Go Bluedbirds, Fury, and Jets!!!!!

Oh, wrong thread.

Ed Stettin

Hank just so you know I'm at those city meetings as well. Thanks!

Over 224 comments and counting...this very blog demonstrates to me what a divisive issue this is, and what a terrible waste. Every time the government ice arena is in the news, this happens. People are just tired of watching the city throw away money as if there's an unlimited supply.

just-a-girl: Hate to tell you this, but if this is put to a referendum vote, you can be sure that the majority of the votes will be against this. That is most likely why this issue is not put to a referendum vote.

Our city government just doesn't get it. Maybe they should read the new post here in the Gazette
"Hunger up dramatically in southwest Wisconsin" or maybe they just don't care. We do not need to give $2 million to a private sector either! Let them pay for it themselves. None of our tax money should go for this ice arena. PERIOD!

Hank it seems to me that you have it all figured out and that by reading the Gazette, you know everything there is to know about anything and everything anyone person would need to know. So I'm not real sure why you work with HVAC to be honest. I have an idea you should be on city council and solve all the cities problems. No new ice arena would solve all the tax problems in the fine city of Janesville right? Oh and wait using that money instead for a drug/alcohol rehab would solve the major drug problem in the city wouldn’t it? Here's an idea why don't you and everyone else who is opposed to the new rink pull your head out of your you know what and suck it up because like it or not it's coming, now it’s our job to make it something positive for the city and quit making it a constant sore subject for everyone!

Zoom - Stop it!!! You can't prove Hank incorrect.He might go away, and where would I get my entertainment?

Hank, the Dubuque ice arena received funding from the following government agencies:
-$675,000 from The Community Attraction and Tourism (CAT) Program (CAT operates with appropriation funding by the Iowa legislature)
-$50,000 from The City of Dubuque
-%50,000 from the County Board of Supervisors

Folks, you can't argue with Hank. Don't try to convince him, it just fuels the fire. If you want the truth, just contact any member of the JYH Board of Directors. If you can get to this blog, you should be able to find their website.
Hank - Make sure Grandma wears her safety harness when she cleans those "coils" as they are about 12 feet off the ground on the north side of the rink!! I wish you had been around when we had that relay go out and put the rink out of commission for two months.Those darn liars said that we were lucky that they still had a guy who could build one from scratch since the old one was thirty years old and they didn't even make em anymore.

Hank - Just because you own a chain of harware stores doesn't mean you're an expert on refrigeration.

By the way, have you ever called Mr. Levitt, or anyone on the City Council, or even the Gazette, about the $5 million cost estimate you think is incorrect?

"Every time these has been a problem at the Ice Rink has been simply the coils outside are dirty, and need to be hosed off which is a five minute job even my 90 year hold Grandma can do."

The last time there was a problem, the arena was closed for two months. Did you call anyone to explain that it just needed to be hosed off?

From the article: "Council members opted to give the group public money because renovating the old ice rink on Beloit Avenue would cost an estimated $1.5 million. And the city could locate a new fire department on the site of the current ice arena, saving the city $1 million in land costs."

Until someone can come up with facts to disprove the cost and savings estimates, I'd say building the new arena is a no-brainer, since money has already been budgeted for the arena updates.

Hank...so if you are "certified" and can work on the OLD arena cooling system and save all the taxpayers all this money, why don't you volunteer to keep the OLD facility up and running, since it's sooooooooooooooo good and sooooooooooooo easy???? I'm just asking....I mean you could save all the taxpayers loads of dough...right?

Forgetting about the roof for a moment, the problem is that the ice system is 35 years old. Do you keep repairing an old system every year and deal with the downtime, or at some point do you replace it, because the long term cost is cheaper? The refigerant used has never been a main issue. A brand new arena won't last until 2070 either without updates, so your argument doesn't make sense.

The money to update the current arena has already been budgeted for 2010. Again, the question remains, does it make more financial sense to spend $1.5 million now for updates that might meet our needs for the next 10 or 15 years, or spend $2.5 million for a brand new arena double the size?

By the way, have you ever called Mr. Levitt, or anyone on the City Council, or even the Gazette, about the $5 million cost estimate you think is incorrect?

The city estimates it will cost $1.5 million to update the current ice arena (new ice system, which is obsolete, new roof, etc.). That's why spending $2.5 million of $5 million for a brand new, two-sheet facility is being discussed.

Hank: You could be right. But when it's easy tax money being spent, why not just throw more money at the problem and build a whole new facility? Mark my words, we will STILL be talking about this white elephant in 2020, and 2030, and beyond, until some responsible city officials step forward and save us all from further waste.

THE WHITE ELEHANT ARENA DISCUSSION CONTINUES...DON'T BUILD IT...TAXPAYER BURDEN!

Hank again were do you get your numbers. You say only (%15) 30 kids or so only live in Janesville. You are so way off on this. Again were is the proof. A lot of the costs are going to be saved with using stuff from the old rink. Other costs will be saved with volunteers. $11 is your number not the citys or anbody else's

JTR: You said "Superdave - So what you're trying to say is that you would charge an extra fee for the city services that you personally don't use".
NO. What I am saying is...re-read my post, it's all there.

Again Hank thinks the cost is $11 million he is in his own dream world of made up numbers. Hank if you could ever post anything accurate we may attempt to listen to what you have to say but most all of your information is disproved. Double check your info before posting saves us from having to comment negatively on your post that are inaccurate.

Hank - hehehehe. You're funny. Is #5 really a public service?

No, Hank is still and idiot, and now you have joined him gonefishin. The last thing Scott and his family need is his phone ringing because you knot-heads posted his name and number from your "current" information.

Superdave - So what you're trying to say is that you would charge an extra fee for the city services that you personally don't use. Thanks for clarifying.

Gonefishin - You really are stupid aren't you. You got so excited because you found a link that proved Scott Brady was currently part of Janesville Youth Hockey. The part you didn't realize is that your link was from 2005. You may not know it, but we are currently in 2010 and there is no Scott Brady that is part of Janesville Youth Hockey. You look very foolish when you try to prove a point but you are using information that is 5 years old.

I'm not sure if you're comments about going back to high school was your attempt at trying to make me look as stupid as you, but if I were you I'd keep trying. If you have time, maybe you could find a link that lets everyone know who was involved in the hockey program back in 1990.

JTR: You said "Superdave - You are absolutely correct. I'm also sick of those out-of-towners using the roads that I paid to have plowed".. etc. Your sarcasm notwithstanding, and at the risk of stating the obvious, I would amend my previous statement to say "I see no problem with charging non-residents a much higher fee to use CERTAIN city facilities" (e.g. swimming, golf, etc.).
Again, it's a matter of degree. Certain basic facilities (roads, trails, sidewalks, etc.) are open to the public to facilitate the common benefit of transportation and access to places near and far. This does not justify the city spending one red cent on a government ice arena, this is not a basic service and not in any way consistent with the purpose of city government.
Your logic is, we have roads that everyone (resident and non-resident alike) can use for free; therefore we should have whatever sports facilities some people might want, and make them available to everyone. If you're not interested in paying for a government ice arena, well too bad. Out of job and can't afford to pay your bills now? Too bad. Senior citizen on a fixed income? Too bad.
This is just another example of government waste, plain and simple. The fact that some people want an ice arena paid for by their neighbors makes it no less wasteful.

gonefishin- JYH elects 5 new board members every year. They serve for three year terms. Scott and Marge served their terms, and provided great leadership during that time. They are no longer on the Board, but are still valued members of the hockey community.
Hank- What developer built Rockport Pool and gave it to the city?

Gonefishin - Wow, you really showed him. Nothing like posting a link from 2005 to prove your point. Let's all jump in your time machine and go back to 2005 and then you can gloat all you want.

Who needs to do a little research?

There isn't a Scott Brady in the Youth Hockey Club. Again, Hank is an idiot!

Superdave - You are absolutely correct. I'm also sick of those out-of-towners using the roads that I paid to have plowed. I think they definetely should be charged double to drive on our roads. The nerve of some people. I think if we just set a collection can at all city entrances that it would solve a lot of problems.

It's all a matter of degree. Yes, people from outside the city might stroll through the park, swim at the pool, ride down the trail. As a practical matter, it would be hard to keep non-residents out of public spaces!
But I see no problem with charging non-residents a much higher fee to use city facilities, perhaps double(?).
As a hockey parent, your motivation to support a government ice arena is obvious. However it is still a huge waste of money at a time when the city can ill afford such a waste.

SuperDave, I guess this means that anyone outside the city limits better not use our parks, bike trails, city pools.

SJ1981: Regarding your complaint about Hank, thank you for confirming that "there are some involved that do not live within the city limits". This bolsters the idea that it's just plain wrong to tax certain individuals so that certain select "others" can benefit. If an ice arena is needed, get the government out of the way and let the free market provide it.

Hank, I know several of the people involved with the Youth Hockey program and a few from the figure skating club. The majority of them live in or around Janesville and many of them have grown up in this community. My child was in youth hockey and most of the kids on the team were from Janesville. You are correct that there are some involved that do not live within the city limits, however they pay thier dues like everyone else. Hockey and Figure skating make up a great deal of the money coming into the ice arena. Everyone of these kids has to pay to get ice time. Many of the people involved volunteer thier time to help kids learn how to skate, play hockey. You do not strike me as a person who volunteers or donates, instead a person who likes to complain a lot.

Hank were do you come up with these numbers. Were is the proof.

Hank - You are wrong again. It's less than 0%.

The "We all pay taxes on things we don't support or agree on" argument doesn't wash. That is just giving up! You might as well say "We all pay taxes on things we don't support or agree on, so I have no problem with dumping truck fulls of money off the Centerway bridge." Makes no sense.
Ed, as I said in my last post, what is the proper purpose of government? If you want to improve the "quality of life", isn't it better to do it with freedom? Do you honestly think that government can do a better job than you can?
Your argument is analogous to the way things work in DC - you vote for pork in my state (or district) and I'll vote for pork in yours. Then everyone loses because the pork has to be paid for by someone!

Super Dave,

We all pay taxes on things we don't support or agree on.

Using my tax money to improve the community and quality of life of my family and the many other Janesville familys who will use these rinks, is acceptable to me.

Exactly how much is it going to cost each one of us Janesville residents? Do you know?

In a sense, I agree with you. To bad we can't pick and choose what we pay taxes on. I think it may possibly solve alot of problems in society if we did. A fixed tax rate for all, based on gross income, and the TAXPAYER decides where their tax money goes in the community. That would be real representation and giving the power back to the people. Totally eliminate politics from the equation. Let the people decide. How would you feel about that? I bet those rinks would be built much quicker.

I am tired of seeing my tax money spent on programs I don't support.

Tell me what you would like to see the money spent on and please be specific.

By the way, I would spend mine on improving the quality of life for my family and I.

Ed Stettin

JTR: That's not what I said (sigh...).
Ask yourself this question - what is the proper purpose of government? Government has the power to tax, and thus the power to destroy. It is important for citizens to keep track of what their government is doing, and whether it should be doing it! Keep in mind that every tax dollar the city spends is a dollar taken from someone, irrespective of their financial situation. Should a 90-year-old woman living on a social security be forced to pay for an ice arena she might never even see?

Superdave - So now the city should only be spending money on things that make money? How much revenue do the parks in Janeville bring in compared to what it costs to maintain them?

Superdave- I vote yes as long as Ed pays for you and me forever!

The just did a "study"
open skate on Friday and Sat generates as much money as the Jets do. The confusing part was the year to date total because the jets didn't start until late in the year. They said the ice isn't open as much in the summer or something like that.

mespl: No problem with rain, it's all inside :O)
Ed Stettin: Thanks for telling us how best to waste money. Naysayer - funny! And here's a point that's sure to go way over your head: Even if the ice rink is enormously popular, it's still an inappropriate expenditure for government. We've gone over this again and again, but some of you just seem to want what you want, and the rest of us be damned. Well as long as your hand is my wallet, you're going to hear my voice! There are exactly two possibilities, either an ice arena is a viable business or it is not. And if it's the former, then let a private investor build it! Why don't you build it yourself, Ed Stettin? Oh yeah - because you want your neighbors to pay for it. Good thing there's no unemployment in Janesville and we're all rolling in money.

Build the rink!!!! I am willing to pay the little amount of taxes for the increased standard of living it will provide me and my family.

A new rink for a hockey crazy town like Janesville is LONG overdue.

To all of you that think it is a small amount of people using it, just come to an open skate, or a Jets or Bluebirds game. You obviously have not done this.

I would be interested to see just how much this would raise our taxes here in Janesville. I doubt it would be much at all.

The naysayers in this thread are the same ones that said the Jets would be a flop and would not draw the crowds needed to make it a successfull venture, then started boo hooing beer sales at the game. Have any of you been to a game yet? The Jets have been a HIT!!!! You guys were WRONG, and you are wrong on this rink.

Ed Stettin

Super: I never said I was for either idea, by the way what is going to happen to your giant flake when it rains?

mespl: Eric who?!? Why are you not supporting my grandiose scheme? What have you got against cereal?
Here's the secret (shhhhh....). Ready?....Building the WORLDS LARGEST CORNFLAKE makes just as much sense as building a government ice arena. Same type of idea, just on a much bigger scale, which serves to illustrate the absurdity of government using tax money to fund pet projects which only benefit certain people.
It is not the purpose of government to buy, build, operate or maintain an ice arena. Or a ski resort. Or a jai alai facility. The list of things government should not be doing is nearly endless. Where is the benefit to those who have no interest in an ice arena? Why should they be forced (at the barrel of a gun) to pay for an ice arena? What about the kids who are interested in other activities - why should they be made poorer so that kids who play hockey can be subsidized? Why does government insist on wasting money? Did anyone tell the city council that the GM plant closed? Let's use some common sense and put an end to fiscal irresponsibility.

Sorry that was for Hank.

Unfortunately once you misrepresented the facts, what you are saying lost any value. You did this when you were saying that you were quoting from Eric Levitt’s web page. “This from City Manger Eric Levitt's web page he is employee with a dictators manners.” It was from a council member’s blog! You expect anyone to believe anything that you are saying! You attached the link to the blog! Then to top it off you had the audacity to fail to apologies to Councilman Yuri when he corrected you! I followed the link it is clear whose blog it is and it is clear that it is not Eric Levitt’s web page. If this is how you get your information it is no shock that people don’t listen to you.

I would like the city to construct an 11 million dollar ice-fishing arena (my favorite sport). It makes more sense than a hockey rink. It would cost money to cool in the summer months though. It could be built over several preexisting water bodies in the area. It would also cost money to restock fish now and then. But at least, we could feed future starving taxpayers in Janesville. Write your newspaper and express your feelings!

Unidentified: The WORLDS LARGEST CORNFLAKE could have anything and everything that anyone desired. We have half a billion dollars to responsibly administer, so nutritional information would be abundant.
I could list the individual businesses that would benefit (like "Hank" did for a mere government ice arena), but that would include virtually EVERY BUSINESS IN WISCONSIN :O)))
You have to admit, everybody loves corn flakes!!
C'mon people, get with the program and support the CORNFLAKE. CORNFLAKE, CORNFLAKE, CORNFLAKE!!! Yee-HAAAH!!!!!

You don't have a lot of friends do you, Pete?

Hank is really Pete. He already got kicked off these boards once for his ridiculous posts. Looks like he found a way to get back on. Once a troll always a troll.

"Frogger - there are many businesses that have profited from the jets. Ask Holidy Inn Express how much their business has improved. Or, talk with the owner of Italian House. The visiting teams love to eat there!

So, have thw owners of the Holiday Inn Express, or Italian House stepped up with major donations? Since they do profit from the team it would seem that they should be the ones who help underwrite the cost of a new arena.

Frogger - there are many businesses that have profited from the jets. Ask Holidy Inn Express how much their business has improved. Or, talk with the owner of Italian House. The visiting teams love to eat there! Park Place regularly has promotions for the Jets, and the Rotary Club recently brought in a bus load for a game! So to answer your question, yes, the team is bringing in business!

I do have to admit, the idea of a giant corn flake is appealing. Would the corn flake have a giant green check mark for meeting nutritional values? Sadly, it would probably generate more economic activity than a hockey team.

JTR - thanks! I was just sitting here thinking about all the people employed in the corn industry, from the folks who reseaarch the various seed types, to the farmers that grow the corn, the equipment suppliers that supply the farmers, the fuel to run the tractors and the people that make the parts for repairing the tractors, the people that deliver the corn, the people that process the corn into ethanol and a myriad of other products, not to forget one of which is CORN FLAKES! Then I think about all the people who eat corn flakes, who use corn flakes in various recipes, stuffing for the turkey, even desserts, yum! Those corn flakes have to be delivered to the grocery store, have to be put on the shelves, and are bought and paid for by customers (cha CHING and more jobs!!).
Then I think about all you selfish people who don't want to indebt the next seven generations with the cost of designing, building, operating, maintaining the WORLDS LARGEST CORNFLAKE!! Jobs, jobs, jobs!!!! And a tribute to the fine people of South Central Wisconsin, and the Government of the City of Janesville who had the foresight to honor the corn industry with this monumental tribute - AND potential economic catalyst.
And I think it's just SAD that you corn haters out there don't understand what this could mean for the people of Janesville. Perhaps you favor rice...or oats. That's fine, but unspecified scientific research has PROVEN that CORN is KING, and it's about time that the progressive, positive thinkers of Janesville come out and support this magnificent grain.
Kirk out.

The Jets games are great and I pretty much grew up at the ice arena as a kid playing youth hockey and speed skating. Although I think a two sheet arena would be great there is no way taxpayers should have to contribute any money at any time.

donkeykong: I still stand by my statement and nothing you said proves anything other than support for college sports. College sports are a whole different argument altogether. People in WI are proud and support any Badger teams including hockey and volley ball. That doesn't translate into long term support for a semi pro hockey team. Take away the student base and supporting parents and how full would the stadiums be?? Again, I've gone to quite a few Admirals games in Milwaukee and there are thousands of empty seats. Typically only about 1/4 of the stadium is full and that's in a major city. I love hockey, but I'm a realist. I also know far too many people who are out of work. The city needs to focus 100% of their time and efforts toward job creation. Once unemployment rates come down and home prices increase again, then maybe we can start putting special projects back on the drawing board. For now, I find it irresponsible for such items to continually take priority over far more pressing issues. I'd love to have a bike tunnel, skate park, children's museum, hockey rink, water park, a new fair ground, even a minor league baseball stadium. However, these things should have been addressed while the city was still in good financial standing or in the future when the city regains fiscal stability.

theone , i know i went back and looked to makes it look like people are arguing with themselves. but it is amazing how much another blogger comments are exactly the same, and they both work for a car dealership by johnson creek. maybe while running in that field she changed into a frog.

When they build it, where they build it, (not IF they build it), THEY WILL COME.

Speaking of.....whatever happened to Hannah?
There is no trace of her ever having existed in blog land.

Who is Hannah? Better yet who is Pete?

Superdave - That is really really funny and it keeps getting funnier each time you post it. You are awesome.

"yes": Exactly! If you build it they will come! So why limit ourselves to a stinkin' government ice arena? Build the WORLD'S LARGEST CORNFLAKE! Of course, part of the irony of this project is all the cornfields that will be destroyed in order to make room for the parking lots, but that's called "progress" ladies and gentlemen. Now, let the naysayers complain...
Come on - this is for our CHILDREN!

Frogger(Hannah) - you are completely right. I forgot about how the city is out to get each and every one of us. I heard they just hired the boogie man as their consultant for this project. Now were all screwed.

Say hi to Pete for me when you have a chance.

1- I don't believe them when they say 1.5 to fix it. As I stated before I think it is inflated to prove this very point you are trying to make. I bet if this was put on ice and the old one was fixed it wouldn't take 1.5 to fix it.
2- You have never built anything have you? It will not really be 2 million of our money. It will be more when it is all said and done.
3- Why reward the city for NEVER taking care of the old one?
4- I don't think it will generate enough money "for the businesses" as they say it will.
Has any businesses shown any JETS business SO FAR from them coming to town?

frogger - so if you're all for fixing the old one at $1.5 million what's another $500000. How much does that work out to be per household? Think before you talk.

BTW - I did mean $500 million.

yada- I agree
"goodforjanesberg
Jan 23, 2010 at 11:06 a.m.
Suggest removal Hank seems you know alot of "facts". MAYBE, MAYBE not. Your numbers (spending budget) aren't correct and your spelling isn't too sharp either.

A lot is TWO words. I learnt that in second grade.

Yes council WHY isn't there a referendum if we are spending this much money????

The city council was picked by us. True but when you need to the best from a bunch that isn't so great to pick from in the first place what do you do? And no I don't want to run. I don't feel qualified to run. Others should take this advice.

justintimberlakerules"Hank - You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I heard the real cost of the rink is $500 million."
Okay miss smarty pants. I hope you mean 5 million.

Yes- Aren't people COMING to the old one?
Fix the old one.

I've said it before and I will say it again..."If you build it, they will come!!!" How can you expect to attract all these companies and jobs to the area, if you aren't willing to invest in our great City? Why would some outside company want to spend money on a Janesville location, if the people that live here aren't willing to spend money here? We have a great School System and a lot to offer, but if we shut down the growth of the city, this will gradually become a ghost town. Come to a Jets game, go to a high school basketball game, go to a play at one of the high schools, go to JPAC, go to an Aqua Jays show....get out and see what Janesville has to offer. Don't just sit at your computer and complain about how bad things are. Get out and do something. Invest in your community or it will be too late. I travel and work all over the country and there are things going on as far as investment and development......unfortunately, just not here.

Hank:

In your posts you are quoting Janesville City Manager Eric Levitt's statement on his managerial philosophy which I posted on my website (http://yurirashkin.blogspot.com/2009/01/...). However, the quote is preceeded by text which originates on the side-bar of my website and has nothing to do with Eric Levitt. The text talks about the fact that I was originally born and raised in Moscow, Russia, not Mr. Levitt. At first I thought it was humorous but I see you continue to build an argument around this imaginary fact and thus I wanted to stop the confusion.

Sincerely,

Yuri Rashkin

donkey: So sorry you can't enjoy humour :O(
Beyond the humour is my attempt to get people to see this for what it is - but I would rather that people think it through for themselves than ask me to explicitly describe it. Do you have a specific objection to my proposal?

doneykong: Virtually 100% of high school students have eaten cornflakes.

Here's a thought. Why doesn't the city government carve out 100 acres on the edge of town to create the world's largest cornflake? Do you realize how many people would come from far and wide to witness such a marvel?!? The hotels and restaurants couldn't keep up with the demand, jobs would be created, tax revenues would soar...anything wrong with this scenario?
I propose committing our children to pay back $500 million in bond money to finance this venture. C'mon, it's the WORLD'S LARGEST CORNFLAKE, it ain't gonna be cheap people!!! Don't be all whiney and negative and complainin'!!!

Wisconsin is NOT a hockey state. The Milwaukee Admirals struggle to fill seats. Secondly, this city can't afford any expenses. Thirdly, although 9 dollars for tickets and a few dollars for concessions may not seem like much to some, it's a lot for others, especially for a semi pro small market hockey team. A hockey team will generate very little real net jobs other than a handful of crappy paying seasonal jobs. The few stores, restaurants, and hotels that will benefit from visiting teams pay minimum wage. We need real jobs, with real benefits. No it doesn't have to be GM wages and benefits, but we do need wages that people can actually live on. Retail alone will NOT save this city. Repeat, RETAIL will not save this city. In addition, we need a city manager and a council with focus on the important issues, not side shows. What I want to know is where the heck were all these people when the city was doing well? We loose over 5,000 jobs over the last few years and now every moron in the city finds a new ridiculous way to waste tax payer dollars. Did someone flip over a rock or something? Where the heck were all the children museum, bike tunnel, skate park, hockey rink, circle wackos back then?

Hank - You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I heard the real cost of the rink is $500 million. Please get your facts straight.

Hank.... not sure where you get your numbers from, but I KNOW FOR SURE you're sooooooooooooo far off.......with the extra millions you're stating, the city could furnish you and a couple friends of yours with Jets season tickets, beer, hot dogs, chips and jerseys for the rest of your life .....and still have a few million left

Hank = Pete(Hannah's Husband)

Not a good idea for the taxpayer, I think. We taxpayers pay 2.5 million, the club might pay 1.5 million if we give in to their demands for a better location. The taxpayers get the bill for the supporting road modifications if the club is granted their wish. Do the taxpayers pay for upkeep and maintenance of the facility? Why should the club sell naming rights when most of the facility will be paid for by our taxes? Why doesn't the city sell the naming rights, instead, and put the monies back into the city coffer for this project? The club gets all admission fees. This should be brought before the voters who pay the taxes. The voters should attend this meeting. As for supporting the children, well, there will be no children here if the city council continues to bleed the taxpayers until they are forced to leave for jobs elsewhere just to feed them. Do I like hockey? I love hockey but in this economy, I would prefer that this be a private, taxable venture. As a private venture, it will bring just as many people to area businesses as well as take the burden of the debt off the taxpayer.

ifiruledtheworld - that's a good idea, but I think the problem with that building is that you would have to remove the support beams that are in the middle of the building. So you'd either have to retro fit it someohow or tear it down and build new which would add costs. It'd be an excellent location but probably wouldn't happen.

Has anyone suggested building the new arena at the former Menards location on Pontiac Dr. and Hwy 14? Irrespective of the funding argument, the ice rink backers and potential donors could'nt find a site more centrally located in the retail and restaurant district of Janesville. Maybe Menards would cut a deal? Hmmmm.... I'm absolutely serious.

"lovethemidwest
Jan 23, 2010 at 7:03 p.m.
Suggest removal Let me take a wild, completely off the wall, guess here(sarcasm). J.P. Cullen, and Rock Road will get the contracts for this and make big bucks." -- Would you rather the money stays here locally supporting Janesville families or gets shelled out to out of state contracters?????? Think before speaking

Where did you ever pull that $11 million number from? The sky is falling, the sky is falling

"JANESVILLE — A Janesville committee raising money for a $5-million ice arena has asked the council for a new location off Black Bridge Road, saying the previously chosen south side site is hampering fundraising."

WELL DONE! OKIEFED - You are correct and YES they should(if they have to do it)build it like TELFER in Beloit. I bring the topic up all the time with people in the city whenever I have the chance - bottom line - nobody wants it! It's such a small number that want an ICE ARENA that it should not be built. Our economy is bad and yet they want to build a LUXURY ITEM and one that is not a NECESSITY! I cannot find a job and my taxes will go up and up due to the ice arena. I have an educatiom, but still can't find a job for over a year. There are people worse off than me - so wake up CITY COUNCIL!!

LOL - On GOODFORJANESBURG - I always think it's funny when an individual on the forum tells people that they need better grammar and to use a dictionary. You have so MANY mistakes with grammar, etc. I don't think people should be critical about spelling and grammar when they can't do it correctly themselves. I will just point out one of many of your mistakes - don't start a sentence with AND...lol... I know my grammar, etc is not good, but yours is worst...lol.

Excellent point SARAHB1 - BUT - I think building an ice arena should be voted by city residents to see if they want one. You don't spend lots of money during tough economic times and I don't believe all this hype about all of the money it will bring in. If it is built - I will bet you that the city residents of Janesville will be paying for it for many years to come for a variety of reasons.

Eric Levitt doesn't make the decision on this -the Council does. If you don't call them OR SHOW UP AT THE MEETING ON MONDAY NIGHT - a whole herd of people in opposition - then you can't complain.

GoodforJanes: Perhaps you should read into my post a little better. I said the public should not be paying for it, I didn't say the private groups were not paying.

Hockey? Who gives a damn about hockey?

They should build it where the current fairgrounds are, then move the Rock County Fair to the county land on Hwy 14 & Hwy 51.

I will be calling the council to let them know just how ridiculous this whole ice arena thing is. As previously posted our schools are short on money and these fools are going to give millions of tax dollars for an ice arena? How pathetic. I guess for those supporters hockey is more important than education. Truly pathetic. Hockey is a second tier sport in this country, not many people care about it at any level. Let alone enough people to justify this over education. Why dont these few people that want this go out and raise their own money and leave the tax payers money to something IMPROTANT, like the education of our children.

Youre a very selfish, self centered person. You think giving $2.5 million tax payer dollars to some unnecessary ice arena makes sense when our school system doesnt have enough money? How sad.

Hank---thanks for the phone numbers. I just called the City Council to tell them how thrilled I am about the ice arena and their continued support of youth supports. To all you naysayers, I say.....boo hoo!! Get over it!! Tomorrow there will be something else for all you commplainers to complain about.

Let me take a wild, completely off the wall, guess here(sarcasm). J.P. Cullen, and Rock Road will get the contracts for this and make big bucks.

The ice arena idea is just as stupid as fining city residents for not removing snow from their walkway within a certain time frame. The city is UNABLE TO CLEAN ALL OF THE SNOW OFF THEIR OWN WALKS, BUT WILL SEND INSPECTORS OUT TO FOLLOWUP ON CITY RESIDENTS!---> FINAL THOUGHT - I saw a child leaving school the other day(around centerway)due to all the traffic he made it to the middle median, but had to stop, So where was he stopped ONTOP OF A LARGE MOUND OF SNOW - BECAUSE THE CITY DID NOT SHOVEL THE AREA and he had no other place to stand as traffic passed by.

I apologize to the small number of people that want an ice arena, but this should have gone to a city vote! Spending OUR taxpayer money during tough economic times is stupid! Especially since it is an ice arena that will only serve a small segment of our population. It's time to stop going forward on this idiotic idea and start looking at all of the families out of work. I don't have the extra tax money for this luxury and cannot find a job - this is just plain dumb!!!!!!!!!!!

Heres a story currently on this site- http://www.gazettextra.com/news/2010/jan...

What is wrong with this picture? The city council is willing to give 2.5 million bucks for this TOTALLY unnecessary ice arena. Meanwhile, the SCHOOLS have a budget shortfall and have to hire a FUNDRAISER? Un-fricking-believable!

Thank you, "Lovethemidwest." The real issue here is "PRIVATE vs. PUBLIC." Those that are skating enthusiases AND are NOT fiscally conservative want the City to subsidize their interest, the skating arena. I would wager also that there is a relatively small number of Janesville individuals (children AND adults) that actually use the ice rink facility to any significant degree. There is A LOT of self interest in play here. The issue is NOT should we or should we not have a new ice arena. It is, rather, is this a PUBLIC or a PRIVATE investment issue. Cut out the macho "slam into the boards talk", bring in the common sense conversation!

and yes I meant beeen there, as in, "I wish I hadn't gone"

DanMan....Move to China...beeen there it's NO PICNIC.

The real problem with raising money is the area that the Council would like the facility to be constructed. The problem with a lot of you people is that you do NOT know all or even many of the facts. If you took the time to actually READ the proposal, things like bleachers and lockers, etc. would be donated. Like "the Joe B Doe" bleacher section or the "James A Smith" locker room. No one is looking for EVERYTHING from city dollars. And no I don't think that there will be a HUGE amount of jobs generated from a new arena, but there will be some....one of the BIG problems here is that people DO NOT have correct information but like to think they do. Even when a person makes a comment, certain others interpret rather than accept what is in print.

PS Some of you could do well with a dictionary and a few grammar lessons too. Give up commenting on things you don't know the facts about and do some studying.

What a waste of "Public funds"! Our city council should remove their heads and look around the city. Now, when jobs are scare or non-existent, these bozos spend money none of us have, to help their buddies and leave a legacy for themselves. I wish at times that this was China, we know what would happen to these jerks!

My definition of a select few is the number of people that actually use the ice arena. WHich is a VERY small percentage of the city population. Are you trying to say that the ice arena is immensely popular and more than a small percentage of the population utilizes it? If that is the case why dont you answer my question, if the ice rink is so popular and such a money maker, why are they having a problem raising their own money?

lovethemidwest - Can i see the results of your poll? What is your definition of a select few?

2.5 million dollars in taxpayer money is 2.5 million TO MUCH! With the exception of a select few people in this city, nobody gives a rats rear end about an ice rink. If it was such a profitable, used by the masses, establishment then why are they begging for money and a location to build it? If they want it let them come up with the funds. Oh wait, they cant! Why is that? Maybe because theres not enough interest?

ygtbkm- So you cannot put a new system in an old building??????????

The other problem I have with them spending all this money on a new one is we will need ANOTHER new one in 30 years because they wont take of the new one either. Why do I know this ? People say the old one is falling apart. Well the only way it "falls apart" is from NEGLECT. You need to maintain this stuff you spend so much money on!

Like Hank mentioned if you don't maintain and CLEAN the stuff it wont run as long or as efficient as it should!

Oh no Hank has figured us out our whole plot has been foiled. At least he hasn't found out about the city council buying our kids new eqiupment next year, all the latest model most expensive skates and sticks, new jerseys, a team motorcoach with big screen tvs, and hot tub.

Hank:
I'd like to think the Gazette staff does a little more than just regurgitate information it hears but that's a topic for another day. But it's simple I think, if the council says they'll go at most 2.5 million and the rest has to be a private venture then that's it right? If at that point the thing sits half-built and never used so be it! The city will have fulfilled it's part of the deal and it will be up to the people who want it to get it done. It doesn't necessarily have to mean the city will keep pouring money hand over fist into this thing. If they do, then vote the council out at your next opportunity. As for the bleachers, etc... I have a hammer and if volunteer help is needed to build them I'm in for a day. I don't want a 2nd full time job but surely there's enough people around here that support the kids in this town that we could pull together and give them 1 day each right?

goodforjanesburg: I have never seen our taxes go down here in Janesville. You must be kidding yourself if this will bring alot of jobs to Janesville.

Football fields + Baseball Diamonds + Fastpitch Softball diamonds + Soccer Fields + 2 sheet ice rink = Best Youth Sports Complex in the state and possibly the Midwest. Youth Sports are a huge part of any great community.

Use your head and put the rink at the Sports Complex...

Hank: I'd love to be able to attend more council meetings, however, I already don't get to spend enough time with my family by the time I get home from work. Maybe if the meetings were after my son's bedtime?!?! I do get my information from the Gazette though when they do write-ups on the council meetings and other articles. The Gazette says that "The Janesville City Council on Monday partnered with the Janesville Youth Hockey Club, promising $2 million if the club raises $1.5 million to build an arena with one sheet of ice. The club would then raise another $1 million and the city would chip in another $500,000 for a second sheet." By my calculations that totals 2.5 million by the city, not 11 million as you state. That's the reason I was asking for specific sources.
I don't have any kids that skate or play hockey, and I'm not sure I know any parents with kids that do so I have no vested interest in the ice arena. While I do think it's good to have a discussion about these things, we need to make sure we're using real numbers for people that may be reading these comments and not doing any research beyond that.

RinkRat...thank you too. Some folks that offer their thoughts?? ideas??? opinions maybe, are so farrrr off in the foggggggggg of it all.

YGTBKM Thank you for your level-headed fact based commentaries. You are informed and involved apparently. We could use a lot more of your type in this community.

11 million for the new rink? 125 per household Hank you don't have a clue your numbers are way off. You think the old system is fine. Ever see how long it takes the water to freeze up after resurfacing? Wait I know Eric Levitt is probably in the backroom turning down the chillers so we can say we need a new rink.

GoPackers.....Read up on it...get really involved..... the private group WILL be paying the greater part of it and there will be more open skating at various times

Are you kidding me? 2.5 million in public funds for an ice arena, that for the most part will be a private establishment. I find it hard to believe that John Q. Public would be allowed to skate at this ice arena anytime they want. If they are lucky, they will get a couple hours a week for open skateing and I'm sure it will be at unconvient hours. The rest of the time the ice will be taken up by the Jets, the high school team, and the Figure skating club. If they want new ice. They can pay for it!! You know, the people who will actually get to use it whenever they want.

Goodforjanesberg;
I appreciate your comment, but I really wasn't fishing for guesses. I was wondering if I had missed it if it had been stated somewhere.

Hank: Those are some interesting numbers on the cost of the project, I haven't heard or read anything close to that I don't think. Would you be able to provide us with your sources for that?

Hank, better yet, run for Council. Make your chatter really heard and then maybe those with the REAL NUMBERS could inform you.

Hank...quit blaming "the city" for everything. We are "the city". Get off your computer, go out and look around. GM left. We must move on and get over it. If "the city" is so bad, leave.

Hank: I am certainly no expert on refrigeration, I just go by what I've read here in the past. Way back in April last year there was a story on the Gazette about how they had to have a part made because of the age of the system. It wasn't the "hockey people" being quoted, it was the arena manager who said the part was no longer manufactured because of the age of the current 35 year old system. That's in part what I'm basing that comment on.

milkman....I would imagine if I bought a new truck maintaining it would cost me less, since it would be new and under warranty...seems like the same logic would apply....common sense...I think!!!!

dkush...At the businesses mentioned...that's where jobs will be.....and since the businesses will be paying more in taxes (ie: city hotel taxes, etc) we, the city property tax payers will have to pay less....get it????

Has there been any mention of if the $70,000 the city spends a year to maintain the ice rink will go up or down with a new one?

Hank seems you know alot of "facts". MAYBE, MAYBE not. Your numbers (spending budget) aren't correct and your spelling isn't too sharp either.

Yeah, it bring some money to the city. BIG DEAL! It's not getting any of us any extra money to pay for these pet projects. Where are the jobs we need to support everyone's WANTS!

dillinger...thanks for your support..not enough open skate time????? The facility IS getting a lot of use....maybe we could use a double!!!!!!

Oh, just thought I'd say...no I don't play hockey and when I was able to skate I did so at Traxler Park...then referred to as "Goose Island". In my wishes kids could skate at a safer warmer place.

Do ANY of you "nay sayers" realize how much revenue (that's money) that a "decent" ice rink would bring to Janesville hotels, restaurants. stores, gas stations, etc.???? Hockey IS a BIG money draw. In the long run your few individual tax dollars would be compounded by hockey visitors. If you would open your eyes instead of your mouths you would read the FACTS that if the city agrees to a new rink, the old rink could be used for a fire station, saving the city (aka we, the taxpayers) money. The private group raising money for the rink would be footing the majority of the bill.....And, by the way, get really involved, stop by the rink and see what BAD shape it is in....and...still all kinds and ages of people use the facility, not just "the elite" hockey people. Kids have birthday parties there, there is open skating, figure skating there. Check out the Winter Olympic roster and you will notice Janesville skaters and Janesville ties. GM is gone. It's time to put Janesville on the map for something good, clean and healthy for kids, youth and the Janesville community. It's the perfect time for it.

SuperDave: I actually wasn't calling you negative per se, I was simply talking about the negative opinions others seem to have about our city.

Don't you ever just read the comments though on some stories here and just smile/shake your head? Maybe it's just me...

If you knew me, you'd know I'm FAR from a fan of big government. But the system they have now for keeping the ice, well, ice doesn't even have parts available for it anymore. They have to have a part made as I understand it when something breaks. I just don't think it's realistic for a small town high school hockey team, a figure skating club & a junior hockey team (whose players aren't even paid) to be able to finance renovations or new facilities on their own. We're not talking about organizations that make millions of dollars here. You may say we don't need an ice arena at all, let it fade away, and you'd certainly be entitled to that opinion. I just happen to think they're going to need some help from the city to make this happen. As far as south side vs. middle of town vs. east side, I don't really care. I'll make it to a handful of games every year either way. But if we're asking them to come up with private donations to help fund it I think we have to respect the opinions of the local businesses who are going to be giving that money.

The hockey supporters will continue to ask for changes and delays until they can get the location and the money they want for this project. RinkRat - the fact that the games are packed simply proves that there is enough interest in hockey, so that the hockey group could make this a private venture, invest their own money, and create a thriving business in town - and possibly create new jobs.

If the city is going to do anything, how about something that families can afford to do. Sorry, but for my family of 5, there is no way that we can afford $9 per ticket plus money at a concession stand. Just to get in is $45. That's the amount of gas I put in my van every 2 weeks!

Janesville council members need to wake up and look at what is really best for Janesville right now, which apparently they have no interest in doing. I really don't see many of them getting re-elected at the end of their term. The only thing I can see is more and more people leaving this town.

No br549 the skatepark people are not getting any tax money, but the Jets should not either. Fair is fair..

YG: It's been a while since I've been called "negative". Thanks for a good laugh this fine Saturday morning. No, those of us that support fiscal responsibility are not being "negative". And wasting money is not the way to "build up the city".
WE DO NOT OPPOSE AN ICE ARENA. We oppose a GOVERNMENT ice arena. We SUPPORT a privately owned and operated ice arena, just as we support every other private business. Freedom is a wonderful thing. Positively! Clear enough?

Ever wonder if the cost to improve the old facility are INFLATED to make building a new one the better option. I DO! I have said it once and I will say it again. FIX WHAT YOU HAVE!

I understand everyone's concern about the money, I really do, we're not in a great economy right now. But it isn't just about the Jets right? There's the high school hockey team, the Janesville figure skating club and just the every day people that want to hit an open skate. Am I a hockey fan? Yes, but bigger picture isn't this somewhat about building up the city too? For example, when the Jets are in town the visiting team brings with (I'm estimating here) 30 some odd players and coaches plus the visiting team's fans that travel with them. For a 2 game weekend series that means roughly 20 - 25 hotel rooms plus they need to eat right? That's business at local restaurants and on Saturday they have to kill time before the game at 7pm so my guess is they're hitting the local mall or other stores. Isn't that all good for the local economy? Are we going to recoup all of that money spent in 1 year? Certainly not, but if we're talking about having to spend 1.5 million to renovate an old facility, why not put that money into something new instead. Maybe there is some middle ground here that we can find if we all stop bickering and start working together. I'm a Janesville transplant, been here about 15 years, but I have to tell you when I open just about any article on the Gazette and read the comments I begin to understand where this city gets all of the negative opinions about it from outsiders. Do we ever at some point get tired of being spiteful? Or is is just anonymous nature of these comments that make us act this way?

What a sad waste of money, and this coming from a city that can't even get the snow removed from it's own property.

Didn't the neighbors in the Blackbridge area express serious concern about a volleyball court/bar going into that area citing "traffic issues". I think the ice arena will bring more traffic into that area so how will that sit with the neighbors?

flying-monkeys,you got it right,think i'll go to a game

There is an important message from the city manager in this article. Mr. Levitt originally recommended that the city put more money into the current ice arena to give the city more time to decide the location. He further stated, "People are trying to fasttrack a project of this type of magnitude that would (normally) take a lot longer than a six- to nine-month period, especially in this type of economy." Points to ponder, for sure!

justintimberlakerules, what the heck are you talking about? You have the most off the wall comment in this entire blog.

RinkRat...

...This really has NOTHING to do with if watching a hockey game is fun or not.

This has to do with the way funding for a new arena is being pushed down our colletive throats.

This has to do with the fact that the backers for a new arena can't come up with their share of the funds without a different site for the arena. This is after them proclaiming that there were many people ready to pony up the cash...where did THEY go?

If you like to watch hockey, good for you and have a good time...I've been to a couple of hockey games....does nothing for me...why not? Simply because hockey doesn't float my boat. Just going to a game isn't going to change hearts and minds, as you've tried to claim.

As I have said many times in the past....it's not about whether we, as taxpayers should or shouldn't pay for an arena....it's about how we are given no real say in whether we do or not.

You gotta love the posts from the vocal minority. Let me guess, you all voted for Bush too.

SarahB1:I agree with you 100%council members WAKE UP this is one big SCAM.

What's sad about this to me is that you have a bunch of guys that really feel powerful and entitled. I'm talking about the harcore backers of this proposal. They'll play along like good guys and say they'll find the funding for a Southside location, and then come back saying its too hard to do. Then, they'll come right back with their original request to place the rink out in the Sports Complex. I really feel this is a lot of arrogance by a bunch of "big fish" guys that get their way a lot in this town. They're the power brokers and someone (several people actually) should stand up to them. They are arrogant.

Wow this is such a great collection of positive people on this blog.... Any of you been to the Jets games?? How about the Bluebirds, the Rock County Fury????? Get out from behind those keyboards and show some support for your local teams and youth you might be suprised how much fun it is.. I guarantee you if you go to a Jets game you will have fun. Nine bucks for a ticket and a few dollars at the concession stand in return a great night with the fastest game on earth...

I dont think tax payers should have to pay for it at all.... Have you seen the schedule for the ice rink? It is rarely open to the public as it is..

I agree with putting it nowhere. Janesville needs another ice arena about as much as it needs another plant closing down. This is going to be another vacant building in a few years anyway at the expense of tax payers and if the morons on our city council approve this over everything else that is going on in our economy, it just confirms what everyone says about them....they have no idea what they are doing and they need to be removed! Where is the common sense...the majority of the people did not vote for this, a FEW people did....doesn't majority rule?

How about...nowhere?

If this group can pick a new spot to help fund raising will this same option be offered to the people trying raise money for the skatepark? Fair is fair..

In spite of what "they" would have you believe, things are not getting better for the average people in town. This city and it's manager need to realize this and take a pass on the Ice Rink, traffic circles, and underpasses for now. Get this city back on track, get the people here some businesses that will hire people at more than minimum wage, no benefits, part time jobs.
If this team wants to be here so bad, let them raise their money and give them any help we can WITHOUT spending a ton of tax money we don't have!.. And just say NO to the Blackbridge site.

Beeferer: I find your comment rude. Take your comment and apply it to yourself. I hope the city says yes and starts to build soon. Why put money into the old rink when you could get new?

We need to say no to hockey. Look what happened to Madison Ice Muskies. Enough said. If Madison four times larger than Janesville and not struggling as bad as Janesville can't keep their team how does Janesville expect to maintain their's?
host.madison.com/sports/hockey/article_7e637e2e-05e5-11df-b227-001cc4c002e0.html

They won't be happy until they get to put it where they want to and taxpayers foot the bulk of the costs. So...aside from "interest," how much actual money has been raised or contractually committed to thus far? Don't even see that mentioned. And how much are naming rights going for? I'd suggest that the single biggest contributor (by money, not weight!) get that right, a I expect that will be "John Q. 'Deep Pockets' Lincoln-Tallman-Janesville"! Hey...didn't Lincoln ice-skate when he was in town for that weekend? Maybe we're on to something here!

Times will not get better for Janesville in 2010, and this project should be put "on ice" until a few actual employers (remember what they were like?) come to town and at least start to turn things around. In the mean time, all those mysterious "guys behind the guys behind the guys" who support the ice arena (WHO ARE THEY ANYWAY?) are more than welcome to invest--dare I say it?--their own money in the project (gasp!) and finance it in it's entirety--but then ,that might be a bit too risky for them, wouldn't it? Always better to use someone else's (i.e. the few taxpayers that are left) to float their (n)ice dream!

Hey, how's that healthy drink company "LiquiPur" (AKA Soilent Green")coming? You know, the one that thus far has bilked TAXPAYERS out of the last $100,000 that we didn't have--THANKS CITY COUNCIL FOR THAT BRIGHT MOVE!--so that they could "rent" space at Helgeson Holdings building (and by "rent" I mean promise to pay but not actually do it)? For background, see:
http://www.gazettextra.com/news/2009/dec...

The past is prologue, and I believe the best term for this city council would be "the mark," in relation to these confidence games (also known as a bunko, con, flim flam, gaffle, grift, hustle, scam, scheme, swindle or bamboozle). But I'd still be curious who the "shills" are in the present ice dream scam at hand.

Please stop wasting hard-earned taxpayer dollars!

Why not just STICK IT in the middle of Janesville- you know, "where the sun don't shine"...

Why not build two ice rinks? One on each side of town. This way they could have two home jerseys. We could build a tram that goes from one to the other with a scenic view. "Here on your left is the view of the Job Center..boy look at those lines today," "You will notice on your right a big pile of money burning," "Below that bridge up ahead is Janesville's homeless," "Oh, did I mention we could use more funds?"

Use it up, Wear it out,
Make it do, or do without.

Don't know who this is quoting, but in these times... it speaks Volumes!

I agree with Stan Milan- WHATEVER!
South side is fine. There is an I90 exit over there in case you Eastside people haven't driven that way in YEARS to know this.

True, to not do this at all right now is my opinion.

jbiggerstaff- they talked about this as far as Beloit goes. But that would be towards the South and we cannot have that now can we???!!!

Why not buy the former LSI building? It's plenty big enough and I hear that's it's empty :)

Why put anything off blackbridge? Anyone driven that way lately? All you can smell is the dump! Disgusting! I feel sorry for those folks that own homes in that area.

How about expanding the scope of this project to reach out to Rock County? Why not consider a location near Newville with a combined water park and sports complex or better yet a Casino?

I agree. We really don't need this right now. The additional 6 weeks of unemployment has now been cut off for Wisconsin because we "no longer need it". Maybe we should worry about the people of our community instead of increasing taxes by putting in a new ice arena, then a new fire department.

The city should just say no & cut it,s losses.