By the way, I thought it might be helpful for you "teacher haters" to actually have some resources so that you can get your teaching degree and get all the pay/benefits/vacation time that teachers get. Websites to various Wisconsin colleges are listed below. See you in 4-5 years when you can breathe new life into the teaching profession. Good luck! You'll need it!
Whitewater
www.uww.edu/coe
Madison
www.education.wisc.edu

Scrapgirl, you are absolutely right! Why these posts turn so ugly, no one will ever know! I have said it over and over again, if we (posters) never got an education, we (posters) would not be commenting on here, we would sit around picking nits out of our offsprings hair like apes do!!! As for the ones on here commenting and complaining who have NO children, let it go, it is going to happen anyway, no matter what you put here!

I think most who are against the Teachers getting a raise are forgetting one most important thing: Your CHILDREN are in the school 7-9 hours a day, much longer than most parents are with their children (awake) on a daily basis. We are arguing about a 2% increase to their salary? Seriously? They DESERVE to be paid WELL to help raise our children and lead them into the right direction, so someday THEY won't be standing in the unemployment line as well. I have a Bachelor's Degree (not in Teaching) and NO, not ANYONE can do it....there were several students in the program who dropped out due to grades or other circumstances. Our children go to the Janesville Schools and we are PROUD of the school and the STAFF does a fantastic job! I don't have any problem investing the tax dollars to increase the teachers salaries~they are worth it!

I hope this all works out for the teachers as they deserve whatever they get. I will say as I know a few teachers in the district; most would have done without a raise and been fine with that. I'm glad the district finally is listening about the professional development sessions.

To all you jealous haters: LIFE IS NOT FAIR!!! Some are enjoying good times while many others are not, so why do you keep bashing the the ones that do well for themselves? We are all born with the exact same opportunity as anyone else. It all comes down to choices we make in life. If you are okay having an unskilled labor job then deal with the benefits (or lack of) that come with it. If you choose to become educated you might find yourself at the receiving end of a 1-2% raise in bad times. FYI, I received a raise of 2.2% in January and my company is 50% down since 2007, how does that work with all your blue collar logic? Life isn't fair get over it or do something about it besides complain.

BEST ARGUMENT EVER BY AN IDIOT
Any idiot can get one if they have the money and time.

Tech
"Because of an antiquated hiring system that assumes people are worth more because of thier degree"
I guess every proffession must have an "antiquated" hiring system including McDonalds because whether or not you are good at flipping burgers you start out at a certain dollar amount. I guess the same must be true for the governments "antiquated" minimum wage system as well.

BEST ARGUMENT EVER BY A TEACHER:

"Also, most teachers are at least fairly good at their jobs."

Your honor, I rest my case……

Kingrizzo/jqpubic - Because of an antiquated hiring system that assumes people are worth more because of thier degree.

Also, most teachers are at least fairly good at their jobs. In 20 years as a teacher, I've only seen a handful I would truly call incompetent. Most teachers work hard at their jobs and truly want to get better at it-some just need more mentoring than others.

I'm with you when you say that the focus need to be what's best for the students. That should be tought of on any decision by anybody in the district "is this best for my/our students?" But it can be true that non-disgruntled teachers are good for students.

bill, that's not really the point I was trying to make. I was saying that testing isn't the answer. In teaching, as in any profession, there are some who are better at their jobs than others. Finding a system to fairly and objectively evaluate teachers is difficult at best but there are systems in place in schools that aren't used well. There should be more emphisas on helping teachers who struggle to become better teachers. Those who really don't want to be there should get out, but the problem is when the've been doing it for 15-20 years and get burned out there aren't a lot of job options that pay as well as a 20 year teacher so they end up hanging on for those last years waiting for retirement.

And Katy, when it comes to the contract, management holds all the cards because they are the ones holding the money, especially in the bad old days of the QEO. The thing to remember is that this contract was approved by both sides, so the district must think it's a fair deal. I guess for those who disagree, school board members should be contacted and meetings attended until your voice is heard.

So many rebuttals, so little time...

The one that most motivated me to comment was the "Wisconsin's scores are 3rd highest in the nation." If one reads the article about WI ACT scores, it states, "Of the 27 states with greater than 50% participation on the ACT, Wisconsin is tied for third with Nebraska." Nationwide ACT participation is only 47%, so I'm not sure why this 50% figure was pulled out of the air.

If you go to the ACT website, you will see that nationwide, Wisconsin is tied for 17th with Nebraska in ACT composite scores. The high performing East Coast states prefer SAT testing for their college admissions and as a result, have lower participation on the ACT.

Another remark that made me bristle on this site regarded farmers not paying their fair share of taxes. How about businesses with their TIFs, which have a 20 year deferment of all taxes. School districts see bupkus taxes from TIF businesses for 20 years. This is particularly egregious in areas like Evansville, where I live, that has a very minimal industry/business base to begin with and the city tries to lure business with TIF. Then blames the schools for our high tax rate. Nice.

Finally, I think there was compromise in this contract. I'm not a big fan of how the teacher's unions usually have administration over a barrel on many things. But the raise is not retroactive to last year, so a concession was made there. It was probably worth a lot of money.

Now I'm ticked. rprp - Where do you (and others) get the assinine idea that "farmers don't pay their fair share of taxes"? Buy a farm, raise animals, grow a crop, pay your taxes and just see if you have anything else left over for yourself.

I'm sure glad MY salary negotiations aren't public record.

Hey, billnewbie, Major Frank Burns called: He wants his personality back.

Limit teachers to the average wage increase? The average wage increase for 2009 was 2.5% nationally and 2.1% for Wisconsin. Wage increases for 2010 are trending higher.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cewqtr.t...

So let me see if I can accurately characterize your point, Dtb. Teacher incompetence is too difficult to detect, therefore we shouldn't try? Or maybe you mean that since good teachers deserve raises we should give them all raises since we can't tell which are good and which are bad? In my view, since teachers have formed a union so that they can act collectively which gives them bargaining power and they use that bargaining power to protect their members from competency detection methods, then they must collectively bear the consequences of the incompetent among them that they collectively protect until such time that they help weed out the incompetent among them. Let's try to remember here the real victims of the union's resistance to improving competence, the students. And it's not just the teacher's union at fault here. The school systems have agreed to rules and procedures that make firing incompetent employees so difficult that they seem only willing to go through the process in the most egregious of cases.

Ultimately, the problem with public school systems is that they no longer put the interests of their students first. Instead, they put the interests of the school system employees first. That needs to change.

So bill, in the first half of your post, you decry "teaching to the test" and then in the second half you want performance before raises. How will performance be measured? By a test? I'm not against paying our best teachers more, but if that is measured by a test don't you think more teachers will only teach to the test in order to get a pay raise?

I'm hoping you had at least one teacher in your life you considered to be a good or even great teacher; someone who inspired you to want to work hard and learn. Did you get the best test grades from that person or is there more to education that what you can spit back on an exam?

So Woodyman77 thinks our ACT scores are just "slightly below the state avg" and therefore should not be a concern, let alone a standard for judging teachers' performance, unless you look at the overall state performance, and then it is. The fact is that student achievement has been falling for decades. We all know it's true. We've seen the results. The numbers of students needing more than 4 years in high school to graduate have been increasing. The number of college freshmen who need remedial classes also grows steadily. Businesses have to teach their fresh-out-of-high-school employees rudimentary skills that high schools should have done, that is if they'll hire them at all. Denying the degradation of our public school system is denying reality. And what are some of the public school solutions for these problems? Cut out "D" grades, teach "to the tests", revise tests to make comparisons with past student achievement impossible. Build new school buildings and pay teachers and administrators better.

The existence of incompetent teachers and their protection by their union are another fact our of public school system just as is the fact that all trade unions protect their incompetent members all over the country. The UAW protects its incompetent members as well. The difference is that incompetent work at the auto plant results in expensive warranty work that hurts GM's profits as well as degrading customer satisfaction meaning that GM's customers are more likely to buy something else the next time they buy a car. And so, as a result of that incompetence, the Janesville plant closed. In the public school system, the customers have little choice since almost none can take their business elsewhere and there is little chance of closing poor schools (especially when few will admit that there even are poor schools). There aren't any warranties. If Johnny and Mary can't read, taxpayers don't get their $11,000 a year per poorly educated student refunded, not even in part. There aren't any junk yards to send Johnny and Mary to for recycling. The victims of incompetent teachers are permanent human tragedies. So it’s my position that when the school system starts doing the job it’s meant to do, then it can ask for more money. Performance first, then pay increases. Not the other way around which is how we’ve been doing it for decades, with ever diminishing returns.

Woodyman - great posts. Phillip - I wouldn't say an average of 43k/year is "getting rich".

My Grandma was a teacher for 44 years, and she never once bitched about her pay. Granted, times are different now. But you don't become a teacher to get rich, now do you......

Nice posts, woodyman77. You listed many of my exact thoughts which I was too lazy to actually type out.

I would also like to take this opportunity to say that your grocery stores are top notch.

un employment isnt 30% but it certainly is not 10. that would be courtsey of the devine Reagan admin that thought itd be a great idea if the unemployment rate only counted those collecting benefits. so all of you not working and out of benefits, you dont count.
@Tech- "Cut their wages!! They all go around claiming that they do it "for the kids" and they say they would do it for free. They make so much money that all they do is pump out a steady stream of idiots and they want a raise? The days of GM wages are done and your bachelor’s degree means nothing. A bachelor’s degree is just as easy to get as a diploma from a Janesville High School. It means nothing." That is one ignorant post. To anyone who reads that , Ill bet a dollar to a donut that Tech is a disgruntled former gmer. All kids nowadayus have to get as much education as possible, the only way outta the trailor park. My god man how can you make a statement like that and pass it off as honest? There is no stat anywhere that supports anything to that end. It may be tougher , but your options are certainly more open if you are educated than not. Wkae up and smell what your droppin, because it stinks!

I for one am glad the teachers got a FAIR deal. Most of the clowns that hate the deal seem to hate unions and govt mre than they hate teachers. So whatever. I do take issue witha few of the "clowns" posting.
@ billnewbie- none of the hate govt Glenn Beck drivel you spew surprises anyone. However I would like you to back up your judgement of the educators performance being substandard. Where are you getting that data? I know the ACT scores were slightly below the state avg/ Of course the state that has the 3rd highest ACT scores nationally so maybe your expectations are a little high. I'd be a little more concerned with overpaid parking attendants if I were you. The waste in govt spending is certainly there , why do people like you continue to pick on teachers. Did you feel neglected in school? Get beat up? Trying real hard to figure out your angle, because everyone has one.
@ mjheckner- Seriously , anyone can go to a website and post numbers. ever think that the world is a little more grey than black and white? The teachers are bankrupting the state of wis? That might be one of the dumbest things ive ever heard. Of course educators will make above average salaries, they have an education, and must continue their educaton to stay licensed. That takes me to Sarah. How else do teachers continue to improve themselves professionally? Continuing education, only improves their skills. They pay for their own education I might add, how many people in the private sector are REQUIRED to keep takin college courses? Not too many. I have also addressed your merit based arguement in the past. It simply would create more beaurocracy and favoritism, and way more waste than there ever has been in education. Do you think continuously reviewing every educator say every three yrs is free?whats the process, who makes the call? are they impartial? lota unanswered expensive questions.
@miltonalum - I am sending my sons to the milton school dist. after reading your post comparing forklift drivers to teachers, i am seriously reconsidering that. Nothing wrong w operating a fork truck for a living, i did it for yrs, just not NEARLY as important as educating kids, sorry man. You should really think BEFORE you press enter, cheesh! whatta meatball!lol

Tech.. Do you have a degree? Time typically takes 4 years, and if you have no money you can get loans. I think you are talking out of you a**! Finishing college has to do with motivation. Also why don't you answer KingRizzos comment?

jq - time and money. And every once in awhile the kids in college get a little to into the party aspect.

I've made my feelings about teachers unions well known. If all of the good teachers had any idea how much they could be making if they individually negotiated their contracts, they'd be surprised. I don't know what that system would look like but the bad teachers would be washed out in a hurry and these school districts would be forced to compete for the best teachers. As a teacher, that's exactly what I would want. Put the pressure back on the tax payers and see just how much they value education. If they don't value education, they would get what they pay for. Right now there is no way to tell if money in equals results out because they bargain as a group. Anybody that thinks the union does not protect mediocrity and substandard performance is passing gas from where they brush their teeth. The union only exists because a majority of their members do not want to negotiate individually because they know or believe they are substandard. I think many teachers would be afraid of a system such as this but this fear would be unfounded. Top performing teachers right now are subsidizing poor performers, they just don't know it!

If any idiot can get one, why do they pay more?

TechMasterFlex: If any idiot can get a degree, then why is the college drop out rate at almost 50%?

Degrees do pay more you are 100% right but they mean you payed the money to get it. Any idiot can get one if they have the money and time.

People talking about bachelor's degrees being worthless are delusional, and, I’m guessing, trying to rationalize that they don’t have one.
In 2008 the average earning for a high school graduate was $591/week. Earnings for someone with an Associate degree were $736/week. Bachelor’s degree - $978. Master’s: $1288. Doctoral: $1500+. But yeah, they’re so easy to get and worthless, why bother?
Even more important, unemployment rates for those with just a high school diploma were 5.7 vs. 2.8 for a Bachelor’s degree, 2.4 for Master’s, and 2.0 for Doctoral. Still think those candidates with much education are too expensive and overqualified that nobody is hiring them?
You want a job that pays well? Get an education. The more the better, clearly.
EDUCATION IS EXTREMELEY IMPORTANT. Pay the teachers.

Teachers are the most important people in the world. Give them anything they want. Humans are incapable of learning without teachers. Give them more money and they will teach better and your kids will become smarter.

TechMaster I couldn't agree more. Bachelor degrees are worthless now days. I hate to say it most degreees are worthless. IF you have a PHD nobody wants to pay you for it, and is you have a masters degree, they say your underqualified.... If you have a Bachelor degree, Your not even considered! Bachelor degrees will be the minium requirement to flip burgers at Burger King really soon!

Cut their wages!! They all go around claiming that they do it "for the kids" and they say they would do it for free. They make so much money that all they do is pump out a steady stream of idiots and they want a raise? The days of GM wages are done and your bachelor’s degree means nothing. A bachelor’s degree is just as easy to get as a diploma from a Janesville High School. It means nothing.

As a mother of a child with special needs, I say the teachers deserve raises. The thing I think would help raise the students grades is to remove the distractions from the classroom. I know for a fact that the Janesville Schools do want to do that. My son is a constant distraction in the classroom due to being autistic and having ADHD. He freaks out often when things are out of routine and he also always has to be moving. He is not academically behind, but works better in classes with less children. So what is the schools solution, Rather than put him in a special education class with less students and more one on one, they give him a certain number of times to get up and walk around the classroom per day.... How distracting to the other kids. I not only feel sorry for my son because he has trouble controlling himself and as a result has all these other kids staring at him and making fun of him because they don't understand; I also feel sorry for the other kids in the classroom. How hard would it be to learn with a distraction like this. A kid that throws tantrums, has out bursts and is up walking around the classroom? These poor teachers unfortunately are stuck in the middle. They are stuck with challenging behaviors and other issues in children and yet stuck with high demands and obligations to please the learning of all the other children as well.... I think the teachers deserve a raise! I am not a teacher either!

rprp: Teachers and huge salary in the same sentence? You're kidding right?

"I have been waiting to hear what the taxpayers and especially students are going to get for this huge salary the teachers are going to get. Since farmers don't contribute their fair share of taxes, it appears the seniors and working families are getting stuck again. I wonder how many farmers and or people dependent on farmers are on the school board."

Yeah, those leeches of society - those that grow food for you and educate your children. What a bunch of scumbags.

I have been waiting to hear what the taxpayers and especially students are going to get for this huge salary the teachers are going to get. Since farmers don't contribute their fair share of taxes, it appears the seniors and working families are getting stuck again. I wonder how many farmers and or people dependent on farmers are on the school board.

There are selfless teachers all over Wisconsin giving up their jobs so that other teachers can make more money. Teachers should be so proud of themselves. Solidarity!

I like to wear cloths but usually opt for clothes.

If I make ASSUMPTIONS and every once in a while write in ALL caps, does that make me RIGHT?

It is good to see our hard-working teachers getting a reasonable raise. Most deserve a lot more.

bill....A huge majority of teachers and teacher unions do not want to protect bad teachers. It is the job of school administrations to document those things that serve to label that teacher as "bad." Having served as a Department Chairman, I can tell you that when the union is called in by an adminstration to become involved in such a situation, the union rep will ask for the negative documentation on that teacher. And often administrators have not "done their homework" in this area. The union then has no choice but to represent that individual.
And research tells us that standardized student tests are not a valid measurement of the quality of teachers. As I said earlier, Whitefish Bay teachers must all be excellent and those from areas of Milwaukee's inner-city must be terrible. There are a multitude of sociological factors that account for student performance in a much more valid way than standardized tests.

Congrats to all teachers, you deserve every penny. Don't worry about the dozen or so bashers on these blogs. Hopefully the increase in taxes will cause them to have to cancel their Internet service and stop writing their garbage. I'm glad you were able to get a small raise this year since you were frozen last year. Police, firemen, and county employees all got raises and their is no reason teachers shouldn't. I'm sure an extra $500 will help you cover all the extra pencils, kleenex, paper, etc. that you provide for those that don't have. Congrats again and have a wonderful school year.

getinvolved-Point taken, but the reality is just being a poor teacher probably falls out of the the "process" as you call it so the administration can't act.

sluggo- HHMMMM??

Well 4000 Gm and GM related businesses for a start. Shall I go on??

Anybody that SELLS anything are making less than they used to. People eat out less so waitstaff are making less. Okay if they got a raise FROM THE STATE I guarantee it is about .05 cents.

Sales people- furniture, cars, anything that is not NEEDED is not purchased anymore. Those WANTS are on hold and all that sell WANTS are making less money.

I think grocery stores are doing better BECAUSE people are not eating out as much.

CLOTHS SALES for school -I bet are down too.

JTR-I see you crawled out from under your rock to insult me again or did mommy let you back on the basement computer??

I am not insulting. I am just pointing out that maybe this year isn't the time for raises.
I guess they do still teach the HOMELESS!!

I understand many people are unemployed and taking pay cuts/freezes; however, there are other people (outside of teaching & education) who are getting raises and maintaining benefits. I have many friends and family members who received raises this year and maintained their health and pension benefits, and, no, they are not public employees. Not everyone in Janesville is unemployed or taking pay freezes or cuts. A 1% to 2% raise is not huge, and unless you are directly observing teachers in the classroom, how do you know that many are not doing their jobs well? Sure, there might be poor teachers out there, but there are always great, average, and poor employees at every job.

getinvolved - Awesome explanation! I was going to say the same thing.

frogger - Really? Who is "us"? The 16 year old kids at fast food joints are getting raises. Maybe you should go there.

momof5 "A raise should be based on performance and merit: not solely on how long one has been on the job." Consider your own statement here. A teacher probably wouldn't be on the job long if they were a bad teacher. The good ones usually stick around. What is wrong with this picture? Anyone? Don't you all realize our children/grandchildren depend on these teachers for an education. They will run the world someday, maybe before we are gone or after we are gone, we don't know. A 2% raise is not a big enough raise for all of this hoopla! Think again, us posters would not even be posting without the education we obtained in grade school, middle school and high school. Our future generations deserve the best. You cannot only look at one or two days, you have to look at the big picture of years and years from now. JMO

Here's part of the problem with our taxes the superintendent makes this statement "teachers should not be compared to the private sector with regard to pay increases but to the local"public" employees who are getting pay increaes..." With the economy in the state its in and for the city to make ends meet they are wanting to charge now for trash pick-up..and nickle and dime the avg. citizen.. I say NO public employee or teacher recieve an increase if the avg. citizen is having to take wage freezes or reduction in pay. In actuality the public worker is working for "us" not the other way around.

CallitasIseeit, teachers unions have nothing to gain by protecting bad teachers. Do you think they like the negative publicity or attention that person would bring the school? The real problem is that school administrations don't take the proper steps and do the necessary documentation to remove bad teachers. Districts and the unions have an agreed upon process for disciplining or removing inadequate teachers. For the most part administrators don't follow the proper procedure but then complain about a teacher or try to remove them without following the process. The unions job is to protect the process, not bad teachers.

SarahB, I am a teacher and I'm not against performance based pay increases but how would it work? How do you compare my teaching in an advanced class to another teacher in a remedial class? How do you judge the performance of a phy ed teacher to that of a band teacher? Who judges the performance of the teachers? Ideally it would be the administration, but from what I have seen time and time again they are so busy they barely have time to conduct yearly evaluations if they do them at all. Again, I'm not against it I would just like to see how it could actually work fairly.

And yes I'm aware that advanced degrees and experience CAN mean a whole lot, its just not automatic.

miltonalum and billnewbie said it perfectly.

Lately I've been hearing about many graduating with teaching credentials who cannot find a teaching job anywhere ...and just because they're new to the field doesn't mean they wouldn't be excellent teachers....its not necessarily advanced degrees and experience that make a good teacher or any other occupation, its the attitude and "want" to do a good job.

"They should be lucky they have the job"

Contrary to the beliefs of some here, many jobs are acquired because the person is a qualified candidate and provides a great service to the one signing the check and not because he or she was just the most convenient set of hands ready to get to work. Most teachers, like many other professional people, could not just easily be replaced if they go somewhere else. The district and the people who live in the district should be the ones feeling lucky that the teachers are willing to work there. That's the reason why you have to provide incentives like small pay raises and good benefits to attract and retain the best teachers. If you don't, another district will, and you'll be left with the candidates on the bottom of the stack of resumes. What happens to your test scores then?

frogger - I now see why you are so anti-teacher. The teachers you had obviously didn't teach you proper english. I guess I would be a little bitter too.

miltonalum- said it well.

They should be lucky they have the job, kept the SAME pay, and have benefits.

I am sure some have noticed that all three of these things are NOT happening to others.

Loss of pay to keep job
Lose job
Lose benefits!!
NEVER and pension to begin with.

Wait until things are better for raises like the rest of us.

The teachers joined a union so that they could act collectively. Collectively, the teachers here in Janeville have done less than a good job according to the only methods we have to measure that, test scores. Since the teachers have chosen to act collectively, it makes no sense to say that most teachers are good and some are not, therefore give raises since most deserve them. They collectively shelter the poor teachers among them. They then must also collectively accept the consequences of having those poor teachers in their collective group. Teachers want to be treated as a group, so we should treat them as one. As a group, they do substandard work. If they want more money, let them weed out the substandard members of their group first. Until they do, they must all accept the blame and the consequences for their collective substandard performance

It isn't fair to say people are not doing there jobs. The majority of teachers are doing a great job. The problem is the protection the underacheivers get as in almost any union.

Seems to me like this is just like the wall street bailout. Pay people for NOT doing their jobs.

Does anybody know the overall dollar or percent of raises given yearly for those teachers who take additional credits, receive advance degrees or meet longevity goals? What will be the true increase given when adding all of the changes in the wages?

My point about teachers not deserving a raise any more than joe the forklift driver is valid. I am not specifically comparing the 2 positions, as a broad generalization everyone across the board, education or not is taking concessions.
.
Teachers do not deserve a raise any more than any other employed person simply because they are "Teachers". Its not like you were drafted into the position and forced to work with kids. You chose that profession and most of you love it and we love you for it but that doesnt merit any special wage compensation simply because you do what you love.
.
Alot of teachers have a "better than you" attitude because they chose to work with kids. I am just curious why some of the teachers who posted on this feel they deserve a raise more than another profession other than the fact they are Teachers. what makes you better than the manager at the local department store?

KLC:
.
I'm glad the teachers got an increase. Most of you deserve it. I do want to say though that I'm sure not all deserve it. This is where the union is holding the good teachers back and the poor teachers are suckling with a smirk on their face. I personally know a teacher at one of the high schools that puts absolutely no effort in to his students learning. He won't come in before school and he won't stay late to help students with questions. If the teaching position was salaried and you had to go in for a yearly review and your increase was based on performance, I would be all for that. Some would get nothing and some might get 4%. That is how the world of pay increases should work.

"because THERE WAS NO INFLATION!"

FTFA: "Teachers went without a pay raise last year"

"three months vacation from day #1!"

And 75% of the salary they would make if they worked 12 months.

KingRizzo--I'm delighted Janesville teachers can "be confident that their salary will at least keep up with inflation." Those of us on Social Security got "zip" for COLA this year, because THERE WAS NO INFLATION! Everyone else--While debating how shabbily our educators are compensated, let's not leave out the benefit they always seem most reticent to acknowledge: three months vacation from day #1!

KingRizzo,let me put it into Janesvillese for you, "you ain't helping your cause, so put a cork in it". Thanks for listening, out.

"KingRizzo, I'm not sure why you are trying so hard to make your point. Most likely, you'd be better off, and more likely to be successful, arguing your case to a room full of chimps at the monkey house up at the Henry Vilas Zoo."

I have tried that but the zookeeper yelled at me after the chimps started screaming and throwing their feces around. That hasn't started here yet so I figure I'm doing well.

KingRizzo, I'm not sure why you are trying so hard to make your point. Most likely, you'd be better off, and more likely to be successful, arguing your case to a room full of chimps at the monkey house up at the Henry Vilas Zoo.

analertcitizen: that was my point. I'm guessing that the education level of adults is greater in Whitefish Bay. Now, I don't know that if that is FACT or not. So, for whatever hearsay is worth...

"Higher "degrees" don't automatically make better teachers"

No they don't but they do prove a level of education, don't they? What's with the quotes on "degrees"? They are a real thing. You go to school for them and earn them.

"I'm sure there are many teachers with the minimum qualifications that are much better ones than others with much more advanced "degrees""

That certainly may be true but how do you think it works out on average?

"More money doesn't automatically get or retain better teachers."

No, but less money just about guarantees worse retention, doesn't it?

Higher "degrees" don't automatically make better teachers, either....I'm sure there are many teachers with the minimum qualifications that are much better ones than others with much more advanced "degrees"....More money doesn't automatically get or retain better teachers.

Ok heres the thing for those who are complaining about the fact that their raise is so high(102%). GET A JOB

About unemployment....if two people employed at $16/hr full-time lose their jobs and those two people get full-time jobs where they only get $8/hr, thats actually the equivalent of 1 person totally unemployed, NOT 2 people "fully employed"....I'm sure the "official" bean-counters don't see it that way but its the only logical way of seeing it..There is a LOT more than 10 or 13% ACTUAL "unemployment".

"Mr. KingRizzo, I am sure you are a fine young teacher."

I am not a teacher.

MooShoo- That's a great start!

Thank-you Janesville School District. Your teachers did a fine job of educating my daughters and preparing them for higher education and the "real world".
*
Mr. KingRizzo, I am sure you are a fine young teacher. Your opportunities are endless. I suggest you take them somewhere else where they are appreciated.

Maybe the adult demograpic of the community referred to included the appreciation of the teachers that supported their kids, and more importantly the support that the adults gave to their children's teachers. I cannot believe the teacher bashing that goes on in these chat rooms.It's disgraceful.

I'm guessing the average adult demographic skews just a little bit differently than here in Janesville

"Automatic raises do nothing to support that end."

How about providing teachers with a reason for staying in the craphole that is Janesville? You want your kids to have a good education? Give young, talented teachers a reason to come to and stay in the greater Janesville area by allowing them to be confident that their salary will at least keep up with inflation.

Actually I'm originally from the Whitefish Bay area and the taxes there are very similar, percentage-wise, to what they are here. They also sincerely appreciate their teachers and rarely criticize them. Could that be the difference?

I am not saying the teachers do not deserve a 2% increase in salary, but that is a 102% higher increase than those without jobs are getting. Consider yourself fortunate.

As a teacher, I would like to share that I do not make anywhere near the stated average salary and just made my $430 monthly payment towards my student loans - yes, I worked through school, no I didn't qualify for grants, yes I did get scholarships. No, I am not complaining. Yes, I do think I deserve the 1-2% raise. Thank-you to those of you that appreciate what we do and thank-you to the Board and Union Leadership for working together to come up with a FAIR agreement. 99% of the teachers I know will continue to work very hard to live up to the ever increasing and harder to live up to expectations.

Either way, Gremmisr, your point is valid. We pay an awful lot of money, too much in most cases, to government workers on all levels.

I don't pay taxes in Whitefish Bay, NVgrf, I pay taxes here in Janesville to support Janesville schools, unlike you. And I want value for those taxes paid which means well educated kids. Automatic raises do nothing to support that end. As for inflated grades skewing the results, isn't that what standardized tests are supposed to expose, such as the ACT? Those tests expose the deficiencies of the Janesville school system. Giving blanket raises here to teachers and administration personnel only rewards that substandard performance.

"Teachers dont deserve a raise any more than joe the forklift driver at the local steel plant does"

Teachers are professionals. They require (advanced) degrees and certifications. Anybody with half a brain can learn to drive a forklift in about 30 minutes of training. Your comparison stinks.

"Sure they work with kids, they chose that profession, good for them."

Yes, good for them. Most of them love it. They also went to school for several years to earn their qualifications and expect that their compensation reflect their value. Fascinating stuff.

Sorry, the parking attendants are in Madison's parking ramps, not the solitary parking ramp in Janesville.

I heard on Ch. 27 news tonight that the 8 full time parking ramp attendants make an average of $41,000 plus benefits. Wouldn't that be a sweet deal?

Teachers dont deserve a raise any more than joe the forklift driver at the local steel plant does....Sure they work with kids, they chose that profession, good for them. Doesnt mean they deserve a raise any more than the next person.....

If unemployment is 13% that means 87% of the people have jobs. That's a lot of people. I know many people with 2 or 3 jobs. Maybe ya shouldn't have dorked around in school and actually learned some skills.

30% unemployment! Give me a break.

Way to pick the low-hanging fruit there, mjheckner. I bet your coworkers love you.

According to the Bureau of Economic Analysis, in 2001, Wisconsin had a per capita personal income (PCPI) of $29,196 which ranked 21st in the United States (including the District of Columbia) and was 96% of the national average, $30,413. The 2001 PCPI reflected an increase of 2.8% from 2000 compared to the national change of 2.2%. In 2001, Wisconsin had a total personal income (TPI) of $157,831,749,000 which ranked 19th in the United States and accounted for 1.8% of the national total. The 2001 TPI reflected an increase of 3.4% from 2000 compared to the national change of 3.3%. This is the latest data available, and the starting pay of a teacher in Janesville exceeds this. The argument stating that they're in poverty. You are either tongue in cheek, or a misinformed citizen. Either way, you have successfully bankrupted Wisconsin.

I have to make a correction, the data was pulled from the 2009 report from the Department of Instruction.

I THINK THE TEACHERS NEED A LOT BIGGER RAISE! I HAVE ALWAYS THOUGHT THE TOUGHEST JOBS IN THE WORLD ARE TEACHERS AND POLICE OFFICERS AND NEITHER ONE MAKE A LIVABLE SALARY. I HAVE NEVER HESITATED TO PAY TAX MONEY FOR THESE POSITIONS.

"Right about now, I think a lot of Americans would like to be earning the base with the benefits these teachers are earning."

I'm sure they would. They also wish they were anywhere near qualified for the positions that are earning the $50k average or even the low $30k level. But they're not, and that's why they're sitting at home whining on website comments about it instead.

Let's use actual reported data for 2010 for base rates for 180+ day contract for Janesville (district #2695). Low salary $31,920, High Salary $68,194, Average Salary $51,133. The district has an average of 10.92 years of experience. Let's not compare anything above a Bachelor Degree as the job doesn't change with the more education the teacher has. I don't feel a Phd. is required for K-8, or a Masters. This does go to show that educators are amongst the highest paid public servants. If teachers worked a 12 month cycle with 10 paid holidays and a max of three weeks vacation, they'd be about average for the skill and knowledge required to perform the job at hand. As for the overall economy of Janesville, at least they have jobs. Keep in mind; this does not include their fringe benefit, pension plan and health care. Right about now, I think a lot of Americans would like to be earning the base with the benefits these teachers are earning. As for the comparison to a Medical Doctor – oh, please.

Take a look at what the teachers make here.

http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dl...

sluggo- if we are all teachers then they wouldn't make any money.
We cannot all be teachers.

Just because unemployment is only 10% doesn't mean we all make the same amount of money as the year before. Also JANESVILLE WHERE WE LIVE IS NOT 10 %. I go by where we live. Not somewhere else.

I guess if they do get raises they better start shopping then.

So there are still people who believe the "10% unemployment" lie 'eh?...the REAL rate has to be around 30%...people lose a $15/hour job and get one paying half that and I'll bet if they're working 40 hrs a week they're STILL considered just as "fully employed"....what a JOKE!!....REAL unemployment is about 30%.

momof5: You just explained exactly why pay based on performance wouldn't work. You suggest that bad teachers run courses that are taken by kids because they are assured of an "easy A". If so many kids get A's, the bad teacher gets paid more. Meanwhile, the teachers really busting their humps trying to get the loser kids to open a book and just pass a class gets what, a demotion?

NVgrf....I see your point but I also 100% see and agree with what billnewbie is saying (did I really just say that!??!). Even in the building you taught in, there were teachers who didn't really teach. There were teachers who students would take their classes because it was an "easy A." A raise should be based on performance and merit: not solely on how long one has been on the job.

frogger: not everybody is suffering in this recession. A 10% unemployment rate (which is relatively high) means 90% employment. Lots of people are making more money this year than they did last year. JSD agreed to giving the teachers a raise because they know they deserve it - they have years of education and experience and without the pay increases will go somewhere else, leaving the next generation of Janesville youth with worse eduaction and a higher likelihood of being on the suffering end of the next recession.

I think teachers deserve a raise. Would you like to put up with some of the kids nowadays for 8 hours a day? I know I wouldn't. I give them credit for sticking to it. Our future generations deserve an education just like we got. JMO

bill...So Whitefish Bay teachers in your world would consistently "deserve" more money than those teaching in high poverty areas because their students always score higher on tests? Or what about teachers who inflate their student grades in order to meet your standards?

HEY FROGER....BECOME A TEACHER SO WE DONT HAVE TO HEAR YOU CRY YOUR $365 TO THE BANK

Neat in this recession we all suffer, lose jobs, lose income if we still have our jobs yet teachers get raises. NICE!
You should be happy you have your job, have pension, and benefits even if you have to FINALLY contribute like THE REST OF US do already.

grandy, I think a starting teacher makes around 35-40k. The top of the scale for a teacher is around 60k for a masters +30 credits. I believe the JSD uses around 45,ooo for an average. The 2% is per cell,so it depends where an individual is in the pay scale. There is a website which lists the annual salary for any State of Wisc. school district employee who holds a license.

nemesis the union leadership is elected by union members. Do you want the school board to meet and negotiate with over 700 people?

I wonder why couldn't the schools could meet with the teachers themselves instead of the school meeting with the union leadership.

It's too bad that we can't give merit raises to teachers based not on how well they do in school or how long they've been on the job but by how well their students do in school.