Glad to have a job and an education. Best wishes to the many who are laid off or unemployed. I hope your families pull together to make it through.

Beeferer,

Thank you, and that was a wise move. If everyone could share your wisdom.

I think I can sum it up for everyone. Life is going to go on for Janesville, GM, it's workers and everyone else so let's bury this skeleton of a horse we've all been kicking for a couple of years and let it go already! Move on with your life people. Many of the posts sound like some sad and twisted soon to be divorced couple fighting over the 10 year old TV. I promise the Sun is going to rise in the morning and life is full of promise and opportunity if you make it happen. Only the Gazette is getting positive results from the GM stories and the hits on the site.

Theone- One thing I'll say about your posts: you are consistent. I'll just leave it at that.

Well said, "Da Wolfman". I commend you for taking the initiative to assess your options and make difficult decisions. Thank you also for your succinct post, it was informative without being sarcastic or self-serving...greatly appreciated. I wish you the best.

A simple response from any of the mentioned in the articles could have been, "Look I know this is unfortunate for many of the workers in Janesville, but we are grateful that we have the opportunity in this downed economy to continue working for the company that we love, and having the benefits we get." But no, we hear is how the area will die, a and Janesville it the next ghost town, and why because GM is FORCING me/us to leave.

Yah I got the whole POST thing, do you?
Post: being singular, meaning one post.
PostS: being plural, meaning more then one.

Even changing your rules, I still met your requests…

Nice to see that you conceded, and next time when bringing forth a challenge, you might want to make sure you can win. You look silly when you lose your own game!

The_one…are you blankety-blank serious? This IS a game to you, isn’t it? Well, I’m quitting after this turn, and would not even take it except you’re swelled head would swell even further if you thought I acquiesced, threatening to bust and get that nasty stuff all over the inside of my monitor.
You say “you can’t change the rules of your challenge whenever it’s convenient for you”…but my “challenge” is found in in my post agreeing to Beeferer’s statement, where I said to him:
“Beeferer, your question ...."Can somebody- anybody- show me, by indicating a date and time, where there is a POST (caps are mine, The_One, for emphasis: Get it? POST) by a GM employee who is complaining?".... has been asked countless times since this whole Jvl GM closing was announced and unconnected citizens decided to celebrate with GM worker insults. I never see an answer or documented "whines". And I don't mean the paraphrasing of occasional GMer comments -who do they THINK will be affected and have a reason to comment?”
If, as you eventually imply, you and your ilk are bashing a miniscule sample of GM workers who are deadbeats (equal to the percentage of deadbeats in ANY company), then why the big fuss? Why bother? Those kinds of workers are everywhere and who would put them on a pedestal? No-all these rants all these months specify GM workers in general (like your “screwing in a turn signal” statement.) each time a story comes up about GM IN GENERAL and its present or former workers. No good reason to have thousands of hateful posts generalizing ALL the workers even if there WERE a handful of whiners.
So, The_one, we were talking about POSTS…. but I STILL replied to your examples from the Gazette interviews. These were solicited comments, as I said, and answers to specific questions. If any laid off worker were to say “It’s the best thing that ever happened to me.” they’d also be called liars or UC suckers besides being called “whiners“ and “crybabies“. Oh-for the record-I know I didn’t mention it previously-but I also don’t mean quotes from wooo’s posts about what he “hears” from all those GM workers he “sees” in the bars.
And if TheJoker were actually to say "this issue has been beaten to death“, I also wouldn’t be able to agree more. (And I sincerely apologize for my part in it.) It’s not about you; it’s not about me, either; it’s about DaWolfman and those who have been directly affected and worked hard for their employer (really? “screwing in a turn signal” you say?!), so let’s take TheJoker’s imaginary advice and “move on already.”

“As you can see, my points are valid and undeniable.” Sorry, not so. I’m not talking about taking these few comments from Gazette stories twisted to sound like whining. Some DID whine? I’m talking about the implication that most or all of these ex-Jvl GM workers were whiners and complainers, and that their whines and complaints were most of the posts under GM stories.”

Look, you can’t change the rules of your challenge whenever it’s convenient for you. You asked for examples, and I gave you examples. You never said how many you wanted some. Now that I beat you at your own game, you want to change it to ex-employees that have moved on and have a happy live in their new town. Of course, that isn’t going to happen, but if you have ever read mine or many others posts on here, those people were never the issue. It’s the ones still here in town who sat around for two years doing nothing, and want to put all this gloom and doom on this town because there job benefits are ending. Those are the ones that I, and most everyone else has issues with. The “hey, Janesville GM is coming back you’ll see” guy is doing nothing for this City who wants to move on already. Look if this City is dying because you guys are all leaving, then fine… Let us die. But, I really don’t believe GM is that big of a factor that a town of 60,000 people will all parish because of a loss of 3,000.

And to your comment "Doesn’t that quote sound like something The Joker would say?". No, I don't think it does. Not knowing The Joker personally, I can't speak for him, but if I had to guess... I would guess him to say something like "this issue has been beaten to death, and regardless of what anyone says, the fact still remains that GM is not coming back to Janesville so could we just move on already!". And I couldn't agree more.

DaWolfman...you've summed it up. Nicely!

Bravo, DaWolfman!!!!! My husband is retired from GM, put in 32 and 1/2 years. He has told me about the hard work back then and yes, he also told me on breaks they would go up on the roof and watch the stars, no drinking involved. One of my brother-in-laws died also at the plant here. He died of a heart attack while in the paint booth. Very sad. Thank you, DaWolfman and hope you and your loved ones will be together either here or there. Signed Karen

i guess i could jump in here. I first got laid off from GM in Dec of 08. 2 months later i was brought back to help demote the plant and was laid off again the second week of July 09. yea i recieved my benefits but the whole time i was looking for work as were most of my friends. some were lucky to hook up with other company's maybe within a few hours of here. i read the papers ( by going to the library) searching the internet and things of this nature. its tough whent he umemployment rate is near 14% in this county(check out the article in Forbes mag here. one of the 10 worst counties to find work in to support a family.)all the time i was hoping something would turn up. well, things were coming to head and i took a transfer to Ft Wayne. did i want to? a lifelong Janesville resident born and raised here. all my family here. yea, it was with regret i did it, but it was decided best by not only me, but my family as well. they are still in Janesville. i live in Ft Wayne and come home every two weeks to see them. our choice. no whining, no complaining. MOST have not done any whining. they did what they had to as as well. our choice. i started working with GM because of the benefits. some of the best in the business. people say well, you don't work at all then. well, on the line if you consider touching a vehicle for 53-57 seconds of every minute not working, then so be it. as a tradesman, we put our lives on the line daily. and yea, i did have a friend die at work so don;t say we don;t put our lives on the line. we deal with things that most people can't fathom on a daily basis. i put in 23 plus years in Janesville and i'm proud of it. some of the best quality vehicles came out of that plant. if i recall, 3 that are considered perfect builds. my point is, yea, i joined GM for the benefits but the pride in the job took over. we did our best tp put out quality vehicles. the plant closed, so most of us have moved on. no whining, no complaining. we're apart from our families up to weeks at a time depending on location. thats part of life working for a company that has great benefits.

Micgue09, believe it or not, I quite agree with you on most counts…at least to some degree. And, believe it or not, so did many GM employees. The “severance” benefits in many cases were quite healthy, and offered in different ways for different reasons, just as people took advantage of them, or not, for different reasons. In some cases they needed workers elsewhere but were contractually obligated to offer present workers with seniority a job before offering it to the man on the street. Do you think only major companies, but not their employees, have a right to protect themselves? We KNOW GM was protected; but the peon with 75% of his life gone should be out on the street after 25 years on the job? Yes, it happens to some. Should it? But many of these workers got more than some posters here think they should have (Why!? Why do they think individuals should suffer but a huge company should get off easy? Where is their self-esteem?), and are now silently, uncomplainingly, living their new lives.
You said “My husband was told he was loosing his job by June 1st after 10 years. No GM buyout…” Well, I assume he didn’t work for GM(?) so that explains no GM buyout, but if his loyalty of 10 years was not (apparently) worth anything to him, why should it be to his company? Realistically, every company cannot concern themselves with what happens to their employees when and if trouble comes along, but we're not talking about a dog-walking business, Many have said to GM workers “You made the choice to….”, well….need I say it?
But you are so right in saying “The future is what you make of it..” My problem is with the people who ignore the vast majority of these workers who HAVE moved on, like I said, “silently, uncomplainingly”. But these bitter posters concentrate their negativity on those few who are still here (though many are going to school, etc) and jump on random candid comments made during interviews. But they have implied all along that these whining comments were HERE under these stories. THOSE are the ones we asked to see.
The_one: Your comment “As you can see, my points are valid and undeniable.” Sorry, not so. I’m not talking about taking these few comments from Gazette stories twisted to sound like whining. Some DID whine? I’m talking about the implication that most or all of these ex-Jvl GM workers were whiners and complainers, and that their whines and complaints were most of the posts under GM stories. But, Mr. One, the vast majority have already begun their new lives and don‘t even comment here. Please, reference some quotes from THAT vast majority. Until you can, “…my points are valid and undeniable.” (Doesn’t that quote sound like something The Joker would say?)

Mr. Kid,

Thanks for you’re your thoughts, and welcome to the “Basher Club!”

“I didn’t know there were good guys and bad guys.”
***
Yes there are good guys and bad guys… the good guys are the ones who regardless of your position, post comments based on facts. The bad guys are the ones that can only respond by saying you’re a basher for voicing your opinion, and have no real comeback with logical facts.

“You’re either on the GM worker “side”, or, if not, you’re one of the good guys? Really”
***
Well kind of, you see I support the ones that moved on, or transferred. Just not the ones that sat at home and are now pressed with this sudden decision, a mear two years after they last worked.

“First off, many or all of your examples are quotes taken from interviews where direct questions are asked of the workers. They required direct answers, not sugar-coated sweetness and light comments to placate the “good guys”.
***
But that’s the point you asked for whining and I gave you whining.

“Muenchow says, “I feel like my hand’s being forced now,” Muenchow continued. “I don’t want to sound like a whiner. A lot of people lost their jobs and didn’t receive as much money as I have from their employer.”
***
Ok, if he himself says he doesn’t want to sound like a whiner, and you wanted a whiner, what better way to show you a whiner then a man who says he doesn’t want to sound like one. He says this because he really knows what he’s about to say will make him sound like one.

“Ok, many people moved to other locations with (relative) enthusiasm (because they had an option to keep working), and you have quotes from…how many people?”
***
Well most people work, so I don’t have all day to search all the articles. Besides you never set a minimum needed, you just want some, and you got them.

“They paid for this option through the dues they paid all those years. Do you understand that the rug has been pulled out from underneath these families? Yes FAMILIES!! Then when they try to protect themselves by quickly enrolling in local tech programs(nursing,electrical and many other programs they waited to get into)they are again getting screwed! Now,they probally won't be able to finish these programs they alredy started last fall…”
***
No not, ouch, they are upset because they needed to give concessions.

As you can see, my points are valid and undeniable.

No one earns anything from a company other than a paycheck for the job you have done. GM went far and above what the normal employee gets from a company. What you "earned" was a paycheck and nothing more. The decision to move or not is entirely up to the employee. Moving benefits are not offered to most people. I think the package offered was supreme considering they probably didn't have to offer anything. Go to work in a "right-to-work" state and find out if you are offered anything other than your pink slip. My husband was told he was loosing his job by June 1st after 10 years. No GM buyout, no benefits, no insurance extension, no re-education benefits, no Federal bailout and on and on. Whatever decision you make, don't look back. The future is what you make of it, not what GM offers you.

To continue, The_One:
Muenchow says, “I feel like my hand’s being forced now,” Muenchow continued. “I don’t want to sound like a whiner. A lot of people lost their jobs and didn’t receive as much money as I have from their employer.”
The_one….I’m sorry-I can’t see the problem with that. Please elaborate

You also stated: “You would think, if GM, is such a great job, and you are making a kings ransom there, I would think this would be a joyous announcement, but lets see…”
Ok, many people moved to other locations with (relative) enthusiasm (because they had an option to keep working), and you have quotes from…how many people? People still here to be interviewed, people being asked point blank how they feel. And they were not supposed to say OUCH because they were only injured but not mortally wounded?
“I received my letter last Tues. and had to reply by the following day (Wed.). It is very hard to make a major life decision in one day. I realize I have been off work since Dec. 2008...”
Sounds like she is replying to a question. Replying, not lying. Simply saying “OUCH”!
““They paid for this option through the dues they paid all those years. Do you understand that the rug has been pulled out from underneath these families? Yes FAMILIES!! Then when they try to protect themselves by quickly enrolling in local tech programs(nursing,electrical and many other programs they waited to get into)they are again getting screwed! Now,they probally won't be able to finish these programs they alredy started last fall…”
OUCH!!
They were asked if it hurt, and they replied. Where is your injury, The_One?

OK-the-one (which ONE?) you’re on, but let me preface my comments by saying: you write just like I do sometimes, (so DON’T take offense to this) so your 2 posts got very confusing, and I’ll try to edit my comments to keep it less so.
And also, you said “Looks like some needs to speak up for the good guys!” so I thought you were of the same mind as some of us are….because the only “guys” in question should be the GM “guys”. I didn’t know there were good guys and bad guys in this. Really? You’re either on the GM worker “side”, or, if not, you’re one of the good guys? Really. Well, that is a lot of what we were saying right at the start. So I really don’t need to say more, but I will (about your “challenges”).
First off, many or all of your examples are quotes taken from interviews where direct questions are asked of the workers. They required direct answers, not sugar-coated sweetness and light comments to placate the “good guys”. And some were at the beginning (for the workers) of the end of their security, something many had worked and paid for many years. If you’d worked there (but you wouldn’t be writing this, of course) you would have first hand knowledge of all the nitty-gritty of their contract.
If/when asked later, many workers will have come to terms with the gravity of the situation and moved on. That’s like unintentionally having your foot crushed by your friend’s car and he gets all upset because you said “OUCH”, because, after all, he didn’t mean it. So-you shouldn’t admit that it hurt because it wasn’t personal, and you‘re not dead, you‘ve only lost a few toes.
Now, I’ll (and I bet others) reply to your other examples as time permits. I look forward to it.

The-One: i thought your 6:53 post was great and you just topped it:) i too share your version of a sucky life and i love it:)

Now she writes, “I realize I have been off work since Dec, 2008.” Why do you think she did that? It’s because she knows that she just didn’t wake up one day and poof there was a decision to make. She is setting the reader up to feel bad for her and others in her situation. She then goes on to add, ““The money is not everything. How can living in another state by yourself while your loved ones are still in Wi. be worth it? And before you judge that comment, the reasons are personal.” Well if it isn’t QUIT. Again, she adds the “before you judge that comment…” warning because she knows she has options just can’t make a choice and wants sympathy.
So, that was a recent article… Let’s go back in time. Stacy Vogel wrote this article on 12-05-2008, entitled “Most workers not happy about elimination of JOBS Bank.” This was taken from this article, “Some have decried the JOBS Bank program as paying laid-off workers to do nothing, but Bob Veum, a 22-year GM employee, said workers have earned the benefit through their union. “We put that money in for this reason,” he said. Other workers leaving the plant Thursday put it bluntly when asked what they thought of losing the JOBS Bank. “Terrible!” one shouted. “It’s bad.” “I think we’re getting screwed.” “We’re going to lose money.” So even though GM is about to go under and your going to loose your job, your telling me that; “your getting screwed”, and “your going to loose money?” They must not know that for the next two years they get to stay home for nothing. As you can see, even at the loss of their jobs and the future of GM relying on their decision, they thought THEY were being screwed!
Blogers response:
12-05-2008 @ 10:06am Hooters writes: “So GM and the UAW can change the rules of the game just like that? Well, then I can keep my GM vehicles and not pay GM for them...wouldn't you think? Poor poor me…

25-05-2008 @ 5:27pm truthbtold writes: “They paid for this option through the dues they paid all those years. Do you understand that the rug has been pulled out from underneath these families? Yes FAMILIES!! Then when they try to protect themselves by quickly enrolling in local tech programs(nursing,electrical and many other programs they waited to get into)they are again getting screwed! Now,they probally won't be able to finish these programs they alredy started last fall becuase they will have to find another job to support the family. Hundreds where depending on this to get the degrees they needed becuase they don't have enough senority to tranfer. Now what? They might lose everything..”
They will have to find another job to support their families, can you believe that? Finding a job is now required to get paid.

Well that should do you for now. Good luck with your rebuttal.

Looks like some needs to speak up for the good guys! You want examples fine, but if I put examples up, you will have to promise to respond only if you can put together a thought with a little common sense, facts rebutting what was said. Not just your typical "your just jealous" or "your just a basher."

If you can't before you read any farther, go to your top right corner of your scream and just click the little "X" to log out.

Now, lets start with: Date: 5-9-2010 Reporter: Frank Schultz Title: "GM forcing workers to move to Ohio."

This title is a great start. When Mr. Schultz, or the Janesville Gazette, printed this title, I would guess in hindsight they would have reworded it a little. No one, including GM is making anyone do anything they do not want to do. You would think, if GM, is such a great job, and you are making a kings ransom there, I would think this would be a joyous announcement, but lets see. In the article, Muenchow says, “I feel like my hand’s being forced now,” Muenchow continued. “I don’t want to sound like a whiner. A lot of people lost their jobs and didn’t receive as much money as I have from their employer.”

Let us not forget, that money was while you were not working, and they are offering you continued employment if you want it. The problem is there would need to be a little work on your part, not to mention you would need to go back to work.

Blogers responded to this article. On May 10 @ 9:42am: Joan writes; “GM workers - I am so sorry to hear that you are in such a spot.” Really? Sorry that instead of letting their benefits run out be released and rehire others for less money, your sorry that they are given a option to transfer? Me too.

May 11th @ 1:13pm Hooters writes: “On May 5th, letters started arriving via Fed Ex (note letters dated 4/26/10) informing layed off GM employees (many of which are going to school and working part time jobs in the community) that they MUST transfer to Ohio immediately or loose all remaining benefits & opportunity to transfer. Call it whining if you will....because those who bash won't understand the human suffering here because you think "hey...you have a job, so go". Having a job to transfer to after sitting at home for two years is a good thing, but still not enough because we have to now put in effort to keep our job.

May 12th @ 5:12pm Marylou writes: “The reason they call it a forced transfer is because they are forcing you to make a decision, and they are giving you a time line to do it in. I received my letter last Tues. and had to reply by the following day (Wed.). It is very hard to make a major life decision in one day. I realize I have been off work since Dec. 2008.” “The money is not everything. How can living in another state by yourself while your loved ones are still in Wi. be worth it? And before you judge that comment, the reasons are personal.”

Your welcome justme46 and wooooo- I once heard that it is sometimes better to keep your mouth shut and have people think your an idiot than open it and remove all doubt. Too late for you tho.

Does this mean GM is not coming back to Janesville?

Thanks for leveling the playing field, RUSerious. I didn't mean to sound immature but then again, that is all the bashers understand. And, yes, thank you granpa!

ooopppsss bad grammer, I like getting all you fired up it showes that janesville might have a chance and then it might not.

Good one granpa! LOL!

wooooo- What exactly is "freedome" or "speach"? What country are you from? Those words aren't English.

Beeferer no freedome of speach is what you are saying then why dont you leave this country.

Ya know I've been readin this board for a few days now. I been wantin to say soomethin but its alot more fun just sittin back an readin. but I must say at this point I think that BillyDurant,
RUSerious, NeoBartly, justme46 and beeferer won by a landslide. And about that wooooo fella? I don't know what to think about him, couple of fries short of a happy meal.

30,000.00 to resume your job after a year or 2 off..?.. Not bad.. In fact I heard the ones that left a year sooner got 75,000.00.. I am very happy that people are getting their jobs back, but to receive these sort of "transfer" monies is RIDICULOUS. Most people in the real world would be told to just get their azz`s there.. Thats alot of extra dough to be going back to work to do your job, I don`t know what fool wouldnt take it!

Interesting. As soon as we challenge the bashers to verify their claims that GMers are whining or complaining, as soon as we challenge the bashers to come up with evidence to support their outrageous posts, they suddenly disappear and all we get are cricket chirps. THEN... the Gazette buries the article- it's no fun anymore if they can't amuse themselves by instigating a war-of-the-words and sitting back and do a little rib-poking with each other. Well Gazette, what's next? What kind of nonsense are you cooking up for your next boat-rocking, pot-stirring controversy? Shame shame shame. You are more childish than some of the bashers. And you know what? Now I am wondering which one on your staff goes by the username of "wooooo"? That would explain a lot because I don't think there could possibly be anyone that immature and still be able to find their way around a keyboard.

Of course we do encourage this childish exchange, justme46, by even responding to posts very obviously written by trolls (classic examples)--bored and childish nobodies filled with angst and bitterness in their own lives; otherwise I can’t think of a reason in the world for their interest, and lack of response to our requests to prove what they’ve stated about the heretofore respected workforce (by more knowledgeable experts than they) of our local GM plant.
But I guess it’s like trying to reason with a spoiled child…you keep trying even when you know that 3 year olds have no reasoning power.
(I'm so ashamed, but I wanted to level the playing field.)

RUSerious and NeoBartly, I am with you. People need to stop the bashing. And as one very polite poster mentioned, all Gmer's rode on a gravy train! Where did they ride it too? Unemployment, foreclosure, moving expenses, Ohio, Kansas? You tell me. Like people have said, these are real living breathing human beings with feelings that you are bashing. I can't wait til the new hospital opens, then Mercy employees will be treated just as GM people are now. Shame, Shame. And one last thing, grow up and put on your big girl/boy panties!

See what I mean, beeferer? As I recall, all those months ago GM had the unpleasant task of informing hundreds and hundreds of local workers that their livelihood, and in many cases the only work life that they had known for decades and generations, and the “world” as they’d known it, would soon be ending. Not just being let go from a fast food joint after 6 months; not being laid off as a teacher (yes-a terrible thing, too) from one school but many others seeking educators, but the family tradition for a century, would no longer be.
So, they get compensation-great!! Who among you would turn it down? Who? I’m really asking.
So-the 2 posts before this one convolute it to mean all these workers just up and quit their jobs for no reason and now refuse to go back and continue where they left off.
The Gazette does stories on this upheaval, and so many posters “pretend” it’s the actual workers who craft these stories to enlist community sympathy. If the Gazette interviews employees to get THEIR perspective, should they lie and say it’s the opportunity they’ve been waiting for their whole lives, or should they do what should be a standard human interest story and tell about the real effects? There will be real effects, you know. They’re not asking for anyone's sympathy-they’re doing a solicited interview.
Once and for all, DON’T READ IT IF YOU ARE NOT INTERESTED OR AFFECTED! (Unless trolling is your hobby, of course.)

T-Bov: "John Wayne it is your fault you went on to college instead of working for GM, so quit acting like a crybaby cause you dont make as much waaa"

T-Bov, you totally missed the point JohnWayne was making. A college educated person SHOULD ALWAYS make more than someone working an assembly line. For the disparity to be so enormous when you consider the level of vision, dental, medical benefits, mandatory mental health days, vacation time, etc., no wonder people are just incredulous whenever a GM employee thinks they're being slighted. My god, you've had the gravy train of all gravy trains. Now it's over....time to put your big girl panties on and join the real world.

The nerve of GM - asking people to work - what has become of our country? Do we NEED to be so darn productive all the time?

Beeferer, your question ...."Can somebody- anybody- show me, by indicating a date and time, where there is a post by a GM employee who is complaining?".... has been asked countless times since this whole Jvl GM closing was announced and unconnected citizens decided to celebrate with GM worker insults. I never see an answer or documented "whines". And I don't mean the paraphrasing of occasional GMer comments-who do they THINK will be affected and have a reason to comment?
According to them, actual GM employees ARE NOT allowed to comment, and if they do, it will be taken as a "whine" or, occasionally, as a "holier-than-thou" comment if they can't find a way to construe it as a "whine". However, you will not actually be shown any actual "whines" by them no matter how many times anyone asks, not even the entirely plausible comments on how actual GM workers are or will be affected by this whole event.
Apparently, an article (or many articles) that could very well affect the entire lives of whole families is not intended to get actual comments from those families, but is meant to finally offer an opportunity to those who've despised them all these years to finally be able to show their scorn. THAT is what constitutes most of the comments.
Also, about wooo and his previous incarnation on these story comments: He has "heard from several GM workers this week at bar" so many times that he must have had to set up base camp there and taken notes. A not very well disguised case of rage (probably caused by envy.)

This article says the LAST have been offered.
psssssst Thats the first Untruth in the media. So, why read further?
-
I have not been offered anything at all. None, zip ziltch naddah. My parents are not well. (understatement). I am not well. (complete understatement). I am in college, taking over 16 credits per semester; not sitting on my lorals. I paid into these programs for 29 years. I earned it. I served the country for 5 difficult years. I earned it. I worked for GM for 29.5 years. I earned it.
Yah wanna know why those of us are still here?
We earned it. A simple answer yah desired? A simple answer I will give you.
I earned It.
What have you done for the world lately? and I ask in all civil, true calm uncondasending maner.
What have you done lately that says Your somehow worthy of discrediting those of us that have given of ourselves?
You must be a proud member of this community to be as so bold as to knock down people you do not even know, to sumerise ALL GM workers to be as scurdge of the earth mentality.
You are Shameless.
You have not earned the rite to hurt unknown people. You never will earn that rite.

A person with any selfless value is condemned for Staying behind and providing assistance to older family members.
An individual presented with other health issues, and a need to remain within a area to contend with them is wronged by un-knowing haters.
Those seeking to improve themselves by education locally, utilizing the government grants they earned Serving the Country Militarally, are slammed for remaining vigillant towards the goal of achieveing a better tomorow.
The days of the *old GM-erz are dead folks.
You wanted facts of WHY's? Maybe instead of assumptions, you may desire to ASK, openly with a true interest; instead of cursing the earth many walk upon.
Yah know why GM workers respond as they do? Because you do not sober-faced just inquire humanly. You jump to conclusions as you always have. You go on trumped-up information that is not true. Then you just bash on false pretence. Thats why WE have No Time Of Day for your kind.
Wake-up and become a functioning, well rounded, contributing memeber of society that has a heart, and true understanding of those things which You do not understand.
People are hurting. People are self-sacrificing for their families. Humans, not statistics. Lives, real people. Real issues. Real travisties. It is real sad. Real sad.

OK, I have reread all of the posts here. Every single one of them. The only one crying is wooooo and he/she/it is definitely NOT a GMer. Can somebody- anybody- show me, by indicating a date and time, where there is a post by a GM employee who is complaining? Please? This is driving us all batty. Is the Gazette slipping in posts and then removing them? I just can't find one!

I am amazed that people are complaining about receiving this job offer. I am further amazed that GM is so generous with the job offer. No wonder they are bankrupt.

Take the job offer. This is not a sacrifice you are making. Not even close. If you want to see real sacrifice, honor those men and women who lost their lives defending our country. I hope this Memorial Day you remember what sacrifice really means.

Justaguy,

Some people just never learn (do you)! You see, I don't think you are crying... You show it every time you post. So regardless of what you think of me, the point is the best you can do is call me a "basher" or a "crybaby." That's it! Never can you or any of the GM supporters argue a valid point. It's just, "No were not, you are" posts. So as you can see you prove my point, for me every time you or anyone like you post a comment. Insted of coming back with proof and articulate facts, you have no other choice but to resort to the "basher/crybaby" comment.

Also about my life being sucky? I guess if being a young, intelligent, confident, and articulate individual with a point a view that is agiant yours means I have a sucky life then I guess I do, but I'll take it any day!

Justme46,

First off I come in peace... But seriously, congrats on the job! I think the issue that you and may other supporters are missing is that the frustration has nothing to do with GM. In fact, it seems as if that is the popular route for GM'ers to take. Simple defecting of the true issue buy calling non-supporters "GM Bashers", or making it sound as if GM is the issue here. I am without question a supporter of GM as a car company and the cars they make. Its the people that have this gift for TWO YEARS of sitting around and available transfers that just cry because GM is doing this to them... That is what angers most, and rightfully so!

Justme46: I just read your post and noticed what you said about woooo, he sounds more like a freakin nut more than anything, JMO. To think of all the years he must have been hating GMers before the plant colsed, and like some inmature kid he kicks them when they are down .... maybe oneday he'll grow up but I don't see that happening anytime too soon, he cries too much.

theone: If you think I was crying you're a putz, I have no reason to. On the other hand it sounds like you're one of those green with envy cry baby GM bashers as you did in your last post. I don't hear and GMers here crying poor me, the job deal sounds like something they will jump at. You're the one doing all the crying so maybe you should rethink your life, sounds like it must suck, JMO.

Why in the world are all you posters bashing a business that once was the heartbeat of our city? I still, personally, would not like to uproot and move. Money or no money. For those of you who take this offer, good luck and be glad you have a job and the money to find a place to live. Janesville had 3 big employers: Mercy Health System, The Janesville Gazette and General Motors. One is now gone, one is going to go through losing patients and employees and the good ole' Gazette will go on til someone decides to publish another newspaper here in Janesville. So, why do you hate and why do you bash? Wooooo, you need to change your name, kind of shows your mentality. I am going to give the jobless a hint, go to mercyhealthsytems.org and apply. They are hiring right and left because they want an A1 staff before Dean opens their hospital. I applied 2 months ago and just got hired. It is cleaning, but so what! It is a job. The pay is not fantastic, but you can work your way up. Signed Karen

Justaguy,

The better question would be, if he was getting that kind of money, and then forced to transfer to keep his pay, would anyone write about it in the paper as much as the Gazette, and would he be sitting here giving everyone the poor me routine as GM'ers... My guess is no! So take your own advice and "stop your crying and grow up."

No problem. I was merely passing along information- nothing more.

Sorry, May 21st post.

packattack: If it was your union getting you that kind of money would you be a basher? I bet not. Stop your crying and grow up, JMO.

Beeferer, in your May 31st blog you referred to reopening the plant using Tier II wages with no benefits and no pensions. It appeared to me that you thought this was a bad thing. Sorry if I misconstrued what you had written. It is hard on everyone when jobs go by the wayside. One can accept that their job is gone and pursue other avenues or sit idle and wait for something to happen. It usually doesn't. :)

Micque09- Right now I guess you mistakenly referred to me instead of whoever it was you meant to refer to. I reread my post and can't find anything that would have given the impression that I thought anything was unfair. I am content. I am sorry you are so upset, but don't blame me.

Micque09- I have no idea where you got the idea that I thought tier II wages were an insult to work for. If anything those wages are still above and beyond anything an unskilled worker can get. Where did I give you that idea???!!!

The One, JW WAS THE ONE COMPLAINING HE DIDNT MAKE THE MONEY OR BENFITS AS GM WORKERS,HE WENT TO COLLEGE INSTEAD OF WORKING AT GM. SORRY YOU THOUGHT IT WAS DUMB BUT HEY WE ALL HAD A CHANCE TO WORK THERE.

By the way, the cost was $32,000 for 2 years. Some was paid by GA Hope Fund, not much. He is paying off $22,000 forever for his education. If I understood it correctly, GM offered tuition to those who wanted to go back to school. If you thought 2 years of benefits and pay was unfair, you have not been in the real world lately where 600 people apply for 2 jobs and hope they are one of the lucky ones.

Beeferer, you blogged about the Tier 11 wages and it seemed as if $16 + was an insult to work for. Since when? And in what city? After 2 years of Airframe and Power Plant School, my son is only making $15.00+ to work on airplanes you fly on. The Union shops make up to $30 hr + but Delta is hard to get into. You try and find a job that makes more than $16+ an hour anywhere. If my son went to school for 2 years, so can a displaced GM worker to change their employment opportunities. So, before you get on a flight somewhere, ask yourself if the dude who worked on the engine, wiring, electronics last time it was in for maint. had a degree or not and if that changes your thoughts about flying. Maybe that is also why so many have a hard time dealing with the GM wage structure without any higher education background to work there. I always said, Janesville goes the way of the plant and it has.

Tbov,

Outside of the thought that GM is coming back, your comment, "it's your fault you went on to college instead of working at GM" is the dumbest thing I've heard. Just take a look who's employed and although not making as much as a guy screwing in a turn signal, John Wayne isn't worrying about having to relocate. I would think that would make up for the few dollars an hour... What do you think GM'ers?

Legacy costs need to be calculated as well. Every vehicle that GM sells is saddled with close to $2000 in legacy costs before the first bolt is turned. In the 2009 new car rankings, the majority of the top 10 as far as reliability is concerned were Japanese. For the most part people aren't jealous. I had no problem with GM factory workers making the wages they did, as long as they did it on their terms and kept their own house in order. There is something to consider and that is quality of life. You couldn't pay me enough to work in a factory like that 8 hours a day. That's why many of us go to college! I think what upset people is that GM obviously cannot sustain it's inflated wage structure, taxpayers were forced to cover the difference though our "investment" in GM--one that is expected to lose us in the neighborhood of $30 billion......That's what upsets people. As far as the current GM cars being crap--who knows? I swore off American cars back in the 90's when I switched to the Japanese autos. I've never owned a "problem" Japanese car, and unless they seriously let me down, I will remain loyal to them.....:)

I lost my job 4 years ago and moved to Atlanta. My husband was staying in Janesville and putting the house up for sale. I rented an apartment. A month later he came to Atlanta Metro and had found a position. We left behind friends of 20+ years, our home, our families in Madison and Chicago and off we went. The GM worker has had opportunities provided by their employer, while many have not and are forced to move to keep themselves at a level of satisfaction and well being. It was not easy and after 4 years in the Atlanta metro, would I come back to Janesville?, in a heartbeat if there was work. Our children were on their own and as it has worked out, 1 is in Knoxville only 3 hours away. Whatever decision one makes is hard but has to be made. Whatever GM workers decide to do, do it and don't look back and say what if....it doesn't work. Look for your future and what you want. We still own a home in Janesville and have been unable to sell it with the market the way it is, but we have hope. Atlanta Metro's unemployment rate is 13% and going up with a Ford and Chev plants that are idle and virtually brand new. So, no matter where you wind up, there is always someone who has it worse than you.

svrwthr: also, might wanna check out J.D. Power and associates. you can find who ranks where in quality as far as auto's. recently Ford beat Toyota (before its problems) in quality i believe it was for the Focus. The Malibu tied with one of the other foriegns not sure which one.

svrwthr- Let's say a worker makes $25/hour for labor. It takes 30 hours to make a car. The car costs $25,000. 30 hours X $25 = $750. $750 X 100 = 75000. 75000/25000 = 3%.

i love reading all these posts,theyre so amusing.lol.people bashing gm,gm bashing back.who the hell cares?all i care about is that people go back to work,hey to all of you out there running your mouth about gm,bet you wish that plant was open now!!!!!!! my husband worked at lsi,an he didnt get a raw deal as you call it at all,they paid him everything they owed him,he knew going in,what he was going to get if this ever happened an so did the rest of you.now shut the hell up an leave people alone,omg!i cant believe i said that,but someone needed too,lol.just hope an pray something comes here,so people can get back to work,an to you gmers who get to work,good luck to you,an sorry you have to be away from your familys so much,an i truly mean it.an to you loud mouth wine bags from gm,you shut up too.there is alot of good people that worked an work for gm,an you make them all look bad with your mouths.now good luck to everyone an have a nice day.

Why don't you all stop crying. Yes, sure we would all have liked to work for GM. But I am going to disagree with the people that say the cost of vehicles is 5% from labor. That is B.S. American made vehicles are thousands of dollars more expensive than foreign vehicles because of labor cost. And foreign made vehicles have to be shipped across seas to get here but yet are cheaper. I have a father who worked at GM and many friends that work there. I know how lazy GM workers can be. Yes you have some hard workers but the costs for labor is not accountable for 90% of the jobs at GM. I've heard the stories of people doing a 2 persons job half the day and the other person swapping in the afternoon. I have heard about the drinking,the drugs, during work hours. I know many who abused the system the UAW put in to save persons jobs getting caught doing these things any other job you'd be fired on the spot. I know persons that took 6 months leave because they have a slight injury that any real worker could work with. Any person that does not work for GM would have to come back to work in a reasonable time or go under fmla. Yes, we would all like to work for GM, so we can pay for an American made vehicle. But you know what, we don't work for GM, we work harder than GM workers, and get paid less than tier II that is being talked about. Let the UAW and GM'rs complain about this fact written here. You know you have it made and will defend it. As would I if I were in your position. But you all have to understand, that is whining on your part.

I am one of the 99% of America that does not work for GM that does not have UAW protection and realizes that American made vehicles are cheaply (poorly) made just like their foreign counterparts. I am also one of the 99% none UAW GM workers of America that doesn't pull a clear $900.00 a week paycheck with all medical paid. I have to pay 80/20 and some people have to pay 60/40 in medical and we make $400 clear a week. So when you complain about us being jealous, we are. When you complain about us whining, no, we're pissed you want us to buy American and make 55% less than you plus have to pay our medical bills. Just remember that the rest of us aren't the 1% and we buy what we can afford even it means a better product from a Japanese, Chinese, Mexican or German manufacturer. Want to say that is the problem because we aren't buying American because of that? Well then take a cut in pay, take less benefits and reduce the costs of the product so that your greedy CEO's can take a bigger paycheck and reduce the prices of American made products. I know this won't satisfy you GM people but until you make the money like the rest of Americans, and pay for most your medical bills, then you will never know why or what it is like.

NeoBartly, a bar? me? i have not had Liquor in any form since 1986. i have been in bars but only to see my old friends from the plant and have a bite to eat. GET REAL. those of us in the GM system have other ways of finding out info. its called the Web and from our bosses when in plant. what sights you ask? try Detroit Free Press and the main GM sight for two.
wooooo: i DID leave BECAUSE i have a family. it came down to my only option to support them. most will prolly do the same. Rock county is dead for jobs to support families. i also live like i said, two weeks at a time away from them and no i'm not crying about it. its a fact of life.

woooooo- It is painfully obvious that you don't have a clue about anything you are talking about. Butox® is a range of formulations containing the synthetic pyrethroid deltamethrin as an active ingredient. It is for the control of ectoparasitic infestations in cattle and sheep caused by ticks, lice, flies, mites, midges and keds.

I dare yah to say something Intelligent; amaze the masses.

Neobartly subject HMMM BUTOX as a subject????

"Beeferer you must be one of GM/uaw high and mighty workers,It is all me me me or are you one of the people i seen at a local bar who worked for gm and were crying about having to go back to work??????" I am not really sure what it is you are trying to convey here- you use a lot of letter combinations that are not indigenous to the English language. You project an image of yourself as being an uneducated child who gets his information from colonoscopy images. Grow up!

Lots of issues from butox to crybabies so to all the gm'ers and the people who blog in support of them tell them to take the job and get on with there life or QUIT. No more i can't leave becouse i have a family, move and take the job.

Stay on subject context woooo. Your showing your true colors. Or are you so goofed-up that you cannot even see your a part of the future of Janesvilles problems?

Neobartly you'r head removed from butox, sounds like you have a head for the bottome end of things LOL.

Some very smart blogs. I commend those who stay in context.
What cha hear in bars, is gosple truths? LOL. The uninformed once again blab foolishly. The open minded remain with hope. The progressives sport possible futures for the area. The economists rave on about who gets what and for how long, also no one is crying.
It is a shame that the overall plite of so many lives can draw such mean spirited forces. Even now, after almost two years of concluding business at GM Janesville, their is still this uncontested illness against anything GM?
I seriously would not bring a manufacturing facility to this town based upon the likes of those whom demonstrait their bias towards industry. That is a shame too. Lord knows the area could use support and new industry now.
I guess the bashers just have not felt the decline yet from GM-er's parting ways with the community. It should start showing financially very soon. (Key Note: Watch the Empty Spaces in the Mall begin to form.)
Good luck on your decision making people. I do know hundreds that are college educated, and took the job OFFER to work at GM because of the regular reasons ANYONE would have taken it. Benefits, family support, to gain the American dream. It is fool hardy to believe all the litteral crap you read by many of the bloggers here, as they have never heard that POPPING sound; {head being removed from butox}. If your interests are valid, and you would like to know the real facts, their are people that you can ask. Avoid the blogs for information. Majorily only sickness and illness roam these blogs. I come in to bare wittness to the present state of the so-called common man. Kind of ugly, isn't it?

Beeferer you must be one of GM/uaw high and mighty workers,It is all me me me or are you one of the people i seen at a local bar who worked for gm and were crying about having to go back to work??????

i love it when the jealous people call us cry babies. we aren't being "cry babies" at all. Just informing the jealous and none GM'rs of the correct info. as for the person who asked if GM in Janesville open by 2012...... maybe maybe not. depends on the economy. yes there are things in the works. and as BillDurant stated, it would not take that long to fire this plant up as long as its a body on frame product ( truck or SUV). Spring Hill is the other stand by and is geared toward unibody (Cars). The reason all the production workers from Janesville were transferred i believe is because if Janesville IS re opened, it will be the first true 2 tier plant.
by the way, i did work at Janesville for 20 plus years. i am now in Ft Wayne working here. yes it was my families choice. i live apart from my family for two weeks at a time. there was no choice in the matter as we know Rock county was named by Forbes magazine as one of the 10 worst places to find a job. i was lucky and feel blessed for this opportunity. do i wish to come back to Janesville? you bet, i was born and raised there. but as of now, this was the only choice and am not sorry or crying i did it.

wooooo- You sure make a lot of references to "GM crybabies". I haven't seen any. The only "crybabies" or complainers are a very few of the non-GMers- especially yourself.

More GM crybabies posting what a joke, Take the job or quit and try to make the big money.
O that's right most company's do not have the mighty UAW.

John Wayne it is your fault you went on to college instead of working for GM, so quit acting like a crybaby cause you dont make as much waaa

JohnWayne- The U.A.W. upheld the contract with L.S.I and Lear. Union members were not treated like "second class trash"- perhaps you could enlighten us on the difference between first class trash and second class trash. You apparently are an authority on such matters. As far as misrepresentation by the union, please cite examples, if you can. You wrote "I have a four year college degree and do not make as much money as they do, nor have the "perks" that they do." Um, alot, companys, appauled, blatent, crybabys, & privilage are not even words. So if I were you, I'd be "appalled" at the college for "blatantly" taking your money and misrepresenting themselves as a legitimate educational institution. You didn't get your money's worth as evidenced by your 4th grade level spelling. I crammed 4 years worth of college into 3 years and moved up in the company. I am putting all of my kids through college now. I have told them in the past that when they have a goal in life, "The only one holding you back is YOU". I sincerely wish I could have been there to tell you that years ago. Perhaps at this point in time you would not be so bitter at the way your life turned out. Oh and the cost of labor in a vehicle's sticker price typically amounts to less than 5% of the cost. Think about it.

yep it would take awhile to re tool but gm does own this plant and I believe it is being used for some kind of collateral for the government.. so it does have a chance of re opening with all the workers being the second tier variety but I would think they would annouce it pretty soon.

JohnWayne- The only plants GM has on standby are Janesville and Spring Hill. That's it. It would not take Janesville that long to tool up....at least for trucks. Only time it would need would be to install the body shop tooling. Flex line for cars....yes, probably 10 months. Orchid in Monroe is producing electric motor components...not a battery. As for the crybabies you mention, every employer with the amount of employees General Motors has, there are going to be bad apples....whether that be GM, Apple, McDonald's, teachers, real estate agents, doctors, etc etc.

J W. GOOD POST.

Thank God that this is the last of them. Let them take their whiny-hinies to Ohio. You notice that they have to be bribed to go back to work? No wonder so many people buy foreign cars. ;-)

Its a no-brainer. Either take it-or not. Take it and move on with your life to Ohio or remain in Wisconsin.

Why on earth would the Union office be closed on Friday with this strict deadline imposed?

waaaaaaaaaa i have to go to work now????? i just cant site and collect my money any more.How dare they do that to a MIGHTY UAW worker, that is what i heard from several GM'ers this week at a bar in janesville.

One person told me GM was putting too much pressure on them to make such a quick decision. WRONG. Pressure to me is when those pilots had to land that jet in the Hudson river loaded with passengers....

packattack
May 22, 2010 at 8:15 a.m.
Suggest removal " A $6,000 signing bonus to help cover upfront expenses after a transfer is granted. When the worker arrives in the new community, he or she will be paid an additional $16,000. Another $8,000 is available if the worker stays at the new location for one year.

-- A flat rate of $4,800."
"Anyone out there still confused on why there is so many "GM Bashers" out there?"

yes I am confused. why wouldn't you want to try and work for a company that offers those kinds of benefits?? i think most of the bashing is jealousy and envy rather than hate.

" A $6,000 signing bonus to help cover upfront expenses after a transfer is granted. When the worker arrives in the new community, he or she will be paid an additional $16,000. Another $8,000 is available if the worker stays at the new location for one year.

-- A flat rate of $4,800."
"Anyone out there still confused on why there is so many "GM Bashers" out there?"

nice the_one

Displacedworker, and publicvoice.

Man you guys are so right! I just can't believe how the UAW sleeps after the way they have treated you guys. I feel for each and everyone of you who.

I mean think about it how can you survive with the last two years off to sit home with only 90% of your pay and benefits and the ability to transfer to another GM when an opening is available.

Anyone out there still confused on why there is so many "GM Bashers" out there?

After reading the local 95 website, I wonder why the international uaw is only trying to protect the people with close to 30 years senioriy and not all the janesville GM employees being forced to move to ohio? You cant go to bat for only part of the membership and not all of the membership.

I'm surprised it took SO long to get this information out to the membership. Once the higher seniority workers were affected, then the details finally come out. What about the people that were affected by this weeks ago when no information was available?? They had to do the homework themselves.

Um, in 2011 the current contract expires. Skilled trades employees did not get forced. They are waiting in the wings for something to happen related to the electric motor production in Monroe. Also in 2012 the Arlington production run for the current model Suburban is done. Here's a rumor for you: Janesville may be picked for the electric SUVs planned utilizing the motors from Monroe. By then GM may be using 2nd tier workers for 1/2 the wages, limited benefits and no pension. Tier II wage progressions are:
26 weeks: $15.06
52 weeks: $15.46
78 Weeks: $15.87
104 weeks: $16.28

Jemery please give up the ghost!

With so many references to the Janesville plant it makes you wonder what GM has up their sleeves. Why such a big deal with seniority if there was zero chance on this plant opening again? I know this plant is a dinosaur but all the wording suggests that something may be in the works, probably after 2012 when the current contract expires.

We already know this. It is good.