Fairness, speed of education-reform measures questioned
JANESVILLE — The latest word in education reform is using children's test scores to grade teachers.
The idea is to identify the "A" teachers, the "B" teachers and, yes, the "C", "D" and "F" teachers and then manage the teachers to get the best results for students.
But how well do test scores reflect the teachers' efforts? Some local teachers are worried that this rush to judge them ignores the human element.
Stephanie Kortyna, a teacher at Janesville's Jackson Elementary School, has two homeless children in her fifth-grade class this year.
"Is their mind really on taking a standardized test, or is it on ‘where am I going to sleep tonight?'" Kortyna said. "You just can't see that on a standardized test."
"We're dealing with human beings here, not an industrial product," said Steve Strieker, a social studies teacher at Parker High School.
Teaching is an art, and while science can tell us something about how education works, it can't measure the art, Strieker said.
What if a child gets no parental support? What if he has to take care of his younger brother and sister the night before and falls asleep before he can do his homework, asked Janesville art teacher Jon Maglio.
And how do you compare a teacher with a room full of kids with great parental support to a teacher whose kids lack those advantages?
"You really have to delve into what's happening in these kids' lives before you can accuse a teacher of not doing their job," Maglio said.
President Obama wants to use test scores to measure teachers' performance, and he is offering massive funding to selected states that go along with that idea. That's why Gov. Jim Doyle signed into law last week a measure allowing test scores to be a part of teacher evaluations.
Critics such as Rep. Brett Davis, R-Oregon, say the measure is weak because it doesn't allow test scores to be used to fire or discipline teachers.
State officials said Wisconsin had to make the changes to be eligible for some of $4.5 billion in federal Race to the Top education grants.
"This is a race for money. That's what frustrates me," Davis said. "People are not focused on solutions."
The solution includes a system more elaborate than using just test scores, said Allan Odden, UW-Madison professor of educational administration.
"All states and districts need a database that links students and their achievement scores to teachers (who taught them the subject) and to schools, both as an overall management tool and for many, many other purposes," Odden said in an e-mail response to a question from the Gazette.
"Using teacher impacts on student learning, measured multiple ways, increasingly is being recognized and accepted as something that needs to be done." Odden said.
The new state law includes protections for teachers. It requires a school board to negotiate any test-based system with the local teachers union. Critics say that defangs the law.
Teachers say they should have a say in how an evaluation system works if they're going to be evaluated using their students' scores.
Strieker said "Race to the Top" scares him.
"Its focus is on competition. … Maybe the ultimate goal is help student achievement. But pitting state versus state, district versus district, teacher versus teacher—I didn't get into education to be competitive."
Strieker and others say they prefer collaboration, where everyone works together for the good of the child.
Wisconsin's once-a-year tests don't cut it, several teachers said.
The tests are given in the fall, noted Wendy Haag, special-education teacher at Janesville's Jackson School. So who bears responsibility for a child's score? The teacher who has had the child for six weeks, or the one who taught the child last year? Or the year before?
"What if the child moves from another district or state? What if half the class comes out of poverty with no support at home?" Haag asked.
Kortyna said her fifth-grade class includes 18 students with third-grade reading levels and one at a first-grade level. How are they going to even understand a state test aimed at fifth-graders, she asked.
"If we have a student who is not reading at grade level, that didn't happen the year that he or she took the test," Haag said.
Many children get little help at home with practicing reading or math, Haag said. Teachers try to get the parents involved, "but sometimes parents work two jobs or have other issues that interfere with parenting in the way that we educators would like to see," Haag said.
"The child is not only the test score," Haag said. "The child is bigger. So how could we evaluate a teacher based on the child's tests scores?
"I believe it is my responsibility to find ways to help kids and to help them succeed, but on the other hand, there are so many other factors, and to come down on a teacher or to come down on a school because a kid doesn't succeed, it's kind of a naïve way of looking at it," Maglio said.
Haag said she's willing to look at a system that takes into account the complex factors that a teacher faces and the human element.
"I think it could happen. I think if teachers were part of that evaluation panel and teachers who were struggling were given opportunities to build skills … I think we could do something like that," Haag said.
"But it would have to be very carefully crafted to get my support."
Nov 16, 2009 at 8:09 p.m.
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Whatever you do, don't give the teachers a raise! Dr. Schulte originally wanted to budget for 2% and now that has changed to a freeze instead. Maybe if we can rush fast enough and come up with some BS plan to satisfy Washington, we can get some money to help the poor tax payers of Janesville and Wisconsin. Heaven forbid we actually invest in education and make it a number one priority in this country, state, or city. Whether you agree or not, kids deserve better. Today's world is a much scarier place to grow up in than most of you could ever imagine. If you disagree, spend some time with a homeless student in the district.
Nov 16, 2009 at 7:53 p.m.
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Not sure why we would want to rush education reform - Why Johnny Can't Read has been a catch phrase since . . .
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Education: Why Johnny Can't Read
Monday, Mar. 14, 1955
When Bestselling Author Rudolf Flesch (The Art of Plain Talk) offered to give a friend's twelve-year-old son some "remedial reading," Flesch discovered that the boy was not slow or maladjusted; he had merely been "exposed to an ordinary American school." Author Flesch decided to investigate how reading is taught in the U.S. Last week he published his findings in a 222-page book, Why Johnny Can't Read—and What You Can Do About It (Harper; $3), that will shock many a U.S. parent and educator.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/articl...
Nov 16, 2009 at 7:29 p.m.
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SEC'Y DUNCAN: We have to get dramatically better. We have a time of economic crisis in the country. We've been arguing we have a time of educational, academic crisis. We have 1.2 million dropouts a year in this country. How can we sustain that? So we have to dramatically reduce the dropout rate, we have to dramatically increase the graduation rate and we have to make sure many more of our high school graduates are prepared to be successful in college and in the world of work.
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GREGORY: She talks about shared responsibility. But educators are saying where is the shared responsibility, the accountability among the unions? Michelle Rhee, who I mentioned, head of D.C. schools, talks about the accountability question from her point of view. Watch.
(Videotape)
MS. MICHELLE RHEE: The one topic that is most important to address in public education today, in my opinion, is how we are going to implement a system of accountability. For far too long, we have had children in our districts who are failing academically, and all of the adults have been able to keep their jobs and keep their contracts and that sort of thing. And that really, that dynamic has to change
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'Meet the Press' transcript for Nov. 15, 2009
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33931557/ns/...
Nov 16, 2009 at 2:51 p.m.
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napalm,
If we all agree (and I hope we do) that education is important than why wouldn't it be a team effort.
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Teachers should do their part but if a student falls behind for any reason the parents and teachers need to work together to bring the student up to speed. The biggest problem with the home is when education isn't valued and the parents undermine the efforts of the school.
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I don't believe a teacher can teach a child from a broken, abusive, illiterate home at the same rate as a child from a healthy, well-educated, education is WAY important (ex. homework before play) home. It would appear to be impossible.
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If we want to compete with other country's education system AND provide a well-rounded education to ALL children some work needs to be done at home with parental support.
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Nov 16, 2009 at 2:18 p.m.
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Why would you hold parents accountable for kids learning? We pay teachers to do this. What are teachers for then? To relay what a text book says and take it home and study it? Then the schools are not being used for their original intention. School work should be done at school, Not to take home and figure it out yourself. The education system was never perfected and has derailed. Everyone thinks there is a "system". There might be, but not one that works.
Nov 16, 2009 at 2:13 p.m.
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I think teachers should be graded also. I dont like how they pass the blame on to kids for not being able to learn. I had quite a few teachers that had a major lack of teaching skills. If they cant hold a students interest then they cant teach. Mrs. Stehura from Milton for example. Sure she may have been smart, but she couldnt teach.
Nov 16, 2009 at 1:36 p.m.
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I believe this could work for most teachers, but what about the teachers who teach special areas such as art, music, phy ed, students with special needs, etc.? I think it would be hard to come up with "standardized" tests for these areas. Also, the link of not doing well on tests and their parents' ability to pay for lunch is absurd!
Nov 16, 2009 at 1:02 p.m.
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kinsohn,
Your comparison to "meatpackers" not only be-littles actual meatpackers but also the entire teaching staff in Janesville. As for your football comparison, what does that have to do with anything? Brett Farve has alot of experiance and tenure-maybe Green Bay should have kept him a few more years?
"School district administrators are hardly the only people whose jobs require judgment in managing their employees." You make it sound as if once teachers enter into the union they are no longer supervised or monitored. Maybe you should do some research and find out the facts of how they are supervised and reviewed.
Actually the teachers are paid on tenure but also the amount of higher education they recieve on their own while teaching. Very similar to that of the military and other branches of government employment. I agree it may not be the most efficient at weeding out the poor teachers and other routes could be explored but tying teacher pay to a test is not the answer. Obviously student achievement should be looked at but the process of evaluating this achievement is very difficult and will take time to implement.
Finally, you said "You can control for children who are harder to teach by tracking results against the proportion of students who participate in the free/reduced cost student lunch programs, for example." Good idea. Since your parents are currently unemployed and you qualify for the free or reduced lunch you should not have to do as well on the test. Ignorant at best.
Nov 16, 2009 at 12:08 p.m.
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I am at the school quite often. You have teachers who are excellent. Then you have the slackers. They are not all the same and should not all get the same pay raise. It is not right. ONLY teachers who know they are slackers would truly be afraid of something like this. It makes to reward the great teachers and get rid of the not so good. It will eventually happen in Wisconsin if they want the money.
Nov 16, 2009 at 12:01 p.m.
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Curtain call, when was the last time you spent time observing in any public school?
I have seen elementary teachers not only provide small group instruction for kids who were struggling but also organize specific skills practice for children with volunteers. Yes, many of our buildings are fortunate enough to have volunteers who know that kids need all the support they can get -- so maybe you should do some volunteering to help kids. You would see how much effort, patience, and skill our teachers invest in the children of this community. I am amazed everyday by the work they are doing for children.
Nov 16, 2009 at 10:55 a.m.
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A standardized test is not a good way to evaluate teachers.
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The best way is to create common assessments at the school/department level and evaluate based on that.
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Some of the points are valid and most good teachers don't fear being evaluated but using the WKCE is not a good idea.
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If you use the WKCE to evaluate plan on having a bunch of kids educated to pass the WKCE. I have seen the WKCE, I want my children to learn way more and WAY DIFFERENT material.
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Again, the majority of teachers don't fear being evaluated but make sure the evaluation is about education.
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Nov 16, 2009 at 9:55 a.m.
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You can control for children who are harder to teach by tracking results against the proportion of students who participate in the free/reduced cost student lunch programs, for example.
The solution to determining which teachers are better than others should not be abandoned because it's not as easy as filling out a scan-tron test. School district administrators are hardly the only people whose jobs require judgment in managing their employees.
The alternative is the current system where, because teachers organize themselves like meatpackers, all teachers are considered equal, they basically cannot be fired, and pay is based on tenure, not ability to teach. Sounds like a recipe for failure, or mediocrity at best. Can you imagine if you staffed a football team that way?
Nov 16, 2009 at 9:25 a.m.
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If teacher's don't produce they should be fired. If they don't get results they should be fired. Why they should they be exempt from showing they are doing a good job at work like the rest of us. We all work with people in some form or another. We all have to show results. Just a bunch of whining from teachers who don't want to be held accountable. Just get a pay check. How ever districts and the state need to go into this slowly and not just jump. Make sure they put it together correctly.
Nov 16, 2009 at 8:31 a.m.
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loose,
That manager can simply FIRE an alcoholic employee...teachers don't have an "easy" option like that.
Nov 15, 2009 at 9:20 p.m.
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Loose- one difference: if your employee is a drunk who doesn't produce because of his after work activities, you can fire him. Schools can't fire students. This is tried and that is tried and in the long run you still have those that lag because of whatever excuse you want to mention. BTW does the AP Calculus teacher get a bigger raise because his students do better on the canned test than the Algebra 1A teacher? I'll bet you the Algebra teacher has a bigger challenge.
Nov 15, 2009 at 8:14 p.m.
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In my opinion we need to start holding parents accountable for the education of a child from birth to age 4 or 5 and even beyond. If a child enters school and cannot pass simple tests (I.E.colors, shapes, letters, etc.) the parents should be held accountable. To often students enter school way behind their peers and then struggle to catch up. Many come not knowing which way to hold up a book correctly. Who is to blame for this? 95% of a child's life from birth to 18 is spent outside of a school setting, but lets put the blame on teachers.
Nov 15, 2009 at 7:51 p.m.
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The blame belongs to our state legislature,governor.Chase federal dollars with a timline.Pass,sign into law, whether law is right,wrong,or indifferent to GET THE MONEY Wisconsinites.Someone(group) has to be held accountable for the huge payday,why not teachers,for you don't really expect legislature,governor to accept any accountability,do you??
Nov 15, 2009 at 7:27 p.m.
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Maglio is nuts. He doesn't think it is fair to judge them when they can't control the home life of the students. Is it fair for a manager of a buisiness to be judged when he can't control the outside life of his workers. Maybe one didn't get enough sleep or is an alcoholic. We all get judged at work on variables that we may not be able to control. As it is right now my wife and I are making teachers look good. Everynight we have to teach our daughter how to do the problems in her homework that should have been taught in class. These tests should have some merit but not a complete evaluation of teachers. How else do you determine if they are doing their jobs. My daughter in 5 yrs of school has already had 2 teachers that were so disorganized that I am suprised they made it to the school every day. Don't get me wrong I think teachers have a tough job and do not alway get the credit they deserve but if year after year their students dont score well on these tests it has to go back on the teacher.
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