hannah, you should quit your other job and get a job for the gazette doing articles. You sure post enough to get your own column. Keep up the good work 'walter "hannah" cronkite'.

another tip

keep them in the "highback" booster as long as possible too. It will protect their head and neck better. Again the less movement I told you about. When you switch to just the bottom booster youll see more room between head and car head rest.

google somehow to see a video rear end accident w/o head rest.(adult) The pick is still vivid in my mind from 8 years aog OUCH!!! then think of a tiny childs head.

Tip for adults as well the head rest is for safety of your head in case of whip lash. I know it can bug you sometimes but less movement less injury. Be sure your center of your head is not higher than the top of the head rest. I see those really old cars w/o them and cringe. Some newer cars seem to be forward a bit and you ll need to just get used to it .It is for better whiplash coverage.
Ever see on tv they take them out for the shots for some reason. more light not sure.

jvlmom- your comment to tmb about her comment to you" It's 5 pt. harness until 65 lbs. and turns into a booster"
the 65 lbs rating is for the just the harness straps at 71 lbs I am sure the booster part of it complies for weight limits of your daughter at 71 lbs.

you are blogging from home? I do from work to save money. I understand you may not be able to do so. do you have HIGH speed? if you do you would save money for just regular speed. Do you have movie channels? if so cancel them .

try ebay for car seat. you may be able to save money. I do this to save money on certain items.

No I dont have kids and I work . I am just trying to keep other kids safe. I bet I could find money in your budget.

So a year ago he made decent money you could have bought a good seat then. I am tired of discussing this with you.

So did the ins PICK your seat for you or give you a credit towards new ones? So you could have paid the differance for a nicer seat.

Hannah......Our daughter gets a happy meal twice a month my husband and I rarely eat out. We eat at home. The treat is for our daughter, our son is a picky eater so he eats at home also! So NO we do not eat out alot, we live a tight budget and that is just how it is! I was hit from behind in a car accident while pregnant with my son and the insurance company bought us a new car seat! Yes, I do drive to work and I have to drive in town, plus I have daycare for my son which thankfully is only part time BUT there is NO WAY I could be a stay at home mom with my husband losing his job a year ago and not making anywhere near what he was! So I am guessing you are a stay at home mom with a husband who makes a ton of money and we cannot all have that luxury!

no I am not rich. I do donate time and money to charities. I donated lots of time to help people install seats if you didnt read. YES there are safer seats if you can find the upper weight limits to keep children in the types of seats longer for each stage. I personally would find the money someway some how.

they used to have about 5 seats to donate every time they did a seat check up for those that cannot afford one.

Hannah: I'm all for purchasing the best for my children and fortunately I can but not everyone can and that does NOT make them bad parents. There are plenty of people out there that put their kids first but still may not be able to afford the $200 Eddie Baur seat. Somtimes, Hannah, even the grandparents aren't able to help as you suggested. Also driving 5 mph less than the speed limit might get you enough extra to buy the seat when the child doesn't need it anymore. Did you ever stop to think that some families are at the end of their budget and can't skimp anymore than they already are? It sounds like you have a lot of money, maybe you should donate a few to charity, don't skimp though, get the $150 dollar version for the people who can't afford them!

Also every seat that one could possibly buy at any store has to meet a minimum safety standard. I doubt there are any unsafe seats out there, some may provide more comfort but probably not much more in the line of safety!

Quit picking on the people who can't purchase to your standards.

as I mentioned cookie I had 4 days of training about 8 hours a day. I am just trying to help because they dont give much info in the article and not everyone will go to a car seat check up thinking they have it right. I did a lot of seat check ups and those who thought they were correct I could alway find errors. I have seen some CRAZY stuff too.

jvl- maybe grandma could help somehow with a safer- SAFEST i mean Seat.
I am sure you eat isnt there somewhere you could budget a bit less on food or something. Do you drive to work? hwy? if you drive 55 and not 60 that would save money. Just trying to help.

Question if you cannot afford a safer seat WHAT will you do if you do get into an accident and need a NEW seat will you get one? or use old one cause you cannot afford it?

Hannah, holy cow - you definitely have a fair amount of knowledge on car seats and safety as viewed by your several posts in a row????

Hannah.....I also DO NOT SMOKE and never have! I also am not a drinker and do not go to the tanning bed! You seriously need to get a life and stop assuming that because I cannot afford a friggin $150 car seat that I am too busy worrying about myself because that is FAR from true!

Hannah.....FYI.....I DO NOT get my nails done, do not buy new clothes etc....for myself! Do NOT have a cell phone and I ALWAYS look out for my kids first! I also DO NOT buy car seats from a rummage sale I have BOUGHT all 3 that I have had from Toys R Us, but are on the lower price scale because that is what I can AFFORD! Maybe you should have a husband who lost his job because of GM and took a $10/hr paycut and then we will talk! We do not do extracurricular activities because they simply cannot be afforded! My husband and I always go without so that our children have what they need! So, you can go take a jump somewhere and back off!

here is another one I thought of if we are talking about used seats at a rummage sale.

If that seat cover gets dirty and grimey DONT WASH IN THE WASHER. Check your directions this may have changed but I doubt it. That fabric is flame retardant and if you wash in the washer it may lessen the effectiveness of it.

mrs joe- yes good point- Idont recommend buying them from a rummage sale for that reason. Sorry I didnt elaborate in that BUT PEOPLE WILL still buy from a rummage sale. REMEMBER the lady here that cannot AFFORD a good seat.Shell prob save the money and buy form a rummage sale and not know about the seat. Maybe youll find a NEW seat at a rummange sale that just wasnt the right size for child or car and they didnt want the hassle of returning it. some people are like that.I think I mentioned if you dont know about the seat DONT buy it. It isnt worth the saving to NOT KNOW. IF you got it from a friend HOPEFULLY they are honest and can remember that it hasnt been in a crach. Like I said there are so many tips to concider.

Hannah- you said: "DONT buy a seat from a rummage sale with outany info on it- age- model number to check for recalls- weight restraints"

THEN you say: "If in a crash DISCARD and cut in half so nobody else can use. theyre only good once even though you may not visably see damage."

Which is it? How do you know the carseat you buy from a rummage sale WASN'T in an accident? Better info is what I've known since my son was little (10 years ago) is to NEVER buy a used carseat. Like a helmet. Once it's been in an accident microscopic cracks can't be seen and in an accident...well...bad news.

sorry as I read I keep thinking of more tips for you.

If you have a head rest in the car that interferes with the car seat take if off!! A Lot of the car seats are tall and the cars head rest is slanted forward and it wont let the car seat set FLUSH with the back of the cars chair. take the head rests off and put in the garage dont leave in the car unless you would like that as decor in your skull!! not a good thing to be flying about the cabin!!

I have seen kids in harness that weighed to much for the harness- be sure to watch the weights- child could RIP right through the harness in a crash in case you were wondering WHY there are weights cause the harness is made only for so much weight. seat too.

jvlmom- I know you prob wouldnt save for a safer car. That can help too.

jvlmom"the car seats that are able to keep rear-facing up in the higher weight range also cost ALOT! Very expensive to buy, that money is just not there with this economy so then what do you do?"

are you kidding me- when your child is broken up HOW MUCH WILL THAT COST?? I sure this doesnt compare in price to an er visit or worse- funeral? disablities? pain and suffering- let me guess youll just sue the other guy but maybe it was your fault "because it cost to much" to protect my child correctly.

"what do you do"
skimp on something else- nails, hair, smokes, beer? tanning?cell phone for a month or video rental or less dining out or well you could buy some life ins for child - that may be cheaper than a BETTER car seat.

most cars have knee bolsters to keep you uprite and postioned in the correct place so you dont slide and belts keep you in place . Another reason to be sure they are on you in the coreect place. It all works together to keep you safe.

concerned- you are prob one angry if cars get totalled now- they are built now to take most of the impact vs your body taking the impact so they need to crumple up. If you look in your hood you will actually see the marks along the side where it will bend and the engine will drop so it doesnt land in your lap- GEE "back them" you be kissing the engine in an accident.

concerned"Sitting in the front seat is only dangerous to a child if the vehicle has a passenger side airbag, and if one is wearing their seatbelt, airbags are redundant, "

wow you have a lot to learn dont you.
EVERY BODY IS SAFER in the back seat but cannot drive from there now can we so why not keep your small children safe!!???

THe front air bag really has nothing to do with this if theyre belted in. Most only come out 12 inches SO IF you must put a child in the front seat but sure to oush seat all the way back so air bag wont make contact with child. LIKE I SAID SO MANY TIPS to tell in only 30 minutes when we train for 8 hours 4 days.

the side air bags may not even touch childs head BUT it keeps any GLASS away from passangers. Do you really think they spend all this extra money and research on airbags because theyre not good??!!

REAR FACING IN FRONT SEAT IS a nono because you cannot keep air bag from the back of that car seat and slamming child into the seat.

"We both turned out fine"
maybe you think so. did you get into a wreak- no I am guessing so you really cannot compare.

My mom used to use the arm out in front of me in quick stops if we actually hit something she prob would have gotten her arm snapped off by my body-- weightx speed!! and she was about 110 lbs

concerned"my wife's mom carried her on her lap in the front seat when my wife was a baby. "

oh my FAV one

baby weight x 2x times speed- equals approx weight that you would have to hold back while also be involved in the accident -NO even superman cannot hold on to that in a crash.
I may have the x2 part wrong but weight times speed is scary enough!!

"ConcernedCitizen_aka_Disgusted
Sep 15, 2009 at 10:52 a.m.
Suggest removal Shouldn't this be up to the parents?"

NO . They will do what they want but should be in trouble if not done correctly!!

I had a lady insist I turn her rf seat forward and was angry when Inwouldnt. I said I am here to help and I WILL NOT turn your 6-8 month old and like 16 lbs forward facing. she said "you have too" I said NO WAY. It isnt recommended and I will not- and then you sue my butt I dont think so. That Is why I dont check anymore I am to worried about the personally liability- they say we cannot be sued but recommend we get extra ins "just in case" I told her I will show you the correct read facing and WHEN baby is ready for ff I will show you that. I am pretty sure she took kid home and ff the seat . It was a combo one. ANd prob did it wrong. SO child in even more danger. I ASKED WHY do you want to do this. "I want to SEE my baby and she can see me. I said do you sleep with your baby? NO was the obvious answer. SO WHY would you endanger your baby?

remember licence to drive but not have kids!!

yes you sat on lego box- a lot of things were differnt then. SPeed limits, traffic(less)- no cell phones-RESEARCH!!

bbwil"Second, the mirror in the picture is fine.."

I am going by what the training books say for acces- NO. If that seat flies forward it could hit the mirror. It could fly forward if not tethered to the back of front seat. It isnt required to tether the top of the front seat part down but I recommend it to keep it as sturdy as possible.


joeschmo"Also, not mentioned is that your child should stay in a seat with a 5 point harness...."
That is why I mentioned some of these things- like the keep in harness to as long as possible.

janesvillean- youre welcome- I put some tips in here because although ALL should go to a clinic but some wont they think there seat is fine or installed properly. And like I said so many things to look for the trainer may miss something too.

YOu should go for each type of install as child changes seats.

yes janesvillemom- you have to be sure the car has a locking mechanism or you need a locking clip.

1- if seatbelt has the locking device- yes pull out all the way then compress seat and lock up- ONE MORE TIP HERE- it is very hard to do this I Would recommend 2 person job. ALSO when you lock belt into place unclick and feed one more click of that seatbelt then re click to get it in the tightest. It seems it is always in between the clicks . I am sorry I am such a terrible writer explain this stuff
2- if your locking device is one the seatbelt buckle I STILL USE A C CLAMP to BE SURE it is locked position BECAUSE sometimes if the angle isnt EXACT thell loosen and not stay locked.

3- if you dont have either of these locking devices you need the locking clip. IT goes no more than 2" from that buckle connection- NOT on other side of seat not 1 foot from it etc- I have seen it all and make sure it is on correctly- I have seen them upside down. Also you may want to use same method I just told you about if belt is auto retract to get it in tightest position. It is easier to mark where it goes and un click it -then put on clip then buckle in again. TRUST ME!!

bbwil....my daughter is 71 pounds so what do you suggest I do with her? She is in a booster with the seatbelt...is that unsafe too?!?!!? I am out of options there!

tmb.....bbwil....do you both have $150 to give me to buy a seat? That would be wonderful! My kids are the loves of my life and yes their life is priceless, but you cannot get blood from a turnip! This economy sucksand when you have a parent lose their job and do not have that money then what????!?!?!?!?!

Extended rear--facing carseats don't have to be expensive and it's a little expense worth your child's life. I guarantee a funeral is a lot more expensive than a carseat that could save your child's life.
Also I would keep a child in a 5 pt. harness for as long as possible. You can get a Graco Nautilus at Walmart for $150 and it's the only seat the child will ever need once they are forward facing. It's 5 pt. harness untill 65 lbs. and turns into a booster. It's much safer than a booster seat.

It is safer in both head on crashes and rear end collisions for toddlers to be rear facing. Rear end collisions are statistically at MUCH lower speeds, 20mph or less (I don't know the exact statistic, sorry) and the car continues to move when hit, meaning, it does not come to a complete quick halt as it would in a head on collision, so the motion continues and there is less force. Does that help?

Do they mean safer for head on crashes? Wouldn't it be the opposite for getting rear ended then?

Jvlmom, you can get a seat at Walmart, called the Cosco Scenera, for under $50 that will rear face until 35 lbs.
http://www.walmart.com/Cosco-Scenera-Con...

Also, a high weight harnessing booster may be a little pricey, but a childs life is priceless. Check Babies R Us for coupons and promotional deals, they are always offereing something. An adult seatbelt on a child that SHOULD be harnessed is not safe in a crash.

My son was off the charts huge (over the 95% line) and he was rear-facing until 15 months. That was 8 years ago too, way before these recommendations. It was just clear to me that in an accident, having his spine and head totally supported was a lot safer. Sure his legs were bent, but he didn't care, he was flexible. My younger child was rear-facing until 18 months. Also used a 5-point harness until she was almost 6 years old. Both use boosters now and will until they reach the height/weight limits. I mean if you know it is safer, why not do everything to protect them.

How did anyone ever survive to adulthood without all of this nonsense? It's amazing humans didn't just die out, as fragile, stupid and dependent as we as a species seem to have become!

I agree with the height & weight requirements that others are talking about. My son is in the 90%+ percentile for kids his age & I am going to turn him forward-facing as soon as he turns a year. He's squished in his rear-facing seat!! I applaud parents who are pushing for these age laws, but sometimes you do have to look at children on an individual level. Good luck to all you other parents out there on this decison!!

I sort of agree with this, but I also disagee with it! Both of my children are very tall for their ages and have very long legs! I tried to keep my son rear-facing but his legs were squished and he got very upset. Also, the car seats that are able to keep rear-facing up in the higher weight range also cost ALOT! Very expensive to buy, that money is just not there with this economy so then what do you do? Bad parents because you turn your child around in car seat??? My daughter who is 6 is in a booster seat, I would love to have her in a 5-point harnass but too expensive for the seat!

http://aapnews.aappublications.org/cgi/c...

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The new recommendation just came out in April and I guess the haven't updated their web site.

"Maybe I'm missing it but I don't see where the AAP recommends 2 years old to stay sitting backwards. I see it at at least 1 year and 20 lbs." --Ouisch Sep 15, 2009 at 10:09

http://www.aap.org/family/Carseatguide.h...

I was thinking the same thing after researching the facts that were presented. The new information sounds good, but until the AAP makes any formal changes it would appear that Wisconsin laws are not outdated at this time. The law is confusing enough, why not make sure the public understands the basic law prior to confusing them more.

I agree with Baymom 100%. Child seat use should be based on ht. and weight, not age. I think, not 100% sure, that if you are 80lbs. OR (not and) 8 years old, you do not need a booster seat. However, I know an 11 year old who is pushing only 70lbs. and as tall as a 3rd grader who is 8. She should be in a booster seat until 80lbs., not just based on age. The age reqmt. is a scam and should be abolished. Ignorance to base child seat use on age at all.

michellemt640, I know many women who smoked through their whole pregnancies and had babies with no problems. Thank you for bringing up yet one more example of the fear-mongering that permeates our society.

MOC0428, I don't espouse these techniques, clearly a lego box and/or "the baby crusher position" are not good methods of child restraint. I do believe that car seats and their ilk are by and large good things, and far safer that the alternatives. However, this does not meant they should be mandated by law. Micromanaging is not usually necessary, and creates more problems that it solves. Laws and technologies change, but reality doesn't.

ConcernedCitizen_aka_Disgusted, just because you did it, doesnt make it right.
They also used to tell women to smoke while pregnant so they would have smaller babies and easy labors.

concerned citizen: It is because of people like you that there are laws like this. Use some common sense before you write. You turned out fine (debatable) because your parents never got into a horrific accident whilst you were sitting on your Lego box. That does not make it alright, it just means you beat the odds of getting into a car accident. People like you are what make blogging so fun, if you didn't blog I would never in a million years think that someone like you actually exists! Common sense goes a long way if applied.

Shouldn't this be up to the parents? I used a lego box as a booster seat when I was a kid, my wife's mom carried her on her lap in the front seat when my wife was a baby. We both turned out fine. Sitting in the front seat is only dangerous to a child if the vehicle has a passenger side airbag, and if one is wearing their seatbelt, airbags are redundant, serve no purpose, and should be disconnected as soon as soon as one purchases a vehicle. Hyperlegislation of day to day childrearing is not good for anyone and goes against everything our country stands for.

Maybe I'm missing it but I don't see where the AAP recommends 2 years old to stay sitting backwards. I see it at at least 1 year and 20 lbs.

http://www.aap.org/family/Carseatguide.h...

"...it is best for her to ride rear-facing to the highest weight or height allowed by the manufacturer of her car safety seat."

If you are going to extend the use of a rear-facing seat, please use safety precautions such as putting something you need in the back seat (brief case, purse, etc.) and putting a reminder (teddy bear, etc.) in the front seat. According to experts, the way the human mind works, if you have ever forgetten where you put your keys you are also capable of forgetting a child is still in a rear seat when you are in a rush, which risks hyperthermia to the child. There are several very good articles about this: http://healthmad.com/children/children-l... This has happened to intelligent people -- doctors, even a NASA astronaut. If your life is busy -- and whose isn't these days -- follow these precautions.

Ideally, the law would use height and weight requirements, rather than age ones. I know a family whose twelve year old still needs, and uses, a booster seat. By Wisconsin law, he shouldn't be in one, but due to his small stature and light weight, he's safest using one. On the other hand, I know families whose children have been too tall and too heavy for a carseat before passing the "legal" birthday to switch to a booster seat. Clearly, the safety issue has much more to do with body build than with age.

I can assure everyone that the carseat in the picture IS at a 45% angle.

One other thing I found when I checked my sister's carseat install. After installing the carseat, pull the seat belt all the way out and then let it back in so it locks in place. If your seat belt doesn't lock in place after being pulled out, you need to use a locking clip (little metal piece shaped kind of like an I that should come with your car seat and is probably snapped under it somewhere).
*
Thanks Hannah and Mrs. Albrecht and the Gazette for highlighting this important issue!

First of all, awesome article. Thank you Elizabeth! It's great to see such an important topic in the Gazette.
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Second, the mirror in the picture is fine. It appears to be attached with a hook of some sort, making it a non-projectile. Now, "accessories" attached with velcro or suction are not as secure and should be tied down or removed.
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@joeschmoe: Toddlers are VERY flexible and limber. They can sit with their legs crossed, propped up on the back seat, or hanging off the side of the carseat. As someone else mentioned, a broken leg is much easier to fix than a broken neck. And besides that, many nicer seats have a rear facing tether which keeps the seat from rebounding in a crash, so the threat of broken legs or hips isn't even an issue.

@JoeSchmo-
A leg or hip injury is much easier to fix. The 5x safer refers mainly to spinal and neck injuries and death rates. I would rather have my kid is a cast from having his legs squished than having him break his neck.
Also, kids in Europe stay rearfacing till about 4 years old. Their seats have rear facing limits upwards of 45 pounds. Unfortunetly, those same seats are not approved for use here in the US

Thanks hannah for your passionate additions to this article.

I don't understand how a child over 1 can stay in a rear facing seat- Their legs are too long and they have to be bent or off to the side. Look at the picture, her legs are all curled up! How is that safe?
Also, not mentioned is that your child should stay in a seat with a 5 point harness (not the booster with the seatbelt) for as long as they can- according to the height and weight requirements of your individual carseat. The 5 point harness is the best in accidents and the safest for your child.

tie down the items in your car that could be launched into somebodies head in an accident.

seatbelt YOURSELF so you dont get launched into your belted babies head. YES it can happen.

that mirror in the pic is a NONO- those toys are not crash tested and should be there!!

if you add anything to the seat DONT unless it comes with the seat it hasnt been crash tested with the seat. example those cute little fuzzy things could get in the way in an accident and prevent the seat or straps from doing their job correctly.

I do know about this stuff - training was for 4 days in a row and 8 hours a day.


Iwould have to guess this rear facing seat in the pic is NOT at 45 degrees. it is to up-rite!!

I have seen the handles in a up position too. you need to lower them in their locked position.


"A child's body just isn't ready for a forward-facing crash at that age"

sorry but NO BODY is!
use some of these tips on yourself as well
if in crash you need new belts they only stretch once.

Made sure it is close to your body. so no forward movement
make sure it is in the correct position over you illiac bones that are near your hips so the belt doesnt tear into your organs.

That is why you put kids in a booster to elevate them to get them in the correct spot for the belt.

wear your shoulder harness to prevent whiplash.


do you know there are three crashes in an accident
crash of car
crash of you in the cab
and dont read of squeamish- crash of your organs inside of you.

one more kids should be in the back seat till age 11-12. safest place for them- dont "treat them" by putting them up front.

NEVER a rear facing in the front seat. "but I only have a reg cab truck" so get a SAFE truck!!!!


sorry I hope I helped I just want people to be safe too!! they could list some of these pointers in the article cause you may get somebody that doesnt do the check well. I hope not but some people dont do their jobs well and there are tons of points to remember.


you even need to be careful where the childs legs hang compared to the seat and the back of the front seats.

if rear facing be sure straped (behind the child) are below the bach of the shoulders to prevent sliding up in accident.
Forward facing they are ABOVE the shoulder.

make sure harness straps are in straight all the way threw and flat. NO twisting ANYWHERE.


be sure harness clip is on correctly and threaded correctly. It should also be right under the arm pits- inline with pits I mean. YOu sould only be able to fit your fingers in behind straps. The looser they are the more movement forward the child will do in accident. You dont want movement you want then to be a PART of that car seat.

TAKE off the bulky jackets while in the car. you can put it back on them backwards AFTER you strap them in- again less movement!!

A seat properly installed shouldnt move more than an inch back and fourth.

with rear facing it may move upwards so you can get that tether straped down to something. But the side to side is the important part to get it in tight.

make sure you use a belt positioning booster when they have outgrown the weight limits of a harnass- again harness is the safeist so keep them in that as long as possible and find the heaviest seat for using harness.

USE the booster. I think it is 80 lbs and 4'. I know some adults that would benifit form a booster- pillows are not safe. We could invent this boosters for adults- again watch your weight limits but belt posit booster should have a good weight on them.

There are so many other point to consider so you should go to a class.

ie head height on the booster. if head doesnt fall in center of booster and theyre to tall get a taller seat to protect head

I will try to give you some pointers on this as well.
" the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends children be 2.'
They say this because they are SAFEST refacing for as long as possible. If you can find a rear facing that has a heavy weight use that to the fullest.

READ YOUR BOOKLET!
REGISTER you car seat incase of any recalls

get rid of if over 10 years old. NOt sure if this is still the exact tieframe- they can only take so much heat and cold.

DONT buy a seat from a rummage sale with outany info on it- age- model number to check for recalls- weight restraints

if rear facing make sure seat is at safe level- dont alway use level meter it isnt exact. It should be at 45 degree angle. If you fold a piece of paper you can measure it.

If not use something that doesnt compress to get it to 45 degree- example- water noodle- rolled up towels or newspaper.


Compress seat to get baby seat in as tight as possible and check often to be sure it doesnt need to be recompressed.

If in a crash DISCARD and cut in half so nobody else can use. theyre only good once even though you may not visably see damage.
cont