momnahalf- yes what is with this STUPID comment on EVEY BLOG?????? shut up already.

Are you reading the truth, or what Editor Scott Angus wants you to hear ? It seems Mr. Angus has taken up censorship on other articles on the Gazette Extra.....

http://www.gazettextra.com/news/2009/jul...

Momof5......Guessed right with the first one, but I agree w/ the Triumph comment too.....I absolutely love the Triumph Speed Triple and their Daytona 675. A black speed triple is on the short list for my next bike--maybe in 2 or 3 years when this economic mess is behind us. There's a great Triumph dealership in J-Ville too, so that's icing on the cake.......

Ducati? Aprilla? You seem like a Triumph kind of guy actually :)

Ihavealife.....Arlington has plenty of capacity to meet those needs. The plant was completely shut down in May and June and there is talk of it being shut down for two weeks in August. They still have excess inventory that they need to shed. We've gotten way off point here again.....Sorry!!!!

momof5...It's actually really easy to track inventory levels of any car or truck at the local dealerships. Most of them have these amazing things called websites that allow one to select a specific model of vehicle.......Once the selection is made the website instantly tells the user exactly how many are available and what options they have--All of this can be done in under a minute!!!!......Obviously you have the internet--try it sometime:)
I understand that all manufactures discount the prior years production run......that is exactly the point that I was trying to make. The reason there's not an excessive amount of them at the dealerships is that production has been drastically cut(w/ the shut down Janesville assembly) and that the dealers don't want excess inventory.......It is not because they are selling them quicker than they can get them in.
As far as your last question, no the bike is not a beemer--I never really took to their bikes--It is Euro though. Yes, we'll probably go out riding on Friday(weather permitting) and stop for one or two afterward:)

916..Spin it anyway you'd like ! Lets see if Arlington can keep up demand for the overseas market?? After all 85% of the trucks built here were for overseas...or do they also don't want/need SUVs ???

Ihavealife.....I'm sure the dealers don't want to invest heavily in the 2010 SUV inventory until they clear their lots of the 2009 models.....Bottom line is that were in a recession and the dealers don't want an excessive amount of inventory on the books. What were the year to date sales of the Suburban in 2007 compared to the year to date sales of the Suburban this year? I think a comparison of those numbers would explain why the dealers aren't carrying too many in their inventory......

916: how in the heck would YOU, a European car snob, know how hard/easy it is to find and "ugly piece of junk" Tahoe/Suburban/Yukon right now?? I AM in the market for one and NONE in Janesville, Dane County or Sauk County have Janesville, WI listed as their final assembly location. They are ALL from Arlington. Janesville hasn't built these trucks in 7 months but they are "all" off the lots??.... PS--ALL car manufacturers discount prior model years. That is why, traditionally, August and September have always been the best months to buy a new car! Stick to the things you know: Bimmers and driving after a few on your motorcycle--is that a Bimmer also?? :)

916...Yes you can see/get them off a lot ??? I would say to only be able to pick from 3-5 different ones is not a big choice.I checked the local dealers..Janesville,Madison,Beloit and 3 Milwaukee dealers and found 23.Do you really think/feel 6 dealerships are really sitting on 23 SUVs that will not sell ???And by the way none of them show having 2010's.

momof5.....ok.....you're right--they just brought in the '09 models 6 weeks ago, just so they could turn around and sell them for $6,000 under MSRP......LMAO!!!!! This conversation started with the comment that GM SUVs were difficult to find on dealer lots.....they're not......As I said, GM shut down an entire plant that produced them and is still able to meet demand--Get the picture?--so let's move on:)

TheJoker: and isn't your everyday driver a "real" truck? Ya know, a Toyota Tundra or wait. Is it a Honda Ridgeline. I forget.....

916: YOU are missing the point. YOU said they were manufactured over a year ago... Sure it makes sense for a business to be liquid right now. But,let us not confuse being liquid with having year old 2009 models on the lot.

momof5/ihavealife.......regardless of the build date on the Yukon/Suburbans on Fagan's lot....I think your losing sight of the point here. In an economy such as this, any business is going to want to be as liquid as possible. The dealer is not going to want to tie up it's cash in expensive inventory that might be difficult to sell. I would think that if Fagan wanted to have 20 Suburbans sitting on it's lot, GM would be extremely happy to oblige! Obviously demand for the larger SUVs is down. GM shut down an entire plant that made them. If they were selling like crazy the Janesville assembly plant would still be running.....Fagan still has every model of SUV available along with the '09s which can be had at a substantial discount. Keeping limited inventory is just a smart business practice during this time.......

Momo, I own several cars-some American and some foreign. What of it?

916: 2009 models could have been produced as recent as may/june..6 weeks is hardly a year!! I've been looking for a Janesville made Yukon and can only find Arlington made SUVs...hmmm...last Janesville made SUVs rolled off the line in December but yet 6 months later one cannot find one made there?? Hmmm....

TheJoker: Why do you weigh in on GM articles? Isn't your true vehicle of choice an MG?

Dude: wth are you talking about?? My point is unknown is NOT in the military as he claimed. I do not know what it is like to be serve and fight--but I do know what it is like to comfort your best friend who is scared her son won't make it back from Iraq. I know what it is like to hear a Blackhawk helicopter was shot down with crews from Wisconsin on board--worried sick about your cousin who was the crew chief. It is a MAJOR sacrifice and obligation to be taken serious: NOT lied about on some arbitrary comment section. As an active duty soldier THAT should chap your hide--not me supposedly not knowing what I'm talking about. One doesn't have to be a veteran to be patriotic and supportive of the BEST military in the world! Nor does one need to have first hand experience to have no tolerance of imposters!

FreedonSpeaks said: "The profits don't stay here they go back to they homelands."

I might point out that GM hasn't made a profit for years, borrowed billions of dollars from the government, which won't possibly be paid back, and still had to fire thousands of employees. The loyalty to a dying company is amazing.

Just ask, sorry, never even been to Iowa. But it is good to be missed!

The frog (GM) has boiled to death, too late.

I was wonderring when theJoker was going to participate - rumor had it that he went to Iowa to get married - welcome back dude!

I have no relatives that have worked at GM, but plenty of friends. Our farm has always bought GM vehicles and will continue to do so. Today we have a 2009 yukon and 2-2005 sierra trucks and a 2007 buick passenger car. I had to order my most recent truck (which isnt done yet) because they couldnt find one we wanted. Strange to think there is a back log on trucks? The only complaint I have is the cost, but there isnt much out there with the durability and power we need. Tough to see so many people out of work and having a tough time. That is why a new truck is in the works, to help our economy roll again. Thanks for making the yukons, we have loved all 4 that we have owned over the years.

As usual, this board has gone way off topic and filled with a bunch of whiners and hate to say it, a bunch of losers spreading utter nonsense and outright lies. I will not lower my standards to contribute any more to these low iq conversations. No wonder Janesville is going down the tubes.

916... I really don't believe those 3 SUVs have been on the lot for a year ?? I'll call Jimmy myself and ask him.

dude...nice post! That is the true spirit of military service.

ihavealife--considering the 2010 models are in, Fagan has been sitting on the '09 models for about a year--so yes, they are having trouble selling them......hence the $6,000 under MSRP price. Having over $100K wrapped up in 3 SUVs for over a year, Fagan could have definitely invested the money in other less expensive vehicles which they could have turned much quicker.......

Kraut60:
You did 20 years in the USN, have you ever been in a combat zone? because Kuwait doesnt count, and your deployments are what 6 months on a boat. Try 15 months in the desert. But kudos to you for doing 20. But as a vet myself, no vet really has the right to bitch and complain, we fight so others can, not us, hence why we do our job for the honor NOT THE GLORY.

JustAskMe: You found the largest group of whinners, wow, look at what you are doing whinning about whinners, come on now, lets be real

momof5 and unknown:
you both talk soooo big like you know everything, expecially momof5 sounds like you are nothing but a cousin, sister, mother, daughter, friend, best friend or whatever else you are to people who are serving and not you, so what do you really know? NOTHING!! You scale back a bit on your posts cause you are making yourself sound foolish. And to Mr. Unknown, how in the heck did you not know anything bout what was going on back in janesville while you were deployed if you were deployed. I was deployed to Iraq in 07 to 09 and i knew plenty of what was goin on back in janesville, its call the MWR, phone and internet center, and you cant tell me you never had time, working 15 or more hour days, flying over the skys of Iraq for 8 of those hours as a helicopter crewmember. You must not have managed your time right. So you were awarded the purple heart i am assuming, and not that you are out you should be collecting medical disability, which is an ok amount of cash. You make no sense. And momof5 i have no words for you. But I am about to leave for my second tour in Iraq. So i really dont need to be wasting my time with you cry babies.

916...WOW! I checked Fagan they have 1 Suburban and 2 Tahoes 2009,and 16 Silverados....but people are not buying them ??? Wonder what happened to the 400 days on hand trucks ???

ihavealife.....he's talking about the Tahoe and Suburban. They're on the dealer lots, but not in quantity. The dealer is not going to stock inventory that is not selling--they would have to be stupid to have $30-40K vehicles sitting idle on their books. That said Fagan has '09 Suburbans and Tahoes that someone could probably get a great deal on.......

Whoever said Do yourself a favor and go out and buy a Honda, Toyota or BMW that was built in this country....That would be the right way to support America!!!! Is a total Idiot! The profits don't stay here they go back to they homelands. Top wages in Japan & China are just a little over $7 - 8. And they work 7 days a week, no weekends. Wow that's top dollar here in Janesville. I'm so glad we're in the top wage scale with other countries. I guess it's a good thing G.M. is leaving don't want Janesville to be growing. Seems all you people that are jealousy of G.M. probably couldn't do their work anyway. Line work and chasing trucks every 45 seconds or so is hard work 10 hrs a day. Janesville is looking at hard times down the road. When people's unemployement runs out and there's no good paying job's. Then you will start to see the effects of the G.M. plant and parts plants effect the area. So instead of putting down, we need to start lifting each other up and helping each other to get through these hard times.

JustAskMe...Gas guzzlers ???Are you talking about the SUVs that you can't find on the car lots right now ?? Really if no one is buying or wants them...where are they ?? I drive a Chevy truck that gets 28 city....Your point is what ??

life...LOL. That's about the only sentence he got right.

wow - I just found the largest group of whiners on the planet. It will be nice in a few years when our community gets-over the GM curse that we all had to deal with. But the nation won't soon forgive us for being a part of putting so many gas guzzlers out on the road.

From what I have heard the plant was used as collateral for the loan they got from the Govt. It is the only plant GM owns outright. Only when the loans are paid back can GM dispose or do what it sees fit with it. It's current status is "standby" supposedly meaning they could start production of something there if the demand ever comes back.

noname53545...What "herd" ?? cows ??? What plasnt ?? Is that planet?? What one are you on ??...unknown !!!

*plant not planted. oopsy!

noname53545: are you the alter-ego of unknown?? Spelling would indicated you are :)

But, yes, I do wonder the same. Was this planted listed as a part of "Old GM" or did it gt carried over to the "New GM"???

ihavealife: took the words right out of my mouth!

Well at least your spelling has improved !!

Semper Fi, unknown, Semper Fi.

If you read back in unknown's posts he says he was born and lived in Janesville for forty years. So that would mean he was born about 1969-70, add 18 and he would have graduated somewhere around 1987-88. Just wonder why he waited till he was 30+ years old to join the Marines. Something just doesn't add up. And BTW, he also claimed he worked for GM, Lear, and LSI. Don't know what to believe.

Kraut: who am I to take him to task on his timeline? Let me tell you... I am the daughter of a PROUD veteran. I am the best friend to a deeply entrenchend military family. My bff's husband is a LTC in the Army and has been deployed now for 330 days with 300 more to go--his original papers called for an activation of 270 days. 2 of their 3 kids in the military are leaving for Iraq and Afghanistan in 14 and 21 days respectively. Their other son is leaving in January. I am the sister of a soldier leaving for Iraq in November--after just coming back about 10 months ago. I am the cousin of a BlackHawk helicopter crew chief who served in Iraq and was nearly captured by guerillas in Honduras. I am the friend of a career Naval officer. I am a PROUD American who supports our troops and the sacrifices they and their families make! So, kraut60, while "unknown" certainly could have been posting on here while in the sandbox, he certainly cannot use the excuse "they didn't tell us" or "I lost my house because they lied" when he made a post of March 20 saying "this was on 27 News last night...." or on March 28 "this weather we had last week was what was called a false spring...." If Rock County goes by the name of Iraq, the yeah, I guess "unknown" was there in the spring. And, that, kraut60, should tick you off as a 20+ year naval veteran!!!!!! God Bless the USA and keep our troops safe!

momof5 you are right you need 20 yrs to retire but you don't have to hold your rank for 3 yrs, for your retirement pay it is time in grade and years of service.

kraut60...I stand by what I said !!! I don't believe him... not ONE word of it ! I understand that someone can post on these boards while in Iraq...Take the time and read his posts from spring of 09 and you tell me if you truely think he was in Iraq at the time ?? Be carefull or you to will have egg on your face ! NO ONE has the right to disgrace our military personal in ANY form !! JMO

Any "fire" one receives on the gaz blogs is generally non-fatal, possibly friendly and often poorly aimed...you're safe here momof5. As to Unknowns situation re; what was listed in your post...who are you to take him to task for a timeline of accountability? Somebody crown you the default conscience of these blogs?

And, unknown, I always thought one needed 20+ years in the military (plus 3 years at their current rank) to retire from the military.... Apparently you lie more than just in your bed!

916: It IS American to choose what you drive. I'm not, nor have I ever, said that all imports are junk. There are a few out there that I would drive. The imports' styling, if nothing else, has been better than domestics on cars for a long time now. The last 2 years or so, domestics have made huge strides. I'm not saying it is un-American to not buy GM or Chrysler because of the bailout or any other reason. What is un-American is to wish ill on a company and boycott them. Then, when they dissolve completely, these same un-Americans will be bitching that they are still owed millions of dollars by said company. If we cannot help ourselves and be the UNITED States of America, who can help us?!

Whoever said Clinton and NAFTA...I will agree!

Unions did have a time and a place in industrial America. Do they have a time/place now? I don't know. It DOES frustrate me that it took an eminent bankruptcy filing for the Union to make some sort of concession to help THEIR company. But, yet, when they did make concessions it was basically to bend over the "oldtimers"....

Rick Wagoner IS to blame. He had his head buried so deep in the sand. Maybe if he was more truthful with himself about the state of GM the ship could have been righted back in the mid 2000's!!!

Finally, I'm sorry, kraut60...being a veteran does NOT give someone the right to lie on here (LSI, Lear, SSI, Milwaukee, Marines...what is next?) Or the right to come on here and drown his sorrows with bellyaching and this woe is me crap. We ALL are struggling (well maybe not TheJoker). Veteran or not, it is up to US as individuals to bring forth the changes we want or need in our lives! And, no I haven't been under fire in Iraq or Afghanistan. I have been under fire on the GazettExtra...does that count??! :)

unknown...I have stuck up for you on these boards....I now don't believe a word you are saying !! After going back and reading your posts your time lines do not make any sense to me ?? Just a few points..you said you were laid off from LSI in all of this mess..then I found were you said it was Lear in June of 08.You also said you were losing your house last year about this time ??(before "if" you were actived)I really don't think I need to spilt hairs on your post,but what I find just appaulling is your last posts on being actived back to Iraq with the military.I DO NOT take that lightly.. My husband is a Vietnam Vet and my son in law WILL be doing his second tour in Iraq very soon.I have never heard of any unit going to Iraq just for a few months.If you were wounted you would of been "fixed" and sent back.Again I don't take people lying about their military service lightly !!!!JMO

Some of us are family members of service men and women who have served and are serving over seas. We may not know what it feels like to be in a war zone but we know what if feels like to be left behind to worry and take care of things while they are gone, I for one have my husband in Iraq right now I feel I have the right to complain and say what I feel and I agree with momof5, I also am very proud of our men and women who proudly serve our country,
but I will not support a Japanese, Chinese, or any other foreign owned company.

Unknown; As a veteran of 20 years service in the USN, I can say I understand where you're coming from in feeling you were misinformed and under-appreciated. Civilian pukes that were never where we've been can post all the "thank you for your service..but dont complain..you have no right to complain" SAY WHAT? I'm with you...I've been in the hot spots and taken incoming fire...WE VETERANS HAVE EARNED OUR RIGHT TO COMPLAIN!...Momof5, ever been in a hostile fire situation? Been away from home for a year or better? Had the hope that returning to the US will be the salvation you dreamed of because where your serving is the arm-pit of the world? ...and Aruba, you are beneath contempt with your comment that unknowns attitude is the reason we arent winning in Afghanistan...as for the mans grammar skills...he can better them I'm sure...while I'd bet your ignorance is incurable. I stand with my brother and sister veterans proudly...we laid it on the line, for ALL Americans...even the ungratful and ignorant ones like yourself Aruba. I can find no more honorable title than Veteran. Unknown can bitch, moan and complain all he wants...he earned it!

Momof5--It's really nothing personal--I just completely disagree with your line of thought on a few of these issues, so I offer my own point of view. When you summed up the fall of GM "Rick Wagoner's excessive greed and ignorance", with absolutely no mention of the greed of the UAW or the apathy it creates and fosters in it's workforce, that made no sense to me. Sure, Wagoner approved the UAW contracts.....What was he supposed to do? Say no? Tell the UAW that "Hey, we have to overcome $6 billion in legacy costs before we even turn on the lights this year. Not to mention that you guys are making twice as much as people who work in other factories, so if possible can we try to cut some labor expense this year?" They would have shut down the line and been out the door with their picket signs so fast your head would have spinned!!!! The typical company, if someone doesn't like their job or their salary, they say goodbye and go look for another job. With the auto manufacturers that isn't the case.....The laborers hold the company hostage until they get what they want. Even if it ends up hurting the company they're supposed to be supporting to the tune of millions of dollars. But no, the UAW wan't responsible for the downfall, it was all Wagoner's fault...... Righhhhhtttt!!!!:)

I am also tired of the cry of being "unamerican" if one doesn't support GM or buy their products especially now that we have a vested interest in them. That's possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard. America was built on competition and innovation, with the government having a "hands off" approach to the free markets. In doing what they did, and directly involving themselves in the operations of GM, our government went against what made this country what it is. Rather than let the company fall and let the innovators and entrepreneurs sort through the mess it had become applying their vision and ambition to make something viable that can stand on it's own, we will have the same old status quo. Same management, same UAW, same crappy products. If anything, I would say, it is actually unamerican to support GM, not the other way around. Do yourself a favor and go out and buy a Honda, Toyota or BMW that was built in this country....That would be the right way to support America!!!!

GM workers have long been pampered with high wages, great benefits and good retirement packages. It's unfortunate that they lost their jobs, but it's not like we all didn't see this coming. GM passed on the EV1 in favor of the Hummer when the opposite decision could have kept the plant alive and the workers employed.

And then there's this - the entire package GM workers have received over their worklife is far beyond the average worker's income and benefits. Many Janesville and Rock County area workers have supported their families on sub-standard wages and benefits for years. When they lose their jobs does anyone stand up and yell "unfair"? Nope.

The GMers may be unemployed now, but they were well paid for a good long time. Time to stop complaining and move on.

unknown...If you're representative of the Marines, no wonder we can't win a war against a bunch of cave dwellers. As for your employment status, don't blame anyone but yourself. Just by reading your post would be enough to scare away any employer. You haven't even mastered sixth grade language skills.

Consider the boiling frog syndrome. A frog will not jump out of boiling water unless it is extremely hot. It cannot sense the subtle changes in water temperature. By the time it senses that the water is to hot it will probably be dead. Consider GM now, GM never sensed the changes that Toyota, Honda and Nissan were making when they started making more compact fuel efficient, and quality minded cars. The frog is dead now.

916: boy are you antagonistic! I think you like to poke and prod just to get a rise out of me. How sweet of you! Did I say it was ALL Wagoner's fault? There is PLENTY of blame to go around. But, the buck starts and ends at the top (Wagoner). He was told 4-5 years ago to slim down the brands GM offered. Did he? Heck no! He instead kicked one of GM's biggest investors (and member of the board) out of his office. He mismanaged that company so grossly it is a miracle they survived this long! You want to talk about Union greed? Ok. Who the heck do you think approved every Union contract? I will give you a hint: it has 7 letters, starts with a W and ends with an R.
.
As for the Trailblazer vs Infiniti.... I sure do hope s/he doesn't buy a Q45. Man alive! Talk about poor reviews and electrical problems up the ying yang. The Q56 isn't bad. While it looks nice, I would never put my kids in the backseat of an Acura MDX--one of the worst ratings in crash tests and super expensive to repair! My husband had a G35 coupe and we BOTH still miss that car! One thing American cars do not have is that throatiness. We have over 100k now on the GMC and inching our way to 160k on the Expedition (we drive a lot...it is all those trips to the grocery store being a "bigger woman" and all). NEITHER of them have EVER given us ANY substantial problems (a battery and an alternator).

Gotta go...midnight buffet time!

welfare recipients.LOL i love it that is so funny thats what they will be refered to at this time,"the welfare recipients" LOL

Good post 916WI. It's about time somebody mentioned the good old GREEDY union and stop blaming Wagoner. Oh and another great (ha ha) democratic president named Bill Clinton and NAFTA may have had a little to do with this mess also.

Let's face it. The majority of the people in this country will not buy a car again from a backrupt company or if they've had a bad history with purchasing vehicles with poor workmanship. Even worse, a company that is using tax payer dollars to support the Union and corporate welfare.

I think these attributes apply to GM and the fallout from this will affect these "Welfare Recipients" soon enough.

you can get a lemon no matter if it is an american made car or a foreign. I have owned Chevys my whole life, I have never had a bit of trouble with any of them. 3 malibus and 1 venture van. my brother owned a toyota that was a piece of crap. So in my opinion I will never buy a foreign car.

Momof5--Please!!!! Just because the government FORCED us into investing in a company that manufactures substandard products that fewer and fewer people want, don't play the "you're only hurting yourself if you don't buy their products" card. Seriously....Anyone who buys one of their cars at this point is taking it for the team twice!!!!:) GM experience last week--A good friend at work has a 3 year old Trailblazer--maintained at the dealer by the book, never abused--transmission goes out with 51K.....We always went back and forth about American autos vs. the imports--His next car will be an Infiniti:) As far as the comment regarding Wagoner's greed bringing down GM......I guess we just conveniently forget about the Union's role in this:) Hourly labor costs twice as much as the typical factory worker with the benefits to match. $6,000,000,000 in legacy expense every year before even one car comes off of the line......but yeah, just keep telling yourself it was all Wagoner's greed that brought down the company........

This buyout is just another example of GM workers getting even fatter while other laid off workers suffer. They rode the gravy train while they worked here and now will be able to ride off in the sunset with a nice severance package. The UAW should be ashamed of how unfair this is to their members who worked at Lear,etc.

Sorry, I am not shedding a tear for these "out of work" GM employees. You have it made compared to some others here in Janesville.

im so tired of hearing that statement,people are jealous. jealous of what?their pissed off! we got nothing and gm employees are getting sub pay and unemployment!the sub pay they get,they should get they paid for it.but they should not get unemployment,they have an income, and that would be their sub pay.no one else gets sub pay and unemployment. they are draining this state,i actually seen a former gm employee come into my place of employment and use a quest card,and for those of you who dont know what that is, its a food stamp card,now you tell me how he can get food stamps when he gets sub pay and unemployment?so you can take your jealousy statement and cram it.people that worked at gm are treated better and everyone knows it.now you have a nice day.

momof5: no your not getting slammed for this one. at least one person here agress with you. and i've felt that way for years. and yea, i worked there for 20 plus years: "Rick Wagoner's excessive greed and ignorance."
BINGO!

kiaspectra: Although your user name says it all, let us examine a few MYTHS in your post, shall we?

You wrote: "As far as I am concerned all the people who have lost their jobs is because of GM greed. I will never buy a GM car because if they cared about America they would not of screwed us in the first place. No car is worth the price of a house!"

1-GM's greed? Maybe. I will meet you halfway on that. However, Lear has played a part in that greed: atleast locally. Many "know" the union at Lear was stronger/more aggressive than the union at GM and other suppliers. Lear, over the course of 10 years, increased their payscale nearly 100%. Benefits at Lear were AMAZINGLY good and at a VERY low cost. Towards the end, it was "known" that it would cost GM LESS to build those seats in house (like they use to) than continue to have Lear build them.

2-Don't buy an American made car. That is your RIGHT to choose to waste YOUR money on a Kia Spectra. However, if and when GM/Chrysler completely dissolve, give yourself a pat on the back and don't you dare bitch about the billions owed to "you." WE are ALL part owners of GM and Chrysler now. Wishing ill of either of these companies is pure silliness. It is like saying "I hope this plane crashes"; while aboard the plane itself.

3-What the heck car in GM's line is the equivalent to a house in 2009? A Corvette Z06? Yeah. Like that's a real partical car. Even the MOST expensive SUVs made here in Janesville did not sticker out at the average cost of a residential home in Janesvegas. Move out of Rock County and the average home 45 minutes north is 150k (more than the Vette). Move to the west coast and the average home is 500k (more than 5 Vettes or 8 Denali XLs).

Just for my own knowledge: have YOU EVER been inside THIS GM plant? Did you go on the tour last November? Every June during the "Plant Manager Sale"? Probably not.

The Wall Street Journal had a 8 page spread out on June 2, 2009 re: the rise and fall of General Motors. I urge everyone to go online and read it or order a copy of it. It outlines the rise and fall perfectly, but I can sum it up in 6 words: Rick Wagoner's excessive greed and ignorance.

I really do not think GM people consider they are better than the people at Lear, CTI, or LSI. Those were GM jobs. The reason they got those jobs were because GM contracted to get these jobs at a lesser wage so they contracted them out. The reason those people got less wages was if the wage was the same as GM there would be no reason to do that. If they would not have been UAW they may have had less wages. The buyouts were just for GM to get rid of their seniority people so down the road they can hire at a lesser wage. So if they are not GM why would they be offered a buyout from them? I feel bad for all the people involved in this whether they are transferring, taking a buyout or taking a chance. It is very disruptive to families. It is not about the money. As more time goes on, it will be felt more and more. I wonder how United Way will be this year as I know alot was donated from UAW/GM.

GM received billions of taxpayer dollars for a bailout. I guess those who receive money from GM are now welfare recipients, aren't they?

unknown: OH BOY!! I'm gonna get slammed for this one, but here it goes: first of all, THANK YOU for fighting for my freedoms and serving in the US military. It is a tremendous sacrifice and duty and I thank you for being man enough to do that job: especially in the sandboxes of Iraq. To everything else you said: TOO DAMN BAD!!! Just because you served in the military does NOT give you the right to bellyache about things--it may give you the freedom to do so--but does not give you some sort of earned right. You KNEW upon enlistment the sacrifices you were about to make for the duration of your military career. You KNEW becoming wounded, dismembered or killed were all VERY real consequences of the job you were about to embark on. Again, I applaud you very loudly for embarking on a journey most of us would never and could never do. But, don't diminish your good deeds by getting on a soapbox and preaching that you "earned the right to bitch" because you were in Iraq and were wounded. It is called doing your job! My brother-in-law is about to leave for his second tour in Iraq. My best friend has nearly her entire family deploying to Afghanistan or Iraq in the next 3 months (2 sons, a daughter and husband). I have the UTMOST respect and gratitude for the men and women serving in the US military--stateside or abroad. I also know what it does to families. With the military, like life, one has to take the good with the bad. You HAVE the right to bellyache about "things" because you and others fought for that right. Being a veteran, however, does not give one the right to be a poor sport and drown in their own sorrows. If you won't help yourself, why should anyone else--veteran or not!?!??

why shoud the transfers get money to help for relocation, if they want to keep there job pick up the expense your self or better yet everyone will for you, just a waiste of money

unknown, another option why don't you contact the two hometown boy's now in government; Mike Sheridan and Paul Ryan and explain your displeasure to them. And frusion, I'm glad you gave the American autoworker another chance to prove they do build great vehicles.

frusion, I know exactly what you are talking about with the paint problems in the 80's. There once was the availablity to contact a few people at the plant; I believe Quality Network Assurance they were called. We talked to them a few times on problems we were having and they directed us to get the problem resolved. Did you ever do that? I know the american auto industry is far from perfect; along with many other industries. My main concern is that if we continue to go forth as we are.... what kind of environment are we leaving for our kid's and grandkid's? Everyone needs to held accountable, same goes for the vet that obviously has issues. Maybe one reason why I have never pushed my kid's to jump when the recruiters come to school. Maybe bad on my part, and NO DISRESPECT made to any vet. But the government gets away with alot under the rug too. I can only hope that the GM employees that are nearing reitirement can get, sad for some that those last few years have to spent away from families.

unknown...I'm confused ??? I thought you found a new job in Milwaukee and moved ??

shorty64, your comment "The rationale some of you have about never buying an AMERICAN built car, is just ignorance. Where will that get you?" I now own 4 GM vehicles in my family but I've also owned Toyotas. Why buy foreign? I am not rich and I when I bought a Toyota it was just after owning a 1986 Chev truck that the paint was falling off in sheets. It wasn't just my 1986 Chev truck but many vehicles in the mid to late 80s were doing the same thing. So, why would I rush out and buy another GM? I've now gone back to buying GM but I hope I answered your question as to why some buy foreign vehicles. It's hard to spend my hard earned money on a product that was cheapened up to the point the quality was sub-par.

I can't agree more, that MOST of the Gm employees think of themselves as the average HARD WORKING assembly people. There are a FEW that boast, but you get that anywhere you work. Many that like to bash the assembly people have NEVER toured the plant or ATTEMPTED to work that line for ten hours a day. Some jobs are easier than others, but the days of being able to read all the paperbacks you could are gone. Those people work hard, and are ALWAYS there for this community. Wait and see how the "giving" decreases now that they are leaving. Do you think it's easy for them to uproot familie's? I guess it's easy for some to say, if your job depends on it you will; but it's not. You're dealing with kid's of all ages, leaving loved one's behind, or even leaving your family until they can join you, or until you can retire. I will be so glad when the employees that have to go are gone, what the hell will you "have no clue" idiots have to talk about then. Look out Mercy employees- you are the top employer now; these idiots will start investigating you. The rationale some of you have about never buying an AMERICAN built car, is just ignorance. Where will that get you??? Answering "yes sir" to your new foreign dictator that will be running this place called the USA. Wake up and feel a little compassion for the people trying to make the best of a very difficult situation. As far as why don't SSI, Lear get these perks??? I beleive those jobs were negoitated out of the plant some time ago. They were taken from the GM employee so that some other community member could have a decent job. They didn't have to bring those jobs out. I know for a FACT that is the case with the Lear jobs. Yes, they are UAW members, YOUR UAW leaders were the one's to fight for any rights you needed, just as it is run in the plant. We need to concentrate on getting this country back in shape and quit the nit-picking. Good luck to everyone that is up-rooted by this all.

VERY WELL said aprilgal. Alot of people are just jealous.

I can't speak for all GM employees, but those I do know do not think they are any better than you-the person who chose to go into the service, or work for another company or go to school, or take a buyout that a COMPANY offered them, not the UAW. It is all about choice. We, the GM employees are the ones who made the choice to leave a hometown to provide for themselves and their family. We, the GM employees are the ones who have families split 8 to 16 hours away so they can provide and survive in this economy, with hopes that they can live together as a family soon again. They made the choice-do you see them complaining-they do what they have to and they do not look back, they look forward. Don't bash the GM employee for making a choice based on what is offered to them. Unknown, you chose to be a Marine-Thank you for serving our Country-now maybe you should change your attitude toward people, toward a government you chose to defend and do something productive.

Why not get angry, if you want to get angry at anyone, with the execs from the banks who are getting compensation even though they put our economy in the toilet? How about the HMOs, Insurance companies, and other medical related corporations that are making millions in profit while people are dying without healthcare? It's so much easier to attack each other, isn't it?

why not ler and ssi getting the buy outs, they were uaw??

Why are these people treated any differently than the other 100,000 people in this area who have lost there job???? They are no better than anyone else. We are all suffering in this recession, but yet the government bails them out, the workers are handed millions of dollars to get them off their backs, and the other companies who serviced GM parts and subsidary companies are all screwed. As far as I am concerned all the people who have lost their jobs is because of GM greed. I will never buy a GM car because if they cared about America they would not of screwed us in the first place. No car is worth the price of a house!

Good luck to all who took the buyout and to all who transferred!