Mark Robinson cannot be trusted !!!

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/wi-supreme-co...

I know what to do. Take all the money that was requested for the ice arena and put it towards the issue with the shortage for education!

Curious, how much money do the "other" facilities bring in revenue?

and yet the money is there to expand the sports complex. Heck, that story only got 3 lousy comments.

Fanofun and creature...i agree.

Like ive said before, GIVE IT UP. I would like to have an outdoor skate park, BUT if there is no money and its not NEEDED then now is not the time.

LOL bigroadie

Again your NOT reading what I wrote, not working does not mean UNEMPLOYED, I am not saying that the majority is unemployed I am saying that of the 60,000+ there are 30,000+ not earning income from a job (Kids under school age, kids in school be it college or other, retirees and disabled) now do the numbers make sense? If you go back and read my original post I never once said that their were more than 50% of Janesville residents unemployed. I truly hope this is the end of the confusion on what I had written. Employed or Unemployed the whole topic here has seemed to escape us and that is that the money just is not there for such luxuries as this at the present time. We all have seemed to have lost focus on that and that is the topic here isn't it?

Exactly, maintain what we have. Look at what happened with the Tallman House. We didn't maintain it, now it needs even more $$ for repairs.

IMO, this is an old negotiations tactic, ask for a porsche and be happy when you get a crown victorian for a squad car. Aim high and make them think they are giving you a deal, when in fact you are getting what you truly want. Give us a new building and two sheets of ice !!! Well ok we will set for a new building and one sheet. Then the claim comes, "See how much money we saved the taxpayers ?" How about, fix what you have and maintain it, and save taxpayers even more ??

How have we missed the central issue? The city has promised out tax dollars to pay for a project for a privae for-profit group? What do we get in return for our investment? Entertainment (and not even free tickets) and a larger tax bill!

Janesville already has one sheet of ice ready to go and doing just fine. Yes some repairs are needed to the building and can be done with local people. No reasonable person would ever spend the money to build a new facility in the current economy. Only self-serving individuals would make the claim it's needed for the good of Janesville. Janesville has a big list of needs and new ice is low on that list. Put it to a vote by the people and you'll see the true interest level.

The inability to have one's ideas challenged must be endemic in this area. How else could an article about ice arena supporters refusing to face facts turn into a semantic argument about what our actual unemployment rate is? Why are we all so stubborn?

An impartial expert has determined that we can support one ice sheet. Half of us would like to ignore that advice to our own peril and build two anyway, the other half see it as an excuse to scrap the whole project. Has anyone considered the obvious solution?--Only build ONE ice sheet!

We have an opportunity to bring employment and revenue at a sustainable level, without it turning into a boondoggle with one ice sheet. Let's do that.

doc0430 - Your math is way wrong. The majority of the residents in this city are not unemployed. Of the eligible workforce (those over 18 I would assume), the unemployment rate is well under even 20%. This group makes up the majority of our population. You also subtracted all school kids. Walk into most of the stores here in town and what do you see? School kids working! Then, while they may not be working, there are plenty of retirees who have plenty saved away and are not in this large financial crunch you seem think so many people are in. In summary, yes, there certaintly many people who are in financial hardship. However, if we want to move forward, we will have to seriously consider projects such as this.

jjjammer4545 I din't say the majority of the workforce isn't working, all I pointed out and proved is that of the 60,000+ give or take population is NOT working, so that is a MAJORITY! Yes or no? If over 30,001 of a 60,000 community isn't working that is a majority. I don't even know why I bother trying to explain these things to you and jvlreader, seems you two already have it all figured out! Well heres another minute of my life wasted on here that I'll never get back..... Some people just refuse to get it, so I'll leave you to figure that one out. Oh and by the way jvlreader I love the wise crack you made about me regarding this story on another story...... Grow up!

My husband does not have a job yet after graduating at 54 years old and putting 60+ applications in a little over a month's time. We will probably lose our home, so that will be one less family that will be paying for your stupid WANTS.

Talk about spending foolishly...the "city" spends OUR money buying decayed, dilapidated houses in questionable neighborhoods for more money than they are worth and then with OUR money, "fixes" them up to sell at an enormous loss to people with questionable means to care for these homes and who knows if there will be any returns on these projects or will the city be buying them back at a loss in another year or two?? No one asked me, a taxpayer, if I thought this was a good idea. I don't know if any "consultant" was involved in this "no-brainer". But, let's just waste money (that could go towards the arena) on a consultant, who didn't do a very thorough job to tell US that in his opinion Janesville isn't a 2-sheet city. Well I would much rather spend OUR money on a 2 sheet arena that has great potential for revenue and stimulating OUR economy in OUR city restaurants, hotels, stores, gas stations, etc. not to mention that many more people would be enjoying the arena than will be enjoying these "rehab" pojects that OUR city brags about. If WE are going to spend OUR money, let's think about the number of beneficiaries of OUR dollars.

commonsense101 - After Jets/High school hockey season is baseball. Prior to hockey is lacrosse. During the summer there is summer hockey leagues. So I ask you, if these other sports are going to be able to use this area at the Ice Arena during their off-season, wouldn't that be during winter/hockey season ? Because if it's not during winter/hockey season, these teams would be practicing outside someplace.

I stand corrected, the consultant was hired by the city. My apologies for being misinformed.

Overall, I think this "we'll let other sports use the facility during their off-season" is nothing more than a ploy to get people interested in other sports to invest money into a Ice Arena. Yet any sports wise person would know that the other sports off-season is during the winter/hockey season. And they already claim they don't have enough ice or ice time for what they have going on during winter/hockey season. IMO

sarahB- all your comments you have posted make no sense and you have no idea what you are talking about, please stop posting......

The Second sheet of Ice would do nothing for janesville, it would not increase revenue, it would not increase interest in janesville, it would be a waste of money and resources. However I do believe a renovation for 1 mil on the current rink is acceptable through private funding, they claim to already have 700,000 correct, well just 300,000 more to go and you can have a "new rink". I have played hockey in jsvl for years and it has not been or ever will be a major revenue for janesville, mainly due to Capital Ice Arena in Middleton and other rinks in the surrounding areas. The city council needs to be shut down and a new government needs to be established for janesville or nothing will ever come about the once great city of janesville.

jbiggerstaff, what are you thinking with this?

"the second sheet would raise the overall revenue from the beer garden and keep the ice arena in the black. Now I'm sure that you wouldn't want to deny the under employed a beer."

Duh. The underemployed are not spending their few dollars on Janesville Jets games and the beer concession. And if you're just trying to be cute or make a joke, the "under employed" don't think your very amusing.

How did the city of Janesville get into the business of running an ice rink in the first place?
Hockey is way too expensive a recreational sport for kids; but the "haves" in Janesville love it because when their kiddies put on all that expensive gear it reinforces their sense of superiority over the rest of us that can't afford it.
Sell the whole shebang to the hockey mom group for $1. This will help the city budget by eliminating the need to subsidize it.

The moderator here has a problem. The 1st comment that was posted by Refluculated was straight to the point and the one vulgar word was blanked out. Mr. moderator you need a lesson in good judgement because you have none!We are all adults here(i presume)and noone has posted that they were offened by 4 asterisks posted in Refluculated comments.
If you remove this you have proven you are rite in the head, or you are in bed with the arena investors. Shame on you!!!!

woops - almost forgot - PAYTOMUCHTAX is CORRECT - read it.

Lighten up people, the second sheet would raise the overall revenue from the beer garden and keep the ice arena in the black. Now I'm sure that you wouldn't want to deny the under employed a beer.

oh sheet! I guess that means no sheets of ice. I have stated my opinion before - the city needs to decide which items are: 1.Necessities
and 2.Luxuries - -> This falls into NUMBER TWO! During tough economic times you take care of the necessities. It's so hard to believe that you hire / get a consultant and then IGNORE what he says!!! I don't care if the club pays for the 2nd sheet because eventually ALL of the TAXPAYERS of Janesville will be responsible for the upkeep. If you have to do something - do what I am doing with my home - fix up what you have and SAVE some money.

Why Why Why do you continue to talk about this. I said in pryor posts on this that no matter what the recomendation came back as and no matter what the people say it will not count. There are certian people in this town that get what they want and we can not stop them. Consultant's report came back and it does not matter the right people want this so it will happen there will be a new ice arena built and it will have 2 sheets of ice and the city will spend far more than what is proposed right now. Bash me all you want supporter's of this but I am speaking from past history this will happen and taxes will go up or services will be cut but the ice arena is a done deal with 2 sheets of ice. Mark my words.

Yay! A new fancy ice sheet and a high speed train! All our prayers are answered!!!

Wacka, wacka, wacko, just crazy, no one has jobs,the economy is in the tank, so lets spend some more money we don't have.

This isn't real, for now, until those involved can show us the money. We're living in an era of scaled back plans and postponed dreams in many aspects of our lives. No matter how much we might want something, economic realities must be recognized. There are a lot of quality of life issues to be addressed in the city's budgeting and borrowing processes. Where does this project fit when the big picture is evaluated?

Just to offer clarification. Mark Robinson is NOT the person who bought the basketball tickets. Also, the City requested the independent study - NOT the hockey group.

Fanoffun has the right idea I think. The whole article sounds like a subliminal pursuasive argument, ie: We might not NEED two sheets, but how great would it be if we had them? Well maybe just one... its the old bait and switch. Push the higher cost product and you will grudgingly accept the lower cost product you didn't want in the first place. Meanwhile they quietly cut jobs, wages and benefits to pay for it. Afterall, we can't possibly say no to public/private partnerships when we are trying to create jobs, can we? How many people will the ice rink employ anyway, 12? At most. Yes, this entire comment is sarcasm, in case you thought I was defending the ice rink.

not2crazeeyet - They don't care about your struggles. Their response last time was for the us to move out of town if we didn't like it.

SarahB1 - Because the consultant THEY hired shot down their plan for a 2nd sheet of ice and as the article read, they don't like it and disagree with him.

They want a 2nd sheet of ice because they are cramped on one sheet and don't get enough time on that one sheet. But NOW they say if they had a 2nd sheet they would share it during hockey season with off-season sports and trade shows. Could this be a tactic for a 3rd sheet of ice down the road ? Hang onto your wallets, I feel a pick pocketing coming.

woody- yes

Is Robinson the same guy that bought all the tickets to a Milton/Janesville game so it would be moved to a different city other than Milton?

Wait for it....ice rink supporters remind me of the spoiled little kiddies who were told no and now they're crying about how unfair life is...but Dad Timmy's parents are letting him go to the mall. Give it up people! If you want a new rink then pony up the cash yourself otherwise deal with the current location or move to Madison. End of story.

The following is from the Feb. 3 2010 article:
*
Ownership of the rink is the latest development in what has been an ongoing issue.

A private group working through the hockey club proposed raising $1.5 million to build an arena with two sheets of ice. It asked the city add $2.5 million and donate the land.

The council agreed and gave the group a south side location and a March 1 deadline to raise $2.5 million.

“We’ll let them take their rink, build whatever they want, let them have naming rights, advertise, do whatever they want, and the city of Janesville washes its hands of it,” Truman said. “There are no more expenses running it.”

The city spends $65,0000 to $85,000 a year operating the ice arena, but that doesn’t include major facility expenses, City Manager Eric Levitt said.

Mark Robinson, a member of the fundraising committee, said Tuesday that relinquishing ownership is something Levitt had suggested periodically for several months.

“The idea was, the city would be very happy to get out of the business of running an ice rink because of the cost incurred in the past,” Robinson said.

The rink still would be available to rent, including open skate for city residents.

Many of the issues on the table—naming rights and location—might be more easily resolved if the club owned the rink, Robinson said.

Club ownership could affect the location of the rink. The hockey club might prefer a site that would reduce fundraising costs, Robinson said. For instance, the club could save $300,000 to $750,000 at an east side site because of existing infrastructure.

Levitt said he believes the city would save money in the long run if it relinquishes ownership of the arena. The city would pay to book the ice for its skating programs.

Why is everyone getting there buns in a wringer? The skate park has been trying to get funding and support for 7 yrs and yet you see no skate park. The same is going to hold true here also. I believe they tapped out all who supports the ice rink and are only about a 1/3 of the way of raising money. You folks have succeeded in eliminating another ave of entertainment for our young folks. For young families wanting to come to Janesville, forget it. If my kid is not into baseball, there is very little left for him to do. You folks stopped that.

No NO NO --- I am working for less, my husband is still working. However, our expenses have almost doubled. I don't care if you can afford your kids hockey rink...I can't...and there are lots of other with us. Please respect us.

doc0430 - the unemployment rates don't factor in kids or retirees. So the vast majority of potential earners in Janesville are still working.

beeferer - No he never said they NEED a second sheet of ice. He said if they had a second sheet of ice they could: do those other things. BUT you have to read the entire article, his overall recommendation is Janesville could NOT support a second sheet of ice.

Please correct me if I am wrong, but if baseball, soccer, and La Crosse could use the second sheet of ice area, doesn't that counter "Walker said. “Our membership is being squeezed by the fact that we can’t get reasonable ice hours.” AND "“We certainly have programs that are being restricted right now because of the lack of ice,” Walker said" ? So if they need most ice and ice time, how are they going to fit baseball, soccer,, lacrosse (in the off-season / Hockey season) and "Provide space for local companies to hold trade shows" as well ?? You want more ice and more ice time, but your going to share it during hockey season ? Hmmmm

Mark Robinson said a second sheet could: Provide an indoor location for baseball, soccer, and lacrosse players in the off-season because the second sheet would not be needed year-round. OK, now he is saying we NEED a second sheet, but a second sheet would not be needed year-round? Why do we even take into consideration anything this person is saying when he can't even make up his own mind? He is grasping at straws!

Every special interest group supports its own cause, some to the death. Duh.
STOP WASTING OUR TIME AND MONEY ON THIS--if your want it that bad, then put up the money for it and make it a going concern.
Bad times still haven't really hit here, and a two-sheeter is just another example in a long line of projects that constitute a huge waste of resources which this city does not have and will not have anytime soon. Get real!
Drop it or pay for it yourselves, and stop trying to force the rest of us to foot the bill for your pleasurable diversion or goofy obsession.

jvlreader- The unemployment rate in this area is higher than what you think- check with many of the case managers at the job center who deal with this on a daily basis. True, building brings jobs, what what jobs are really going to come out of this? The ice arena doesn't have many employees as it is, and from the looks it of, those who do work there, don't work a whole lot. And from knowing someone who previously worked there, the pay is not enough to even begin to support a family. So, tell me, how is this going to benefit jobs???

I don't know if an ice arena is the wisest thing to spend money on, but that being said, I think the city should spend some money on recreation and promotion. Not just to attract visitors but to create the impression that Janesville is a vibrant community to companies that may be looking to move into the area. Who wants to move to an area that is obviously on the decline.

Did anyone else catch "The city will be looking critically at many city services to reduce costs during the next budget cycle, and Levitt said he doesn’t believe the city should spend public dollars to increase the service level at the ice arena at a time when the council MIGHT CUT SERVICES IN OTHER AREAS, he told the council Monday."

So layoff cops, Fire personnel, Paramedics, or Public Works personnel, to BRING more people to VISIT ? Increase unemployment (local taxpayers) to bring in tourists (non-tax paying people) ? Anyone else reading it this way or is my math quiz answer incorrect ?

jvlreader If you take the population of Janesville and subtract, now stay with me here, the number of people that are under 5yrs old and then subtract the number of people in school, and then you subtract the number of retirees, then take the number of unemployed right now away from the total population of Janesville, The majority is not working.... Easy enough for ya?? Hope that clears it up! Refluculated I am with you all the way on this one..... You want it? Then you pay for it, its that simple.

Give it up already. People are strapped and out of jobs. And no, an ice arena is not going to bring many jobs around here. Get your priorities straight, people.

my3boys: You say "a good majority of this city isn't working", what is the majority, 51% is a majority, and I believe the unemployment rate is not that high. I understand that many people in the area are not working, but building brings jobs. I don't want my taxes to go up, but I want to see Janesville grow. We need to expand, we need to have a what ever it takes attitude. We need to get our heads out of the box and work for the good of Janesville.

Weren't the supporters of the rink the ones that insisted on hiring an outside consultant at $10,000 to complete a study? Now they are saying the consultant is wrong because they didn't say yes to a second sheet of ice?

Refluculated- well put!

It's high time Janesville gets its priorities straight and stops trying to cram this crap at people when a good majority of this city isn't working, or are in the process of losing their jobs. GIVE IT UP!!

Good Article. Hopefully Eric Levitt and the City Council take a deeper look at the second sheet and the on and off season proposals. If done right it could be a positive for Janesville businesses by bringing more people and their money to town. Sometimes you have to look past "what's in it for me" and think about the community.

Unless even 1 sheet will improve the "unemployment" in this community, I suggest we scrap this project for 5 years and then see if we are better off to suppoert it. STOP AND THINK!!!!

No fair talking about ice sheets today!
gimme 20!

My taxes are high enough. Enough of foolishly spending money that we just can't afford. Enough said.

Give up on the Ice Arena already. Taxpayers are strapped enough.

Just like they said of the skate park. If people really wanted it, they would have been able to raise the money. Since this group has not been able to raise their share, it shows there is no support for this idea either. Time to move on.