They should have talked with those who worked on the report about turbines in Union Township. But I think we all know Professor they did not ask you , because they did not want to hear , or were afraid of what they might hear. They were incredibly irresponsible in this entire process. But does it really surprise you, look how they run every thing else in Evansville. The noise from this thing is going to effect a lot of people. Please people do not tell me these things do not emit noise they do. We have been reading quite a bit about these monsters, and the health issues that come with having one near a residential area. I have no doubt if this one is anything like the one people who have written reports on their experiences with them, it will be shut down in pretty short order. The city of Evansville will find it self being sued, and the tax payers will be out the money. We than can all thank , decker and the city council.

I still maintain that it was completely irresponsible for the city to NOT contact Union Twsp officials before moving ahead with this. I hope I'm around to point fingers, and remind voters how this happened.

Matt & Others,

I think that before anyone says this is a bad or good idea, can someone get the justification. Was there an analysis completed showing the return on the investment, that after X yrs, assuming avg wind speed of Y, that the Turbine would save Z. Z assuming avg rate increases over the same period when compared to purchased power. If there is annual maintenance, those costs should be subtract from the annual savings. You should also include any government programs that subsidize the turbine.

mespl: Yes, this turbine has the potential to power more than one home. Time will tell what the actual capacity factor of this unit is, but being as that the current WWTF consumes almost 50% of the cities energy use,(http://www.ci.evansville.wi.gov/WWTF.html) I don't think any "extra" electricity will make its way to a residence in the WPPI service area. My concern is with the illusion this turbine will create. This turbine on its own will not be able to fully power the waste water treatment plant. That is the point I am trying to make.

janesvillean: I agree with some of your points. I would really like people to be realistic in regards to what this toy turbine will produce as compared to its cost and reliability. It was not a need but a want. The city has made its claims as to the eggs this golden goose shall bring the city. I will now take a wait and see approach and monitor the output and consistency of the turbine once installed. This city has let me down on more than one occasion, and I fear that again it will be the residents of Evansville who will be left with the bill for this wishful thinking project.

A concentrated community conservation effort would be much more beneficial than pricey symbolism.

Breaking wind at the the waste water treatment plant. Try saying that 3 times fast.

For what it's worth, the new w.w. treatment plant was necessary due to age/capacity issues--AND, was sorely below standards with respect to what it is supposed to do. To that end, any new one would be required by current law to do things that the old one did not, hence the expense. None-the-less, janesvillian, another good point.

It's really crazy that people are debating the benefits of a money-making investment that will cost taxpayers around $250,000, but not one person has questioned the vendors or technology being used in the $7 million wastewater treatment facility itself. Will it cleanse nitrates as claimed? Are there higher ongoing costs for this equipment? No, no, let's argue about the thing that costs 1/28th as much.

Sorry intrigued, but a tiny 100KW unit is not the same as the ones you are giving reference to.

Other reasons for concern:
http://www.cwestonline.org/?p=106
http://betterplan.squarespace.com/

I also thought that it was sarcasm at first however then I saw how people were agreeing with him and saying that it is not big enough to do any real good so I just wanted to clarify that he was incorrect. I do agree that this dose go beyond the energy output per house however I do not have any specifics on electrical consumption at the treatment plant so I was working with the statements that I have information on for my statement.

Mespi--I can't speak for Matt, but I took his comment as more sarcasm than actual fact. If he was serious, though, your figures would seemingly set that record straight. However, I do think the issues being discussed here go beyond energy output/house.

Also note that the 'future value' of WPPI's up front money of $257,400 is worth much more than that. I won't bore you with the calculation.

The US Energy Information Agency clames that the average US household uses 8900 kW of electricity each year. The unit that has been selected to be placed in Evansville is the same model as a unit placed at McGlynn Middle School in Medford MA, which has similar wind zoning as Evansville has. That unit has produced 58986 kW since January. It was clamed in the previous article by kitfox that these two could be compared. If you compare the power that would be produced in a year with the average usage then this turbine could be expected to produce enough electricity to power 7 residentual homes given the wind average speed of 9 mph that the existing unit is experencing. Some of you will still call this insignificant however it is proving that it will provide more than enough power than one home requires. And this was selected for a wastewater plant not a home.

I don't think the city will put up what Matt suggested. I think they know the benefits are minimal and people won't be happy with the minimal benefits compared to the cost.

Just some responses to various replies to my original post: First, I 'get' the whole wind idea; I think wind does have a role to play in generating clean energy in the future. BUT, that doesn't mean that a wind turbine is always a good idea, anywhere someone wants to put one up. It is simply irresponsible to put one up in a place where the ADMITTED wind speed is barely enough to get the thing turning. Similarly, it was irresponsible for the City to NOT take advantage of the hard work Union Twsp. reps put into studying this issue, and at least ask some questions. Contrary to No1shouldHate, I never suggested anyone ask Union for permission. And, while the grant money is great, where do you think that comes from? And, at a time when the city is desperately concerned about current and future finances (except to give the City Admin. a raise), this item seems to be on the 'want' list, not 'necessary' list. BTW. I love Matt's idea.

Matt: I would like to argue your point of this turbine being lucky to power one residentual home. That is an incorrect statement. I grew up in a home powered by a 3kw wind turbine (and produced that power at 28 mph), it was an home built with efficiency in mind however it was about 2500 squair feet with a family of five living in it, and the bills to the electric company were about 6 dollars a month and that was for 240 volt 3 phase power that a turbine that small can not produce. So contrary to what you want to tell people this unit size was selected for a specific purpose and with specific design criteria in mind and that was a larger load than a residential home.

anyone notice that the turbine produced the lowest amount of sound of the ones considered?
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103db is comparable to a home lawnmower.
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I doubt that the electricity savings of the folks in the area will offset the 50% increase in waste water treatment rates.

I as well will say thank you to Matt. Thats what several people on here have tried to point out, it NOT big enough do any real good. The ones that would be big enough, they could never put in that location. So the city's attitude seemed to be we would rather have something, instead of nothing. Even if we never really see it save us anything. IT was all about trying to put Evansville on the map in some form because they have failed to bring any real business to town , jobs etc.. So lets stick up a windmll, it won't do much for us but at least people will see we have one. Geeeezzz

Thank you Matt.

I think people need to understand that this turbine will at best be a supplement. This turbine would be lucky to power one residential home, let alone the whole treatment plant! This turbine was not needed. The upgrades to the waste water treatment plant were necessary by law. The turbine was not. It is a feel good false idol for ignorant tunnel visioned individuals to claim victory over the war on Carbon. This is a baby turbine sited next to a large marsh in an already low median wind area. For those who think this is the bees knees, please don't hold your breath. I was the one who asked questions at a city council meeting. This is investing good money into bad science. I will end with this. City of Evansville, please provide your residents with a real time energy meter showing how much power is being created by this turbine in real time, on your website. This will provide facts for those who are open minded, and are willing to give this project a chance. If the power output matches the cities expectations over the course of three years, I will write a public apology.

I have to wonder if mayor decker is not planning on running for re-election. We can hope not. She has done her best to bankrupt the town, and made some very poor decisions of late. She will be remembered for the financial stress she brought to Evansville and nothing more. We will be paying for her mistakes for years. She has kind of taken the lame duck approach of late, not caring what people try to tell her, just doing as she pleases.

My kids will not thank me for the debt we are leaving them, thanks to foolish spending by our local council and government.

I am not worried about profit, never said I was. The question is how much will it 'save' the city, not much by the terms from the site of this monster. It's too small. How much over the life time of this monster will Evansville 'save' just peanuts from everything we have read. Bad decision. I am not against 'green' energy when done properly in the proper setting, this pinwheel, has neither setting or being done properly going for it.

Curtaincall......Everything always doesn't have to be about turning a profit. I'm very sorry that you are going to have to look at the "monster" of a turbine, but the time has come where we have to start making sacrifices to help the planet. Don't be so negative about this--when you look at it use it as a reminder/motivator to make other steps to reduce your footprint on our planet. Your kids will thank you:)

They should have spoken with committee members from Union about the pinwheel. They did extensive research and study on these monsters, they know more than most. OF course the city did not talk with them first, because they would not be able to justify spending this kind of money, on this monster after they heard what the committee found out. That is Evansville does, spend money, worry about the rest later and claim ignorance later.

**** Point and case they were warned about allowing extensive building on the west side of town and now look at the mess they have with all the flooding issues, and all the tax payer money it has and will take to resolve the issue. No they just see dollar signs and say yes to everything. Regardless of the warnings and resources available to them.

The point being is after 17 years, like anything its efficiency will severely drop, if not before then. It was tax payer money that was used. It was not free money. So people should be concerned . It just lends cause to people's arrangement of foolish spending by our council.

Did any of you take time to read this article? For those of you who immediately jump to conclusions about cost, did you take the time to see how much of the cost is covered by grants and up front energy payments? Of the $594,000 total cost, $432,400 is covered UP FRONT. Also, who said anything about the device being decommissioned after 17 years? I'm pretty sure that just like any other energy producing device it can be refurbished to provide many more years of service. Other than common courtesy, why should the City of Evansville talk to anyone in Union Township for permission? The wind turbine is providing power for the sewage facility, plus giving back to the power grid. Seems like a big win to me.

Everybody’s pretty excited about it,” he said. “It’s a good thing, the right thing to do.” Who is he kidding? The only people i have heard talk exited about this is those who chose to spend tax payer money on it. Those of us who live within a half mile of this monster surely are not excited. Many are confused about why now when the city had to lay off employees, putting a hiring freeze in place, wage freeze, furloughs , why the heck would anyone with any common sense at all spend that kind of money for a toy. It will almost be a 'antique' in terms of wind mill years before Evansville sees a profit from this. After that its all down hill. What a waste.

Professor thank you for the info. MY guess would be NO they never talked to anyone in UNION township about this, and what you learned when you spent months researching these and getting the facts about safety and health concerns. They did not ask because they did not want to hear it was a bad idea. They just wanted, what they wanted, and to spend money. Thank you again for your info. You are very right, that is a very small window. Not worth the money the city will spend on this.

Professor: be sure to keep in mind that a wind turbine is not a money-maker when you factor in the initial cost along with all of the operation and maintenance costs. It's primary purpose would be to generate electricity using CLEAN/GREEN resources that are domestically available - much the same as ethanol production. We need to 'bite the bullet' on any cost savings if the USA wants to reduce our foriegn oil dependency.

Well, I have a few more questions: The article said that payback is EXPECTED to be in a little less than 17 years. The spec sheet for that turbine says it's "design life" is 20 years. Seems kind of a short window. But, even IF it turns out to last 17 years, what will happen to it after it's design life has been exhausted? How much will it cost to decomission it? Oh, and the spec sheet also said--after converting to mph--that at the average "study" speed of 12.1 mph (according to the study--but was that an actual measurement at hub height, or by a chart?), the turbine will be operating at about 20% capacity. Was the 20% capacity figure used to calculate the 17 years payback period? Finally, the spec sheet also says that the 'cut in' speed (when it starts to produce energy) is about 8 mph; in fact, the spec sheet says that at just under 7 mph, it is producing NO electricity. Query: Did anyone in City government even TALK to anyone in Union Township about what they found during their study?

Thank you for answering some great questions, this sounds like a great project.