BY BY GM IS GONE.

chad, agreed. Before I put my 10 years in at GM I was financially ignorant then as well. Making more $$ at GM just enhanced my ignorance! It wasn't GM's fault or anyone else's but that person staring me back in the mirror.

yes, Kleej, living above ones means is not exclusive to GM workers. If you had ever seen that Repo show, it hits many types and incomes. While most people I know are doing ok, there are some people who had gotten divorces and need every cent to keep their heads above the water. Courts don't care if you are laid off or lost your job.

yea i know, thats why i said guardedly optimistic.already making plans if this doesn't come thru. no toys to worry about cause i don't have any. a one income family ya don't have that option. all i can do is try and hit the curve that life threw me.

wolfy, no disrespect on that last post. I have a ton of respect for people who made a choice to live within their means and not blame society when they can't afford their toys anymore.

momof5, It's great that wolfy is optimistic. Better than pesimistic. Just don't hold your breath.

as the international union reps said: "Janesville is at the top of the curve when it comes to an idled plant being re-opened. we have satisified all the major criteria." the only thing we don't have here is a stamping plant. there are plans out there for one in this area and that has been worked around before. at present i am guardedly optimistic. good work force, good quality of product, good thru put and a local contract management wanted and they won't need to send in arbitrators to get the rest. so yes, i would say i am optimistic.

DaWolfman: What is your PERSONAL opinion on a new product being awarded to Janesville?

yes i do and am presently in the plant. there are approximately 70 of us still in the plant decomissioning it. our status has been changed this past week from closed to idled. and yes, we are taking the equipment out and sending it to other plants that have a need for it. we are still being told june 25th is our last day.

mom- Yes there are a few guys still working at the plant. They are pulling chain and taking apart other things and shipping them off. They are done June 25th.

DaWolfman: You work at this plant? Huh. So much for the theory that it is closed and locked up and empty, hey!

My meory isn't what it once was, but I cannot remember people wearing $400 outfits and driving new cars to school.

I love it, chad and others, when people post on here to stop whining about your wages, severance, etc.., Find me ONE post where someone complains about it and/or says they are entitled because they work at GM. Just one...that's all I'm asking for.

Ire- you keep bitchin about people basically living above their means..?.. Heck thats most the population. Unless of course you paid cash for your home, your car etc.. I would say anyone who has a payment for anything-or a credit card is living above their means. It is also known that most folks are only like 2-4 paychecks from living on the streets.. I also doubt that you would have this same attitude or (Joker), if this was happening to you. Truth is- unless you have a nice nest egg buried somewhere-(not in a bank) it could happen to anyone.

ihavealife: sorry, was replying to someone else who was talking about laid off workers.......**looks around scratching my head** "I wish you GM folks get rid of your I am entitled to high wages and benefits mentality" i currently work at the plant to be laid off June 25. haven't seen anyone in this run of chat say a thing about that. i'm a one income family supporting 4. i own no toys other than my puter and my hobby is modeling. am i crying? nope......maybe ttyl should start reading the posts more closely.

ttyl1023 - could you show me where there are examples of "cry poor about severance packages or lost jobs" ????( I assume it was supposed to be poor me, but then again maybe it's some sort of low level slang). Otherwise you are just agreeing to a supposed "fact" you and others have magically made up.

TheJoker
May 29, 2009 at 8:53 a.m.
Suggest removal I wish you GM folks get rid of your I am entitled to high wages and benefits mentality. You cannot hide behind the UAW shield and say that this what was negotiated and then cry poor about severance packages or lost jobs.

___________________________________
Agreed.

there is no more voting on new contract in 2011 they voted it away in this last vote

dental and vision have been cut for retirees true. for those laid off, i believe its 25 months of health care before they are cut off. IE: some that were laid off last Jan are currently about to run out....... if GM DOES file chapter 11, the judge will look at all exsisting documents from all sides and decide what is valid and what is to be re nogetiated. that is why the UAW pushed this contract amendment thru. it was negotiated between the UAW, Management and the Government task force. so most points that have been negotiated inthe last 2 weeks should stay.
As for the retraining, it was felt that some of us may never see the inside of any plant again. so they sent us to the job center( or most of us) and had us fill out surveys and questioners. they then either helped us find jobs, or retrain for what we tested out to be best at in another field.

Thanks for the info.
It troubles me though that the people in the union now celebrate that they didn't take away all the benefits the retirees fought to get them.
There is a new contract vote in a couple years, which gives the union another chance to say, "we fought to keep 50% less benefits."
This is not just a UAW issue, this also happened at Alliant, when the younger workers forgot about the people who need those benefits.

irebout, my question is, go back to school for what? To land another job that lasts 3 years before it becomes outdated so they can take out more studen loans and get re-educated for another job that is outdated by the time they graduate from the program? I'm not playing devil's advocate here, I hope you understand that. What you're saying makes sense, it just made more sense before this information driven economy that's now upon us.

momof5, the dental and vision is only being cut for the retirees. Hourly/laid off employees still covered by insurance still have dental and vision.

From this story;

-- Retiree medical benefits will be cut with immediate effect at the insistence of the U.S. Treasury because of GM's "difficult financial situation."

The UAW is strong enough to demand the study of true health care reform, retirees nor anyone else is safe from from medical disasters, ask your, demand!, that union officers and legislators shout down the lobyists and debate true health care reform.

True health care reform offering a dual system option; free public or private pay private care, you choose, would leave no one behind without care and it would cost less than the $2 trillion dollars we spend annually for our current bloated system.

A government owned and operated, civilian VA style system funded by a national sales tax, distributing Medicare, Medicaid, and all government funded programs, including anyone, rich or poor, choosing to use the new public system for care, could distribute care at a fraction of the current costs, with better outcomes. All prescribed care and medications would be free, no insurance, no co pays, no precondition exceptions, free period for every individual in America that selects public care. Businesses selecting public care for their employees would not have to pay for or be involved in health care in any way. Private insurance and care providers would no longer be required to subsidize indigent and pre condition patients. Individuals happy with their private systems could continue paying for, either by self pay, company pay, or private insurance etc, and using the systems that they like. The Veterans Administration has been controlling the problems with access, cost, quality, and malpractice successfully for years.

(The Best Care Anywhere by Phillip Longman)

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/feature...

The Office of Management and Budget opinion on this plans economic impacts, compared with other suggested reforms, would be fascinating.

Wow sparked a little debate did i. Those who know me also sent me some nice emails to. Those I pissed off, read it again. If your still pissed off then you are one of the ones I'm talking about. First of all I was talking about those who had been in there under ten years (people who if they got in there after graduation are 29 or so plenty of time to go back to school) second of all like I said my heart goes out to those whose families lived within their means (didn't have two suburbans a $60,000 boat, a $300,000 house and blow $1100 bucks at the bar every week) If you think I'm jealous, your absolutely right, I am going back to school, I do have to take out loans for it. And looking at the job I'm going for I will make just as much as GM workers if not more, and have alot more job security. I had to go to school with snotty little brats who use to kick the crap out of me in Janesville school district, who were always the biggest a holes, yep GM workers kids. Walking around in $400 outfits and driving brand new cars. These are the ones I'm saying I don't have any tolerence of. If your getting pissed off your not reading what I'm saying. I'm not saying all of them are that way, and like I said, for those who were responsible, and hard working and lived within their means and had been there their entire life, I do feel horrible for you and your familes and hope that GM can reopen the doors in Janesville.

What happens if this same agreement isn't ratified by the other plants? Does this agreement mean as much if GM does indeed file for Chapter 11?

Aren't they doing away with dental and vision for the hourly workforce currently? I thought I read that somewhere....

to answer your question, the retirees have lost dental and vision. the way VEBA is set up, they COULD get it back in the future. and again, the benefits our retirees still retain, the government wanted to take away completely. so at least our union kept some of them for our retirees.

Again, what benefits have the retirees lost??
Since they still pay some union dues, shouldn't they be kept in the loop?
I know a few that have tried to contact heir Pres, and he is not answering his phone at this time. Sounds like he is pulling a Sheridan, and is going on vacation when his supporters need him!

chad, I'd never knock a formal education, but, in this new economy, the plethora of opportunity is in self-educating programs that people have wrinkled their noses up at for a long time..including me. Not anymore!

That's right darius. An education is a leg up for certain jobs. It is not always a guarantee to find a job that pays well. Is it a better way to improve chances? Yes. But nothing is set in stone for you after you graduate, you still need to have the will to succeed.

I've read lots of posts, joker, and don't see anyone crying. Give it up!

Kio, where's the bottom? I've got a big jar full of pennies that I've been thinking about using. Should I go all in at $.50/ share or wait for it to hit $.25?

darius~ I'd have to agree with you on that. A formal education "might" make you an ok living, but, self education will make you a fortune.

irebout, get a college education and prosper? What fantasy world are you living in?

Irebout: don't you have a college education but no job right now? Or do you not have a college education either? I suggest you zip it before you offend even more people you don't even know you are offending. The internet doesn't provide as much annonymity that it once offered. Go find where the oil is coming from on that engine and watch some more Morning Joe, would ya! And, God, I hope it isn't a GM engine you're trying to fix!!

I wish you GM folks get rid of your I am entitled to high wages and benefits mentality. You cannot hide behind the UAW shield and say that this what was negotiated and then cry poor about severance packages or lost jobs.

Take your money and run is correct. If our country's CEO can see to it you're penalized for having the fortitude to step out and make a living, he can surely do that to you now that he's the CEO of GM.

Good eye, kiowamohican.

You people need to take your money and get as far away from GM. The government will make a mess of the new company.
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Localboy I don't think the government can do any worse than the GM management and UAW did.

momof5 - The timeline for retooling depends on the way they will set it up. Having cleared out the plant, it helps in starting new. But they had talked of moving suppliers and kitters into the plant, so that may take more time. And if they decide on a stamping plant ...? I don't see Janesville at the top of the list to get that product, but certainly not out of the running.

irebout - it was $12,000 after taxes and a $15,500 voucher (not cash) to use on a new car purchase. If you didn't use the voucher, you didn't get the benefit.Just wanted to set the numbers straight. And most people are not complaining about the amounts, just that the actual amounts of buyout cash we get are widely misrepresented. Most are grateful as it helps us move on to other jobs, but most people liked their old jobs and would have rather still had them.

You people need to take your money and get as far away from GM. The government will make a mess of the new company.

It's good to see that the workers understand the gravity of the situation. Most of the people I know are retired from GM so I hope all this works.

Ire- Did you work at GM for 10-15-20-30 years and build for your future off that?? How dare you and others claim so much about how people lived above their means..Guess what? THEY COULD. You sound like a jealous little snot, and NO I am not a GM employee nor have even a family member from there. Education- heck that barely can get you 15.00 an hour past and present, so I am sure you do not have that either. Alot of GM employees did have college education etc... But it was in their best interest to work at GM, not in their "chosen feild"- that is one of the qualities that probably got them hired EDUCATION. But I believe they are entitled to something, especially their pensions. This area also directly benefited from GM`ers, so you need to quit your wining and threats. You sound like a clod.

I gotta say not a bad buyout package. I wish someone would give me 45,000 and a new car. What would I do with it? Oh I know how about live within my means, get a college education, and prosper. I swear to god if I hear one more GM worker who spent way more than they could afford bitch about things I'm going to pop them in the face. To those who lived within their means, and were responsible knowing that the end of GM Janesville was coming near (like anyone with a brain did) my heart goes out to you and your families.

I will make the rather bold, and total contrarian call, right now...GM common stock is a great buy at about $1.12 (today's closing price)!
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All the news reports (including this article) say new stock will be issued, and therefor all the current common shares will either be totally wiped out or given a very small (1-3% stake in the new issued GM common shares). That story is on every financial wire out there, and has been for days now. So it begs the obvious question: if that is really what will happen, why is the stock not a penny stock right now? No one in their right mind would be holding a stock they know will be totally wiped out next week when bankruptcy is filled, right?
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This has set up written all over it. This my friends, is how your wall street power players, and political hacks, make a fortune. Just watch, there is WAY more to this story, and you'll likely soon hear a story break how the current common stock will not be wiped out, and the thing will spike up a 100% or better from the current price. The very same game was played with Citi, when the government moved in and took over a massive equity stake in them. You will see all sorts of games played here, and while the story will be what is going to happen with GM...Production, the UAW, pay, the pensions, blah blah blah, many behind the scenes on wall street will cash in millions. Laughing to the bank, yet again.

actually no. true they have lost some health benefits this time, mainly because of the government but it is felt that the situation may be be well enough in a few years to preserve these said benefits. at least this time the union prevented the government from taking them all together. no one including me will forget our fore fathers either. everyone lost something this time, i'm just sorry it had to be the retirees also.

And what are the loss of benefits to the retired employees?
Or are you hoping to leave these poor people further behind?

i will also add, that i would think they need the suppliers and kitters as they did before. so i would think you would see a Lear or LSI back in the area. it would also mean that production line people would have to be hired a little ways before the start up. yes they are trained to do not one but a few different jobs.

in the contract amendmant we just voted on, a currently idled GM assembly plant will be chosen to fill the production slot. we have been told by international reps an announcement could come within the month. retooling could take up to 18 months (normal for any retooling of this size.) of coarse that depends on the size of the contracted work force brought in.

Chad, I hope you don't apply for a job doing comedy. You are terrible at it. When GM comes back, will Lear and LSI come back as well? Yes, we need jobs, not just union jobs or GM jobs. White collar and blue collar. But the days of high wages and great benefits are over for anyone who is hired back to GM. It was a good run while it lasted and it led to a good life for many families. But now wages and benefits will be more normal and realistic and that is the way it will have to be.

Chad: lmao!

PS-How long do you guesstimate retooling would take IF this plant was chosen?

Hopefully our city leaders can find more businesses to move here. Even if Janesville was chosen, and I said if, it would be awhile for retooling to be done. With the changes in sub, many would run out way before that happens. So we need JOBS here. As we have seen with the amount of people who signed up for BWW jobs, there seems to be no lack of people wanting to work.

Yeah, you missed the small bus today.

This is a pretty nice severance package for those still working for GM. Wish those who worked at Lear, LSI and other suppliers could get the same. I did not see the announcement of GM coming back to Janesville in this article. Did I miss something?

I think everyone would like to see GM continue automotive production in Janesville. I don't see reason for optimism, however I'll keep an open and hopeful thought that GM will see the value in the Janesville plant and it's workforce. Whatever might come I know the good people of Rock County will get through this difficult time and that those same people will be better and more self-reliant for having gone through their times of trial.

oh boy..........