Clergy couple: Pair work great together at Faith Lutheran
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Anne and David Andert are both clergy at the Faith Lutheran Church on Mineral Point Avenue. The couple has been giving services together for about seven years at various locations. Here they are pictured in front of the altar where they are temporarily giving services during the construction to upgrade the facility.
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Faith Lutheran Church is getting a new roof, along with some other improvements. The construction is scheduled for completion in late January and the church will be dedicated on March 21, 2010 and Bishop Bruce Burnside will be in attendance for the event.
JANESVILLE — Batman and Robin.
Astaire and Rogers.
Ruth and Boaz.
Good things tend to come in pairs.
When two vacancies opened at Janesville’s Faith Lutheran Church, the congregation saw an opportunity to hire its own dynamic duo.
Or, in church-speak, “to call a clergy couple.”
The day after Labor Day, the Revs. Anne and David Andert began their duties at Faith Lutheran Church. She is the senior pastor; he is the associate pastor.
How, exactly, does this partnership work?
Spend about 10 minutes with them, and you’ll see the kind of give and take that goes on between couples who respect each other as equals and love each other deeply.
They’re so comfortable in their roles they don’t see them as unique.
“For a couple to work together isn’t as unusual as you think,” David said. “Around here, there’s a long history of family farms. There’s mom and pop stores where husband and wife work together.”
Right.
But being a pastor is not exactly like being a shop owner.
Different gifts
Along with being on call 24/7, their job descriptions include everything from marriage counseling to financial management, spiritual direction to spiritual inspiration and settling arguments about the nature of coffee hour and the nature of grace.
“We have different gifts, and we complement each other well,” Anne said.
David described Anne as a “dreamer, a visionary.”
“She likes to see the big picture,” David said. “She’s a dreamer in the way the Bible says, ‘Dream dreams and see visions.’ She is good at planning in growth areas, seeing new opportunities.”
Anne said David has the ability to see beyond the numbers.
“David has fun with statistics and numbers,” Anne said. “That’s really important when you’re looking at budgets and trying to understand the long-term perspective instead of being overwhelmed by the immediate numbers.”
David said he also enjoys the “routine parts of the ministry, such as visitation and classes.”
“We both enjoy—and we both share responsibilities equally—for running the Sunday morning services,” David said.
And yes, their sermons are always different.
‘Love and respect’
“One of the fun things about being married to another pastor is that we have a theological reflection partner, so we can talk to each other throughout the week,” Anne said. “It’s kind of an on-going conversation.”
After a brief pause, she added, “That doesn’t mean we always agree with one another. But that’s the fun part because we know that we are free to disagree with each other because there is an underlying foundation of love and respect.”
That love and respect goes back a long way.
Early in their marriage, when Anne still was working as a critical care nurse, she accompanied David to a national church council. On the agenda was a “social statement on death and dying.”
Could death be “a friend and a relief” or was death always the enemy?
As a nurse, Anne had seen times when death could be a friend. David saw things from a biblical and theological perspective, and thought death was better described as an enemy.
“He was on one side of the issue, and I was on the other side of the issue,” Anne recalled. “As we were walking back to the hotel one evening, we were continuing the conversation about the debate on the floor, not realizing that the whole Minnesota delegation was behind us.”
They got on the elevator at the hotel, turned quietly to face the numbers—as elevator etiquette dictates—when a voice behind them said, “Oh, don’t stop talking now, keep going.”
That year, the council’s statement supported David’s views. A few years later, the council changed the statement to support Anne’s views.
“So we were both right,” David said with a laugh.
A second career
After leaving critical care nursing, Anne worked as a parish nurse at a church where David was the pastor.
At one point, she decided to pursue a master’s degree in pastoral care and counseling. But through her studies and talks with her teachers, she realized she was more called to the ministry of word and sacrament.
She went home and said, “David, I’m going to start seminary in the fall.”
“If I could, I would have done that differently; I would have had a conversation about it with him,” Anne said. “Thankfully, David understands call.”
The couple had three young children at the time, and it was an adjustment. She commuted several times a week to Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minn., about 90 minutes away.
“He was very supportive,” Anne said. “There were a number of second-career students, and there were only two of us that graduated with our marriages intact.”
Their kids were supportive, too.
After Anne was ordained, she was a supply preacher at a variety of churches.
“The girls were really wonderful,” David said. “Totally unbeknownst to us, the day before she was to preach, they decided who was going to church with Mom and who was going with Dad—because they didn’t want her to go on her own.”
Anne smiled at the memory.
“When the girls were little, it was the girls and I in the pew and Daddy was up front,” Anne said. “I would always lean over and together we would say a prayer for Daddy. They figured that mommy needed somebody to pray for her, too.”
Faith Lutheran Church has new face on the outside, too
New building, new pastors.
The congregation at Faith Lutheran Church, 2116 Mineral Point Road, Janesville, is going through a lot of changes in a hurry.
In September, its new pastors, David and Anne Andert, started work.
And for the past several months, the church has been undergoing a remodeling and renewing project.
The total cost of the project is $1.9 million.
“The church’s needs have changed,” explained Lanny Knickerbocker, president of the church council.
Electrical, heating and other operating systems needed an update. The bathrooms are bigger and handicapped accessible, and an elevator was installed to accommodate the needs of an aging congregation, Knickerbocker said.
Originally, the congregation planned a $3 million renovation that included a new sanctuary, but the economy and other factors made members reconsider.
“This is really like phase one of the plan,” Knickerbocker said.
The biggest change to the church is on the outside, where a pitched roof is being added to the building.
“It now looks like a church instead of a warehouse,” Knickerbocker said.
The church council is excited about the changes.
“We’ve called new pastors, and we’re getting the building ready for the next 50 years,” Knickerbocker said. “This is a real hopeful time.”
The church celebrated its 50th anniversary in 2006.
Dec 1, 2009 at 8:41 a.m.
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There's an uprising at the "homeless" blog:
http://gazettextra.com/news/2009/nov/22/...
Dec 1, 2009 at 7:53 a.m.
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Or Max maybe you are still around?
Nov 30, 2009 at 7:17 p.m.
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Really any christian would be welcome, or a muslim as well, any monotheist really, please feel free to chime in.
Nov 30, 2009 at 1:14 p.m.
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Or also very interested in your thoughs on if free will exists when the bible says believe or be tortured for eternity.
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Or lets put it this way - if I have a gun to someone's head and I say open the register - are they using free will to open the register? As a follow up - would it be rational to say my behavior was consistant with the idea that I love the person I am holding the gun on?
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Of course my gun story doesn't really capture the spirit of the bible's threat. Eternal torture is the obvious discrepency, but I would also have to threaten separation from family and friends as well.
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Lets take it one step further - does god love the souls in hell right now? because they sure as heck believe now if they are roasting, are they doomed to eternal torment - and does god still love them?
Nov 30, 2009 at 1:13 p.m.
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http://www.gazettextra.com/news/2009/nov...
Nov 30, 2009 at 1:11 p.m.
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Kleej, was at the other story earlier today.
http://www.gazettextra.com/
Nov 30, 2009 at 1:06 p.m.
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Or Matt- if you have some answers in regards to the multiple sets of ten commandments in Exodus?
Nov 30, 2009 at 8:40 a.m.
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Kleej - have you ever read the rest of the bible? Not just passages here and there but cover to cover as a tool to really understand the nature of the supernatural being you worship?
Nov 30, 2009 at 7:46 a.m.
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Another way believers sadly respond to reasonable comments and questions is to talk about drywall.
Nov 29, 2009 at 4:15 p.m.
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Another reason people hate poetry.
Nov 29, 2009 at 3:49 p.m.
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So oft in theologic wars,
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!
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by John Godfrey Saxe
Nov 29, 2009 at 11:24 a.m.
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One of the ways believers respond to reasonable comments and questions is to run away.
Nov 28, 2009 at 9:47 p.m.
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You referenced Mr. Eysters blog on this article, I chased no one down. Sorry for misunderstanding your comments were about health care and not the religious aspect of his blog. Since the vast majority of your posts are about religion (or your lack there of) and the fact that this comment section had to do with religion I guess I jumped to the wrong conclusion. My sincerest apologies.
Nov 28, 2009 at 12:42 p.m.
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Point proved, again.
Nov 28, 2009 at 12:41 p.m.
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Roger, GFan. Right after Air Israel. Your copilot is on loan from Jihad Airlines. It's a bad day to give up cyanide. Over...
Nov 28, 2009 at 10:17 a.m.
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Nice vampire comment on John E's blog about his brain surgery. Is that the blood in the water you were referring to? Classless.
Nov 28, 2009 at 10:15 a.m.
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Do we have clearance?
Nov 28, 2009 at 9:03 a.m.
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Roger, over..
Nov 28, 2009 at 8:40 a.m.
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Kleej, could you elaborate on that?
Nov 28, 2009 at 5:50 a.m.
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Surely you know that. Over...
Nov 27, 2009 at 1:02 p.m.
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I was referring to your 1:20 directive, DiGriz. We'll clink louder next time.
Nov 27, 2009 at 7:06 a.m.
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Mission accomplished as directed, DiGriz.
Nov 26, 2009 at 2:06 p.m.
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gazettefan, with God in my life, I'm never "off my game"
Nov 26, 2009 at 12:45 p.m.
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Thanks, DiGriz. You are dangerously close to revealing the secret of the FOTH truth-detector. Shhhhh...
To you and all of your brethren and sistren in service, my humble thanks and gratitude on this Thanksgiving Day, DiGriz! That clink you hear tonight over there will be a toast to you from over here.
Nov 26, 2009 at 10:34 a.m.
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Good, Kleej, now you're back on your game.
Nov 26, 2009 at 10:31 a.m.
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gazettefan, here's something you might have a little better chance of understanding:
The history of Salsa sauce originated from the Inca people. Salsa (combination of chilies, tomatoes and other spices) can be traced to the Aztecs, Mayans and Incas. The Spaniards first encountered tomatoes after their conquest of Mexico in 1519-1521, which marked the beginning of the history of Salsa sauce. Aztec lords combined tomatoes with chili peppers, ground squash seeds and consumed them mainly as a condiment served on turkey, venison, lobster, and fish. This combination was subsequently called salsa by Alonso de Molina in 1571.
Charles E. Erath of New Orleans was the first person in salsa sauce history who began manufacturing Extract of Louisiana Pepper, Red Hot Creole Peppersauce in 1916. A year later, La Victoria Foods started Salsa Brava in Los Angeles.
In Louisiana in 1923, Baumer Foods began manufacturing Crystal Hot Sauce and in 1928 Bruce Foods started making Original Louisiana Hot Sauce - two salsa sauce brands that are still in existence.
In 1941, Henry Tanklage formed La Victoria Sales Company to market a new La Victoria salsa line. He introduced red and green taco, and enchilada sauces - the first of salsa hot sauces in US. He took over the entire La Victoria operation in 1946, which manufactures ten different hot sauces now covering the entire salsa spectrum, including Green Chili Salsa and Red Salsa Jalapeña.
According to the hot sauce history, salsa manufacturing in Texas began in 1947 with David and Margaret Pace and their picante sauce. In 1952, La Victoria Foods introduced the first commercial taco sauce in US and in 1955, La Preferida launched a line of salsas.
In 1975, Patti Swidler of Arizona launched Desert Rose Salsa. Four years later, in Austin (Texas), Dan Jardine began producing Jardine's commercial salsa, giving Austin the reputation in the history of Salsa Sauce as the hot sauce capital of America. Another Texas company, the El Paso Chili Company, was started in 1980 by Norma and W. Park Kerr. In 1986, Miguel's Stowe Away in Vermont launched a salsa line and in April, 1986, Sauces & Salsas Ltd. began manufacturing the Montezuma brand of hot pepper sauces and salsas in Ohio.
Nov 26, 2009 at 10 a.m.
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Kleej, according to what you said below -living life according to Jesus' teachings- then you are Torah observant. Would you mind discussing what that's like?
Nov 26, 2009 at 9:42 a.m.
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prounion, I went down a path earlier in life which was a one way ticket to nowhere. Nobody forcedfed anything to me, I searched my soul and it lead me right to where I needed to be and it's transformed my life. I'm not into jumping onboard or saving myself, I'm into the "journey" of learning everyday of my life. The journey with Jesus isn't about "I've arrived", it's about leading by example as Jesus did, knowing I'll mess up just as the Bible said I would. It's about learning, applying, messing up and failing forward. If you're asking if I choose to live by the Ten Commandments because God commands it, I'd say this, when I started my journey, YES. It was the only moral compass I had at that time. Do I do it live by these commandments just for God now? NO. I live it because the truth set me free and I know by simply living my life around those principles, everything else just falls in place with my creator. Living by Jesus' example is my way of thanking God for the blessings I've been given. I choose not to ignore those things.
Nov 26, 2009 at 9:41 a.m.
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Religion has exclusive exemption from such characterizations as "nuts", "insane", "irrational", etc. You know that, GFan. Just remember to always flop the definitions of "true" and "false" re: religion but never for anything else in the universe. You'll be golden!
Nov 26, 2009 at 9:34 a.m.
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I wonder if there will be Thanksgiving services at the Our Sacred and Agonizing Lady of the Church of the Red Door Bar and Grill.
I hear the Eucharist of beer and pretzels is not to be missed.
Nov 26, 2009 at 9:24 a.m.
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Yes, I get it, foolonthehill, Kleej and Matthew.... are nuts, right?
Nov 26, 2009 at 9:11 a.m.
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I'll summarize this so even your little pea-brains are able to grasp it, GFan and Prounion:
Truth is that which cannot be proven, cannot be sensed and cannot measured by any known scientific instrument. Only when something is able to defy and contradict all known laws of the universe can that something be considered "truth". Furthermore, any person who doesn't accept such truth by structuring their existence around that which cannot be seen, heard, touched, tasted, smelled or measured; which does not occupy space or time; which defies every known law of physics, then such person is in DENIAL. Reality is nothing. The translated words of ancient Middle-easterners is everything.
In short, "truth" is only that which can never be proven logically true by any known method buy but can always be proven logically false by every known method. In other words, TRUE =/= TRUE, TRUE = FALSE; FALSE =/= FALSE; FALSE = TRUE. Those who do not accept the preceding as truth are in denial.
So, do you knuckleheads finally get it now?
;~)
Nov 26, 2009 at 8:54 a.m.
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I don't mean to offend - can't we just have a conversation about what you believe? Its just follow up questions based on what you say - please answer, I do not mean to make you angry.
Nov 26, 2009 at 8:48 a.m.
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Matt - Kleej - are they not valid questions? Or do you agree with Max that god did not give me that "something" that allows me to ignore the implications of what you are saying?
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Kleej is that what you are doing? Are you jumping on board just in case?
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If so that doesn't seem like a worthy effort for the creator of everything. It would seem that a careful study of his book - the bible - would be warranted, but you two seem to limit yourself to "the ten commandments" when there are many many more than just those special ten in Exodus alone. But you guys don't talk about that either - just live by the ten you were told to live by? Or do you use the book god gave you to learn directly from him? It seems not.
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Also and I don't mean to sound insulting - living by the ten commandments is relatively easy, most people do it, even if they have never picked up a bible.
Nov 26, 2009 at 12:09 a.m.
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kleej~ you already made it simple to understand when you said "God's word is final" that's all people need to know. Now it's a matter of going out and living our lives in accordance with his "commandments".
Nov 25, 2009 at 11:22 p.m.
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gazettefan, possibly. However, I think even drywall is too complex for you guys. I'll try and simplify things so even you can understand it from now on.
Nov 25, 2009 at 10:32 p.m.
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Great post, prounion, I think Kleej is gunna go back to telling us about drywall.
Nov 25, 2009 at 7:59 p.m.
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Right cause god want those that are frightened of him and are hedging their bets that he might be real? Think that thru brother.
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God cannot love you and then say if you don't love him back he will torture you for eternity, can he?
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Not to mention the other religions that you have dissed in the hopes that yours in the true god - for instance if Allah is real - you have failed to "jump onboard" and will be tortured for endless eons along with me.
Nov 25, 2009 at 7:44 p.m.
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prounion, do what you feel. Probably best to jump onboard now than take your chances with your future eternity.
Nov 25, 2009 at 6:41 p.m.
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DiGriz, true about that cross business.
Where's maxdetail? Anybody see him? Is he on his way to my house?
Nov 25, 2009 at 5:40 p.m.
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Max don't go - I am interested in the "something" god granted you but not me. Should I be looking at that something in light of Genesis three that you mentioned where god was angry at the bite of the apple from the tree of knowledge? All the death that spawned from that one apple. Are you closer to the pre-apple Adam and Eve than I am?
Nov 25, 2009 at 3:41 p.m.
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Just wanted to talk about the bible with your Kleej.
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By free choice do you mean the choice to believe or be tortured for eternity?
Nov 25, 2009 at 3:31 p.m.
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DiGriz,
You must be from the planet Kolob. The fact that you went to school with Marie Osmond gave it away.
Nov 25, 2009 at 3:25 p.m.
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No need to have conversation about the Ten Commandments or the Bible because all that needs to be said is already said..God's word is final. You can make the choice to not live by God's word now, that's your choice, but, you will answer to him later. Doesn't matter what you say or how you all try to put your own spin on the truth, at the end of the day, it's still the truth. It's as simple as that. The fact that you don't buy into this doesn't make the ten commandments any less relevent either as each commandment is a great and worthy principle to base your daily actions around. Which is why our forefathers had the intellect to found this great country around those principles. Go into denial, go into whatever "soapbox" you can dream up, it's your choice. You should really appreciate that about God. He gives everyone freewill so they can make their own choices here on Earth. He's so great that he made it so you don't even have to make a choice, because even if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. You just have to live with your choices. Adios! Peace! and God bless you!
Nov 25, 2009 at 2:58 p.m.
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DiGriz~ your twisted post regarding "aliens" speaks volumes as to the past posts you've had. I was starting to wonder how a "human being" can be so far off course with their logic. It's getting clearer by the post! Thanks for that.
Nov 25, 2009 at 2:02 p.m.
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maxdetail, you weren't supposed to just look at the gospels of Mark and Luke again, you were supposed to comment on why they are radically different.
Don't worry about "fresh and new" and "source" (you've already proven that your fist response to opposition is hostility). Let's have your thoughts on why the accounts of Jesus' death are so different in Mark and Luke. You are the source now, use your head. If your thought processes seem to have come to a halt, resist that feeling and continue to think.
Let's say you can remove your "christianity" from the problem right now. And your life depended on giving the correct answer to problem stated below:
A man was tortured and nailed to a wooden cross and you are given two accounts of the event. One account has him calm and collected. The other account has him suffering terribly much as anyone would expect a man to respond to such an ordeal -and this account pre-dates the account that has the man calm and collected.
Now your life depends on giving the correct answer:
Which account is true? which account would you bet your life on? The "calm and collected" account or the pre-dative "terribly tortured" account?
Remember, we are not talking about Jesus right now, we are talking only about a man.
Nov 25, 2009 at 1:52 p.m.
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Umm Kleej, I am not really interested in violins, that why I post on this article and not on the many others that the Gazette has provided. Sorry if I offended you I thought we were having a conversation about the ten commandments?
Nov 25, 2009 at 1:47 p.m.
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gazettefan, perhaps you and prounion could enlighten the nation on that last post and share your lifechanging wisdom with a nation in such need of your profound and life enhancing information..........
Nov 25, 2009 at 1:44 p.m.
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prounion, why don't you put yourself in the middle of a topic that you even have a smidgen or a hint of quality input on?? Like this for instance:
The violin -----
Stringed instruments first were recorded in Europe in the medieval ages. By “stringed” we refer to instruments played with a bow. This instrument was the "fiddle" of the minne-singers. But it didn’t have much in common with a violin. It was in the 15th century when, slowly, the family of gambs and violins developed.
In the times of the renaissance, which had a large impact on all the arts, not least in the construction of instruments. The violin as it is known nowadays was built in the early 16th century. In this climate the viola and the cello also emerged.
Everything that is explained about the violin and its structures can be referred to the whole family of stringed instruments. This group of instruments has been developed in order to satisfy new ideas of sounds that emerged in these times in Italy. Gradually, it took the place of the gambs and violas that preceded them.
It was with the Cremonese makers working in this environment that the violin and its family reached its zenith, and although technical innovations have been applied through time, the ground plan and its basic form are still used today.
In Italy, which escaped the war of thirty years, violin making reached an enormous upswing. Andrea Amati lived in Cremona between 1535 and 1611; he became the founder of the world’s most famous school of violin-making. It is not a certain institute, which is meant but a special local characterisation of all different centres of violinmaking; the art of painting has known a similar effect. So, there are for instance the school of Brescia, of Cremona, of Milan, but also the school of Naples and many more.
Afterwards, violin making expounded over the whole continent of Europe. But it was Cremona that was home to the most famous of all violin makers: The families Amati and Guarneri, Antonio Stradivari, the families Ruggeri and Bergonzi. For more than 150 years, violins made by Stradivari and Guarneri have been the most desired concert instruments.
Nov 25, 2009 at 1:38 p.m.
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In fact one of the "other" ten commandments prevents seething a kid in its mother's milk, and I am tempted to do that every day.
Nov 25, 2009 at 1:35 p.m.
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Welcome back Kleej - curious - there were the original set Moses had, they broke, then there was the follow up version that stuck, but the commandments were different - did that strike you as odd?
Nov 25, 2009 at 1:33 p.m.
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Max god has done "something" to the believer so that they can commit to the truths regarding Christ. Whats you take on me burning in hell forever because god did not do that "something" for me?
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Yes the Numbers passage - I reposted my follow up to your explanation of the post. God orders the killing of 32,000 children - not sure what historical backdrop would apply there - that was my original question about the passage. Especially since god is timeless, its not like he would just go with the times right?
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Are you sure it pivots on G-3:15 that seems to indicate god's punishment for man being in conflict with women.
Nov 25, 2009 at 1:24 p.m.
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prounion, which is why the TEN COMMANDMENTS were put in stone. Because God took into account that humans weren't capable of comprehending the bible in it's truest form. Just for the record, you're human, gazettefan is human (I think), I'm human, maxdetail is human, Muslim's are human, athiests are human, agnostics are human, Brett Favre is human, Charles Darwin is human, Donny Osmond is human, Don_Diego is human, Walter Cronkite "was" human, Katherine Idzerda is human, the world is made up of humans, thus, the need to break it down to the irreducible minimum so all humans can understand it....THE TEN COMMANDMENTS principles that we should all live by, whether we're Christian, Muslim, Hindu, or simply a piece of dust in the wind. Principles are timeless. They don't change. What's happening in the world around us is what happens when timeless principles are tampered with.
Nov 25, 2009 at 1:16 p.m.
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Prounion, context is everything. You speak like the scripture is a collection unsorted, haphazard texts without theme and genre. There is an underlying theme that unifies the Bible. I don't shy away from any of the texts but I don't tear them from their contexts either. Their is a historical backdrop to the narrative passages, there is a systematic theme to the doctrinal passages. The entire Bible is a book of fall and redemption. The whole Bible pivots on Genesis 3:15. You continue to ignore the fact that the Bible contains many different genres of literature. I answered one of the Numbers passages in that Stupek Amendment thread (I can't remember which one now).
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Returning to that which divides us let me say this: You approach God (and I was once like you) as if God is the conclusion of a syllogism, or the inference of scientific fact or if we dig philosophically we will find or not find God. This approach makes you the final judge and therefore using your method you will never find God because you won't allow a final judge besides you.
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The believer has been 'quickened' and I'm sorry, it's the best word I can think of, but God has done something in the believer that becomes a cognitive commitment to the truths regarding Christ. The believer cannot step into the place of judge. We can argue forever over evidences but unless you recognize a judge higher than yourself then you will never see a need for God.
Nov 25, 2009 at 12:55 p.m.
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Max at its root I see christianity as not based in reality. Thats why each individual christian has a different belief. Because christianity cannot be grounded out by reality, or the bible with its many interpretations each christian is wildly different depending on what they want to be true.
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For instance you mention that christianity is all about love. To do that you need to emphasize certain biblical passages, and de-emphasize others. You would also need to come up with some sort of rationalization for why god would create everything, then torture for eternity certain elements of that creation.
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What I am most interested in speaking with you about though is what happens in your mind when you hit that point where you must realize that the biblical passage we are discussing could not possibly be written by the same loving god you have envisioned in your mind. It seems that the christians react to that in one of two ways, they retract back and stop posting, opr they blame us for asking a follow up question. Could you speak to that?
Nov 25, 2009 at 12:44 p.m.
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G-fan, I was a Psych and Bible major in college and I've been studying ever since (and my goodness I'm getting old) but I have never seen the fresh, new information that you're bringing to the table. Give me your source please.
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I've already done what you've asked, now I just need your source.
Nov 25, 2009 at 12:37 p.m.
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gazettefan, DID YOU KNOW..........
Trigonometry is a branch of applied mathematics concerned with the relationship between angles and their sides and the calculations based on them. First developed as a branch of geometry focusing on triangles during the third century B.C., trigonometry was used extensively for astronomical measurements. The major trigonometric functions, including sine, cosine, and tangent, were first defined as ratios of sides in a right triangle. Since trigonometric functions are intrinsically related, they can be used to determine the dimensions of any triangle given limited information. In the eighteenth century, the definitions of trigonometric functions were broadened by being defined as points on a unit circle. This allowed the development of graphs of functions related to the angles they represent which were periodic. Today, using the periodic nature of trigonometric functions, mathematicians and scientists have developed mathematical models to predict many natural periodic phenomena.
The word trigonometry stems from the Greek words trigonon, which means triangle, and metrein, which means to measure. It began as a branch of geometry and was utilized extensively by early Greek mathematicians to determine unknown distances. The most notable examples are the use by Aristarchus (310-250 B.C.) to determine the distance to the Moon and Sun, and by Eratosthenes (c. 276-195 B.C.) to calculate the Earth's circumference. The general principles of trigonometry were formulated by the Greek astronomer, Hipparchus of Nicaea (active 162-127 B.C.), who is generally credited as the founder of trigonometry. His ideas were worked out by Ptolemy of Alexandria (c. 90-168 A.D.), who used them to develop the influential Ptolemaic theory of astronomy. Much of the information we know about the work of Hipparchus and Ptolemy comes from Ptolemy's compendium The Almagest written around 150.
Nov 25, 2009 at 12:25 p.m.
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OK, you two, you can start with reading your bible. The christian bible includes the Old Testament -the Hebrew Bible. Then you can ask yourselves why Mark and Luke give contradictory accounts of the torture and death of Jesus.
And don't clutter up the issue with the folderol that the gospels are synoptic. They are different books influenced by the time and place in which they were written.
Nov 25, 2009 at 12:18 p.m.
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"This is word of Gazettefan" - "Amen"
Actually I find this interesting. Any backup to your claims or do we need to believe you alone?
Nov 25, 2009 at 12:18 p.m.
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Gazettefan, can I have the source of these golden nuggets you're squeezing out (or twinkies). I want to see who you are putting your faith in.
Nov 25, 2009 at 11:54 a.m.
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Jesus was a Palestinian rabbinical Jew who taught the Hebrew Bible -the Old Testament -including the Torah. He wrongly taught that there would be a new kingdom on earth (in repulsion to the Romans) in his lifetime or the lifetime of his followers. Though he did tell people that they should prepare for the new kingdom, he did not preach salvation or that salvation would come from believing in him as a god.
The christ was invented later by anti-Jewish people who rejected and demonized the Old Testament (the Hebrew Bible). Other anti-Jewish people later re-shaped the meaning of Old Testament scripture to render it as prophetic re: christ (not Jesus). An example of this false rendering is the claim that Jesus was born in Bethlehem. These re-shaped meanings and teachings are antithetical to what Jesus actually preached and taught about the Old Testament and himself.
Nov 25, 2009 at 11:23 a.m.
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Pro, we define Christianity in two different ways and so we will always be talking past each other.
You see Christianity as a man made movement, a moral code, a philosophy and even a political movement. Of course you are not wrong to do that, men have interpreted the Gospel in many ways and many were unhealthy. There are Christians who are practical deists. I believe the term being used today is therapeutic moralistic deism. That's a pretty good summary of where the American main line church has moved. I'm not happy about it.
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The church has certainly been political with some very sad results.
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I define Christianity as a system of belief based on the teachings of Jesus Christ. I define the Gospel as God acting in history to make provision for man's sin by sending Jesus Christ into the world to save sinners. It was an expression of love, grace and mercy.
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Both these definitions are outside of the behavior of the individual believer. Those who think that Christianity is moralism are destined for great disappointment.
Nov 25, 2009 at 10:47 a.m.
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You are right Max the list is a generalization, lumping all christians into groups. Some of the bullet points apply to some christians but not others, I am interested in which bullet points apply to you?
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Clearly when I list bullet points supported by the Catholic church, not all catholics are Wack Jobs right?
Nov 25, 2009 at 10:40 a.m.
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Well, DrTalk has hightailed it on out of here and Mutt and Jeff are putting up drywall and maxdetail is offering pretensions of a medication adjustment.
Onward christian soldiers.
maxdetail, if you start calling christians non-christians because of their behavior then there won't be any christians left. And that's the point, it's all subjective: chiristianity doesn't really show itself in behavior: it's all a narcissistic conceit.
Nov 25, 2009 at 10:34 a.m.
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Pro, thanks, and I agree with number 1, number two is a problem simply because you are taking incidents and then generalizing them to all Christians when in your heart, you know better. You can't site crimes committed by whackjobs and then saddle a whole people with them.
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I'm not insulted personally, I'm a name caller like you, but I'm insulted for the Christians I know and love who would have nothing to do with the abhorrent behaviors you mention. You are being prejudiced, bigoted by making such generalizations. No, you're NOT a bigot but making those kinds of associations is a bigoted argument designed to provoke, not discover.
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G-fan. Take an ice bath and a couple Ibuprophens, that fever is getting too high for comfort.
Nov 25, 2009 at 10:31 a.m.
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Clients love the versatility of concrete and the ability to coordinate with their décor. I’ve had clients bring in all sorts of items to color match: fabric, tile, paint chips, even a wooden pear and a burned-down candle.
Here is a kitchen in bright, glossy blue to match handmade Mexican tiles. The homeowner loved bright yellow and blue.
Concrete can be made in wild colors. Here is a kitchen done in chartreuse green with aquamarine glass chips. This client had an interior designer who convinced her to tone down this kitchen. The client wanted turquoise cabinets!
To the right is a bathroom in cranberry red. The kitchen and bath designer chose this color for visual impact in a clean, contemporary setting.
These colors weren’t necessarily to my taste, but the clients loved them. However, these bright colors are a rarity.
By far the most popular color is natural gray concrete. Light cool gray, dark charcoal gray, black, tan and soft sage green are all close seconds. I have done more countertops than I can count in those colors. Here (below left) is a very nice example of a simple bathroom vanity in a very traditional home.
Clients love to see all the color possibilities. When they walk into my showroom, they immediately “ooh and aah” over the rainbow of colors on my sample racks.
But then they invariably pick up the natural gray concrete sample and proclaim, “This is beautiful!” And concrete is beautiful, no matter what color.
Nov 25, 2009 at 10:11 a.m.
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Thanks for thinking of me Max and its a valid question.
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You are correct to draw a comparison between your level of belief in the FSM and my level of belief in your god, that is absolutly the case, you know exactly how I feel about Jesus when you think about your feelings for the FSM.
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So why do I bother? I think there are at least two reasons:
1. Its a kind of hobby, I learn a great deal about the bible and about how believers think, its fun.
2. Imagine if the believers in the FSM, were engaging in the following activities:
- Trying to teach FSM creationism in schools.
- Blowing up buildings, killing, ect.
- Teaching people that condoms have holes that spread the AIDS virus to try to prevent condom use.
- Actively attempting to hinder scientific research because they think that FSM is concerned about stem cells.
- Damaging children's mental well being with stories of eternal damnation if they fail to believe in the FSM.
- Hindering the ability of people to weigh evidence in a logical way by teaching them that the bible has the correct creation story as written and every field of science is bogus.
- Actively preventing comprehensive sex ed in schools, resulting in higher teen pregancy, abortion rates, and std's because FSM doesn't want them to have sex outside of marriage.
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If FSM followers were doing all of that then I would try to make them wake up to the fact that FSM is no more real than Santa as well.
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I mean no insult Max, we should be able to share our views honestly and openly and support them with fact and/or biblical verses, right?
Nov 25, 2009 at 10:08 a.m.
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maxdetail, you're a liar: you never really discussed scripture and gospel here.
And you have jumped the gun on chickens being allowed in Janesville.
Nov 25, 2009 at 10:03 a.m.
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The first gospel was "Mark" and he never stated that Jesus was born in Bethlehem. "Matthew's" (not the drywaller) and "Luke's" gospels came later and they depended on Mark for much of what's in their gospels.
The "census" that was supposed to be the reason for going to Bethlehem is a fiction. There is no historical evidence of it. People were supposed to go to their place of ancestry a thousand years before! Ridiculous!
Nov 25, 2009 at 9:55 a.m.
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It wouldn't but after we have a discussion it usually is followed by a weekend of God-hating sniping until you convince another well intentioned soul to have another "serious" discussion.
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We were having an interesting discussion a couple weeks ago but in the down time, the anti-christians who never seem to leave this site just keep right on. It kills the serious discourse that could take place.
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I've already ranted enough about the pattern of these endless arguments. I still don't understand why you firmly believe that God does not exist and then commit to a ceaseless attack against nothing. If He really doesn't exist then it shouldn't matter to you. The flying spaghetti monster doesn't matter to me. (Although I saw a Flying Spaghetti Monster bumper sticker today and I thought of you.)
Nov 25, 2009 at 9:46 a.m.
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I can't come today G-fan, I've got to work and then go home and brine my turkey.
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Before we get together, answer a few questions for me if you have the time:
1. How tall are you?
2. Can you bench press your weight?
3. How many inches around your biceps?
4. Do your eye brows meet in the middle?
Nov 25, 2009 at 9:46 a.m.
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Where would it be blasphemy to discuss the meaning of verses in the bible?
Nov 25, 2009 at 9:42 a.m.
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Pro, it's tempting but you know these discussions always end up in ridicule and name calling, more importantly, it sets up another round of blasphemy. I don't mind the name calling, it's fun, but the blasphemy really does discourage me. It's my achilles heel. I promise I'll never come back and then, like you, I can't resist one more dig.
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As far as us being friends, well, in the real world we even might be. (I have this fear that G-fan is really the alter ego of my pastor's wife or some crazy thing like that.)
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Nah, this is fun and cheap entertainment but a lousy place for serious debate. Not going to try that again. Besides, I think G-fan wants to punch me in the nose. I think I might really be getting to him.
Nov 25, 2009 at 9:23 a.m.
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kleej~ are you sure drywall is best for the ceiling?? According to the old testament in drywalling, a drop ceiling is strictly recommended. Besides that, I know everything and I say Jesus was born in Nazareth. (NOT) I will come into this blog site and debate you on this subject everyday of my life if that's what it takes to prove to the world how wise I am.
Nov 25, 2009 at 9:16 a.m.
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maxdetail, you got the address. Come over today, coward.
Jesus of Nazareth was born in Nazareth, that's why he's called Jesus of Nazareth. The Bethlehem birth is a contrivance to conform with the Old Testament Micah prophecy that a descendant of King David would be born there.
Nov 25, 2009 at 9:16 a.m.
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Drywalling a ceiling:
1. Put on the safety goggles and go to work. Remove the old ceiling tiles and pull out any old nails. Scrape off any bumps of old adhesive using a utility knife and hammer.
2. Remove any ceiling-mounted light fixtures. Turn the power off first, and check the fixture with a voltage detector to make sure it's off.
3. Use the long straightedge to mark rows on the drywall for the screws. Fit the first piece of drywall in the drywall lift and hoist it into place. Start in the corner and work your way out.
4. Attach the drywall using drywall screws and a power drill. Space the screws about 6 to 8-inches apart. Since this is a shiplap ceiling, the screws can be attached anywhere. Otherwise, they would have to go into the center of the ceiling joists. Continue until all the drywall is installed.
5. Now it's time to apply the mud. Open up a bucket of drywall mud and mix it using the mud masher. The mud masher is important as it mixes the mud without creating any air bubbles. You do not want air bubbles in your mud.
6. Load up a tray with mud and whip it some more with the drywall knife until it's nice and soft. Start filling in the screw holes first.
7. Next start on the seams. Place a thick layer of mud on a seam, then center a piece of drywall tape along the seam. Cover the tape with a little more mud and smooth it out with your drywall knife.
8. Take a break until the drywall mud is completely dry, then come back and work down rough areas using sponges, scrubbers and drywall knives.
9. The amount of sanding you'll need to do depends on the type of ceiling treatment you're using. You'll need to sand less if you're going to apply a textured treatment.
Nov 25, 2009 at 9:12 a.m.
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Max lets be friends - You can do better than just rant that we are crazy. Lets continue our discussion regarding Numbers 31 where Moses/god orders the slaughter of thousands of children and the slavery of any virgin women. Here was my reply to your the interpretation of a biblical scholar that you posted:
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Max nice posts, lets look at it.
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First off - the author already tries to say that anyone who disagrees with you hates god. Come on we can't take a look at this behavior, otherwise we are evil?
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Numbers goes on to say that 32,000 virgin females were spared. Assuming the male to female ratio was equal - a slaughter of 32,000 young boys and an unknown number of adult women were slaughtered.
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The author says: The women and children were not kept for sinful purposes, but for slaves, a custom every where practiced in former times, as to captives.
There are many passages that outline how one can pick out a captive if she is good looking and the rules of forcing that captive to be one's wife - or how to kidnap a female from another village and do the same. The leap to wanting to keep the young virgins free of idolatry is a big one, and not supported by the text.
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40 16,000 people, of which the tribute for the LORD was 32. What do you think happened to the 32? I guess just given to the preist?
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objectors only prove their dislike to God, and their love to his enemies - Really? 32,000 kids slaughtered and if we stand up and say anything we don't like god? This is really the book where your morals come from?
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Slavery was the custom back then so it was ok. I think if the bible were really the chonlicles of a divine perfect all powerful being he would be better than just going with the customs of the times. Jesus doesn't even rise above the custom of slavery.
Nov 25, 2009 at 9:09 a.m.
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Thanks for the address G-fan, I'll bring the beer, you buy some jalepeño stuffed olives. Let's do it after the holiday.
Nov 25, 2009 at 9:06 a.m.
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Hey G-fan, actually when you and Don Diablo brought up that scripture regarding Paul's command against women having authority over men in a church, I thought you were on to something.
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I wouldn't touch that discussion here with a 10 foot cattle prod, but I was hoping some other church goer might. Push that question some more. That's pertinent to the topic of the article.
Nov 25, 2009 at 8:58 a.m.
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maxdetail, I just emailed my home address to you, why don't you stop over.
Nov 25, 2009 at 8:56 a.m.
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Ouch, you're overly touchy today. Get away from the computer and go outside and play with the other kids. Go see Twilight again.
Nov 25, 2009 at 8:43 a.m.
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maxdetail, your hallucinatory psychotic fixation on me is duly noted; so is your inability to engage in reasonable dialogue about scripture and belief.
As for my IP address, why don't you find it out if your so worried about me? you paranoid coward.
Nov 25, 2009 at 8:16 a.m.
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Good morning Pro, yeah I guess we could put your name into my last post too. Maybe we can get a wager going as to which of you snap first. Please don't take it personally just because I think you have the makings of a domestic terrorist.
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I AM grateful that you have your catharsis here and that you're not burning churches down. {You aren't, are you?}
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It's the holiday season buddy, take some time off from this daily fanatical carping. Learn to appreciate what you have and start attacking the first amendment fresh in the new year, if you still feel compelled.
Nov 25, 2009 at 7:49 a.m.
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Max thats an old saw your using - the problem is with the other person - they are crazy. Funny thing is you do sometimes engage in actual discussion and as soon as you hit a point where people typically realize they were wrong and learn - then the troll calling starts. If you have a mighty personal god on your side you should be able to field a decent arguement for his existance.
Nov 25, 2009 at 7:10 a.m.
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The thing I find most troubling about your posts Gazettefan is not they they are disjointed, not connected to any serious scholarship, emotional bursts of bigotry toward a group, or arbitrary fabrications; it's that they are the kinds of things that crime scene investigators find scrawled on the walls of whack jobs that went bonkers and started shooting innocent people.
You are obsessed with a particular group, you generalize about them, you pick obscure verses and assign bizarre interpretations to each member of the group, you ignore reason and you are verbally abusive every day. I do hope somebody is keeping an eye on you and your IP address. There is a frightening imbalance being evidenced here. Maybe what you have is something deeper than just a difference in worldview. Get help, oh, and Happy Thanksgiving.
Nov 24, 2009 at 4:08 p.m.
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Dr.Talk, Jesus was born in Nazareth. Biblical scribes support this. The "census" you mentioned never happened and is a laughable idea given the pointlessness and logistics of it all -return to the place of your ancestors?! c'mon.
The "census" and the claim that Jesus was born in Bethlehem (so as to link Jesus with David) were contrivances for the purpose of "conforming" Jesus' life to the unfulfilled Old Testament prophecy of a messiah.
Nov 24, 2009 at 2:36 p.m.
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gazettefan,
Jesus was born in Bethlehem. Joseph and Mary were from Nazareth but they went to Bethlehem because of a census order by Ceasar. The family fled to Egypt to to protect Jesus from Herod's order to kill males 2 years and younger. After Herod died, Joseph, Mary, and Jesus returned to Nazareth where Jesus spent the majority of his childhood.
Nov 24, 2009 at 12:25 p.m.
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Newsflash: Jesus was born in Nazareth.
Nov 24, 2009 at 12:21 p.m.
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"While You Were Sleeping" by: Casting Crowns
Oh little town of Bethlehem
Looks like another silent night
Above your deep and dreamless sleep
A giant star lights up the sky
And while you're lying in the dark
There shines an everlasting light
For the King has left His throne
And is sleeping in a manger tonight...Oh Bethlehem, what you have missed while you were sleeping
For God became a man
And stepped into your world today
Oh Bethlehem, you will go down in history
As a city with no room for its King
While you were sleeping
While you were sleeping
Oh little town of Jerusalem
Looks like another silent night
The Father gave His only Son
The Way, the Truth, the Life had come
But there was no room for Him in the world He came to save
Jerusalem, what you have missed while you were sleeping
The Savior of the world is dying on your cross today
Jerusalem, you will go down in history
As a city with no room for its King
While you were sleeping
While you were sleeping
United States of America
Looks like another silent night
As we're sung to sleep by philosophies
That save the trees and kill the children
And while we're lying in the dark
There's a shout heard 'cross the eastern sky
For the Bridegroom has returned
And has carried His bride away in the night
America, what will we miss while we are sleeping
Will Jesus come again
And leave us slumbering where we lay
America, will we go down in history
As a nation with no room for its King
Will we be sleeping
United States of America
Looks like another silent night
Nov 24, 2009 at 12:16 p.m.
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Nope, no better over on this "Chanel".
Nov 24, 2009 at 12:15 p.m.
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Callsit - I agree - that post should not have been removed - by removing it the context for my excellent "Trolls of the World Unite!" post went missing as well.
Nov 24, 2009 at 12:04 p.m.
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During a 43-year Hollywood career that spanned the development of the motion picture medium as a modern American art, Walter Elias Disney, a modern Aesop, established himself and his product as a genuine part of Americana. David Low, the late British political cartoonist, called Disney "the most significant figure in graphic arts since Leonardo."
A pioneer and innovator and the possessor of one of the most fertile imaginations the world has ever known, Walt Disney, along with members of his staff, received more than 950 honors and citations from every nation in the world, including 48 Academy Awards® and seven Emmys® in his lifetime. Walt Disney's personal awards included honorary degrees from Harvard, Yale, the University of Southern California, and UCLA; the Presidential Medal of Freedom; France's Legion of Honor and Officer d'Academie decorations; Thailand's Order of the Crown; Brazil's Order of the Southern Cross; Mexico's Order of the Aztec Eagle; and the Showman of the World Award from the National Association of Theatre Owners.
The creator of Mickey Mouse and founder of the Disneyland® and Walt Disney World® Theme Parks was born in Chicago, Illinois, on December 5, 1901. His father, Elias Disney, was Irish-Canadian. His mother, Flora Call Disney, was of German-American descent. Walt was one of five children, four boys and a girl.
Nov 24, 2009 at 11:49 a.m.
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My comment saying digriz has become a run of the mill, garden variety troll has been removed? Give me a break.
Nov 24, 2009 at 10:40 a.m.
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It sounds like the apostle Paul was a member of the Taliban. Isn't that what they believe?
Nov 24, 2009 at 10:38 a.m.
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GFan is so money!
Nov 24, 2009 at 10:09 a.m.
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DonDiego's post reveals that the ministry in the above story is operating in contradiction to scripture -scripture being the 'inspired word of god'.
The positive to be taken from this is that the stamp of humanity that accounts for the above ministry mirrors that religion and the concept of god and therefore scripture are human creations.
Nov 24, 2009 at 8:59 a.m.
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1 Tim 2:8-11 — I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array; But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I [Paul, as an Apostle of Jesus Christ, with full authority of one inspired by God] suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1 Cor 14:33b-35,37 — As in all churches of the saints. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
The word of the lord is clear on this matter. Modern man has skewed the word of the one and only god to fit his new morals. Woman- get ye back to the kitchen and fetch me a beer.
Nov 24, 2009 at 8:49 a.m.
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Here we go again...another thread for the anti-christs to spew their redirect. It never ends. Fish ain't bitin' anymore.
Nov 24, 2009 at 8:17 a.m.
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For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
—2 Corinthians 12:10
Trolls of the world - unite!
Nov 24, 2009 at 8:05 a.m.
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Congratulations to the obviously loving couple. May God bless your ministry and lead many to your congregation. IT seems like you have a lot to teach.
Nov 24, 2009 at 8:04 a.m.
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Whether or not you believe with this couple's religious conviction, they are deserving of this story at least as much as if it were new Head Of Girl Scouts or something similar. WOuld you object to a story about that? Why even comment if you are going to be negative? YOu can just click your back button and pretend you never read the story, instead of trying to hurt or upset people... Simply unbelievable, especially when you would make no comments if they weren't religious- or, Christian.
Nov 24, 2009 at 7:58 a.m.
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biggirl- I think that..umm..Faith Lutheran has a woman minister. :) Actually there are at least a couple in town that do. Last I knew, Asbury and Mt. Zion both did. Not sure about the rest, but would not be surprised to see at least one more.
I know what you mean about the traditional role served by the minister's wife and it would be interesting to see if what happens when the wife IS the minister. Does the husband take on some of the duties that the MW did?
Nov 24, 2009 at 7:56 a.m.
Nov 24, 2009 at 7:38 a.m.
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I don't mind these stories at all, but I do want to note that the ministers wife has traditionally done quite a lot for churches. A story about a female minister that considers the role her husband may or may not play would be interesting. Does Janesville have any female ministers?
Nov 24, 2009 at 7:02 a.m.
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I can hardly wait for the usual Christian Bashers to crawl out and turn this into there usual 675 post circus.. sigh..
Nov 24, 2009 at 7 a.m.
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Why can't we keep Napalm out of the media?
Nov 24, 2009 at 5:02 a.m.
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why should we keep it out of the media. It's a positive thing. It's good news.
Nov 23, 2009 at 7:14 p.m.
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God bless 'em!
Nov 23, 2009 at 6:20 p.m.
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Napalm - Because this is a Christian orientated newspaper.
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