is a part of every culture....fish, cattle, pigs, bugs, poltury,...you name it. Some wish to go back to a time of simpler living well I don't think there were many vegetarians or vegans back then. Little House on the Prairie showed a lot of family dinners with meat, potatoes and milk. Would you also argue if these cattle were outside in the dead of winter?? They would be getting their fresh air, correct.

Maybe the Larsons should go into the energy business. At the Farm Tech Days at the Crave Farm in Waterloo. They have a way of making energy from the manure that runs the farm, cheese factory and six other houses in the area. Then they (the Larsons) would be helping the community and the enviorment

Liketoeat, I'm not sure what your point is. The shot is an aerial shot. You can't see under the cow. Heifers also have udders, but according to your logic (that we can not see udders in the picture), they wouldn't be heifers either. The point is... these are COWS. Bulls don't have udders, so maybe these are a bunch of bulls???? Because that would make sense right? A dairy farm has 1000-2000 bulls???? See... doesn't make sense. Maybe you should concentrate on the story at hand instead of the picture.

serendiptious- Joe referenced the picture, said they were cows, thank you for the definition of a cow. you validated my point. Cows have udders, where are they in the picture? Cows do not like to be hot in the summer,so they would go to where they feel most comfortable. inside a barn lying on sand, with fans blowing will be where cows from every size herd would congegrate.

To all of the critics and "educators" adding to this blog. Prior to having a conclusion regarding this economic growth in my community, why don't you attend an upcoming educational meeting and then form your conclusion. A judgment without information represents an uneducated or biased and prejudicial opinion.

How ironic Larson Acres wants to double their operation. In this clip of Walker Texas Ranger, you can see how Chuck Norris resolved a similar situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ5w4MkFo...

Liketoeat... a "cow" is an adult female that has had one or more calves. A "heifer" is a young female that has had no calves. So I'm not sure why you singled Joe about trying to make him look like he doesn't know what he's talking about. There is no way to tell if these cows are actually cows or heifers. Also, the reason they are all standing up is, yes, they are feeding, but the surrounding area of the feeder is where they lay. Our complaint was that these cows do not get outside to graze.

If this family wants to expand, they should follow all the rules, and take extra precaution to protect and preserve the natural resources in their area. It would seem from other articles on this subject that the Larsens do not want to follow the rules, and their neighbors are watching with a microscope because of all the problems in the past.

Joeschmo- for working on a farm in your past you would be able to realize that the picture shows a group of heifers not cows and that the reason they are all standing up is because the feed truck just passed by.

2dognight- Do you know who the citizen water monitors are? I am curious, because I am also a citizen water monitor and I would like to help out.

When will Larson's just give up?? They have been dragging Magnolia Township thru the courts for how many years now over the last expansion? Nobody wants that big of a farm in the area. They have pitted neighbor against neighbor. They went ahead and built the last heifer shed before the permits had gone thru-they knew they would get what they wanted in the end-money speaks. From what I can see Larson's have made plenty of money off of what they already have-why the greedy need to expand? Those cows also will need to have water which they will be pulling more out of the groundwater system. They have to be fed-when you drive by they are irrigating the corn fields-another draw on the groundwater. The manure all has to be injected somewhere. At times when you drive by the odor is bad-its not the normal farm smells. We have 3 corporate farms in the area now. That is more than what our natural resources can handle.

Ugh.

It's just plain dangerous when we rely on superfarms to produce the majority of our food. The pollution produced by this high occupancy farm will be horrendous, and it will take hundreds of years for the local natural resources to recover.

I hope Food, Inc gets to Rock County, but i bet it doesn't.

Large farms like Larson's are what is keeping the California dairy industry going. Unfortunately, it's all industry.

When it's corporations, and not family farms, the corporations odn;t care about the towns and cities they pollute. Why should they?

The farm may support six families, but the families don't live on the farm. They would never stand to live in such an environment.

When Premium Standard farms opened up their 25,000+ hog raising facilities, homes up to 3 miles away were rendered uninhabitable because of the rancid stench of pig manure. About 10 years later, the citizens are just starting to recoup their losses.

Well, the days of the family farm, where that happened are going distant in the past. That's the ideal situation. As it was on my family's farm.

I don't need to research how to farm or list websites for that either.
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I am sorry, however, that because you are an animal activist, that you assume that animals are mistreated.
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The cows in the picture are clean and are "moving" aroung. Not tied in stalls. There are no ties in the stalls.

And I did my own research. A free stall is where "cattle are free to enter unoccupied stalls" (http://medical-dictionary.thefreediction...). So, yes, they are kept indoors and are allowed to rest in an unoccupied stall. If I was a cow and I had my choice, I'd still rather be outside. Not cooped up in a barn with hundreds or thousands of other cows searching out a "free stall" to rest in.

Come on, Swiss Chick... start reading my posts. Don't assume anything about what I write, just READ what I WROTE. Nowhere does it say in anything that I've posted that it is JUST Larson's. And no, I do not have anything against them; I do not know them. What I do know is what is listed in the article and what I see in the picture. Did you even read the article? I realize you aren't reading posts, but did you read what it is written by Ann Marie?

It's really hard to have any kind of productive discussion with someone that makes assumptions, and uses "NOT" and "whatever" everytime they can't think of a point.

Work on your vocabulary, then we'll talk. While you're at it, you might want to take some kind of research class so you can prove your points a little better. You still haven't answered any of my questions.

That's why they are called "free stalls". Go take your own tour.
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Apparently, you are the one not reading the posts. Mine or anyone else's.

So, instead of "all", it's just Larson's animals? Apparently, you have a grudge against them personally. Whatever.

It will be interesting to see the environmental
assessment done by DNR. The Larson farm is very close to Allen Creek.
These large farms use a huge amount of water and discharge a large amount too. Water quality is important to many people. The public health department is having people with septic tanks have their discharge checked every three years. There is an effort to preserve water quality. I am glad that the DNR will perserve our water through careful management. This is something to watch for by citizens.

"NOT"? Really? I can tell who I'm arguing with now.

If you know so much on the topic, why don't you give me some links that I can read up on? Or why don't you walk me around YOUR dairy farm and show me what life is like? Instead of just throwing general comments out there, educate me. Tell me about your experiences. I'm going to need to see some proof that you know what you're talking about because I can't just take the word of someone that says "NOT" to try and prove a point.

Maybe you need to learn more about the subject. You claim they are in stalls 24 hours a day. NOT. Learn about the topic before you comment. Until you learn about the topic, your arguments are pointless!

Swiss... where did I say ALL farm animals were mistreated and beaten? Where did I even say "beaten"? If you can find that quote, I will retreat.

Ummm.... last I knew, the people that work at vegetable and fruit farms aren't put into stalls where they stay for 24 hours with no exercise, sunshine or love. I do believe they can also leave when their shift is over and resume a life that they choose to live. If you can show me a place where they are, again, I will retreat.

And by the way, I said I was a vegan, not a vegetarian. There is a big difference. Are you taking any time at all to read what people say?

Your arguments are pointless.

It is obvious that with expanding population we should take a very close look at new business expansions- especially when they affect the live of so many people living near them. With research and modern methods we should be able to make them more people friendly- but we seem to rush in and not do the necessary planning. Just because someone has a family history does not mean they should be able to destroy the quality of life of others.

By the way, on the very west edge of Milton city limits, there is a dairy farm (not a large dairy) where the animals are seen from the road covered in filth and the place looks like a wreck.
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Don't blame big dairys for mistreatment until the smaller ones are taken care of.

I'd like to get the large fruit and vegetable farmers out west and down south to treat their day workers better than they do. That's for all the vegetarians out there to work on.
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Not ALL animals are mistreated and beaten on farms. Get a clue!

Good point, Joe. My mother also works in a hot, dingy, dark factory for 10 hours per day, but yes, she gets to leave and enjoy the fresh air. She also gets to take sick and vacation days when needed.

The only reason I jumped into this article was because I'm an animal rights activist (not a psycho one, don't worry) and a vegan, so I won't be walking down the dairy aisle of the store anytime soon.

And yes, at times, I do believe animals should get the same treatment as humans. There are a lot more loving animals than there are humans. But mostly, I think animals should be treated humanely and not have to live a life to suffer.

Any, by the way, not all farmers use growth hormones, or have pesticides or herbicides in their feed. In fact, the guys I know are very picky about what is in the feed they feed their cows and calves.

You need to get your pricing straight. Milk is going for approximately $10.00/hundred weight. Farmers would be rolling in the dough if the price was $10.00/lb. In fact, I'd be buying a farm so I could milk cows.

I know several owners of big dairys (not the Larsons), and have been at their locations. The animals are clean and well kept, as were my Dad's. Notice the slats in the floors. The animal waste does through them to storage. They also have regular veterinary visits for ill animals as did my dad (on a 60-cow "family farm"). On rare occasions, my Dad also had to sell ailing cows, too. It's sad but necessary at times. These animals are not chained to a stall all day. They are "free" to roam around the barn. Yeah, I also miss seeing cows graze as I'm driving down the road, though.
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Times have changed since I grew up on a dairy farm (I still miss it), and farmers are trying to adapt the best way they know how with the most efficiency means available.
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It's really sad to say, but the 60-100 cow "family farm" is probably a thing of the past.
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When you nay-sayers have something to gripe about regarding the dairy farmers, think twice when you are in the dairy isle at the grocery store.

If milk farmers want to increase profits, they should go organic. Right now, conventional milk (milk that includes bovine growth hormones/pesticides/herbicides) is fetching $10/lb. Organic milk is getting $25/lb. 2.5x higher.

Being that I live in the country, LOVE the smell of manure, showed dairy in 4H and FFA, and milked cows for 5 years, I do not have a "beef" with farmers or what they do. I am only saying that it is sad to see the end of the family farm. Where the cows are healthy, each has a name, get to go outside and graze, aren't given rBGH, and get to live to be over 10 years old. Again, I understand farmers need to expand to make a living. It is sad to see the farms turn into factories. I'm not saying the cows should be treated as well as humans, but I believe that their living/working situation is not ideal.
And to Momof jnc- these cows are in the same or worse conditions as your mom who works in a factory. Except they don't get to go home and relax or go outside, or take a shower. They have to push their way around 2,000 other cows to eat feed that is not their natural food source. Have any of you ever worked at a dairy? Have you ever seen what its like at a family farm vs a big dairy? Not only for the cows, but the workers as well. I have been in both situations, and my point is that the cows just aren't taken care of as well at big dairies, and only live to be the ripe old age of 4 on average. Go ahead and expand, Larson Acres, I just wish I could still drive through the country and see cows grazing in Oak filled pastures like I did when I moved to Wisconsin.

Oh, one more thing to serendipitous, any one of us that works is considered a cash source to our employer, are we not?? So yes, the cow are assets to the Larsons and are truely their bread and butter so if they are sick they are worthless to the Larson. I am sure they take care of their assets to maximize profits.

From looking at the picture these cows are very clean, have some of you even driven past some farms where the cows are covered in mud and poop?? I have and those dirty cows are the ones that are in open pastures and correct, they may be getting fresh air but they are still laying and eating within their own filth. It looks to me Larsons are taking good care of their livestock and should be commended for having nice facilities and willing to expand to offer more jobs. My mom works in a factory 8 hours a day and it is hot, smelly, and she is constantly straining her body to make a dollar, it seems some of you feel the cows should be treated better than our blue collar worker in Rock County, get a grip people!!

I agree with Joe. These cows are kept in very close quarters. That isn't healthy for them. When animals are put into shelters, they get "cage crazy". They get aggressive. They get sick. These cows go through the same thing. If there is anyone out there that has a problem with this point of view, I would like to offer you a challenge: Lock yourself in a little room full of other people. Once the door is locked, it's locked. There is no bathroom, there is no warm bed, there is no shower. You will have to crap on the ground you sleep on. You will get no sunshine. And you will get no exercise. Then I want you to realize what it is like to be a cow. I realize cows don't shower or need a warm bed - I was using human examples. Every living being has needs and feelings. I don't care if it's "just a cow", they need to be able to roam free to get plenty of fresh air, sunshine and exercise. I'm not against Larson's expanding, but they need to treat their cows better. They are not JUST a cash source. They are living beings.

I agree... if you can't run with the farmers, stay in the city! Be thankful there are people that love farming! I love the country life... especially the smells (poop or no poop).

On the other hand, coming from a farming family, what's wrong with letting the cattle roam free? Back in the day, cattle got to roam more freely and there weren't the same issues as today. I love driving through the country and having cattle run along the road!

How come the farmers are the big hits on everyone complaining about what they do. This is one of the oldest professions. They provide food for the economy and basically are self sufficient in producing its own feed to take care of the animals but God forbid should someone move to the country to enjoy the country life have a good smell of cow manure and then it is a tradegy. Grow up people this is part of country life. If you do not like the smell stay in the city. There are so many hoops the Larson family has to jump thru just to basically make ends meet for their families it is ridiculous. Why are we so curious about everyone elses' business, lets focus on our own for a change. Being someone that lives across from Larson Acres on Hwy 59. Yes sometimes the smell is pretty ripe, but I would rather have the smell than have new house go up on good farmland and then have it sit empty.

deweeze- Just look at that picture next to the article. You CAN NOT tell me these cows are taken care of better than most people take care of themselves. Would you ever live in that close of quarters with 2,000 other people?

Do most people not get to go outside, are on strict high protein diets, have to lay in sand and their own filth? Do most people just get sent to market if they are sick?
I understand that farmers need to make money. I am not against expanding farms, large milking parlors, etc. Why can't these cows go outside? Why can't they be treated with more care? After all, these factory farms are exploiting the animals to make money. So shouldn't they take better care of the cows and help them to live a happier, longer, healthier life?
The farmer I worked for had to sell his cows because he couldn't compete anymore and couldn't afford to expand. Why can't farms expand and still be family farms? These are FACTORIES, not farms. There is NO WAY that these cows are better taken care of than most humans. I have been to Larsen Acres, and that was shortly after they first expanded. I can't imagine what its like now. It makes me sick. I know what its like to not have a lot of money. That doesn't mean I would EVER take advantage of anyone or anything just to get rich. And with a 1.4 million payroll, I'm thinking that the Larsen's have plenty of money.

JoeSchmo
If you want the farmer to live and produce like it is still the 1930's and 1940's then I suggest YOU too start earning thats era's wage and try to live at today's standards!

Those cows are better taken care then most people take care of themselves.

bring on the smell.

http://advocacy.britannica.com/blog/advo...

Cows’ natural life expectancy is 20 years or more, but the average dairy cow lives just 3 to 4 years, exhausted by constant lactation and frequent disease.

Annie50-
I agree that it is good to have local business and not send the Larsons packing. BUT- how would you like to live near a farm with over 5,000 cows? When a lot of those folks moved there, Larson Acres was just a regular old family farm, not a huge dairy like it has become. The environmental effects of these huge dairies are also a concern for area residents and the town. Its not like folks are trying to run them out of town or are just being mean for no reason. Everyone should be able to have their voices heard, not just those with the money.
The Larsons are able to carry on a family legacy without having 5,000 cows. They can have 100 cows. Their legacy shouldn't be in the number of cows or size of their business.

It is so sad to see the demise of the family farm. The cull rates at these huge dairies are ridiculously high. The cows have more health problems due to being stuck in free stall barns, never being outside, not enough exercise, and poor/if any veterinary care. If a cow is sick, they ship it. I understand the need to make profits, and especially with the declining milk prices, but these animals deserve to be treated humanely. FOr example, being let outside in a pasture to graze, having hoof and foot care, etc. These poor animals are never even let outdoors. I knew the names of every single cow that I milked at my neighbors dairy farm. Each had their own personality, lived to be 10+ years old, and were great milkers. I salute all of you family farmers out there who are still hanging on and taking care of your cows. Good luck to you, give those girls a hug for me!

It's a shame that other people are trying to prevent the Larson's from expanding. This is their family business. Other business owners expand their businesses, however, not very often are there objections. Why should farming be any different? The Larson's are keeping the economy going. Hello???? They could decide to move to another state. Wisconsin then loses. Other businesses that supply the farm's needs, or businesses that rely on the milk, would suffer great losses. To those people that are whining and complaining, please just let the Larson's expand and carry on a family legacy. Be thankful that something is still in Wisconsin.

Oh Poop