SarahB1: Thanks Sara. Just saw that after I had posted. Thanks for keeping me on my toes. It's amazing to me how much Gov. Doyle is like 'The Gov' in Blazing Saddles. HHhhhmmm. I wonder if Mel Brooks knows this yet?

While I am not in favor of the GM/Chrysler bailouts or any bailouts, I really have to take pause when I read the blogs and I have realized that many are fixating on the money but not at all looking at the entire picture. Auto industries are subsidized in most, if not all, of the industrialized countries, for good reason. The auto industry is the largest and most technologically advanced industry of any of the countries, including the USA. The large, connected, work force and their skilled people can be turned around on a dime and used for national defense manufacturing. It was in past history used by the USA in this capacity and it can be used again if we save our auto industry. Without this network, we are more vulnerable. Other countries know this and are willing to subsidize the industry to keep their network alive. I am more appalled at the gifts afforded AIG and TARP for which major chunks of the money went to foreign countries which have great wealth like Dubai, for bonuses for the employees of AIG and to financial institutions such as the powerful Goldman Sachs. I see the money given to the auto industry as the only money so far given to Americans to save American jobs, to secure our defense, if needed, and I see the restrictions on these automakers as discriminatory in light of the "no restriction, no reporting" TARP and AIG largess of our Congress which has resulted in "unwittingly" funnelling money which was to save our economy out of the country.

Most people don't know that the Governments duty in a market economy is to also make sure that the economy does not totally collapse. What is happening now is not beyond what the government can and should do, but is only a necessity because of the greedy bastards that make more money (profits and bogus bonuses) than they can even spend, off the backs of real working people.

unknown, I suppose it's within reason to ask that question, but consensus is that it would be very painful to the economy as a whole.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29762648/
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Basically, we already own 80% of AIG so in a practical sense it is nationalized. We would end up owning a significant share of GM and Chrysler under some plans. The simplified bankruptcy plan would wipe out shareholders, so the bailout money would not be going into owners pockets, but would be used to keep suppliers and employees paid so that production could continue. I don't think there's anyone who considers this desirable -- just better than the alternative.
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Nationalization (take control/ownership/equity stakes), reorganization (ruthlessly cut/sell deadwood), recapitalization (selling debt, bringing in private equity), and reprivatization (selling newly issued stock to the public) will ultimately return a share of the bailout to the taxpayers. If we do it right, we get most of the investment back, keep a major manufacturing industry, and potentially even improve its health and obtain some benefits for the future (like more plug-in hybrids for when gas hits $4 again).
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Again, it's better than the alternative. When the patient is in ICU you treat him, you don't ask whether he deserved to end up there.

The dead GM horse isn't going to run the track no matter how much nor how long you beat it. Dead is dead. The more Sheridan, Cullen and Doyle pontificate and pat themselves on the back for "all they're doing to save GM in Janesville," the more preposterous it becomes to assume they have the necessary leadership skills to accomplish anything. I'd be impressed if they'd channel their self-professed political clout and union savvy to bringing NEW businesses to Janesville. But that won't happen because those three do nothing egotists are too interested in chasing empty headlines for themselves.

916WI - well George had 8 years to undo anything Ol' Bill did, plus they were the fault for reduction of regulation in the banking and insurance industries and look where that got us. The Union as representative of the labor force will always be a useful part of this economy. If it went away, look at labor problems that were inherent before as the industrial revolution took place to return. Does that mean the Union doesn't need to reinvent itself? No. But if you think a boss will give you lots of money and benefits because he is a nice person, then you are delusional. If there was nothing to compare wages to, the market would go as low as it could get for those wages. Unions are but one tool that is used to make the market more fair for those who's sweat and blood make the products. Study your past, so you are not doomed to repeat it.

So i gave him a beer and sed just keep looking for a job sooner or later you will find one

So I still want to know what happen to all the GM'ers that sed GM will not shut down the plant here because the UNION will not let it happen,HMMMMM O I seen one of those workers that ran out to the bar on breaks the other day and he was not happy no job. could not understand why he was crying in his beer, then i rememberd GM is closed and the union could not get his job back.

future--GM didnt run this plant the union did so I dont know why you are complaining.

"Now people will see what Union workers put up with in the plant The Management trash says onething and turns around and does another.Why not this is the way the CEO runs his company.
This piece of garbage should of lost his job 8 years ago."

What??? I would like to respond to this - but it makes no sense.

ndburdick and others who've mentioned Flint in this discussion.

I wanted to point out that while it's true Flint has gone through a transition due to changes in the auto industry, we are a community on the rebound with many positive attributes, including excellent parks, museums and cultural activities. Our downtown also is experiencing an impressive revival with many new businesses, restaurants, apartment lofts and college-student housing being built and opened.

If you want to learn more about Flint, Mich., and the surrounding Genesee County area visit our Web site, www.visitflint.org, or become a member of our Facebook page "Discover Flint and Genesee County Michigan" or go to the events page at geneseefun.com.

Feel free to contact me if you have any questions or would like to learn more about our area.

Of course, you may say because I’m from the Flint visitors bureau I have to say these things. But really I don’t because I could have just not responded at all. I only say these things because they’re true.

If you are ever in Michigan, I encourage you to take a little extra time to discover Flint. I’m sure what you’ll find will surprise you.

Matt Bach
public relations manager
Flint Area Convention and Visitors Bureau
mbach@flint.travel

Whose money did the GM Retention Task Force spend / waste ?

Now people will see what Union workers put up with in the plant The Management trash says onething and turns around and does another.Why not this is the way the CEO runs his company.
This piece of garbage should of lost his job 8 years ago.

Chad Vader....Please don't be so naive. The current economic mess is not a result of "8 years of Georgie" both the democrats and republicans have to equally share the blame. The troubles within the housing sector began with policies set in place by the Clinton administration. As far as you statement on unions go, you hit the nail on the head--Unions WERE a major factor. The labor market has evolved to the point where they have become a drag on industry, not an asset to it. The current condition at GM is a perfect example of it. The comments linking AIG to Bush are also weak. Senator Christopher Dodd, who the last time I checked was a democrat, was all over the news this week for insuring that AIG bonuses get payed out through the stimulus package. I guess Bush made him put that in the package.....right??:)

Very astute observation, hooters! Too many Americans are so busy vilifying each other that they fail to recognize the common enemy we all share.

Don't you think it's interesting how they keep saying that AIG HAS to pay out the bonuses because it was by contract and that government has no right to step in and insist the contract be broken? What do you think they are doing with GM? As conditions of getting the bailout money, GM must "break" and "revisit" contracts (i.e. UAW national decides to let them break the contract). Local GM workers had no choice but to loose contract benefits in addition to losing their jobs.

The real fact is that Mike Sheridan is the only winner from GM and the great UAW workers!! He kept his job and salary as president of local 95 plus collected from the taxpayers. When the sounds of the plant closing hit the union leaders he bailed on all of you. Then since he couldn't collect two salaries he gave himself a raise in state pay. He first said he wasn't going to accept the 5.3% state legislative pay raise, then the state journal posted what they called the "leaders and non-leaders" on the pay increase and guess what list good old Mike was on, THE NON-LEADERS!!!! All those in his district especially those unemployed local 95 workers should be voting him to the curb. Watch though, those he screwed over will still vote him back into office like good little union sheep.

it's a done deal, just let the whole GM issue be done and over

ARGH! NO MORE! GM talk is so over.

redder: If people don't get the AIG thing then that is sad too! Turn on the tv. Try CNN or c-span. Open up a newspaper. With the current state of our economy, maybe you should educate yourself a little bit.
chad_vader: I'm glad someone else gets it!

How true moose! You have the GM / Union haters who (if they had paid attention in school) would realize how this economic market works. Instead they just want to blast what they really don't know about, and ignore the true evil in all this - AIG and 8 years of Georgie. Maybe if they studied the history of labor, and how unions were a major factor in workers rights they might understand. Is the system perfect? No. It needs some tweaking, but you don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Why is it sad moose, most people really dont get the AIG thing, GM well its been a part of all our lives for a long time, we get that. Plus I have neibors that are out of work it is sad

I SMELL A RAT

With the AIG fiasco going on right now, there are only 3 comments on it. Yet, put GM in a headline, and it is up to 54 comments. That is really sad.

Just wanted to chime in like everbody else. The Jaycees-like GM are gone. Elvis is dead. William Shatner will never play TJ Hooker again. Clint Eastwood will never be Dirty Harry again. And Erik Estrada will only sing 'Celebration' on reruns of CHiPs. Oh, and the boogie man just told me that GM is GONE. That was after he shot milk out of his nose while reading about the false optimism of Mr. Sheridan. EVEN the Boogie Man got a laugh out of that story.
Now, how about making the GM plant area Hollywood North. I mean think about it. This plant and the entire area it is built on would be great for back lots, sound stages, and so much more. Think of how much work would come to Janesville! Think of how the Wisconsin film industry would grow. Think of how much extra money would be funneled into the area with major motion picture or television productions coming right out of Janesville. The Wisconsin Film Industry figured that a little over $13 million came into Wisconsin from the Michael Mann movie 'Public Enemies' starring Johnny Depp. Things like logding, transportation, food, entertainment, and more.
Now, here is another bonus that could attract the film industry. In 2008, the State of Wisconsin's Department of Commerce enacted financial incentives to shoot major parts of Public Enemies in Wisconsin. Hmm. State of Wisconsin film friendly? Auto industry doing the circular dive in the toilet? Let me know what you think!

GM won't demolish the property. There is too much environmental clean up they would be responsible for.

I am looking forward to the Friday press conference with Tim Cullen and Gov. Doyle. They will waste everyone's time and will recite the obvious. GM has left the building.

Chad Vader, people that post on this board are not kicking people when they are down. Get a clue! They and myself are trying to add some reason and sanity to the conversation. I know this is hard for you to understand since your beloved UAW and GM workers can do no wrong and will accept no responsibility for what has happened. Unlike you, I play with a full deck and never deal from the bottom of the deck!

Clearly, you are the one who likes to go negative. And now that is truly scary!

these stories lend themselves to great sarcasm but little else in the way of real news.

People,the Janesville plant for all practical reasons was closed 6/2/08. That is when GM officially listed the Janesville plant closed.I even had a heated arguement with a resident of Janesville that day and couldn't disclose my sources. The Janesville resident was arguing that the plant was only going to be idled for a short amount of time.I see and hear things on a daily basis about GM that most people will never see or hear about.(I won't start about how GM is wasting money hand over fist YET.) GM has alot of structural changes that have to be done,and that will take time and resources they,in reality,don't have. Cuts have to start somewhere,this time it wasn't "the other plant", it was Janesville.In my opion,when a plant closes,it basiclly kills a community.(local shops,suppliers,schools,charities,you name it)I wish it was different,I wish there was a better option for a better outcome. Who knows,I maybe in the same situation tomarrow. Until something else comes along,good luck,god's speed,and god bless.

SarahB1 - Thanks. Usually your posts aren't like that, so I kind of knew. The people who enjoy kicking people when they are down are the real scary members of our society. And I am glad to say I will never truly understand them.

SarahB1 - I can understand your view, but fining GM right now will not help get the building ready for another tenant. And that is what is really needed. I say spend the money to make the place attractive to another business. People usually try and spend too much time and energy trying to extract revenge, when what is needed is to focus on moving forward.

There is a reason you take thejoker out of the deck if you play cards. It isn't worth anything, and unlike the other cards it is kind of an oddball. They usually just live alone in the box , or are tossed away as waste. Just an observation.

As long as the plant is closed, could the city maybe turn the three sets of traffic signals on Jackson Street across from the plant off. Do they really need to activate when someone leaves the tavern down there?

Joker......let's put the blame where it really belongs. It belongs to all taxpayers who allow our government to continue to make laws which directly affect our personal economy as well as the government economy. We were warned by Ross Perot about the giant sucking sound if NAFTA were to go through.....American's ears were deaf and their voices were silent. We sat by while our elected officials made laws to make it beneficial for our industry to go overseas. We sat by when the TARP went through. Just AIG alone is cause for riots in other countries. Americans blog instead. Now, big business is being manipulated again and forcing Americans to accept jobs for less and no benefits at all. My first job was in the early 60's. EVERY industrial company in the North provided pension and benefits. Actually, my spouse and I worked for different companies. We both had health insurance policies and there was no coordination of benefits. It was legal and it was common practice to collect the full amount from both insurance policies, even if it was the same company. Most major industry had unions......all prospered, there was truly a middle class. Since Reagan, the unions are being demonized, but the cost of the unions has directly profited the big wigs who now take that money as bonuses.....same money, different allocation. Our dollars now go offshore to foreign countries and our legislators as campaign donations....don't kid yourselves....the Toyota you purchase, even though assembled in the US, still brings most of the money to Japan and not to the rank and file worker but to the upper class there.

Macdaddy: that plant is also closed.

If those "laid off" from GM-Janesville are living off the hope that they are going to get called back SOON, that is their own fault. Not that of the Gazette's, GM, or the government. Be responsible for your own destiny and fate, folks!

Detroit, looks like you are drinking too much of the GM Kool-Aid! Or maybe too much of the green beer from last night?!

What strategic plan are you talking about? There is no plan and even if there is one, the plan does not involve GM coming back to Janesville. Quit spreading rumors and false information! Your post is not credible.

GM, UAW and the workers are all to blame for what happened. Sad but true. Janesville needs to move on.

It's highly unlikely that GM will demolish the plant. It's too expensive and IF they should ever need such a facility anytime in the future, it's cheaper for them to maintain one that they already own rather than building a new one. The city should definitely require them to keep it well maintained rather than letting it deteriorate. The last thing Janesville needs is to start looking like Detroit or Flint Michigan.

I'm not surprised Wagoner said this despite, as Cullen said, his head's of North American operations indicating otherwise. It wouldn't be the first time he's been forced to stick his foot in his mouth. He did it just last month when someone asked him about the Bhummer brand. The COO Fritz something or other answered the question while sitting down: even though Wagoner was at the podium and obviously wilting like a flower in a drought.

Well then, maybe we should give GM a deadline to clean up their plant or incrue penalties until it's done. Screw them over like they did to everyone else.

General Motors Janesville is closed-for now. The building will sit empty until the economy picks up. It will take time but General Motors has no plans to sell the current property. Don't bash Sheridan to much. I know for a fact the current strategic plan does include Janesville. When the doors do reopen please support the people of Janesville. Some of you may even get a job there!

The plant site is a toxic "dump" and will require millions to clean up; don't expect GM to start that chore anytime soon; with that thought in mind who would want to purchase it with that kind of upfront cost? The taxpayers can't afford to convert it into anything so why would any other business? We are truely being led by idiots, their inability to accept reality is proof.

Or they could use it to build automobiles in. Not until 2010 though. Or they could tear it down, then build a new plant on the site like they did in Fairfax. Or they could leave it standing, use it as a supplier park and build a new plant off the interstate. Or GM can keep having each UAW local bidding against its sister plants like they did with Arlington and Willow Run in the 1990's. Next up is Flint vs Pontiac. Flint has a new local agreement. Pontiac must now accept the same changes, but will probably one-up Flint by taking more concessions. Janesville by the way, still has better scorecard metics than either of those plants. Flint went to 4, 10 hour days. Janesville has been doing that for some time now. I'm sure Arlington will be tossed in the bidding game soon too. They can make the full size GMT900 SUVs in other existing truck plants that are not running at full capacity (ie Flint, Pontiac, Roanoke, Wentzville).

Or they could use it for a water park. The parking and infrastructure are already there.

How about putting the NEW ICE RINK there that they want to build...its big enough...

C'mon Janesville...you were played. The politicians had little choice but to be played, just ask Tommy Thompson about AMC and Chrysler over here - but the UAW would have been better served by straigh talkers like John Dohner (sp?), and more families would not be sitting by, waiting for another mega buy-out that is not coming.

GM'rs may as well start looking for jobs like the other 12 million unemployed!

they will build them in mexico

"I'm not ready to give up," Sheridan said. "Once this economy turns around, they're going to have to produce these vehicles somewhere."

Yes Mike they will and it WILL NOT be in JANESVILLE, WI.

End of Story.

FALSE HOPE sorry

HMMMMM NOW every one is saying GM is done, gone, out of here and yet a few months ago alot of people were telling us that GM was going to be open and jobs will be back, how the time's have changed. So GM is giving all the workers a $20,000 pluse a ticket to get a new car if they sighn off on the seinority list or what ever you want to call it,GO ON AND TAKE THE MONEY AND RUN,GO ON AND TAKE THE MONEY AND RUN.PLAIN AN SIMPLE GM IS GONE and sheriden and the rest of the group of hopefuls are just leading you on in fulse hope.

This is classic GM. Quick to talk to the press about confidential issues, but not to their own people. I can see they are humbled by their current financial position.

Sheridan, stop trying to con your members, the plant is dead period. I hope you enjoy your pay increase.

they are going to produce the vehicles once the economy picks back up, but they will produce them in Mexico. Thank you President Clinton and NAFTA.

This is important news. Don't blame the messenger (Gazette).

Now the Jaycees can have one heck of a haunted house this fall!

What part of "NO" ...?

"I'm kind of in a wait and see what that really means" - ??? It really means they are not retooling the plant, plain and simple. They have abandoned the building, and should now be required to clean up the toxic sludge in and around that site, so another company can be brought in - maybe we can make "Smart Cars" here! Next!

As much as i have supported GM in the past, it is time for Janesville to move on and think about how to replace the lost jobs and bring businesses in before it becomes a ghost town.

Elvis has NOT left the building...

I think Mr Sheridan is still waiting for the Beatles to reunite or Elvis to show up...

The local economy can't support false hope anymore, please somebody stop the madness. Even IF GM decided to retool, even IF the economy were to help GM in some miraculous way - the OEM suppliers in this region have already lost, and recovery would be next to impossible - THAT fact itself will determine GM coming back - in other words, it's OVER. If local government doesn't soon start to "retool" it's attitude and efforts towards alternative business - THEY will be the sole responsible party (NOT GM or the UAW) when Janesville realizes it's complete downfall.

Well Rooster, there has to be some AWESOME skateboarding areas in that plant.

the plant is dead. how about making it into a very big community recreation center. there is room for the yung ons and the senior citizens. there is room for all kinds of parking. there is room for game tables and rooms for playing cards. the project should only cost about ten million dollars or so. do a study ( $400,000) come up with a plan and pass it. for bicyclists, put an underground transportation complex in to make it safe to bike to and fro.the possibilities are endless as is the cost. it fits right in with the city plan. who wouldn't want to relocate their business here with that carrot hanging in front of their accountants.

The Gazette needs to get real and so does this so called committee--GM is dead, plant is closed--move on! Check the financials they are broke and have lost share. Let the people move forward and quit the false hope

Sheridan's last line is for votes only. He feels some will vote because they think he won't give up on GM, but he knows the truth. How is his "putting the hurt" on Woodmans going?

"I'm not ready to give up," Sheridan said. "Once this economy turns around, they're going to have to produce these vehicles somewhere."

Mr. Sheridan, you are assuming GM will turn aroung with the rest of the economy. That's a big assumption, considering they have been losing market share for at least a decade.

This task farce is giving laid off GM employees hope where there is none, delaying their inevitable transition to other work. The talk of GM ever returning here needs to stop. The only person this talk helps is Sheridan.

It is really terrible to hear these people on the task force being placed in the position of having to read tea leaves. Wagoner has no time to talk directly to these people and, in effect, to the workers and community? It's such attitude among the corporate elite that explains why AIG expects bail-out money and gives it over to its execs. Michael Moore lambasted this attitude of the GM execs years ago in _Roger and Me_ -- a good commentary on recent events.

Come on Janesville Gazette, quit creating hope for a story that does not exist! This story should of been laid to rest months ago. Have some journalistic integrity for once! And Mike Sheridan, you can wait and see all that you want. Hopefully you will be doing this once you are voted out of office very soon.

Good greif........the last two lines are killing me. IT'S GONE MOVE ON!!!