kid,
You're right. I should have been more clear. There are no very negative long term physical or psychological side effects... in the short term, there are some awesome effects, though :-).

come on kai. be honest. you had to have some serious physical affect from all that chocolate you chowed the other nite:) lol

Hannah,
I think that your posts were very educational. You did nothing to help your side of the argument, though. What you have done, is shown -exactly- why college professors do not allow students to cite Wikipedia as a credible source on research papers. You gave us a testimonial from a supposedly 15 year old kid... I don't want to discredit any kids out there, sometimes they can surprise you with their intelligence. I do want to point out, though, that it was one specific instance, and I believe that it pertains only to that kid. I know where my ganj comes from (unless my source is out) and I know it's not laced with anything. In fact, I bet that if people were to take samples of marijuana around here, you would find it's almost never laced with other drugs. Don't believe me? How much does a gram of coke cost, compared to a gram of marijuana? It wouldn't make any sense to lace it... further more, I own a vaporizer ;-).
°
I'm not so sure you effectively countered any of my points at all. There are tests that have shown that marijuana has higher levels of some chemicals found in cigarettes, but those same tests also concluded that tobacco cigarettes contain WAY higher levels of the more harmful chemicals. Additionally, I already posted my source which states that marijuana was found not to be as harmful as tobacco. This is partly because there are chemicals in marijuana which actually do fight cancer.
°
"Q: Why is marijuana considered bad for you?

A: Because of the serious physical and psychological effects associated with its use, "
°
What serious physical effects? And the psychological effects? I've already said it before... I quit smoking weed for an extended period of my life just so I could do something else that I wanted to do. As my testimonial against someone else's, I will tell you there are NO WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS.
°
Now would be a good time to mention that I have been arrested three times for something marijuana related, and I've even been ordered to alcohol and other drug assessment counseling. Even my counselor clearly thought it was a joke. Marijuana is not a drug, at least not in the derogatory sense. So I put my word against those so called statements on wikipedia. I'm a real person, thekid can attest to that. Ask me all about it, I'll tell you the ins and outs.
°
Its true, marijuana effects different people in different ways. To take an extreme example and use that as a base, though, is misleading. The vast majority of people who use marijuana never experience any withdrawal symptoms any more abnormal than if you were to stop any daily activity that you do. This includes those people who go on social networking sites every day, or even those who blog on this site daily.

i know yer aware brewcrew...but copperguy is not alone....

http://www.leap.cc/cms/index.php

copperguy--

I commend you for stating your position so eloquently. I only wish more in the law-enforcement field would see things as you do. So, can you work on educating your superiors?? :)

thekai - You asked for it!! (11/04-5:14pm) And she obliged! Nothing but a bunch of mathering, blathering rantings. :)

Copperguy, perfectly stated.

More problems? If I had a dollar for every person I arrested or cited for posession of marijuana......

What problems are you talking about? We spend millions of dollars per year running people through the courts and some period of incarceration for posessing something that is no more harmful than alcohol or tobacco. I have seen ZERO reliable material saying that marijuana is worse than either of those two, yet marijuana is the one that costs taxpayers millions. As a cop, I would MUCH RATHER deal with people who are baked rather than people who are drunk! I've NEVER had a struggle with someone who was only baked. But I have undergone months of physical therapy for injury caused by a drunk.

Legalizing and taxing marijuana will free up thousands and thousands of jail cells that today house folks who simply posessed "personal amounts" of marijuana. In addition, the taxes generated by marijuana sales would go a LONG way toward paying for the health care reform our nation desparately needs. Further, having marijuana available at businesses will DRASTICALLY reduce the number of people who are arrested for trafficking it now in the black market, thus reducing the jail/prison populations even more.

Cops would have a lot more time to deal with crimes with victims, because we wouldn't be spending as much time on "victimless" posession of THC. Prosecutors would have more time to effectively prosecute those crimes with victims because they would have a much reduced workload of cases that they will simply plea down anyway. Courts could impose more substantial penalties on criminals who victimize others, because there would be more cells available.

So, exactly what problems do you foresee with legalized marijuana that we don't have today?

Yeah Kid, it really is hard to have an adult debate with Hannah. She doesn't seem to grasp things too easily.

So what if it is "bad for you"? I'm not saying it is, but that argument holds no water. Beer, liqour and gambling are all "bad for you" and all of those are legal and taxed.

Come on Hannah, you can do better than that. Do some research. Copy and paste a 38 page article full of garbage into 7 comments in a row again. That'll be helpful.

as kai pointed out earlier...its hard to discuss this with the uninformed

wow kid getting nasty about my spelling again. you tend to have some creative spelling as well or vocab anyway. geez peeps.Somebody said prove it is bad for you. There are a lot of sites that state it is bad for you. Kai seems to think there arent any.Yes there was some positive things in there but the long term affect ARE NOT GOOD. My opinion still stands to not legalize it for some reasons and legal for others like taxing it yes. i just still think youll have more problems you know like the booze you protest so regularly.

you got my vote for sherriff...or prez...whatever you want to run for sir. good post.

I suggest you read the material from your posts very carefully, and also read the "Related links" in them. I have only scanned some of them, yet I find that they do not produce any "gotcha moments." In fact, the materials provide information that is both damning and supportive of marijuana. There is certainly nothing that would lead to the conclusion that "SOMEONE IS LYING FOR SURE."

There are two sides to the issue, and each side has data to support their own position. The bottom line is that marijuana is no more a "drug" than is alcohol or tobacco. Each have their ill effects. Consenting adults are free in our country to do things that are harmful to themselves. No one goes to jail for being 300 pounds overweight. No one goes to jail for drinking a 12 pack of pop in a day. No one goes to jail for having unsafe sex with an STD-infected person. No one goes to jail for spending every waking moment in the sun, subjecting themselves to skin cancer.

Legalize marijuana, tax it, impose long sentences for those who provide it to those who provide it to kids, continue to prosecute those who operate a vehicle under it's influence, and use the tax money to provide national health insurance.

you didnt have to tell us that was from wiki. since most of the words were spelled correctly we know you didnt write it. is there a point to your copy/paste??

Hannah, you have got to be kidding me.

"Certain studies (whatever that means) have shown that marijuana smoke does not cause lung cancer nearly as fast as cigarettes because of some chemical that prevents something from doing something."

Wow, thanks for that rock solid information! Truly informative!

They talk about the medical mj too and how it can treat cancer etc. Well you also are taking this FOR A MEDICAL REASON. not just for fun. Chemo and radiation are medical treatments. you wouldnt go get them just for fun now would you!!

TeenGrowth Home


Q: Why is marijuana considered bad for you?


A: Because of the serious physical and psychological effects associated with its use, Despite the fact that it is widely available, and even “accepted” in some families and communities, marijuana remains a legally restricted harmful drug. It’s main ingredient is THC (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol), a mind-altering chemical. Marijuana produced today has a level of THC that is up to 25 times higher than the type sold in the 1960s. And depending on how it is “cut”, it can contain hundreds of other harmful chemicals, many of which are carcinogenic (cancer-causing).
Biologically, marijuana affects the brain, heart, lungs, sexual organs, and depresses the immune system. The effects on the brain include distortion of the senses, confused judgment, and decreased motor skills. Operating machinery and motor vehicles becomes dangerous. Effects on the heart include rapid heart rate and high blood pressure. Respiratory problems include pharyngitis, laryngitis, and bronchitis. Marijuana has been associated with lung, head, and neck cancers. It reduces the T-cells in the immune system that are needed to fight off infections. In pre-teens, marijuana use can retard physical growth and slow down development. High dose marijuana use can cause decreased fertility, breast enlargement in males, and breast milk production.

Usually marijuana in inhaled (smoking a “joint”) for it’s psychological effects. Within the first few minutes, it produces a sense of heightened well being and relaxation. Now that sounds good. But with continued use, the mental effects include short-term memory loss, shortened attention span, impaired learning, social withdrawal, and decreased motivation. Anxiety attacks, panic reactions, delirium, and hallucinations can occur. So pediatricians are very concerned about the harmful effects of marijuana and we do not support its use or legalization.


cnn or somebody did news story on the levels of tch in pot nowadays.

okay this is just to long
here's the link
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_bad_is_mar...

part3
I truly don't believe marijuana is bad for you. It's a tool, if one knows how to use it. It can be very beneficial, but if one doesn't, it can ruin your life. I have had amazing experiences that have made me a more peaceful, loving, open-minded person who enjoys life. It is not worse then cigarettes. It is just useful if used in a good, relaxing, mind escaping, and mind expanding way.

I really think that marijuana is NOT that bad for you. In fact, marijuana has never been proven to have killed anyone on its own. Compare that to alcohol and it makes you wonder how one thing so dangerous can be legal and another that has proven to be a lot less dangerous to your life.

Marijuana is better for you than lighting up a cigarette. Cigarettes have things like tar and other unnatural things that will turn your lungs black and give you cancer, while marijuana doesn't. The difference is a) marijuana affects you more, b) cigarettes are legal, and c) there are no deaths recorded that have come from Marijuana alone.

Marijuana is a depressant, like alcohol, but with different effects. People high on marijuana supposedly want peace and harmony. Reportedly marijuana DECREASES violent thoughts and activities. Harmful effects are the same as smoking cigarettes.

A lot of people think smoking marijuana is better than cigarettes, but one joint has the same amount of harmful affects (tar buildup in lungs etc.) as five cigarettes. Marijuana has other bad affects like irritability, stress, and "munchies" that cigarettes don't always have. But marijuana is less harmful than other drugs that you can overdose and die from.

Marijuana may lead to other harder drugs.

I'm a 16 year old male and I am constantly surrounded by drugs. I've been smoking marijuana the last 4 years on a daily basis. But, honestly, I think I've been poisoned because, no matter what, I can never seem to have the courage to quit marijuana. I think the marijuana I smoke is laced with crack or some chemical because I always get the worst chemical taste in my mouth. I wish I would have never tried it. Marijuana has left me with psychological damage. Take my advice ... don't smoke marijuana.

I'm a 15 year old that used to smoke marijuana with my friends a lot. But, I have been off it for the last 3-4 months. Reasoning is, YES, it is bad for you. Any smoke you inhale, whether its from your backyard barbecue or a gram of marijuana, will harm your body.

part 2
Let's be real here and take a look at what Medical Cannabis patients are doing, especially in California where there seems to be more data available to us on the benefits and dangers of cannabis usage. In other words, if you are authorized to use cannabis medically, use a vaporizer, cook with it, make oils or tinctures - never smoke cannabis, and don't use cigarettes. Be responsible and look and review thoughtfully all sides of the issue, including a recent 2004 study on the use and safety of vaporizers:http://www.canorml.org/healthfacts/vaporizerstudy2.html

Certain studies (whatever that means) have shown that marijuana smoke does not cause lung caner nearly as fast as cigarettes because of some chemical that prevents something from doing something. We can't rely on any studies now because there is so much propaganda floating around, but there's one big point that makes all cancer arguments null and void. There are 2 ways to use marijuana that eliminate the smoke part. You can cook it in butter and ingest it for much stronger effects with none of the bad side effects of cancer. You can also vaporize it which doesn't burn any plant matter and only turns the THC to vapor form which also prevents the breathing of smoke.

Medicinal marijuana has been found to have certain benefits. It can alleviate vascular pressure associated with glaucoma and lessen the effects of stress. It has a peristalsis (sp?) effect on the digestive tract, meaning that it encourages movements of food through the digestive system. It is used in some spiritual and ritual practices because of the trance-like effects it can produce. There are probably other benefits not listed here. The issue is that medicinal, good quality, marijuana is very difficult to come by. Most street marijuana has been laced with other chemicals, like rat poison and other insecticides. These increase the feeling of intoxication. Obviously, if a chemical would kill another form of life, it would not be good for you. You need to suspect any street drug of containing harmful chemicals. Smoking, by itself, is a very efficient way to introduce any substance into your bloodstream. Smoking anything, whether it is crack cocaine, marijuana, cigarettes, or oak leaves, kills the source of our life, oxygen. You'd have to add the perils of smoking on top of any inherent detriment the original substance contains to accurately determine the level of risk. Another factor to consider is that marijuana is currently illegal. During prohibition, alcohol was consumed. But there was a lot more stress and risk involved in having a drink 80 years ago than having one today. If you smoke a joint and end up incarcerated, how good would that be for you? Sometimes, you need to be practical.

okay I googled "is mj bad for you" SOMEBODY IS LYING FOR SURE. top page wiki...
This says it is


part 1
Research on the long-term effects of marijuana abuse indicates some changes in the brain similar to those seen after long-term abuse of other major drugs. For example, cannabinoid withdrawal in chronically exposed animals leads to an increase in the activation of the stress-response system and changes in the activity of nerve cells containing dopamine. Dopamine neurons are involved in the regulation of motivation and reward, and are directly or indirectly affected by all drugs of abuse.
Long-term marijuana abuse can lead to addiction; that is, compulsive drug seeking and abuse despite its known harmful effects upon social functioning in the context of family, school, work, and recreational activities. Long-term marijuana abusers trying to quit report irritability, sleeplessness, decreased appetite, anxiety, and drug craving, all of which make it difficult to quit. These withdrawal symptoms begin within about 1 day following abstinence, peak at 2-3 days, and subside within 1 or 2 weeks following drug cessation.

A number of studies have shown an association between chronic marijuana use and increased rates of anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation, and schizophrenia.

One study found that an abuser's risk of heart attack more than quadruples in the first hour after smoking marijuana, probably because it increases both blood pressure and heart rate and reduces oxygen-carrying capacity of blood.

With marijuana as with other drugs, proponents of its use site other studies and have contradictory opinions. Contributors weigh in with the following:

The definitive study of the long-term health effects of marijuana to date was done by Kaiser Permanente. They surveyed the health records of 65,000 patients over a long period of time. They found no significant differences in the health records of pot smokers versus people who did not smoke pot. See http://www.druglibrary.org/crl/aging/sid...
CONCLUSIONS: Marijuana use in a prepaid health care-based study cohort had little effect on non-AIDS mortality in men and on total mortality in women

This is consistent with the results of the health studies of every major government commission report on the drug laws from around the world since 1894. These reports can be found at http://druglibrary.org/schaffer under Major Studies of Drugs and Drug Policy.

etown: When mj is legalized, the scientific community will establish the levels at which one can be presumed to be impaired. Perhaps the standard will be based on the base THC rather than metabolites (d-9 THC). I'm no scientist, but they developed PAC levels, and I have no doubt they could arrive at scientific conclusions for mj as well.

The important thing to keep in mind for both ETOH and THC is that the officer must FIRST establish probable cause for OWI before s/he ever gets to a chemical test. If a chronic alcoholic (for example) truly appears sober at a .25, there should be no chemical test. In reality, the SFSTs were arrived at by the scientific community because they specifically test one's ability to perform divided attention tasks. It is the results of those SFSTs that give the officer probable cause to investigate for PAC or Controlled Substance. A preliminary breath test is used as only ONE in a series of tests to check impairment. The PBT is the LAST field test and is only administered if the subject fails the other three tests. The PBT enables the officer to decide if the impairment is from ETOH or from drugs, which will determine if the chemical test will be of breath or blood.

916: Thanks. I try to help clear up misconceptions folks have, and occasionally get into more opinion-based discussions. We all learn from intelligent debate.

right on again juststoppingby.

916 no i dont think they should be arrested. i think the field sobriety should be the test. even when funtioning alcoholics get to a point they lose control, if they keep it under that point they probably wont be pulled over anyways. and some people shouldnt be on the road after 2 beers and a .02 bac. in case you havent noticed, im one who believes everything basically comes down to the individual. if you can blow .1 and pass a field sobriety test...maybe you should go free. if i smoke a joint an can drive like i never touched it, maybe i should go free. like i said...if you have to run a chemical test to judge ones impairment...how impaired are they...

i do think the penalties for driving while high/drunk should be stiffer...to many people think they arent impaired when in fact they are far beyond...

No problem 916. Let me just say it again though - I am definitely NOT the Joker! I also have gotten "into it" with him and I'm glad he hasn't been around lately.

Seriously, the only reason I described myself and my lifestyle was to show that I am not your stereotypical "smoker". There are a lot of people exactly like me (and a lot who make a lot more money and have a lot better lives than I do!) who also smoke.

This section of the population who would buy MJ hand over fist if it were legal. Just think of the taxes.

I understand that this article is about drunken driving. But the legalization of our good friend Miss Jane would almost certainly reduce the amount of drunken drivers on the road.

Now I know there are some of you that still believe the propaganda of the 1950's and 1960's where they told you about Reefer Madness, but things are going to change and are even changing now. As you people who think that everyone should just be thrown in jail for every mistake they make get older and move into your new residence the Nursing home you can still feel free to blog about the harms of Pot. The real truth is many people smoke, even your public leaders, and it can be a tool to fix underlying medical issues. Legalization would also reduce the war on drugs to the drugs that need to be dealt with like the rampant abuse of prescription medicine.

As more people feel comfortable talking about how they really feel about pot it will gain more and more acceptance. The real question is who do you want running the Bud trade? The criminals who are running it now? or the Government so it can be regulated and taxed.

Juststoppingby......Sorry I was so condescending in my last post......I honestly thought you were the Joker too--or at the very least had that Joker mentality. He and I have gotten into it in the past......I didn't see your last post before I sent mine--and that cleared it up.
We just see this issue from two different perspectives--just have to agree to disagree, I guess.......

Juststoppingby.....Obviously reading comprehension is one thing that you didn't excel at while at UW-W......I prefaced my comment with "MY EXPERIENCE"......not generalizing, just stating my opinion based on MY EXPERIENCE. Nowhere did I state that all potheads are losers. I realize that you like yourself a lot:) I'm thrilled that you make over 50K, work out 3 to 4 times a week, have a career in finance, eat healthy food, and volunteer on the weekends--but you also have to accept the fact that there are many people who got too caught up in using this drug, and they failed because of it. Some good friends of mine fell into this latter category. Would they have been "losers" never having been exposed to it, I really don't know--but there is no doubt it negatively affected their lives.

Kid--I never considered drinking and driving a "sport". I do think that people are way too fixated on it, while completely turning a blind eye to other issues we have on our roadways. Perfect example.....your comment--"how do you tell if i was smoking 10 minutes ago or 10 days ago. but that makes me think if its that hard to tell if someone is impaired...how impaired are they really??" You could apply this same question to functioning alcoholics. They could be driving down the road well above a .08, and, if pulled over, pass every field sobriety test thrown at them. If that's the case, do you think they should be arrested for DUI?

Copperguy.....A quick "thanks" for being so patient, rational and informative in your posts. While I don't always agree with your opinion, I respect it because of how well it's presented. I meant to thank you for the PM you sent clearing up some info in one of the other DUI threads, but I spaced on it--so thanks!

Ha, justaguy - The JOKER? Man, that really hurts because that guy drives me nuts. Ha.

The only point I was trying to make was that there is a market out there waiting to be taxed should it become legal.

*Now going into corner to try and forget that I was compared to the Joker*

Dear citizens of the great City of Janesville.
*
For safety sake, please discard all impaired operators of heavy equipment in public places into the river.
*
Auction off their vehicles, (whatever is left after the crash), and give the proceeds to the city for plowing snow this winter.
*
Thank you for your support.

Hannah, can you please expand on your following comment?

"are you sure you dont get into coke etc? Maybe it is just a relative huh?"

if you are asking if I do coke, the answer is I have not, do not, and there is no way I ever will do coke. I've seen what a REAL drug does to someone. I've seen it destroy my own family first hand. There is such a huge world of difference between cocaine and marijuana... I speak from two points, when I talk about legalizing marijuana. I would never advocate the legalization of something as potentially harmful or more harmful than cocaine.

copperguy, that was my point if they were to legalize smoking pot how would they determine when exactly someone smoked it. it s not like alcohol and only reads for a short period of time.i know people that you d swear were stoned all the time , but never touched the stuff. lol .

got ya. gracias.

To clarify that last post: I am not advocating defense when driving under the influence of marijuana. I'm specifically talking only about having residual DETECTABLE amounts of d-9 THC in ones blood.

thekid: It's more complicated than that.

OWI is an offense of driving ability.

Prohibited Alcohol Concentration or, alternatively, Detectable Amount of Controlled Substance are separate offenses. One can be convicted of OWI without the companion charge, and vice versa.

Again, an officer must have probable cause to suspect PAC or Detectable Amount of Controlled Substance before ordering a test.

So, for example, if you are in a crash and there is no reason to suspect that you were OWI, then there is not justification to order a test. If a test is ordered absent evidence of a violation, the case could be effectively challenged for lack of PC.

Example: You are driving on an interstate highway. Tire comes off truck and bounces into your vehicle. There clearly is no reason for an officer to suspect you of violating any law or being OWI, so there is no PC for a blood test. Different story if you are driving, cross the center, and strike another vehicle. In this case, there IS reason to suspect you of OWI even if you are unconscious and unable to undergo SFSTs. Some courts have upheld a test of an unconscious person in questionable circumstances.

He's not bragging, he's just trying to drive home the point to someone who is being ignorant and unwilling to accept the truth. If people would drop their stereotypes and accept that some pot smokers (like a really good friend of mine who makes six figures a year) are also successful people, then he'd probably stop bringing up that he makes money AND smokes pot. Oh, and I'm sure he also wants you to know that he's not a rapper, or a drug dealer.

thekid: i'm happy you found a new friend, but I still stand by my post, and you hurt my feeling calling me ignorant .... NOT. If he says one more time he doesn't mean to brag and then brags i'll know it's the joker ;-)

Yes, Hannah, and until those laws were changed, black students sat in whites only restaurants and sat at the front of the bus illegally. They were criminals at that time, no matter what happened afterward. Just because the law made them technically criminal, though, does not mean that they were bad people. The same logic applies here. Just because there is a law against smoking pot, and I smoke pot, that doesn't make me a bad person. The law simply needs to be changed, in this instance.
I want to re-iterate that I'm not operating off of the theory of that which is illegal should be made legal, across the board, to make this country have less criminals in a round about way. I'm speaking specifically of marijuana in this instance, so to compare it to (a common example from the past) robbing a bank, is just inaccurate.
°
I would like to invite you, Hannah, to pull up those studies that show that pot is bad for you. I hope you can find some new angle I haven't heard yet. I love disproving people on this. Who do you think cares about the effects of pot more, Hannah? People who use it, or people who are deathly afraid of it? I've researched this topic a LOT. Thekid has also researched this topic a lot. I probably know all of the ins and outs. I know the common arguments, I know the less common arguments. With a short review, I can almost list the history of the war on pot all the way back from just before it started, to present day (including some of the more major court cases.) Truth is, I'm dying for someone to bring a new argument to the table. Every single argument against marijuana gets shot down, time after time, but there will always remain an ignorant few who just can't seem to come to grips with the reality of the situation: marijuana should be legal.

justaguy thats ignorant. juststoppingby was just pointing out that not all potheads are losers. just like not all drinkers are losers. when its legal and society doesnt crumble you will see...

right on juststoppingby. as ive said b4, people like you, myself, and kai are the rule for pot smokers. we are not the exception to the rule. most people who smoke, SAME AS MOST PEOPLE WHO DRINK, do so responsibly. the irresponsible ones arent justification to prosecute those who are responsible. alcohol prohibition proved that.

copperguy: appreciate the post, i was pretty sure of how it worked but you solidified it. so if im in an accident i can get an owi at any time regardless of whether im high or not...since pot has been in my system for about 12 years and will continue to be until the end of my time. if i could come up with a way to determine INSTANT intoxification i would a)be a millionaire and 2)free the plant!!

juststoppingby: You sound like the joker? yes I could care less about your finances, doesn't matter if you are rich or poor a pot head is a pot head and being able to buy pot or steal from other to buy it it is still illegal.

What good comes from pot? What good comes from gambling? What good comes from cigarettes? What good comes from beer?

Yes, there are people out there who have no self control and let any of these things ruin their lives. It's not the item itself (beer, pot, gambling) it's the PERSON who lets their life go down the toilet by not being able to control themself.

However, there are PLENTY of people, myself included, who can afford to buy a few bags a month.

Again, I don't mean to brag about my finances. I only mention it because it's people like me (who can afford it) that would benefit the economy the most if it were legal.

Tax it. Regulate it. I'll continue to buy it.

And that doesn't even count that "accidents" causing damage or death to other people. I do like what copperguy posted at 2:10. Kind of thought provoking.

swisschick: ditto on that and i know others who have done the same due to pot, lost everything ... I'd love to hear one good thing that come out of drinking or smoking pot. I just bought myself a nice new car last year while my coworker spends his money on a 12 pack of beer every night after work and then smokes a joint. I'm willing to bet he spends the same amount on his fixes each month as i do on my car payment and he wonders why he's still driving a beater around.

I'm gonna kick back with a beer on the couch.....Some of these posts are driving me crazy.
.
I actually don't give a rat's butt if people are having a doobie on their couch. I know of many, many people who don't have a pot to ---- in or a window to throw it out because they have drank their money (and life) away, lost their spouse, alienated their families, etc., due to their drinking.
.
My 2 cents.

thekid and etown: Let me try to address that issue.

Under WI law, it is unlawful to operate a motor vehicle with ANY AMOUNT of THC or it's metabolites in your blood. I'm not saying that's right, but it is the law. The most reliable information I've seen shows that delta-9 THC can show up in your blood for up to 30 days, depending on a multiple of factors.

In a typical OWI case, the officer must establish probable cause before requesting a chemical test (breath, blood, or urine). This means that the suspect must show quantifiable evidence of impairment before a test is ever in order. Even with a blood test, the first test is for ETOH. If that come backs at a prohibited level, the Laboratory of Hygiene does not test for drugs. If it does not show a PAC, then drugs are tested (if requested by the officer).

This gets a bit murky in the case of a motor vehicle crash where the "suspect" is rendered unconscious. Still, the officer must establish PC before ordering a blood draw.

Does that help at all?

Ok, justaguy, I read your later comment where you said you made a mistake. I guess I should have read a little further before posting that. My mistake.

LOL juststoppingby, if Hannah reads like she writes, then I doubt she understands ANYTHING thats posted ANYWHERE!

"the law is wrong." sorry no it isnt a misprint. You may not agree with the law but that doesnt make it wrong. So what other laws DONT you obey cause theyre "wrong"

Good thing those child molesters who think the law is "WRONG" get tossed in prison huh?
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You mean like the guy that runs the ice cream shop went to prison? In case you havent noticed child molestors are not punished very severely in alot of cases.

JUSTAGUY, this is your comment "Now i understand in your comment on the other story about having a drug house near your house before a child molestor."
-----------
Guess you arent real bright are you? I NEVER made that comment, can you not read the name of the poster that did? Obviously not.

good post etown...and that is a HUGE hurdle to legalization...how do you tell if i was smoking 10 minutes ago or 10 days ago. but that makes me think if its that hard to tell if someone is impaired...how impaired are they really??

Sorry he it seems he wrote it like he smoked pot then that eve and not cause he smokes pot in general.

OMG, hannah! kai's point was that his moral compass is what it is, regardless of whether or not he ever smoked mj in his life. He gave the person a ride because it was the right thing to do, not because he smokes mj. His whole post was in answer to 916's post about pot smokers, "who help old ladies across the street." 916 was satirically implying - like you - that all pot smokers are immoral losers. kai was pointing out that he smokes pot, yet still has compassion for his fellow man.

Hannah, I think you are reading it wrong; and writing wrong, because I honestly can't understand half of your posts.

" I'm not saying that if it weren't for marijuana, I wouldn't have done that."
I guess I am reading this wrong.

okay fine those laws were wrong BUT until they were changed you COULDNT vote. Youll still smoke illegally cause the law is wrong. so until it is changed youre smoking illegally. If legal NO I wont go buy pot. I am sure we can pull up all the studies on how pot IS bad for you. There are just as many of those you know and those that say it is okay for you.

are you sure you dont get into coke etc? Maybe it is just a relative huh?

the only down fall i can see to legalizing pot, is there is no test that i know of. to find out if your truly under the influence at the time of an accident or if you smoked it last week and it still just shows in your system. pot like alcohol, can be abused and misused by anyone, not all people that drink are alcoholics, some are but not all, and not all people that smoke pot are pot heads with no jobs , some are. its called self control some have it some dont .

Spot on, copperguy.... except that I'm a he not a she. It's cool though, Kai is a fairly gender neutral name, easy to see why the mix up is there.
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Its true, Hannah, I never said I was high when I picked that guy up. I was sober to the bone. Hadn't even smoked at all that day.
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Hannah, guess who else didn't obey the law when it was wrong? (The law has been wrong before.) Rosa Parks, Martin Luther King Jr., and thousands of other black people (with support from several other races, including some white people) during the civil rights movement midway 20th century. Even before the civil rights movement, African American's have been fighting wrongful laws since the birth of this nation. It was only in the beginning of the 20th century that women even got the right to vote in all of our states. Women used to break the law just by *gasp* voting. Who am I, Hannah, to tell you that because the law used to be women can not vote, and you are a woman, you can't vote any more? The law was wrong. The law is wrong sometimes. It is our job as citizens of this country to fix the wrong laws and make them right, or get rid of them all together.

kid"hannah seriously. give up on the driving. no one is asking to legalize getting high and driving. im asking them to legalize me getting high on my couch. "

I am comparing it this way cause this is what you alway do compare something that is legal drinking and toss in it is illegal to drive drunk. This is YES just as much illegal as you smoking on the couch. sorry I am not explaining this well- youre comparing apple to orange. Sorry pot isnt legal but you are doing illegal things just like the drunk driver. Yes he will get others involved and if pot gets to be legal your argument is over and now youll have legal smoking illegally driving drunk as well. I think youll have more. Just like you state about it is legal to drink and many drunk drivers. You dont think youll have more under influence pot smokers driving if legal. I THINK SO!! theyre impared and think they are "fine " to drive.

Hannah you are being ignorant. I think you'd be shocked to know how many of us smokers are actually quite successful individuals.

Just so you know, movies and TV shows aren't real. I don't sit on the couch by a bag of Doritos all day. I am college educated, I have a career in finance in Milwaukee and have done very well for myself.

I don't mean to brag, but I can't stand it when smokers are painted as lazy slobs who do nothing with their lives.

HANNAH!!!!!!!!!!!! Read thekai's post again. She most certainly did NOT say she was stoned! OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! She said she is a pot smoker who gave someone a ride home who was drunk.

OMG!!!!!!!

Kai- i am sorry I didnt know you were trying to treat cancer.

"Truecitizen, where do you and everyone else keep getting the idea that us pro-legalization folks think it's OK for people to drive after smoking? None of us have ever mentioned that"

just KAI remember he picked up a drunk guy while driving under the stoned influence!!??

your friend is a loser who smokes pot and drinks...but you blame the pot. ignorant uninformed reefer madness...

hanna SERIOUSLY. people make fun of you on here and you email me to defend you...then you compare me smoking pot to child molestors. do you see the difference?? no victim vs victim. nvrmnd...you obviously dont see the difference or youd have never made the statement. but congrats...i didnt think it was possible but your posts are actually getting MORE un intelligent.

spunkmeyer- yes I hear of the colo thing.My hubby has a friend who is a pot smoker and if you ask me he is a loser. He thought it would be cool to live there. He has a career, makes good money, HAS NOTHING to show for it!!!!!!!!!Spends all the money on pot and drinks. Cannot pay your car payment on time if youre at the bar. so I guess I must be different I dont know any decent pot smokers either.That have anyhting to show for their hard work.

hannah seriously. give up on the driving. no one is asking to legalize getting high and driving. im asking them to legalize me getting high on my couch.

kai perfectly said again

and copperguy. thank you for your logic. people dont realize how right you are. the ONLY reason they can drink legally today is because to many people were drinking illegally anyways.

truecitizen: of course you wont start smoking pot. legal/illegal is not the reason you choose not to smoke now. everyone is soooo scared of the united states being flooded with stoners once its legal...but thats just not the case. i have yet to have one person tell me on this website that they will in fact start smoking when legal.

"the law is wrong." sorry no it isnt a misprint. You may not agree with the law but that doesnt make it wrong. So what other laws DONT you obey cause theyre "wrong"

Good thing those child molesters who think the law is "WRONG" get tossed in prison huh?

kai-"I'm not saying that if it weren't for marijuana, I wouldn't have done that. I'm saying people from all walks of life smoke marijuana."

and they say pot smoking is safe- lets see- driving high WITH impaired judgement. Luckily he wasnt a freak.

Hannah, nobody ever said it was OK to drive after smoking! As much as I want it legal, I also want it taxed and regulated just like anything else.

Here, I'll try and give a simple example for you. I enjoy beer and I'm glad it's legal. At the same time, even though it's legal, I know that it's ILLEGAL to use it IN COMBINATION WITH driving.

How hard is that to understand?!!

thekai: Interesting reading. One point of contention though. You state that mj doesn't cause permanent brain damage. The link you posted said that it didn't cause any more damage than alcohol or other drugs, "researchers say impairments were less than what is typically found from using alcohol or other drugs." There is a difference between your assertion and the actual article.

It has long been my contention that frequent mj users do get "slower and slower" with time. Perhaps - as the article said might be the case - this is because my observation is of people who started smoking it at an early age, ""However, there might be a different set of circumstances to a 12-year-old whose nervous system is still developing."

OWI is OWI. It makes no difference if the impairment is caused by alcohol, marijuana, or Benadryl (among many others). I have arrested for OWI/THC though less frequently than OWI/alcohol.

If not for protesters, adults would not be able to lawfully consume alcoholic beverages. Only with the efforts of people like thekai, thekid, and others, will this issue someday be reversed. I do not smoke mj (did a couple times as a kid) and have zero interest in doing so whether it's legal or not. But, I do believe that it should be no less a choice of consenting adults than is tobacco or alcohol.

Washouts are washouts. It makes no difference if they're a washout because of alcohol or because of THC. Legalize it. Tax it. And impose harsh sentences for those who provide it to kids. OWI is already dealt with.

"No I will not use it."
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Then that is your choice, and there's nothing wrong with that. Please do understand that those who do use it may understand the "drug" better than you do, though.
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"I am stronger willed than that."
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I have a strong enough will not to use heroin, meth, crack, coke, PCP... a ton of other hard drugs. It doesn't take a strong will. You just have to say, "no". What does take a lot of will power, is a heroin user who quits. That's tough.
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"It is a bad substance to put into the population. Problems will result."
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It's already in most communities across the United States. The only problems that we are certain to have resulted, have actually resulted from the fact that it's illegal, not from the herb itself. It's similar to how alcohol brought about huge gang violence and a powerful black market. The difference is, alcohol actually causes problems on its own (hence it was made illegal in the first place). Marijuana, on the other hand, was only made criminal out of uneducated fear, for political and financial gains, and out of prejudice.
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"I don't need excuses to get a 'fix', because I have other better things to do with my life."
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I don't need excuse either. In fact, I don't even -need- anything, much less a "fix." Most people who smoke tobacco need a fix. Crack heads need a fix, and heroin users NEED to chase that dragon. People who smoke marijuana WANT to get high, some because they have other things to do in life (enhanced by getting high). Still, no one is saying that if it's legal you have to smoke, thekid was just wondering.
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"So continue using it if you have to."
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I, and I can speak for thekid too, don't -have- to. We choose to. And we will continue to smoke marijuana, thank you for your endorsement.
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It does not make sense.
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To some, it doesn't make any sense that some people like to get extremely drunk. To even more people, it makes even less sense why people want to get really drunk and then try to drive (refer to this article). To me, and thekid, it doesn't make sense why some people who independently choose not to smoke marijuana feel so compelled to tell everyone else who enjoys it that we can't smoke marijuana.

why are we criminals but people who choose to relax with alcohol arent??"

you keep saying they arent crimainls- they are if they drive drunk- you cannot catch them all. For now it is legal to have drinks at home or whereever. YES you are criminals cause it is ILLEGAL NOW. why cant you understand this? Until it is legal if ever you will still be a criminal. I doubt youll ever be arrested for it unless somebody rats you out and then yould be caught.

"if alcohol is legal there is NOT ONE reason that marijuana should not be..."

here is one- we already HAVE ONE. isnt that enough!!?? Why cant crack be legal then too? come on!! It only hurts a few people. and so does pot- yes SOME become waistoids and do NOTHING with their lives. yes I have seen this. 3 generations in a row. dad is high why cant i be high and a loser the rest of my life. YES KID these two WERE losers!!! and still are losers.

So kid- when if ever pot becomes illegal and people are driving around stonned and DONT tell me getting stoned DOESNT impar your driving cause that is just not true!! Just because the pot is legal the driving around stoned WILL NOT be . THIS IS NOT any different than drunk driving. Still illegal wether pot is legal or not.

kid- enough with your pot plea- they are criminals.They were arrested for drunk driving. See illegal just like you.

again most dont know how to drive. I have been stopped on south atwood and people turning onto atwood from court DONT know how to stay in their own lane and frequently CUT OFF the guy waiting at the stop sign. Unfortunately the guy at the stop sign has to inch forward to SEE the traffic coming up the hill but you are still in your lane.

No I will not use it. I am stronger willed than that. It is a bad substance to put into the population. Problems will result. I don't need excuses to get a 'fix', because I have other better things to do with my life. So continue using it if you have to. It does not make sense.

wondering,
I apologize if I gave off the impression that I thought you were calling me a liar. I do not think you were calling me a liar, and I certainly can understand why people would like to see proof of the statements I make. I do wish that more people would do some research before calling me out, though. (It's reasonable to call me out without doing the research, seeing as how there is no indication that I'm a professional and would not just make stuff up. It's just a wish of mine that people would check the facts on their own.)
To clarify, last night I told thekid that I think marijuana would be legal -within- 19 years. I certainly hope it doesn't take that long, but I'll place a bet on within 19 years, sure.
Here is an exact copy and paste of that I said regarding marijuana vs cigarettes.
"Fact. In studies about marijuana's effects on someone's body when compared to tobacco's effects on someone's body, it was shown that light, regular, and heavy marijuana users are not at a higher risk for diseases, cancers, and infections commonly associated with smoking cigarettes, than non-marijuana users."

To break it down...
"Fact. In studies about marijuana's effects on someone's body when compared to tobacco's effects on someone's body..." "...marijuana users are not at a higher risk..." "...than non-marijuana users."
The only reason tobacco is mentioned is because it is well known that smoking tobacco regularly can put you at an increased risk for cancers of the mouth, throat, and lungs, emphysema, and may cause problems with pregnancy (among a huge laundry list of other health related complications). Most people then naturally assume that this is caused by the act of smoking itself, and not just all of the chemicals in tobacco cigarettes. This is a false assumption though, at least with regard to marijuana. I specifically said that even a heavy marijuana user is not at a higher risk of said ailments than a NON MARIJUANA USER. This applies when you compare marijuana users and non marijuana users who both do not smoke tobacco cigarettes. Of course, the act of smoking cigarettes alone puts you at an increased risk for said ailments, so the findings reflect.

of course people dont act the same when high or drunk. both mind altering substances...which brings us back to why is one legal and not the other?? yer aware you can overdose on those aspirin you mention...but not pot?? ughhhh just expletive legalize it already so i can go away...:)

The kai; Thanks for the informative links, I will take time to ingest its content and make my own conclusions, In rereading your prior post it states: Fact Marijuana has been actually shown to reverse some types of cancer, not stop. Fact, in studies about marijuana's effect on someone's body when compared to tobacco's effect on someone's body, marijuana users are not at any higher risk, doesn't state lower or no risk.
I certainly never stated you were lying and I have not ever read any of your previous posts, I was simply trying to show that when a person is under the influence of marijuana or alcohol they simply do not display normal behavior or judgement, I have seen this first hand, and there are lingering effects, you can't just take two asprin and wake up in the morning at 100% normality. By the way have you found the kids yet? (another hint; the car has been warm and running for hours.)

truecitizen: do you smoke pot?? if not, when legal will you start??

truecitizen: did you read that link i posted?? california is talking NOW about legalizing and taxing it. i think you are wrong. i think we will have legal pot at some point soon. last nite kai guessed 19 years an i put my number at 10. there are currently 14 states that allow medical marijuana. wi, il, mn, and ia are all discussing it...and im sure a few others out of the area im not aware of. once a majority of states pass mmj bills the feds will have NO choice but to remove their penalties, which according to the CONSTITUTION they should have no say so whatsoever anyways, but once they remove their penalties you will see the states fall in line to legalize it an tax it. but thanx for proving kais point that those who know nothing about the plant have baseless, reefer madness arguments.

I normally will not double post, but after doing some quick research and posting I wasn't satisfied. I delved a little deeper and also found this to go along with the statement that marijuana reverses some types of cancer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BWBqtIlN...
You can research the claims made in that video if you would like. The results are, if nothing else, slightly disturbing. It's true, our government just has/had a hate on for marijuana, and it's misguided.

Marijuana reverses some types of cancer.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/200...
(I'll point out the story says it can STOP, not reverse, the spread. The story also has professional statements from doctors saying they still don't recommend smoking marijuana. They have to say that, or they can lose their job. It's still illegal. The article also says smoking marijuana -likely- won't get you a high enough dose to make a difference. The point is, prior to this, the argument was that marijuana puts you at an increased risk of cancer. That simply is not true.)
Marijuana does not put you at an increased risk for diseases, cancers, or infections commonly associated with cigarettes. Re-read what I said. When compared to NON-SMOKERS. Not when compared to cigarette smokers. When compared to NON SMOKERS.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,1966...
In other words, I smoke marijuana, and you don't, wondering. I'm not at a higher risk of mouth, throat, and lung cancers, diseases, or infections, than you are (based on our comparative marijuana smoking habits.) I AM at a MUCH lower risk, than a tobacco smoker... even though I very regularly smoke marijuana.
Marijuana causes no permanent brain damage.
http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/news/...
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I've posted support for my arguments in numerous articles on the gazette website. I have researched quite thoroughly, and I invite you to do the same. If you think that I am lying to you, then call me out, but use your own references with your post. I've submitted my references time after time, I think it's only fair that if you expect me to do it again (all be it, you probably didn't see my past posts) then you must also provide proof for your side of the argument. If you would actually take a moment to do the research yourself, then you would find that I'm not pulling this out of a magical hat.

the kai; thanks for the concern about my health I really am okay, I do wonder (hence the name wondering1) where you get your facts from, Marijuana is legal for medical use in some states but only to lessen the effects of many of the drugs used to treat illnesses such as cancer, as to reversing cancer I would like to see your documented proof, If this would be true I am sure many of our fine medical institutions (Mayo Clinic, UW Med, Clinic for Cancer Research, etc) would be advocating the use of it as a treatment. No argument about the use of tobacco and the ill effects it can have on a person, well documented, as to marijuana having no ill effects on your body, it says right in your own statement that compared to tobacco users, there is no HIGHER risks associated with its use, but still is a risk. I applaud you on your healthy food choices and truely believe what a person does in the confines of thier own home is thier own business, the point to my post was that alcohol and pot do alter ones state of mind and do have an effect on the way we perceive certain things, read my post again and I think you may realize where the kids really are (hint, they were left the same place the keys were)

Truecitizen, where do you and everyone else keep getting the idea that us pro-legalization folks think it's OK for people to drive after smoking? None of us have ever mentioned that.

Refer to my previous post. I am a "real man", thank you very much.

Losers? Jello heads? Way to keep perpetuating the stereotype. Name calling during an adult debate is evidence that your argument stands on a very weak foundation.

makessense: I get a kick out of people like you who come on here pissing and moaning about people here who are pissing and moaning, true is right you should be getting back to work and i'll enjoy my week off :-)

cardtrader: your the only one I hear clucking away, you sound like a nosey old lady, mind your own business maybe?

Makessense.....shouldn't you be getting back to work?

Kid....you realize it is going to stay illegal period. I want it to be a crime for ever, and it will be. We have enough jello-heads making our country weak. I agree it is burdening the system to fight it. So I say lets get tougher. I do not back down from the line in the sand.
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This article is about booze and driving. We are too soft on that also. You argue about the apparent waist of police time and economic advantages of legalizing pot.?? I CAN"T IMAGINE THE BURDEN OFFICERS WILL HAVE WHEN EVERYONE DRIVING AROUND IS NOW HIGH ON DOPE ALSO! Why don't you losers quit with your worthless arguments, and become real men. There is plenty of stuff out there that is enjoable, unhealthy, and NOT illegal-for you to ruin your lives on without potentially hurting others! You know damn-well that people would drive around HIGH more than they already are (key point), and these two-ton vehicles require 'sobor' drivers.
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Good job to the officers for processing this OWI and accident scene!

Incredible, we in Rock county have to get people back to work!! Less time to sit around commenting on every story in the Gazette!!

hey spunk...it wont be long now...thats the same thing the monkey said when he got his tail caught in the lawn mower:) last week california had committe hearings about legalizing and taxing it. more info....

http://wap.cbsnews.com/site?t=U.CSddRABI...

It won't be long now...

"Colorado ski town legalizes pot
(AP) – 11 hours ago
DENVER — The Colorado ski town of Breckenridge has voted overwhelmingly to legalize marijuana.
Early returns Tuesday night showed the proposal winning with 72 percent of the vote. The measure would allow adults over 21 to have up to 1 ounce of marijuana.
The measure is largely symbolic because pot possession remains a state crime for people without medical clearance. But supporters said they wanted to send a message to local law enforcement to stop busting small-time pot smokers.
The vote comes as communities nationwide are struggling with how to enforce pot laws at a time when medical marijuana has surged in popularity."

lol@kai. i sooo wish the blind could comprehend your post...

i think if pot users came out of the closet, like i have, you would be surprised at the people who are on our team. the blind would crap to see who's on the team. there are MILLIONS of people like myself, juststoppingby, and kai. we are not the exception to the rule. WE ARE THE RULE. the people who make bad choices while high are the exception to the rule. reefer madness has most peeps convinced its the other way around.

kai hit the nail on the head as to why we want legalized pot. cost has nothing to do with it. i want, because it should be my RIGHT, to smoke a hitter at a ball game without sneaking into my car. i want to legally sit around the campfire and smoke a joint while others are drinking beer. we pot smokers are not wrong for what we do. the law is wrong.

wondering,
I'm seriously concerned about your health, are you okay?
Fact. Marijuana has been shown to actually reverse some types of cancer.
Fact. In studies about marijuana's effects on someone's body when compared to tobacco's effects on someone's body, it was shown that light, regular, and heavy marijuana users are not at a higher risk for diseases, cancers, and infections commonly associated with smoking cigarettes, than non-marijuana users.
Fact. Marijuana causes no permanent brain damage.
Fact. Marijuana increases your appetite.
Fact. Myself and my room mate love smoking weed, and we HATE fast food, and rarely eat it.
Fact. I'm a stoner and I eat vegetarian Monday through Friday.
Fact. The largest opposition to the legalization of marijuana comes from those who know little or -nothing- about the actual herb.
Fact. Not knowing about marijuana is 100 times scarier than actually knowing about its effects.
Joke. Unless kids are trying to hide from you, it's REALLY hard to lose them (especially in your own house)!
Would you care to present any real arguments, or are you going to continue to abuse inaccurate stereotypes?

"But officers later determined that Bruss was not driving when the accident happened."
.
This is why it's confusing.....

whhheee(cough,cough) ppsstt(glug,glug) bbrrrrb - well I really don't sea what all the fuzz is bout, this stuff is harmlessly, peoples have been using htis stuff for decades or at least a couple of dozen tens of years-whhheee(cough,cough)- its not like it has any lasting effection on a person I think legalizing pot would be gooder for the economy, just think of all the extra burger flippers and mmmmm french fries mmmmm french fries mmmm friers persons Mcdonalds would have to hire to keep up with the demand, -(glug,glug) bbrrrrb- well i thinks my point is proven, now I gots to get my kids to daycare, where the hell are my car keys? Oh yah I left them in the ignition, yup there they is and the car is still running and all warmed up, now where the hell did I leave the kids?

916, nice comment about Whitewater. I graduated from UW-W, I work 2 jobs (about 65 hours a week), make about $50,000 a year, hit the gym 3 to 4 times a week and also volunteer with a local arts group. I’m a very active person and I’m usually busy from 7 am to 10 pm every day.

Oh, and I also smoke every single night.

After a 15 hour day, there is nothing better than enjoying a smoke on the couch. No different than cracking open a beer or two and watching TV. I don’t get behind the wheel of a car and it doesn’t affect anyone but me. Don’t generalize people.

"As he approached the crash site near the Rock County Courthouse, Carpenter saw a red Ford Explorer drive out of the intersection and stop on South Atwood Avenue, according to police reports.

When the driver—Chad R. Bruss, 29, of 2103 Green Valley Drive, Janesville—exited the car,"

That's why.

My question is, if Bruss was found not to be a driver, then how is it that he's charged with OWI??

If marijuana were legalized, yes, it would get taxed. I think marijuana would be cheaper than what it is right now, though. One thing I'm sure about, it wouldn't be more expensive. One quality that both tobacco and alcohol possess is they are highly addictive. Tobacco is more addictive than alcohol. If it were not for the addictiveness, there is no way the government would be able to get away with taxing tobacco so much. If they tried a similar framework for marijuana (after legalizing it) then people would just start growing it. A big reason more people don't grow it right now is because even though it's easy to grow, it's also easy to get caught. The government would be forced to keep marijuana prices low, if they wanted to make any money off of it.
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For thekid, and most marijuana smokers though, price is not the reason we want it legalized. We don't enjoy being persecuted for something we enjoy doing. Especially when it is one of the most harmless "drugs" out there. If you compare marijuana to alcohol, it makes marijuana look like the safest thing in the world. If you compare marijuana to tobacco, it still looks like one of the safest things in the world. Why then should we be told that we aren't allowed to get high, and why should we have to risk our lives being ruined by the LAW and -not- by the "drug" itself? That's the issue here, at least for most marijuana users. Price is only of small concern.
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916WI,
Maybe thekid painted a pretty picture. You're right. Not all pot smokers are young and successful, with 2.5 kids and a house of their own. I'll tell you what, though. There are a lot of people who use marijuana who are very successful. I have a really good friend who's a young adult, has his own (brand new) car, his own house, a loving girlfriend, makes more than 6 figures a year, and enjoys smoking marijuana. You joked about helping the elderly cross the street, but what's kind of funny.... just the other day I was on my way home and I saw a drunk guy walking home at about 1 AM, colder than all heck outside. I stopped and asked him if he wanted a ride, and he gladly accepted. I'm not saying that if it weren't for marijuana, I wouldn't have done that. I'm saying people from all walks of life smoke marijuana. Athletes, businessmen and women, scholars, bums, physically challenged people, mentally challenged people, garbage men, hair stylists, comedians, actors and actresses, pilots, bus drivers, teachers, doctors, lawyers, drop outs, valedictorians, "Joe Six-Packers", old people, young people, Mexicans, blacks, Jews, Asians, giants, midgets, I could keep going! The only thing some of those people even have in common is that they smoke weed, and that should speak a world of reason to you.

Thekid and justaguy why dont you two get a room and kiss an make up for gods sake you two sound like a couple old hens just clucking away.

Sure kid.....All the pot smokers you know are young professionals, with wonderful families who help old ladies across the street in their spare time.....Too funny! There's a big difference between stopping after work to have a couple beers on a Friday night and getting wrapped up with a drug like pot. MY EXPERIENCE in dealing with people that were using pot, was that, while it didn't ruin their lives, it definitely was an obstacle to their success. Maybe you and I measure success in different ways though.....

I'm sure the politicians who've made careers and built huge campaign funds on both sides of the drug war and the druglords enjoy the "pot shots" both sides are taking here.... divide and conquer.

The truth is that this society isn't managing a legal drug -alcohol- or illegal drug -marijuana- very well. We need to be far less tolerant of the abuse of alcohol. For more than 3 DWI convictions, a person should lose all driving privileges (in all states) and be banded with a permanent GPS tracker. The police would be equipped with a monitoring program that alerts them whenever that tracker is moving at automotive speed. The cops should have the legal right to investigate any vehicle with a tracker signal emanating from it and ensure the offender is not driving - drunk or sober.

Marijuana should be legalized, regulated and taxed. Let American farmers grow it to keep the money in this country and the ATF put tax stamps on it. We would need to come up with a DUI equivalency test for THC and enact strong penalties for driving under the influence, including the same tracker program for 3rd offenders. Perhaps if more stoners were were seen "out of the closet" going nowhere with their lives, pot would lose some of it's anti-establishment "glamor".

With the tax money from pot and the freed up jail space by releasing pot users, the police should crack down on other drugs. 1st arrest with cocaine in your system should be a mandatory month in jail - no "weekend" sentences or Huber privileges. 1st arrest for selling cocaine should be a year. For each subsequent offense, add a month or a year. If prison space becomes an issue due to drug and alcohol-related incarcerations, we should consider adopting the jail management system of Sheriff Joe Arpaio, of Maricopa County, Arizona.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Arpaio#...

Thankfully it sounds like nobody was hurt in this accident. The point is that both driving drunk and possessing or using pot is illegal, period. It is legal to consume alcohol, but once you have too much and get behind the wheel, you are breaking the law.

I have a question for you kid, why do you want your pot legalized so badly? I have no idea how much pot costs, nor do I care, but if it is legalized they are going to tax it to death anyways. Seems like it would be better for you since you are a law abiding citizen and all except for the pot use, to keep it the way it is. I mean look what they have done with the tobacco tax and now they are trying to add the beer tax too. Do you really think it will be any different? I'm just sayin....

excellent. welcome to the team. im all for shooting guns off in town if its done in a responsible/safe manner

well for being speechless you sure said enough, but I feel about making pot legal as much as you like my making shooting guns in town legal. You won't agree but both can kill. I've heard of tree huggers before but I picture you hugging a pot plant :-) ... been fun but i'm done, you have a good night.

im not asking to make all things legal thats silly. most all things illegal are illegal because they have a 'victim'...that is someone is affected negatively by the act...thats not the case with possessing pot. you tell me its a free country but i cant grow a plant in my back yard and smoke it on my couch?? REALLY??...and you equating me smoking pot to you shooting a gun in your back yard is just ignorant and quite frankly leaves me speechless...

thekid: I have a few guns and I love to shoot them BUT i have to go to a gun range to fire them, you think if I cry about it long enough they will change the law so I can shoot them in my back yard? I mean this is a free country and all right? I'll be sure never to aim them at a house or auto and no one will get hurt when i'm behind that gun. I'm sorry to burst your bong but no i don't have a crush on you sorry, stupid people make me sneeze.

thekid: open your eyes and ears ... pot is still illegal and this is a free country. Now we need to make all things illegal legal to make it a free country? I'm no hypocrite but your sure no wiz kid. I'm thinking your over baked.

thekid: I'm sure your a nice guy and I think anyone has the right to do what they like in their house as long as it doesn't hurt anyone but tell me honestly ... have you even been behind the wheel and driving on the road while stoned?

and of course you have the right to join a conversation. i was just pointing out that you, like many before, initiated a convo with me and then blast me for 'ranting' about pot. makes me think you might have some sort of weird 1st grader crush on me...

lmao justaguy. for real. you start your post with 'if i remember right this is a free country'....ummmm you do realize im the one arguing for my freedom to choose what i put into my body?? hypocrite.

def more habitual than addictive. i would have guessed alcohol would have generated more calls than pot...but ive been wrong before:) i would have guessed more than the other illegal drugs for sure since waaaay more people smoke pot than use the other illegal drugs. you realize that if someone gets busted with pot they will probably be ordered to call a drug abuse center and set up an appointment....

thekid: If I remember right this is a free country and I have the right to join this convo if i like but you don't need to answer if you don't like, your problem is you think this story "along with most stories" are about you and getting pot legal. Also if you read the story reeeeal close ... you'll notice it's about drunk drivers, not you.

kid, I heard a radio show today where they said that the number one drug that people called their drug helpline for was marijuana...people who wanted to quit and couldn't. Thought that was interesting. Isn't it supposed to be more habitual than addictive... I guess it's hard habit to break!

on this website yes justaguy. pot is all i care about. come meet me in person and find out who i am. why do you ATTEMPT throw a childish insults around. as if me having a joint or smoke in my face is an insult. anyways...i agree 110% to the drivers being on the road high or drunk. neither is acceptable. and i know you dont care what i do on my couch...but uncle sam does. why am i a criminal for sitting here smoking some pot with thekai?? this should be my RIGHT. im sorry you think my head is in a cloud but let me remind you it is you who started the convo with me. i think my 7 year old would comprehend this but if you dont like the convo...dont join...

Although it is confusing, all three were driving drunk. The two women crashed, THEN the man took the wheel of the Explorer and moved it as the officer arrived. So all three were driving drunk at some point.

fishingal,

not the case here, but I know in some states you actually CAN be arrested for DUI as a passenger. If you call for a ride because you're drunk and the driver also happens to be DUI (including taxis), then yes you can be arrested as well. Doubt its true in WI, and I know that's not the case in this reported accident. But I believe NY is one of the states that has such a law. I think the reasoning is the driver might not have been driving if you weren't in the condition you (the passenger) were in.

thekid: if you take that joint out of your hand and clear the smoke from your face and read what i type I don't care what you do in your house or to your body, it's when you or some stoned pot head gets behind the wheel is when i start to care. I also feel the same about drunk drivers, I really am starting to think your head is in such a freakin cloud you have no clue about anything, it's just pot pot pot to you and that's all you see/care about.

lovethemidwest: I'll take back what i said about the drug house and child molestor that wasn't you who said that but the rest i said still goes.

for real justaguy...you realize your right is to control what i do to my body?? im not trying to control what you do to your body. in case you havent noticed...people are already smoking marijuana. 11 million regular smokers and 20-25 million annually. why are we criminals but people who choose to relax with alcohol arent??

lovethemidwest: Shows you know nothing ... about me, and I didn't categorize pot with anything but you combine pot and stupid people and then they get on the road i'm free to say whatever i like. Sounds more like when you get someone that doesn't agree with your view you'll claim they are brainwashed but I can understand that coming from a pothead. Now i understand in your comment on the other story about having a drug house near your house before a child molestor.

i wish i was laughing with you and not at you

seems justaguy has a superiority complex. Either that or he has let the "war on drugs" supporters brainwash him like so many others. Marijuana should not be categorized with the likes of heroin, cocaine, etc.....

thekid: I also pay taxes and I have my rights and i don't want pot to be legal. I already have to deal with drunk drivers and don't really care to have to dodge the potheads too, you being one of them.Also by your last statement about how good your pot smoking friends are you sound like you live in a perfect world? that's another thing pot will do to you, put you in a buzz.

says the guy who thinks drunk driving is a sport. really maybe you just hang out with losers?? every pot smoker i know now holds full time jobs. nice families. law biding citizens in every aspect other than consuming marijuana...

sannio told you he agreed with me and then you insulted him. are you 12??

im not sayin legalize pot cuz it kills less. im saying that we all have rights as tax paying citizens. and one of those rights is the option to consume alcohol...EVEN THOUGH IT KILLS THOUSANDS EVERY YEAR. if alcohol is legal there is NOT ONE reason that marijuana should not be...other than lobbyists currently and racism from early in the last century. why do i have the right to choose alcohol but not pot, when pot is commonly known to cause way more probs in society than pot.

The last thing I would want is pot legalized. Every one of the stoners I knew while going to school in Whitewater ended up failing out.....A pathetic drug for sure......

thekid: your stats mean nothing,pot has nothing to do with this story yet you slip it in in every story the gazette prints "ok almost every story" but it still doesn't help your case out any. I mean should we make pot legal just for the reason it might kill less? how stupid is that? and as far as sannio goes it's none of your business, he made sure to point his words towards me so I returned his favor ... you have nothing to do with it.

FAIL

justaguy: ive never said anyone should drive high. and your attempt to insult sannio for his comment shows what kind of intelligence/maturity, or lack there of in this case, you are working with.

localboy: my rants are getting old?? ummmm yeah pretty much i dont give a crap. i WISH i could give up the rant...but that would mean legal pot...and thats a few years away so bear with me...or just dont read my posts. whats getting old to me is we blog about all the stupid choices peeps make when intoxicated on alcohol and then we blog about people POSSESSING or SELLING pot. RARELY is it about the bad choices made. im aware bad choices are made, but not nearly to the extent of the bad choices made by alcohol.

OF COURSE driving drunk and possessing marijuana are illegal. you do see the HUGE difference between the two yes?? i mean the one puts anyone on the road at risk and the other actually puts NO ONE AT RISK.

I always wondered how many of those driving around at 2 or 3 AM were drunk. It now appears that the answer is "all of them".

fishingal: The 3rd person parked nearby the 2 car crash as the cop pulled up and the cop saw he wasn't walking very well and got him for drunk driving also.

The headline says 2 car accident yields 3 DUI arrests, but only the two drivers were arrested? Or did they arrest the passenger, Bruss, for DUI as well. Can you get a DUI as a passenger.

Newsflash - drunk driving AND smoking pot are both illegal.

Thekid - your pro-pot rants are getting old. It is so 1960's. Grow up and move on....

dub: boy that's some good thinking, way to use your head.

Thank GOD they weren't SMOKING POT INSTEAD! You don't know how much worse it could have been!

B1 ... it's all good :-)

Thanks, justaguy. I appreciate that. Are we good now?

For once i'll have to agree with B1 ;-) .... all the above can/will kill once you get behind the wheel. I don't care what one does where they live, smoke pot drink whatever but when you get behind the wheel then it's my business too. thekid: Please don't give me your stats on how much better it is to drive stoned rather than driving drunk, you'll be wasting your time.

I don't care if the person has been consuming alcohol, weed, or a combination of the two. If you use, don't drive. Period.

sannio: what makes you think i'd care what you think?

sannio: are you high right now? or you just too lazy to type anymore than what you did?

thekid: well I don't remember reading anyone getting killed in this story and how do you know none of these people didn't smoke some pot also? I mean it's not like it wouldn't not be heard of smoking pot and drinking at the same time.

justaguy - I agree with the kid.

thats exactly what im saying. it flat out expletives me off that this drug kills day after day after day yet pot is illegal. why do people have the personal freedom to choose this but i dont have the personal freedom to choose pot??...A DRUG THAT DOESNT KILL DAY AFTER DAY AFTER DAY. it makes noooo sense whatsoever. none. nathan. nada. the only sense it makes is that it proves how the lobbyist control our govt. trust me, im not reading this high, if i was this rant would be waaaaaay longer. the only consolation i have is that this hypocrisy will end.

pot being illegal doesnt make it a worse drug than alcohol. at least to the non blind.

thekid: bcuz this was alcohol behind the wheel your trying to say pot is ok? You really need to stop reading these stories while high. Read my lips .... pot is illegal :-)

But officers later determined that Bruss was not driving when the accident happened.

Darn Drunk Passengers

they were out getting prepaired for services, at the red door,but lost their sense of direction.

story after story starring the 'eviler of two evils' in a negative role. it sure is good we allow anyone who makes it to the ripe old age of 21 the option to exercise their freedom of choice by consuming alcohol...yet the 20 million annual pot smokers are criminals. what a joke.

Do not pass go, do not collect $200