R U Serious look at why I replied to an old story. I was replying to pubs who posted on the 13th of this month this year. which is just yesterday. I think you should also chastise the others. It wasn't me who brought up an old post and I really didn't need the history lesson that conviently left out what didn't benefit the poster. He was the reason for the reply.

anonomouse, Nowhere did I imply I could post and you couldn't. Did you really think I did? I only wondered why you did because of your "OMG more of this?!" comment seemed like you were tired of the subject, yet you jumped right in. I know a lot of people affected from GM workers, down to GM's support company employees. But they've long since moved on (every one of them that I know.) It's those whose problems were "trickled down" that I'm worried about now.
So, where your comment puzzled me, it wasn't asinine like Ezoner's comment after yours. He's commenting like GM "idiots" are protesting on street corners, rather than starting new lives like most have.
But right about now we should both be feeling a little bit silly posting on an 18 month old story. I know I am. Not sure why it was brought back to life.

I have every right to post as well as you do. And who said it isn't important to me. I'd like to see the economy recover. it's not going to if everyone is sitting home waiting for a $27 hour job. Heck I'd like to make that kind of dough but I realize MOST employers can't support that wage.

anonamouse-the difference is....it IS important to me. That's why I read those stories and comments. (Doesn't that make sense??)
Seeing people posting for whom it's even a bother to have it in print-that's just extremely puzzling. (You can't see that??)

Check the date on this story, folks.
Sigma says "Kinda sick of all the crying about GM. Move on!"
anonomouse says "OMG more of this !?! I"
If you don't don't want to hear about it or read it, why are you clicking on the "Click here to read viewer comments" button of a story written 1 1/2 years ago, or even clicking on the story in the first place?
_______
Same goes for you, if my reply bothered you you didn't need to click the story in the first place either.

Check the date on this story, folks.
Sigma says "Kinda sick of all the crying about GM. Move on!"
anonomouse says "OMG more of this !?! I"
If you don't don't want to hear about it or read it, why are you clicking on the "Click here to read viewer comments" button of a story written 1 1/2 years ago, or even clicking on the story in the first place?

I can't believe how rude and mean people are. This city if very uncaring. I know alot of GM people and they are alot more caring and nice than you people. I am proud to call them friends and family!!!!!!!!!!!

When will these arogant idiots from GM give it up. They need to face the fact that its over. None of them should have a job and they should have gone Bankrupt.

OMG more of this !?! I don't think anyone has ever said GM didn't help the war effort back in the day. Don't know why this is even being brought up. I can say those soldiers fought for our freedoms and one of the freedoms is my right to choose to spend my money how I want.

Now on to what really killed GM. Piss poor management blowing money. Unions demanding more money that GM could really pay employees especially since they were already mismanaging money to start with. Employees who would go on strick if they couldn't watch a ball game or other non safety or job related reasons.

Janesville did need GM workers money, but they didn't need the holier than thou attitude of some of the GM workers. Its the union mentality that infected the entire Janesville area such as the We are better than U attitude vs Beloit, the uppity Craig vs Parker (all towns with multiple teams have this to an extent but Janesville takes it to new levels) Many a tourist has been turned off by the "we hate outsiders" menatlity. Janesville is a pretty area but all the talk of an ice arena and childrens museum is wasted if the residents aren't willing to play nice with the tourist.

GM brought good to the area but it also brought it's share of bad. So anyone on their soapboxs can start telling BOTH sides of the story.
The GM workers weren't innocent victims and they had a hand in their own demise.

This is all I need to know about GM. You go ahead and buy your cars from companies that tried to kill our soldiers; I will buy from the one who protected them. GOD BLESS GM!!!!!
1942, Production Goes to War
General Motors converted all of its production to the Allied war effort and delivered more than $12 billion worth of goods, ranging from airplanes to tanks, marine diesel engines, trucks, machine guns, and shells. No other manufacturer delivered as much material to the Allied forces.
Additional Information: Here is a list of the WWII General Motors War Material Production 1940-45: (This is the best list I could assemble from the contemporary sources at war's end)

198,000 Diesel engines for tanks & landing craft
206,000 Airplane engines
13,000 Complete bombers and fighter planes
97,000 Aircraft propellors
301,000 Aircraft gyroscopes
38,000 Tanks, tank destroyers and armored vehicles
854,000 Trucks, including amhibious DUKWs
190,000 Cannons
1,900,000 Machine guns and submachine guns
3,142,000 Carbines
3,826,000 Electric motors
11,111,000 Fuses
360,000,000 Ball and roller bearings
119,562,000 Shells
39,181,000 Cartridge cases
540,619,000 Grand Total

To this day, the government has not forgotten GM's contribution. Maybe someday we will remember who truly did "sacrifice" for this country; and it darn sure wasn't any of the foreign name plates.

Think of it as an economical training session. Why should GM reopen? Because all of its ex-workers are actually having to work now? They need their old lazyboy assembly line back up and running? How many place closed up in the past 5 years not related to GM at all?? You dont see them crying rivers. Kinda sick of all the crying about GM. Move on!

omg i couldnt even finish all the comments,there were so many stupid ones,lol this town is dying and other businesses are suffering terrible,so if you dont think we need gm here,youre just plain stupid,and if your place of employment isnt taking a hit from this,dont worry it will,some people have not been affected yet by this,so they continue to run their fat mouths,i for one am tired of people sucking this state dry from unemployment,food stamps,and badger care,and dont start with they need to get jobs!heres a news flash,there isnt any!!!!!! hurry up and get that plant going!!!!!!

noggi - I ended up with a $15,500 car voucher (only cash value used on a new car purchase)and $12,127.00 cash after taxes. I don't think the 12 thousand at 1% will make me set for life.
But I was glad I got what I did, as it will help on my path to a new career.

someoneme & bobb1951 - sorry to hear about the layoffs, that is terrible for anyone to go through. Just wondering if you worked under a contract that had job protection language? If not, that is the difference between what you got and what we are offered. That is what people who do not understand what unionizing really means, empowering a group of workers to get better benefits is all about. If your contract was negotiated between you and the company, then you have no one else to blame for the lowball, scummy way they release you. That is the exact reason unions were formed. You are right Bobb1951, it IS a great way to start a new career. And many have done that. But without the contract language, we would have been given a hearty handshake and a boot out the door like you guys did.

Take the $50K. Invest at 1% in T- bond. Set for life.

Morgan corp. in town here. 35 getting laid off. Most only getting a day pay and a nice little handout from the job center about retirement, unemployment, and school funding. All the same no mater how many years there. We are getting hit due to the lending market going. Want to come have our fun?

pubsrus,
Fiat will eventually own 35% of Chrysler, and probably more in the future, if they ever pay back the money loaned by the Government. Since Italy was once an enemy in WW2, does that mean you won't buy a Chrysler?

Don't get excited, rockstars. This is just the internet. Calm down, easy, easy. No big need for name calling or insults, it reflects poorly on you whether you are aware of it or not. Perhaps they haven't had that in class yet in MBA school.

and if you don't believe me, check this out;
http://www.pbs.org/frontlineworld/storie...

by the way, 916wi, only 8% of our oil comes from Saudi Arabia and 4 % comes from Iraq. Most is produced here (41%) or is from South America. The Saudi's and the cartel just tend to control the prices. So we don't have to get bikes. Look this up and don't listen to what everyone thinks is true about our oil.

you are right , pub, most transplant companies here only use about 40% domestic parts compared to 70% for big three vehicles built here.

Hey fldpan, I could give a chit less about what anybody thinks as far as political correctness. This country has sold its soverignty; and we will all pay the price. One thing about getting older; the older you get the less you give a chit what anybody thinks about what you say or what you do.

hey 916wi you missed the whole point. I don't have to sell anything. All I said was "American Made" was from a company that is in the United States and did not try to harm any of our military. You are right the gas that came from the oil companies in the middle east is not "American Made'. I just get tired of hearing all the bull chit about Toyota, Honda, Mercedes, being American made just because they are in the U.S. They don't make chit here, they just assemble anyway.

I was arguing the contrary FortWayne...

That's too funny pubs! Using that reasoning you're going to have to sell your "American Made" car. Get a bicycle and start pedaling because the fuel you put into that thing is sourced from the middle east. I'm pretty sure were in a war in one of those countries right now. You better put a basket on that thing too so you can carry all of the electronics, clothing, tools, household items, etc... that are manufactured in eastern Europe and Asia to Goodwill to rid you home all of these evil products.......Let me know if you need any help:)

I wonder how many people think the U.S. taxpayer has never subsidized a foreign car maker???? If it weren't for the U.S. taxpayer rebuilding Japan after WWII, they would still be trying to figure out how to make cars. If it wasn't for the U.S. military protecting the Japanese, China would have busted the arse a long time ago. Same thing in North Korea; Kim Jong-il would have taken over South Korea (which includes Kia and Hyundai) if not for our military presence. So thanks to taxpayer dollars they can produce cars.

Ihavealife, that is not exactly true. How many received a severance package? And what was the severance package? Large majority did not.

Hey Zoom, see my post to 916wi

916WI
My definition of "American Made": If your country tried to shoot at, kill, or otherwise harm any of our military you are not and never will be American. So much Mitsubishi(planes at Pearl Harbor), Toyota (trucks for the Imperial Army), etc. etc.

This article does not bode well for GM coming back to Janesville. http://www.tennessean.com/article/200906... Looks like we are a longshot and I doubt Doyle can offer anything of value to GM to entice them to come back. We have no state money, no stamping plant and the oldest facility. We also do not have enough skilled workers. Too bad. At least the GM workers have a nice severance package, unlike Lear or LSI.

Considering GM hasn't made any profit on North American operations for years, how is buying an Australian made Pontiac G8, for instance, more 'American' than buying an American made Honda Accord?

The Edmunds article is an interesting read. I really do think the ratio of manufacturing jobs in our country attributed to foreign manufacturers when compared to the American manufactures will continue to increase. It seems like the younger generations are gravitating towards the foreign carmaker's products and I suspect that this trend will continue considering that this market is driven by them. I feel I am doing my part by buying a foreign car built in this country. I'm supporting American worker's and their families. As far as supporting the UAW produced autos--I feel I have zero responsibility in supporting a union structure that I disagree with and does nothing to benefit me.

Mr/Ms. Shopierhuh, just to let you know, assumption is the mother of all F ups. You may need a napkin to wipe that egg off your face.
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FYI, I'm NOT a "GMer" and I know I'm not the only one this has happened to. While I was in manufacturing management, I did not work for GM. I worked for Chrysler, moved out of the auto industry, and got downsized again. And I'm in school again to get an MBA.
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Get off your high horse and quit being a jerk for the sake of being a jerk.

Hey my Toyota made the list:
http://www.uaw.org/uawmade/auto/2009/ind...

Worth reading:
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying/art...

Orion just offered 44 million dollars for small car production (12 years no tax on equiptment)

916WI - these foreign companies are not using union labor to build their products. I come from a fourth-generation United Auto Workers family. My loyalty to the UAW runs deep. We'll have to agree to disagree. End of conversation.

Spark, I'll have to agree with you on that last statement you posted. GM's management has made some serious blunders over the years. The one I like to bring up is their dealings with Fiat a few years ago. I think Rick Wagoner spent 2 billion to get in and then decided he didn't want to go any farther and had to pay another 2 billion to get out. Brilliant!

Beenthere--Thanks for clarifying that. First off, whose profits aren't going overseas at this point. GM was expanding production in every country but the US. They even planned on building their new economy car in China before revising their plans because of the pressure applied by their new owners(the US government). All while the foreign companies are continuing increase their manufacturing presence in America at the same time providing more and more hard working middle class Americans with good paying jobs. So you would answer the question I asked with "Yes, it is more "pro-American" to buy a GM car which was assembled in Mexico, directly supporting thousands of Mexican laborers lifestyles versus buying a foreign branded car built in America with the money spent directly supporting middle class American auto workers." Sorry, but I disagree.......

Funny that GM writes off $88 Billion in debt, is granted another $100 Billion or so in tax dollars, demands $500 million cash up front from WI to build Volt here in J'ville? What's wrong with this picture? Political and Enron accounting fraud.

gmworker -

The education is strong with this one......

gmworker - You are highly mistaken if you think everything that has happened to GM is Bush's fault. I realize it's easy for those of you that are going through this to put the blame right there, but it's simply not true. It's simple business practices and smart marketing that killed GM and the very company many of you worked for, screwed you right before your eyes. It's really too bad, but really frustrating that so many workers don't understand how many poor decisions GM made. They made too many cars with brands that competed against one another, built too many cars where the demand wasn't needed, had roughly a $1600 per vehicle handicap because of health care and pensions and the list go's on.
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As far as gas prices rising, I said this in another post. I find it really ironic that GM's number one selling vehicle and number two of all in the U.S. in 2008 when gas was the worst, was their full size Silverado pickup. Number one was the Ford F150 pickup. Hmmmm. That is proof that it all wasn't the gas. I'm not a GM basher and of course I want them back, but I wish workers would understand how poorly GM was run and they need to take the blame for a vast majority of where they are at today. It's not you, (the workers) fault and I'm not saying it is. The company you worked for, messed up.

916WI...there's a difference between "American Made" and American made by a company whose profits go overseas.

The problem is that it is owned by a foreign country not american owned, that is why I will never by a foreign car.

Well if "American made" is the only criteria for having our UAW friends bless the purchase, I guess it actually would be acceptable to buy a Honda, Toyota or BMW. All of these companies have our fellow Americans producing products in this country. The last "foreign" car I purchased was built in South Carolina. Would someone explain to me which option would make me more "Pro-American"--Purchasing a GM branded auto which was assembled in Mexico or buying a foreign branded auto that was assembled by Americans in our country?

FortWayneGM- I love reading your posts! Keep them coming!

On the lighter side…Spring Hill makes business sense…Orion makes political sense…I’m not sure where that places Janesville. If Janesville is the chosen one, lets all celebrate with a movie night and have a Double Feature of “Roger and Me” and “Gung Ho!”

crafty---
How can you blame this economy on President Bush? Keeping in mind that 80% of America votes on “perceived politics” I guess it is understood. In politics 2 different ideologies are evident. Republicans (as they have for generations) believe in “Laissez-faire” economics, in other words; “Leave the markets alone.” Republicans are Free Market Capitalists, who believe in small Federal government intrusion in domestic affairs. They believe in the Post-Revolutionary Federalist approach; which is let the States decide. The one thing the Federal government does well (President s Bush and Reagan) is national security; protecting America from both foreign and domestic adversaries. Democrats on the other hand, believe in Keynesian economics; complete government involvement. This is understandable why Democrats blame Republican Politicians for a poor economic environment, and praise Democrat Politicians when the economy is doing well. Which model is correct? This question is solely answered by one’s ethical and moral ideology. For those who understand the modern American Capitalistic model they know the best thing government can do for an economy is provide an environment which is free of excessive government intervention. President Bush was not the fault of the American economy correcting itself. America’s economy works!

"We the people of the United States of America now have a combined 60% interest in General Motors.... If you really think clearly, you would realize that by not patronizing your own business you are hurting yourself."

OH! So now this is going to be the reason people should buy GM. OMFG! This is so over the top, I'm at a loss for words! I own two GMs, it's 34 years I have been buying them new. Those will be the last ones, that is for sure. Ford will be the next brand for me.

"Shopierehuh, may you never be unlucky enough to work in an industry where you're deemed insignificant and laid off."

****I been exactly that many times over the last 30 years. I took steps to stop it happening.****

You GMers think you are the only ones this has ever happened to, don't you?

"wow my bush comment got removed cant you republicans handle that this problem with auto industry is all his fault actually the whole bad economy is"
-Too bad Bush lost all his power in 2006 and the Liberals have been ruining things ever since then. What rock have you been under?

amishgirl94: I understand how you feel, but please remember that GM is not the only place that has laid off workers. There are thousands of us with zip to spend these days.

I am laid off from GM again! I will not be going out to eat, going on vacation, no shopping of any kind except for necessary basics. If everyone who is laid off from GM would do this maybe then others will see what kind of impact we have on the economy.

wow my bush comment got removed cant you republicans handle that this problem with auto industry is all his fault actually the whole bad economy is

The way I see it, is that the non GM people, people that have never worked at GM or don't have family or friends that worked at the plant really don't know what they are talking about so it is no use arguing with them. In my book they are just plain ignorant!

beeferer-You have some interesting comments.I don't agree with a single one, but interesting nonetheless.You do know that "We the people of the United States of America" were polled and the majority were in favor of not bailing out GM right? And i don't think buying a car from "a company based overseas" makes one "stupid" or "closed minded", not before, not now, and probably not in the future.

garyprimer: there was a time not to long ago when OSHA did not exsist yet. a time when safe work practices did not exsist yet. you got your job as a tradesman and went and did it no matter how dangerous. some of these LAZY skilled tradesmen also HAVE gone back to school. some are engineers, decorative welders(takes time in blacksmith training to do this right) counsilors of various degrees and many others. God rest those of us who have passed on the job. yea i know a few.

gm has been, is and always will be a company with questions that will NEVER go away because of the globalization of the economy. wait till china enters the auto market like they have entered the other markets. drugs will kill the mexican economy and the industry that has gone south in search of greener (cheaper) pasteurs will relocate to china. the only pasteurs left in mexico will be cocain and heroin. some people have asked me what i think they should do, stay at gm or book. i say, book it you have already began persuing another field that you are doing will in and like. don't look back at the time you had frought with endless rumors and the srtess of the next ching in the economy that can throw you for a loop.

Where was OSHA when all of this dangerous welding and ladder climbing was being conducted? There is absolutely no excuse for a company or a worker to engage in such dangerous activity. The liability implications are staggering. Pointy hats for everyone!

1,400 skilled trades workers? In Janesville? There were only about 300-400 here. Are they talking about all they skilled trades who took the buyout in all of GM?

All that GM seems to be able to do is spend money. Maybe they are trying to spend their way out of failure. I wonder where they got that idea from? Chapter 11 allows them to be worth a negative 90 billion dollars, yet offer cash to shed employees, while at the same time leaving their stockholders with absolutely nothing. The fact that GM is offering to pay to get rid of its workers would indicate that they are not considered assets to the company as so many have proclaimed. I didn't say it -- they are saying it with their checkbook.

If GM workers were smart they would take the bailout money from the tax payer and go back to school. Even when the new GM comes out of backrupcy they will be in liquidation (chapter 7 ) within 2 years.

Without government support the UAW would have been kicked out 6 Months ago. And this company might have had a chance.

Not anymore.

Shopierehuh, may you never be unlucky enough to work in an industry where you're deemed insignificant and laid off.
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A failure of the US domestic auto industry would put us into another Great Depression, further deepening the recession we're in now. Did you not learn history in school?

Thanks beeferer for a comment that makes sense. The idiots out there that hope for GM and Chrysler to fail and liquidate everything must be nuts. Wouldn't it be better for this country to help these companies succeed, so we can get most, if not all of our money back? Those container ships coming from China, South Korea and Japan ride a little higher in the water on their return trip because all of the profits these offshore companies make off of the United States consumer's, can simply be transferred by wire.

acejd93- Those "Lazy" skilled trade workers sacrificed four years of their life taking many, many classes at colleges to further their education to better themselves. They endure working conditions that many of us would never ever want to go through. I personally know of a millwright who HAD to lie on his back in a pit full of oil, grease and antifreeze while welding over his head. His partner stood by with a water hose spraying him down whenever he caught on fire. This millwright did this willingly to get the line running. This same millwright has carried 90 pound chain falls up a wobbly extension ladder. He also climbed down flooded manholes to replace pumps numerous times. He arrives home exhausted and still has the energy to raise a family of 5 and selflessly puts their concerns ahead of his own- day after day, week after week, year after year. Now why on earth would you call him (me) lazy???

There certainly are a lot of disgruntled citizens here. If you open your minds and take a good look at what has really happened, you wouldn't be posting a lot of nonsense thereby showing your ignorance. We the people of the United States of America now have a combined 60% interest in General Motors. If you and some friends went in on a bakery, would you buy donuts from a competitor? If you really think clearly, you would realize that by not patronizing your own business you are hurting yourself. Now then, if you buy cars from companies that are based overseas, you would be sending our American dollars (Their profits) out of the country. How stupid would that make you? I know closed minded people won't try to understand this, but, before you spout off, try to think rationally about this. Try real hard.

Nice, For those production workers who took the last buyout and sacrificed their bodies and personal lives for years get screwed again while the LAZY skilled trades keeps getting the rewards. What ever happened to solidarity and what we do for one follows for the others? They took the buyout based on the information given at the time of take it or transfer because it was the last buyout offer. But the UAW don't care anymore, they're now company owners

"if it all works we will have saved an essential domestic industry AND get our money back."

One would question whether an industry that cannot stand on it's own feet without taxpayer handouts is essential anymore.

Do you have a fantasy about GM becoming profitable and sending you a check because you "loaned" them some money? Or do you think that the government is going to (snicker, snort), pay you back for your generous donation?

I'm not at all clear as to what a "sacrifice comparison" is. Is this just something that you pulled out of a poorly lighted storage area.

janesvillean: Good comment!

Shopierehuh, you have to look at the numbers. By giving the buyouts GM reduces its future obligations and its current workforce, both of which will be necessary for a successful reorganization and bankruptcy. The taxpayers now have a stake in the recovery and if it all works we will have saved an essential domestic industry AND get our money back. And these workers did earn their retirement through a legal contract, so spare us the sacrifice comparisons.

I'm not sure what you are trying to say, gmworker. Perhaps now would be a good time for you to get out to Blackhawk Tech or some other good school for some remedial English courses.

those who would be eligible would be those who are presently on layoff who haven;t taken a buyout or retirement package and those who have taken a temp transfer to another plant. the remaining slots would probably be filled by transfers from other plants. yes, the suppliers would be needed and they would likely be inside the main building now. who they are and how many they will need, who knows. the retooling is said to be done by spring of 2011 at any one of the 3 plants. production people would be called back a little before to be retrained for what ever job they take.

you guys r idiots! janesville is on life support you better pray they reopen the plant and if you think its such a great place then apply to work there otherwise shutup! cause you have no clue what your talkin bout

It was mighty thoughtful of the taxpayers to give that company the billions of dollars in handouts so that these workers could get these nice deals.

As always, the OTHER middle class workers will buy their own post retirement insurance with their own money that they saved while working. Or they might do without.

I think I have just become a purchaser of non-GM vehicles. It's been a few decades, do the other brands operate the same way as GM vehicles, steering wheels, brakes, all of that?

If my job would give me cash and health care to leave I'd be running out the door and looking for a different job. I wouldn't want the car though I need something more reliable than what GM can offer.

Must be nice to get laid off, get cash, get a car and keep your benefits and pension. No, I am not a GM basher. This is a nice severance package. I wish Lear and LSI workers could get the same. Nice work UAW.

G.M in Janesville is the TITANTIC it has sank and is gone for good.

Lost city, who do you think you are? You are spreading lies and gossip. I don't know where you are getting your information, but I don't like it. Quit spreading rumors. You are not credible and should be ashamed of yourself.

From those I have talked with, Janesville is the GM's choice. The talk about asking 200 million dollars from the state to get the new car was a test to see who really wants the product.Janesville is far in the lead. Just wait and see.

I'm so sorry to all who have lost work. All I can say is that the US is going to go down if we don't work on keeping and even building our manufacturing jobs. Not everyone can work at Walmart, and if they do, they won't be able to spend the amounts needed to keep our economy afloat.

same here , after 15 years the manager told me "you better start looking...." I didn't even get a "(edited)you".

This certainly shows the glaring discrepenancy between GM factory work and other factory jobs.I received a hand shake and a "good luck" after being at my factory job for 15 years (hence my name)and getting laid off last august.