A Church Helping people overcome addictions and improve their lot in life with an education..how evil!
Freedom from religion is you do not have to go there if you do not want to. Forcing others to not worship is as bad as forcing people to worship. "Individual Liberty" do not tolerate a bunch of Captain Do Gooders pushing themselves onto our community. It was a non issue to all but them and they do not live here. They are just trying to make a name for themselves preying other peoples misery..sound familiar? SAUL ALINSKY/CLOWARD-PIVEN STRATEGY. "Create a crisis if none exists and manipulate the ignorant"..WAKE UP AMERICA start getting informed.

Dalegribble, AA has a success rate of 5%, hardly impressive.

Napalm the problem with your theory is that if religion is only necessary for the people who were exposed to it previously, how did it get created in the first place? It had to come from somewhere...

OMG -- troubled youths might believe in God guiding them instead of dulling the sense with alcohol and drugs..... OMG......

CRES is a great charter school designed to help kids in a desperate situation.
.
If "freedom from religion" wants to question the Janesville School District about something, how about the fact that Spring Break starts on Good Friday for no other reason than it is Good Friday.
.

Is the higher power more alcohol by volume?

we spent three years planning the CRES Academy.
We "did our homework". Students have the option of attending the 12 step meeting. If they don't want to go,they stay back with the teacher. Most if not all students choose to go to the meeting. These kids are struggling to stay clean and sober everyday. They can choose whatever type of support system that works best for them in their recovery plan. I think their best support system is each other. we are located in the educational building behind the church. The kids love it there. Leave us alone!

MeMyself_I claims it's not worth the time to respond...but then responds anyway. Interesting.
Maybe if MeMyself_I hadn't been so self-righteous in the first place, he/she wouldn't be in the situation that he/she is in.

devioushb...not worth my time to respond if that is all that you have to say from this article and all the comments.

momintum-"Churches, Mosques, Temples, and all other various and sundry religious institutions will proselytize overtly or covertly to promote their own particular brands. This isn't the only case in question where the taxpayers and citizens foot the cost. It's a kind of captive audience where the religious hypocrisy attempts to influence by osmosis."

If that's what you believe, you had better not go to a bar, because using your logic, even if you don't drink you'll become an alcoholic.
Perhaps you think that way because you played in the front yard at Mendota...

MeMyself_I: You do NOT have to go to church to believe in God. Is that the only place you pray to God? IF so I feel sorry for you

As the godless atheist that I am, the actions of this group are offensive at times. This would be one of them. The 12 step program is voluntary...enough said. Where this charter school is being held is inconsequential. If FFRF has such a problem with this, they can spend the $ to fix it.

Churches, Mosques, Temples, and all other various and sundry religious institutions will proselytize overtly or covertly to promote their own particular brands. This isn't the only case in question where the taxpayers and citizens foot the cost. It's a kind of captive audience where the religious hypocrisy attempts to influence by osmosis.

maker, you are correct. Now I remember. But I'll bet anything he got religion in the big house.

Bill the organization has more funds and therefore more strength? Wiat doesn't the church have an all powerfull all knowing deity on its side?

Anne N. Gaylor was her mother. They started it.

markr - Wasn't Anne's mother the one who started this (nonsense) group??

Book9 - Thank you!!! Finally, it's been said.

The real issue is why did the JSD pick a church to relocate CRES to? They had to know that someone was going to object at some point. Money obviously was an issue, but how much did it cost to bring the location up to code? After likely having to defend against a lawsuit, which they will lose, and having to relocate (again), where's the savings? Another stupid, poorly thought out decision by JSD... and we taxpayers are stuck with it again.

This group is doing this now because they are well aware that the Janesville School District has no spare funds for a legal defense. They want to extort the school district into submission with the threat of expensive legal action for their own glorification, bragging rights as it were.

FFRF has more funds, and therefore more strength, in our very expensive legal system, than the school district does so for them it's an opportune time to force the school district to submit to their will without spending a day in court. It's a cynical and despicable tactic but one that has served them well in the past and will likely work yet again. Might equals right and the supremacy of the financially strong. That's not what the "Golden Rule" looks like in action, but it does bear a remarkable resemblance to the law of the jungle, a philosophy that much more closely resembles evolutionary theory.

MeMyself, you can believe anything you want.

Just don't expect tax-supported government

bodies to endorse or promote it.

The courts may have to decide this issue.

That's how democracies work.

LOL gazettefan...she was actually murdered, along with her son and granddaughter, by a fellow athiest, the next highest ranking member of her organization, who killed them for a fortune in collector's coins they had.

MeMyself-I: that's a pretty dangerous assumption to be making, don't you think?? I know a man. He goes to mass atleast once a week, kids went to parochial schools, he and his wife were deep into the church. He is also the biggest alcoholic. He even went to AA meetings and lied to his kids about it. Imagine. A Christian lying. Unheard of, I know. Going to church doesn't save you from alcoholism and not going doesn't cause it.
.
Napalm: I diasgree. Knowing the difference between right and wrong is not necessarily based on religion. My husband grew up in a very devout Catholic family and went to Catholic schools. He still found himself in major trouble growing up. He knew right from wrong, was a good little Catholic boy in mass and he still made the DECISION to be a jerk.
.
People put too much emphasis on the religious habits of other people! If it works for you, great. If it doesn't work for you, great. Leave it at that.

Murray was murdered by a christian. That's a safe statement because the murderer went to prison and people in prison are overwhelming christians.

Sarah--Gaylor is only 55 years old. Are you sure you're not confusing her with Madeline Murray O'Hare, who led the American Athiests in the 1970s and was murdered many years ago?

I want freedom from Freedom of Religion.

What about the god infected 12 step program? There's nothing more obnoxious than a chain-smoking dry-drunk yammering about Jesus.

I particularly don't like the step that requires a person to go around and apologize to the people who caused his or her drinking problem!!!

The whole Freedom from Religion organization is a total joke. It's actually a pretty small group; and the fact that they choose to butt into such petty issues as this one shows how out of touch with reality they are.

I expect when Gaylor eventually passes they will fade back into obscurity.

I am not convinced this particular case is a wise or useful cause of action. Surely, there are more egregious violations of separation for the FFRF to focus their limited legal resources. The public backlash and confusion created by cases like this often do more harm than good to the legitimate cause of maintaining church/state separation.

I am also not convinced the CRES students are so "confused" they are unable to distinguish schools from churches. I would like to read comments on this case from the students, themselves.

ibarmit, not sure if you truly understand this:

"Congress shall make no law respecting the ESTABLISHMENT of religion....."

It means the government can't enact any laws that accommodate any religion. This includes public schools because public schools are governmental bodies.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The above IS the U.S. Constitution. "Congress shall make no law respecting the ESTABLISHMENT ofreligion....." does not state freedom FROM. How we have allowed the perversion of the constitution.

What?!!!

leostime36, You asked "why to believe in God do you have to attend church?" The answer is that you do not have to attend church but as a true believer in Jesus Christ you would want to attend a good church. Also you say "children that attended church are lucky they came out of it unmolested". I must say in all my years of church & Christian school I have seen nothing of the sort. I would venture to guess that there is more molestation in non-churched families. Then you reference "paying to have faith". There is no price for faith, that is free. You seem so confused.. maybe you should check out a good church this Sunday. Jesus died for your sins, the least you can do is spend an hour in church on the day we celebrate His resurrection.

MeMyself_I

I happen to know a kid who attends CRES very well and they attended a church school through 8th grade so your comment "maybe if they attended church they wouldn't be in that situation" is extremely off-base.

When you have parents who don't parent properly as well as other personal issues (which I'm obviously not going to get into on here) I don't think going to church is going to erase all of those issues with a magic wand and create perfect people.

And if anyone assumes that all the kids attending this school are no-good low life's, you are off-base as well. The person I know is genuinely one of nicest people in the world. But at 16 and having gone through what they've gone, they have made some mistakes and have some issues to work out (as we ALL do).

On another note, chelleandlou, one doesn't need to be religious or believe in god to be able to teach right from wrong to their kids. My dad is agnostic and I can assure you he is one of the most morally sound people I know. He did an excellent job of teaching me right from wrong and I am extremely thankful to him for that. Please don't assume that non-religious people are morally inept and won't know how to properly teach their kids to have morals and ethics.

"would you be happy if your child had to go to a mosque?"
.
Would my child be taught Islam?
A building is not a religion.
.
"some christians accept no medical treatment, even blood transfusions or insulin, ok with your kids being taught that?"
.
Wow...that's out of left field. Are children at CRES being taught that? You assert that there are "commenters who could not read beyond the headline," yet here you are positing a totally baseless hypothetical that has nothing to do with the article whatsoever.
.
"Gallons of christian blood have been spilt over whats the correct way to be chistian."
.
Gallons of American blood have been spilt over what the correct form of governance is.
.
"that why church and state must be separate."
.
That why? What why? I not see why...you show why, please?

"Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword. For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law." Matthew 10:34-35

WHATEVER......HOWEVER......WHENEVER.....FOREVER....... FOR GOD!

Morality, including the "golden rule", exists outside of christianity and even predates christianity.

Morality, including the "golden rule", are phenomena of biological and cultural evolution.

These organizations are a disgrace. Not only to themselves, their family and friends, but to Americans and Christians across the nation. Everything that is moral and ethical is built on religion or religious belief. How else do you teach a child from an early age the difference between right and wrong? Some people just have too much time on their hands!

It is unfortunate that the word religion has taken on such negative connotation. Man's religion has made the idea of being a follower of the Creator to be a weak or futile thing. If people were really after a relationship with God, and not just following the herd, then others would only see the hope that is in our lives! It is your right not to believe, but what if your wrong?

Piznat, I don't think all liberals can be lump as progrsssive nuts. Liberals in traditional liberalism supported lazzie fare economics, which conservatives tend to support now days. I don't think you would enjoy me criticizing the contemporary conservatives with their focus on protecting business and is pretty much to blame for the lack of ethical business practices which caused tax dollars to bail them out and a blank check for military spending. Go ahead and criticize one's views but don't do so by unsupported rhetoric, it doesn't add well to your credibility and promotes ignorance.

If you don't want your kid to go to a church, then place them in any other public school or charter school. With the current economic situation and the other issues that we need to focus on, this is an absolute petty cause and a waste of taxpayer money with all this legal garbage. This program is helping kids who have had some problems and it is a good thing to help kids so their whole lives are not filled with bad choices, addiction, and drama. Who cares - the only people who care should be the parents of the kids and if they don't like it other options are available. If people cared about the kids with their best interest in mind, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The good point, 1 1/2 months, I'll be moving from the Janesville School District (I'm sure they will be pleased to see me leave) and I don't have to waste my tax dollars further fighting this assinine cause when the legal circus begins.

for those commenters who could not read beyond the headline... FFRF was ASKED to step in on this: "Gaylor said her organization acted on a complaint, which was received last July but not acted on until now by a small legal staff." the correct test... would you be happy if your child had to go to a mosque? some christians accept no medical treatment, even blood transfusions or insulin, ok with your kids being taught that? Gallons of christian blood have been spilt over whats the correct way to be chistian.. that why church and state must be separate.

Hey Freedom From Religion, you're not helping anybody. Quit snooping around looking for petty meaningless things to complain about and start doing some good for the world. That's what God wants you to do.

I believe in the Easter Bunny!

No Napalm, YOU don't need religion. Just because it seems to have worked out for you, it doesn't mean it works that way for everyone.

This isn't about religion Napalm...it's about the nut jobs at FFRF who have nothing better to do than meddle in the affairs of others.

memyself you say you have to tio toe around the rest. what about smokers having to stay out of bars diners so you dont breath smoke. and i am not a smoker

Actually, Sannio Thomas Jefferson didn't say that. And the idea of separation of church and state was not to protect the government from the moralities of religion. Rather, it protected people to freely worship from the government. As is evident in some of these real TJ quotes.
"I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man."
"If a nation expects to be ignorant and free ... it expects what never was and never will be."
"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."--
The fact that the church is letting the school board use their meeting hall is one thing. To actually cover up their own materials while it is loaned out shows extreme accomodation. Let's see the same type of generosity from a group like the freedom from religion foundation.

I wish we had freedom from Annie L Gaylor. We don't need her interference in life.

MeMyselft-I-the children that attended church are lucky they came out of it unmolested. Why is it that to believe in God you have to attend church?? Faith should be enough that you don't have to validate yourself by paying to have "faith". To believe in God shouldn't come with a price tag.

I tend to lean to the left and believe in freedom of and from religion, but I really hate these guys. Is there such a thing as freedom from idiots?

Another case where Ms. Gaylor is hoping no one will notice the words "separation of church and state" do not appear anywhere in the first amendment. And if anyone notices this is just an accusation - not a lawsuit. I say ignore her rant. If she still cares have her find and pay for a place for the students to meet.

An interesting Constitutional question if the students are "encouraged because of the situation they are in." A lot of p.o.ed people writing in. Let the courts decide.

This group should keep their noses in Madison! I see nothing wrong with this charter school incorporating religion, especially if it's part of a 12-step program. Perhaps a little religion is what they need to stay strong and fight their addiction. Every day in elementary school we recited "The Pledge of Allegiance". We grew up with values and our generation had no where near the problems our youth are facing today. Maybe we've separated church and State too much......

IT: for once I agree with you .

Yet another proud moment from the liberal progressive nuts that have overrun the politics in Wisconsin. Just wait for what they will try next!

I wonder if Ms.Gaylor believes that US currency sends the wrong message?
(In god we trust).......I'm sure she does.

Religion was not something the Founders necessarily feared and wanted distanced from society and government, but one that must be closely held and carefully regulated for the health of both society and government. Unfortunately, anti-religionists today forget that our nation was based on and intimately connected with, religious freedom -- freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.

BTW, Mr Schultz, where in the constitution does it state "a separation of church and state"? It does not. The First Amendment plainly forbids the creation of a national denomination, because that would be an “establishment of religion."

That's quite the baseless claim, sannio. But thanks just the same for expressing yourself in accordance to your Constitutionally protected right to free speech.

usaret...yes, people who send their kids to religious schools still have to pay taxes that pay for other kids to go to public schools.

Thank you inconvenienttruth, I agree with you. This time. :)

I'm glad we can have this discussion today. There was a time when that wasn't so. People and groups like the Freedom from Religion Foundation are what made it so, and keep it so.
"Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty".
-Thomas Jefferson

The School rooms are not in the Church they are part of the building next to the Church in class rooms down stairs. To suggest otherwise is wrong,but leave it to someone in Madison to throw up a flag! Madison and it's idea's have caused enough problems for the people.

“It sends a message to a confused adolescent who has problems that this church and school are the same thing, and they are a captive audience, and they are required to be there,” Gaylor said. “This is the force of law telling them they have go to a church to get help.”
===============================================
Hogwash! They understand better then you think. It is also the force of law that says adolesents have to go to public schools also.
1. If it saves money, that is good.
2. If the student is receptive, that is the student not the location.
3. If it was held in a bar room, would you feel better? After all, it is separation of church and state, RIGHT?
4. Question: Do people who send their children to a religious school have to pay taxes that pay for other children to go to public schools?

As someone who appreciates a separation of church and state, I believe this is absurd. Material objects are not a religion. A building is not a religion. A voluntary recovery program is not religion. Should the name of this foundation be interpreted so far as to assume it implies the desire for freedom from recognizing the basic existence of religion in any form of expression? Because, unless you'd like to live as a hermit sealed off from society, that "freedom" doesn't exist in this country.
.
"In this economy, there should be something else out there where you don’t have to cover up things..." - Annie Laurie Gaylor, for the Freedom from Religion Foundation.
"The district moved CRES to St. John’s from a commercial building in summer 2009 in a move that was expected to save $28,000 a year." - The Janesville Gazette.
"In this economy," the district has actually made a wise choice. And a legal one, at that.
If the Madison-based Freedom from Religion Foundation feels their accusation against a school district that is some 45 miles away has merit, let's see them attempt legal action.

those who what the goverment to keep thier hands off their medicare.. do you really want the goverment messing with your religion? THAT is why church and state must be seperate. or do you prefer how goverment and religion are joined in the muslum world? that is why the founding fathers separated church and religion, they knew full well what a mess combining the two made out of europe... Ireland is a great example how chuch and state together can cause 100's of years of trouble

The freedom from religion foundation is a bunch of morons who totally misinterpret the true meaning of the constitution as it was written and intended to be! Is this religious oppression? I doubt it

Maybe if these children would have attended church in the first place they wouldn't be in the situation that they are in. Why is it that us that believe in God have to tip toe around people that don't. I should have just as many rights as you.