Yes, now 2% of the population uses the rink, up from 1%. Definitely makes choosing the rink over plowing the streets a wise choice.

Unidentified you should change your username to uninformed.... WI not a hockey state really?? UW Badger mens program over the last 20 years has a higher average attendance than up to five or six NHL teams.... Now with the addition of the Rock County Fury Girls High School team , the success of the Janesville Bluebird Coop High School team, and now the Janesville Jets hockey is more popular than ever around here..

When will this City do something for Adults?
Never because they leave that up to free enterprise as they should.

I would LOVE to sign a petition to remove these people. In my opinion, the fact that they are willing to lower what is public safety standards (ice on our roads), in order to pay for a recreational activity signifies a complete reversal of logical thought. How many people will die on unplowed roads while driving to our shiny new ice rink?

You don't need to spend millions of dollars on an ice arena to get sheets of ice. Just wait about a month and you'll find a sheet of ice on any of Janesville's roadways that the same city council has decided to salt and plow less, while still finding the money to pay for projects like this. Remember folks, these people will continue to squander your tax dollars until you put them in the unemployment line. Your decision.

There are a few facts I'd like to point out here. First, if they weren't serving beer, this arena would be empty. Hockey never has been and probably never will be a big WI sport. A cold weather state with no NHL pro team? The Admirals have empty seats every game. Secondly, the novelty will wear off. Thirdly, if this is such a "Great idea" let the people of Janesville vote on it. However, that would never happen, because the council knows it would get squashed. To spend this much on a seasonal sport that employees very few people in our current economic crisis is beyond ridiculous. Although I thought the timing was wrong for these also, I'd rather see the childrens museum or skate park get built then this hockey arena, at least more people would use them.

And the children's museum.

ooh, and the bike tunnel to.

Hey, lets not forget the water park. Where are we going to put that?

WOW, great post justsome1here. Seems that Ilovehockey is a bit of a hypocrite. Pretty sad that he/she thinks that a ice arena is more important than our teachers. More than sad, its appalling.

Ilovehockey - You posted this:
On No new contract in sight for Janesville teachers

Posted on July 10 at 12:54 p.m. ( Suggest removal )
Here we go again. Why should teachers get a freeze, because I did and I pay their wages! Their job is not more important than mine. Alot of people have important jobs that work to keep our communities functioning, teachers are not the exception. Now, that being said, I do have a school aged child and I very much appreciate the work that teachers do. I just don't think that in times where alot of Janesville citizens are losing jobs and taking pay freezes that the citizens should be required to take even more out of their pockets to give the teachers a raise.
.
Wow - And you just can't seem to understand why people don't want their taxes raised for a hockey rink. Why does this not surprise me?

the 3 percent is a done deal.

As one might expect, the numbers aren't pretty in City Manager Eric Levitt's first budget proposal. Declining revenues are leaving some tough choices. They include possible reductions in snow plowing services, charging residents who place too many trash bags at the curb, and asking city employee unions to defer 3 percent cost-of-living raises until December 2010.
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http://gazettextra.com/weblogs/opinion-m...
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http://gazettextra.com/news/2009/oct/03/...
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What a GREAT IDEA!! Spend 2.5 million tax payer dollars on an ICE RINK that 2% of the population will ever use! AWESOME!!!!!! Much better idea than using the money for, oh I dont know, PLOWING THE DAMN STREETS! Who cares about plowing the streets when we can have a wonderful new ice rink for that 2% of the population to use. Pretty funny that an article not to long ago was talking about how they dont have the money to run the plows all year, that concessions as to how much snow should be on the ground before plowing had to be made, but they can offer 2.5 million for an ice rink. HAHAHAHA Priorities are a little skewed I would say.

Starbuck1 - You are correct, I am rich, if you are talking about my wonderful family and my friends. If you are talking money, far from it.

When the rink was run by the leasing company, relations were strained to say the least. That is why the rink went downhill. And the things that need the most money, the actual ice system, is nothing that any volunteer or group can donate time to fix. Youth hockey donates a ton of time to the upkeep of the rink. Every year they do inside and outside maintanence of the facility, all donated. You've probably never stepped inside the rink to even have a clue as to what you are talking about.

The reason it's being brought up now is because there is no more fixing of the ice system. Its too old! They don't even make parts for it anymore.

You know, I get that people are concerned about the money, I have to pay it too, but just maybe before you go posting, you should find out the facts.

Starbuck - I'll answer your question. People have been complaining about the rink for years and years. Nobody would listen or take action. Everyone kept ignoring the work that needed to be done and it got worse and worse. Nobody was listening and the city new the situation was getting worse. Finally, someone came in that would listen and understand.

Here is the oldest article I could find that mentions the Jets (they didn't have a name yet back then) coming to town.
http://gazettextra.com/news/2009/jan/16/...

The council has to approve the rink. The City Manager has no power to do that himself.

I'll ask the question again, where is the CONFLICT OF INTEREST? Some of you folks need to look up the definition.

ShotgunWillie - Everyone already knows his son played hockey. It was one of the first articles written on him when he took the job. It was made very clear about his enthusiasm for the game. This isn't news or some big conspiracy.

Starbuck how much do you think your taxes are going to go up??? If your house is assessed at $ 113,000 it will be less than two dollars a year. Is this really going to burden you to the point of not being able to survive???? Two dollars a year??

Starbuck - Good luck with that. Let me know how that turns out for ya. Have a good night.

Eric Levitt started as city manager in December. Almost immediately, the ice arena became an issue when a Junior A hockey team asked to make the arena its home but wanted $200,000 in modifications to do so. Now, the council must decide whether to spend millions to renovate the aging arena or build anew.

Levitt’s son played hockey in Arizona and began playing with the Janesville Youth Hockey Club when the family moved here.

bobwood: I think if you got the recall going and went all around Janesville to have a petition signed, you'll probably be amazed at how many people will sign it. I certainly will.

The city could take a look at how Eau Claire did it. They went through what we are going through 20 some years ago, only it was 2 big businesses, Uniroyal and Presto. They also have a 2 sheet ice areana and it is run through the city. In talking with one of their high school coaches earlier this year, the program is still going strong. They have roughly the same population as Janesville, so if they can support it, and have been all these years, there is no reason we cant! I'd like to know why everyone thinks this will just fade away in a couple of years. Where is this coming from? What rinks have you seen or heard of that have had that problem? Or is it all just speculation....again.

Give thanks by helping neighbors in needBy SHELLY BIRKELO ( Contact ) Thursday, Oct. 29, 2009
.
With Rock County experiencing the highest unemployment numbers in Wisconsin, fewer local residents are able to afford putting a Thanksgiving Day meal on the table.

That's why ECHO is asking those who are blessed to give thanks by sharing their bounty and sponsoring holiday meals for the less fortunate.

The faith-sponsored charity expects to assist more than 1,200 low-income families with Thanksgiving baskets this year.

That's nearly 300 families more than the 916 families served in 2008, said Jessica Schafer, client advocate.

Need for food, lodging and gas vouchers by ECHO clients continue to increase with the ongoing struggling economy, she said.

Demand for "total services through the end of September compared to 2008 was up by 19 percent," Schafer said.

Willie lets make a deal - you don't post again until the State Attorney General says something that agrees with your opinion of the situation.

Nice hearing from you Willie, retire the screen name.

To clarify what I had written, I think The menards building would have worked well if the roof support system could be modified in such a way that all the supporting posts would not be needed. It wasn't my idea but someone elses and I made the comment it would be a great idea.
If Menards would be willing to work with us would be fantastic. Corporate money is good and it would be great public relations for them.
I had lived in Beloit years ago and worked in Beloit for many and along side people who were involved with Beloit Youth Hockey. They would love to be a part of an ice arena like this.
Thanks for reminding us of what a mess the city owned ice arena had been at one time. It makes it worse knowing the city had owned it at that time.
I remember those days also. I remember being there when the ice was melted and the city was deciding whether to keep shelling money into a seemingly botomless pit. The thought of the skaters and kids in youth hockey not having a place to skate kept it alive.
My concern is location, if anyone in the decision making process is for it solely for their own bennefit and not for the publics intrest and what are the plans to make enough money so that it dosen't become a money pit again?
To think it will support itself solely on hockey games after the newness wears off is nieve.
I've seen projects like this before and they fail if you don't plan to keep the public intrested like I said after the newness wears off. This means other types of events also.
The city council needs to reserch what others have done and what has worked.
In final, to those city council members who want to go ahead with this, please put your name on the building and that you were for the project.
As usual, if things turn out great you will get some of the credit, if things turn out bad, you won't get some of the credit, you will get all of the credit.

hockey1: I'd forgotten about the girls co-op program. My bad. Thanks for the reminder. As far as Diane Hendricks' announcement this week, I am thrilled by it. That family is Southern Wisconsin's jewel and we are blessed to have their direction. I hope you are right about the walls coming down between the two communities. It is definitely about time.

Willie, you still haven't told us what that conflict is.

We will find out what the State Attorney General has to say about Eric Levitts conflict of interests when planning this Ice Rink deal.

SarahB also doesn't realize that the Beloit and Janesville hockey club have a co-op program for girls hockey players at all levels. We already work together as a Beloit/Janesville effort. Also, as you post on this blog you may also note that in the Gazette today they share that the Hendricks family is working on a joint economic development team with Janesville. Lets put the past behind us and look toward a bright future for our communities.

The city has always owned the ice arena, they just paid another company to run it for awhile. That didn't work so well. Many times we would go to use the facility, only to find out that there wasn't any power in the building.

We have come along way since those days. Especially in the area of communication. The Ice Advisory Committee was a great way for all users to know what was going on. I'm glad to see that they are bringing it back.

As stated in previous posts, the Menards building won't work. Too many beams in the building.

And to SarahB1, in years past, I would agree that there were many hard feelings between Beloit and Janesville, however we have worked hard to make sure that this isn't the case anymore. Beloit users come to our summer camps and open hockey. As well as the combined Girls hockey teams at High School and youth level. I can honestly say that we are past those issues.

ktsjacko,
If we have to have one, I think your idea of using the old Menards would be great. If they can retrofit the existing roof support system with one which would work. Perhaps the city could cut a deal with Menards I"m sure they would like to get their old building off their books. In return, as part of the deal, the city could offer to name the ice arena The Menards Ice Center or or the Menards Center or something of that nature. The name itself would be a draw to some to see it instead of some hokey pokey name as usual.
The location is great because people would find it easier off the interstate and that's a big plus.
Face it, the people who owned the old ice arena couldn't make a go of it. They ran other ice arenas and they had no answer to make ours profitable. The city decided to have a go of it because of the Youth Hockey Club and high school hockey. They soon found out the overhead of running a ice arena is larger than the profit margin. They depend on allot of volunteer work to get by. The new ice arena will also depend on this and more tax dollars. Perhaps they should put in the paper the real facts of what it takes now.
If they build the new ice arena, I doubt if the hockey club will come up with their part of the money but I'm sure the project will go forward.
So, the questions are; how do we, as largely ignored taxpayers get monitary help with this project? What can be done so that all the citizens of Janesville come away with something out of their investmant? Does it mean other events to be held at the ice arena besides hockey and ice skating?
The place needs to be able to turn a profit and Skating and Hockey alone are not going to do it. If they haven't, the city council members need to go to other facilities and find out what they do to make a profit or be revenue neutral and let the people of Janesville know what they have discovered. Why go in blind.
It's always easy to spend other peoples money without some deturent.
The city council is not the city of Janesville alone. It's the public and the city council as a whole (I'm not saying everyone is needs to sit in the corner), needs to remember they have a responsability in their positions to serve for the public majority.

ktsjacko,
If we have to have one, I think your idea of using the old Menards would be great. If they can retrofit the existing roof support system with one which would work. Perhaps the city could cut a deal with Menards I"m sure they would like to get their old building off their books. In return, as part of the deal, the city could offer to name the ice arena The Menards Ice Center or or the Menards Center or something of that nature. The name itself would be a draw to some to see it instead of some hokey pokey name as usual.
The location is great because people would find it easier off the interstate and that's a big plus.
Face it, the people who owned the old ice arena couldn't make a go of it. They ran other ice arenas and they had no answer to make ours profitable. The city decided to have a go of it because of the Youth Hockey Club and high school hockey. They soon found out the overhead of running a ice arena is larger than the profit margin. They depend on allot of volunteer work to get by. The new ice arena will also depend on this and more tax dollars. Perhaps they should put in the paper the real facts of what it takes now.
If they build the new ice arena, I doubt if the hockey club will come up with their part of the money but I'm sure the project will go forward.
So, the questions are; how do we, as largely ignored taxpayers get monitary help with this project? What can be done so that all the citizens of Janesville come away with something out of their investmant? Does it mean other events to be held at the ice arena besides hockey and ice skating?
The place needs to be able to turn a profit and Skating and Hockey alone are not going to do it. If they haven't, the city council members need to go to other facilities and find out what they do to make a profit and let the people of Janesville know what they have discovered. Why go in blind.
It's always easy to spend other peoples money without some deturent.
The city council is not the city of Janesville alone. It's the public and the city council as a whole (I'm not saying everyone is needs to sit in the corner), needs to remember they have a responsability in their positions to serve for the public majority.

ne1but24n18: I hope you're right. I really do wish the arena supporters best of luck in gaining donations. The more they get, the better chance the city's cost will not be above $2 million (or $2.5 million for two sheets of ice).

SarahB1 They will have the money raised by then. So you and all others can get ready to pay a little more one way or the other

ne1but24n8: Great! I bet those 10 kids have the money to cover half-share ownership and/or sponsorship for a new $5 million arena here in Janesville. I believe the arena will be built, but I fear the city (ultimately, the taxpayers) will end up footing the bill for much more than half the total cost.

ilovehockey: An ice arena not at least partially owned by the city? I have no idea, nor do I care. Are you saying, every other city makes this mistake, so we should too? If your friend jumps off a bridge...

SarahB1. You should stop by the rink on any sunday night or friday night for open hockey some time. You will see at least 10 sometimes more hockey players from beloit. Beloit does have ice right now also. So what you say means nothing

As a native of Beloit, I certainly hope that community doesn't fall for this bone. A good share of Janesville's population has put down Beloit for many, many decades. The people down there aren't looking for any invitations from Janesville.

Great idea jacko the old Menards building would be great we could just put some padding around all the support columns that would be in the middle of the rink... get a clue!!!!

Spark - get a clue....first off, someone else below suggested his name if one of his companies put up the money....two, i never said i hated janesville....i live in janesville.....simply saying the man didnt like janesville....why do you think his business was in beloit?

and as far as poor taste - naming a building after someone is not poor taste...just not his name on that building is all i was saying

donkeykong - What is your point? If you hate Janesville, pack your bags. Ken Hendricks was all about growth and taking chances. Bringing him into this is in poor taste. I suggest many of you get on with life. I've never seen more cry babies in my life. It's truly pathetic.

They shoulda put it in the old Menards building. Very accessible from the interstate and travelers. Also, close to alot of restaurants, places where families would want to go after the games to have dinner. Plenty of room for 2 sheets of ice.

Just for the record, Hannah is not married to Pete and she is not nuts. Is that better?

I believe the Gazette editors should take down this entire string of comments.

Hannah - It's pointless to try and prove anything to you. You are talking about one hockey team. The rink is used by other people than the players and spectators of the Jets!!!!!!!! This is what I'm talking about. All of you that appose, throw false information and accusations out that aren't even credible.

jtr- what nasty remark did I miss this time. Seems others think youre nasty remarks dont belong here as well.

DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY ABOUT THIS STORY?

just under 700 showed for the game. gee that is 1% of the population. Like I said how do you plan to make up 5 million. better charge more for beer huh?

Again, many are you assume the rink is used by only a few. Why is that? Where are you getting this from? You are completely, falsely mistaken. It's used more than most of the other public facilities we pay for.

Sorry a bit off topic there but not really. These people who seem to think tax payers have deep pockets NEVER seem to look at other possibilities to save some money. maybe if it were their own they would think about it more! Well some of it is their own but also seem to be swayed by buttered bread?! and their OWN PERSONAL agendas!

would you like another examle? tallman house. Anybody know if you own an old home it will cost less to fix the little stuff NOW vs ignoring it and having even bigger and more issues later. Also if you fix things when they happen it will cost less now(or then) vs more in the future. dry wall could be an exception, also copper. I am not sure WHY the roof needs to be historically correct by using copper again and not sure why a steel faux looking copper would work to save money. It doesnt change the history that at one time it WAS solid copper. Save an example and put it on display and write about nowadays this just isnt cost effective!!!!!!! steel will last a very long time as well and was used on older homes.

spark- i didnt need to do reasearch to know this. the currect coucil told me these facts. Who knows what will happen in the future. I will take a guess . As usual you wont take care of what you have because you will spend millions on projects we dont need cause you failed to maintain them in the first place.

bereasonable- cause they dont want to lose money?

What could have been done is to at least approach companies in and around Janesville and ask them if they would have been interested in investing in Janesvilles hockey rink. The building with say 49% ownership or money invested would be named after thier company. Like The Hendricks or Cullen Ice Arena.
Perhaps Beloit would have been interested in half ownership in the facility if located closer to them.
In reality, I don't think either would be interested because of the economy but the idea should have been there.
Sometimes when you shake a bannana tree you get
a bannana, sometimes you get a pissed off gorilla. Unfortunately, this time we are going to get a white elephant and the taxpayers are the ones who are going to have to catch it.
Yes, the poor taxpayers who's market value of their homes has dropped around 20%, average. And they still pay property taxes for their assessment of yesteryear. Yes, the poor people of Janesville who's majority has been ignored for the chosen few, again.
It sure appears that someone or ones on the city council are either going to get their "bread buttered", so to speak or are just plain nieve. So which is it.

Hannah - Again, you should do some research. The past council took responsibility and admitted they messed up by taking money away from it which in return let the current rink fall apart. Mistakes were made and if they weren't, we wouldn't be in this situation at all. Truth hurts.

It is funny this council blammed other councils in the past for not taking care of the old one. So all you have to do is not take care of the new one and just blame it on the previous councils and youll have to spend 5 million AGAIN in 30 years. round and round we go just like in the rink.

Since when is the government supposed to "turn a profit?" These are public services performed....for the public...paid for by the public. I have no clue how this new rink will be managed but it needs to have a lot more involvement than the current one. I believe if the city had maintained that one properly this discussion would not occur. BUT the city ignored it forever and now there is a need for a new one. If you are going to hound the council at least hound them in a way that will force them to take care of what they have. THe rink is a good idea. The JYL and Jets will need to be major players in keeping it an outstanding facility. Many of the naysayers here have no clue how much traffic hockey tournament bring in...it is amazing. I am not saying the city will make millions but it will pay off whatever bonding there is as well as enough to PROPERLY maintain it.

Once again I see the "Good Ole Boys" of this forum are complaining about taxes and recalling elected officials again. Good grief, get a life! I don't think it is possible for Janesville to get something good without you guys complaining. For those of you growling about increased fees, etc. in this city, you can thank GM and the economy. All the "perks" we enjoyed for years came from their tax dollars their "good fortune". Now that those days are over, we ALL have to start paying more.

And for those of you who don't like our elected officials, perhaps it's time you run for office so we can chastise and blame you for all of our problems.

Hanna- Get a clue, would you please. Go read the rest of my posts and you will understand why I said that. It was referring to others posts about taxes and how some would like outside companies getting jobs rather than local. Hence why I made that comment because people on here were constantly "bi*ching" about GM being taken away. It's sickening how many hypocrites there are on here that think about themselves and thats it.

http://sendables.jibjab.com/view/1RpN7K5......

They have already mentioned it MAY not be big enough. maybe you should SEE first.

spark"spark
Oct 28, 2009 at 11:04 a.m.
Suggest removal ShotgunWillie - They won't have room for cots. There will be too many people in the way using it for what it's intended for. Skating. There's an empty GM building they could fit a bunch of cots in though."

interesting you say this. SO it is more important to have a place for people that still have their jobs and CAN afford this than to help with unemployement. I found it nasty of you to suggest the unemployed (gm some of them) workers stay on the cots at the plant while it is okay to raise taxes some more for this silly rink at this time.

sarahb1"My prediction: The hockey folks will not raise their full share of the $5 million. The City Council will go ahead with the project anyway. Why? Because the plan is already in the works to demolish the old arena and build the new fire station on that property. The Council is already shopping the idea around as it sees the old arena's land as being "free" since the city already owns it. (For once, my crystal ball is working.)"

I agree except for one thing about the fire station WONT work on the site so all that money we will save is a lie!!

dang"Besides the city takes care of traxler about as well as it takes care of the ice arena. And since you have probably never been to either I will inform you that they both are in terrible shape."
yes real good reason to WASTE 5 million if youre not going to take care of this one either!!

bobwood"The ice rink is a business who`s intent is to turn a profit . Will the city see to it that after the money is has been used that we the taxpayers get a return for profit made at the rink. The answer is no ."

that is because there will not be a profit. And in 30 years theyll need another new one!!! Tell me how you can make 5 million after costs from this place and turn a profit??????

Just like their other hair brained( sorry if this isnt the exact term) schemes like the child museum. They said theyll operate at only a $.... loss!!! That is NOT profit!!

jtr- if you coudl read...

bobwood"Now are clowns need to be sent the same message .Its time to open records and see who the worst council members are , and send them packing "

bozo is a clown and we have 5 of them right here in janesville!! BIG SHOES and all

I still want to know where we got to 5 million. We heard to fix the old rink was 1.5 milliion and to build new one would
ONLY be 1 million more. WHERE is the other 2.5 million coming from???

Hannah - Which 5 Bozos would that be? There was only one nationally synicated Bozo so I'm assuming you are not referring to him. There were many locally produced Bozos but it's impossible to know which ones you are referring too. Please take a look at the bozos and let me know the names of the ones you don't approve of. I was only alive to watch the nationally syndicated Bozo so I don't have as much information like an old lady like you would have on the locally televised bozos. Have a wonderful day. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bozo_the_Cl...

jtr- you go away. What do you mean by farming and what little story are you trying to make up this time!!!!

rinkrat- I voiced my opinion via email. guess that doesnt count huh- sorry I have to go to work to TRY to get a paycheck to pay for all this crap!!

Hannah - Go away. This article has nothing to do with farming. Please stay on topic.

bobwood- i agree 5 bozos need to go.

"ifve we knew for sure this was going to be the site for the fire station, it would make it a whole lot easier for us," he said."


WELL there is that seed ALREADY . That didnt take long. The seed I am talking about is what I mentioned in another blog about this that theyll put the new fire station there to save money and then say Oh btw this wont work!!"

SuperDave

Can you tell me an ice arena that ISN'T at least partially owned by the city?

Wow, where to begin. First, JPCullen does not get all the projects, although they do a great job. In fact, the remodeling at the ice arena was done by a different contractor, I believe out of Beloit. Next, for all of those who can't seem to remember the dollar amounts, please review previous articles. The 200,000 nor the 1.5 million have changed. Those were always the figures. And my last point, is to SuperDave. Please tell me an Ice Rink that is not at least partially owned by the city. You bring this up continually, and other than Capital Ice in Middleton, I can not think of a rink around here that isn't at least partially owned by the city. And I may be wrong about Cap Ice, I don't know their specific agreement. I am truly curious.

SuperDave - I'm having a normal conversation with you with regards to your posts and you still have to act like a two year old. Sit here all you want and try and sound smart by throwing out questions that you can't even answer yourself. Makes you sound even dumber. So much for good conversation. Carry on.
-
As far as my posts. Yep, I do a great job of making many people look silly.

I would suggest that people who are posting on this board to use spell check and review their grammar. It is rather embarrassing to see how the people of Janesville attempt to spell and try to put together a complete sentence. Your lack of writing skill reflect poorly not only on yourself but the image of Janesville as well.

Once you spelling and grammar challenged people learn the basic rules, I also suggest you resort to a more civil tone and end these personal attacks on those who post an opinion that is opposite of yours. Again, your lack of civility reflects poorly on yourself and Janesville. If you continue to be rude, I will suggest to the Gazette that your comments be removed.

Bottom line, this ice arena is not needed right now and the vote on the project was done without hearing from the citizens of Janesville. Once again, special interest groups(like the wealthy) are alive and well here in Janesville.

Are you still here ? Get productive yourself !Since you are assuming without any knowledge of who ,or what I am doing, remember the first 3 letters in the word spell *** and thats you .

good one bobwood...yes my complaints are about ignorant and moronic posts....because they make no sense....and i wont even go there with the spelling....i dont use one finger to type and dont have time to go back and proofread....as you obviously have time to do by going back reading all my posts....find something productive to do

I noticed my name mentioned. Note: "spark" is on my IGNORE list. PLEASE feel free to read his/her posts and you will know why. For my part, once on the IGNORE list I do not read or respond to that person.

My house has never caught on fire - don't need the fire department.
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/328...

SuperDave - And predictably, those that don't support it can't answer the same question either on where to draw the line. So what is the point? It's a dead-end.

And, predictably, no one who supports the idea of a government ice arena has answered my question. That's because there is no answer. To attempt to draw the line as to what government pet project they would find objectionable opens the curtain and exposes the flawed "logic" of their support for a government ice arena.
Go ahead, build it. Operate it. Maintain and repair it. We'll figure out how to pay for it "later". Just like we're paying NOW for all the bad decisions of the past, and those that spent the money retire comfortably and move out of the area.

Donkeykong , Judging from the majority of your posting you complain almost constantly about other poster complains .Would that make you a complainer too ? Plus you insult posters , calling them stupid , dumb , morons ,jokes ,ignorants , etc .Also in 4. you spelled complain incorrectly , and that makes you look just as moronic as those you have insulted .

donkey: Real productive post dude. Don't discuss any actual ideas, just attack people. Please try again.

I think it's funny that Pete changes his name to ShotgunWillie and nobody is supposed to notice.

Draw the line right here . Lets follow through and complete the ice arena , and any other projects will have to be voted on by a public referendum .Maybe then we will all be happy .That is if we all vote.

i would make these conclusions about those who oppose this rink...well, and pretty much anything else that goes on in janesville....

1 - You are over the age of 40
2 - You are the same people that complain about the youth of today and their lack of respect, responsibility and their alcoholic tendencies
3 - You leave your home only for the essentials (groceries, doctors appts w/ your psychologist, pharmacy to get your depression meds)
4 - And no doubt, you will ALWAYS find something to comaplain about

Disclaimer: not ripping on anyone over 40 who may want the rink, but generally your grumpy folks in here who believe they are owed something are older....also, younger folks seem to support these kinds of things because their children will be using them

SuperDave- Almost all ice rinks are a combination of private and public funding. As far as where do you draw the line? Good question. If you read the posts below, you would draw it to only paying for what the people that are against it like to do. If you don't like to golf, swim or ride a bike, that you eliminate all of those things too.

I just wanted to mention that which is intuitively obvious to many. It is not the proper purpose of government to buy, build, own, operate or maintain an ice arena. For those that don't understand or agree to that, I ask you, which sport/hobby/activity would you find to be unacceptable for a government handout? Since government cannot be all things to all people, where do you draw the line?

ShotgunWillie - They won't have room for cots. There will be too many people in the way using it for what it's intended for. Skating. There's an empty GM building they could fit a bunch of cots in though.

how many cots? would this be a reference to homeless people and a lack of place to stay?

Interesting that Mr. Squire and his wife were main pushers of "the most expensive school referendum in state history" right here in Janesville.

http://www.gazettextra.com/news/2009/sep...
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donkeykong
How many cots can they fit on a sheet of ice??

ShotgunWillie
I second up that Janesville needs to place a few toll plazas as you enter, and leave Janesville. Rockford has one for a bridge you cross to leave Hwy 2 to cross the river too Riverside Drive.
What Janesville needs most is a Mayor/Economic Director, and not a City Manager Eric Levitts that has a conflict of interest but continues on with a Ice Rink.
*** Eric Levitt believes Janesville can be the next Wisconsin Dells. Sorry Eric there are Cities up, and down the Interstate that have water parks. So Janesville will be going down the same road, and not acquiring Global Wealth.

What ever you say honkeydong .

exactly council-fool.....thats life.....i hope you like the beautiful 2 sheet ice rink coming to janesville....i certainly will!!

mountainbike
Oct 28, 2009 at 9:46 a.m.
Suggest removal To follow others' logic here I could make the argument:
I don't play golf....no golf course
I don't swim...no pools
I don't play baseball... no diamonds
I don't have kids...no parks
I don't like fireworks...no 4th of July
I don't play football...no fields for youth football

I hope you get my point.
*****************************************
I get your point, and agree as a conservative that all these item need to be under free enterprise.
** Conservatives are for lower taxes, personal freedoms, and States rights.

My prediction: The hockey folks will not raise their full share of the $5 million. The City Council will go ahead with the project anyway. Why? Because the plan is already in the works to demolish the old arena and build the new fire station on that property. The Council is already shopping the idea around as it sees the old arena's land as being "free" since the city already owns it. (For once, my crystal ball is working.)

Dangleesac , your a knucle head . Go back to your posting from oct 14th. I quote "The counsil needs to get a clue and pull their heads out." Those words were printed from your keyboard , and from your brain . also I work 2nd shift and have access to computer all day , so it would seem that I have nothing to do , except torment fools like you .

No, life is dealing with what the city decides, which is what you're going to be doing.

Council foe. You are probably one of those people that sit at home all day just looking to complain about something. Get a life. The city is bigger than your complaints. A city of this size should have a proper facility. After all we live in Wisconsin. Winter wonder land. Besides the city takes care of traxler about as well as it takes care of the ice arena. And since you have probably never been to either I will inform you that they both are in terrible shape.

Oh well.Thats life.

council_foe - It's free because a very generous group of individuals puts all their time and effort into it for nothing because the city doesn't support it. When the city did support it, it was very successful! FYI, if the weather is bad, there's no ice.

Skate at traxler this winter , its free.

To follow others' logic here I could make the argument:
I don't play golf....no golf course
I don't swim...no pools
I don't play baseball... no diamonds
I don't have kids...no parks
I don't like fireworks...no 4th of July
I don't play football...no fields for youth football

I hope you get my point.

The greater point is we all have personal activiites....many of those are enabled or enhance by the local government. Some things are just too large for a club or organization to do on their own. That is the case here.

Communities are also judged by 'quality of life" issues. Janesville has always put an emphasis on recreation and parke. A new rink fits right in. This will be an exciting new jewel for Janesville to show the rest of the state. Be proud and excited we will be able to offer so much more to us and surrounding communities. And, if everyone stops hating this so much, take some time to learn to skate. You will have more fun than you've had in years

Here is another twist . The property could cost a million dollars . The council could look into doing what they do when they want property that isnt for sale , annex it and cut the million down to 30 grand .This may not apply to this situation .Its something to consider .

DiGriz - If you need help packing let me know.

Time to move....

Some here state hockey people pay nothing....well, the club has to pony 1/2 the cost....far cry from "nothing".
This is a facility that will go far beyond just Janesville. It will be a "destination" spot for tournaments, it will be a greater draw for Jets games, it will be more of a "regional" magnet for hockey and figure skating. Folks saying the current rink is not used do not spend time there. If they did they could not make that statement without lying.

I personally believe the council should have made this decision BEFORE renovating the current rink. That was a waste of money. This is an investment in the city's future.

On another note, compare yourself to cities 1/3 the size of Janesville that have rinks. It's sort of embarassing. Why does Janesville have to be last?

After reading these posts and taking in some of the accusations, complaints and opinions, I've gathered some things.
-
First off, I'm not trying to start some big argument, I'm just trying to take a different approach to this and shed some positive light on it. I think many people get so upset, that they aren't thinking about what they're saying.
-Wanting other companies outside of our own community to get jobs and work that provide income to this town, is flat out insane. So it's now ok that GM didn't get the contract and another community is reaping from it? No. Don't let accusations that you think people are getting kick backs, etc. cloud your train of thought.
-Everyone can argue that we need jobs. That go's without saying. One can also assume that nobody will be attracted to a community to start new jobs that has nothing to draw them in. People do look at things outside of work when they decide where they want to reside.
-We all pay taxes on things we don't use or necessarily want. From a local level to a more insane National level. You are going to see this more than ever in years to come. That is life.

woody; You cant be serious - Forward Jvl didnt even hire ONLY Froward Jvl members when it built its own building - what makes you think they would do that now?
***

spark; There are plenty of other contractors in the area qulaified to do this - Klobucar Construction, Magill Construction, Paulson Kimball, and the list goes on. Besides, JPC should actually DECLINE to bid being Mark Cullen is one of the partners - nothing like paying yourself to do work, unless of course you want naming rights for say a million bucks or so - anyone remember JPC gym at the Y?

Not for every project .I do understand that it would put money in the hands of contractors from other towns , but lets see the bids to see who will save us a few bucks .I have noticed over the years Cullen gets nearly all the large building contracts . They do quality work , and a history of doing the job correctly , however they work to closely with the council . I seem to remember that a cullen served on council at one time .It always makes me wonder if there is a bit of dirty pool involved .

Maybe only Forward Janesville members get contracts?

Spread the wealth outside of our own community? Wow, that makes zero sense, but your entitled to your opinion.

Yes spread the wealth , and avoid any controversy .

council_foe - Just curious, would you rather someone other than Cullen get the local contracts? Like their main competition that is out of Madison and surrounding areas? That's not going to do much good for Janesville.

If anyone should understand the plight of this community it should be Bill Truman . The last I had heard he was unemployed .If that is still the case , are you in for a big payday , or when CULLEN (who seems to get almost every building contract) starts to build , will you be getting a kick back ? Why of all members on council did you have to turn your back on the people of janesville , when you and others made it clear that you understood what its like in this economy due to your own situation ?

woody - Thanks for reiterating my point. You just summed up our Government. I'd rather see some money spent on my own community than all the other crap that's happened on a National level.

Im sorry spark , I didnt know that I had a choice . I have the right to complain, just like everyone else .The ice rink is a business who`s intent is to turn a profit . Will the city see to it that after the money is has been used that we the taxpayers get a return for profit made at the rink. The answer is no .We can go back and forth on this subject for ever, its not going to change the fact that the city council is all about tax and spend , and no compassion for the little guy fighting to survive .

The use of "public" is really misleading here, as it is being used by some people. Public tax dollars are going to be used to aid profits for a private Corporation; this Hockey League. An appropriate analogy would be if I started an exercise group, which I personally ran and profited from. Eventually, I would use a public Janesville Park to hold my classes in, but I had directed the COJanesville to cater to my personal business plan to do all the Landscaping and property management, where I held classes for my PRIVATE business. This is getting rediculous in that first it was $200,000 for renovations, then $700,000, then $2 Million for an entirely new facility, and now it's up to $5 Million?! If the City Council is not going to release the actual budget numbers or put this onto a ballot for referendum vote, prepare for a lawsuit. It's as simple as that.

spark...The reason taxes go up is because people can't seem to stop spending money in a crashed economy, including janesville. duh

Bobwood - I can understand some of your points, but why should you get to choose what you pay taxes on? You said you and many others don't want to pay taxes on something that benefits a small group. Well, many more people use the rink than some of the other public items I pay taxes on. Can I choose not to because of that? FYI, I don't use any of them, but I'm fine with supporting if it benefits the community.

The hockey team should work this off. Maybe they could help with trash pick up and shovel sidewalks this winter.

That's right. Eliminate everything the public uses in the entire city. The parks, the pools, the schools, the bike trails, ice rink. Everything that we pay taxes on. We don't need anything in this city. Just jobs. Funny...going to be hard to attract anyone to a town that has absolutely nothing to do outside of work. Do some research people. Think outside the box a little. Or should I say, think outside the rink a little. Oh, that's right, we live in World today where we think we can pick and choose what we pay taxes on. The majority of the Country wanted change so they voted for the new man. The man that is going to tax the living snot out of every single one of us so others can have a change. How ironic.

"So I should'nt have to pay tax's for the three pools, bike trails also senior center. I dont use any of them." (posted by a real Einstein) SEE BELOW

HEY ne1but24n18 since your as uninformed as you postings sound , Most of the negitive posters are also against these projects that our caring city council has drilled down our throats . Look back and read a few posting , go back a few months .I am against any tax increases along with many of my fellow posters for funnzy projects that only benifit a small group .If it isnt good the majority than it isnt needed for the minority .That is exactly the point behind the rink .If you and your buddies want a new rink ,every year there is a fresh coat of ice at traxler . Have at it you bunch of greedy rinkydinks.

Congratulations Janesville! You got this one right.

to Sannio - you betcha it'll raise your taxes.

to VernO - you're talking about Rotary Botanical Gardens? None of your tax money supports that complex. The city leases the property to RGB, and everything on it is paid for by donations and grants.

The original ice rink has been a money pit for years. Were there studies done to determine whether or not we could rely on increased numbers at the gate? Don't remember seeing anything like that.

This was "a done deal" long before it was put to a vote. I agree with Unidentified that this issue should have gone to a referendum.

To all who are supporting the project, I think the reason this has become so controversial is not just because it's an elitist sport being pushed by a few people and championed by the city manager. I think the reason there is so much outcry is because Janesville is currently is deep financial trouble. This will only serve to increase the financial problems this community will be facing in coming years. This project seems to have been based on what "could" occur, or "might" occur. There are no guarantees that this project will turn the first dime in profit - EVER.

The city council did an end run around the citizens of this community, and pushed through a pet project that will only benefit SOME Janesville residents. Taxpayers already faced with sharply increasing tax levys are now faced with even more.

A referendum would have been a just and fair way to decide this issue but that wouldn't have served the ends of the council members who pushed this through. The council didn't drop the ball on this - they blatantly ignored the wishes of the community at large and passed a "pet" project backed by the city manager. They didn't serve my interests - and if what I'm reading here is any indication they didn't serve the interests of many Janesville residents who wanted this project axed. Members of the council were elected to serve ALL the people of Janesville - not just those that like hockey, but they put that reality aside and used their power to please a small group of hockey buffs.

This isn't an investment in Janesville's future - it's a flagrant abuse of power.

Janesvilles "Good Ole Boys Club" alive and well. Ask them who is going to have control at the rink? Will it still be considered Janesville property? Who gets the money from ticket sales and beer advertisements?

Just tax the {rich}

I agree. A recall is needed for all involved. No way this thing should have not been put up for a referendum.

You know what I'm going to contribute. A little extra tax money along with you and everbody else. So get over it.

You go right ahead and do that as we live there already. Sometimes as many as 6 times a week. Ever step in the ice arena. Or go to a youth game,Blurbirds,Jets or any other skating function. So I should'nt have to pay tax's for the three pools, bike trails also senior center. I dont use any of them. Good luck on running for council

How much are all you RINK LOVERS going to contribute .......erie silence.......NOTHING!!!! You want a new ice arena ...we dont . It seems quite clear .If the council would simply read comments on a daily basis they might notice the other side of the storie .

ne1but24n18 .....When I win Im going to annex your property and make you live at you ice arena.

I agree that this should be put to vote by the citizens. I also agree with roubini.

If now is not the right time then when is right?
Tell me what your magic 8 balls say. Because if it is 3 yrs from now you will say it costs to much. None of you complainers will be happy.
sounds like thejoker,council foe,bobwood and
shotgunwillie are running for council next time. we'll see

We, as human beings, are by nature probably unable to take to heart anything having negative implications unless we learn its lesson the hard way through firsthand experience. We all need to get our financial houses in order (from the government to corporations to citizens). Many good paying jobs such as Beloit Corp., Gilman's, Parker Pen, Burdick, Lear, General Motors, Sanford, LSI, and others are gone forever. I undertand Janesville police, fire, schools and city infrastructure must be maintained if we want to attract new business to our city. Someday the extra weeks of unemployment will run out, as will all the other stimulus programs that the federal government has been using to keep our economy going. When the stimulus stops the cities that have made good financial decisions will turn the corner to prosperity and the others will drive off into the deep hole they have dug for themselves.

"boobwood are you serious? "Yes I am , and learn to spell BOB .So your 5 posts seem to only focus on the rink (hence you username) . I was not at the meeting due to the fact that I am a single father who has to work 2nd shift , and pay bills and survive. The council could`nt care about my opinion or any other common man or womans opinion , so why attend only to be ignored , or later laughed at . Maybe if you had a heart , and worried about life ,you would focus you attention on more meaningful efforts . Since you are in bed with the council , you and the council can enjoy the rink . Dont break a leg . RECALL!!!!!!!!!!

boobwood are you serious? A recall.... you and all the other complainers couldn't even go to the council meeting last night to voice your opinion and you think you can pry these people off their keyboards to actually get involved in something.... Good luck

Zoom - $2,500,000.00 from the city (taxpayers) for hockey in Janesville. When people are homeless, living in the streets in Janesville. When children are hungry at schools in Janesville. When snowplowing is being reduced and safety becomes an issue for everyone in Janesville.

First it was a 200,000 dollar plan; now it's in the millions. I don't care what's chipped in; this is outrageous. The United States of America is becoming the United States of Corporate Welfare, and everyone is paying but the rich.

The issue in Madison was their OUTDOOR rinks. Not their 2 indoor rinks, and they were taken off the cut list as of today's article on channel3000. Big difference between indoor and outdoor rinks!

sannio
Oct 27, 2009 at 4:31 p.m.
Suggest removal Will this raise my taxes?
**********************************************
Answer is yes if you own property that is taxed for $113,000.00 your tax levy increase will be a add $100.00 this year just for the Ice Rink.
Do not forget they plan in July to start charging $1.25 for each 30 gallon trash bag at the curb.
To reside in Janesville compared to last year you will have lost services, and increased your costs of $300.00 from last year.
Everything in a your complete tax levy will be a extra $500.00 from City, County, School, and State.
Thank City Manager Eric Levitt for pushing a project he legally should not be involved because of conflict of interests.

wtp: Even Madison's ice rinks are in trouble right now.

This will finally make up for bulldozing the BMX track, to build a lousy reception hall that most of you call a "garden".

Woot!

WTP what are you talking about ? .The point is to keep taxes lower not to raise them. Maybe you should truck your butt to madison , and enjoy their good fortune . 10 people , try many more .Not everyone wishes to voice their opinion on the gazzette comment section , they like to read the comments and talk to co-workes and friends and family, and neighbors .

Well said Madman. I would also like to add that it is being forced down our throats at a time when many people in our city are out of work, their taxes are already increasing at an alarming rate, and our city is trying to figure out what services to cut, or what fees to raise to balance the budget for next year.

wtp....

....what most people don't seem to grasp...like you...is that many of us don't have all that much against the idea of an ice arena...

...what we have a problem with is the way it is being forced down our throats without really listening to our concerns.

THIS is one that really should have gone to the voters to put numbers to the voices. If it passes a referendum, then fine, build the thing.

But to cram it down our throats like this? No good.

ALL I ever asked about this is for the council to ASK us and listen to us.

The city of JVL has over 60 thousand people and yet only 6 to 10 same people raise a stink about this skating rink every time. Why don't you 10 people leave and go to Madison where your taxes are twice as high and then maybe you will be satisfied. I for one am happy to give the opportunity to more kids and young adults that wants to skate more often but can't because there is no ice time available. Even the feeder program finds it hard to find time to bring up new kids that want to learn to skate and play hockey.

Ok add Russ to the list(overlooked that one) .Anyone interested in starting , or helping get involved in a recall ?

bobwood, Russ Steeber voted YES to build the arena, but NO for the south side location.

Steeber voted no to the South Side location, not to the project!!! Yuri Rashkin voted no to committing the money to the ice arena, so your thumbs up needs to go to Rashkin. Steeber spoke over and over in favor of spending the money, and going full speed ahead with the second sheet of ice - but he wanted it on the EAST side of town, near the new youth sports complex....

I give Russ Steeber a big thumbs up for voting no , but the rest of the gang are now added to the list of bozo`s that need to go . Follow the links , and be mad , and see what monroe county did to their almighty leaders who were out of touch .Now are clowns need to be sent the same message .Its time to open records and see who the worst council members are , and send them packing . This is total disregard for the people of janesville and a straight out kick in the mouth to the tax payers who voted these gargbage bags into the council . What the people givith , the people can take awayth .
http://spartarecall.blogspot.com/2009/08...
http://www.wxow.com/Global/story.asp?S=1...

RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALLRECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALLRECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL RECALL

Once again, Janesville continues to operate like a rudderless ship sailing into financial oblivion. Throw these bums out of office! We need people who know what being fiscally responsible actually means.

The excitement displayed by the hockey boosters reminds me of the kids who groan and moan about needing a skateboard park and then leave the park to rot in a few years once they are too old or move on to another hobby.

How much is Larry Squire and Johnson Bank putting up for the ice arena? He jammed the unnecessary multi million school improvement project down our throats and now this?! Enough is enough!

Will this raise my taxes?